The Eric Metaxas Show - Minnesota Shooting Exposes Cultural Lies | Eric Responds

Episode Date: September 4, 2025

Eric addresses the recent Minnesota shooting and connects it to the growing cultural lies being exposed across America. From media manipulation to moral confusion, Eric explains why this tragic event is part of a much larger battle over truth. Don’t miss his urgent call for discernment and courage in today’s chaotic times.

Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. Do you like your gravy thick and rich and loaded with creamy mushrooms? If no one was looking, would you chug the whole gravy boat? Chug, chug, chug, chug, chug. Stay tuned. Here comes Mr. Chugg-a-lug-lug himself, Eric Mattaxas. Hey, folks, welcome. It is Tuesday, September 2nd.

What? I think this is about... becoming a cliche. Every time I announce the date, I stop and gay. Whoa, whoa. Has death and evil entered Eden? The passage of time. It's just, it feels unnatural. It is unnatural. We were created for eternity. The passage of time, death, aging, disease. These are not part of God's plan. So there's a reason you go, what? There's a reason for that. Nonetheless, in this veil of Today is Tuesday, September 2nd. Yesterday, of course, was Monday Labor Day, the Labor Day weekend. So today, officially, this is the big announcement. Before we get to all the news, the big announcement, according to me, according to Roger Stone, according to all the people in the know, you are no longer permitted to wear Searsucker.

You are no longer permitted to wear white pants or white shoes. Please make a note of it. Don't embarrass yourself and your family. Next year, when summer begins or at least Memorial Day, you'll be able to wear Searsucker again for a season. You'll be able to wear white pants, white shoes. But as of today, nope, can't do it. Don't do it. All right. That's the most important thing.

Secondly, we've got to talk about the news. I'm talking right now I have with us on this program. Keith Junta in Connecticut and Chris Himes in New Jersey. I am in Manhattan. We were representing the tri-state area. So good morning and hello. Good morning and hello. And today, as I say, is the officially, I'm sorry, sort of unofficially the first day of the fall.

We know the fall doesn't begin to September 21st. Technically, it's still the summer. if you if you judge it that way but most people when it when Labor Day begins it's like hey I mean when when Labor Day's over you're like okay we're back into the school year and yeah if you go to any of the big box stores in the last few weeks they've already had the back to school things out and I think they're rolling out the Easter things too it's like whoever's in charge of that you know when I see a pumpkin in August I want to get a shotgun and kill people yeah yeah yeah by the grace of God

I don't, but I just, it's disgusting. Yeah, I almost had one of those moments. I don't know if you ever saw the film falling down with Michael Douglas. It's a pretty hardcore, gritty film, but it's about a suburban guy who just snaps. And I think we can all relate to that tension. I was in a Walmart a little while ago. I know it was probably summer, and I just felt myself getting angry. I couldn't figure out why.

I was like, is this a spiritual attack? Is this a demonic, you know, oppression thing happening? I know there was a very faint song that I was hearing, but I wasn't really registering it, but my subconscious was. And then I was like, wait a second, is that, could that be? And sure enough, it was Felice Navidad in July. And I was like, I turned into a full care and I said, I need to talk to a manager immediately. And then and then and then and then in hilarious form, the person I was speaking to who was an associate there did not speak English and had no idea what I was saying. So, yeah, Santa Claus tattooed on his forehead.

Yeah. Okay. So. Anyway. All right. All right. I think we've, we've covered that for now, for now. Folks, there's a lot that we're going to cover.

We're going to talk about the trans shooter who murdered two children last week. We're going to talk about that. And we're going to talk about. about Mayor Giuliani. We're going to talk about a lot of stuff. Not sure who we have an hour or two today. My dear, dear friend, John Stone Street is coming on the program. John heads up the Colson Center.

That's a whole story. But John Stone Street will be with us either today or tomorrow. Jack Hibbs, my very dear friend, Jack Hibbs, pastor, Jack Hibbs. will be on the program to talk about his new book and many other things. He's one of the greats, Pastor Jack Gibbs in California, Calvary Chapel Chino Hills. We got a lot coming up. We got Ken Fish coming up this week. A lot of great stuff.

But let's talk about the news. First of all, at 2 o'clock today, so probably like while you listen to this program, there's some big announcement coming out that Trump is making. Clearly we cannot comment on that because it hasn't happened yet. Um, so whatever. But I want to talk about the, um, the trans shooter. So, um, do you guys have anything you want to say about that before I weigh in on that? Oh, gosh.

Such, such a tragedy. And doesn't it bear, uh, earmarks of prior shootings? And it really, really is, it's so disturbing. And, you know, Eric, you had on L.A. Marzuli recently, and you listen to a conversation like that. And you are awakened. Your eyes are opened to the things we can't see. And this kid was clearly tormented. There is a part of me.

My heart goes out to him because he was so tormented. He heard voices. He felt bugs under his skin. He wanted to die. He wanted to become famous by being a mass murderer. And yes, I do believe that demonic spirits are at play in situations like this. However, I wrote a fairly long tweet that tied in the antidepressants and the SSRIs that really is a common thread across all of these young shooters. And I really hope RFK Jr., and I mean this seriously, will continue.

investigating to see exactly what effect these things are having. Because this kid was clearly not in his right mind. We can talk about guns. We can talk about his parents. Well, actually, this is one thing I want to talk about. I mean, you're bringing it, you're bringing it up. You get two things going on. And typically on Twitter, on social media, you get two things going on. Both of them are of the devil. Both of them. Okay. So this is kind of in the Tim Keller school of teaching where you say, the left says this and the right says this, but the gospel says this.

I see that now, right? The left says whatever. They have nothing to say except guns are the problem. Don't judge him because he's trans. Trans has nothing to do with it. whatever or you have people like Gavin Newsom and Jen Saki say you know enough with the thoughts and prayers prayers don't work the children were literally praying while they were shot come on like we need action we need gun control we need that that's the left the right and this is my

temptation but it's but it's wrong the right wants to pretend now if you're a Christian And a real Christian following Jesus, you understand how this works. You understand that apart from the grace of God, there go I. If you follow Jesus. And folks, if you think you're a Christian, listen carefully, because this is, if you don't get this, you don't get it. If you somehow think you're superior to somebody who does this. Now, we know it's evil. We know it's wrong.

We condemn it because it's wrong. But if you just want to dump on the people who are foolish enough to get trapped in this, they are victims of the devil doesn't mean they're not culpable. But Keith, you were just talking about this. We're living in a world that is so broken that vulnerable people, ignorant people, are susceptible to lies. And this young man who did this unbelievably wicked thing, murdering, innocent children. It doesn't really get worse than that. But you have to also simultaneously see him as a victim. I mean, if he is in hell forever as a result of this, I don't rejoice in that. When I think about what it would be like to be a young man today who's confused and they're

pumping you with lies and deception about maybe you're really a woman, maybe you're really a woman, And maybe when we come back, we'll pick up on this controversial thread. It's here for the show. We're talking about this horrible trans shooter event, this young man who murdered two children in a Catholic school and shot many others. And what I was just commenting on is that you can really tell, and again, folks, I'm speaking from a Christian perspective. You don't have to agree with my perspective,

but I'm giving you the biblical Christian perspective. The Christian perspective is that as much as we often correctly want to condemn things, we have to be careful about giving ourselves the impression that we are morally better. If you are morally better, it is only because of God's grace in your life. Now, I know that challenges a lot of people. a lot of people they haven't had teaching over the years, either they don't go to church or they just never heard this kind of stuff, the way that Chris and Keith and I, we've heard this, we understand this,

that apart from God's grace, we would not know what we know. We would not know even how to process something like this. So our ability to process it and to talk about it rationally, to understand that this trans movement is satanic lunacy, that the young people that have opened themselves up to this are victims. Now, oftentimes they participate with it. We participate with evil. So it's not that we're not culpable. But in this case, you were talking about this, Keith, this young man, who knows what was going on with him? And I thank God that when I was that age, somehow, by God's grace,

I was not susceptible to whatever it is that this young man was susceptible to, but the number of lies in our culture. And there are many people that participate in these lies in all kinds of ways. And so God is the judge. But the lies in this culture, the fundamental lie, which by God's grace is now coming out, is that the whole trans thing is preposterous, ridiculous, sick, demonic, damage. and that the young people who open themselves up to this, in their weakness, they are the victims. So this young man, you were just talking about it, he was susceptible to this demonic why. He opened himself up to it.

Adults around him allowed this and affirmed him in this demonic deception. But he was on drugs. He was doing weed. Do we need to be clear about that? That pot is bad. Pot is bad. It destroys lives. I think that's coming out.

But there was so much. I read most of his manifesto. Yeah. And it's just, it's so awful. And, well, I guess let's put it this way. One of the things that I want to pull out is that the, the trans lie is finally being exposed. The trans lie is finally being exposed.

More and more people are finally saying, yep, we got this wrong. Now, I don't know how people could ever have gotten it wrong because it's so ridiculous, but we're living in really bizarre times that every kind of lie has been pushed out and people have bought crazy, crazy lies. And one of the things that I on this radio program have tried to do, is to be a voice of sanity for those who think maybe they're crazy and to say, no, you're not. Do you feel like the COVID vaccines are being pushed on you and it makes you uncomfortable?

So do I. I would resist that. Do you think maybe the election was stolen or do you think at least that people telling you can't talk about that makes you think something's wrong? It doesn't feel right. Maybe it's because there was malfeasance in the election in 2020. You're right to ask those questions. Stand strong. Continue to ask those questions.

Does the trans stuff seem crazy to you? Yes, it is crazy. We're living at a time, and this trans shooters murders recently, I think it's just coming out more and more so that your average person out there who doesn't really know what to think is starting to see, yeah, we were lied to. doctors lied to us. They lied to us about COVID. They lied to us about the vaccines. They lied to us that it is okay for young people to take puberty blockers. They lied to us saying that we should affirm our children if they seem suddenly to be confused about whether they're male or

female. So to me, that's kind of the good news, is that this is more and more. coming out. I mean, that's just part of what I wanted to say. But I didn't mean to interrupt you for such a long time, Keith. You were making a good point about reading this young man who, of course, is now dead. Well, Jordan Peterson, Jordan Peterson has a great quote where he says, psychopaths are born, but sociopaths are made. And you really do have to wonder how many of these types of characters, creatures, we're creating because you're right. They have this slightest bit of confusion and we pounce on them. When I say we, I mean, the Douglas Murray says, there's no such thing as the LGBTQ community. If there was, take me to your leader. There is no LGBTQ community.

And when we heard Mayor Frye come out and say, we can't use this to disparage the community. I'm beginning to think the community is not even those who identify as part of it. It's the cabal who are running it. And many of them. I actually put on X, I posted this. The idea that there's some kind of trans community, folks, that is a joke and a lie. It's just what Keith said. There is no trans community.

It's just stupid. It's completely ridiculous. It is a fiction, but it is a vile fiction. Fiction is a nice word for lie. It is a lie. Just as trans children is a lie. There are no trans children. There are no trans people.

There is no such thing. You believe in mermaids? Good for you. There are no mermaids. You know, people bring this stuff up and it's like, well, I believe, well, good for you. But there's certain things that are black and white, one plus one equals two. if we differ on that, there's not much to discuss. And the idea that there are people trapped in the wrong body,

I have no idea, like where you get the idea that that's possible. I guess you believe in a soul. So why do you reason with me and help me figure out if you believe in a soul that God creates people to be one sex but then puts them in the wrong body? I'm not clear on how that's possible. but so this is coming out more and more. And I think that this is where part of our job is to state the facts. And I say what I say, for example, you know, as much as God does not create trans people,

God does not create gay people. God creates people. He creates the male and female. According to the Bible, men and women are made in God's image. They're complementary, C-O-M-P-L-E, complementary. They're meant to complement each other, male and female, in marriage for life to have families. So all sex, you've got to say these basics here, right? You got to know what does the Bible say?

What does Christian faith teach? Sex outside of marriage between a husband and a wife. Any sex outside of that kind of a marriage is not of God. If you're indulging in that, you're sinning, you're harming yourself, you're opening yourself up to dark stuff. We've got to get back to basics. We used to know these things, folks. Before the sexual revolution, everybody knew this. It doesn't mean that people didn't do it or sneak around, but people understood these are the basics.

These are the rules that God has given us to bless us. So sex outside of marriage, once you open that, door, you open the door to all of the lunacy that men can get together with men and that's no different. It's all about love and women can get together with women. From a biblical perspective, you can't do that. Legally, it's a free country. People can do what they want. But biblically, if you want to know the basics right from wrong, if you want to know how to walk with God, we have to reassert these fundamentals. I don't know that these things are being taught in many Christian youth groups anymore. This is basic stuff. We have to go back to the basics, because if you

want to know how we got here, where a young man could go nuts and open himself to demonic forces so that he would want to murder the innocent, so that he would get sadistic pleasure. Think about this. Does it get more demonic? Getting sadistic pleasure from murdering innocence, from having power, over those who have no power and being able to murder them. That's what he wrote in his job. What do you think that is? So we've got a lot here. One of the things is the demonic is real. We're seeing it. It is more and more obvious. This is obvious what we're talking about. If you don't see this as demonic, you've got some other category for what we're talking about. The demonic is real. And this is a blessing from God that we can see it clearly. And we can understand, okay, if that's real,

I need God. There's no solution. There's no pills, there's no therapy. All right, we'll be right back. Over night, we were headline news. Welcome back to your Texas show. I'm talking to my producer, Chris Himes. We're talking to our colleague, Keith Junta, about a lot of things, but I've been just sharing my reactions to what we're seeing in the culture that we've never seen before. We've never seen this level of madness, absolute craziness, divorce from reality. And now, by God's grace, we're seeing the fruit of it. We're seeing that it is openly demonic.

It is most people now can see this is deception. This doesn't work. We've been lied to. These are all good things. But they are a goad to us to go to God. What does God say? We have to rehearse the basics. What does God say about who we are?

Well, yeah, it's really a battlefield of the mind that that's at play here. And obviously, culture is many minds. But there's this idea that the trans movement is something of a social contagion. The other side doesn't like it. When you bring that up, they say there's no evidence of that. But clearly, this is something that's spread beyond, you know, and you could say medically, there are statistical realities where, yes, somebody may have, you know, it's a point zero, something of, you know, chromosomal abnormalities and whatever.

When you have like half the people in, you know, high schools in England and other places that would identify as, you know, on the spectrum of, you know, gender, whatever, it's clearly something bigger than that. And I think, you know, just even looking on X over the weekend and the shooter's drawings, you know, he literally draws a portrait of himself staring at the in a mirror at a demon who's telling him to basically kill himself. and do all this horrible stuff. So, I mean, it's kind of like you can choose to see it or not, but it's undeniable at this point that that's what we're up against. I think it's an opportunity for the good news of Jesus Christ to reach people. I really do. I think that when things get this bad, eyes are opened that before we're not opened.

And I think, again, we can talk about this for hours, but the demonic is real. I mean, I remember that was my. question in 1988 when I was wondering, is there a God? What do I think? I don't know. I thought if I could at least see the devil, I would know, oh, there's a spiritual reality. And I guess if there's demonic evil, I'll choose God. But is there anything? Or are we just in this material world? And I read a book called People of the Lie by M. Scott Peck, and he was a Harvard psychiatrist, politically liberal, but he had seen in his practice, I've spoken about this before, he had seen this thing that he could only call evil, real evil.

And that's what we're seeing. When you read what this young man who murdered these children wrote, it is patently demonic. There's no other way to read it. I mean, to be drool with joy over murdering innocence, what do you think that is, folks? Like, what do you think that is? You think that's like a chemical imbalance?

So I guess we have to turn the page. So when this happened, what the liberals do, again, the conservative sin is to say, I'm not like that, I'm better than these freaks and da-da-da-da. And if you don't have humility before God, that you're no better, that if you know anything better, if you know right from wrong, that's the grace of God in your life, do not be proud as though you somehow inherently are better. You're not inherently better. We all need the grace of God. And so that's on the right. On the left, the left just says, we can't condemn the trans community. Of course, that doesn't exist. And of course, it's about guns. And so they get understandably

frustrated. And I get it, frankly. I'm not going to say that Jen Saki is 100% wrong. She's confused because in her mind, this is about gun control, and she sees people yapping about thoughts and prayers or with you or whatever it is. And so she says what she says. So, you know, she's wrong. But Gavin Newsom said something. He said, now this is amazing. He said they were literally.

And actually, before I even say what Gavin Newsom said, I got to say this. The other day, I don't know if it was yesterday, I saw a clip of him online talking. And for the first time ever, he reminded me dramatically of the young Joe Biden. Cocky, arrogant, slick, habitual liar, will say anything he needs to say because there is no truth there. So he just has to spin. But I really, it was really amazing because there was a time I'm old enough to remember when Joe Biden was. young and slick and powerful and one of the youngest senators. And I thought that, I see that in

Gavin Newsom because he will get old. And it's fascinating to watch people. But Gavin Newsom said something. He said when somebody, I guess, was defending prayer or something with regard to the shooting, Gavin Newsom put out an ex post saying that, like, duh, the children were literally praying when they were shot. In other words, what the heck? What's the point of praying, you idiots? And I thought, that says it all because it's not just that he's denigrating prayer. It's not that. His whole view of prayer and God, and this is true of many people, and I'm sure many people listening to this program, that's why I'm bringing it up. Prayer is not about getting results. Now, we pray, we learn.

long for results. Oftentimes our prayers are answered and I have seen it and I know you guys, Keith and Chris, you've seen it, whatever. But at the end of everything, that's not what prayer is. The martyrs through the centuries prayed while they were being murdered for their faith. Jesus prayed on the cross while he was being murdered. So the idea that you know, well, we'll be right back. Folks, welcome back. We're talking about this trans shooting incident. And I was just referencing Gavin Newsom's cynical tweet that, you know, the children who were murdered were literally praying while they were shot, you know, as if to say, what is the point of prayer, I guess?

I don't know why he foolishly put that out there. He obviously is not thinking before he tweets. But the point is that prayer is about communing with God. Prayer, if you know God, if you don't just think of God as some cosmic candy machine, like I put in my quarter prayer and I get what I want. If I don't get what I want, I hate God. God is a hypocrite because I prayed and he didn't do what I wanted. You don't understand God.

if you know God and ask God to reveal himself to you if you don't know, but God loves us no matter what. If your life goes to hell, God loves you no matter what. You lose a job. Is your marriage on the rocks? Your kids hate you. Whatever is going wrong in your life, do not be confused. God loves you and wants to walk with you through the pain, through the sorrow. That's who God is.

Now, this does not mean that God never answers prayer. But if it's just about getting answers or I'm out, then you never really were talking to God and you don't even know the God that you claim to be praying to. And so that's what Gavin Newsom and others in that kind of expression are revealing is that they don't understand what people who know God understand is that he loves us. It's not about getting answers. When he doesn't answer my prayer, he loves me just as much as when he answers it the way I want him to answer it. So the idea that we judge God or we judge prayer on that is completely theologically off. So again, Jesus on the cross is praying to his Heavenly Father while he is being murdered. Martyrs throughout history are praying to God while he is allowing them to be murdered.

So if you do the math, there's something else going on. God loves us. We love God. We don't doubt that he loves us. And our love for him does not flag if things aren't going our way. Because we know, if we really know God, that even when things don't appear to be going well, if I put my suffering, my trials, whatever it is, in God's hands and ask him to walk with me through it. He does that. He walks with me through it. So the whole idea I'm going to

curse God and die because I'm going through a hard time. That is sin, folks. That is sin. You're participating with the devil when you do that. And that's what Gavin Newsom's revealing. And of course, there are many people who think that way. Like, what is prayer? Like the kids there, they are praying at a Catholic school and they die. I mean, I've heard this many times, you know, that, like, Oh, there was one of the greatest tragedies in the history of New York. There was a ferry. It was like a thousand kids from Sunday school going to a picnic. I don't even remember where this was.

And the fairy catches fire and like hundreds of kids dies, this horrible thing. And they were Sunday school kids going to a picnic. Now, if you're looking to praise the devil or to curse God, there's the perfect example. But why do you even need to look to that? You look to the Holocaust. There are plenty people. I remember, and Keith and Chris, you may remember who I'm talking about, but there was a comedian, Professor Irwin Corey.

I loved him. He was on TV mostly in the 70s. I once spotted him. This is like 20 years ago or more, more than 20, 23 years ago. I spotted him on the street in New York. I was walking at church with my wife and daughter. And I said, I got to say hello to Professor Irwin Corey. So I run up to him.

He was literally 95 years old at the time. And I just said, excuse me, Professor Corey, just wanted to say hello. I've been a fan for years. I just want to say, God bless you. You know, he said, I'm 95 or something like that. I said, God bless you. He said to me, why should God bless me? He didn't bless the Jews.

He didn't because he was Jewish. In other words, because God allowed the Holocaust to happen to hell with God, who cares about, quote unquote, God. He can't exist because look what he allowed to happen. if you think of God that way, you're missing it. You're not wrong to be outraged at the horror, but you're not processing it the way God would want you to process it. Yes, there's evil in the world.

We're to look to God in the midst of the evil, in the midst of our suffering. And everybody and Chris and Keith, you can confirm this with me. If you go through life, there will be hard. times there will be suffering. There will be baffling times where you say, I don't understand why God is allowing this. And like, that's real. But the takeaway is not, God doesn't love me. God isn't with me. And so it was a really revealing thing. I was actually, this Sunday, Suzanne and I were up at his

vineyard in Bethel, Connecticut, where we go to church sometimes up in Connecticut, at his vineyard. and Carrie Baldelli was speaking about this issue of, you know, looking for results when you pray. And there's nothing wrong. That's part of why we pray. But if God doesn't give you what you want, is it possible that this God who loves you and knows everything has a bigger plan for you is bringing you through a season of trial to purify you, to show you what you still lack in your? your relationship with him, there's a lot more there. And while Carrie was talking about this at his vineyard in Bethel, Connecticut, she never brought up this Gavin Newsom thing that he said.

And after the service, I said, you know, your whole sermon was an illustration of what Gavin Newsom tweeted, this idea, hey, the kids were literally praying and they were killed. So what about it? it's just a fundamental misunderstanding of who God is, of what prayer is. I mean, Eric, you are circling on theological grounds that are, you know, they've been debated for the ages. And it's really hard to try to settle in our minds. But I think one of the big realities is if we want to portray a God, it makes every bullet. you know, and kills every evil dictator before they do evil, we don't know what we're asking for.

Yeah, I mean, look, it just makes no sense. And again, we're not to say that there's not pain, there's not suffering, there's not mystery, there's not outrage, it's not, we've all got questions. But let's at least frame them correctly, try to understand who is the God of the Bible, what does he say about himself and about us? Okay, plenty more coming up. We'll be right back. Welcome back.

It's Tuesday. It feels like Monday because yesterday was Memorial Day. If you're wearing Searsucker, take it off quick. If you're wearing white pants, white shoes, take them off quick. Replace them with something more appropriate. Okay. We're talking about a lot of stuff. Wanted to talk about, let's see.

I mentioned earlier the whole sex outside of marriage thing. This is really interesting because we're living in a time where the freakishness is so out there that we have forgotten. We've like normalized, you know, like men getting married or women getting married. It's like that's like nothing compared to what we're dealing with drag queen story hour for little kids and whatever. But we've got to reassert the fundamentals, the basics. God does not create us gay. A God does not ever want us to have sex outside of marriage.

Now, if you want to know what God wants, I'm just telling you that's God's will. But we have to reassert these basics. This is not old-fashioned morality. This is morality. This is basic stuff. And if you follow God's plan, it at least enables you to hear from God. But if you say, I don't care. I want to do my own thing.

In some ways, you blind yourself. You make it impossible. You know, and I'm speaking as someone who got this wrong when I was a young man. I did not know God until I was 25 years old. And I didn't, I just didn't understand this. And, you know, you just go with, what is everybody else doing? What does everybody else say is normal? Well, you know, everybody else says a lot of evil stuff.

And so we're responsible. I want to talk about, man, there's so much Mayor Giuliani. I just heard the other day, then you've probably heard by now, that he was in a very serious car accident. It looks like he broke or fractured his spine or neck, some serious stuff. But it seems from what I have heard that he will be okay. But I asked people to pray for him, and it gave me an opportunity to reflect. I've had the privilege of having conversations with him, of interviewing him on this program a couple of years ago.

he's the real deal. He's a deeply, deeply good man. And he is a Christian. And he was so vilified in these last years following, of course, the 2020 election theft, which is being revealed every day. But I'm old enough to remember New York before Giuliani as mayor. And ladies and gentlemen, whatever you think's going on in New York right now, it is nothing compared to what New York, had become in the 70s. It was sin city, and I don't mean in the fun Las Vegas sense, I mean it was a broken crime infested city in the 80s, horrible, crack epidemic. Giuliani comes in and by the grace of God is able to pull this city. It really is miraculous. I don't say that lightly because it doesn't seem conceivable that a mayor would be able to, through some policies and courage, lift a city from what it was into what it became

under him and which Mayor Bloomberg maintained during his subsequent terms. So as much as New York has made a U-turn, we are nowhere near what it was before Mayor Giuliani. He is an American hero, a true American hero. And so I just, when I read that he'd been in the serious accident, I guess he was driving in New Hampshire, it just made me reflect on him. What a great man. What a great man he is and has been.

We're going to go to a break here. We'll be right back. We've got plenty more that we want to talk about, that I want to talk about. So don't go away, folks. We'll be back.