The Eric Metaxas Show - Michael Franzese (Encore Continued p.3)

Episode Date: July 21, 2023

Former New York mob boss Michael Franzese shares the amazing story of how his life was changed. 

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. investments.com. Come to the Eric Mataxis show. They say it's a thin line between love and hate, but we're working every day to thicken that line, or at least to make it a double or triple line. Now here's your line jumping host, Eric Mattaxas.

Hey, that folks, welcome to the Airquimtaxas show. I'm not here. Chris, I'm not here. It seems like you're here. Well, it seems like I'm here now, but when we air this, I will not be here. I will be away far, far away. I'm going to Ultima Thule. Do you know what that is?

Because I don't, but the captain of the ship knows, and he's taking us to Ultimathul. Wow. Sounds like you made up that name. Yeah. Is it a real place? I think it's mythical. Yeah. But anyway, no, but we thought we would pre-record a,

segment, which that's this segment right now, because people write us letters and things, and I thought, some of which we can share. Some of which we can share. So I wanted to read this one. Someone wrote, well, we've got a few here, Eric, that are kind of cool. And so I thought, let me, let me read them. So this one says, this is from Torrey. It's, well, it says, hello, Eric. I read your biography of Dietrich Bonhofer a few years back. It may be one of the most impactful books I've read, and you are in serious company among Thomas Sol, Wendell Berry, and of course Dostoevsky. Of course, Dostoevsky. Who wouldn't compare me in my writings to Dostoevsky? Sure. But seriously, I read something like this, and I just say, you know, because I joke around and I try to be light, but that's, that really

means a lot to me that somebody would read my Bonhoeffer book and put it in, that's high cotton. For context, this person writes, Tori writes, I was raised in a small town of mostly German Americans in Wisconsin, and my high school managed to avoid studying World War II during history classes. Now, that is interesting because the shame, it's why I wrote the Bonhofer book. As a German, your shame for the Holocaust for what happened, you're trying to process that, And so in a sense, I wrote my book to help Germans and others understand that there were many good Germans. I was going to title the book, actually, The Good German. Because I thought to myself, nobody really talks about the fact that there were Germans like Bonhofer who stood up in the face of evil, who spoke out for the Jews.

It really, I felt it was a story that needed to be told, and that's why I wrote it. But it's interesting that Tori writes that, you know, growing up in Wisconsin, among so many German Americans, they didn't even study World War II. She writes, even in the 70s, 1970s, the subject was too raw. In the past few years, I felt a profound sense that Bonhofer's story was pressing on us, on our culture. It felt as if you wrote letter to the American Church, that's the new book, in response to my own yearning. Thank you, and may the peace and power of God's presence be with you always, Tori. So we get a lot of letters, and we don't get to read all of them.

But it just means a lot to me. And I do think that I want to say that letter to the American church, I probably said this before, but when I was writing the Bonhoeffer book, this is amazing, it's 2008. I had no clue what I would discover. So as I'm writing the story of what happened to Germany, I'm kind of like smelling the future. Like I'm thinking this, I feel like this could happen in America. Because the church during his time, they didn't really respond in a... Well, they didn't understand what was happening, and therefore they didn't do what could have been done to change things.

Right, right. So I kind of felt like I could sort of see this happening in America, and I felt it a little bit when I was writing the book. But in recent years, it's become really clear to me that, oh, yeah, that's exactly what is happening now. People want to know how evil took over in Germany was because of the silence of the German church. And often it was the German church good people who felt like the smart thing to do is to be silent. And they were wrong, but it doesn't mean that they were evil, but they were complicit with evil. At the end of the day, they were very, very wrong. At the end of the day, they were complicit if they didn't repent.

And so I wrote a letter to the American church, kind of like what this woman, Tori, is saying, that it's a, you could feel that the Bonhofer story, was becoming our story in America. And so I just felt, I talked about on the Jordan Peterson podcast and in many other places, I've never, ever, ever felt God calling me to write a book. Now, to some people that sounds loony, I don't know what to tell you, but it does feel to me like I had never felt, I had never felt that feeling before that I've got to write this in obedience to God, because this is happening now and I need to write this.

and I need to reach the Christians and the Christian leaders that are capable of being reached. Some are not. Some have just somehow tuned this out permanently. They're doing their own thing. Yeah. We also get a letter which is asking a question. So I'm going to read this if we have the time. This is about the concept of women pastors.

It says, Eric, recently the Southern Baptist Convention removed Saddleback Church from fellowship because Rick Warren ordained a woman pastor. Next year, the SBC Convention will move to exclude from fellowship all Southern Baptist churches that have women pastors. They're using the scripture 1st Timothy Chapter 3 to say that being a pastor is limited to men. It seems to me that God can call whomever to do anything. Paul wrote Timothy within the context of a patriarchal society.

What's your position on this issue? Thank you. and I think the name of the person who wrote this is Ivan. Well, this is a complicated one for me. I don't know what I think about this. I don't have really, really firm views on this subject. When somebody says, it seems to me, that God can call whomever to do anything. That's really vague.

I don't know what that means. God cannot call a man to give birth. There are certain fixities in what we call reality. so to say that God can call someone to do anything, it's just too vague for me. I don't know what that means. Whether women can be ordained as pastors, I speak at churches where they have the husband and his wife or pastors,

so-and-so and so-and-so. And I don't have a particular problem with that, but what I find interesting is the idea where people get upset when somebody does have a view on it and they just say, well, that's not right. Like, you should, in other words, if the Southern Baptist Convention has a fixed view on this, you don't need to be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention,

but if you want to be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention, you have to go along with their rules, and don't be shocked if they say, if you break our rules, you can no longer be a part of the club, because those are the rules of the club, and it's the same thing with the Catholic Church. You know, you've got people angry about Catholic time. It's like, look, the doctrine is the doctrine.

and if you don't like it, you don't have to be a member of that that denomination. So I'm always, because I don't know what I think about this. I mean, I feel like I can see both sides of it. And so I've never really been clear on it. It's not a deal breaker for me. And I think it all depends on what one means by being a pastor, because obviously women can do ministry.

And so what are the limits of that? and how does that work? I don't know. I don't know. But it's interesting because there was another church that's, I think it's called Elevate. It's, I think, Ferdick, Steve Ferdick is the pastor, whatever. They're in North Carolina. And they recently, I read, had decided to leave the Southern Baptist Convention over this issue

because they don't like this issue of, you know, that they're not able to have a woman pastor. And I think, from what I am. know of that church, I believe it's Elevate, but it's in Charlotte, North Carolina, where I was recently. But I think some of these churches are just leaning woke. And this is what I talk about

in Letter to the American Church. And so they're using this thing of ordaining women as an excuse to kind of kick out of the Southern Baptist Convention. But I just think that this church elevate, which is a huge church in Charlotte,

I think they're basically going woke. I think Saddleback is basically going woke. The new pastor of Saddleback who replaced Rick Warren, put some stuff online recently, so there were some comments put online. I was shocked. I was absolutely shocked. And so I think a lot of these evangelical churches are leaning woke or they're being silent in the face of evil. They're trying to be hip, trying to go with the crowd, trying to go with the culture.

That's not God's calling on the church. It's why I wrote my book letter to the American church. So I think that's the real issue here. that's the deeper issue and they're using the women's ordainment thing to kind of, you know, as an excuse. But the reality is that they kind of want to do their own thing. And I'm not cool with that, man. Dig. Thanks for listening.

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with a few clicks, visit LegacyPMinvestments.com. To get started, you're going to love this free new tool that they've added. Please go check it out today. That's LegacyPMinvestments.com. Hey there, folks. This Eric Metax's show, as promised. We are continuing the conversation with Michael Francie. Michael Franciez has a book out called Blood Covenant.

The life story, the subtitle is he quit the mob and lived. And not only did he lived, but he came into the studio, and here he is right now. Welcome to the program, Michael. Good to be here. Now, I know the wise guys are big into Fleetwood Mac, right or wrong. Absolutely. Right? And into Leonard Skinner.

I know God he was big into Leonard Skinner. It's so funny because the juxtaposition, one of the things that I think so many people love about mafia movies in that world is it's like it's its own genre. you're entering a world that is self-contained. It doesn't bump up the world outside of it, right? So when you watch these movies, you're entering a whole world. The music, the clothes, everything is like it's its own world. And there's something magical about that because when you're watching it in a movie, you're not aware of the ugliness that the, you know.

It's true. And, you know, Eric, I always say God is brilliant in giving me this platform because in traveling around the world, I never realized when I was part of that. life, just how intriguing it is to people outside of it. But Singapore, Malaysia. I didn't know this. I was going to ask you when you mentioned this on the last show. I said, do they know anything about the New York mob in these countries? Okay, here's a deal. I just finished. It was a paid, ticketed event, rather, in Singapore, right? Maybe 2,000 people in the audience. My host that brought me in, they said, Mike, we promised a Q&A afterwards, but, you know, Singaporeans don't ask questions.

They're very reserved. And so I said, hey, great, we'll go home early. I go out there. We were there two and a half hours with questions. Where's Jimmy Hoffa buried? Questions about Godi. In Singapore, they're asking about Gotti? Yes. You know, I'm not in Singapore, but I would like to know, where's Junior Gotti? He just got in trouble. You shouldn't, you don't need to talk about this stuff now because we're going to, but it is, people are fascinated. I do want to mention this. I know the Gotti family very well, and, you know, his wife, Victoria and the girls, and, you know, we're staying in touch, and they're great people. Well, wait a minute. You know, you mean that Junior's Mr. Victoria, right?

And John's wife. His wife is also named Victoria? Yeah. Everybody's named Victoria. And they're great people. Okay. So you know these people? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. See, this is the other thing, too, is that when you think about, I mean, I think a lot of times when people think about coming to God, they don't think, there's certain people that it just doesn't enter that universe, right? When you think, for example, there are people that have ministries to prostitutes, to people in the porn industry. And you forget that those people, they're just like. everybody else. They're lost. They need God. But we tend to think about people in the mob life

as, you know, you know them. So to you, these are just people. These are just sinners. These are just people struggling to get through life and choosing the wrong path. Just like you did, just like I did in a different way. So many people, we're just doing the best we can. So to think that those people are hungry for the same thing that anybody's hungry for. They are, you know, and particularly the women. I was, I'd be honest with you. I, I'd be honest with you. I was personally offended by the show mob wives. And the reason for that, Eric, is because to depict the women in that life so unfairly and so untruthfully, I mean, it was just an absolute sham.

Yeah. I mean, the women in that life, look, you know, they fall in love with a guy. It doesn't mean that they agree with their lifestyle, you know. My wife never agreed with my lifestyle. She fell in love with me. She was against it from day one. Right. But, you know, she supported me in that life and eventually led me out of it.

You know, and these women are decent women, you know, they really are. And they take care of the kids and, you know, they take care of the family. And sometimes they get a really bad rap. And that show is terrible in that regard. And I spoke to, you know, Grubano's daughter. And I said, you know, why did you do something like this? Because we were on a show together. Right.

Well, you know, I've got to make money and all that kind of stuff. But it was personally offending to see that because they are people a lot of them, you know? A lot of them. I mean, you know what I mean. You know what I mean. I'm sorry about that. You know, I should say they're nice people. They're great people. Well, listen, you know and I know that God takes the things of this world and he can glorify himself. You know, the ugliest story, God can use it for his glory. And so when you think about the fascination with the mob life, it's just like fascination with celebrities and sports figures that when somebody like that turns their life over to God, people are interested because they say, I've followed that person.

know that where I want to know what, you know, if this could happen to them, maybe it's not so crazy. Maybe this is something that I can be open to. And that's part of, I think, the problem with the culture is that people sort of act like that God stuff's for everybody else. But when somebody like you tell your story, you know, it gets people's attention because there's such a fascination with the mob culture. I mean, the movies that have been made, by the way, it doesn't hurt that the movies made

about the mob have been some of the greatest movies made in the history of cinema. Absolutely. The Godfather one, Godfather two. Those are two of the best movies in the history of the movies. I would add Raging Bull and Goodfellas off the charts. Absolutely. I despised. Did you?

Yes. Can I tell you why? Did you see in the theater on TV? I saw it on. In the theater and 20 times on TV. Well, you lived this life. So you're different from me. I'm squeamish.

I'm not. When I see violence, it makes me angry. Because it just, and when I thought in casino, I ended up actually writing a piece really tearing Scorsese apart because I love Scorsese as a filmmaker. But I think he stepped over a line where he glorified violence. And it was in these movies. He was always on the edge of glorifying this life. And in Casino, I thought he crossed over the line. But the point is that these genius filmmakers, Scorsese Coppola, most prominently, they made some of the greatest movies.

ever made about this culture. I mean, you know, you and I probably have, you know, the Godfather and Godfather to have memorized because it's that good. It was brilliant. Listen, I remember when Godfather first came out, it even changed to a degree the mob culture because guys started to walk around differently. They were looked upon differently because it did raise the status of our life in people's minds. It really did. I remember distinctly. And I remember, you know, Joe Colombo sitting down with some of the people involved. You know, Jimmy Khan was a strong friend of ours. So is Lenny Montana, who played Luca Bratsy.

He was a good friend of mine. Luca Brazzi, the guy who played Luca Brazzi was a good friend of yours. Lenny Montana was his name. And I knew him for many of the years. He was a California guy, actually, lived out there. But we were very close until he died. When did he die? Oh, several years ago.

It had to be a long time ago. That's one of the great performances of all time. It was great. And you know, in that movie that Joe Colombo had an influence. the original script had the word mafia all over it, and Joey made sure that that was cut out. He didn't want any reference to that, yeah. Is that because he didn't want, because the term is not used in? No, because if you remember the whole Joe Colombo deal, he denied the existence of the mafia

when he had the Italian American Civil Rights League, and this movie was coming out somewhere at the same time. I was about eight years old. I don't remember these details. You are, I think your wife's my age, so you're about probably 12 years old. but you look you look very good whatever they're doing you look you look pretty you look very young for your age wife kids and God good for you good for you well I I mean we're just talking about the fascination with with mob culture and I do think in fact literally yesterday I read an interview with

Francis Ford Coppola he wrote he just came out with like a coffee table book about the making of the godfather and he was interviewed you know when he when do you so I just read this interview and he that making the movie was a miserable experience for him, blah, blah, blah, blah, but he said, he was asked, what's the number one question you always got? It was that, you know, aren't you glorifying this lifestyle? And he actually conceded, and I think this is correct, that the acting was so great in those movies, Godfather One, Godfather Two, that it actually did. And because he said the people that really are in this life, you know, they're animals,

he said, you know. And I think that that's a lot of people watching it. you don't realize the violence. That's what to me is the unthinkable piece, is the violence, you know. Well, it's like I said, you know, at one point earlier that, you know, one of the horrible things about that life is that your best friend walks you in the room, you don't walk out again. You're in trouble. You don't really know it.

And it's one of the real horrors of that life, Eric. And, you know, it's something that really troubled me. You know, one thing I want people to understand, too, you know, I think God looks into our hearts. When I did things in that life, I was uncomfortable with doing them at the time, but I did him anyway. You know, I did him anyway because it's just who I was. But I really think God knows our hearts. And maybe he said, you know what, all right, this guy's doing all this stuff. But, you know, maybe there's something in there I can work with.

And I want people to understand it. I don't judge a book by its cover because I know when I did things, guys, people would have judged me very harshly. And they should have. They should have. No doubt about it. But God sees us differently. He really does. And people need to understand that.

And that's why they don't make that past be a deterrent for what God will use it for. That's exactly right. That's the worst thing that you have done can be your testimony someday if you just let God deal with it. The book is Blood Covenant. The author is Michael Francie's. The movie is God the Father. What's that website, God the Father? God the Father.

Dot movie. God the Father. Dot movie. I don't know you could get a dot movie. God the Father. Dot movie. My website is Metaxistalkis talk.com. We're talking to Michael Francie's.

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I hear something about a mob musical. Is this for real? Eric, it is. And I got to tell you, you know, long story short, the choreography. who was on the original movie Nights of the City that I produced where I met my wife. He actually introduced me to my wife. She was one of his dancers.

He and I got together again about three years ago, and he said to me, Michael, he said, I got the greatest project that I know you're going to be into. I said, well, tell me about it. He said, the history of the mob in Las Vegas set to music and dance, because he knows I love musicals, right?

That's why I'm so turned down by your music here. And so we developed this problem, project as a musical. And Eric, it is sensational. So you have developed this is not you're thinking about it, but you've developed this. It's, it's no. Where is this now? Right now, we, we just put our whole design team together. We're starting auditions here in New York and in LA next month. And we go into production, well, I say production rehearsals in January for a show to premiere in Vegas in May. And I'm actually going to be. be in the show. I'm going to narrate a little bit to get it started. We're going to have a

partnership with the mob museum. I don't know if you know about the mob museum. I have not heard about the mob museum. Well, I'll tell you what, when you go to Vegas, you have to visit the mob museum. What do you mean when I go to Vegas? Do you think I go to Vegas regularly? Do I look like the kind of a guy? Well, you're going to come now because I'm inviting you to the premiere the show. That's another story. When is it? It's going to be in May of next year. Let me write this down. May? You don't know when in May, right? Not yet, no. Seriously, this sounds amazing.

It really is. And, you know, I'm, the mob museum is great, by the way. It's actually a mob law enforcement museum, but extremely credible, amazing exhibits, very historical, terrific, right? And I'm featured in the museum as one of the guys on the 100 years of mob. Do you get a tariff for every ticket sold to the mob museum? I do not. Are you getting a piece of that action? I get no piece of it.

No. I've spoken there. Nobody listens to the program. You can be honest with me. Do you get a piece? No. No. I don't.

I honestly don't. Okay. You just gave me an idea, though. I think I should. I know. They've consulted with you. You've given them. Okay, but so this musical, I mean, this is hilarious and wonderful because I just, I love this

idea already. What is the story? I mean, it's the history of. It's the history of the mom. And mostly in Vegas, but somewhat throughout the country, we do a lot of different kind of vignettes, and we tie it into one story about the history of the monster. in Vegas and in this country. Who's going to play Mo Green?

Well, I'm not going to, I can't tell you any of that stuff here. But I will tell you this. Jeff Kutash, he's kind of like Mr. Las Vegas. He had one of the longest running shows ever in Vegas called Splash. It was at the Riviera. And it was a dance show that came out of my movie, Knights of the City. He actually took what he choreographed in the movie into Vegas and created a Vegas show out of it and lasted 21 years.

Now, who was in that movie, the one that you produced, where you met your wife? Robinson, Leon Isaac Kennedy at the time. You know, this was, it was a dance kind of rap music kind of, that was great. You know, a wonderful movie. But it was a life-changing movie for me. I mean, I met my wife. Who knew? I was going down there to produce a movie, and it ends up, you know, turning my whole

life around, basically. God's ways are not our ways, right? That's right. I mean, that's incredible. You would not have met your wife. And I don't think there are many women like your wife. This is a story. I'm looking forward to meeting her.

The next time you're in New York, we've got to get her in it. Because she, does she tell her story in a book? She does. She does. She has a book. Well, you know what? I got so tired of people asking me, how did your wife get through this? I said, would you please write a book? It took me 20 years to get her to write it, but she finally did. And she really put her heart into it. And I've been very inspiring to women. But I got to tell you, if you got her on the show, the only thing I ask you to do beforehand, I tell her now, please don't throw me under the bus, because she's very honest about everything. I said, so take it easy. A lot of people listening, you know. She's great. She's great. She sounds like the wife that God created. for you, the exact person you needed, right? No doubt. Isn't that amazing? No doubt.

Well, so you, it's interesting because people would think that, you know, you put that world behind you, but in a way, on some level, you know, you are who you are. And even though Jesus came into your life and has totally transformed you, obviously, to the point where you're talking about it wherever you go, you haven't, in other words, you haven't put it behind you in the sense that you're still. I mean, to be able to make a movie, sorry, a musical about the mob, there's a level of comfortableness that you have, that this is the world you grew up in, and that there is a kind of a romance to that world that you're not blind to that, is what I'm saying.

No, you know, understand something to, Eric. I'm a Christian from sunrise to sunrise, and I'm not going to do things that, you know, are in conflict with my faith. telling a story about the mob, it's historical. Now, we're not going to have gratuitous sex and gratuitous violence and all that stuff because that's not a... But you will have sex and violence, just not gratuitous. Right?

No, just kidding. All right, but seriously, you... That's what I'm saying is, like, to be able to merge these worlds, as you're saying, that that's an amazing thing to me, that you're able to sort of celebrate it in a fun way without glorifying it because you are... I mean, I guess the point is if you weren't a part of the show, it's different. But the point is that you are the living example that this is not a good life to go into. And so you said you're going to be doing part of the narration.

You're going to be part of it. Yeah, I mean, at least for a time, I don't know if I can tie myself to a Vegas show, but at least to get it off the ground, you know. That's why I haven't done a Vegas show. I don't want to get tied down to a Vegas show. You know, they're always trying to suck me in. But I'm just not, I'm not ready to say, yes, that's where I am. Okay, we're going to be right back talking to Michael Franz.

Seize the book is Blood Covenant, the movie God the Father. Go to God the Father. movie. Hey there folks. A little Jerry Rafferty for you. I'm talking to Michael Francie's about the mob, God, and everything else. Really, Michael, again, thank you for being with us. Just wonderful to get to know you and to get your story out because so many people, if I didn't know your story, I'm telling you, there's so many people that didn't know this story and I get so thrilled that people are getting acquainted with your story. And the fact that they can read your book, Blood Covenant, and they can watch this movie God the Father.

Now, there's nobody in that that I would know, right? This is like a kind of documentary kind of thing. Correct, yeah. Well, so getting back to this musical that you're producing, what's it called? Do you have a title? The Mob Musical. The Mob Musical. Very original.

The Mob Musical. Yeah, it's short and sweet, right? How do you tell the history? In other words, there's got to be a through line, right? What is the through line? Can you share with the... Well, it's, I mean, it's really a number of vignettes that we tie together that historically tell how the mob had its influence in Las Vegas from the beginning and how it was actually pushed out of Las Vegas. And in the meantime, I tell a little bit of my story because of the fact that I'm narrating it to begin with.

We tell some of my backstory for the credibility stuff and all of that. But it really ties together really nicely. It really does. And we show some things like, you know, people, so many people ask me, what is the oath really like that you take? Because we've seen it done in different ways. And so we depict the oath that I took Halloween night. Omerta.

Yeah, the oath of Omerta. We depict it as it actually happens, you know. And just things like that. And then some of the, you know, prominent figures in Vegas, I mean, we do talk about, you know, some of the guys that had a powerful influence. I don't want to mention all their names now. You don't want to mention Lucky Luciano. Well, Luciano did, and Bugsy Siegel, obviously.

The dogsy is the big one, the big one, yeah. He was the big one there. And Maya Lansky had, believe it or not, a big influence there. And Lefty Rosenthal was really a big guy there. Lefty Rosenthal. Not exactly Italian. That sounds Jewish. Yeah.

But, you know, they had influence there. I mean, they were very close with guys of my life, and they had an impact. I have to ask you, strange question. The people that have not left the mob, you shared with us in the first show, that your father is 99 years old. He's getting out of prison next year. Yes. He was a major underboss in the Colombo crime family.

It's an unbelievable story. What do people like your father make of your conversion and the people that were in this life and are still, they have not left this life? What do they make of you? Well, my dad initially wasn't real happy about it. But I'll tell you what happened. It was very, very interesting. You know, I've obviously tried to minister to my dad. I know that I can't push things on him.

But I had spoke at a big event where in Pennsylvania, and a chaplain came over to me. She said, you know, I'm so moved by your story with your dad. And she said, I'd like to go visit him. Do you mind? I said, by all means, I want you to go. And so it was very difficult for her to get into the prison, but she did make it in. She was very, you know, pushy. She was that kind of woman.

and she goes to see my dad. And it was amazing to me because she went in and he didn't know she was coming. I didn't prepare him. And so she said to him, I am a chaplain coming here to see you. And my father buzz up, she said, really, my son is a pastor. Now, I'm not a pastor. But in his mind. No, but the fact that he was like proud of it.

Right, that's right. It meant a lot to me that he said that. I got to. So even though he doesn't say stuff to me, I mean, it's, it. It had an impact. But, you know, I'll tell you another story ahead. I'm in Jersey, and I'm about to speak. And I'm at a church with my, with Dino actually here by the book table.

I see three guys walk in from my former life. Now, you're going to understand, I stood out in New York for 10 years, because I said, it's not a good place for me. And I don't thumb my nose in anybody's face. But now these three guys come in, dressed in suits. I recognize them. I said, oh, boy, here's my first confrontation. So what do I do?

I walk right up to them. And I said, hey, guys, how you do? doing with Shurkan. I said, what are you doing here? You know, I got that little stuff comes back. Eric, it's amazing, right? And they said, well, we came to see you. I said, well, really, what do you want to see me about? And I was a little bit confrontational. Probably shouldn't have been, but I was because things came back. Right. And we came to hear you speak, Mike. I said, okay. And about a minute later, their wives walked in behind them. So quick setup, I go up, I do my thing, share my testimony. They're sitting in the second row to my left. I don't always. I don't

always do a call to Jesus. You know, sometimes the pastor does it, sometimes. It depends on the service. For some reason, the Lord put it in my heart to do it that day. All three of them walk up and answer the altar call. Eric, I kidding. Because you realize in the movie version, they pull stuff out from under their coats, and that's when they let you have it, right?

I mean, this is incredible that these guys showed up genuinely. Because really, you know, when you're trained to think this way, you watch these movies, you know, they're like, no, no, we're just here to, you know, We're here to hear you talk. Yeah. And then, you know, that's when they kill you. But you're telling me that these guys came to hear you talk and actually went down for the alter call? They came to the altar call.

Their wives walked up behind them. One of them had tears in her eyes. And these guys, you know, don't impress me as I'm giving the altar call, they're looking down. They didn't look at me. And I know that they were convicted at that point in time. I don't mean by me. They were, God got to them. I came down afterwards, shook their hands.

hands, they still really couldn't look me in the eye. And they turned around and walked out with their wives, and their wives were squeezing my hand. So what did it mean? I never seen them after that, but it was an amazing encounter for me because I said, wow, you know, don't ever think, Mike, that you're the only guy that has gone through this so that can be saved by the Lord or can reach out to some of these guys. And that's what's showing me. You know, I believe, you know, Eric, look, people ask me all the time, Mike, what do you miss about that life? And you know what I miss? I miss. the camaraderie among the guys. You know, I got your back, you got mine.

And a lot of them were good guys just on the wrong path. Right. And I know God can reach them, the same way he reached me. I'm no better than them. Do you guys have four minutes left? Or are we going to... Four minutes? Because we got a final segment. Okay, so stick around.

Folks, I'm talking to Michael Francise. The website, Michael Francise.com. That's Z-E-S-E at the end, Franssees. And the book is Blood Cull. Covenant, the movie, God the Father. You can go to the website, godthefather. Dot movie.

This is fascinating. It was just a few more minutes with Michael Francie's. It's the Eric Mataxis show, Mataxis Talk.com. I fell into a ring of fire. Yeah, you and me both, Johnny. I'm talking to Michael Francie's. Just a couple of minutes left. Boy, does the time fly.

You were born in Brooklyn. I was born in Queens. And then our lives diverged a little bit, Michael. It is just so fascinating to hear what the God of this universe can do. Your story really is, it's an amazing story, and you realize that you have a testimony that is just, it's powerful, and you didn't choose it. See, this is what's interesting, is that the famous line, right, you know, Michael, this is the life we have chosen, right? You didn't choose the life that you're living now. God chose you.

It's real clear that he dragged you to the bottom of the bottom of the bottom. And I mean, I think that sometimes the reason God does it the way he does it is so that we can never take credit. So you can't say, I chose God. You know, he chose you and now we just follow. Oh, absolutely. I mean, in my case, I was running the other way. I was kicking and fighting coming this way all the while, but God didn't give up on me. I mean, that's the bottom line, Eric.

He just didn't give up. He had a plan and a purpose. And I tell people all the time, when God's got a plan and a purpose, nothing's going to stand in the way. He's going to fulfill it at some point. There are people listening right now. I know this, that they say, yeah, but not for me. Well, that's not true. It was never for me.

You know, Eric, at one point in time, sitting in a church, I would probably have been considered the worst person in the room because of the lifestyle that I led and the most likely person for God to reach out to. And a guy that didn't want that. You know, look, I'm living with money and power and doing everything I want. Why would I want change and be accountable to somebody? But, you know, God had a different plan. And you know what? I want people understand. I've never been more satisfied, more at peace, more happy in my life than I am now since I came to the Lord. And people need to understand, there's no, there's nothing more powerful than knowing that Jesus has your back through every struggle and challenge that you're going to face in life. Because, you know,

look, life is what it is. You know, I tell people, even when everything is good, life is a struggle. Things come out of nowhere that hit us. That's right. You have no idea what's coming on the corner. But when you can turn to God and for encouragement and hope and know that, you know, he's, he's in control eventually, it's the most peaceful, satisfying, comforting. I mean, the way I see it is that God is hope. So when somebody says it's hopeless, hopeless, hopeless, hopeless, well, it could be hopeless, but God is hope. It's not that he gives you hope. He is hope. If you turn to him, even if you're not aware of the details, he will give you hope in ways that you can't even, you know, really even dream about what he, what he has. He's done that in your life.

He's done that in my life. But I guess people forget, he wants to do that in everybody's life. That's right. Everybody, anybody listening, you say, not for me, not for me. Well, you're wrong. It's for you. Give it a try. You know, how do you get hope sitting in a six-by-eight jail cell for three years thinking that your life is over and you read a Bible and God inspires you and says, you know what,

there could be another day. There could be another plant for me. And then there is. And by the way, to be clear, because we're out of time, we're not talking about religion. We're not even talking about church. We're talking about Jesus. We're talking about the Jesus in the Bible. Michael, just tremendous to have.

you. Thank you and God bless you. Thanks, Eric. Hope to see you again. And by God's grace, you will. Folks, that is the show. Again, the book is Blood Covenant, and this is the Eric Mataxis show. Thanks for listening. Nefarious, the number one movie at SalemNow.com is available to rent today. Nefarious is like a modern-day screw tape letters ripping back the curtain on evil. Pastor Jack Hibb says the movie captures what is going on today in America.

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