The Eric Metaxas Show - Matt Whitaker

Episode Date: May 13, 2020

Matt Whitaker, former acting U.S. Attorney General under President Trump, has the inside scoop on what happened to get the ball rolling on the General Flynn investigation -- and what's on tap going forward.

Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. It's the show featuring GoGo the Chim. Nothing like a chimp till I'm in a radio show. Easy there, Go-Go. Go-Go. No. No, go-go. No.

Now your host, Eric Mataxis. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. I'm here with my crew, my posse, Albin, and Chris. Hello. Hello, Eric and America. I don't believe that a posse or a crew really can have people like Albin and Chris in it. It just doesn't seem right.

You need kind of some, you need, street names, but we don't have time right now. Okay, first of all, in this hour, I'm talking... I want corn pop too. Corn Pop 2, or son of corn pop, bride of corn pop. That's nasty person, gang stuff. Okay, so listen, we, in this hour, I am talking to the former acting secretary of state. Is that possible? No, that's not true. I'm talking to the former acting attorney. Attorney General of the United States, Matt Whitaker, the former acting attorney general. So in a few minutes, I'm talking to kind of an important person. But I also read that he was like the starting tight end for the Hawkeyes in the 1991 Rose Bowl,

although the information that his people sent me says the 2011 Rose Bowl, which means that he would be the youngest AG in the history of America. I think that's a typo. I think it's 1991. Okay, an hour two today, really special, Richard E. Simmons, the third. His book, I have to tell you, folks, it's called Reflections on the Existence of God. It is, it is spectacular. I, um, anyway, you can listen to my conversation with him, but it's, it's wonderful. We need more books like this.

Um, tonight, Albin and Chris, you know about this, right? I'm going to be on Facebook. Yes. Live tonight. 7 p.m. with Adam Carolla. Did he, is it Adam Carolla or Crayola? That's Corolla.

You sure? Yeah. I thought he was the guy that like his mother invented Crayola crayons or something. No, no. Maybe I'm getting up with Mike Nesmith, who's mother. He's not Taco Bell material. A very funny book. Yeah, not Taco Bell material.

All right. Well then, so tonight on Facebook Live, we'll put this out on our Facebook page, on the show's Facebook page. I'll put it out on Twitter, but I'm interviewing Adam Carolla and Dennis Prager, and there's some special comedian coming on, too. I don't know who else, but this is going to be live tonight.

I'm not going to wear my wig, so you're going to see what I really look like. It's just like appearing naked before my public. I'm going to take the wig off because, you know, I got to have it steam clean now and again, and I figure, why am I hiding the real me? So that's tonight at 7 p.m. Eastern time. and a couple of quick things, gosh, have you guys read the reports, the Angel Tree reports?

Most people know that this month we're doing a fundraiser for Angel Tree and for the kids of prisoners, right? Usually we do a fundraiser in May to send them to camp, to get them out of their urban environments to send them to camp. They're still going to be sent to camp if possible, but a lot of them won't be able to go to camp because of the coronavirus lunacy because they might get, you know, bitten by mosquitoes and that could be the end of the world and the government would lose control. So we need to keep them in lockdown. So in any event, we need to help these kids. And we just got the report from our friend in Dallas, Tom Trattop, who he's overseeing all the Salem shows. And we are so far behind. So I thought maybe if I applied guilt to my audience, guilt is a tremendous motivator. And I thought I could do that. Or I could use the grace model where, uh,

And, you know, the more I thought about the grace model, I thought, no, we don't have time for that. Guilt. So the bottom line is that my friend and hero, Chuck Colson, he went to prison for a Watergate-related offense. And when he got out of prison, he felt God leading him. This is in my book, Seven Men, the first book, Seven Men. I tell the story of Chuck getting out of prison and essentially having a vision from God, I think actually having a vision where he knew he had to go back. He had to spend the rest of his life caring about those whom society had forgotten.

And so he started something called prison fellowship. I had the privilege for working for him and prison fellowship. and the more you understand what the Bible says about the prisoners, you know, it's a mark of a society how we care for our prisoners. And the children of prisoners, if you care about your culture, if you don't care at all about the prisoners, you just care about, I want to live in a good culture, the greatest investment you could ever make is in the children of prisoners

because the likelihood that they will have lives of crime is unfortunately extremely high, as you can imagine. And one way to change that is to reach out to them with the love of Jesus, to reach out with them with the love of God who really does love them, but probably they haven't heard that or they're in an environment where the context would lead them to believe that maybe that's not the case. Well, it is the case. And so Angel Tree was started to help the kids and families of those who are incarcerated.

So we know that every Christmas they have this wonderful thing where they send presents and things from the mom and dad who are in jail. Well, this time of year we do a camp thing every year. And this year, tragically, as I said, a lot of these kids won't be able to go to camps, even if we raise the money. So we're raising the money for those who might be able to go to camp because we're still trying to work that out. And this summer, I should say it is likely that some will be able to. But we are doing a fundraiser for these kids so that even if they can't go to camp, they get a care package. To pay for one care package, it's $200 for one care package.

So if you can't do that, obviously anything you do goes toward a care package. And by the way, you have to go to metaxis talk.com. But Tom Tratop was leaning on us and saying, what's wrong with your show? Why aren't you guys doing as well as the other shows on Salem? That's right. You gave us one of these. And then he kind of tried to make us feel guilty. And you know what?

It worked. And so I thought, I want to pass that guilt on to my listeners. So basically, I joke around, but I believe in Angel Tree. I believe in Prison Fellowship, the way I believed in Chuck Colson. These are heroic people. They're doing God's work. And if you care about a culture, the church always needs to step up. Now, if you're not a Christian, you get this anyway.

But I'm speaking specifically, if you're a Christian, you kind of understand that we're supposed to, you know, we talk about we don't want high taxes. Well, that's because we believe the private sector can do what needs to be done. But this is an example of an opportunity where we in the private sector, everybody gives a little bit. Everybody gives according to what they can give. So there are plenty of people I know who can afford the $200 that Prison Fellowship is asking for one of these packages to these kids. But if you can't, maybe you can only give 1,000 or perhaps only 5,000 or 10,000. That's fine too. But if you can't give any of those numbers, whatever you give, we want to encourage you.

Go to Metaxis talk.com and participate. We really do need your help. These kids need your help. You can just imagine what it would be for a kid whose mom or dad is in prison to get this from AngelTree, a package with $150 worth of grocery coupons, or not coupons. It's a grocery card, right? You can go to the grocery store and you can buy food. and groceries, but also a piece of sports equipment, like a soccer ball, or they get to pick it.

And then a Bible, an age-appropriate Bible for teens or whatever the age is, and a note of encouragement and some Bible study materials. This is really, you can just imagine a kid living in a not great place getting a package like this. Maybe it's not as good as going to camp, but I'll tell you what, it would be pretty wonderful for that family. So I want to lean on you and ask you, please go to Metaxus Talk.com. There are folks out there I know who can give a significant amount.

And unfortunately, I'm talking to you specifically now. We need your help. We need your help because Prison Fellowship and Angel Tree literally can't do what they do without help. So we want to ask you to please go to Metaxistalkis.com. Give us generously as you can. One package pays for, I'm sorry, $200. pays for one package. Obviously, we want to, you know, encourage you.

So anybody who gives $200, you get a signed copy of my new book, Seven More Men. I just happen to have a copy right here in my sinuses. And then everybody is signed up to win the grand prize. So whatever you give. Andtaxistock.com. We'll be back with Matt Whitaker. I can't believe.

How do we get him? Well, I try to make it Sunday. Hey, folks, it's here from Taxis Show. Welcome back. As promised, I have, as my guest for this hour, Matt Whitaker. Matt Whitaker, welcome. I'm so glad to be with you, Eric. I don't normally interview people who have acted as Attorney General of the United States consciously.

I think, you know, a lot of people just do it without realizing. But you actually were the former, I mean, you, you are. the former acting attorney general of the United States. That's an extraordinary thing. I know you're a young man because I also know that you were the starting tight end for the Hawkeyes in the 2011 Rose Bowl. I'm not that young. It was actually the 1991 is 20 years before that.

Can I tell you something? That makes me feel a lot better about myself because it means that you're not as young. I thought this is not possible. Right. That would be an incredible. career if I could do that all. I was going to say that just doesn't make any sense. Thank God. Thank the Lord. I feel so much better about myself. But listen, I've seen you, you know, commenting on TV, on current events. I want to get into current events with you. I want to talk

about the General Flynn situation. But I do know that you have a book out called Above the Law. And we can talk about that as well. But let me ask you. if I could, what do you make of where we are now? The situation with General Flynn, I was literally seated next to him on the day of the inauguration. I had the privilege of being at the church service, the morning of the inauguration, before the inauguration.

And I was sitting next to him, and I was so excited for him and for the administration. And when I think what was going on that minute, what was already going on, plotting against him. It grieves me as an American, and it actually horrifies me as an American, and I wish it weren't true. So what is your take on where we are, what happened, and where we go from here? Because this is unprecedented in our republic. It's absolutely unprecedented, this kind of abuse of power, if it is what it seems to be. Yeah, and one of the themes that I talk about in my book is

making sure that this never happens to another American president, candidate for president, or an American citizen. I mean, and specifically what we're learning, and this is like just in the last week or a couple of weeks is that, you know, there was a meeting at the White House on January 5th of 2016 with Obama, Biden, and several other advisors, including James Comey, Susan Rice, and others. And Susan Rice wrote this kind of what I would call CYA email. as her last act in the role of national security virus for Obama,

essentially saying, and I think this is the theory that that propelled this entire Russian collusion investigation forward, that people like Flynn and Trump weren't taking the risks of Russia seriously enough, and they were putting too much emphasis on the threats that China poses. And while those of us that are sort of, you know, I mean, woke to this issue, know that China is the biggest threat in the coming century. And Russia is a dying superpower, former superpower. I think, you know, again, the national security apparatus of Obama just couldn't accept

that worldview. And so they believed that Trump, that General Flynn, both patriots, mind you, were Russian assets because of their differing worldview. And then they launched this investigation leading up to and then for two plus years. So wait. So you're giving them credit for actually believing this and not simply manufacturing this? Well, that's, I mean, we're going to find out more. I actually believed that the fundamental belief was that they thought Russia was a bigger threat than China because they were cozy with China.

Many of them had relationships with the Chinese, and they could not understand why Trump and why Trump and why his people in his administration felt that China was a bigger threat. Now, do I, you know, did they honestly believe that? Is it where they deeply held beliefs? I don't know. It is awfully convenient that those beliefs also led to the tapping of Carter Page, what ultimately became the Mueller investigation, and what ultimately yielded zero evidence. of any connections between anyone on Trump's campaign and the Russian government. Well, I guess, well, there's a couple things here. The way you've just put it, in other words, if they firmly or earnestly believe these things,

it doesn't make what they did any less wrong exactly. Correct. But it changes the context. It's not pure wickedness. It's wickedness with some caveats. But I get the impression that they were, that they wanted to take down the president and they were looking casting about for any reasonable way to accomplish it, rather than actually wanting to take him down because they believed he would enact policies that would harm the country.

On the day of the inauguration, when you were sitting at the National Cathedral with General Flynn, what they knew was that they currently had no evidence of any relationship between the Trump campaign and the Russians. But they also knew that they were going to close the investigation of the FBI into the, into any kind of foreign interference, at least as it released to the relationship. That being said, they used General Flynn as the reason to continue that investigation. and ultimately that metastasized and there's no better word that I can think of into what became the feverish two-plus-year Russian collusion investigation that again was destructive not only to our country that hamstrung this president from fully implementing his agenda but you know again ultimately was proven to be baseless in fact

And that's what I think is just the most shocking thing. There were so many opportunities for someone with good judgment and solid decision-making to say, you either bring me some evidence or we're not going to continue this investigation. And that could have been, you know, there were people all along this route of the investigation that could have made that decision and ultimately they didn't. I will tell you by the time that I took over the Mueller investigation in November of 2018 after the election, the report was we have found no evidence of a relationship between the Trump campaign and the Russian government. We are writing our final report, and you should expect that shortly. And that, you know, for the time I was acting attorney general, that's where I sat.

And I remember giving a press conference in January of 2019 talking about how I expected the investigation to be over soon. Everybody lost their mind. If you remember that moment in time, it was like, you know, I had dropped off from a foreign planet and said something that was so inconsistent with what they believe. Because, again, this was in their hopes and beliefs, especially the left wing media, believe this was going to deliver the president. It was going to deliver people like Jared Kushner. and others to, you know, sort of to whatever justice outcome that these people fantasized about. And really, it was an effort to subvert the President of the United States. Well, I mean, again, it's one thing to have differences, and that's what makes America.

America, it's actually a beautiful thing. But it seems to me that what happened, that what makes what happened unprecedented, is this idea that you have people. And I hate when words become cliches. We talk about weaponizing. There had to be a word we used before we coined weaponized about two years ago. But to have the president of the United States using the apparatus of government to crush people, it just chills me as an American. It says un-American as anything.

We know that Richard Nixon did this, trying to hurt people like my friend Dick Havitt. He would find his enemies and try to hurt them. It's really vile when anyone does that. But when a president of the United States does it. But it seems to me that what this president did with his advisors is something has to happen, I guess. I'm just wondering, what you suppose might happen? Is it as ugly as I see it? Or, you know, did they really believe they were saving America?

I don't know the answer to that. We're just, again, some of this is just being revealed. And, you know, what I do know that every single one of the president's advisors that were brought into the House Intelligence Committee and were interviewed that we've now seen the transcripts said under oath that they had no evidence. that there was a relationship between the Russian government and the Trump campaign. Now, that's not what they were saying on TV. And I just, you know, I just saw a recent montage of all the people that were against the president that, you know, kind of fueled the fire of this. But, you know, fundamentally, I think, you know, I don't, I don't think there's any reason you can't use a term weaponized because that's exactly what they did. No, no, it is, it is the right term.

It's just, just as a former English major and as a writer, I get annoyed when people get that words and then everybody begins. to use that word over and over and over. But we're going to be right back, folks. I'm talking to Matt Whitaker. The new book is above the law. We'll be right back. From giving take and still somehow, it's love to you. Christian bestselling author and speaker Richard E. Simmons does not shy away from the big

questions of life. His latest book is called Reflections on the Existence of God, and it tackles the biggest question of all, does God exist? I've read this book and I've got to tell you. I'm a little biased, but you can imagine that I like it a lot because Simmons offers insights for those grappling with life's biggest questions. Where do we find meaning in life? Who determines what is evil? Can we be moral without God? Does God even exist? Former White House aide Wallace Henley says, I've taught apologetics for many years and I've read every

scholar mentioned in this book. Of all the books on apologetics, Simmons is the best I have ever read. This book is easy to read because it's divided into a series of brief essays, perfect for a devotional or discussion with a friend. I highly recommend that you add a copy of reflections on the existence of God to your pandemic reading list. Simmons asked questions that speak directly to one of the most important things you possess your worldview. Folks, you know how important this is to me. Your worldview is going to impact the way you live your life for better or for worse. If you want to challenge yourself to spiritual and intellectual growth, and I hope you do, then be willing to ask yourself, life's toughest questions.

Dive in today by picking up a copy of reflections on the existence of God right now. Go to existence of godbook.com. That's existence of Godbook.com. Folks, welcome back. It's the Earthman, Texas show. I am talking to Matt Whitaker, former acting attorney general of the United States and former starting tight end for the 1991, for the Hawkeyes in the 1991 Rose Bowl. I don't know, Matt, which is more impressive.

of those two honors. But, you know, we'll just, we'll leave that to God to judge. But let me just ask you, because I just try to kind of get the context, right? It seems to me that a lot of people hate this president for all kinds of reasons. And they simply determined that they wanted to take him down. Now, people have every right to play politics and to use political power. But, you know, the title of your book, Above the Law, I mean, For people to do what it seems they did in this case, I assume, and we're going to hear from the Durham investigation,

I assume that some of it rises to the level of criminality. Are you willing to talk about that, what your guess is on that? Yeah, so I'm watching the, I know John Durham well, and I've been watching his investigation. I work with John on another classified investigation on a leak situation. And I found him to be very detail-oriented, very willing and very dogged to get to the bottom of whatever the facts and evidence showed. So I know that he is going to be thorough and exhaustive in his investigation. And I don't know what he's finding. And that's probably the most frustrating thing.

for me as I look back is, you know, a lot of this was siloed in the Mueller investigation, and they were able to sort of say what they wanted the supervisors to hear because, and, you know, again, this is something I talk about, because of the way the special counsel statute is, or actually it's a regulation at DOJ, because of the way the special counsel regulation is written, it doesn't provide as much oversight as is necessary. And I think ultimately it's unconstitutional. And I hope that we can do what what general bar is doing and that is this fine people within the department of justice that are in the chain of command that are accountable to the president and the executive branch and ultimately do investigations that way even when they're very sensitive and go

into sort of this you know the you know even you know if the president is a target and that's you know that's the other thing that is so disappointing eric that i just i cannot imagine a set of facts that where people's judgment and decision making was so poor. And that's why we have to look at their motivations. And when Andy McCabe, when Jim Comey was fired, Andy McCabe almost immediately made the president the target of a criminal investigation, which is what triggered the appointment of Mueller. But that decision appears to be completely unprudicated with no evidence. They never found any evidence.

So there couldn't have been any evidence to put him at any predication to put him as a targeting the investigation. And so I just, I look at that kind of judgment and decision making. And I just, it, you have to then go in question their motivations. Well,

it doesn't, it doesn't look good. Sometimes people drunk with power, you know, they do things. They're drunk. They don't understand what they're doing because they're so sure that they,

that they're acting, you know, Hitler didn't think he was a bad guy, in case anybody, wondering. He was pretty sure that he was on the right side of all the issues. And so Well, and Chamberlain thought he was a good guy too and thought he somebody could work with. Yeah. Well, I've heard that. I've heard that. And I will be able to work more closely with Putin after the election when we get that nailed down. Let me just say that honestly,

this is so ugly as an American who has only in the latter years begun to understand how things work, what American style self-government and liberty really is. is it's increasingly chilling to me to think that people would be so high-handed as those in the Obama administration seem to have been. And the president himself, I mean, the idea that he was in the room and that he knew that they were going to go after Flynn, how can I possibly see that as anything other than an abuse of power? I mean, is there any way that we can possibly frame this? I mean, there are many never-Trumpers out there who don't seem to be speaking up. And I want to know, what do they think? Do they think that this was legitimate on any level?

Is it possible? Well, Eric, we're in a hyper-partisan, us versus them, red versus blue world. And it's unrecognizable unless you know history like you do. And you look back to the 1800s, especially the late 1800s, where it was very partisan. And, you know, President Johnson, for example, was impeached on purely partisan. and grounds. And the media was divided. There were the Republican papers and there were, you know, essentially what became the Democrat Party papers. And so, and I think that's, I think that's the natural, I think our Constitution almost demands that, unfortunately. We had a golden era where the press,

you know, sort of had this special place where they were the arbiter of what was true. That's no longer the case. Forgive me, I didn't realize we're going to a hard break. We'll be right back. Folks, I'm talking to Matt Whitaker. We'll be right back. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Matt Whitaker. You may know him as the starting tight end for the Hawkeyes in the 1991 Rose Bowl, or you may know him as the former acting Attorney General of the United States. I know him as the author of a new book called Above the Law. Matt, welcome back. I want to talk to you about everything. We don't have a ton of time, but where do you see this going right now? The recent revelations with regard to Flynn, with regard to people in the room at the time who were making these kinds of decisions. It just, it doesn't look good for America. The only thing worse would be if we had not discovered this. It's kind of like with Watergate when people said, well, at least the system works.

Do you think the system will work here? Do you think that justice will be done as far as the American people are concerned? I do. I think it has to be. I think the system and the American people demand accountability and transparency. I want to go back to something we were talking about earlier, which I think is so important, as you talked about the President Obama in that meeting, knowing about the investigation in Flynn and the characters that were in the room, including the FBI director.

And, you know, remember, my understanding of that meeting is Obama turned to Jim Comey and the FBI director and said, keep me updated. Now, this is two weeks before they go out of office, but he wanted to continue to be updated on the general Flynn investigation. And so, I mean, that that suggests to me that, again, I think the motivations are going to be very important. We're going to, you know, be told and it's going to be repeated by complicit left-wing media on many of the outlets that, you know, the intentions and the motives were pure, et cetera, et cetera. But I don't think at the end of the day, history is going to reflect very well on this period of time and what, you know, what ultimately the national security apparatus of the Obama administration did. did not only to General Flynn, but ultimately President Trump.

Well, and of course, let's remember the main crime is against the American people. I mean, Trump is someone we hired, we chose. He wasn't chosen by his base. He was chosen by America. We had an election in America. And we, the American people, chose him. And so this is a coup against the American people more than it's a coup against Trump. And he said that, you know, they hate me because they hate you.

I think that's what's chilling to me is that we have government big enough and sophisticated enough to be able to work in a way that subverts the will of the American people. You know, that's the only real crime if there's any crime. And that's as big a crime as it gets. That's the crime of tyranny. It's the crime of treason. I mean, I don't know where that is in the statute books, but it's pretty bad. Yeah, and I know, listen, the Obama administration were a lot of academic, sophisticates, East Coast. elites, you know, coastal elites, if you will. And, you know, they knew that if they could hamstring the

Trump administration from the start, that many of these Obama-era policies maybe wouldn't be unwound or undone as quickly, and that they could somehow kneecap President Trump and his administration that maybe, you know, we could, you know, he wouldn't accomplish much in the four years and because of all this noise and, you know, allegations. of Russian interference and Russian collusion would ultimately hurt the president, but they didn't know who they were dealing with. I know President Trump well.

I worked with him very closely and know kind of how he sees the world. And I mean, he is willing to fight. And every day he gets up and he is ready to battle anybody that wants to battle him because he knows that he is representing the American people and trying to accomplish their agenda. And that's, you know, it's admirable.

I think any, there are, having studied the presidency and read a lot of about presidents like I have, and I know you have too, Eric. I just, you know, I can't imagine many presidents weathering the storm that he has weathered. I can't imagine any of them. I mean, I have to say he seems to be superhuman. He seems to be created by God for this hour. I've never seen anything quite like it. He doesn't seem to sleep much. He doesn't seem to get tired.

He seems to be born to fight, which is funny because everybody's different. But he's not the kind of person that we've seen in the Oval Office. And I wish he'd been there from 1980 on. We wouldn't have some problems that we have with China and with it. But he's very scrappy. But I think one of the things that a lot of the people who support him feel, and I want to ask you about this, is he does seem to love. of America. And I think that that's dispositive to use a legal term. I mean, it means, it means a lot

when you, when you get a sense that someone loves their country. They're not just, you know, the head of the executive branch. It's bigger than that. Yeah, I totally agree. I think he is a patriot in the truest sense of that word. And I also think that, you know, his intentions are to make sure that America competes and wins. And, you know, I know that that sometimes in the, you know, world globalist mindset, that sort of America being number one and America being everything and being great is offensive or otherwise doesn't comport to their sort of way that they think we should assemble ourselves in kind of a United Nations kind of world.

But, you know, this president understands that, I mean, China is trying to be the greatest. Other countries are trying to maximize their leverage and their position in the world. And I think, you know, it would be a shame if we don't even answer the bell and compete. Because, you know, what China has done is they've stolen our technology to compete. You know, they are, they are, you know, taking advantage of every opportunity they can to reposition themselves. And I think a lot of Americans don't understand that things like the dollar being reserved currency, and being the stability of the whole monetary system worldwide is meaningful. It has brought a lot of wealth and opportunity to Americans.

And those are the kind of things that the Chinese want to take away from us. Well, this is kind of an old story, right? The liberals tend not to understand evil. They tend to play patty cake with dictators. They can't seem to, they don't seem to have the imagination. to comprehend that someone could be that different from the way they are, let's say. And I think that, you know, the ultimate indictment of the globalist worldview is what is what is happening right now with China.

I mean, you know, Clinton and George W. Bush really told us to trust them or to, you know, to just keep going along and we're going to bring them, you know, into the community of nations and they're going to get capitalism and the next thing you know, they're going to be like us. It didn't turn out the way. We're going to be right back. Final segment with Matt Whitaker. Don't go away. Big folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Matt Whitaker. There's a football behind him. I don't know why. Matt, did you ever playing the Rose Bowl? I'm just wondering. Yeah, I did. I was, you know, that's how I paid for school. I got my undergrad in three and a half years and was my

senior football. I was in law school. And I also got my MBA just a boot. So, so, why not? Why not? Why not? Well, let me just ask you. I was just ranting at the end of the last segment about this globalist mindset. The globalist mindset wouldn't be bad if there weren't evil in the world. It wouldn't be bad if you didn't have to die for freedom. But we know that there's a cost to be paid, that we have to be vigilant warriors for freedom because we live in a world that has fallen and where people like the heads of the Chinese Communist Party, they don't want freedom. They want power.

And it seems to me that that's the ultimate indictment of the deep state and of the cultural elites who've populated Washington. And this president rather stunningly intuitively gets this issue and has gone to war against the global elites in our own government. And it's why they've attacked him as they have, because they, they pretty much had this put away. And he came in in the last quarter. And, you know, he's causing him a lot of trouble. He is. And it also, it boils down to, you know, I mean, there's demographic changes going on in our country. But there's also what I would describe as lifestyle differences. You know, where I'm from, Des Moines, Iowa, you know, it's a very agricultural-based society. It's a very,

you know, you can get land and you can kind of be left alone and, you know, all the kind of thing. But, you know, so people that live in high-rise apartments don't understand what that is. They're used to going to a park to walk their dog and having all their services deliver their door. So it's just it's an entirely, you know, the experience of many Americans is so different from especially the coastal elites that I just, you know, I hope that there will be a time where there's a unification. But, you know, I watched somebody like Joe Biden and I get so far. frustrated because he and people like him just don't understand entrepreneurs, don't understand small business owners, don't understand why we have to reopen this country, you know, and make, you know, reasonable choices as we head out of this, you know, pandemic. But, you know, it's just,

it's, there's just a disconnect. And ultimately, you know, real America is going to win because that's what the heart and soul and the foundation of everything we believe. Well, I, I agree with you. And of course, it is a battle. It's not something that we win unless we answer the bell, as you put it earlier. It really does seem to me, we've just got about a minute left, but I get deeply grieved when people that I looked up to in the past, President Bush, for example, when I realized that they were asleep at the wheel with regard to China and with regard to the larger globalist agenda of many people in D.C., they seem to think we can just continue along these lines. And at some point, and that point has come, you have to see the enemy and you have to fight. And this president seems to be doing that.

Yeah. Well, you're right. And I just, well, we have one minute. I just want to say, what a big fan of yours I am and how much I enjoyed your book on Luther, especially, but also on Baumhofer. So please keep turning out those kind of books. I will be one of your readers. Holy cow. I got to know, you know what?

This is the most important question I can ask in any interview. Which of those books did you prefer? I love the Luther book. I'm a Lutheran, and so I just, I thought it was exceptional. Honestly, you can't imagine what it means to me that you, of all people, would have read my books. I feel honored by that. Thrilled and honored to have your time. Good luck with the book above the law.

I hope we can get you back on here, and I hope to meet you in person after the pandemic. I look forward to it. Well, God bless you. Thanks for being my guest. Thanks, Eric.