The Eric Metaxas Show - Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis

Episode Date: April 13, 2022

Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Jenna Ellis, who both worked as co-counsel for President Trump, cover the subject no journalists have the courage to cover: the stolen election of 2020.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m.investments.com. The Texas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Folks, welcome to the program. I have the joy of having my friend Jenna Ellis on the program and her colleague, Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

Jenna and Mayor Giuliani, welcome. I wanted to start the program before I know, Mayor, you have to go to deliver package. That's how we say to New York. I've got a package. You know, I've got to deliver some. A little evidence. Before you go, I just wanted to, I know you

because of Jenna. And so talk to me a little bit about how you came to meet each other and working for President Trump. Well, obviously, the mayor has known the president for so many years and decades, and their friendship is amazing. And obviously, I'd known about the mayor and his work for the president well before I started working for Donald Trump. And really, it was the post-election that we became friends and colleagues. And the president, of course, put Mayor Giuliani as the head of the legal team. And he has been

so kind. I think the best compliment of my entire legal career is the fact that the mayor has called me his co-counsel. because in the world of law is a big deal. Which was a decision that I made with the president. The president has a very high regard for Janet. And so this has happened very fast. It was a day after the election. He was very upset because there was so little lack of preparation for this by a legal staff.

For this deal? Yeah. By the way, we're not allowed to say that the election was stolen on this program. Actually, my producer says, go ahead. So the election was stolen. We know that. Sure. So nobody's going to come, we don't have any troopers.

It's really, it's how funny you all know one way. How funny that in the United States of America, we even have to wonder, can I say that? We can say what, this is called a free country. People died so that we can speak freely. So if I say the election is stolen, the only thing that can happen, I'll get disbarred. And that's right. They'll take away my right to practice law. They have come after you.

So all, after 50 years of practicing law, without a single allegation, of ever having done anything wrong, which is rare, given the kind of cases I handled, which are all controversial, all of a sudden, in the last year or two of my law practice, I've become dishonest and a crook because I disagree with them. Is it possible that they have the ones that are wrong?

Unfortunately, it's not only possible. Remember how the McCarthy and have become fascist? Because, I mean, they've broken every rule that they have, They're bringing their complaints based on hearsay. They've never interviewed anybody. They say stupid. They ask you stupid things like, how could you say that? You show them five affidavits of people who said it.

And then they put the affidavits aside. And they're coming after not only the mayor's bar license, my bar license, but about 110 of our other colleagues who worked for the president simply because we had the audacity in America to think. that a sitting president of the United States deserves legal counsel. So this is so extraordinary. I know we only have the mayor for a few minutes,

and Jenna, we can follow up, but where do you think this goes? In other words, you're in the fight. There are a number of people in the fight. I think Americans are slowly waking up to what's happening. They've destroyed, they have effectively already destroyed some of the most important

principles on which I was trained as a lawyer. The attorney client privilege. They've broken into my life. law office. They broke into three or four other lawyers' offices. Who did? The FBI. When I was, when I was an assistant, U.S. Attorney, U.S. Attorney handled some of the most sensitive cases, I remember a very distinct choice about breaking into a lawyer's office. Did we have probable cause to do it? I'll tell you what, I could have taped a commission meeting. I didn't do it because I had enough evidence and I didn't want to, I didn't want to jeopardize my case by doing something

so horrible as breaking into a lawyer's office. Even if you have justification for it, it creates a chilling effect on legitimate lawyers or you're a client, you want to say something sensitive to your lawyer. I should be able to say to you, nobody will ever hear this, except they remember that Giuliani broke into a law office and was able, now they remember, oh, well, you could break into Giuliani's office, you can break into this office. And by the way, what, what they have in common, they all represent Trump. Right. Well, this is the unraveling of what I like to call America. In other words, once these unprecedented things happen and they break into your law,

the FBI says it, in other words, we're losing all of these, in a sense, the barriers that the founders deliberately set up to keep us safe and free, one by one, they're tearing them down. In other words, to broach that and to break into your law office, that's, as you just said, it sets a precedent. Yeah, and they had no real evidence of a crime. They've had it for two and a half years. And they are trying on purpose to tear down the institution of advocacy, of due process, of our Bill of Rights. They don't want to be bound by the rule of law. The only time that the Democrats ever refer to the Constitution is when they want to manipulate it,

and they want to pretend that they're on the side of the rule of law, but they will never actually advocate for it sincerely. It's a very, very dangerous time. They have, and they've desensitized the public. You take polls now and people think that free speech should be amended if somebody says something politically incorrect or too insulting or, I mean, that's very dangerous. It's exceedingly dangerous because then if you have a very strong point of view, and it's communist or socialist, then everything's set against it becomes improper.

You can't say it. It becomes criminal. Well, isn't this because we haven't taught civics for about 50 years in America? I mean, really since the 60s, every American kid, you shouldn't be able to get a high school diploma without knowing all this stuff. But we haven't been teaching this stuff.

They're more easily brainwashed. Obviously. Look at the discussion the judge had saying that the president's conversation with Professor Eastman could be breached, even though it's attorney-client privilege, because of the crime fraud exception. They could be committing a crime.

You have to explain for my audience who's Professor Eastman? You're not allowed to breach the attorney-client relationship, except if a lawyer and a client are committing a crime together. So if you come to me and you say to me, I want to defraud people of their insurance money, and I help you as the lawyer do it, I essentially become a criminal with you. I'm no longer a lawyer.

That isn't what was happening with Professor Eastman of the president. Professor Eastman was explaining to the president. He was his lawyer. He was explaining to the president. An interpretation of the Electoral Count Act of 1877, that it's unconstitutional. Samuel Tilden.

Which is supported by at least half, if not more than half of the law reviews that have written on it. supported by none other than Larry Tribe, who is a very left-wing Democrat who's been involved in these fights in the past. In other words, he was giving him a legitimate legal interpretation. And a legal theory. And to have these types of conversations are not only appropriate, but that's what lawyers do. We discuss a lot of legal theories. We discuss them with our clients. And suddenly, the left is forgetting any of their interpretation. They're forgetting any of the precedent that

was set. They're forgetting all of this because they do. just simply want to get Trump and any of his associates. And they want to create and manufacture this ridiculous conspiracy that supposedly we had while they're the ones who are the criminals. So they're effectively willing to burn it all down to get their way. If you yell loud enough at the corrupt media and you're on their side, the corrupt media takes up for you. So that's what they would say, the investigation of Biden has been debunked. Where? When? There is no investigation of Biden. Yet on February 1st, 2016, they raid the company. Obviously, there was an investigation. There's no debunking order. Nobody ever wrote out anything saying,

these are not true. Nobody's ever been investigated. How would they know if it's true? But they say these things. They get repeated, and the press just said it. So now they'll say it was a crime that nobody looks at it. What kind of crime? He's giving him an interpretation. I give you five law review articles that say that law. is unconstitutional. We've read them. It kills me that we have to say goodbye to you temporarily. Thank you for being with us. And before you go, though, I want to say to Eric, while you're here, I so respect and love you and it was the honor of my life to be able to be your co-counsel. Mutual. And we're eventually going to prevail. We'll keep fighting. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

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about 70% of the half a million people who've tried it and have ordered more. Go to Relieffactor.com or call 800 for relief to find out about this offer. Feel the difference. I'm back. Just a moment ago, I was sitting here with Jenna Ellis and Mayor Rudy Giuliani. And suddenly, Giuliani's gone. Where do you go? It's sad. Now you're just stuck with me. Now I'm stuck talking to you. I got nothing to say to you. I know. We never had anything to talk about. Fortunately, you're the guest. So as long as you have something to say to my audience.

Listen, you're very generous in introducing me to Mayor Giuliani. We spent the evening last night. And I am just actually astonished at how affable, kind, generous. I mean, you know, when you meet somebody who's that famous, you simply don't know what you will find. Yeah. And I am just really amazed at what a sweet, honest person he turns out to be. My gosh. I mean, I knew he was heroic.

I knew he was brilliant. I knew he was a fighter. But. Yeah. For someone who is a living legend, he makes time for people. And his whole family is like that. And so Andrew Giuliani, his son, who of course, is running for governor of the state of New York, was out with all of us last night. And when they introduced their new little girl, I finally got to meet her.

And he said, this is Auntie Jenna. And I just thought, how sweet, because they're my Italian family now. And so for the mayor and Andrew and his wife and their whole family, they have been so kind to me personally. Because we all went through something very, frankly, traumatic for ourselves, for the country, in representing. the president, but it was more than just a work experience. It was truly a forging of a lifelong friendship. And for somebody like Mayor Giuliani, who is someone throughout my entire legal career, I have respected so highly, for him to take the time through that whole entire process to truly mentor me and to give me respect that is usually earned over

the course of, you know, a decades-long collegial friendship was, to me, the greatest honor of my entire career. Well, you know, in yesterday's program with him, we didn't really even get into his successes, his career as a prosecutor, the third person in Ronald Reagan's Justice Department. I mean, this guy has a, you know, a record as a lawyer, as a prosecutor that's just amazing. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. So, yeah, the fact that you would get to work with him on something that is, oh, let's call it important, you know, whether the election of the United States president was stolen, was fraudulent. I mean. This was bigger than Watergate. And that's what people don't even yet understand as the truth continues to unfold. And, you know, I was subpoenaed by the January 6th committee. And as part of the subpoena for testimony, but also production, as part of the. of the production. The mayor yesterday and I was sitting here watching your interview is fantastic, and he talked about all of the documents that he has at his home that show that. I produced, of course,

with President Trump's knowledge, and, you know, he obviously, as the attorney, I produced over 9,000 pages of documents to the committee and said openly, there is no media outlet that can say ever that there was no evidence or no legal basis by which we brought. our challenges. Here, 9,000 pages that are now in the permanent congressional record. Do you know how many reporters contacted me about that story? Can I guess? Zero. And that was not a headline. That was not, they completely buried it. And they don't want to talk about my subpoena anymore because they don't want to talk about the fact that we had hundreds of witnesses, hundreds of pages of documents that no court was ever willing to look at on the merits.

simply because they said a candidate can't sue, which is insane. So that's the thing. So how many times have I heard in the last year and change? There's no evidence. The courts rejected, rejected. You lost 63 cases, which we didn't even bring 63. That is not true. But it's not true.

That they refuse to look at the evidence. And the question is, why do they refuse to look at the evidence? And I would say, and this is what I want you to talk about, it was, I mean, the unpleasant word is it was, cowardice. You need political will. You need vision. You need fire to go and look at these kinds of things. And they, it seems to me, just said, you know what? We don't want to be bothered. You need to not be political on the bench. And that's the problem because it doesn't matter that this was a Republican incumbent president or that his last name was Trump or that this dealt with a hugely significant constitutional issue or that it was messy. I mean,

None of those things matter. When you are a judge at any level, your obligation under the United States Constitution, under your oath of office, is that you will be impartial, you will be unbiased, and that you will make a rule according to the rule of law. And none of those judges that said, you don't have standing, we're not listening to this on the merits. None of them were willing to fulfill their oath of office. They should all be impeached. They were actually being political. Yes. And so was the Supreme Court.

Unfortunately, only Alito and Thomas. They were the only ones that said on the Texas versus Pennsylvania case where 19 attorneys general filed, and when it's a state versus another state under the Constitution, that's what constitutes what's called original jurisdiction, meaning the only proper forum for a trial court is the Supreme Court. They had no choice but to hear that case. Only Thomas and Alito said, yeah, we have no discretion over this. That's what the Constitution says. All three of President Trump's appointees did not want to appear political. So they were political. And that's what's so frustrating about the bench now is that instead of separating powers, as our founders in their wisdom, perceived was the only way to protect against corruption, was to separate powers and have an independent judiciary. They were not independent. They were fearful of the political tenor.

So basically, in a ridiculous overreaction to being seen as political, they were in fact political. Yes, and they chose to not have the heat of doing the right thing over and above, seating to the propaganda and the fake news media tenor and how they were going to spend this. And so in a word, it was cowardice. And the password is cowardice. It's an amazing thing, Jenna, because we're learning, I think any American who's paying it attention, we're learning a lot of things. We're learning, for example, how everything works and how

it doesn't work. What's broken? I mean, when you see, I guess what fascinates me, and this, you know, Pence comes into the conversation, some of these Supreme Court justices, in other words, there's a moment when they would have plausible deniability by not doing something. And so they say, so we're not going to do that thing. And on some level, you can see what their reasoning is. But real leadership, it strikes me, would have required them to say, nonetheless, we must do this. This was their moment in history. Imagine if the founders of our country had had had that same attitude, we would still be under an English king. Our entire scope of being the greatest form of government throughout world history would have never existed if the founders had the same

mindset as Mike Pence. So this is the question, like who's more of a tyrant, George the third, or the deep state? Absolutely the deep state. And that's what's so concerning. Because they're subtle tyrants. And they don't have this, but it's the same fundamental motivation. And it always is. And one of the things that I was telling you on our way over here this morning was one of the things that the mayor said to me when this was first starting and we were on the legal team and I had gotten a lot of hit pieces and scrutiny and everything as working for the president in the campaign. But this was going to be so much more monumental. And he said to me, Jenna, there are moments in your career and I've been through them. He said, where this is going to test

whether or not you are secure in who you are. And he said, but more than that, who you are in God. And he said that it's going to test whether or not you believe that God brought you here for this time. And I've never forgotten that because as wave upon wave of, you know, death threats and hit pieces and bar license suspension attempts and all of this that we've all been through working for President Trump and advocating for truth, I can honestly say as much as that has been terrible and traumatizing and ridiculously unconstitutional, I can honestly say I wouldn't do anything different because I can sit here and I can also talk to President Trump and look him in the face and say we did everything that we could and we're not done fighting. And we're not done fighting. That's the part that excites people who love freedom, that there is more and that this goes on. I had Patrick Byrne on the program last week, Mike Lindell. There are all kinds of people, Dinesh DeSuzza, who continue. to do what they can, to expose, to simply expose the truth of what happened. And I want this program to be a place where people can know we're going to try to get that information to you.

Because the media, obviously, including Fox, they've pretty much decided to do a blackout on this kind of information. They will not cover it. And people need to know there are people behind the scenes working, working, working, working, We'll be right back with one of them. Her name is Jenna Ellis. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Biden administration has caused a financial crisis and they have no clue how to fix it. Oil prices have skyrocketed. And when oil prices go up, the cost of transportation and shipping spikes, leading the prices of goods to rise. And when we're already seeing record inflation, that's the last thing we need. Our economy is in trouble and you need to take steps to protect yourself.

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Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to my friend Jenna Ellis, who is the host of the Jenna Ellis show on Salem. Salem. It's been great to join the family. Well, I want to ask you, we just were talking about how a number of people are working behind the scenes. You're one of them and you know what is going on. So for my audience and for me, what is happening? What, what could give us hope that people are working on, you know, figuring out what happened and how it doesn't happen again and where do we go from here. So what's going on? Well, the fact that we're sitting here still exercising our constitutionally protected rights to freedom of speech, freedom of association, free exercise of religion, freedom of the press, all of the things we're speaking truth.

That should give us hope because the American people are the ones that are not letting this go and are not saying we will cede our country to any of this, whether it is a stolen election, whether it is the transgender movement, whether it is the progressive left trying to take away parental rights. I mean, any of this. The American people understand at our core that the thing that unites us commonly is not our heritage. It's not how we look. It's not what we do. It's the fact that we come together under a common creed that we recognize that our rights come from God, our creator, not our government. And we require that our government preserves and protects those rights. And so while it is a slower process in America to correct wrongs and to move our government into a better place, because we don't have just one tyrant. We don't have George III that we can just say, okay, he's the one bad guy.

We have an infiltration of the disgusting underbelly of the swamp that I can tell you. As a girl from Colorado, I had no idea how disgusting the swamp was. To quote a famous Colorado professor, we have a thousand Eichmans. Turns out we do. Yeah, and it's so, it is so disgusting and so prolific throughout the national RNC. I very famously left the Republican Party because I refused to be complicit in how much they try to undermine President Trump. They try to undermine the Constitution daily. They have what I call moral gerrymandering.

They're trying to bend the rules and flex. So what are we doing? Well, not only for election integrity, but for 2022, the greatest thing that matters because these Republican-led state legislatures are still, still, two years later, unwilling to pass election integrity law to ensure enforcement. So we have to make sure we are supporting the executive branch elections that can actually do something significant and administer elections properly. So, for example, I am supporting Doug Maastriano for governor of Pennsylvania. You've had him on the show.

I, too, I'm supporting Doug Mastriano for governor of Pennsylvania. That state is key. Exactly. And let me tell you why I wrote. It's called the Keystone State. It is. And it is key. It is key not only because you want a governor who's not going to abuse emergency powers.

And under the auspices of health and safety, usher in all kinds of mail and ballots, everything that Governor Wolf did and other Democrat governors did in 2020. But also, he can appoint in Pennsylvania a secretary of state that will administer elections properly. So that position of governor is so key to Pennsylvania. Because unlike my home state of Colorado, unlike my home state of Colorado, unlike Mark Fincham in Arizona who's running for Secretary of State, I and the President have both endorsed him. The governor's race in Pennsylvania is key because that allows him to meaningfully change elections,

make sure state law is followed. This would change the whole country, because Pennsylvania is that important. It's the most important race in the country, Eric. It is huge. So who is Mastriano going against and has Trump vocally supported him? So President Trump has not,

endorsed anyone in the race yet. Oh, stop the clock. Why has Trump? That really, I'm just kind of a little bit of amazed. So, so this is where it's, it's actually frustrating to a lot of us who are in this sort of outer inner circle of the president, where there are still people, I like to say he needs to drain the Mar-a-Lago swamp now. There are people around him that are still providing the recommendations for endorsements. He just endorsed Dr. Oz from Pennsylvania for Senate, who's far and away, pro-choice, goes against everything America first. He endorsed Morgan Ortegis over Robbie Starbuck in Tennessee, who's basically just coming in, trying to get an establishment seat. I'm going to come out publicly for Ronda Santis 2024 if Trump doesn't reverse these decisions.

And this is what a lot of people, this is Eric what a lot of people are saying that they're very frustrated that President Trump is still influenced by these people. It's astonishing. I honestly can't believe it. I can't believe it. I can't believe it. So many people have told him, and I spoke with him on the phone about Doug Mastirano and about this endorsement. And you know who's running against Mastriano and thankfully pulling around 7th is Jake Corman, who was, and thankfully nobody knows this name, he was in the state legislature and refused to take calls in Pennsylvania from the legal team or from the president himself because he

was such a coward, such a coward, that as a majority leader, he was. refused to do anything helpful for the truth about the election. And now that he's running for governor, he has a consultant named Kelly Ann Conway. And so now you see Jick Corman, who's playing golf at Marilago. See, now this is hard for me to fathom. That's the type of transactional politics that is not the 2016 Donald Trump. It's not even the 2020 really Donald Trump. But those are the things that frustrate people like you and me that love and support President Trump so much because he sees through the BS. Well, what I don't understand is how could somebody that I think of absolutely one of the good guys,

you know, Kelly Ann Conway, why would she not be working with Mastriano? How could she not get that? I don't get it. Money. I just can't believe that people are that transactional. That's like a nightmare. Well, and that's where the Republicans and the Democrats have absolutely no difference in Washington. And I was shocked working on the campaign, the 2020 campaign, how.

many of these brokered sort of transactional nature things happen. The Republicans are DNC light. And if we don't stand for morals, and I will say this on this program, I'm not getting paid by any of the campaigns that I endorse. I endorse people who I believe in their character. I wish I were getting paid, but I'm not getting paid either. But I like that I'm not so I can say that.

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Or call 800, 978, 30978. 3057. To use the promo code, Eric. Folks, welcome back. They tell me it's Tuesday. If that's true, then my guest is Jenna Ellis. Jenna, we're talking about a lot of stuff here, but what you just touched on, the levels of corruption in the RNC. Like, we know that the Democrats have sold their soul to Karl Marx. We know that. We accept it. But you would think that people on the Republican side would say, well, we need to make

sure that, you know, cultural Marxism doesn't destroy the United States of America. but you're making it sound like many and maybe most of them do not get that. They're not in that battle. They don't get it and they're too afraid of offending people. So for example, Rana McDaniel, who I have publicly spoken against and she blocked me on Twitter because she can't handle the criticism and she doesn't want to have the dialogue. She refused to go on one of the major networks with me to have this conversation. And she's too afraid of offending the LGBT community.

because she thinks that she needs to pacify them in order to have a Republican majority. And what she doesn't understand is that there are people in these key races, and this is why people are so upset about President Trump's endorsements that aren't really America first, because when you're supporting establishment candidates over the people who are the regular, average, everyday citizens who are seeing what's going on in this country, and they're saying, I'm going to stand up and run for office, not because I want to, not because I care about the power, but because I care about my country. I care that this flag still waves over the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Those are the people that will get into office and do the right thing and will not be run by Mitch McConnell or Kevin McCarthy. But that's where the Republican Party doesn't want to lose their influence. And so they have to pacify where they see the battle lines being drawn. So they are not principled. They are no different than Democrats. And what I saw in Washington is that the Democrats and the Republicans actually need each other to survive. And that's what's so disgusting. And I made, and my parents are my best friends. And I told them early on, you know, just in general terms, please keep me accountable. Because I never want to be in Washington or be on TV or have any job at sacrificing, at the cost of sacrificing my principles and that I work first and foremost for my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. And I have said to so many people in very high level positions around Trump, You know, I'm going to speak the truth.

And if he decides to send me back to Colorado, fine by me. Well, because that's the point that you know that God was the one who opened that door. 100%. He may have used Donald Trump. But God decides where your career goes. If you let him, if you're wise enough to let him, he will be the one to lift you up when he decides to lift you up and stuff. So, yeah, people who are afraid of losing power or access, the problem is they're not trusting God. They are not.

Maybe they don't even believe that's possible. Maybe they don't believe that they can trust doing the right thing is good enough. I mean, listen, there are plenty people who do not say Jesus is their Lord and Savior who have that kind of character built into them. They maybe don't even know why. They just know that they were raised to do the right thing and that somehow the universe or whoever it is will work with you. They don't, they're not even Christians, but they understand right and wrong.

They understand freedom and tyranny. And can you imagine, though, not having. the hope that is in Jesus Christ to say, I know that he will keep his promises, he will direct my path. If he had answered all of my prayers, I would never be sitting here. And thankfully, he didn't. And so even as a type A person who loves to control my schedule, I have my life plan for 10 years, God kind of laughed me and he said, you know, we'll see about that, Jenna. But thankfully, thankfully, as somebody who trusts in the Lord and knows that he has been so faithful through my whole life, I can't imagine the stress, the depression, the agony, and the fear, frankly, of having to think that I control my own destiny.

I don't want that. I want to let that rest in the arms of the supreme judge of the universe, as our founders called him. And that is the blessing of hope that we have. And so you want to talk about hope in America. When we pray to the Lord, thy will be done, we may go. through a lot of trials and discouragements and all of that. But we know that ultimately he is sovereign. And so we never live a day without hope because we know that his will is so much greater than ours. And when, by the way, did it ever become commonplace for American Christians

to think that we can stand up for truth and be courageous for the Lord without sacrificing anything? Well, see, that's the thing. I think we've basically had it so easy that we have really, It's kind of like you lose your muscle tone because you haven't worked out or you haven't done anything. And basically, we have been so blessed in this country that we forgot that the only reason we were ever blessed in the first place is because there were people fighting, laying their lives on the line, dying, bleeding and dying and suffering for freedom. It's why we have everything that we have. When our founders signed to that declaration and they said we mutually pledge our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor, that wasn't rhetoric. That was not a talking point. No.

They had no idea in that moment if they would prevail and if the truth would prevail, but they were willing to do it. And this was the same exact attitude that I saw and I respect so much from President Trump and Rudy Giuliani in the midst of this whole election battle. They have literally been willing to pledge their lives, their fortunes, and their sacred honor. If you look at the fortunes that have been lost by those two men, if you look at the sacrifices they have made when their character

has been smeared and damaged. They are in the same exact way willing to put themselves on the line for the truth. And I stand with them wholeheartedly and so many Americans that I talk to across the country. I was just at a rally in Pennsylvania

this weekend from Osterano. And hundreds of people came up to me and said, please tell President Trump thank you for standing for America. And what's so funny, because you and I both would say, oh, we're evangelicals. how interesting that, you know, neither Giuliani nor Trump would ever identify as I'm an evangelical. And yet somehow they get this stuff.

And how many people who, you know, identify as evangelicals don't get this? And you kind of think, how come they get it and you don't get it? You're supposed to get this. Because it's the same thing as the left. You can identify something all you want. want, but who you really are is what matters. And so you can, there are so many people in America that identify as Christians or faith-based that don't actually understand that the true definition of faith, if you look at the Hall of Faith in Hebrews 11, all of these people are listed because the writer of

Hebrew said they had faith, why they believed in the promises of God, and they acted on that belief, and that is faith. And you know why our founders said we have faith? free exercise of religion. Yes. Because if we only believe but we can't act, that is not faith and that's not religious freedom. That is exactly correct. I've been thinking about that specifically lately.

We'll be right back talking to Jenna Ellis. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Jenna Ellis. Jenna, what is your title these days? I mean, if people say Jenna Ellis, who is, you know, what? Yes. Host of the Jenna Ellis podcast on Salem. Jenna Ellis, who loves the Lord, really. That's it. But I am the host of the Jenna Ellis show on the Salem Podcast Network. I'm a contributor to Newsmax. I also am special counsel with the Thomas More Society, so still do a lot of litigation. It's primarily in the last little bit been about all of the ridiculous vaccine mandates and some of those religious liberty things. And I'm also the chair of the election integrity alliance. And so we're still working on a lot of those things. So a lot of different hats. I'm very busy, but I love the work that I do.

Well, we're talking about really important things. You just were talking about, you know, the free exercise of religion. And this is the key. And I'm literally writing a book about this now called Letter to the American Church, where I talk about this issue that somehow the evangelical church in America, not all, obviously, but many have really acted as though it's about what I say I believe up here. and it doesn't need to be manifested in my actions. As long as I believe it, it's about faith.

And then you think, well, wait a minute, wait a minute. James, in his epistle, makes it very clear that if we don't see you doing the works that would proceed from faith, it's kind of obvious you don't have faith. Well, and the American church, by and large, Big Eva, as we kind of call it, as we kind of call it in the mega churches. There is this complete backward thinking that somehow the addiction. that somehow the addition of God means that then he's become Jesus is my life coach, right?

So it's all about self-improvement, living my best life, and doing what I want now with the blessing of God who will give me, you know, the pastor will give me the TED talk, and Jesus is my life coach, and suddenly my life will be better. What they don't understand is that you don't add Jesus, truly, without subtracting sin, and subtracting the old man. Literally, the old life is put aside. So, yes, you add Jesus, but the only way you can add Jesus is if you subtract self. Yes.

Death to self. Self. Your self has to be crucified. And if yourself is not crucified and if yourself does not die, the resurrection power of Jesus cannot touch you. Is not living through you. And so where a lot of these Christians say, oh, yeah, I have faith. it's this idea that they're still going based on feeling and what they themselves in their flesh

want to do and want to have for their lives. And so they still want to be in control. They just want the blessings of God on their life. And so it's this almost manipulation of the gospel. It's really the perversion of the gospel because they don't understand that becoming a Christian and being truly indwelt with the Holy Spirit means that you are now saying, Lord, come what may, I am following you in true faith means I'm believing in the promises, the sufficiency, the inerrancy of the Word of God. Therefore, I will act according to your commands and not my will, but yours be done. That's what the churches are not teaching anymore. And why?

Same thing as the R&C. They don't want to be offensive. Well, it's interesting. As I said, I've been thinking about this a lot and I'm writing about it. You know, how did this happen? How is it possible that American evangelical churches got such bad theological? that they think that not being offensive is the sumum bonum, you know, like that, it's one thing to not care.

Like we shouldn't, we shouldn't want to offend people, of course. But when you make that an idol. Well, or when you're more worried about someone's feelings versus telling them the truth. I mean, Jesus himself said the gospel is offensive. Not that I want to go and punch you in the face with the gospel and say, let me purposefully try to offend you. That's not the point. It's that you have a greater purpose and there is a bigger truth than what makes you feel bad.

Because there are a lot of things that make us feel bad. Doctors provide truth. And it's sometimes offensive. It's not what we like to hear. But this is the entire point of the gospel and free exercise of religion is so that we have the best environment possible to be able to ourselves discover truth and teach our children the truth about God. We're going to have to end it there for hour one. more with Jenna Ellis and Hour 2.