The Eric Metaxas Show - Natalya Shutakova

Episode Date: May 19, 2020

From Norway, Natalya Shutakova joins Eric to discuss what's happening since all three of her children were taken away by her country's child protective services based on a lie.

Mattaxas show. It's the show that helps you make sense of things that would otherwise baffle you. Like, for example, why does that one shoe hide in the back of the closet like that? Is it afraid of you? Or does it just need some alone time? Or maybe it's ashamed of something. Something terrible that only a shoe would be ashamed of? The answers to these and other questions right here, right now on the Eric Mataxis show. And now your host, Eric Mataxis. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. We have an exciting show today, but we've always also got some sad news. We heard not long ago that our friend Ravi Zacharias has passed away. Most of us knew in the last couple of weeks who followed his career that he was very ill and expected not to live.

Some of us have been praying for him, but early this morning he went to be with the Lord. And I just have to say, and Albin, I know you agree with me, that it's a complex thing. thing when something like this happens, when someone we care about dies, right, passes away. Because in his case, we know where he is. Now, some people maybe wouldn't understand that or think it somehow arrogant that we would say that we know where he is. But everything I know tells me that for sure he's in the presence of Jesus and that he's in paradise and that where he is could never ever be better. It's the most glorious thing imaginable.

And nonetheless, we mourn. And the question is, why do we mourn? And I say that we mourn because we're still here. We mourn because we miss him. We mourn because we're not yet where he is. And I think that so those of us who believe in the hope of heaven and believe that Jesus opened the door for us to come to heaven through faith in him, we still mourn, but we don't mourn as the world mourns according to the scripture. We mourn in a different way. We mourn death itself, just as Jesus wept at the tomb of Lazarus, we weep, because there is this thing called death. There is this thing called sickness. And even though God has defeated these things, we still live here where we are in a veil of tears. And so it's a tricky thing. And then, uh, as my chief of staff,

Alyssa pointed out this morning, the other thing is the untimeliness of it. I mean, I interviewed Ravi 10 months ago and he was just spectacularly, uh, fit and with it. And it was, it was so wonderful to talk to him. And so the idea that suddenly, uh, is someone, uh, who seems to be, you know, in the prime of his career, he was 74, but he wasn't an old 74. He seemed a young, vibrant 74. It's harder when someone like that passes away because

we would have liked to think that we would have had him for another 15 or 20 years. And so it is sad. So in memory of our friend Ravi in hour two today, we're going to be playing my interview with him.

If you never heard it or if you did hear it, I know you'll enjoy it. So that's coming up in hour two. And tomorrow, We will play the second half of that interview in hour two tomorrow. And I would just like to remind our listeners. Billy Graham said this about his own passing. He said, when you hear thy past, he said, I'll be more alive than I am now. I'll have just changed my address.

That's all. Isn't that? I mean, it's beautiful. I just want to say that those things are true, folks. Believe me, those things are true. And it's a good time for us now to focus on the fact that, We're all going to leave this place. There's no one who doesn't leave this place.

The only question is, where do you go from here? That's the only question. If you want something to think about, want something to worry about, worry about where you go from here and know that there's an easy answer that God who loves you has provided. He says, believe in my son, Jesus, and follow him and give your life to him. He has made a way for you to be with me. in eternity in paradise.

We'll leave it at that. Albin, I want to say quickly that in hour two today, as I've just said, we have Ravi Zacharias and an hour two tomorrow, we have Ravi Zacharias.

In hour one today, we're in just a moment going to play my interview with Natalia Shudakova. This is a woman who with her husband lived in Atlanta for many years. They have three kids. They moved to Norway because he had a job there that he felt obliged to take.

And she felt obliged as his wife to go with him with the kids. And a horrible thing happened to them. Some of you know this. If you follow me on Facebook or on Twitter, I have talked about this and retweeted some of the previous interviews that they did with the 700 Club and other places, Christian Post. The child protecting services in Norway, as in many of these European countries, they don't really believe parents have rights.

And a strange thing happened. I think that one of their daughters was angry and said something to a teacher about her parents, which wasn't true. And the teacher reported it to Child Protective Services, long and the short of it is that for close to a year now, these kids have been taken away from their parents, and the parents cannot get them back. They cannot see the kids. They can't talk. It is a horrible situation.

And this woman, Natalia, and her husband, they're Christians. So in this hour, I'm going to be talking to her and getting the story from her mouth. And I hope you will share this. The video will be up on our YouTube channel, the Irkman Taxis Show channel. Please share it. And please pray for these folks. It's a horrible situation. But we'll get her story in just a moment.

Tomorrow, I will be speaking with Al Mueller. I'm excited about that. He has a new book out. Some of you know Al Moller. We should say also, Albin, before I forget, last night, Suzanne and I had the joy of tuning into PBS at 9 p.m. to watch a documentary about the life of Clarence Thomas. Clarence Thomas, in his own words,

it was spectacular, absolutely spectacular. Lisa Shreve, who's a friend of mine, was very involved in the making of this film, and Michael Pack who directed it was on this show. That's right. It's spectacular. I believe you can still see it. If you go to PBS online, I think you can see it.

It really was amazing, and you should try to get your kids to watch it as well. It's a big deal when a film about someone who is ideologically conservative, his legal philosophy is generally conservative, when someone like that has their story told on a place like PBS. So I really do hope you'll watch it. And speaking of things to watch, no safe space is. another great film. Go to no safespaces.com and use the code Save 25. It's a wonderful film.

Dennis Prager and Adam Carolla are in it. You can also watch. We did a video Facebook Live where I goofed around with Adam Carolla, the comedian, and Dennis Prager and a new friend, a comedian. And you can watch us talk about the film, but you can see the film at no safespaces.com. There's also a bookout, no safe spaces, and you can use the code save 25. But I want to recommend that. And finally, before we talk to Natalia in Norway, kind of amazing album that we can talk to people in Norway, isn't it?

I know. It's amazing. It's amazing. Yeah. I'm crazy. But before we do that, I want to remind you that we are way behind for some reason. We can't figure it out on our fundraise with Angel Tree Camp. And we're asking you, if possible, to go to our website, metaxis talk.com.

I believe that, well, you know what, at the end of this program, I will give you the phone number. And I want to tell you a little bit more about that. At the end of this week, folks, Victoria Jackson is going to be on this program. We love her. She's such a nut. So funny. very few people crack me up. Albin, you're one of them.

I am. Yes, you are. I'm befuddled. To really crack me up. You crack me up. Chris does. Victoria Jackson does. She's a delight, but she's prettier than you and Chris combined.

A little bit. And we're also going to do a fun facts Friday this Friday. We haven't done that a little while. And next week we've got an Ask Mattaxas coming up. A lot of fun stuff and a lot of great guests. And we're also going to talk to the doctor who, has written this book with, what's the woman's name? Oh, my goodness. Dr. Judy's, Judy Milkovitz. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, all right. So when we come back,

we're talking to Natalia Shudakova in Norway. You've got to hear this story, share this story, and we'll catch you at the end of the hour. Hey, folks, welcome to the Eric Matakas show. We've got something very important to share with you today. Some of you who follow me on Twitter or on Facebook are aware of a situation going on in Norway that every person who loves freedom, certainly every person of faith, would take an interest in this. The 700 Club did a report on this last year. The Christian Post wrote about this last year, but there has been no follow-up. It's very upsetting. I have on the phone and actually also if you're watching this on video, you can see her.

Natalia Chutakova, who lives in Norway. Her children have been taken away from her by the government. I wanted her to tell that story. It's a difficult situation. Natalia, welcome to the program and please tell my audience what's been going on. For people who know nothing about the situation, please tell us what you can. Thank you for having me. So me and my husband, we moved to Norway in September 2018, and he had a job contract here, so it was a temporary move.

We also have three children who were born and raised American in Atlanta, Georgia. And as soon as we came, just a few months later, without a single warning, CPS comes with three police cars, and they simply accuse of child mistreatment. And we were jailed, both me and my husband. And it was something that my daughter said in school. So she just had a birthday yesterday. She turned 12, and we were not allowed to see her for her birthday. And later she, of course, regretted it.

She recorded a video on her phone. She said that she wasn't honest to her teachers. It was a lie. And because of that, they are now keeping the children in foster care. Natalia, tell us, first of all what CPS is, because I'm not familiar with that. but also tell us what is the, in other words, what does the Norwegian government say you and your husband are guilty of that they would put you in prison? In other words, what did your daughter lie about that made them decide to do this horrible thing? Because all these kids have been in foster care for over a year.

You're not able to see them. This is every parent's nightmare, especially if you're used to the freedom of, you know, living in the United States. It's unthinkable to most of us. But so tell us what CPS and tell us what the Norwegian government is accusing you and your husband of to take this dramatic action. So the CPS here in Norway, it's called Barnavana. And they are organization without control. So my daughter, she was in school. And so she had a birthday on May 17th.

And then May 20th, a few days later, she could. comes to school and she was upset simply because we took away her phone. And after we took away that phone, she was angry on us. And she told the teachers that she was abused. But that was never true. All three children, they were attending swimming classes. And no one has ever seen a single mark of abuse. So that was not true.

Based on that accusation, the CPS, the court decided to keep the children in foster care. We had a court hearing in September last year, which gave us three visitations per year, two hours each, each child. And since September, we are in mid-May right now. I have not seen my children for about seven months. This is a nightmare, as I say, and I didn't understand that CPS, you mean child protective services. That's the, I mean, that's what we call it in the United States, but you were using that term. You mean Norway's version of that. But I guess I still don't understand.

In other words, your daughter in school complains that, you know, she's angry because you and your husband disciplined her. And most parents like me would applaud you for taking away her phone and doing these things. These are good things. This is called love. When you love someone, you know, you do things like that. And so your daughter complains. But how is it that you and your husband were jailed? And, you know, in other words, were you being accused of battering the children?

What were, why would they put you in jail, you know, for your daughter saying something, even lying? Did she did your daughter claim that you were physically abusing her? Yeah. So the police has opened an investigation immediately. They only held us in jail for 24 hours and then released us. The investigation lasted for two and a half months. And then police drops the charges. The police closes the case.

They found no evidence of any abuse, you know. And my question is, is that what your daughter was saying happened, that you were physically abusing her? It was never confirmed. It was never confirmed by her. But something your daughter said caused the child protective services in Norway to put you and your husband in jail and then to have your children taken away from you all of this time. and also you're not even allowed to see them, just based on something your 11-year-old daughter said in school? The reason why they're not giving us any visitations,

they say we fear that you're going to kidnap your children, and they know that I can take them out back to the United States. And they just don't want to give us any visitations because of potentially kidnapping. the children. But I've been in contact with the U.S. Embassy here in Oslo, and they have been in constant contact with my attorney. And we know that this CPS in the city where we lived, they have lied multiple times. And this is how they work without any control. No one controls them. They have about 35 cases in the European Court of Human Rights

against Norwegian Barnarren, Norwegian CPS, all regarding the families and how they violate our human rights. What are the ages of your children? Well, the oldest one just turned 12, and my son is 10, and youngest, she's almost 8. And they've been away from you for nearly a year? Yes, since May 20th last year. So I'm still trying to understand.

This is a monstrous situation, which is why I wanted to have you on. When I really looked into it, I said, this is, for every American, this should be a warning of what happens when you don't live under a real freedom and liberty, when you don't have a constitution and when you don't have a kind of government. that respects the individual, they have the freedom to do things like this. And this is a dramatic case. But you're telling me there are many cases across Norway where the Child Protective Services of Norway is doing things like this. And people try to fight it in the courts. And you haven't seen your children in months.

And of course, in this case, it's based on a lie. I think what triggered my daughter to say this was we told us. her if she had some behavioral issues and we told her that if she doesn't work on those, we're not going to give her a birthday. But, you know, like a birthday party and we're not going to invite anybody. And she was kind of mad and she really was looking forward to that birthday. And plus we got her a new phone, which we later took away for disciplinary measures. So instead of showing up to school the next day, all excited and happy, she goes and tells her teacher that she's hungry. And she actually had the lunchbox in her book back the whole time.

And I still have a message in my phone from her teacher saying that, you know, your daughter is hungry. And I've been a mom for 11 years. My kids never go hungry to school, all three of them. So one lie in top of another just led to this. This is, we're going to go to a break, but we're going to come back, Natalia, with you. Folks, this is very important. First of all, we want to find out what we can do in America to help the situation, but also that we understand what happens when the government takes away the rights of parents.

This is happening in the United States. We'll be right back. And I'm best with hot trees on. How are you thrown is the one dangerous on? Take me to the pilot for control. Christian bestselling author and speaker Richard E. Simmons does not shy away from the big questions of life. His latest book is called Reflections on the Existence of God, and it tackles the biggest question of all, does God exist?

I've read this book and I've got to tell you, I'm a little biased. You can imagine that I like it a lot because Simmons offers insights for those grappling with life's biggest questions. Where do we find meaning in life? Who determines what is evil? Can we be moral without God? Does God even exist? Former White House aide Wallace Henley says, I've taught apologetics for many years and I've read every scholar mentioned in this book. Of all the books on apologetics, Simmons is the best I have ever read. This book is easy to read because it's divided into a series of brief essays, perfect for a devotional or discussion with a friend. I highly recommend that you add a copy of reflections on the existence of God to your pandemic reading list. Simmons asked questions that speak directly to one of the most important things you possess your worldview. Folks, you know how

important this is to me. Your worldview is going to impact the way you live your life for better or for worse. If you want to challenge yourself to spiritual and intellectual growth, and I hope you do, then be willing to ask yourself life's toughest questions. Dive in today by picking up a copy of reflections on the existence of God right now. Go to existence of godbook.com. That's existence of godbook.com. Hey folks, I'm here from Taxi Show. I'm talking to Natalia Shudakova, who lives in Norway, who brought her kids up in Atlanta and who is facing a horrible situation where child protective services in Norway has taken her three children away from her. Nataya, it seems to me like what happened, it's a classic thing. In other words,

You have a child acting out. You're doing your best as parents because you love them to discipline them. But in a place like Norway, they have the option, just like they would in East Germany, where my mother grew up, to go to the authorities, whether it's their teacher or but to report on the parents. And the parents then take the sides of the kids against the parents, not knowing the situation and, of course, not loving the kids as the parents do, and overstepping their bounds in a horrifying way. I know that the 700 Club reported on this, but there hasn't been much updating on this. So where do things stand now, and what can people in the United States do?

We were, because of this whole coronavirus, we had to miss the April court. It was rescheduled for September later this year. So the U.S. consulate, he has agreed to be present in the hearing. and we really hope that it's going to work this time. But not giving us a single visit with the children for nearly eight months is unthinkable. That's why I wanted to have you on, Natalia, because as a parent, as a father, you know, this makes me very angry. This is one of the most horrible things that government can do.

and I'm just stunned when I get the details from you to think what you and your husband have been through. Now, is your husband Norwegian by birth? Is that how you happen to be there now? No, he's Lithuanian, actually. And he lived in the United States with us in Atlanta for 20 years. And he got this job contract here in Oslo. So he had to accept it. And I decided I was going to, I knew nothing about this country.

So I made a big mistake by coming here with children. And, you know, we registered the kids for school immediately, all three of them. And there was never a concern from September when they started up until May 20th. They never told us a single thing that was a long. or, you know, something that could call the parents, sit down with them, talk to them, say, hey, your daughter has behavioral issues. Let's work on that. Offer some help. None of that was done. It's a stunning thing to me. Listen, I don't think you made the wrong decision. I think it ended up being horrible, but you could have never known that. I think if your husband goes to a

country to work, you should go with your children. And who would dream? Natalia, this is the issue. Who would dream that in a place like Norway? We're not talking about going to North Korea. We're talking about Norway. I've been to Norway. It seems wonderful. And then you face things that you never would dream of. You say that the U.S. consulate, you know, that they're going to have somebody there in September, but are they unable to do anything between now and then? It seems to me that the U.S. government ought to be able to do more. Sadly, yeah, this is what I've been asking them to do more. I've written letters to President Trump.

I've written letters to my local senators, governor, and there's not much they can do. They say because this is not parental abduction. This is a state abduction. Well, it seems amazing to me. Are you an American citizen? I lost you. I sorry.

Say it again? Yes, I am. I mean, okay, if you're an American citizen, it seems to me that you spend all these years in Atlanta, it strikes me that because you're an American citizen, that the United States government should be able to do something about that or should be willing to take this up with the Norwegian government. So I'm not really clear on how it's possible that our government has allowed this to go on this way. How did this come to the attention of CBN originally and the Christian Post? Are you and your husband Christians? Is that somehow part of the story? Yes, I've been Christian all my life.

And my husband just recently in Atlanta, he became Christian. But the CBN somehow heard about our story and they reached out to us and also the Christian Post. Yeah, I guess the thing is that you find in this day and age, it's conservatives, it should be everyone, but it's conservatives and often conservative Christians that are feeling the brunt of big state, big government overreach. And this is a classic example. You have stories around Europe where people are trying to homeschool their kids. And it's been outlawed in Germany. And in the United States, of course, there's pressure. And so there's a kind of, um, uh, an ideological orthodoxy. And if you run afoul of that, the governments are stepping in. And that's part of what happened in your case. They think that they have the right to tell you how to raise your children and are willing to believe your kids. Is there anyone that people in the United States should contact? We're going to go to a break here. But anything you can give us before we go to the break. It's just up to volunteers and people with a kind heart.

who are spreading this information on social media. Some people have actually sent letters to the White House on our behalf. Well, we're going to follow up with this. We'll be right back with you, Natalia. Don't go away. Folks, this is the Eric Matak Show. This is really important. Please stick around.

Hey, folks, welcome back to the Eric Mattaxas show. I'm talking to Natalia Chutakova, who is in Norway, whose children have been taken from her and her husband by Child Protective. services in that country for reasons we've been hearing about. Natalia, who have been your champions on this? Who's been posting social media about this? Because it seems like there was information some months ago, and then it's just kind of petered out. Number one, who has been supporting us, step up for children's rights, Bjorn Khorf and Stephen Bennett. They are both in Austria, Vienna.

They are really touched by, this is not my, my case is not the first one. So they know many more families who have been separated like this. You know, they are really supportive. Well, I guess this is again,

it's a scary thing for those of us in the West and especially in America because we, we haven't really seen much of this. But because of stories, like yours, we understand what happens when the government has more control over our children and over our lives than we do. I mean, I find it most fascinating, Natalia, that you and your husband even went to jail, that they put you in jail. Why did they say to you that they were putting you in jail when they did this? They could barely even translate anything to us.

They said child mistreatment, and then we will investigate if you're not guilty, then case will be closed. So that's what happened. What I know that CPS workers are doing, and it's stated in the documents, somehow the video from the CBN news got into their hands. It's been all over social media, and it got into their hands. So they drive to my children's current location and they just shove it in their faces. See what your mom is doing? See what she's doing? She's exposing you to the media, to the public.

How else am I supposed to get my children back? I want to scream, you know, about this injustice. And yes, this is the only option by going public about this. Of course. Well, look, I think any parent can understand that. And, you know, we're cheering you on. There are going to be a lot of people praying for you, Nataya. What is your husband's name so we can pray for him as well?

My husband is Gigantes. He is, yeah. How do you say it? Z-I-G-I-N-T-A-S. And what are your children's names, if you don't mind? We can find this on media, but I want my audience to hear them from your mouth. My oldest girl is Brigitte. and then my son is Nikita and my baby is Elizabeth.

And your children are currently in foster care. Are you aware of their conditions? Yes, they're all split in three different cities. They don't see each other. I don't know why the siblings are not allowed to see each other. If you want to punish the parents for anything, and why would you punish the children like that? It's a trauma for the rest of their life

to be split up like that. And they're just trying to erase their heritage, their background, you know? I simply, you know, my heart breaks for you and your husband. And I guess I want to ask, you know this video will go out I hope people will share it but do you believe that the US government can do something if people are in touch with them no they can I know that the strongest country the most powerful country in the world is

capable of doing such a small thing I know that last summer ASEP Rocky was freed from Swedish prison by the Trump the administration. For a crime that he has committed, the ASAP Rocky, if you Google that, you'll find information. How can they not save innocent children? We have a lot of family in the States,

good working Christians. They would not place them even temper until this whole thing results. You could have placed the children with my parents or my sisters. but that was never even on the table. And where are your parents and sisters now? Most of my family and sisters are still in Atlanta,

and some are in New York. This is absolutely unbelievable. It's so dismaying. It's difficult for me to cover things like this because I just get so angry, but I'm glad that you made yourself available for us to get the story out to my audience. We will put out the links.

There are a number of YouTube things that you sent us, Natalia, and we're going to put them out. And I hope that this interview reaches some folks in the United States government who can do something about this. Right now, I'm not quite sure who would be best for us to reach. But I think there are people who listen to this program who will have some sense and who will be willing to take some action. Is there a website where people can find you or your husband? All the information is published on Step Up for Children's Rights website. Step Up for Children's Rights. Yeah, there's petitions.

There's all updates. And in the meantime, how are you and your husband coping with this? I just can't imagine. I assume you're praying. We have a large family, our church. We're all praying, and it's just unbearable. What is the church? Can you share the name of the church? Yes, it's a New Life Church of Atlanta, a Slavic church. New Life Church of Atlanta?

Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, I'm just grateful to you, Natalia, for being willing to tell your story. I know most parents would do the same, do anything for their children. So I just want to say, God bless you. We'll be praying for you and your family. And I know a lot of people will listen to this. And I hope something good will come of it.

God bless you and your husband and your kids. Thank you for your time. Thank you so much. Have a blessed day. What's that flower you have on? Could it be a faded rose from days gone by? He was a meeting you here today to take you to take you to his mansion in the sky.

She's 41 and the daddy still calls her baby. Last night you know I couldn't sleep, wouldn't sleep, tossing and turning about. Thinking about the way it's... Hey folks, as promised, we're going to give you the phone number for AngelTree, and we're going to play a clip from Anderson Cooper from CNN. You believe that? I'm not joking. But before that, I just want to say that in our two,

today, we are playing my interview with Ravi Zacharias, who went to be with the Lord early this morning. We're going to be playing that in just a few minutes. Stay tuned in hour two. But before that, I just want to remind you, we're doing a fundraiser for Angel Tree. Listen, the whole point of this is to make summer a little brighter for boys and girls who have a parent in prison. So you can kind of imagine what life is like for them. Prison Fellowship and Angel Tree serve kids in all 50 states, which is amazing. And this year, they are sending those kids they can send to camp just as they do every year. $200 sends a kid to camp for a week.

But a lot of these kids won't be able to go to camp. They're going to be stuck at home going through a tough time. And I just want to say that Angel Tree says for those kids that cannot go to camp because of the shutdown or whatever, Angel Tree has created a wonderful care package for them. Now, you know that a lot of these parents of these kids who are home, they're struggling to meet basic needs, right? It's the urgency of now food banks. I mean, you've got all kinds of people going to food banks. It's a long story. Let's play the clip from Anderson Cooper. we're on this subject. The urgency of now is visible all across the country. Food banks are overwhelmed. When this one in San Antonio announced an emergency food distribution, more than 10,000 people showed up.

Each family was given enough to last two weeks. Can you believe this, folks, that we've got a lot of people who've never been to a food bank in their lives, never dreamt that they would have to go, waiting in long lines to get food. So right now, what AngelTree is doing is they're sending care packages to the families where one of the parents is currently in prison. And for $200 in this care package, $150 is grocery gift cards. You can just imagine how this will bless them.

You can bless them by giving to AngelTree. You go to metaxus talk.com. Metaxistalksotoc.com. I'll give you the phone number in just a minute. But they get $150 in grocery gift cards. They get an age-appropriate Bible for the kids, Bible study materials, a choice of sports equipment like a football or a soccer ball. They get to choose and a special note of encouragement.

This is a really wonderful, wonderful idea that Angel Tree has come up with so that the kids that can't go to camp will be blessed. Nonetheless, we'll hear from someone that God loves them. So let me give you the phone number. The phone number is 888-206-2793. I know there are lots of folks right now you can pick up the phone and give anything, folks. If you can give $200, great. If you can give more, all the better.

And if you can't give $200, give what you can because it's really vital. What can I say? It's vital. These kids will not be helped unless you're able to help them. So I want to give the phone number again. It's 888206, 2793, 888-206-2793. 2793. And if you'd rather go online, you can go to Metaxistalkysotocot.com, and you can see the banner there.

And don't forget, if you do give that $200, Eric wants to send you a signed copy of seven more men. So make sure you give you a copy, whether you like it or not. Yeah, it will be signed. whether you, yeah. And if you give $100, you get a metaxa Super. subscription to Metaxa Super, which is commercial free podcasts. God bless you in hour two coming up now, my conversation with the great Ravi Zacharias.