The Eric Metaxas Show - Norman Stone (continued)

Episode Date: November 12, 2021

Norman Stone continues his discussion of his new hit film, "The Most Reluctant Convert," as well as the next intriguing production in the pipeline.

to the Eric Mattaxas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Uh-oh. Uh-oh. You know what today is? I do. It's Thursday, and this happens to be hour two. You know what happens on hour two on Thursdays? Yes, did you guess?

It's our Ask Mataxis segment. It's where you ask me hard-hitting, journalistic questions, and I try to come up with some kind of an answer. And these are sent in by the listeners, so these are real. That would be you folks. Okay, here we go. Question number one. What do you think is the most important chapter in Is Atheism Dead and Why? Well, you know, I get this asked about, like, what's your favorite book of all your children?

Which one would you kill if you were forced to? You know, like, how do you answer these questions? I don't think that there's a, I mean, I would say, I always say that probably the introduction or the first chapter that sets everything up is the most important because the thesis of the book is that atheism really is intellectually now dead. the science that we've had in the last 50 years, it's like game over. And if you want to be an agnostic, great. But like, a lot of people won't get that.

So you really need to, like, deal with the facts. So probably the introduction of the first chapter. Okay. Question number two. Have you watched the new Dave Chappelle special? No. What are your opinions on him being canceled by the transgender community for his comedy? Well, I think it's great when the woke mob comes after somebody like Dave Chappelle.

I mean, it's a little bit like when they come after me, you look at them like, I know you're crazy and I'm not going to, you know, like if I do something wrong, I will repent because I care about what God thinks. But do I care about what crazy people think, like cultural Marxists who are trying to cancel me? I care about what God thinks. So Dave Chappelle is one of these people who somehow is self-confident enough to say, I'm not going to play this game. I refuse to play this game. And by God's grace, he's big enough that he can get away with us. And we need more people like Dave Chappelle. A lot more like Dave Chappelle.

Hey, I'm talking to you, listener. Are you letting people push you around? Are you worried? Are you speaking out, speaking the truth, and worrying about what God thinks of what you say? Next question. Yes. Okay. How would you respond to the claim that atheism is in fact not dead?

A lot of people say that. I'm not saying that people can't claim to be atheists. I mean, there are a lot of people. I think there are a lot of atheists, not all, obviously, but there are a lot of atheists who are actually just really angry at God and hate Christians. And so they call themselves atheists, but they don't behave like atheists. They behave like anti-deists or whatever, and they're just mean and angry. That's not really, that doesn't make sense.

So I would say intellectually, atheism is dead. I make the case in my book. If you read the book and are open-minded and can tell me where I'm wrong, I'm open to hearing from you. But I think intellectually, based on the evidence that I give in the book, you've just got to say like it's no longer on the table. But that doesn't mean that atheists aren't going to still self-identify. I mean, look, there are people who say the earth is flat. And so you say, is flat earthism dead? On the one hand, yes.

On the other hand, there's still people claiming that. So, okay, next question. Next question. Three words. Favorite alcoholic beverage. Oh, Hawaiian. lunch and grain alcohol. Every night, otherwise I don't sleep. Just kidding. No, seriously, look, you can't write a 500-page biography of Martin Luther and not say beer, right? Also, I'm a, you know,

I wanted Brett Kavanaugh to become a Supreme Court justice, so beer is the answer. But, you know, also, I, you know, I'm clearly a sophisticated Manhattanite Christian intellectual. And so to go along with that, an extra dirty vodka martini with three olives is the other answer. Now, if Antoine from Bride's Head Revisited were to be asked this question, his answer would be Brandy Alexander. Yum. But anyway, that's my answer. Okay.

This kind of dovetails here. How do you stay away from temptation when sin seems to surround me in an increasingly secular world? Well, I mean, I think it's always the same. Look, there's a reason if you're serious about God, if you call yourself a Christian, you need to spend time around people who love Jesus. If you don't do that, you're going to be affected by whoever you're with. So I'm not saying that all your friends have to be Christians, obviously, but I'm saying that you need to spend time with those people

because they make it seem normal not to sin, or they have healthy outlets. They understand these things. And I think that that's kind of the most important thing. And, you know, Jesus said if your hand offends, you cut it off, meaning that you have to take this seriously. And if there's something in your life that may lead you down a bad path, you need you to take that seriously and cut it off at the pass and don't go down there.

You need to know yourself. That's my short answer. I found some of the solution is in all of Romans chapter 6, by the way. Okay, next question is question number six. What would be the best way to get rid of toxic friends that are keeping you from God? Look, I've known Chris Heimes for like 20 years. Me too. And it's hard to have to cut him out of my life. I'm just not ready to do that yet, but I know that I will.

No, okay, so this is a serious question. Toxic friends, first of all, you have to know what that is. There are people, I think there are a lot of Christians who have bad theology and they think it's good to argue with people about God. I think that if there are people in your life that don't want to hear about Jesus or they're really just, they're hostile to your faith, I think you need to take that as a sign that maybe you need to let them go. because if anybody is in my life who's not a Christian,

I can still have wonderful relationships, but there are people that, and this isn't just for Christianity, but if there are people that are a suck on your faith, or if they bring you down, you need to take that seriously about either maybe confronting them and saying, listen, I don't see joy, I don't see faith, I don't see hope, it's hurting me. And if it hurts me, I'm dragging that into my life

and it's affecting other people. So we kind of have responsibility, you know, whether it's somebody who's a believer or a non-believer to take our own mental and spiritual and emotional health seriously. So you kind of have to know yourself. Okay. What is a piece of advice for a new convert to Christianity? Get out as soon as you can. Go. It's trouble.

It's a cult, obviously. A new convert to Christianity. Well, I say this, you know, I've said this stuff before. You need to understand that being a Christian, you know, is a full-time job. It's not just like a thing you do on Sunday or you say you believe these things. You want your whole life to be suffused with God's influence. And so what does that mean?

I think it means reading the Bible every day, getting a couple of sermons a week that are biblically based, having regular prayer times, often with other people. It's a really great way to do it. But that's like normative Christianity. That's not extracredit Christianity. And so I say to somebody, I've seen people become converts and it just drifts. It just evaporates from their lives. You need to take it seriously.

And Billy Graham always said, witness to other people, tell other people about Jesus. Don't pretend like, it's optional. It's just something. It's, you know, it's my personal philosophy. I don't want to bother you with it. If it's true, it's the greatest thing imaginable. And if you don't know that, I would say maybe you're not a Christian. You should think about that.

Okay. What books would you recommend? Oh my gosh. That's such a serious question. It's a big one too. My favorite books are like probably the Narnia Chronicles. I didn't read them until I was 30. I think they are some of the most beautiful. As an adult, I mean, I've written a lot of children's books

and I've read a lot of, you know, fairy tales. And like it's a different genre. It's not really, even C.S. Lewis writes about this. It's not really for kids. And the Narnia Chronicles are magnificent. So in the interest of time, I will say that for now. Okay. Will you release a revised version of Bonhofer relating to these times?

Okay. That's a crazy question. What does that even mean? How could I release a revised version relating to these times? It's a biography of a dude who lived and died many years ago. So how could I revise that? Like, it's a biography? Hey, I'm talking to you.

What kind of a question is? No, it's very confusing. I don't understand the question. You talk about that on your book tours, which is last. question here. How is your book tour going? The book tour, yeah, I've, I've clearly worn myself down. I've been traveling a lot. It's going really wonderfully, and people are responding to this book in a dramatically positive way. Oh, we're at a time. We'll be back with Norman Stone. Hey, folks, I've got to tell you a secret about relief factor that the father, son, owners, Pete and

Seth Talbot have never made a big deal about, but I think it is a big deal. I really do. They sell the three-week quick start pack for just 1995 to anyone struggling from pain like neck, shoulder, back, hip, or knee pain, 1995, about a dollar a day. But what they haven't broadcasted much is that every time they sell a three-week quick start, they lose money. In fact, they don't even break even even until about four to five months after if you keep ordering it. Friends, that's huge. People don't keep ordering relief factor month after month if it doesn't work. So yes, Pete and Seth are literally on a mission to help as many people as possible deal with their pain. They really do put their money where their mouths are. So if you're in pain from exercise or even just getting older,

order the three-week quick start for 1995. Let's see if we can get you at a pain too. Go to relieffactor.com. Relieffactor.com or call 800, 500,000, 8384, 800,5008384. Relieffactor.com. I use it. It works. Folks, welcome to the rest of the conversation with my friend Norman Stone film director most recently of the most reluctant convert. Now, we have to explain to people that is a line, the title, The Most Reluctant Convert about C.S. Lewis is a line from his book, surprised by joy. And you use, you and Max McLean use huge amounts of what Lewis himself said, and you put it in the mouth of Max McLean as the actor. but that's that famous line where he talks about God kind of... In the Trinity term of 1929, I was dragged kicking and screaming into the kingdom of heaven,

perhaps the most reluctant convert in the whole of England. Actually, I think he says the most miserable and reluctant converse. I had to cut the time. I had to cut the time. No, no, I know, I know. But last night when I watched it, I thought, oh, yeah, there was even another adjective, but for the title, it's the most reluctant convert. But it's interesting, though, because it speaks to so many of us

who've been converted later in life the way I was, that you can't pretend you wanted it. Sometimes you don't want it. It's a real mystery. And for Lewis, he didn't want it. That's right. He didn't want to give up his, he had a space, he said, my area, keep out.

He didn't want God taking his life. I have some, in my own journey, have some sympathy with that. The idea of saying, let me be me. don't just go away and God didn't go away he patted behind him and took over in the end

which is a he speaks to our time he speaks about these things so well and so honestly it's like having a friend when you read Sears Lewis tell you his innermost thoughts and makes you smile and go deeper in your own thinking as well

I'm sounding as if I'm doing a promo for the man himself I guess I am I have yet to fault his honesty and that's what you need if you're going to talk about God. Well, that's what's so beautiful, and that's what's beautiful about the film. And again, we're talking about the most reluctant convert, which you can

find. It's playing in theaters. Masses of them. But it's... Do we know how many theaters in America? Listen, you're talking to a Brit here. And when they said they were going to have a little launch... You know, I expect to... And they did have a red carpet at Century City in L.A. and things. But they said, oh, it's going to be in 300 cities, and some cities have got

loads of cinemas. And I say, I'm sure. You know, I had imagined this on streaming or television or whatever. They said, no, no, no, we're going to do it. It ended up with 500 cities. It ended up being sold out three weeks before we started four times. It's just, they're still down the road extending it further and further. So now the one night only has gone an extra two weeks to November the 18th.

I did not know this. This is thrilling. It's just gone crazy. Well, when Max was on here, it was just one night. Yeah, that was the plan, but let me tell you, we ended up on that night coming the second most watched film in the whole of the country

and we made, I think it was 1.2 million or something, that's my budget probably, in the first evening. Now, everyone was clamoring for more. Canada was clamoring for more. We've just gone from 14 screens to 86 screens in England,

and they are very undemonstrable people. It just keeps on spreading. So I've got a tiger by, the tale, and I'm delighted that people are so fascinated. Well, I can't believe how wonderful this is. The Most Reluctant Convert is the film. So we were talking about his journey, but there are these moments. I feel like I know them because I've read it so many times,

or I've seen the Most Reluctant Convert on stage, or I don't know where, you hear things over and over and over again, and we were watching the film last night, and I realized I know exactly what's coming next. Now, most people won't. but that's a big moment for him he's on the top of a bus and he kind of lets god in then uh he talks about well then he has what i love is that he goes for a walk with jr r tolkeen now this is something that i could get choked up about it there's a place i've been many times in fact i've

been there probably with you. Yes, once. Yeah. And with Max McLean, I've been to this place. This is right behind Lewis's rooms at Marlund College, and it is called Addison's Walk. And it's a magical place, and he would go for long walks there. And one night, he goes for a walk. I mean, I've written about this, and I think my book Miracles, he goes for a walk. He goes for a walk with. He goes for a walk with, Tolkien, not with Dyson, right? Just with Tolkien. Just talking. Dyson, we've met them later. So we think about this, the man who wrote, you know, my gosh, the greatest, the Lord of the Rings trilogy, some of the greatest books of the 20th century, they are young men,

and they're walking together talking. So talk about that conversation. Well, the interesting thing is that they were genuinely good, very good friends. Tolkien, however, was a believing Christian. Lewis was embattled about those things And I use a part of his journey at that point When they do this walk, leaves are blowing And he talks about it so well It's like he wrote the script

And he says Toller's, I've come to believe in God And Tolkien is, really? He says, yeah, but not in Jesus Christ, not all that stuff I've been dragged into deism and Tolkien, bless him, just didn't give up and he just said this, this, this, what about that, and answered his questions.

And there was a point where, according to his book, he stopped. He said, it was a gust of wind, so many leaves fell, I thought it was raining. And it just went click. Now that still was just another step towards becoming a Christian. But it was an important one. And I love the fact that Toler's Tolkien and Dyson and so on were faithful but not over pushy.

They answered the questions. Take a lesson, folks. Not over pushy. Or not even pushy at all. Let's have another show. But no, it's very important, I think, to listen as well as to talk. I'm a talker like you are. But the idea of when people are in a certain place,

you've got to spend the time to listen. And this was used to him to come through. And can you imagine the change when he realizes that Christ, this is his savior, and he comes through, as you might say, as a Christian. It was a momentous change, and he hit another gear, maybe two other gears, and shut off into the future of his books. Into the Imperian. Let me say this, that that moment, the reason it's beautiful to me, because I'm, of course, a writer, is that you have Tolkien appealing to something beyond logic.

In other words, he says to Lewis, you know, and this is famous, But he says to Lewis, listen, you love all of these myths. You read the Norse legends. You read about balder, the beautiful, is dead, is dead. You read about these gods dying and rising, and it moves you. And he says it's the same thing with the myth of Christ, except this is the one myth that actually happened in history. And you think, wow, what an idea.

And that's exactly, I mean, just to think that it took the genius, of Tolkien, who knows a little bit about these things, to communicate this to the genius called C.S. Lewis, and that something clicked and he was never again the same. He wasn't. If they were doing sparring partners, that was a pretty good punch, because it was right where Lewis's heart and mind and soul were at that time. It's a fascinating journey.

And with the technique I'm using with Lewis himself, walking around, watching these things, reliving these things, it's quite a different angle in a way because we're watching him, watching him, and he's telling us what it was like. I think the other moment that I remember from surprised by Joy, but these things become mythic,

where he says that he was on a trip to the Wipsnade Zoo with his brother Warnie. Warnie is driving the motorcycle, And this is what, 1931? Yeah, about that. So it has a side car. It's kind of funny thing. It's been a long time since we ever seen side cars.

But he is driving. Lewis never drove in his whole life. No, he walked a lot. He walked a lot, but he did not drive ever. And he is in the sidecar of this motorcycle. And he says, all I know is that when I got into the side car on the trip to Whipsnade Zoo, I did not believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. and when I got out of the sidecar at the Whipsnade Zoo, I did.

That's right. When God creeps up on you, he just keeps on that. It's not always the Damascus experience, but it was very real for Lewis. It does have a slightly comic edge, because in Britain there are still a few of these around, and people do laugh at them. But that was, who cares? That was what happened, and that's when it, if you like, God crept up by stealth and said, hello, and he got there to this open zoo and said, wow.

Hello. But what I like about it is, again, you talk about the honesty. A lot of us feel that there's often with evangelicals or there's some kind of a, what do you call it? It's a procrustian bed. You've got to fit the narrative into this. It has to happen this way. And with Lewis, with my own life, with the dream, but with Lewis, it doesn't happen that way at all. It's not that, hey, I walked down the sawdust trail and I laid my crack pipe on the altar and I gave my life to Jesus.

He's in, at one moment he's on a bus, the next moment he is in a sidecar, and God comes to him gradually in this completely different way. It really is strange, beautiful, amazing, and I think very, very instructive that he describes this process. And he says it's like the person who is waking up. Suddenly you realize you're awake. You've been sleeping and suddenly you realize you're awake. I mean, it's so beautiful. We'll be right back talking to Norman Stone. Living in the hopeless, hungry side of town. Hey, folks, Eric Metaxis here.

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The new film is the most reluctant convert all around the country, all around the world, but you can find it at c.s. Louismovie.com. C.S. Lewismovie.com. You have to be excited about the success of this film, Norman. I mean, it's one thing to have our, success. You've never not had that. I've watched your stuff. But to have people respond has to be very gratifying. It's you Americans. When I worked for the BBC, I was known as the

half American kid because I loved it over here. I like Americans. And I love filming in America and so on. And that stays. But even me with my experience of your visionary possibilities, this has blown me away. We came over for Wednesday, What is it now? Monday, Tuesday, Tuesday? Yeah. Wednesday again? I'll start that again. I don't know. We came over here.

It's a day. We came over here and there was this, meant to be this little launch with summer, and then I discovered it's going to be elsewhere. But it just got bigger and bigger and bigger, which tells me two things. It tells me that people are hungry for this story, which is great. And it tells me that I can swing open the library doors to the rest of Lewis. Somebody asked me that when I was doing the first Shadalands, and I said, what do you want to achieve?

And it was a good question. And I said, really what I'd like to achieve is swing open the library doors. Because if you haven't read Lewis and you're not aware of him, it's all there. It's all there. He's sold a billion, no, quarter of a billion, mustn't get too exaggerated. He's sold a quarter of a billion books. I don't know anyone else has done that. He's died in 63.

He's selling more books every year than the previous year. Don't you hate people like that? As a writer, I resent you, Jack. No, but listen, his stuff, listen, speaking as a writer myself, there's no one to compare to him except maybe Shakespeare. I mean, he has, he's created his own literature. He hasn't just written, you know, some people write a lot of novels, and they can be geniuses. But he's written in so many different genres, and in so many of them, he has masterpieces. I mean, the Narnia Chronicles, I just think there is nothing like them.

and I've only read them as an adult, but they are just absolute. My favorite, I think, is the silver chair. Used to be the Dawn Treader, but there's stuff in there that I think it doesn't get better than this. It's very clever and very heartfelt, too. And yeah, he's got a very broad sweep.

But I also think he's got a common man's voice. By that, I mean, ordinary people who maybe not even readers, get what he says. So during the blitz, do you remember the blitz, Eric? during the... I was not yet a zygote, but yes. But basically in the Blitz,

he had to go from Oxford into the bombs to broadcast at the BBC. So he's going into the Blitz to tell... He's been asked to tell the nation about Christian faith. And of course, people are dying.

Mrs. McAfety on the corner. He's just been blown up by another bomb. People have lost their sons, their husbands. And he's going and talking to them now. A little known fact, perhaps, is that in the pubs of London at that time, when people were in such a state, they used to shout, quiet everybody, shut up, Mr. Lewis is on the radio, and they'd turn the radio on, and they'd all sit there, sipping their pines with that.

We have to explain, this is amazing. What was this? Forty-two? Yeah, about that. Okay. The BBC asks Lewis, already famous, to give a series of four talks on Christianity, to bolster the faith of the, the English, because they're going through such a hard time. Yeah. And he gives these four famous talks, and they become the book mere Christianity, those four that becomes the book mere Christianity. So a lot of people are familiar with that.

So that's him as an apologist, writing directly on the nose about why Christian faith makes sense. And people lapped it up, and it's still selling like crazy today. But I would draw a straight line to today. I was thinking the other day when in England, when in Britain, have we had a situation similar to that blitz where people were dying, left, right and center. Probably now we've had a really hard time with COVID.

There's a lot of deaths, a lot of people losing people. And I think, and the way the world is right now is a real mess, I think people are hungry again. I look at this film as Lewis walking back into the blitz and talking not on the BBC radio, but in this film and his books. And I think that's a rare moment. That's why it must be something to do with why it's getting so popular this film. They're ready for it.

Well, I think the other thing is that he's not a quote-unquote Christian writer. He's a writer who writes about Christian things. You know what he said? He said, we don't need any more Christian writers. We need Christians who write books. So instead of doing the Christian Anger, you write books and be a Christian. Well, that's, I mean, that's what I've always tried to do, myself because I think there's so many people, they're not sure where they are, they don't know if they

particularly need convincing, they're sort of, you can come at them obliquely and help them. And that's a lot of what Lewis does. I mean, he's more on the nose, of course, in mere Christianity in the BBC talks. But he wrote so many things. I love his space trilogy. Peralandra, I think, is one of the greatest books ever written in the 20th century. Anybody who takes Paradise Lost, who reads Paradise Lost, you should read Paralandra. It's like a companion book. And then he wrote something called Introduction to Paradise Lost, which is also brilliant.

But he just wrote so many different things. And it's important that people understand that if you discover Lewis, you're discovering an absolute literature, a treasury of works. And, you know, I hope it never ends. It's amazing. We've just got a few seconds left.

Before we come back with Norman Stone, Let me remind you, folks. You can go to my store.com and my pillow.com. Use the code Eric. You can also go to nutrometics.com and use the code Eric. And we hope you will sign up for our newsletter at Ericmetaxis. If you want to find this film, folks, rush to c.s. S. Louismovie.com.

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That's MyPillow.com promo code Eric or 1,800-9783057. Welcome back. We're talking to the film director. Dr. Norman Stone from Scotland? At the moment. That's true. How many kids do you have? I have five, and I've just become a double grandfather. Okay, I was worried about this.

I said, I think it's possible that my friend Norman is no longer merely a father. And this is true? Yeah, in the last six months. It's like buses. I've got five kids. You wait forever, and then two come at once. You know what I mean? Unbelievable.

And now I did see the names of a couple of stones in the credit. besides your name Norman Stone. Siggie and Magnus. Siggi and Magnus. And Magnus, who, yeah, is doing very well at the gaming industry. They all fiddle with their thumbs and they go to outer space or whatever. He's doing real well with that, but he also edits well. So he edited my teaser.

But he's now just spending a bunch of time in America. He loves it. Well, we have to say that you have to tell my audience, some of whom will get it, who your wife is and who her father was? Her father was called Magnus Magnuson. I loved that name. And he became very famous in Britain. He invented a thing called Mastermind,

which was meant to go on for six shows. 25 years later. He invented Mastermind. He was the first man on it, and there's a very funny story of how the producer decided to do this. But he was well known for that, and it's a difficult one to get rights

from a standing start. There'd been nothing like, like it before. So this is your father-in-law. And of course, your son Magnus named after his grandfather. Yeah, well, there's a lot of Magnus is around. And he was Icelandic. My wife had the same DNA gene. She's now very well known. She's an anchor woman for the BBC in Scotland, but she does loads of other stuff, journalist, and currently writing her third novel. What? Well, I want people to know who we're dealing with here, folks, not just C.S. Lewis. This is Norman Stone. Now, Norman, if people want to find your other films.

Is there a website they can go to? I don't know. Actually, I don't know. You sound like me. It's pathetic. The two people that would be interested in my other films, I'd send them to them personally. But I was at having dinner with something called

Britbox, a person from Britbox. Last night. Your stuff has to go on Britbox. Apparently it is. You were having dinner in New York City with Sony from Britbox? I need to talk to this person. I want to talk to this person.

We're going to talk about it. I do want to talk about it. Albin and I watch Brit Box, and of course it's great. And you have so much good stuff. Tales from the Madhouse. Oh, yes, I remember that's how we met. That's maybe the first thing that I saw by you in the, I think it was 2000 maybe or 99. I was just blown away by what you did in Tales for the Madhouse, which was on the BBC.

And that's when I thought, who's this guy? And then we met. Yeah, in a stranger, Eric, they've got a connection with this, the latest film on Lewis, because they were speaking to camera. Well, no, that's why I brought it up. I said it was the same kind of thing that you make it work. And, I mean, some of them are just outrageous.

The one, what's the most haunting one? Oh, with the older gent who plays Father Christmas in... Oh, James Cosmo. He played the Centurion. I mean, that's... For people who haven't come across this, the idea was the BBC used to have 15-minute programs through Easter Week.

and there were usually sad affairs made by people that had no faith but would wear sandals and a teacroth and sit outside um sit outside um sit outside uh Jerusalem and ponder thoughts and quote sent Ignatius or something and I managed to get together some money and I said why don't you do drama that we can't afford it and they let me do it because I brought half the money to the table so I was allowed to invite very good actors to that For example.

Okay, for example, Jonathan Price. For example, Tony Robinson big over here. He is big over there. One of the girls from Britain who was in Friends. You have Dame Eileen Atkins. Claire Bloom. Dame Eileen Atkins was in one of those? She was one of the greatest ones.

That's before I knew who she was. Yeah, she's good. And they were eager, for two reasons, I think. They were eager to play this for ridiculous. ridiculously those sums. They could hardly afford the bus back. But they were on camera all the time. They were able to show how good they were. I wasn't going to go anywhere. It was their performance. It's an actor's dream. That's right. And it was. And they did it. And they also did it because they trusted me. I'd work with them all before. So except Tony Robinson. From the Madhouse. I wonder if that's on Britbox. I wonder if, but I mean, no kidding. These are great. I don't, I try not to blow smoke folks. This is great stuff. The Narnia Code.

featuring the young Eric Metaxus talking to camera. What did I say? Tolkien's a jerk. I joked, as I often do, and we got letters of bitter people. How dare you? But anyway, Michael Ward's book, Planet Narnia. Of course, it's Planet Narnia.

But you made it into a film called The Narnia Code. And then beyond Narnia, I don't know if that's available someplace. I suspect after my conversation last night, it is. I don't know how they do it. I'm in Britain. I don't get Brit, but. They must have some sort of calling up. You must tap in who you're interested in.

They are sitting on a mountain of BBC top work. So I was quite honored to find that. They could find my stuff on that. No, there's so much great stuff on Britbox. Why watch Netflix for the love of Christmas when you can get Britbox? It's fantastic. But beyond Narnia, starring our friend, the late Anton Rogers, I was very moved by that when you made it.

Can't believe it's already 2006 when this came out. But it was, people have heard me talk about, one of my favorite films of all time is the Christmas film starring Albert Finney, the Scrooge starring Albert Finney. And in that, Anton Rogers plays Tom, the Hot Suit Man. And he's about, I don't know, 32 or something in that. So when I saw your, I watched the DVD of Your Beyond Ania, And I thought, I know this guy, I know this guy, I know this guy.

And it was 30 years later, it was Tom the Hot Soupman, playing C.S. Lewis. And I almost wept. It was so moving. It's like an old friend come to life. And then we got to meet him, spent time with him here in New York City. But that's in the film, Beyond Narnia. And speaking of Beyond, what are you going to work on next? You always have a thousand projects. Well, I am not going to give up on Lewis.

I cannot say too much. much, but I'm going from this interview to a meeting where that will be discussed. How about that? But also, there's a film I've wanted to make since 1987 about child trafficking in Victorian English. Norman, that's how I got to know you. I read the treatment for that, and I'll never forget it. I was working for Veggie Tales at the time, and who was it at Veggie Tales that introduced me to you now? Somebody to Moran.

We're bad with names today. But gave me, I watched Tales from the Mad House, and then I read this script for, what's the name of it? Raising Hell. Raising Hell. And I was stunned. And then I got to meet you and we became friends. Praise God.

We'll be right back talking to Norman Stone. I'm still talking to Norman Stone. Folks, well, listen, Norman, really, it's always, it's just my sort of instinctive joy to want to introduce people to my friends and to get them excited about things I'm excited about. Your work, I mean, you just mentioned, and it says a little bit about the film business, doesn't it?

That it was in the year 2000 that I read your treatment of this film called Raising Hell, and I was so transfixed by it, and now it's 20 years later, hasn't been made. Which tells you everything, how hard it is to get things made, even when they're great. And I know that it's great, but, you know, you're dealing with market forces and strange people, puddle glums, sitting behind desks who don't believe in anything.

But you're talking about that. Well, good stuff will out in the end. I'm sort of misquoting Chaucer. But it will. No, no, you're misquoting Shakespeare. Who quoted Chaucer? No. I'm just making that.

Oh, stop it. But basically, I think that project, Raising Hell, which I'm wanting to make soon, I mean, there's some ideas, have a lot of ideas. They get lost. They don't follow it home. This one followed me home. It nibbled my ankles. It was the sound of babies crying in the night.

You know that feeling? And I couldn't get it out my head. So you think, okay, I think the Lord's got his hand on this one, and I'll just keep waiting and moving and so on. If I can make this as a full feature film, I would be not saying that's me finished, but it's one of the highest points I'd want to reach. It's very relevant today.

Well, that's the other thing. It's extremely relevant today. Say so the audience understands what is the story. Well, it's the greatest story never told, Eric. It really is. In 1887, there were two Christians, a newspaper editor and the son of the man who founded the Salvation Army. His name is Bramwell Booth. Bramwell Booth, who figures in my Bonhoeffer story. It all comes together. It's kind of creepy, isn't it? Like, I only know Bramwell because of, because Bonhofer listened to him when he was about 15 years old.

He was in Berlin. Yeah. But this is some decades before, Bramwell Booth. And I knew his daughter, believe it or not. Yeah, Malcolm Mugger did a lot with his daughter. You're kidding. No, and I went and meet her. And I didn't know how I was doing this film.

It's got to be his granddaughter. No, it's his daughter. You had three daughters that never got married. And they had a house there. And I went to, I went to film. This is in 1970s. So that point. point she was old then but she'd been on one of the greatest chat shows in britain and took the country

by storm feelings aren't faced do you know that and people listened you know it's crazy listen this is so great okay so anyway we've only got a minute but tell tell the plot of this because this is exciting well in victorian england they worship death and they wouldn't talk about sex today you may have noticed that's a complete now we worship sex and won't talk about death right but that meant that an awful of wickedness went on underneath the society that was outwardly a very precise and polite society. Terrible things. Child prostitution, buying people. And worse, I won't go on about them, but it's all there. Now, when William Stead, this journalist discovered that this was for real, and Bramwell Booth already knew it was for real, they took on the government. They brought the government down and protected children for almost exactly a hundred hundred,

years. And that was when I came across the story, 1987. It's not left me since. Well, I wish I had a, you know, a film studio or a media production company and we could snap this up because this is going to be great. Whoever gets it. I mean, I've never read anything so searing. It was absolutely searing. And it's got better since you read the last Well, I don't doubt it. All right, we're out of time. Norman, my friend, if people, is there any website for you, for you, 1A, something like this? 1A productions.co.com.

1A.com.com. dot UK, 1A productions.co.com. And you'll find our website under 1A productions. Okay, Norman.