The Eric Metaxas Show - Natasha Crain

Episode Date: March 31, 2025

Natasha Crain shares her book "When Culture Hates You: Persevering for the Common Good as Christians in a Hostile Public Square". More at https://a.co/d/dqds2Ev

Noble gold investments is the official gold sponsor of the Eric Mataxis show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you can protect your wealth with noble gold investments. That's noble gold investments.com. Do you check your bucket list lately? Are you ready to take care of item number seven? Listening to the Eric Metaxus show? Well, welcome. Tune in and then move on to item number eight. Skydiving with Chuck Schumer and AOC. Here now is Mr. Completed My Bucket List at age 12, Eric Ma, Texas. Folks, welcome. Today we have another special guest coming in a few moments.

We have the greatest guests on this program. I'm excited about it. I'll leave it to you to figure out who it is. What a guess, maybe. but two things I need to say today before we get to our guests, two guests. Number one, we're in the last days of the Food for the Poor campaign. And for some reason, we are extremely far behind. It doesn't look like we're even halfway to our goal, which is confusing and embarrassing to me,

because Food for the Poor is such a great organization. They come to us to do this, and I don't know really what more we could have done. Obviously, we've laid the case out to you about how reputable food for the poor is. My goodness, oh, my goodness, they are the best. They're 43 years doing God's work, commissioned to do God's work. 43 years ago, the leader, the founder, of Food for the Poor to do God's work in feeding the least of these,

in ministering to the least of these as we're commanded to in Matthew. And that's what he and Food for the Poor have been doing. But they can't do it without our help. They can't do it without your help. So I appeal to you today. Please, folks, if you haven't yet given something to Food for the Poor, the website, it's our radio website. You go to Metaxistalk.com.

and you'll see at the top of the page the banner. We just have a couple days left, so we really need you to step up if you can. Maybe there's somebody out there who can do a big gift, but it's not about the big gifts. It's about everybody doing a little bit. So if you enjoy the program, please go to metaxis talk.com, mettaxistocon.com, and you'll see the banner there. the statistics, I mean, what we're dealing with specifically here, what food for the poor is doing specifically now when you give to them now, which I hope you're going to do if you haven't, is they're feeding hungry children in Central America, in this case, mostly in El Salvador. And what they've done is they realize that most of these kids go to school and if they can get them a nutrition. lunch, that solves the problem. Otherwise, you have huge, huge numbers of children malnourished. It's an

inconceivable thing, malnourished, suffering from malnutrition. So I want to play a clip, Chris, if you have the clip. This is Daisy in El Salvador speaking through an interpreter. Let's see if we can play that. if you have an opportunity to have a good life, many blessings. But you can actually change a life of a child in a basic need such as food. You then can also be a blessing to people that don't have anything to eat and they will eat because of you. Yeah, because of you. So God blessed you as you give. We have a phone number if you prefer to do that.

So the website against metaxis talk.com. and you'll see the banner. And that'll take you through the links. But you can also use your phone to text my last name, Metaxus, M-E-T-A-X-A-S. If you text Metaxus to 5-1-5-55-5-5, the link will pop up. Text Metaxus to 5-1-55-5-5-5. Go to the website, Metaxistocococ.com. You'll see the banner.

Or if you want to call, a lot of you have called, The phone number is 844-863-4673, 844-863-467-3, 8-4-863-46-8-6-7-3, 8-4-8-6-7-3. So this is important, just a couple of days left. And again, we are farther behind than we've ever been. I don't know how we make up the deficit unless everybody listening just gives a little bit. And we would be so grateful to you. And I would mention if anybody's excited about meeting up with you or you're hosting a dinner or, you know, gathering. I always throw that out there that if there is someone or a group of people that can give $15,000,

Now, again, this is tax deductible, and this is the greatest cause there can be feeding children that need you to feed them that are desperate, that our families are desperate. But I give an evening of my time. My time has become ridiculously valuable. It's very tough for me. I'm going through a hard time on a number of levels. But this is something that I am willing to do, spend an evening to have dinner with you or with a group that you put together. in a place that we always figure out a place to do that kind of thing. And in your city or my city or someplace where you'll be and I'll be and whatever it is.

But if somebody wants to do that or you want to get a group of, you know, three couples to do 5,000 each or whatever it is, but I would call 844-863-4-8-6-7-3, 8-4-6-7-3. but we're really looking for smaller gifts, folks. They ask for $100, maybe you can do $50, whatever you can do. It's a great cause. It's just about the greatest cause. Okay, so in crazy news, I have to share with you. Yesterday, I went to my store.com.

That's Mike Lindell's website. All of my books are there now at totally ridiculous prices. Do you want to know how ridiculous? So ridiculous that I am ordering my own book. books from my store.com. Yesterday, I ordered my own books from my store.com because the prices are so low. You have to use the code, Eric, obviously. But just to give an example, I don't know, if you can't see this, if you see the video, look at this book. You see how big this book is. This is the Yankee Doodle Mugsy book. These are $25 books. They could be way more than that. They're just these gorgeous

gigantic books with these amazing illustrations. Some of you have seen them before. but they're insane. And it's a huge, they're huge books, right? Because of this insane sale with the code, they're $10. I ordered five copies of my birthday ABC yesterday from my store.com using the code, Eric, because it's $10. I cannot get them at that price myself. It's nuts, right?

The Donuts, the Swamp book. Donald Drain's the Swamp. Donald builds the wall. Donald and the fake news, all those books are, it's $10. Don't ask me how they're doing that or whatever, but I mean, my Miracles book is $10.50. These are all hardcover books. They're gorgeous. Mystore.com. Again, these are new prices. This is a new big sale. So I'm just telling you, you cannot do better. Believe me, seven men, seven women. Mystore.com. You got to use the code Eric.

But the funniest thing, and Chris, you'll appreciate this. When you go to my store.com, one of the things that pops up, they have, like, you know those, the big, they've got the small ones and the big ones, but it's kind of the honey bear. Like, you know, you get honey and it's in the shape of a bear, whatever. They have one. I got a few of these because I was dying. It's trump honey. It's make honey great again. It's the funniest stinking thing.

It's like I had to order a couple of those. So I don't know how you can resist. It's just so funny. Mike Lundell is such a riot, the fact that he's carrying this kind of stuff. It's a Trump honey. I mean, forget it. Okay, so it's my store.com. You got to use the code, Eric.

But my books are there. The prices are, they've never, ever been close to this. So I'm letting you know. Remember, if you. want to come on the cruise with us, it is not sold out. You go to the website, ericmetaxis.com slash cruise, but you got to call the number, Ericmetaxis.com slash cruise. And most important, food for the poor, please go to metaxis talk.com. Click on the banner. We need your help. God bless you. Numbers don't lie. The impact that balance of nature makes

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Eric to get 35% off plus free shipping and their money back guarantee. You must use my discount code. Eric, call them at 800-2468-751 and use discount code Eric or order online at balance to nature.com. Use discount code Eric to get 35% off plus free shipping balance of nature.com. A generation of kids in El Salvador are lost to malnutrition and the only way to a better future is through a school feeding program. Join me, Eric Metaxus, in saving lives with food for the poor. When you click the Feed Their Future banner at MetaxistalksTalk.com, your gift of $100 will provide a child in El Salvador with daily school nutrition for a year. Call 844-863-4673.

Make your most generous contribution, please. The nutrition these kids get in school is often their only meal of the day. Food for the Poor School Nutrition Program effectively addresses malnutrition and increases. children's school attendance. Your donation will also support local farmers who produce the nutritional supplements. You are needed to improve children's nutrition in El Salvador. Your gift will allow them to focus on learning rather than worrying about their next meal. Today, you have the power to feed a child or an entire classroom for a year. Please click the blue banner at metaxis talk.com or call 844-863-4-6-73 with a gift of $100 to feed their future. Welcome back.

Many of you know my friend, Dr. Frank. What's his name? Never, I can never, I can never remember it. I believe it's Turek, but don't check me. We have Frank gone all the time. I've been friends with Frank Turek for years and years and years. And he has just written the forward to a book that obviously he recommends very, very highly. And I thought if Frank wrote the forward to a book, I'm interested in having the author of that book

on my program. Therefore, I have as my guest for this hour, Natasha Crane, Natasha Crane, welcome to this program. Thank you so much. Anybody that Frank recommends, I'm like, I'm all in. And he obviously wrote the forward to your book. Now, the title of book, great title, When Culture Hates You, When Culture Hates You. So what led you to write this book with this title? Well, in the last few years, as I've been,

speaking at conferences and out engaging with Christians, I have found that there has been this increasing theme over time that people are noticing the hostility toward Christians. So I meet many people who have been cut off by their family. They've been cut off by their friends. In some cases, they've lost jobs or maybe they're having trouble getting jobs in the first place because they refuse to adhere to some kind of ideology that they disagree with. And so as I started noticing this, I realized that a lot of Christians don't really understand where the hostility is coming from. It's sort of a, a, a, point of bafflement, if you will, where they're saying, you know, why is it that people can't just say,

well, I think you're wrong in some way, intellectually speaking, you know, I don't believe in all this Christianity stuff. Why is it that it's not that? But instead, it's, you're harmful, you're toxic, you're an oppressor. So it takes on this moral connotation. So I realize that there was a need to help Christians better understand why is there this cultural hostility today. And then as the corollary to that, even if there is this hostility, what does that mean for us as Christians in the public square. Should we just be quiet or do we still need to be salt and light in spite of what we're experiencing? So the book really has those two things wrapped together. Well, it's interesting because I had the author, John West was on this program recently. He wrote a book called Stockholm

Syndrome Christianity, which is kind of the flip side of what you're talking about. It's how many kind of Christians who are kind of cozying up to the elites, they want to be loved by the world. and therefore they're willing to be quiet about basic Christian doctrine or basic moral doctrine, which comes out of our Christian faith, because they want to be loved by the world and by the cultural elites. And Stockholm Syndrome Christianity talks about that. So it's really the same issue in a different way, the way you're framing it. Right.

I'm actually in the middle of reading that book. It's a very good book. But I completely agree with him that so much of what we're seeing is, is a problem within the church, that we have leaders who aren't willing to speak up and to disciple the church and to realizing that we aren't supposed to be liked all the time by the world. I mean, Jesus was the one who said it 2,000 years ago. If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own.

So if we think about that, you know, a lot of people don't want to think about the word hate. It feels like this really harsh word. And I've heard that from a lot of people. But we have to understand that Jesus was warning his disciples that this. would happen. And we have a lot of leaders today who would rather encourage people to just be nice and kind of sit back and just make sure that people like us, that we don't want to, we don't to get out there, we don't want to get too political, all these kinds of warnings that we get today. But we were told to expect something very different. We are going to offend people when we

shine light in the darkness. And listen, folks, this is not exactly something new. I wrote a biography of William Wilberforce called Amazing Grace. And it's the story of a man who comes to faith in Jesus Christ in 1785 and immediately knows he must stand against the slave trade in the British Empire. Now, today we all go, yeah, yeah, awesome, great. In his day, he was going up against satanic principalities. And tons and tons of people hated his guts for standing up for what the Bible says about the least of these, about loving our neighbor,

all the stuff the Bible says was offensive to them. And he had to go to political war with these people because he knew that to do what God calls me to do, there will be opposition. He didn't have some polliana, you know, ridiculous view that, oh, I can win over the elites. Well, you can always win over some, but many are just kind of hate your guts

because you're standing up for what God cares about. And so you go through history, you see this over and over and over. But it seems like we have to every generation has to learn this, Natasha, that when you stand up for what God wants you to stand up for, there are plenty of people that they're going to be, they're going to see you as the enemy. That's always the way it's been. And that ought to galvanize us to do the right thing rather than bow to what the culture is trying to dictate. Well, slavery is a really interesting example. I use this in the book and suggest to people that when you hear objections to you, you,

objections to Christians getting involved in politics and in the public swear, try using this as a test case. Say, Christians shouldn't have worked to end slavery because, and then fill in the blank with that objection. So, for example, one of the objections we often hear is, oh, Christians are just seeking power when we try to advocate for righteousness in society. That's a popular objection you hear, even from a lot of Christian leaders. But try it with that objection first, that when Christians worked to end slavery, they shouldn't have done so because they shouldn't have been seeking power. Well, we understand today that that sounds ridiculous, right? Because of course, we should have still fought to end slavery. It's an objectively evil institution. No one has a problem with that

today. And yet we still, when it's in today's context and the issues that are popular today, the hot topics, then we have people saying, oh, don't seek power. But power is just the ability and the authority to execute a governing role. It's not inherently bad or good. You want to steward it well. and that's what Christians should be seeking to do. We should want the power to do what's good in God's eyes. Well, this is why when people like Russell Moore and others, Andy Stanley, have said, oh, you just want power. I'm just going to tell you, folks, that's the voice of the devil.

That's the voice of the devil. Because that same voice was speaking to Christians in 1860 and saying, no, no, no, no, no, we don't take an issue on slavery. We don't, you, you just want power. Forget that. Just preach the gospel. That's the voice of the devil. Who'd be thrilled for you to stick to your narrow little gospel when he wants you to stand

against the satanic evil of slavery or the slave trade. And in our own day, it's the same thing. But that's just the voice of the devil. I say that bluntly because that's what it is. And you can have Christians giving voice to what the devil wants. I mean, that's ultimately we're talking about. It's kind of funny, Natasha, because that's the example I use all the time. I've been speaking about this issue for a couple of years.

I wrote a book called Letter to the American Church, where I basically trying to reason with Christians and saying, listen, where did you get this idea that you're not supposed to be political? Slavery was a political issue. And you had people in that time saying, oh, well, we don't take a stand. We don't take an issue. We don't get into that issue. And you think, what kind of moral midgets are you?

What kind of Christians could you be? And so there's nothing new. So it's thrilling to me that in your book, you focus on this. that's the litmus test. You know, are you going to be involved in politics? What about slavery? Is that a good reason to try to advocate for certain candidates and to push against other candidates? I think it is. Now, the title of your book is when culture hates you. And so there's a lot more in the book. So where else can we go with this? Well, the first five chapters of the book just kind of set up the principles that we have to understand about how we need to advocate for the common good. And what does

that mean? What does that look like? And the second half of the book gets into five individual issues where Christians are particularly hated today when we do get out there in the public square and breaks those issues down to explain to Christians. Here's why the culture hates us on those topics. And here's how we can better respond to them. But I think in the first half of the book, the issue of the common good is a really important one to talk about because this is where Christians today are getting so confused. And a lot of times, a lot of times Christians will hear other people's views, non-believers views even, and they say, well, you know, that they believe that. They think that's what's good for society. And they started thinking, well, then if other people

have different views, then who are we to impose our views on others? We hear this all the time. But we have to get really clear as Christians that, yes, people have different ideas of what good is, what's going to be for the common good in society. But at the end of the day, there's only one actual good. And for Christians, that has to be the good that is based on God himself. He is the one who sets the standard for good. People will call good evil and evil good, as the Bible says, but we have to be really clear on what's actually good. And what that ends up meaning that I think is difficult for a lot of Christians is that

when we're advocating for what is truly good, a lot of people think that that's for their bad. So when you take the trans issues, for example, transgender identifying people a lot of times are going to say, yeah, what's good for me is that you give me the freedom and the flexibility to be my authentic self, to be who I know that I am. you're trying to stop this. You're trying to block me from living my truth. You hear these things all a time. Well, as Christians, we should be advocating against things like puberty blockers for

minors and against men, biological men and women's sports. We should be advocating against those things. We're going to be called anti-trans for that, but it's actually good for transgender identifying people and good for everyone else. So a lot of times when you advocate for what's objectively good for people is against what they want for themselves. And we're good as Christians today of understanding the implications of that. We think that if people say, no, that's not what I want. That's bad. We kind of shrink back and go, well, then maybe I'm not doing the right thing. Our standards have to be based on what God says. Yeah, that's kind of like if you're, if your five-year-old really wants a gun for Christmas, do you give in? Do you give them a loaded gun?

No, you don't. Why? Because you love your child. That's why you say no, because you want to bless your child. We'll be right back talking to Natasha Cran. C-R-A-I-N. The book is When Culture Hates You. MyPillow is excited to announce they're extending the mega sale on overstock clearance and brand-new products. This is your chance to grab incredible deals on some of MyPillows most popular and newly released items. For example, save $40 on the new Spring My Pillow bed sheets available in any size, any color. These luxurious sheets are designed for maximum comfort and breathability, perfect for a great night's sleep. Looking for a meaningful gift, save 30% on the brand-new MyCquist.

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MyPillow.com, promo code Eric, or call 800-978-3057 to order now. Mypillow.com. Welcome back. We're talking to Natasha Crane, C-R-A-I-N, and the book is When Culture Hates You. So say more about what's in the book. It's just loaded with important information, especially for where we are right now in the culture. So after I set up in the first half of the book, the different principles about Christians getting involved in the public square. Then I go on to these individual issues. And the first chapter

in that second section is called Dangerous Christian Nationalists. So all of these chapters in the second section are titled according to how the secular culture sees us. So they see us as dangerous Christian nationalists. That's the view from mainstream media, as I put it. And so I really dug into this whole subject because stay a lot of times, what you hear is that if you're advocating in some way for righteousness according to biblical values. And that's unpopular as a position. People will use this pejorative of Christian nationalism. And yet no one really stops to define it.

So I always tell people if they ask, well, what do you think about Christian nationalism? Well, what do you mean by Christian nationalism, right? Because everyone has a completely different definition of it. So what I did is I actually took hundreds of different examples that I surveyed from mainstream media, both in written content and in video content, to see what do they mean by this dangerous, pervasive, theocratic, anti-democratic Christian nationalism, as they call it. And when you do that and you look at the examples that they provide in their content that they're labeling with this banner of Christian nationalism, what you find in the vast majority of the cases is that they're just referring to when Christians are advocating for unpopular conservative positions according to biblical values.

In the vast majority of cases, that's what it is. They call that anti-democratic because they think that somehow you're violating this idea of separation of church and state. But that's just a misunderstanding of what it means to live in a constitutional republic. When we're advocating for our views, we're actually using our democracy exactly as it's intended to be used. We're not going around the governing structure and trying to do something else to impose our values in a way that contradicts our government. We're using it just as it's intended to be used. It's also not a theocracy when you're advocating according to your biblical values. A theocracy is actually a formal kind of government where you're formally recognizing a deity.

That's not what most Christians are advocating for. So at the end of the day, this really comes down to a pejorative term against Christians bringing their values in the public square, which we all have the right to do. What I always say is, you know, people say, what's Christian nationalism? I say it's the devil's invented term for actual Christians living out their faith. It's just, it's a term designed to get you to stop doing that. Don't do, don't live out your faith. And again, you know, if you're talking about what a lot of people mean by Christian nationalism, like, oh, you're going to impose your values, we have to even talk about what do you mean

impose our values. If somebody, you know, and there are lunatics like this, that they don't like democracy, they don't like our system, and they would like to impose their values, most Christians that I know would go to war with that. We would never say, well, that's good. We're going to force people to do what we, if you force people, then it's not authentic. We do believe in what the Constitution teaches, in religious liberty, that we have liberty. I have the liberty to go to church and to advocate for my values. I have the liberty, never to go to church. I have the liberty to be a Muslim. I have the liberty to be. We believe in that. And so you get people that, they don't want to hear

that. They just want to pretend that if you're advocating for God's purposes in a healthy way, that's just bad. And they're going to very sloppily, you know, conflate legitimate advocacy in the political sphere, which we all have the right to do with somehow imposing our views. And that relies on ignorance, folks. You have to understand. You're often talking to people who are ignorant. They really don't understand what the Constitution says, how are our, our government is supposed to work. They don't have a clue. So they throw around these cliches. And the bottom line is they don't like what you're advocating for. So they try to make it sound hateful and nefarious and evil and sinister. And all you're trying to do is bless them. And that's again, Natasha,

what's so funny is that, you know, when we advocate for what we care about, it's not about aggrandizing power for ourselves. It's about doing the right thing for so that everyone can flourish. You know, And as you said before, if you're talking to trans kids or kids or kids that are diluted into thinking that we're trying to help them. So they may disagree or some people may disagree, but we are genuinely trying to help them. This is not about harming people. But I think the issue, because we mentioned the book Stockholm Christianity, the issue is that many Christian leaders are complicit with this way of thinking. I mentioned Russell Moore. He's the editor of Christianity today.

that magazine has totally gone over to the dark side. Wheaton College, other institutions that were once rock solid, have gone completely wobbly and have opened the door to culturally Marxist ideas coming in. They've opened the door. They're very themselves confused. So I think the first thing I say to Christians is you need to get out of a church that is not clear on this kind of thing, that is not preaching what Natasha is saying in her book or what I say in my recent books,

because there are many Christians complicit with the evil that we're describing. It's such a huge problem. And actually, Andy Stanley, he had a book called Not In It to Win It. Oh. I had a whole podcast episode. I grown. I grown. I'm going to tell you my story with that, but you go first.

And when we come back, I'll tell you my story. Well, I grown also. I have a podcast. And on that podcast, I did a whole episode dedicated to just breaking down of the biblical, logical, and civic errors with that book, not in it to win it. I mean, even if you think of the title, you know, you're groaning at the title. I think we should grown at the title because why should we be ashamed to win in some way when it's winning for the objective good of society and restraining evil, which is what

Romans 13 says is the purpose of government anyway. And so much of this does come from within the church because when you have these leaders who are trying to make you think that, you know, you just need to preach the gospel, they're leaving a lot out of the gospel. It's a very limited understanding of the gospel because there are many truths that underlie the gospel and many truths that flow from it. And so I was going to ask people, what do you think the gospel is? Because once you put your trust in Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you're going to demonstrate your love for him by following his commands. Two greatest commandments to love God and to love others.

Well, part of how you love others is caring about the quality of their lives in the context of the society in which they live. We're talking to Natasha Crane. She's got a podcast. and she has a new book out called When Culture Hates You with a forward by our friend, Dr. Frank Turrick. So you were talking about one of the principal villains in the story here in the church in America, Andy Stanley, who wrote a book, not in it to win it. I read that book just as I was submitting my manuscript for my book, Letter to the American Church. And that book says the exact opposite of everything I say in my book. It is a mess, historical mess, theological,

mess. And there's always half truths in every lie. And that's what's so deceptive to people because they go, yeah, that sounds right. Yeah, that sounds right. It is so damaging. I mean, in that book, he's basically saying Christians shouldn't be active politically. Now, if you're not active politically for God's purposes, the enemy's purposes will win. And that has happened largely as a result of pastors like Andy Stanley and Christian leaders like Russell Moore and David French. They have misled Christians down this path. And it has done tremendous harm. And I just, I'm so glad that many people are waking up. But I always say, folks, if you're going to a church that's turning a blind eye to this stuff, you're part of the problem. You're part of the problem. If you cannot get your pastor to speak

boldly on this kind of stuff, then I don't really know why you're giving God's money, tithing, and spending your time there. I don't get it. Natasha, your book is titled, When Culture, hates you. Let's keep going about what is in your book. So after the Christian nationalism chapter, then I talk about other issues. For example, the chapter after that is about power hungry oppressors. That's how we're seen from the view of secular social justice activists. And so if you think about the justice issues that we see today, this is one where Christians are very, very confused. And a lot of it does come from, again, within the church.

Because we see that this is how culture defines what justice. is. And we don't really understand how that differs because we have not been thinking deeply about these topics. And so we get sucked into other views that are actually based on neo-Marxism. And so what I talk about in that chapter is to help Christians understand, well, what really is the difference? And you can talk a very long time about this subject because it's quite complex. But I boil it down to this. Justice is making right, that which is wrong. That concept inherently depends on some kind of standard. It requires a standard to determine what is right and wrong in the first place.

So as Christians, of course, God has to be our standard in all things. But if you're secular culture and you're using any standard other than God's standard to determine what's right and wrong, many times you're going to get justice wrong. I say many times because sometimes it can happen to a line. I get the example in the book of, you know, if you're advocating for a soup kitchen and you're advocating for justice for homeless people, for example, culture's still going to be okay with that. They're not going to hate you for it because that still lines up with how they're defining justice. But when it comes to other areas, like abortion, for example, what you see is that culture is defining justice based on the standard of the social binary.

So they're looking at these groups in terms of oppressor and oppressed in the case of gender. It's men are the oppressors and women are the oppressed. And that's how you get concepts like reproductive justice, which of course is a euphemism for abortion. Well, any Christian should understand that that is not actual justice. This should not be a biblical version of justice. to have the right to kill your pre-born baby. But secular culture believes that's justice because they're using the wrong standard

of the social binary to determine what is actually oppressive. So they see us as power-hungry oppressors, as Christians who want to impose our norms, our values, our expectations on others. As Christians, we have to be really clear that justice has to be defined based on God's standards. People can be well-meaning. They can think that they're actually advocating truly for justice,

that they can be advocating for true injustices. I mean, I think, you know, you were just touching on it a moment ago. Whenever you hear anyone who has bought into the idea of oppressor and oppressed, ladies and gentlemen, this has come into the church, right? Oh, you're in a powerful position and the person below you is not in a powerful position. That kind of binary oppressor, oppressed, that is marked. That is cultural Marxism. And right away, folks, you need to know that is satanic. That is atheistic, cultural Marxism. God doesn't exist in that equation. So the fact that Christians could be foolish enough to

import this kind of thinking, it's not God's way of thinking. And so God's way of thinking is that if men are real men, they will bless women. If women will be the women God created them to be, they will bless men. God's economy is totally different. So this Marxist view of things, it is really evil. And you hear it, but you hear it a lot in churches. They talk about the power dynamic. As soon as you hear that, I say, the bells go off, the red flags go up.

You're talking about a power dynamic. They talk about stuff like clerical abuse, pastoral. I think you're inventing terms now. You're not speaking clearly. and you're creating this Marxist way of thinking, which is the devil's way of thinking. But this has infiltrated the church. And it leads to this idea that the culture can like me. I want the culture to like me.

And I can go along with these bad ideas. The book is when culture hates you. Let's keep going on what is in the book, Natasha. I wanted to just jump off one thing you said really quickly, though, you know, when you're talking about these power dynamics, I think. that's exactly the source of the thinking that leads us back to what we talked about earlier, about power being inherently bad in some people's minds. I think that they've absorbed this neo-Marxist way of thinking that, oh, power dynamics, that, you know, if you have power,

this is a bad thing. They're thinking of this in terms of this whole neo-Marxist structure. And then they apply that in a different context to power in general in society. And they say, oh, well, we shouldn't seek power. Power is somehow a bad thing. So people are conflating these things because this thinking has seeped into the church. The chapter after that I talk about abortion and the title of that chapter is controlling misogynist because that is how the culture sees us, that we're not out there defending babies in their minds. And their minds are seeing us as people who are trying to control women.

And it goes back to the same Marxist way of thinking. It's that, oh, well, you somehow want to control a woman's body if you are advocating for the life of the baby. And of course, that's not how as pro-life people we see it. but that is the culture's view. But I think this subject is actually one of the most interesting in terms of wanting Christians to really understand where the mindset of culture is. Because for the most part, people who are pro choice are not out there saying, yes, I really want to kill babies. For the most part, that is not the mentality.

Now, of course, that is actually what they're advocating for when you get down to it. But from their perspective, they're advocating for what they believe to be good because they believe that pro-life policies will harm women. So they see this primarily as a subject of harm to women, whereas pro-lifers are seeing it primarily and rightfully as harm to the baby who's being killed. But when we understand a woman in utero, we'll be right back, folks. I'm talking to Natasha Crane. The book is When Culture Hates here. Okay, we have four minutes. So whatever you want to throw in, I'll just, I'll just, I'll toss to you and we'll keep talking. Okay.

For another four minutes. Okay. Here we go. Welcome back talking to Natasha Crane, C-R-A-I-N. The new book, very excited, Natasha. Congratulations on the book. It's called When Culture Hates You. This is like a bracing corrective for those in the church who think that the culture is supposed

to like me. It doesn't quite work that way. It doesn't work that way at all. And like we talked about earlier, Jesus said that we should be expecting that we would get some of this hate. And I think when you say corrective, I think that's a good word for it because, you know, something that's been very prevalent in the church has been this curriculum by some of the leaders that you mentioned, Russell Moore, Curtis Chang and David French have this after-party curriculum that came out. And I, it was everywhere in the church leading up to the election.

And unfortunately, it was basically advocating for the idea that it's more important how we discuss these issues of politics than the issues themselves. the content of what we're advocating for. And I think this is so misguided. I can't imagine how people cannot see through this, to be honest. Because if you think about the issues we've been talking about, like we were just talking about the issue of abortion, for example, is it really more important that Christians are advocating with the right tone

than that we're advocating for the right thing for babies to live? How can we say that? And that's not to say, oh, we shouldn't have the right tone. Yeah, we don't want to be jerks, right? We don't want to do this in a way that dishonors God. The message is offensive enough to people. We don't need to be offensive as the messengers. People are going to hate it, but we don't want to deliver it in an ungracious way.

That said, of course the content of what we're advocating for matters. Of course, we need to be advocating for what is objectively good in society. So I just think that the after-party curriculum is another example of how the leaders in the church are misleading us. And they also took this presentations to all kinds of universities. And we're presenting this to college students. It was supported by all kinds of different areas within the church. And we have to be really careful to think deeply about what we're hearing because it sounds good. I wrote extensively about it on my website actually and broke down all the problems with it.

And it sounds good at first because people in the church like to say, oh, yes, you know, yes, of course we want to watch our tone and we want to be nice. We don't want to be polarizing. Well, truth is going to be polarizing. Let's be polarizing. Just make sure we're polarizing in the right way and advocating for the right things according to God's standards. Yeah, the bottom line is we don't want Satan to win, folks. And if you are so worried about your tone that you don't speak, you're helping Satan to win. And what does that mean?

It means people are harmed. It means people in the very culture that they may hate you publicly. You're trying to bless them. When Christians get involved in politics, real Christians, slavery gets abolished, folks. Hospitals get built. The poor get fed. That's what happens when Christians, quote, unquote, get power. So this idea that we're not supposed to have power, it's such garbage.

It's gaslighting. And it's really just the enemy, often using the voices of Christians, to fool us into silence, to get us to be quiet. So the book is called When Culture Hates You, Natasha Crane, the author, what is your website? You said you blog about this or you have a podcast. How can people find Natasha Crane? Yeah, so the website is just my name, Natasha Crane. C-R-A-I-N-com. The podcast is the Natasha Crane podcast.

And if you go to the blog on my website, if you're interested in reading in-depth about the after-party book, you can do that there. Just search for the after-party. I've also written about he gets us campaign and how that has also been a way that people have been discouraged on a broader scale through these types of advertisements

and the kind of progressive Jesus that they are promoting. And so you can read my in-depth articles about that as well there. Well, I want to make sure people, spell Natasha correctly also. It's N-A-T-A-S-I-A. S-H-A. Aha. You see, folks, I've been misinformed. So it's Natasha, the normal spelling. Natasha Crane, C-R-A-I-N. Natasha Crane C-R-A-I-N. It's just a blessing to introduce you, Natasha, to my audience. We need to know whom to follow, whom to read. The brand new book. folks get a copy for your pastor when culture hates you natasha crane thank you so much great talking

with you thank you