The Eric Metaxas Show - Michael Franzese (Encore Continued)

Episode Date: July 19, 2023

Former New York mob boss Michael Franzese shares the amazing story of how his life was changed. 

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. It's the show about everything. And we do mean everything. Yes, even that. Yep, that too.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely that. Now, here's everything that you want in a host, Eric Mattaxas. This is the Airman Taxes Show. In this show, we're going to continue the conversation with Michael Francie's, who, in case you weren't listening to the last show. If you didn't listen to the last show, you need to go back and listen to the last show. But, you know, now you're stuck. You're listening to this show. So let me sum it up for you.

Michael Franciez grew up as the son of the notorious underboss of New York's Colombo Crime Family. he was deep in the life of the mob, La Cosa Nostra, as he calls it. And we're hearing his story. It is just an amazing story. Michael, just a joy to get to hear you tell your story to my audience. Thanks for being with us. We're going to continue. I mean, the last, where we left off, you know, you're talking about falling in love with your wife.

You're talking about you get put in prison. and then you finally hit bottom. So I want to go back to this is the night. This is in the 80s. What year was this? No, this was actually 91. Oh, this is 91 now because you were in and then he got out and then you went back in. Okay.

But you just said that you violated parole and they got everything. They had been waiting for this moment. The feds had been waiting to get you and now they got you. Everything is taken away from you. your wife doesn't have a penny. They put you in a six by eight cell. And you just said you experienced for the first time in your life genuine hopelessness. This is, there's nothing.

So take us back. You said a guard shoves a Bible into. Now, this is pretty freaky. You don't expect this story that the guard is throwing a Bible. He sees that you're so low, I guess. Is that what you think of what happened? Well, yeah, because he came by and looked. in on me, you know, and he said, are you okay? You don't look good because I'm laying on the

cotton. And I said, get away from me, man. I don't want to see you guys. But I mean, who looks good in a six by eight cell? What's he, what, that's interesting. Well, I don't know. Maybe I didn't look, I really didn't look good in his opinion. You know, he was, that's his job to look in on the inmates. So, um, I just chased him away. And he came back with a minute later with a Bible and push it through the slot on the door. You know, the amazing thing, Eric, I don't, I don't know who this guard is. I didn't even see his face, really. because I'm in a cell. And I never seen him again, never heard anything about him.

But that Bible went through the door. And like I said, I picked it up, slammed it against the wall because I was just, I didn't want to hear about God, you know, at all. And then I picked it up a minute later because I just said there's only me and God in the cell. And I had nothing but enemies on both sides of the law. I mean, I was an outcast. Yeah, you don't even have friends in the mom. at this point.

No. That they're your enemy because just to sum up from the previous show, you'd been trying to get out of the life. And so you have your, the people in the mob are trying to kill you. I mean, you were just sharing with that that before you were, you violated your parole, that you're fearing for your life. And the feds are moving you around saying you're going to be killed. Well, yeah, you know, you walk away from that life.

Everybody thought I was going to become a major witness. They were trying to put me in the program. The feds did me dirty, and I got to say that. They put my name on the witness list of a number of trials that were coming up in New York. So even though I was sending word back through the prison, you know, courier system that we have, then I'm not going to hurt anybody. But all of a sudden, all the lawyers are getting my name in discovery on all these trials. Unbelievable.

Now, is this in your book? It is in my book. And what's the book? It's called Blood Covenant. Okay. I just want to think the last show, we didn't talk about it. Your book on this subject is Blood Covenant, Michael Francie's, and then you also have a movie God the Father. Yes.

We didn't mention that either in the previous show. What is that? Let's mention that before we go on with the story. Well, Blood Covenant's my autobiography, and God the Father is a documentary feature based upon my life. And I tell the whole story, and it's a very unique movie because we combine a lot of elements to tell this story. There's stock footage. There's interviews with me and my family. and law enforcement.

We have some dance in the movie because my wife is a dancer. Her story is she got through all of this, number one, through her faith in God, and number two, through her love of dance, because that's what kept her occupied all the time I was away. And so we have very unique elements, but the impact of the movie has been tremendous because, Eric, bottom line on this, I can't be all over the world, but my story, God has blessed people hearing my story and what he's done in my life. So we try to use ways to get it out there. And how can this, if people want to see this movie, God the Father,

did they have to book it for a theater? It's actually playing in theaters now across the country, select theaters, churches, you know, are booking it in their church. What's the website? What's the website? It's God the Father. Dot movie. That's pretty good.

God the Father dot movie and the book is Blood Covenant. All right. So let's go back to the story. So you have enemies in the mob because they, believe, this is amazing, this piece of the story, that you're saying that the feds put your name out as a witness, figuring, I guess, that they're going to get you to join the witness protection. You've got no place to go except to exceed to their demand that you join the witness protection

program. You still refuse to join. I refused. It wasn't the way I was going to live. And they actually then, while I was on parole, and this is why I believe I was violated, Eric, they picked me up and they brought me into New Jersey. I was on parole, so I had to go with them. And they were going to have me testify in a big trial against a fellow by the name of John Riggie,

who was the boss of the Jersey family and a very close friend of mine. And he and I had a deal on windows coming into New York. Every window that came into New York in any of the buildings, they had to pay us a tariff on. And John and I were partners in that deal. So you call it a tariff? It was a tariff for tax. That's a very nice term. It was a mob tax, I guess I'd call it.

But when I went to trial in the Giuliani case and was acquitted, one of my co-defendants was convicted. They gave him 30 years, and he became an informant. So he told the feds that Riggie and I were partners. So they brought me in to testify, and they told me, you know, we're going to indict you for perjury, if you lie, and we're going to put you on the stand. Well, they had me there for three hours, and bottom line, I refused to testify. They brought me back out to California within two weeks.

I was violated on my parole. So they were really upset with me. So they put me back in. And, you know, everybody's against me. I got the feds against me because I wouldn't cooperate. I got the street against me because I had turned my back on that life. My father went along with a contract on my life, according to them. Your father went along with a contract.

He felt he had to do that. Yeah, you know, Eric, I understand. When somebody goes bad in that life, becomes an infringe. the person that proposed them or brought them in in some ways is responsible so my father i got to say this my father loves his kids and he loves me but this life was number one for him and um i understood i wasn't even mad at him because i understood being part of that life but so i have no way to turn i'm done and it was a tough night i'll be honest with you and when i picked up that bible and came to that verse that i spoke about earlier yeah what was the verse again for folks

Proverbs 167. It says, when a man's ways are pleasing to the Lord, even his enemies were at peace with him. You know, for some reason, you know, since my transformation, I would say, you know, people always use the term that we change, Christians change. We don't change. We're transformed from the inside out when we have a relationship with Jesus. It's not us changing. It's Jesus transforming us.

Well, throughout, you know, when I look back, I almost forgot my thought, I really, I really for the first time the Holy Spirit spoke to my heart that I listened because I was desperate. Now, I'd be honest you know, I've never seen God in a dream. I don't have a, you know, he doesn't speak to me audibly. I don't have any of those gifts.

I believe some people do. I don't. But he speaks to my heart because I have a relationship with him now. And that verse was the first time that he spoke to me that I listened. Why? I was desperate. You know? The enemy's part got me. I had nothing but enemies. And then it kind of

flip me back to say, you know, if you always were pleasing to me, I can take care of your enemies. That's how I interpreted that verse. But isn't that amazing that God could put that in front of your eyes at your most hopeless, you're in the six by eight cell, and you read Proverbs. I mean, you're not somebody who reads a Bible, but you're so desperate. And you read that line, and you say, okay, there is potentially hope. Yeah. There might be a way out. It's unbelievable. We're going to be back, folks, talking to Michael Francie's. The book is Blood Covenant. it's all in there. Blood Covenant.

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Hey there, folks. It's here with Taksa show. We're talking to Michael Frenzis about his life in the mob and his life with God. It's an unbelievable story. Michael, just so glad to have you with us. Thank you. Thank you. So you're at the bottom of the bottom.

And suddenly this guard gives you this Bible. And this verse, you said that this is the first time ever that it wasn't just, you know, external. Suddenly you feel this is real, God is speaking. So what happens at this moment? Well, I read that verse, and it caused me to read on a little bit more. You know, I was very intrigued with the book of Proverbs. I tell people all the time, I don't care what faith you are. Proverbs is a brilliant book.

Solomon was brilliant. And I'm reading it, and then I came to a verse that really got me. and it was Proverbs chapter 3 verses 5 and 6 and it says trust in the Lord with all your heart lean not on your own understanding in all of your ways acknowledge him and this is the verse that's most significant this part of it because I looked up the translation he will not he can or he might he will make your path straight okay so now when I got that verse I didn't say well thank you Lord for this. I got a little bit upset because I said, wait a second, God. I'm like talking to God in a cell. I said, I trusted my father more than anything. I followed him blindly into this life, really.

I said, I took a blood oath to La Cosa Nostra. I gave my life up twice. And look where it got me. I said, I can't do this the third time. My mother and law and my wife have been preaching to me, God and all this. Yeah, great, but I do believe in eternity. This might be my eternity while I'm on earth to spend the rest of my life in the six-bay-age cell. But later on, I want to know where I'm going. If you really are God, if this Bible is written by men, to me, it's the blueprint for our life, okay, inspired by God. And if Jesus really is my risen savior, I said, God, you got to do more than tell me, you got to show me. And, you know, I really challenged God that night. I'll tell you what happened. The, I just got to stop. Have you ever been before that night talking to

God? Never. This is it. So you hit bottom and now you're having a conversation with God. Never talk to God. Never, you know, I mean, I listened to my mother-in-law and my wife and yeah, it's great and, you know, maybe I'll become a Christian, you know, but it wasn't serious. But that night it was serious. And what happened is they were going to indict me on another racketeering case. It fell apart. They never indicted me. They gave me four years on the parole violation, which was the maximum. I spent 35 more months and 13 days in prison, 29 months and seven days in that hole. Wait a minute.

29 months in the 6x8 cell. And 7 days. You add the days. 6 by 8 cell, 24-7, me and God. 24-7, you don't get an hour? You get 2 hours a week to take a shower. They're supposed to let you

go out in the yard, which is a fence and, you know, a little place by you're by yourself. If you want to go out and take a walk and get some fresh air. But you're basically locked down 24-7. So you have no human contact? No human.

Well, God pushes food through the door, and, you know, once a week if your wife can make it, you get a visit, but she couldn't always make it there. So this is, I mean, a lot of people would describe this as hell. I mean, this is horrible. You know, it's amazing that you say that, because through that experience, God gave me a healthy fear of hell. I said, if this is what hell is like, but for all of eternity are much worse, I don't want any part of this. He gave me

a healthy fear of hell, but understand this, Eric. I was so far the other way. I was so far ingrained in that life. It had to be drastic to not only change my heart, but to transform my mind. It's a process. You know, I tell people, we're not all as fortunate as Paul. We're

driving in our car. Jesus speaks to us out of the sky, knocks us out, and we go to talk. Next day, we're preaching the gospel. A lot of us go through this process to break us from where we were before. So, and I'll tell you this, I saw a lot of people in that hole, I realized we weren't meant to be solo creatures. We were meant to be social because a lot of guys in that situation didn't do well. You know, you're locked up.

You're like an animal, basically. Don't let anybody tell you any different. That's how it is. You know, they show these movies about guys in prisons. It's all nonsense. Prison is prison. And during that time, I read my Bible inside out and upside down. If you see my prison Bible, it's more of my notes on there than there is scripture.

I had my wife send me in several hundred books on every faith. I wanted to read everything. I'm extremely into apologetics. It's my nature, five trials, evidence, everything. And I listened to Greg Lorry. I had a Sony Walkman. Remember those antique things we had the Sony Walkman? With the cassette tapes?

Yeah, well, no, he had a radio show. Oh, you listened to Greg's show. Great show. Okay, but you know what? I didn't say this in our first show. Shame on me. Unless maybe you brought it up, I forgot. Greg Lorry, when I spoke at his church in California, he was the one that told me about you.

I just want to be clear that if it weren't for Greg Lurie, my new friend, I wouldn't know about you, Michael Frens. And so when he told me, I said, wow, this is incredible that this guy came to faith. I got to get him on the program. But Greg, Lori, so you're telling me that you were listening to his programs on the radio. I never heard of Greg before. And I started listening to him as I'm reading scripture. and I tell people all the time, Greg had such an impact on me, the way he interpreted scripture, just that soothing voice, I can't explain it. When I got out of prison, I said, I got to meet this guy because he doesn't realize what he did for me while I'm in the hole.

And I had to tell him. I said, Greg, you don't know what an impact you have, you know, and you never realize, you know, whose lives can be changed just from the person that's listening to you. So I came out of there after that three years, believing with all my heart. that the Bible was God's word and that Jesus was my risen savior. After three years. Three years in the whole. Unbelievable. And I want people understand this.

You know, my faith, I tested my faith. I challenged God. I made him prove it to me. But I also did the work. I had an open and willing heart and an open, willing mind because I had nothing but time on my hands. And he showed me. He showed me.

So, you know, he first appealed to my intellect, And then it went down into my heart. So when I get out, I had no clue what I was going to do, Eric. I never even thought of the ministry. It was the furthest thing from my mind. I'm trying to figure, how do I get my life repaired again? Get my wife and kids in order to start to make some money. I had no idea what I was going to do.

So this is 94. You get out? 95. Yes. So you get out. And you're safe to say you're a changed person now. I mean, you cannot get out in 95 after living through what you just went through. Yeah.

And, you know, I want people understand. A lot of times people think, you know, Christian, those sticks in the mud and all this kind of stuff. I tell people all the time, I didn't get a lobotomy when I came to Christ. I didn't forget all the stuff I did on the street. And, you know, you could be tempted to do the same things again. But the difference in me this time was, you know what, I can't do those things. I'm going to put my family in trouble again.

I'm going to go against the principles that God has showed me in these last three years. I've got to try to figure this out, you know. And that's what happens when this transformation comes inside. You develop a conscience, a Jesus conscience. Now, you know, we may sin sometimes, but we're certainly going to be a lot better. And that's why I try to tell people, you know. We're not holy rollers, so to speak. But, you know, it is a transformation that you go through because now you have a conscience.

You're held accountable. It means something to you. And the way I got into the ministry is another four-hour story here, the way it happened. I never even thought of this. Now, when you say the ministry, you mean that you go around and you tell your story to bring glory to God to help people understand that even they can get help in their hopeless situations. I'm not a pastor. No.

I'm not clergy in any way. But I feel obligated to go out and share my story because, and I tell people this, Eric, I'm not trying to turn anybody into a Christian. Just like you said in the beginning of one of the shows, I don't look to do that. I don't want to impose my faith on anyone. But I think we're obligated to share. And the reason being is because I'm at front of thousands of people on a monthly basis. I can't even begin to tell you in these last three years the amount of discouragement and despair in the hearts and minds of people. I don't care what people say, this is not our grandfather's America anymore.

People are struggling and they need hope and they need encouragement. And through my story, you know, somebody that had found it in Jesus Christ, they can also. And that's the ministry. It's just sharing. So you used to spend a lot of time now. talking to people, the groups. Well, yeah, my brother-in-law and I, and, you know, there's a family operation. My wife's brother is my road manager without him.

This guy. This guy, Dean Garcia. He doesn't have a microphone, so we could say whatever we want. But he's my buddy, and, you know, he keeps everything in order for me. Okay. We're in the midst of a 13-day, seven-city, you know, 10-engagement run here, where we're just sharing the gospel with everybody and anybody. And we do a lot of events like this.

I want to, so if people, want to find you. Your website is Michael Francie's.com, but how do we spell Francie's? F-R-A-N-Z-E-S-E-E-S-E-E-D-C-C-R-A-N-E-S-E-E-R-A-N-E-R-A-N-E-R-A-R-E-R-A-M-A-R-R-E-R-E-R-E-R-E-M-A-M-A-R-M-A-M-R-A-M-R-A-M-A-R-R-E-R-R-E-R-R-E-R-R-E-R-R-E-R-R-E-R-R-E-R-R-R-E-R-R-S-R-R-R-R-R-R-R-S-R-R tape letters ripping back the curtain on evil. Pastor Jack Hibb says the movie captures what is going on today in America. Jim Caviesel, who played Jesus and the Passion of the Christ, loves this movie so much. He watched it three times in just five days and says it's one of the most important films of the last decade. Matt Walsh, the filmmaker behind what is a woman, calls it excellent.

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Uh, how do you, uh, I mean, what determines where you speak or you, I mean, I would, I would assume you would speak a fair amount in prisons because people are going to have an open ear to your story in particular, but you really speak everywhere. Yeah, I do. And, you know, amazing how this happened, Eric. I was finishing up my prison sentence. I had six months to go. And they let me out of the hole finally, right, in the last six months. And I'm walking to track one day in Lompoc Federal Prison. I get a call to go into the warden's office. I go there, and there's two FBI agents in there. And I said, oh, here we go again. FBI's coming at me. I got six months to go. I walked out of the office.

I don't want to see them. And they go. And they go. And they go. And they go. I go. I'm call me back and they said look we have a favor of you I said guys no favors with you there's always strings attached no we got a real favor I said what's up they said well you claim you turned your life around we're going to give you an opportunity to prove it

they said all the pro leagues baseball the NFL NHL and the NBA getting together to do an anti-gambling video they they knew I had a big gambling operation on the street I had 13 14 bookmakers working for me all over the city

and Jersey and everything else. You did? Oh, yeah. And we had a lot of athletes. Just to be clear, I did not. I had very few bookmakers, never up in the double digits working for me. Go ahead. You know, we had a lot of athletes gambling with us at the time.

So they said, Mike, all the leagues are getting together, you know as well or better than anybody, the trouble or the problems we have in the leagues with gambling, with our players, our personnel, and so on and so forth. I said, so what do you want me to do? They said, well, we recommended you, you know, to, participate in this video that they're doing about gambling.

The dangers of gambling, we want you to tell firsthand why these athletes should stay away from guys like you when you were on the street and gambling. So long story short, I participate in this video. The NBA Productions produces it and they all spent like a quarter of a million dollars of leagues chipped

and they did a really good job on it. It was Pete Rose and Archleaster and I did my part. I told them all about how we used to set up athletes and blah. I get out of prison and they approach me directly and say, Mike, start speaking to our players. This video is really having an impact. They featured me throughout the whole video.

Really? And from that point, Eric, from 1996 until today, I've spoken every Major League Baseball team, every NFL team, you know, all of the NBA, I've been speaking to athletes for the last 20 years. 1998, the NCAA jumped on board. They said, Mike, you've got to take this message to our student athletes. Since then, I've spoken over 300 universities. Wait, now this message specifically with regard to gambling. Gambling, relationships that they keep, you know, how to stay out of trouble, consequences for your actions, why you've got to stay away from the bad guys on the street, why it's important who you surround yourself with, the company you keep.

We get into the whole gambling. I tell them how we're going to trap you, how we're going to make you get in trouble. I run down a whole thing. So in other words, the mob is targeting, you know, wealthy, powerful athletes? Of course. What, what, of course. I mean, I never think about this. Tell me what the...

Well, not only wealthy, powerful athletes, but student athletes, college athletes. And why? Just because they say they've got thousands of dollars to throw away? No, no, no, no. Eric, you have no idea. Remember this. It's never about winning or losing a game. It's about the point spread. You have no idea how much money can be earned, okay, if you have an athlete working with you to manipulate the point spread. That's the bottom line. To give you an edge. See this? I didn't realize where you're talking. to manipulate the point. So there are athletes.

It's just hard for me to believe in this day and age that there would be athletes. Can I tell you, it's more prevalent today than it was in my day. The reason being, in my day, you had to go to a bookmaker. There was nowhere else to go. Today, you can gamble on your phone. You would not believe how many of these student athletes have gotten themselves into serious gambling problems. Oh, a lot of money, whether it be an online gambling place or maybe a bookmaker or maybe somebody else. and the way to get out of it is by, you know, helping to manipulate the point spread.

That's it. Make a few bucks back. So you get trapped because now you can't pay the money back and I say, listen, we'd like to help you out. Here's what you need to do. You got an NBA player. Let's say you got a good college player, right? Yeah. And there's five guys on the court.

Right. You know that one guy can have a powerful impact on the game. Your favorite to win by 10. You tell a guy, listen, win by 7, win by 6. Don't blow the game. We just don't want you to cover the spread. Who's going to know? Your team is still winning.

You do that. We'll put X amount of dollars in your pocket. You're in debt. We'll pay it off. Don't worry about it. Nobody's going to know anything. This is right out of Requiem for a heavy weight. Unbelievable.

Unbelievable. So you're speaking to athletes all over the country. Pastor of my church who married us. Dr. Myr-Tel has passed on now. I love the man. He comes to me shortly after. He says, Mike, you've got a great story. would you please give you a testimony to the church?

Eric, I didn't even know a testimony. I thought you did that from a witness thing. Right, what's a testimony? Right. So I did it because he was good to me, you know, and while I was in prison, he'd send me books and all of that. And before you know what, that's catching on. And now I'm asked to tell my story in various churches.

Before you know, you start appearing on big radio programs. Anything can happen. That's it. And then, you know, now they've done five documentaries on me. They're playing them all the time. They've got a big series on me. in Netflix. I didn't know this.

Oh, yeah. Wait a minute. What's the name of the series on Netflix? It's Inside the American Mob. It's a six-part series. I'm in the first two. I like to do my homework before the interviews. I'm going to have to do the homework after the interview and have you back for more interviews.

We're going to be right back, folks, talking to Michael Francie's. The book is Blood Covenant. Folks, this is here from Texas show talking to Michael Francie's about The Mob and God. And the book is Blood Covenant. The movie is God the Father. And you can go to Michael Francie's.com. That's Z-E-E-S-E-Fransees.com.

Where are we going with this? There's so much to cover. You wanted to talk about something just now. Yeah, Eric, I want people to understand the magnitude of what the Lord has done in my life. Not what I've done, but what the Lord has done in my life. And people really need to understand this. This was a transformation of heart and mind, and I totally attribute that to my relationship with Jesus. Because, again, I walk out of life.

I didn't know how this was going to work out. There's no blueprint, you know, to get out of the mob. I mean, in this case, you're not exaggerating. Nobody had done what you did. I mean, to be at that level in the mafia and then to somehow walk away without going into the witness protection. program. Is there anybody we can think of? I can't really. No, I don't know of anybody. Honestly, you know, I mean, there's guys out there that don't get me wrong. I mean, they say they were in the mob and all of that, but look in their history, they really weren't. But, you know,

I was who I was and that's it. But I want people to understand how I only attribute my being alive here today to God's plan for my life and purpose for my life. And let me back that up. I was inducted into the mob in 1975, Halloween night, 41 years ago this past Halloween. There was six of us that took the blow to oath that night. I'm the only one alive today. The other five were all murdered. Not one of them died in natural causes. Cut to I get out of prison in 1995. Life magazine, quote, writes this huge story on me, if he holds to what he has promised, who will Mark the first time a high-ranking member of the mafia will publicly walk away from his past and live. 1995.

Ed McDonald, he was the head of the organized crime strike force in Brooklyn. He was Henry Hill's prosecutor, my prosecutor. He went on national TV and he said, quote, I wouldn't want to be in Michael Franzisa's shoes. I don't think his life expectancy is very substantial. Told her the world, I'm going to get killed. Bernie Welsh, FBI agent, legendary mob-busting FBI agent, gets on the podium right after at. Quote, Franzis will get whacked. That was in

1995. Okay? Cut to, 1986. Fortune Magazine. Fifty biggest and most powerful mob bosses in the country. Huge article. And they featured six of us. I was one of the six. This was back in 86. This was 86. It was a huge article. I was in prison at the time.

And they actually had a chart with the 50 of us on there. Quarter of rank, and wealth and power. I was number 18. Youngest Sky in a list, five behind Gotti. Eric always say, don't ask me how they make a list like that. They didn't ask for our tax returns, right? Sold a lot of magazines. It was silly. Right. But here's what's not silly in context of where my life is now.

Out of that list of 50, 30 years later, 46 are dead. Three of them are doing life in prison without parole. And I'm here because I believe God had a different plan and a purpose for my life. And if you see the course he's navigated for me, there's no other explanation. Say this again. Out of 50? out of 50 on that list in 1986, 46 are dead. Most of them died in prison. Three of them, including Persico, are doing life in prison.

Carmine Persico, how old is Carmine Persico? He's in his 80s now. He's doing life in prison. So you got four left who are living. Three of them are doing life in prison, and I'm talking to the only one that is out. Alive and free. in ministry, you know, blessed with a family and children, more blessings than I ever deserve. You know, honestly, I'll tell people this, too.

I spent 20 years on the street. I should either be dead or in prison for the rest of my life. That's what I deserved. I earned that for myself, you know, and you don't get to do it. I don't get a mulligan and say, well, none of that ever happened. I'm a good guy now. I'm not a good guy. I'm a guy filled with grace because God had mercy and grace.

my life and he had a different plan for me. And this is what I try to make people understand. You know, you don't let your past be a deterrent for what God can use it for the future, but you have to clean up your act. You have to, you have to allow the Lord to work through your life. One of the most difficult things for me, Eric, was becoming a follower and not trying to pave my own way all the time. I was going to say, if ever that would make sense to me, it would make sense in your case. You were not somebody who was going to let things happen to him. You were told that this is the way to live your life. This is you're crazy to do it any other way. And the tough part is you were very good at it. I was. And, you know, the time I spent in prison,

I tell people, I hated every minute that I was in there. But I realized that had I not been in that situation, I would have never accepted Christ on the street. I was too much a product of that life. Sometimes we have to go through these struggles before we pay attention to God. And another thing I had to make clear, God didn't put me in that jail cell. God doesn't cause us to go through troubles. These are consequences of our actions. Sometimes they're just consequences of the world we live in. But God uses those situations to get our attention. Isn't it interesting how everybody's hell, everybody's six by eight cell is different, right? My six by eight cell was actually a nine by 12 bedroom in my parents' house. I moved back in

with my parents at age 24. That's what God needed to get my attention. It's a little different. I'm laughing because it's funny, but it's everybody's life and everybody's story is different. And God knows where he has to take us to get our attention. Yeah, and you don't have to be in prison to be in prison. You can be trapped as a free person in your own situation. Well, of course. But the point, that's the point is that yours is the kind of classic story, but everybody has that six by eight place of total hopelessness where they finally say.

say, all right, I got nothing else. God, if you're real, let's go. Let's give it a try. And that happened to you, 1991. Unbelievable. And, you know, who would have thought? I certainly would have it. Nobody would have thought. Well, that's why I wanted to have you on. Nobody thinks that somebody in the New York mob can become a born-again follower of Jesus Christ. That's not, these things don't, that doesn't happen. Yeah, and you know, Eric, you know, my wife says to me, Michael, you're a miracle. And I give her that leeway because she went through so much with me. Right.

But I don't believe I'm a miracle, and I'll tell you why. You're going to have to stick around, folks. You're going to say, now I'm dying to know. See, I was going to say, I want to hear it before we go to the break. But when we come back from the break, folks, I'm talking to Michael Francie's. The book is Blood Covenant. I think you want to copy. The movie is God the Father.

And the website is Michael Franciez.com. You can reach us at Metaxus Talk. We'll be right back. Hey folks, it's Eric Metaxis show. I know country and western music is very big with the wise guys. I don't want you to know that. We're not going to get into that right now. Michael, just a few minutes left in this hour.

First of all, you were just saying that you kind of get into this thing with your wife and you say that your life is not a miracle or what do you mean by that? Well, you know, I believe in miracles. Yeah. I believe I've seen terminally ill persons, you know, that the doctor says, wrap it up. You're ready to go and people pray for him and her. and they're miraculously cured.

And I think childbirth is a miracle. Sometimes we don't realize childbirth is amazing. But I'm not a miracle. I believe that at some point, I just became obedient to God's word and allowed him to work in life. So I want people to understand that. You don't need a miraculous thing to happen.

Okay, now I understand what you're saying. So I will disagree with you, if you promise not to shoot me. Let me disagree with you. I wrote a book on miracles. And what you're saying is not wrong, but just to clarify, actually, for somebody like you to suddenly open your heart to God, to be willing to be obedient,

people would say there's only one way that happens. That's a miracle, right? Because it didn't come from you. You were brought to that place by God. So God miraculously maneuvers you to a place where you say, uncle, right? But what you're saying, which needs to be clarified also, because you're right, is that the point is that God is in the business of doing miracles with every, everybody and it's not always the way we think miracles happen it's not thunder and lightning it's not what it's just you

open your heart being open and and and and so i just wanted to clarify i'm not really correcting because what you say is exactly right but that's but that's important for people understand is that this is for you this is not just for a few special people this is for everybody and anybody who is willing to uh you know to to open to open their hearts now we got a couple seconds here seconds here before we go. I want to do hour three with you, but in this hour, two minutes left, what are you doing right now? Speaking all over the country, actually all over the world. You know, in the last three years, God has expanded this ministry. I've been to Singapore, Malaysia, United Kingdom, Australia, Bulgaria, Israel. I'm going to China. I'm going to South Africa, all to spread

the gospel, tell the story. I've done five or six documentaries that seem to be playing all the time on the cable networks. I don't get royalties, but they're playing. And I got one on Netflix. They're making a major movie about my life based upon this book, you know, a big movie. Blood Covenant. Blood Covenant. And who is making this? It's going to be with a major studio film. Right. I'm represented by, you know, one of the big houses out in California. And they're now, yeah, and they're now packaging this film and they're talking about A-list stars and everything. I waited 20 years to do this because nobody really wanted to tell the film. faith story. They wanted to make another goodfellas, and I wasn't into that.

So they're making the faith story. It's part of the script, and I'm happy. I mean, it's a mob story, but... Not that we can't appreciate goodfellas, but that's not exactly glorifying to God. Exactly. Go get your shine box. That's my favorite line. Go get your shine box. That's like it sums it up. It's so interesting because the fascination with the mob is so huge. So that's why to hear that you turn your life over to God in this way. I mean, this is an astounding story. story. So I want to thank you for you. We're out of time, but we're going to have you back ASAP. Michael, thank you. And thanks for having me, Eric.