The Eric Metaxas Show - Michael and Thomas Pack

Episode Date: September 28, 2023

Father and son filmmakers Michael and Thomas Pack introduce a new conservative film incubator "Palladium Pictures".

Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. Have you heard that some people have a nose for news? Well, Eric has a nose for everything. That's why this is called The Show About Everything. Now welcome your host who definitely passes the smell test, Eric Mattaxas. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the show. It's the Eric Mataxis show.

I play the role of Eric Mataxis. And in this show, which is nonfiction, I interview people, usually on subjects that are close to my heart or that I think are important. Today, I'm talking to filmmaker Michael Pack, who's been on this show before, who is responsible for a brilliant documentary called Created Equal Clarence Thomas in his own words and other things. and also Michael's son Thomas Pack, we are going to talk about something that is as close to my heart as anything could be. It's the idea of bringing, let's call them, conservative values, although that's just a fancy way of saying truth and reality, into media. It is crucial. people of faith, people of Christian values have dropped the ball on this for, I don't know, about 100 years roughly.

And so whenever somebody is getting into this game, I want to do everything I can to get to know them and to bring them to you, the audience of this program. So Michael Pack and Thomas Pack, welcome and thank you for being with us today. Thank you for having us on, Eric. It's a pleasure to be back on your show. Well, as you know, Michael, I am, you know, hot to trot on the subject of what I just mentioned. Now, you just wrote an article at Real Clear Politics. I want to talk to you about that because you sort of summarize what I was just getting at

or you explicate what I was just summarizing. Talk a little bit about that. And you can mention up front as well what Thomas is doing. So lead us into the conversation. Well, you're right. The real clear piece, which is a bit long, so I guess I explicate rather than summarize. But it tries to lay out what's happened in the culture war over the last at least 50 years. Maybe you're right closer to 100 and what we can do about it.

I mean, the fact is, as you, as everyone knows, the left, the progressive left dominates the culture. and they have at least since the 60s where they announced along March the Institutions, and they said they were going to work to take over first the university and then other cultural institutions, and they have succeeded. But I say, Eric, that it is to their credit. You know, this is a battle of ideas, and especially in the area of film and television, they're fighting for the ideas they believe in. You are quite right that we on our side have failed.

You know, they're to be commended for succeeding. They're fighting for what they believe it. I agree with you that what they believe in isn't right. So that's a negative. But they're commended for fighting for it. And over those years, they've built up institutions that supported and defended and make it possible. So I lay that out in the real clear piece, which people can also find on my Twitter page, Michael Pack underscore. But so I try to give how it.

So over 50 years, the left has poured tens of billions of dollars into this process. And it is their right to do so. And we ought to say that they have allied themselves with a very powerful ally in the form of Satan. We don't need to get more specific than that. But people need to understand that, you know, you're very gracious by saying, oh, they're fighting for their ideas. their ideas are harmful to human beings, not to conservatives, not to people of faith, to human beings in general. And so you're right that they believe in these ideas. But I just have to say speaking to you as a Jew, you know, Hitler believed in his ideas.

So because somebody believes in their ideas doesn't make it, oh, well, they've got their ideas. We have our ideas. I agree with you 100%. I know, no, of course, I know you do. And you're being gracious. So go ahead. But that's right. I mean, one way of looking at their ideas is they have a negative view of America, just taking that one slice of it.

And we have a positive, upbeat view of America. I mean, we are documentary producers, and I think this is this left takeover of culture is both in drama, fiction, and nonfiction. And in the nonfiction realm, it's clear as a bell. The 1619 project, which began in print, was now a multi-part Emmy-nominated Netflix. series and on like that. Is America based on racism and the defense of slavery, or is it based on the principles of the Enlightenment Jefferson laid out in the Declaration of Independence? And it matters for the country and the world, which sides you're on. So I agree with you. But their ideas are wrong, but given that they're wrong, they're right to fight for them.

So we need to fight for ours. But we have we have the model. of what they have done, and we need to just do it too. It is not that hard. It's not that complicated. It was not a conspiracy on the part of the left. They announced they were going to do it. It's their right to do it, and they did it. I mean, even in America, communist, for example,

have every right to promulgate their views, which I think is appropriate, given the First Amendment. It doesn't make their views right, but it does give them the right to promulgate them. And it's true. Well, think of the irony, though, that the left is increasingly, I mean, just to be fair, it is because of biblical values. It is because of the values of the founders of this nation that people on the left on the wrong side have the right, which we have given them to promulgate their views.

It is why Nazis could march through Skokie, Illinois. It is, right? So we believe in free speech. We believe in this kind of stuff. But the irony is that we're now living in a time where we're seeing the left, having gained power, use it to squelch and censor voices with whom they disagree. So in other words, they were willing to ride the train of free speech as long as it helped them. And then now that they've gained the upper hand culturally and in other ways, they're suddenly deciding, you know what, free speech, it was nice, it was nice for a while,

but now we don't want those, you know, conservatives to have a voice. So there's an irony here, which ought to be mentioned. There is. They're now the enemies of free speech. And in part it's because, as you say, it's no longer convenient, but in part it's because of the, you know, the radicalization of, you know, the radicalization of free speech. of liberalism, the sort of left liberal part of the Democratic Party. I mean, it used to be since the 60s, the new left has been an enemy of free speech.

You know, Herbert Mercuzza and company never believed in free speech. But that was a minority view on the left. And now, as you say, it's increasingly popular under other rubrics like stopping disinformation and misinformation and misinformation. And it is, it is. Do they get that from Stalin? I'm always trying to trace these ideas back. I believe it was the Moscow School of Stalin.

In any event, I, but you know, leekly. You know, Karl Marx did not believe in human rights and individual rights. And he, his whole worldview is opposed to that. If you believe in historical determinism and you know which way the world is going, why encourage freedom of speech? So both left and right, Hagellianism, Marx being left to Galeonism, was not really in favor of these kinds of freedoms,

these enlightenment freedoms and in a sense they were a reaction against it. I'm not an expert on this, though, Eric. You're going to get into topics too deep for me pretty soon. Well, obviously, we're not here really to talk about this exactly, but it's worth touching on. Well, look, the good news, the headline to me is that you and Thomas, whom we will let get a word in edgewise momentarily, are creating award-winning fabulous documentary films and trying to encourage others to do the same. It really is a wonderful thing.

As you and I have discussed, I'm getting involved in that, a number of media projects. And yours have been done with such extraordinary excellence that, you know, even those on the left have had begrudgingly to honor you. When we come back, I want to get into everything, and I want to ask you, Thomas, about this kind of conservative incubator film project that you're putting together.

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Folks, welcome back. It's here from Texas show. I'm talking to Michael Pack and Thomas Pack about, um, conservative filmmaking and getting in the cultural game with media and bringing in values that most folks listening to this program would agree with that America is a fundamental force for good. Free speech is a wonderful idea and on and on and on. So Thomas, what, tell us about this incubator project because I know your dad and his films, which have been on PBS and everywhere, tremendous stuff, but we need more of everything, to quote Seinfeld.

So what is your role in this? What do you have happening here? Explain that. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, we don't really think it's, you know, this point that my father's making. We don't think it's that novel, the point that the left has decided to create a lot of institutions around film, from everything from film schools to film festivals to stream, platforms that there's an ecosystem where you can train filmmakers and talent is cultivated

and it works great and they're very successful in Hollywood and there's no such thing exists in as clear way on the right there are there are some programs but but just I mean we're just being really well outspent and so our idea is to kind of create this incubator which will create a network effect and is going to be the beginning of such institutions coming together on the right. It's the, you know, every year we'll do this program. We'll help several filmmakers create a short film. We'll help make sure that that film gets seen. And then there'll be more people affecting the culture. And I think we'll also try to prove something to the conservative donor class as well, that this is something worth kind of waking up to. And,

and funding. You're too, you're too gracious to say, hey, you idiots, this is important. That would be my way of putting it at this point. It's bizarre.

Well, so what is the website and what is the name of the program? In other words, you're encouraging young filmmakers to make films along these lines. So is there a website and what's the name? Absolutely.

So we're, our new company is called Palladium Pictures. They can go to PalladiumPictures.com. Palladium. Palladium pictures. P-A-L-L-A-D-I-U-M and go to the incubator program, which, you know, this is for, this is for producer directors that are right of center. So people that know how to make films.

So, I mean, I encourage your listeners to apply if they're producer directors or send this info to anyone that they know that is in filmmaking that wants a chance to get a documentary short, fully funded. They get mentorship, executive producer Michael Pack, will be. will, you know, help them with their film. And then at the end, we'll help distribute the film. So that way it will get seen by a larger audience. So it's a great program for anyone that, you know, wants a career springboard and wants, you know,

to like make a great documentary film on topics that the, shorts on topics that the mainstream media is ignoring. Well, this is fantastic. And, you know, you say right of center. I'm not sure what that means anymore. It's kind of like reality-based, pro-reality. Like, what values do you need to have? You kind of feel like evil is a bad thing.

We've gotten into a world that's so bizarre that right of center is now, you know, I believe one plus one equals two. Big Brother is not good. It's kind of funny. But anyway, I think people listening to this program will know what we're talking. talking about. So lay it out a little bit. In other words, this is something that is going to be happening every year. And is it already happening this year? Can people apply now? Yeah, applications are open and they close December 1st. And it will happen every year. We're committed

to making this a long program and to, you know, every year increasing the number of filmmakers that are contributing to the culture in a meaningful way. I think, you know, Eric, we're big tent when it comes to what we mean by right of center. But it is fortunate in the documentary world that so, you know, since we're in documentaries, we're always looking for the story that's not being told. And so it's fortunate that we're counterculture in a way because there's so many great stories that deal with, you know, pro-America themes or the, you know, the types of, you know, journalism on topics that, you know, the media is, you know, not as interested in covering are

often the juiciest and the best stories. So we're lucky in the documented world that there's a lot of space for great writer-center films. Well, we've become the counterculture, and it is true that it's part of my decision-making process in terms of who are the kinds of guests that I want to have on this program. People whose stories are not generally getting told. and that's, you know, that's so important. And it's why, Michael, your documentary about Clarence Thomas is so beautiful because it is one of the most extraordinarily pro-American stories I've ever seen in my life. It's just beautiful.

And the idea that you were able to get it on PBS and get it coverage in the mainstream, so to speak, it's so important that we get the truth out, we get these stories out, and as we've been discussing, not only is there a shortage of people willing to make these films, but then if you make a film like this, where do you distribute it? Obviously, the distributor, that world has changed dramatically. There's been this fracturing, but in some ways that works to our benefit. So what is your sense, both of you, of where films like this, can find an audience? I think there's more potential now than ever before.

I mean, it is true that over my career I've gotten 15 plus films on PBS, which has been great for us. But now there are, and I think that's still possible, even for conservatives, but I think now there are many other ways to reach an audience, and that's a great thing. And I think there are a few signs, I mean, an important point to go back to your earlier discussion,

is that these values that we believe in are shared by the overwhelming majority of Americans. It may be countercultural, but it's not marginal. The belief that America is a positive force in the world, just to take that one, is shared by, must be three quarters of America. And we have always aspired to reach the middle. The conservatives do an okay job at reaching, you know, their core, you know, preaching to the choir. And I think that's needed and necessary.

But we want to reach the middle of America that it may be undecided about these things and are dissatisfied with what they're getting. And I think that dissatisfaction is made apparent by things like the success of Sound of Freedom, which managed to reach a huge, was made outside the Hollywood system and made over $200 million at the box office. There is an audience out there that can be reached. first we need some product, then we need to experiment in ways to reach them. And you and I have talked about that, and it's a hard part of the puzzle. And it also needs investment on the part of conservative donors that you and Thomas have slightly differently characterized as either stupid or just unable to see why they need to put their money in this.

In league with the devil, I think, is the term I was looking for. But the left, the point of the ecosystem is the left has minded. not just production, our end of it, but they've funded distribution and they've funded, they have funded Sundance and Telluride and film festivals and awards ceremonies

and they've taken, they've used funding sources both on the nonprofit side like Ford and MacArthur and on the for-profit side, like starting companies in Hollywood that are dedicated to activist filmmakers and progressive causes. So we have to start putting our money across the board, not only in production.

We are on the production side, as are you largely, but money has to go into all these institutions. That's why it's an ecosystem. And the left, as I say, has poured tens of billions into it over 50 years for hundreds of billions of dollars, and they built these structures up. We need to start to catch up. And it's not that hard to do. It's a relatively free market. I always say the culture war is way more winnable than, than taking over the government's bureaucracy,

which I have also tried to do, and it's very protected. Yeah. I think you're right. I think you're right about that. And I think that we, on our side, I mean, even when you just mentioned the 1619 project, which is a wicked, really horrible, horrible, wicked thing.

I mean, it's lies upon lies upon lies, promoted by the New York Times. Now Netflix has done a series. it's winning Emmy Awards. So we have to reckon essentially the New York Times, the Emmy Awards, they're dead. Whatever they once were, they're dead. They're ridiculous.

And we have to make people understand that something getting an Emmy Award, you know, it's like Barack Obama winning the Nobel Peace Prize. I don't know, I guess he was in junior high school when they gave it to him. But the point is these things have become ridiculous. And we have to do what we can, if we, you know, to the extent that we, can, but we have to be honest that we're in a new day. And all of these things are changing, largely, I would say, in our favor, giving us, giving us an ability to get our messages out and our stories out. So we'll be right back, folks. We're talking to Thomas Pack and Michael Pack. You can go

to palladiumpictures.com. You should go to palladiumpictures.com. We'll be right back. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain. I'm often asked that question just the other night. I was asked that question, well, the owners of relief factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal. That's right, designed to heal, and I agree with them. And the doctors who formulated relief factor for them selected the four best ingredients, yes, 100% drug-free ingredients, and each one of them helps your body deal with inflammation. Each of the four ingredients deals with inflammation from a different metabolic pathway. That's the point. So approaching from four different angles may be one.

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For many reasons, Thomas Pack and his father, Michael Pack, documentary filmmakers. Now, Thomas, you said that there's this incubator project. You're trying to encourage young filmmakers, and that December 1st

is the deadline for applying for this year. People need to go to palladiumpictures.com to apply. Now, so if people apply, what are they what are they doing there? What are they doing and what are they asking to be involved with? Yeah, that's right, Eric. So we, I mean, we believe in like, I mean, it's a, this is a learn by doing programs. You know, this is people that are going to apply with an idea for a documentary short.

And we're looking for people that are producer directors can demonstrate in their application, that they have talent and that they can put together a crew and make a film because in this incubator, these people are on their own, wherever they are in the country, making, you know, producing a documentary short. We will be advising them, executive producing them, helping make sure it comes together with, you know, our ideas of what documentary filmmaking is, which is a mixture of real filmmaking, which requires storytelling elements and, you know, a narrative that captures the viewer and real journalism. That requires looking at all sides and, you know, talking seriously to potential sources.

So we're looking for people with a documentary idea that can show that they have talent. And people that are interested in these stories that, you know, mainstream is ignoring people that have a right of a center viewpoint. It's a pretty simple application, though. It's a simple application. And at the end of it, we will fully fund the short. funding is up to 30,000 for five to 15 minute documentary shorts. And we will help with distribution, you know, as well as executive produced. So, you know, I think the idea is to get these films seen.

I think one of the key things that Thomas brought up that you and I have also talked about is the storytelling aspect. The failure on the right where the left actually does way better than us is we rank these pieces which preach at the viewer, rather than tell stories. You cited in my Clarence Thomas film, I just let him tell his story, and his story is a dramatic story. You don't have to draw the lessons from it. They are made apparent by his very passionate telling of his life story.

And there are many such stories that are simply not being told because of the bias of the media. But we want to teach these young filmmakers to tell a story rather than to preach. And that's a key part of the incubator. It's interesting to me because I think that people often say to me that I'm a really good storyteller. And I never thought of myself that way. To me, it's instinctive.

But obviously, human beings, I would say, are created by God in a certain way that the way we take in information, we're not robots or insects. Story is somehow at the heart of who we are. And when you are expressing things through a story, not only do people track with it better, but they somehow seem to take the ideas in a more organic way. It doesn't feel like propaganda because it's not propaganda, it's art. And that really, really is important. And you're right to say that there are many, there have been many documentaries or, I guess usually documentary type film. that feel like they're preaching to the choir

rather than telling a story to win over those who might not yet be sure what they think. Yeah. And I think one great thing about the Clarence Thomas film is that a lot of our left of center friends told us that they thought it was great because whenever you think about Clarence Thomas's jurisprudence, it's a compelling thing to watch. And at the end of it, they viewed him as more of a human.

And you can see, I mean, in Hollywood, I think the most obvious example is just the way, for example, abortion has been portrayed over the years, just in the background of great films and movies that people like and movies that everybody likes, no matter what their political viewpoints are, has changed something in the American zeitgeist around that issue. It's just sort of starting to affect us. And, you know, that's just because everything is downstream of culture. People are affected by movies that are good. And to be good, you have to tell a story and you have to hold your audience.

So I think there's a lot of space through that type of filmmaking. And there's no reason that more of this doesn't exist for conservatives. It seems like it's finally beginning to happen. It's taken far too long. But what you're doing is an example of that. Earlier, you mentioned Michael Angel Studios. putting out the sound of freedom. It's, I think because of the times in which we live,

there's a hunger for this kind of information via the media, via cultural objects like films. And it seems that Hollywood, because Hollywood has been so allied with the left, it seems to me that the bankruptcy of the, their ideas is is finally showing. In other words, it's finally looking threadbare. And they are, they're struggling more and more because they've kind of, we're seeing the logical extension of these ideas so that most of the films that Hollywood is putting out are somehow woke and

and preposterous and speak less and less to the American middle than they would have in the, in the past. We're going to go to another break. Folks. I'm talking to Thomas Pack. and Michael Pack, you need to check out palladiumpictures.com. Paladiumpictures.com. You can follow them on Twitter as well. This is very important. I hope you'll check it out. We'll be right back.

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That's Essential Church streaming at SalemNow.com. Welcome back, folks. I'm talking to the two gentlemen behind palladium pictures, Michael Pack and his son, Thomas Pack. I was just saying, gentlemen, that it seems like, you know, the ideas of the left, they have, you know, kind of crawled through the institutions less than marched. They have crawled and slithered through the institutions for these decades. And we are now seeing that, in a sense,

they've gained the upper hand and they're able to really tell the stories or to be explicit about what they believe. And I think most of America is repulsed by it. I think a lot of the wokeery that we're seeing, being from Disney and from other, you know, used to be American institutions, is, it's not appealing. And it looks preposterous and dramatically out of touch, which to some extent Hollywood has always been. They've just been better at hiding it than they are now.

Well, I would say, once upon a time, Hollywood was in touch. I mean, and it's in classic Hollywood movies, you know, especially the 30s, 40s, and 50s, Hollywood movies embraced traditional American values, including religion, including the family, including America as an idea. I mean, Hollywood Westerns, I'm a big John Ford fan, are a belief that America is a great country. And we, although, you know, there are problems, it was great that we, we developed the country and pioneers went out west. And Hollywood, you know,

when was run by these Jewish moguls who had fled Eastern and Central Europe and pogroms and oppression, they appreciated it and loved America. And lots of the movies, classic movies, reflected that. I mean, they even voluntarily accepted a haze code, which did not allow them to stray too far

from pro-family, pro-marriage movies. And that was what it was like up until the 60s when there was as everybody you know when there was a student rebellion and anti-war movement and all that fed into Hollywood and it fed into Hollywood in a big way you know maybe easy rioters the sort of film key film in that transition um so I don't think Hollywood was always like that because Hollywood was not always like that it proves that it doesn't that movies don't have to be like that and those were hugely successful movies and those movies sold the idea of America to the rest of the world. People wanted to be like John Wayne and

cowboys everywhere. Even though it seems a particularly American thing, it wasn't. Now Hollywood is selling the idea that America is a racist, corrupt regime to the rest of the world, to the benefit of China and others. So it has to change. It's important to change, but it can change. In that, the content can change. I'm not sure Hollywood can change. I think Hollywood may be dead. I read an article just yesterday. I can't remember where I read it. I think it was Revolution News or a revolver or something. I can't remember. But it was making the case that Hollywood, not just ideologically, but in other ways, is struggling desperately to exist. I don't know that they can't backtrack. I mean, they're very ideologically committed.

I think what we need to do, you use the first. phrase counterculture earlier, is set up our own system. I think the angel example is a good one. They are managed to distribute their movies outside of Hollywood. And one can do that. We need, I have seen over many years, conservative was going to Hollywood and begging Hollywood to to sort of make their movie and help them. And then it ends up being not what they thought. It's a little bit like if you're in a one party state, let's say America was only a Democratic Party state, you had to beg the Democratic Party to admit conservative ideas. It would not work. You need an alternative party. And we need something, an alternative to Hollywood. And it needs to be

funded in a big way by conservative donors who have enough money to fund it if they have the vision. But I think there's proof that there's an audience for it and a hunger for it, just as you said earlier and a huge amount of material. I always say that we have almost all the traditional stories of Western civilization that have been popular for thousands of years on our side. I mean, we are the ones that are best able to tell stories. Hollywood has to have, everything has to be an anti-Western. They have to flip the paradigm. Well, listen, we have the advantage of being on team reality. I'm only half joking. As you, I'm only half joking, usual. I mean, we are, you know, propaganda is like betting against the house. You're going to,

you're going to lose eventually. And when you, when you're willing to go along with truth and reality, it's going to resonate. So, so Hollywood has painted itself into this corner now of, they're more and more propagandistic. And so things that simply tell the truth or, you know, that, that share the basic values that most Americans share, that that's going to resonate. But it's a much more dramatic contrast now with Hollywood. And as you're saying, there are these different ways to get the messages out there. And I think we've got to, you know, we've got to do everything. If you can work with Hollywood, go for it.

But ideally, I think we do want to build our own systems or our own distribution systems. the question is whether we have time, you know, before it's too late. I really do think that we're on the lip of the abyss in America and that the time is short. I mean, I think it isn't. There are a lot of good things happening all at once here that may at least show us that the environment is ripe for change. Whether we've already lost the culture war and we ran out of time is a different question. But at least with all these things, I mean, even in the past few months, between Sound of Freedom and Richmen,

north of Richmond, just shaking the culture. And then simultaneously, as you say, Hollywood's having problems, streaming services, or having major financial problems. It seems like a shakeup is happening, which is great for us. I mean, since we're trying to train the next generation, it would be hard for us to train people

to take the path we took of make films for PBS. And that's the way to. speak to the center. And up until recently, it's been us doing that and the right has been, has mechanisms for speaking to the right. But now it feels like the entire environment is changing and there are maybe more opportunities to speak to the center if you can make good stories that are compelling. And I think as you were sort of saying, you know, we have America, the fact that pro-America stories are the conservative stories is good because they're better. They're more fun to watch. It's way better than the

grievance study type stories that you get coming out of Hollywood that are now... Can there be any doubt? That's what's so funny. Final segment coming up, check out palladiumpictures.com. Paladiumpictures.com. We'll be right back. Welcome back. Talking to Michael

Pack and Thomas Pack, palladiumpictures.com. There's so much more to be said. We have to continue this conversation another time. but you have a number of projects that you are working on that people can find at Palladium pictures. Can you enumerate some of them for us before we go? We are continuing to work both in long form and short form documentaries separate from the incubator. So we have one project that looks at the events in Seattle in the summer of 2020.

I think this is the summer of 2020 illustrates perfectly the difference between how the left has ignored certain stories and focused on others. According to the Washington Post, there are 12 documentaries coming out about January 6th by very prominent documentary producers. Can't be enough on that topic. How many documentaries are coming out about the demonstrations in riots post the George Floyd death across the country? Nearly zero, if you don't count hours.

So we want to look at the events in Seattle, which was extremely interesting and involved. the creation of this Chaz-Chap Autonomous Zone. I think the subject, perhaps, for another discussion, but it's a good example of a story that's simply being ignored. And on the short-form thing, our first short-form doc is probably going to be about the Loudoun County rape case. Another story the left would rather go away.

And we will just tell the facts. That'll be a 10- or 15-minute piece about this young girl who was raped in her high school in Loudoun County. and it was covered up by the school board and the sheriff's office and the county prosecutor. And why did that happen and how? And in both of the stories, you should tell my audience right now, it happened because of the transgender agenda. Yeah, that's correct. A rape of a girl was covered up because of the transgender agenda, which is despicable and most people don't want to talk about it.

And it is simply true. And the story needs to be told. And I'm grateful that you are telling that story. That's right. I mean, they thought that they were helping their trans agenda by covering this up. That seems to be the case, whether they were or not, who knows. But that's right. It's a good example of that.

And it's just a story that the left would rather forget about. But it happened, and it's an important story. So we have a couple of these coming up. And, but I want to go back to the, you know, point you made it in the last segment about running out of time. You never know if you're running out of time. The idea that you're running out of time is often used as an excuse to do nothing. And that has been the case for conservatives and media for me. You are singing my song.

I could not have said it back. And they're always saying, I always get from conservative owners. Well, the whole film television thing, it takes too long. We can do it all via politics, the very next election. We're going to pour all our money in, and that'll solve the problem. But it never does. They keep saying, well, when there's a Republican president? Well, the last Republican president, Donald Trump, who had a lot of political courage,

did not solve this problem, and it can't be solved because, as, you know, you quoted Breitbart, you know, politics is downstream from culture. It's too late to do it. Whitebar got that from me, by the way. I want everybody to correct that. Yeah, yeah. Well, I like to say, it's important. idea, but it's been around. I quoted my article, Shelley's statement that poets are the

unacknowledged legislators. It's the same idea. All people, you know. It's been said over and over, I believe Plato said it first. It's a fact. So your article is at real clear politics.com? That's right. Where they can get it at my own Twitter, which is Michael Pack underscore. I'll share that myself. That'd be great. These are important things. I'm sorry, we're out of time. Look, we have to be clear. The left is now trafficking in propaganda. Let a thousand Lenny Riefenstahls bloom, and good luck to them.

The reality is that we have to tell our stories and trust God to help us get them out there. Thank you so much, Thomas Pack and Michael Pack, to be continued. Recontinued. Thank you, Eric.