The Eric Metaxas Show - Michael Franzese (Encore)

Episode Date: July 19, 2023

Eric Metaxas interviews former New York mob boss Michael Franzese about how his life was changed.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Metaxis show. It's the show featuring Go-Go the Chimp. Nothing like a chimp to liven up the radio show. Easy there.

Go-go, go, go. No, go, go. If you've listened to the show, you know that this is the show about everything. We like to talk about everything. I hate to limit myself to only talking about everything, but that's at some point you have to choose, right? So we chose everything. We get to talk about whatever we want. We talk about faith. We talk about politics.

We talk to different people about really anything. As you know, not so long ago, I was in Orange County in the L.A. area hanging out with Pastor Greg L.O.R. Glory speaking at his church. And he was telling me about a friend of his. And as I heard this story about a famous New York City Mafia underboss, part of the Colombo crime family, he's telling me about this guy and says this guy became a Christian, blah, blah, blah, blah. I said, what? What?

I'm from New York. My wife's last name is Scavone. All my friends are Italian. How is it possible that I have not heard of this? This doesn't make any sense. So I accused Greg Lorry of being nothing but a big liar. Well, it turns out I was wrong. I apologize, Greg.

This is a true story. And I said, this guy, Michael Francie's, when I can get him into my studio in New York City, I want my audience to hear his story because this story is flat out nuts. And it turns out Michael is in the studio right now. Michael, welcome to the program. Good to be here. I really, for me, the most amazing thing about amazing stories is that I hadn't heard it before. Like I said, when I heard your story, I said, it doesn't make any sense to me somehow except God's sovereignty that I would have missed your story.

You have an amazing story. And when I heard about it, I said, my audience has to hear your story. So where do we begin? Well, first of all, it's sometimes good that you didn't hear about me way back when. it wouldn't have been too flattering. Well, at that time. I want to hear the unflattering stuff. I think it meant, listen, you know and I know that the son of Sam, okay, David Berkowitz,

who killed people back in the 70s, whatever, he had an encounter with Jesus, and he is now serving God. And it's one of the most amazing stories. It's like your story. It's an unbelievable story. And I'm going to have him on this program. I'm going to go visit him in his prison and talk to him. These stories exist.

And yet in the culture in which we. live in the media, you don't hear these stories. I hadn't heard your story. And so I exist to bring these stories to the public. So let's start with who you were. I mean, let's go back, 25 years, whatever. Who were you at that time? Well, for me, it started really growing up in Brooklyn and moving out to Long Island at some point. My dad, Sunny Francie, was the underboss of the Colombo family back in the 60s. And very, very high profile, a major target of Long Island. Boasman, kind of like the John Gotti of his day. So I grew up in that atmosphere. So you grew up,

so you're saying in the 60s, your dad was Sunny? Sannie Francie's. And what does that mean under boss? I mean, who is he, he's under the Colombo family? I mean, he was under who? He was the second in command under Joe Colombo at that time and the family, you know, one of the five New York La Cosa Nostra families. So they really are five? This wasn't just made up by Francis Ford Copeland. No, no, no. There were five in the New York area. And dad was a very powerful position at that time, and he was, for some reason, extremely high profile. I mean, law enforcement was all over him. Every agency was on him. We had, I grew up with seven or eight different agencies parked around my house, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, surveilling my dad. He was indicted several times in the state for some very serious crimes, homicide, grand larceny, until finally in 1916. 66, he was indicted in federal court, excuse me, for masterminding a nationwide string of bank robbers.

In 1966. In 1966. And, I mean, this was huge, Eric. I mean, Life magazine wrote the biggest story on my dad that was ever written in life. It was 28 pages long. And it was all about a murder case that, you know, with a body that washed up on the shore in Queens. So, I mean, it was huge. Queens has a shore?

It does. I forgot about that. I didn't see this short too much. It does. I was born in Queens, obviously different circumstances. At what point, Michael, did you know the business your father was in? Well, I knew it early on because I couldn't help but know it. Like I said, we grew up surrounded by law enforcement.

My dad always in and out of issues. But I never knew it from him. What did he tell you? You know, I respected my dad a lot. Well, in many ways. He was my idol growing up. I loved him. But he never brought.

brought what was going outside in his world into the house. I was one of seven kids. We were a family in the house. That was it. And you know what amazed me, Eric, we would walk out, agents all around. He would walk past them like they weren't even there. I mean, he did not want that in our family at all. So everything I knew about my dad was from observation, was from the newspapers, it was from others, never from him. He never sat down talking. And you were in what part of Long Island? We moved out to Roslyn when we moved from Brooklyn. We grew up in Williamsburg, Greenpoint section. So how old were you when you moved to? Like 12 years old.

You were like 12. Okay. So you know what's going on at that point. Oh, yeah. At what point did it hit you? What did your father tell you that he did? Well, you know, I knew a number of things. I mean, he was in the music business.

He was associated with a company called Casablanca Records, Buddha Records. Casablanca? You remember them? As opposed to Casinostra? Yes. Casablanca. I don't remember them. Well, it was a big comment.

It was all the bubble gum music back at the time. Actually, now they mentioned it. I got it. I got it. Yeah. So I used to go with him to the. the record studio in the Brill building. You know, we used to go there all the time in Manhattan.

I was there several times. And then he had a tailor shop, a cleaning shop in Brooklyn that, you know, he wasn't a tailor, but he was, we had that cleaners. And then he had a couple of auto body shops on Long Island that he was partners with. So this was his business as far as I was concerned. So he was in, he was a businessman. Yeah. And what did you think, was there some point at which you thought he was being unfairly

targeted? I mean, as his kid, that there's something going on. What did he say to you? Well, I thought he was always unfairly targeted, you know, from day one, because like I said, he was my idol. But, you know, my dad drilled into my head. I want to be clear, he did not want this life of me. He was, I was an athlete in school.

He was extremely supportive of my athletics. What did you do? I played all three sports, but baseball was really my sport. Baseball and football. But I think I excelled more in baseball. and he wanted me to go to school and be a doctor. Drummed it into my head from the time I was five years old. You've got to be the first professional in the family.

I want you to be a doctor, you know. And that's the route I was on, you know. It's interesting because when you think of obviously the godfather, it's so funny that the Michael in that family was the same kind of thing. They were hoping he would go legit, right? They're thinking that you're going to be the one that you're going to get out of this and you're going to be a senator, you're going to be whatever it is, but you're not going to.

Now, before we end this first segment before we go to commercial, I just want to make clear. You did enter this business. I did, yes. And you were heavily involved as a serious member of what we call the mafia, La Cozanostra. What did you call it? La Cozanostra. La Cozanostra.

You were very involved. How far did you go? Well, I was appointed a capo regime. captain in their family. So I mean, I... This is what we call it a made man. A made man. I took the oath in 1975, Halloween night, 1975. And I was 100% totally committed to be the best possible guy I could be. I wanted to rise in the ranks, wanted to make my father proud.

So you were a captain in this business in 1975? Well, I became a soldier in 75. When you come into the life, you come in as a soldier. I was appointed a coppa regime in 1980, five years later. That's still, it's a long time ago. Yes. So you're a copo in the mafia in 1980. Do you understand that's 36 years ago? I do.

It doesn't be you don't believe it, right? It's 36 years ago you were a copo in the mafia. And how long were you in the mafia? I spent 20 years on the street, a total of 20. 20 years. That takes us up to 2000. Yes. Okay. Well, actually from...

Oh, sorry, from 75 to 85. I was 75 to 95. 20 years. And you did how many years in prison? I did eight. Eight years in prison. We're going to get to that. Folks, this is a great story. It's a great story, an important story, how somebody at the bottom of the bottom, as far as I'm concerned, can meet Jesus. We'll be right back. Tell me, Jailamara,

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That's LegacyPMinvestments.com. I turn that's turn that stuff off. We're getting serious here. No more joking around. That's the great LuMonte. It doesn't get better than Lu Monte. I'm talking to Michael Franciez. Now, Michael, normally I would have pronounced it differently, but that's how your family pronounces. Yes. Francis. I want it to sum up again, you were an underboss, a capo, in the feared Colombo crime family, La Cozanostra. You were generating $5 to $8 million, get ready for this, folks, $5 to $8 million per week from legal and illegal businesses. You were deep in the heart of the mafia. Your father was written about, when you were 35 years old, Fortune magazine listed you as number 18 on its list of the 50 most wealthy and powerful mafia bosses. At age 35, you were five behind John Gotti. So this is, we're not talking to somebody who was just around this world.

You were this world. This was, you were right in the thick of. of things in a way that most of us can't even imagine. You know, we see things in the movies, whatever. You were living this. What were you called, the Yuppie Don? Yeah, I got tagged with that name later on. I didn't like it.

Right, of course. Of course. I guess because I was a newer. It was the 80s. You were a young guy, you know, you dressed in nice suits, whatever. You're the Yuppie Don. You know, the post has to do something, right? They got to come up with, it's more attractive, be called.

the chin or somebody like that. But you got the upy done. So, all right. So you are following your father's footsteps. So tell us, take us back. I mean, I want, there's so much here. I don't want to rush this. To give people the facts before we go backwards.

When did you go to prison? Well, I went to prison in 85. In 1985. But going back, my dad got indicted on a, like I said, masterminding a nationwide drink about. bank robberies in the Eastern District of New York, the Feds. And he drew a 50-year prison sentence. That's in 66.

That was in 66. 50? 50 years. It was the longest sentence for a bank robbery conspiracy case ever given up to that point. And in 1970, he loses all his appeals, goes off to Leavenworth Penitentiary to do his time. Now, let me ask something here. When they hit him with 50 years for masterminding bank robbery, is that because they knew he had done all these other things.

Like, what are they, was this actually what it says in the book to give for master mining of bank robbery, or was this because they knew that they got a big Colombo under boss? Yeah, I mean, he had beaten three cases prior to that. And so I think they just hit him with everything. We were shocked. I mean, we never anticipated a sentence like that. And, you know, it's almost like the O.J. Simpson thing.

You know, he gets 33 years for going into a hotel room, but he beat the murder case. Well, that's Al Capone got tax evasion. I mean, so that's what I'm saying. So this was... It was kind of like, we got you now and we're getting even with you. Right. But I will tell you this, Eric. I went to prison for a crime that I was guilty of.

I pled guilty. Did my time. My dad, on that particular case, my dad was framed. I'll take that to my grave. I investigated that case thoroughly. We spoke to every witness that testified against them. They recanted their testimony. We gave a lie detected test, prove they lied at the trial.

We can never get the confession. conviction overturned, 100% he was framed. My dad was no bank robber. And no doubt about it. He was no bank robber, but he was other stuff. Listen, you know, I tell people all the time, you know, if you put your hand in the fire long enough, you're going to get burnt. And listen, we lived a criminal lifestyle, and it's going to catch up with you, no doubt. Unbelievable. So your father passed away in prison? He did not.

He did not. My dad today is 99 years old. He's the oldest. living federal inmate. He's still in prison. Your father is 99 years old. He will be 100 in February. Unbelievable. My dad's the oldest living made man in America. He's part of this life 67 years. He goes back to the days of Luciano and Costello and all of that. He's kind of a legend in this life because he's outlasted everybody. He's not kind of a legend. He's a legend. Yeah, he's outlasted everybody, Eric. And he'll be out next year. His release date is June of 2017.

I'm speechless. I did not expect to get to this part of the story. You're not kidding. This is unbelievable. Yeah. He went in in 1970. He went in 1970, right. April of 1970.

We are 46 years after that. He's been on the inside for 46 years. No. He was in and out. He's done 37 years. He's been in and out five times. And why is that? Parole violation.

He made parole because he was under the old law when they still had parole. So he made parole. He would associate with another felon. They'd surveil him and they locked them up. They violated him five times. I cannot believe this. So when did he first get out? First got out after 10 years.

So he got out in 80. He did 10 straight, made parole, and then it was just a revolving door from that point on. Oh, my gosh. But here's a sad thing. You missed this, too. When he got out on his last violation about six or seven years ago. In his 90s.

Yeah. He was 92, I believe. He got indicted again. Another case, went to trial in federal court in Eastern District here in Brooklyn, and was convicted, and they gave him another eight years. So on top of the parole violation, he's doing another eight-year sentence. All of it expires in 2017. This is unbelievable. I assume his health is decent.

For 99, he's in pretty good shape. Now, he's in a wheelchair, but he could still walk, but he's got phlebitis in his legs, and he's got a pacemaker and stuff like that. Do you get to say where he is? Yeah, he's in just outside of Boston in a place called Devons. It's an FCI. It's a medical facility. It's about 40 miles outside of Boston. Do you get to see him?

I do. You know, Eric, honestly, I'm a little guilty. I haven't seen him much in the last year. And I'll tell you the reason for that, you know, and I don't mind saying it here. I've been either visiting prison or in prison myself since I'm five years old. And I'm just burnt out, man. As a matter of fact, I go into prisons now and speak to inmates. I was in two this month already, and I'll be doing more because I try to, you know,

encourage them a bit. But it's a hard visit with him now. Yeah. Because he's in a wheelchair. He's got to use the restroom every 20 minutes, which is a whole hassle there. How many kids did he, how many brothers and sisters you say you had? I was one of seven. So do your siblings visit?

My sisters do. My older brother does. He's two years older than me. My younger brother, this is going to shock you too. Unfortunately, is in the witness protection program. He got himself in trouble. He had a severe drug problem most of his life. And he ended up testifying against my father, and that's what put him away on this.

And, you know, not jumping ahead, Eric, but this is why, and I like people understand this, This is why I call the mob life, the gang life, and evil life. And I'm not going to call the guy's evil. No way, because I was one of them. I just happened to be extremely blessed. But I don't know one family of any member of that life, gangs, mob, La Cosa, Nostra, that hasn't been totally devastated, including my own. And not my wife and kids, praise God, but my brothers, my sisters, my mother, my father.

It's a mess. And every family is the same because you can't bring that kind of stuff into your, house. It's just, it's just devastating. Yeah. Wow. I still, it's going to take me a long time to get over the fact that your father at age of 99 is still on the inside and he's going to get out. Because, you know, when you talk about a 50-year sentence in 1970, that's it. Of course. But no, it's not it. Incredible. It's just, it's incredible. Now, your story, you went to prison for the first time when? In 80? Well, I've had several indictments. I've been indicted five times.

But the first prison, lengthy prison sentence that I had was in 1985. I started. And I got out in 95. I actually was out and then violated parole and I went back. So how many years were you in at that point? I did five. I was out for 13 months, violated, and then went back for another three years. Now, when you were in the first time, okay, you're a young man, you're very powerful in the mafia. What was that experience like for you? You know, I took a plea. You know, Eric, when you're on the street, you know, you realize at some point in time you're going to do jail time.

I mean, I wasn't afraid of jail. Okay. So, you're a father of all life. But that's interesting. So, yeah, you just realized this is just part of the way it goes. It's part of the deal. You know, the thing that happened, obviously, in the 80s, when Giuliani went crazy, I would say, on the mob, is that all of a sudden, five years turned into 25 years with these RICO statutes.

And I had three RICO indictments. So, you know, jail was a little different because they abolish parole. Now you're going to do 85% of your time. Right. The whole thing changed. But I still knew I was going to do some time. Right. Now that's so long ago.

You've become a Christian. We're going to get to that, folks. But just a couple seconds. It must be difficult, not kind of what we Christians call, in the natural. to resent certain aspects of law enforcement, Giuliani, whatever, because you realize that they also dirtied themselves in doing their jobs? Yeah, I mean, there was a strong resentment there at one time. I mean, honestly, I hated law enforcement.

I hated the government. I hated anything to do with the law enforcement. We're going to be right back, folks. Talking to Michael Francie's great story. It's Eric Mataxis show. Stick around. grows bigger and bigger. It's powered by everyday Americans who are sick and tired of all the woke propaganda being jammed into every product they consume. Big mobile companies are no different.

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Patriotmobile.com slash metaxus or call 878 Patriot. Hey folks, you know how much I love Mike Lindell well. Right now, My Pillow has a massive closeout sale happening on their all-season slippers. Listeners continually make the MySlippers the number one selling My Pillo product. And I have a feeling you want to stock up right now when you hear the offer. When you use my promo code, Eric, you'll get the all-season slippers for $25. Regularly, $149.98. That's over $120 in savings, limited to 10 pairs at checkout.

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Click on the Radio Podcast Square to grab a pair of the all-season slippers for $25. Limited to 10 pairs at checkout. Enter promo code Eric or call 800-978 3057. 800-978-3057 for this incredible. offer. These won't last long, so please order now. Hey there, folks. That is the great Lumonte with the Italian Hucklebuck. I'm such a fan of Lumonte. I sang that song at my 50th birthday. I wanted Michael, Francise, to know. Michael, we're talking about mafia. We're talking about prison. You were in the second time, I guess,

you were telling me. And is that when you had this experience with God? When did you hit bottom what happened because people do not expect somebody who's really in the mafia we're not talking like you're some fringe character you are right in the middle at what point does do things change for you well i was uh you know i grew up at catholic but quite honestly catholicism was to me was like a subject in school that wasn't a practicing religious guy at all but i meet my young wife who's a devout christian her mother she was at that time at that time, 20 years old, devout Christian. I met her on the set of a movie that I was producing at the time. She was a dancer in the film. What year was this? This was in 1984. Okay, so you're in the middle of this life?

In the middle. I'm a mob guy all the way. This is who I was. You're a mob guy, but you're, you still maintain this legitimate veneer. You're producing a movie. Correct. And your wife was a 20-year-old in the movie? Dancer in the film, yeah. Okay. And I meet her without getting in all of it. Originally, she didn't want anything to do with me, but I pursued her very heavily. Now, why did she know, did she know, I mean, was she an evangelical Christian at that time? Yeah. Okay, that's why she'd want anything to do with you because you were not. No, she didn't know who I was.

She thought I was the producer of the movie. No, no, but what I'm saying is that she knew you were not an evangelical believer. That's not why she was turned off on me. Okay, okay. I was the producer of the film. She thought I was too old for her. Okay, all right. 12 years older than her.

Okay. You know, quite honestly, I was messing around with a lot of women on the set. Right. So she wasn't into that. So when I first spotted her coming out of a pool in a hotel in South Florida, I had thrown a party for everybody. I had everybody staying at the hotel. She just blew me away when I saw her. And so I wanted to meet her and the choreographer introduced me to her.

I asked her out on a date. I said, let me buy your lunch. She said, great. And we set a place and a time and she doesn't show up. So, you know, I'm pursuing her through. out the whole production of the movie, basically. And, you know, I was always treated women respectfully, so it wasn't like I was, you know, acting foolish, but she just didn't want to have anything to do with me.

She would say, yes, I'll meet you, and then never show up. Well, one night I happened to corner her. We were coming out of a cast meeting, and we started talking a little bit, and she finally opens up to me. She's from Anaheim, California, you know, and she told me she was a believer or a girl of faith or something like that as we got into the conversation. and a long story show we said to know each other a little more

you know as we're filming the movie finish the movie rapid very close to her mother she says you got to come home to Anaheim and meet my mother I said hey great let's go I'm great with moms right we jump on a plane I meet her mom Irma the most godly woman I haven't met in my life I mean you meet Irma for two minutes your name goes

in a prayer book she had a prayer book like a telephone book Eric I'm not kidding godly woman simple woman woman never hit me over the head with the Bible, but lived her life like Jesus was her best friend. And I can only say that. And I'm impressed with these two women. They really were serious about their faith. You'd never see anything like this.

Never saw anything like that. No. No. And so here's what's happening to me. I'm falling in love with this young girl. Falling in love with her. Eric, here's the amazing thing. I meet her.

I'm at the top of my game. I'm a mob guy all the way. I'm my father's son. Honestly, they were grooming me. to be the boss or the underboss? I mean, I was going up in that life. Excuse me. And all of a sudden I meet her.

And my love for her is becoming stronger than this lifelong bond, this love that I had for my dad. It's becoming stronger even than this blood oath that I took to La Cozanostra. And you got to understand something. It was never on my radar screen to ever walk away from that life. It's not even a thought. But here's what's happening.

Something's coming over me. And honestly, I had nothing to do with God at that point. I respected their beliefs. I wasn't buying into it. Right, right. But here's what happened. I said, I want this girl in my life, but how's this going to work? I'm a direct contradiction, everything these women believe.

When they really know what I'm about, they're going to run for the hills. Right. And, you know, so I had some decisions to make at that point. Wow. Oh, my gosh. So this is the 80s, 84, 85. Okay, so not long after that, you go to prison. What happens is she falls in love with me.

I ask her to marry me. She says yes. And she still doesn't really know who you are. You know, I got to be on. My wife is Mexican, a Mexican American, but Mexican from Anaheim, California. Right. She saw the Godfather once. She never even met in Italian.

She doesn't know about this universe. No. She's not a New Yorker. Not a New Yorker. Yeah, so she's not, this is not on her radar. And there's no L.A. mob, really. We used to call them the Mickey Mouse mob out there. There's nothing really out there, you know.

So she didn't know. that presence at all, nor did her mother. And I never sat down and say, hey, by the way, this is who I am and this never did that. You're a New York business guy. Of course. So the exotic part of it is that you got this New York stuff going on. They don't realize where it goes. I'm a movie producer on a couple of car dealerships, and, you know, I'm an entrepreneur in my mind. So, and then things started to get very serious. All right. When we come back, we're going to hear how serious, what happened. Folks, we're talking about the most important thing in the world. Conversion to Jesus Christ. That's my opinion. I don't want to impose it on you. I don't want to shove

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Hey, that's Bobby Darren. I just want you to know Michael Frenz says that we play this music even when you're not here. here just so you know not all of it but most of it um okay uh you were just getting to the to the guts of the story here you are deep in the mafia you fall in love with your wife where what does it go now what happens well i knew i had to make some changes um if this girl was going to be in my life because like i said i'm a direct contradiction to everything these women believe these are real women of faith this is a love story see i don't expect to go here this is an amazing love story I didn't expect it either, but... I mean, but it's amazing.

Because even if you take out the God piece, because obviously this is the main part of the story, but even if the idea that you want to leave the mob or that you're conflicted because you have fallen in love, that's a story. That's an amazing story. And we're going to get your wife in here next time. We got your brother-in-law right here. Yes. Is he packing? No.

No. He's packing with the spirit. Hallelujah. All right. That's actually more powerful. but I want to, so you are right in the middle of it. Where does it go? What happens?

Well, I end up asking her to marry me. She says yes. And now what do I have? After five cases that I had been tried on, one of them by Rudy Giuliani, and they're going to indict me again on another major case in the Eastern District concerning this whole gas business that I was involved in. So I had a plan. I always had a plan. I'm going to take a plea. I'm going to give the government some money back.

I'm going to do a couple of years in prison. I'm going to marry Camille. I'll move out to the West Coast. When I get out of prison, I'll have parole and probation. I can use that as an excuse not to meet with my guys back here. And maybe after 10 or 12 years, the guys will forget about me. I live happily ever aft out in California. That was the plan.

So I married Camille in July of 1985. She was 21 years old. I go to prison in December of November. 1985 on this plea. You know, and Eric, I always say this, and I'll say it briefly, I'm really not the story here. I believe my wife is the story. With that young girl went through, the baggage I brought into her life, you know, she will tell you, and she tells people, look, I love my husband. We're together 31 years. I love my husband, but if God wasn't in the foundation of our marriage, she wouldn't have made it through. I mean, you can't imagine the struggles that we had with my decision

to walk away from that life. And it really came down on her, too. Well, because nobody believes you can walk away from that life that they're going to, you know, it's the old cliche, right? They drag you back in. I mean, there's no way you walk away so easily. Yeah, and, you know, I was so conflicted. I mean, I took a blood oath and it was, it permeated my whole body, my mind, my soul. I'm my father's son. I didn't want to, you know, betray him. So I had this tremendous conflict going on within me, you know, and, you know, so it was very, very difficult. And as a result, you know, the feds were all over me to become a witness. They You want to put me in a program.

They said, you're a dead man anyway. Cooperate with us. We'll put you in a program. Words all over the street. Your father turned against you. Persico's looking to kill you. I mean, I had a rough time. Persico's looking to kill you?

Well, he was my boss. All right. You know, so, I mean, and he took it very personal when I walked away. Very personal. Okay. Tell us who Persico is because, I mean, this is one of these fabled names, but not everybody who listens to this program is up on mob lore. Well, Carmai Persico was the boss of the Colombo family.

at that time. And still has, you know, he's doing life in prison now, but he still has, he still has influence. He's influenced now? He has influence because Carmine was smart, Junior was smart in that he put a lot of his family members into the life. So he has a lot of family in that life. And even though he's lost a certain amount of control now because he'll never get out of prison, he still has influence. And so he was my boss. He took it very personal. You were afraid that he was going to come after you. You know, Eric, understand this, this is not a macho thing on my part, but I never lived in fear, only because during the 20 years that I spent in that life, I saw a lot of things happen.

I mean, I saw guys get walked into a room by their best friend and not go out again. It's part of one of the horrors of that life. I had that experience one night where I was walked into a room. I didn't know if I was going to come out. And so I think that was God preparing me for what I was going to face later on, because I walked into the room believing I wasn't coming out. And so it kind of showed me I could face death in a way. And I was scared.

Don't get me wrong. I was very scared. And people say, well, why did you walk in? It was kind of robotic. Yeah. You know, this is it, this is it. And that's the condition you get your head into. So I didn't live fear.

But I was always very cautious. I don't sell my former associate short. There's no blueprint for walking away from that life and not getting into witness protection programs. I didn't know how I was going to work out. But I had a lot of experience in that life. I knew what the guys would do or wouldn't do, and I did my best to protect myself.

And that's really the bottom line. So what happens, I marry her. I go into jail in December. I took a 10-year prison sentence. I had a $15 million restitution, $5 million in forfeitures, and they sent me out to the West Coast. It was part of my plea agreement to go to Terminal Island in California.

you was a federal prison out there. And I do my five years, tough five years because it becomes public that I'm walking away. Life Magazine does a big story on me. The feds are all over me to cooperate. They're moving me to every prison in the country, literally put me on diesel therapy, trying to break me down. What is diesel therapy? Diesel therapy is the worst part of being in the federal system because they pick you up in the middle of the night

and they transport you to another prison. Put you on a marshal's plane. You get into a bus. nothing with you. You end up in another prison. You get in there for two weeks. You get settled in. Boom. They pick you up again. They call it diesel therapy. When they're mad at you or they're trying to break you. That's what they put you on. And who's trying to break you? Feds. To do what? Cooperate. Yeah, they wanted me to cooperate against me. They want you to go into the witness protection program. Absolutely. And you are refusing and this is how they're putting the pressure on you.

Absolutely. I said, that's not for me. I'm not looking to hurt people. I don't want to go into the program. I'm not going to live like that. You just wanted to walk away without going into the program, which nobody had done before. Exactly. Well, publicly. Nobody publicly that I know of has ever walked away for their life, and I'm as high-profile as you can get now. You know, so. I mean, Sammy the Bull Garvano went into the program.

He's still in there. He's in the program. Yeah. What does he look like today? Nobody knows. No. I think he looks exactly like Kanye West. Nobody knows.

They have technology. Let me tell you. They can do anything. All right. We're going to come back talking to Michael Francie's about the mob life and the Jesus life. Hey, we talk about it all. It's the show about everything. Metaxistalk.com.

Send these podcasts to your friends if you would. Otherwise, how will they know? How will they know? We'll be right back. Mr. Blum's Guy. Tell us why. Make like Mr. Milk toast, you'll get shut out. Make like the Mr. Meek.

and you'll get cut out A little lamb and wham you're shorn I tell you chum It's time to come blow your horn All right We're talking to Michael Francie's We just got a few minutes left in this hour Michael

What happened? You meant God That doesn't normally happen to mafia people I had done five years in prison I was out for 13 months Worst time of my life literally dodging bullets. Can't make a little.

Literally dodging. People don't normally say literally die. They say dodging bullets and you realize it's a metaphor. You're talking about actual bullets. People coming out to hurt me in California. Fed's coming to me, Francie, if you don't leave your home this weekend, you're going to be dead. I had to pack up my wife and my little babies and move. I understood all of that.

I knew that was going to happen. But like a fool, I've got to be honest, I violate my parole. I fall into a trap violate. Eric, I can tell you this. The day I violated, they took everything from me. House with a search warrant, took money out of my wife's purse, went to my banks, leaned my bank accounts. Fed's were fed up with me.

They were trying to get me to cooperate. They didn't go along. And they put me in a six-by-age cell in the federal jail over in Los Angeles. Worst night in my life. Because I said, you know what, it's over. I said, they took all my money. They're going to indict me on another racketeering case. You don't beat these cases with a public defender.

I spent millions defending myself. I said, my wife, how's she going to wait for me now? She waited five years, 13 horrible months on parole. We got two babies. They took all our money. She got nothing. She can't even buy milk for the kids. I said, they can't put me on the yard.

I said, I got nothing but enemies. Everybody looking to kill me. The Bureau of Prison is not going to take responsibility. I'm going to spend the rest of my life in a six-by-eight cell. It's 39 years old. You know, I tell people all the time, I've felt every emotion in life from it. ecstasy, right down, the grief, everything in between. I've lived a full life. That night,

I experienced hopelessness, the worst feeling you could ever have. I was scared, not at the jail time, of the loss of everything that was dear to me. I was done. I said, it's over. You know, a prison guard came by myself, and he looked in, he said, Francis, you don't look good. I said, get away from me, man. I don't want to see any of you guys tonight. I chased him away. The man comes back a minute later. He pushes something through the slot on the door, it falls on the floor, It was a Bible. Eric, I picked up the Bible, and I threw it against the cinder block wall. It was like everything came out of me.

I was a mess that night. And then I picked up the Bible about a minute later. I said, you know what, it's only me and God in the cell. I believed in God. I just had no relationship with him. And I looked up at that cement ceiling, and I said, you know what, God, if you're up there, you've got to help me. I need something to make me feel better.

Do something for me. I'm holding the book, and I didn't know where to start with the Bible. You know, I live in Catholic school. You read the catechism. You don't read the Bible, you know, and it just opens up to the book of Proverbs. And I start reading Proverbs, and I'm just blown away by the brilliance of Solomon, which meant a lot to me because, you know, I'm an analytical guy, and I'm kind of a cynical guy. You grow up on a street. You test everything.

I'm reading Solomon. I'm saying, wow, this guy's brilliant. And then I came to a verse that I can't explain it, Eric, it just stopped me cold. And it was Proverbs 167, which says, when a man's ways are pleasing to the Lord, even his enemies are at peace with him. Now, for some reason, the enemies part got me first because I had nothing but enemies. And then I got convicted because I was laying on a cot and I was blaming God because, yeah, I accepted Christ. My mother-in-law, I accept Christ, I'll forgive you sins.

For me, it was like confession. Right. You know, and I'm not knocking confession. I'm just saying, that's how it felt. But I didn't have a relationship with the Lord. All right. To hear the rest of the story, folks, you got to go to episode two. We're going to be back another hour with Michael Francie's talking about God and the mob.

Thanks for listening.