The Eric Metaxas Show - Pamela Pyle

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

As a practicing doctor specializing in end-of-life care, Pamela Pyle has seen many people pass on, but examples of “good deaths” have captivated her. The secret to a good death, she has found, lies in a combination of practical preparation and spiritual anticipation.

Noble gold investments is the official gold sponsor of the Eric Mataxis show, a company that specializes in gold IRAs and physical delivery of precious metals. Learn how you can protect your wealth with noble gold investments. That's noble gold investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. We'll get you from point A to point B. But if you're looking for point C, well, buddy, you're on your own. But if you'll wait right here, in just about the two minutes, the bus to point C will be coming right by. And now here's your Ralph Cramden of the Airways, Eric Mott, Texas. Folks, welcome to Hour 2 talking to Pamela Pyle in a few minutes. But right now I continue my conversation with John Zimirak, Z-M-I-R-A-K. John Z-M-R-A-K.

John Z-M-R-A-K, we were talking about, you know, we're both very excited about next year is the 250th anniversary of the birth, the United States of America. I've coined the term supercentennial, because nobody can say semi-quincente. We're celebrating the semi-quincentennial. So the term is super centennial. I'm putting it out there. I'm trying to get word to the president so that he will use the term super centennial because I just think we need a term.

It's the super centennial. And it's kind of fitting because it sounds like it's the best centennial ever, the super centennial, the 250th. And by the way, we are at this moment in an existential car. like the revolution, like the Civil War, and we have a leader in Donald Trump, like George Washington, or Abraham Lincoln, a father of the country, somebody who understands the moment in history and who has been prepared, let's be blunt by God to be who he is to do. You know, you can't give Donald Trump too much credit when you realize God invented Donald Trump. God gave him the gifts that he has. And he's

meant to be a vessel for God's purposes, not for Trump's purposes or my purposes, for God's purposes. history. But so it's exciting. And I said that today, 271 years ago in history, so not 250 years ago, May 28th, 1754. It was the beginning, really, of the French and Indian War, which was between Great Britain and then the French and many Native Americans. It was kicked off by George Washington, who was an unknown 22-year-old at the time. Right. And in fact, it was a world war. It's called the Seven Years War.

It brought in Prussia, Austria, Hungary. It was fought in India. The war that Washington sparked was fought as far away as India, between France and England. Here's what happened. The state of Virginia, the colony of Virginia, was trying to expand west into the Ohio River Valley. The French claimed this land. They claimed it, but really it was inhabited by Indians. But they claimed they were under the protection of the French crown.

The French sent a diplomatic party to go warn the English settlers out, to tell them to get out, this is French land. Washington stumbles into this diplomatic, doesn't know it's a diplomatic party, because they're armed, they're soldiers. fighting starts the Indian allies that Washington had went kind of wild and scout scouted a bunch of the French including a diplomat who was there with like a diplomatic note

and the French said this man is a murderer George Washington murdered our diplomat when in fact it was a military encounter was a result of confusion mixed messages it broke out into fighting and the American Indians were the ones who scalped the French. This made Washington a hero in Virginia.

When he came back, the people of Virginia loved him for having stood up to the French. A war breaks out between Great Britain and France that erupts, is fought all around the world. It lasts for seven years. It completely breaks the back of French colonial power. French lose Canada. They give up all their claims in that part of North America. and it's suddenly all in Britain's hands.

George Washington was seen as the hero who started it, who stood out. He's got to understate this again. He was a kid, folks. He was 22 years old. This is two decades, two decades before the American Revolution. So the idea that the guy that we now revere as George Washington, somehow at age 22, was involved in sparking this world war, it's just, it's one of these bizarre moments in history.

It's kind of bizarre. But here's the important part. By kicking out the French, suddenly we didn't need the British army to protect us from anyone anymore. And the cost of the seven years war was so crushing, the British decided to recoup it by imposing taxes on the colonists without representation. So the whole crisis that led to the American Revolution was the result. of this war. The fact that we didn't want British troops in our cities anymore was because there were no more French to protect us from. So ironically, the war George Washington accidentally started made inevitable the movement for American independence. Exactly. Thank you're saying it exactly

as you do as precisely as you have, because that's exactly the story. And it is, it's just an amazing moment in history to think that it happened 271 years ago today, May 28th, the battle of Jumontville Glen, kind of a horrible thing, really. It was like a massacre. And Washington was blamed for it. It's just, it's absolutely crazy.

But it happened and it led to what we think of as the American Revolution, what we call the American Revolution. All right, John, we just got moments. left together. I want to go just briefly to touch on yesterday the CDC and RFK Jr. announced that the CDC is going to drop its recommendation of the COVID-19 vaccine for healthy children and pregnant women. And I thought a lot of people, Naomi Wolf posted on X, this is so ridiculous. Like, why is anybody being recommended to get this stupid evil? COVID-19 vaccine at this point.

I mean, I guess here's my explanation, and you can tell me what you think. I think RFK Jr. and Marty McCarrie and company are being ultra cautious in how they sound, that they're just saying, let's just move a day at a time, let's be cautious. We know that this vaccine and other vaccines cause tremendous harms, but until we have the facts, Let's just go one step at a time. Meanwhile, people are taking the vaccine and getting turbo cancers. This is not a time to be cautious. The other side wasn't cautious.

When they locked down the entire planet, they were cautious. What's your explanation why people that I think of as heroes? Big pharma has a lot of money to put a lot of pressure on people. Reportedly, Senator Cassidy bartered his vote to confirm RFK Jr. In return for certain understandings that he wouldn't go too far, think it's time for K for RFK to say, yeah, you know what, I'm not keeping those promises. You're not getting reelected anyway, you lousy rhino. Stuff it. We need, they need to be much more aggressive. Pam Bondi needs to be much more aggressive. Why is Mark Millie not in a military

prison? We need much more boldness and aggressiveness from the Trump administration. The things they've done with executive orders have been great. That's all they can do because The Republicans in Congress are worse than useless. They're like a model UN at a special ed school. They are accomplishing absolutely nothing. They're not even trying. Trump needs to get out there and endorse MAGA opponents of these rhino Republicans. He needs to kick them out in the primaries.

He can't make deals with them. We need to purge them. I always said a rhino is worse than a Democrat the way. A Democrat is like a noisy neighbor who plays T's. tinny radio and throws beer cans over your fence. A rhino is a squatter who lives in your house, sleeps in your bed with your spouse, and eats out of the refrigerator in its underwear. A rhino is squatting in your home. We need to purge the rhinos. They are what is wrong with America. They are what got us into the Iraq war. They are what gave us gay marriage. They help

keep abortion legal for 50 years. The rhinos are the enemy within. And that has to be our target. The Democrats are just the gathering, gathering swine thundering to the sea. And that's being nice. That's being nice. But listen, folks, let me remind you, keep the faith. Cray, trust that God's hand is on this country. We would not have gotten here if God were not with us. The idea that Trump was reelected, the idea that we are uncovering some of the evil, much of the evil. But this is a war. This is going to take time.

And John is right. We need to be as aggressive as possible. If you understand what you're dealing with, these are not people that are going to play patty cake. If you give an opportunity to cut your throat, they'll cut your throat. But we need to pray. We need to do things God's way.

That doesn't mean being timid, on the contrary. All right, we're out of time with John. We'll be right back. John, thank you, my friend. Thank you. There's been a national focus on eating only the healthiest of foods, and that's great news for balance of nature. Their method of producing a vibrant nutritional supplement is second to none. While so many others use chemicals and additives, balance of nature is made solely from whole food ingredients.

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It's my privilege now to bring on a real medical doctor. Dr. Pamela Pyle, we met some weeks ago, and she was telling me about her book. It's called Anticipating Heaven. And I thought, I have to get her on the program to talk about the subject of the book. Dr. Pamela Pyle. Welcome. Oh, Eric, thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to be with you.

I have to say I'm a little starstruck. Oh, my goodness. Now, that's just silly because you've met me in person and you know in person. I'm not that nice. But I want to tell you, seriously, I was so thrilled meeting you and your husband and then hearing you talk about this. This is a big idea. And that's why you wrote the book about it. So what is the, first of all, tell my audience so I don't.

What is the book about? What is this idea of anticipating heaven? The book is anticipating heaven. heaven. What's the idea? So the big idea came from a patient who was actually the day before her death. She and I were having a conversation and it was just a beautiful experience of answering her questions about the physical things, what to expect, what her family would see. But then as I was thinking about how much I was going to miss her, just as her physician, I really began to weep. And this beautiful lady, she grabs both my hands and she says, it's okay, it will be a good death.

Now, I knew what she was meaning by that phrase, it will be a good death. It's that she knew her destination. But she fulfilled one of her last purposes by giving me that. that phrase because God would not let me let go of, well, what is a good death and what is a good dying? And how can I, as a bond servant of our Lord Jesus Christ, as well as 30 plus years of medicine at that point, how can I make a difference? And I wasn't a writer. I took one English class in college because they made me. But God said begin writing. And that was the beginning of anticipating heaven. Well, it's, again, it's a big idea. And this is what you and I were talking about

when we met, that we live in a culture that is so secular that it can't deal with the idea of death. Because if you do not know that you're going into the arms of your heavenly father, you're going to paradise, you're going home. home, that it's a joy. Your view of death is going to be so bizarre, so off. So what, I mean, it's just perverse. And as a physician, you've, you've had to deal with this. And as a believer, you, you, you see it in a different way. And what kind of a physician have you been for all these years or basically? I've worked hospital base since 1992, I hate to say, it's been that long. but it was one of the three physicians to start the first outpatient, excuse me,

inpatient practice outside of a university. And at that time, there was not even a term called hospitalists, but I'm an internal medicine doctor that in the mid-90s, the term hospitalist came into. I've never heard the term. Hospitalist? Hospitalist. So it's someone who works just in the hospital.

and admits patients from the ER or from outside offices or consult on cases like trauma and surgery. So around very sick people. Yeah. Well, right. And so you, obviously, you've been dealing with death professionally all these years. And when was it that you decided that you had to write about this? Was it this encounter with the woman on her, the last day of her life when she said that to you? Yes.

Well, it was about two months later. I really started initially just journaling, you know. And even though I had been around death and dying and illness and suffering my entire career, I had never put it in the context of my own life. And so that journaling part was, well, how do you? do I feel about my own death and what's important for me? And what I realized, the more I became a student of death, I realized how much it brought clarity to life.

And I started changing how I lived my life because it, well, I've always known that death. could be around the corner. I will just say for you and your listeners, we all have a death date on our calendar. We don't know, sorry for that, when that is, but it's there. I think I can squeeze it in on a Tuesday at 2 o'clock in the future, but I'll see.

Now, when you say that, I mean, you're not a fatalist. You don't mean, you know, because you have sometimes people say, hey, when your number's up, your numbers up, nothing you can do, you know, there's a time appointee. whatever. And it's like, no, you know, if you ride a motorcycle without a helmet and, you know, you smoke six packs a day. So we have, you know, God gives us the ability to be healthy or not.

Nonetheless, every one of us will die. And it is a reality that I think in previous generations, because so many people died young, it was around us more. We live in a culture that's really been able to push the idea away and to avoid thinking about it and mainly because of fear. And I think that what you're saying or part of what you want to say is that we ought not to fear it. We ought to know God is good. He loves us. And he's with us here and he wants to be with us in eternity. And that's the most incredible, wonderful thing we could imagine. And we need to get our heads around that. So what is some of the things that you say in the book? And again, folks, the title is anticipating heaven. But what is some of the things you cover, Pamela?

I wanted to enter the patient's journey when they first get a diagnosis. And regardless of faith, strong faith, no faith, when you first have that awareness of your own mortality, there's a sense of fear and a sense of chaos. And so to overcome fear and chaos is to have knowledge. Sir Francis Veracen said, knowledge is power. And so I wanted to equip that person that's just entering with, okay, these are the questions to ask. This is what to do to get a second opinion.

And you need second and third opinions. You know, we do, when we're thinking about our kids and trying to pick a wedding planner, we don't just interview one. Now we're talking about our health. So multiple opinions is important, knowing what to expect at the hospital and how to be heard. If anyone that is listening, whether you're a doctor, whether you're a teacher, whether you're a stay-at-home mom, it is difficult to navigate our health care system. So you have to have some idea of what you're entering before you enter it, or it can make everything worse because it feels very chaotic.

And there's a psychological experience. It's called a stripping process that occurs when we enter the health care field. I have to say, you know, my father passed away a little bit over a year ago. And, you know, we were in that world, this hospital world. And the lack of communication or the way things get done, it's just bizarre. It's so bizarre to me that they can be so cavalier or sloppy or unclear, really. You would think that somebody would clarify to you. This is what's happening.

This is how it happens. Trying to get to actually see the doctor or whatever. All of that stuff makes you feel like you're in, you know, a communist prison system or something like that. It's not, it's not what it ought to be. And obviously, you know about that. So what are some of the things that you say about how to navigate that? We just got a minute, but keep going.

Well, just for a quick. Yeah. Everything that you said is like the things that you didn't have. I tell you how to get it in the book. How to get time with the doctor. It's all about having a confident voice in a place that they don't want you to have confidence. And it's, okay, doctor, we will be here whenever it is that you are rounding, but we need to know when you're coming so that we can be here and to hear from you. it is important for us.

And if there is some reason that you need to talk to us later in the day, these are all our numbers, but we want to be engaged in our loved ones health. And there's certain little nuances of, you know, finding the right nurse that will be your advocate. Okay. I want to, we're going to go to a break here. But folks, I'm talking to Dr. Pamela Pyle, P-Y-L-E. the book is anticipating heaven. Welcome back.

I'm talking to Dr. Pamela Pyle. It's P-Y-L-E. The book is anticipating heaven. So, Pamela, you're talking to us about this a number of things. You're giving us in the book the practicalities of how do we navigate the health care system, which is very important because as you're saying and as I've experienced, it's confusing, it's strange. And then you talk really about our. perspective on death and what that ought to be like. So you talk about all of this in the book,

so keep going. So I walk everyone through that first diagnosis, but there's a issue that occurs in all of our lives. I call it a paradigm shift of health. And we go through these. Sometimes they're very subtle. We don't realize there's a significant change. Sometimes it's, it may be the first time you see a doctor, you're told to lose weight, change your diet, your blood pressure is high. And you go home and you do all those things thinking, I am now back in control of my life. Then you go to the doctor and your blood pressure is still high. And you have to start on medicine.

For some, that first entry is very emotionally difficult. And so I walk through how to have power in that, how to find a good doctor before you even need a good doctor so that you will have someone that you trust. And trust is the most important factor in a clinician choice. And sometimes that's trust because you've lived and experienced yourself with that doctor. or sometimes you have to use borrowed trust, someone that you trust, trust that doctor. Well, there's so many, I mean, obviously, maybe not so obviously, but it's obvious to me that many Americans have lost faith in the medical establishment. And I think that there's many good reasons for that. There are a lot of doctors that are, they've bought into a paradigm.

which is not great. And it's just like, here, take Lipitor, here, take this, take that, whatever. They're not looking at things holistically. They're not open to other ideas. And it's like they're sort of cynical. It's like, well, look, this is, this is what we can do. So the question is, how do you find a doctor that actually cares about you as a person and doesn't just see you as, you know, somebody on a list that they have to get through? I think the best type of doctor to go to is either they're called integrative medicine or functional medicine. And basically, like you said, we have to be aware of preventive health care.

We want to know what are the right supplements. And you've got to have a full circle approach, 360. of what impacts health. And there's actually so many things in science now that helps us live better and live longer. And so functional medicine, integrative medicine, sometimes a general internal medicine doctor or family practice, but you have to really interview them to see if it's a good fit for you. Well, yeah. I mean, I've been to many, many doctors over the years,

and it's really incredible how many of them don't really care. So when you find one who seems to care, it's a big deal. What else? We call them zebras. What do you mean? So in medicine, there's that when someone presents with an illness, they might have 10 different. normal causes for that illness.

But sometimes, and we call those horses, but sometimes there's actually a zebra diagnosis. So it's a rare, unique finding in a medical diagnosis, but we also call these doctors that what we really want to be our doctor, I call them zebras too, because they are hard to find. Yeah. Not a possible. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, so in the book you talk about facing death in a biblical way. And again, the book, folks, is anticipating heaven. So what do you mean by that? So I come from a biblical worldview, which is looking at God's words, a holy Bible, is inherent. And one of my favorite evangelist still, and I listen to a lot of his. previous teaching is Billy Graham. And in the 12th chapter of the book, it's called the Most Important Preparation, Billy Graham used to ask at these huge festivals, are you prepared to die? He wasn't afraid to make you emotionally get in that place.

And then he would share the gospel. And then he would say, if you're not sure about a specific place and time of when you went to the Lord and prayed for him to save you and repented and have a true salvation experience, let today be that day and time. And so a lot of people would come through to go forward for prayer on that second question. And I have a habit if there's a salvation prayer, I pray it still, even though I can describe my day and time very distinctly in March of 96. But I wanted to include that in the chapter because we have a lot of people that may be sitting in church pews and would call themselves Christians, but haven't had that person. They haven't settled that issue. We'll be right back to continue this and other thoughts. Don't go away. Folks, I'm talking to Dr. Pamela Pyle. The book is anticipating heaven. And Pamela, you were just talking about, and this is so basic, but there's so many people that they have not officially said, Jesus, come into my life. Jesus, I give my life to you. And that's important for us to do, because if only,

because it can give us a profound peace that we belong to him and we're going to be with him when we die. In other words, when you die, you don't die. You go into a life that makes this life look bleak. It's really, it's so beautiful. And God wants that for every one of us. So I'm glad you talk about that in the book. Do you want to say more about that? because I know there are other things.

Yeah, I just, when you talked about we're not really dying, I call for the believer we exit the land of the dying, which is our world, and we enter the land of the living. And death is merely the door that we walk through to see our Savior and enter his loving arms. And so I would like to touch just on this. idea of how my husband came to faith. And I want to give this as an encouragement for those who might have family members that haven't accepted the Lord. My husband had an accident and he lost a lot of blood. When we were married, neither one of us were Christians. He'd grown up in the church

as a young boy and I had no exposure. And this was two years after we were married. And we were riding in the ambulance and he had lost so much blood. He was unconscious. And as a physician, I really was unsure if he would survive. And we got him to the ER and he went right into surgery. And from his perspective, during this time of unconsciousness, he saw death without Christ. And it was an impression of losing his existence, his soul leaving.

And like the deepest, darkest, depression, emotional turmoil, and cold. And so he, in that moment, realized, I am dying and I don't know Jesus. And so the only thing he could remember from scripture from his youth, was every knee will bow, every tongue confess. Every knee will bow, every tongue confess. Lord, Lord, please give me one more chance, and I will serve you. Please give me one more breath. And the reality is, my husband was physically saved.

And really, when he woke up and was describing this, he was a transformed man. And so he was saved right before death. And I believe there may be more people as we pray and worship someone home that they may hear from the Lord, even in those last moments, and have an opportunity like the thief on the cross to say, yes, you're king, your Lord. and he says welcome into paradise today. What an experience because we often hear of these near-death experiences and it's always like, oh, I saw God and there was light and whatever. We rarely hear the horror stories, the nightmare, the nightmare of seeing the blackness of eternity without God.

It is a nightmare, but what a gift that God would show that to something. people like your husband whom I had the privilege of meeting with you. Wow. I mean, that is so powerful because I think people, people do need to think about this. People, folks, you've got to think about it until our last breath to say Jesus is our Lord. And what we know at the end of life is the sense of hearing exists until our last breath. There's always electrical activity in that area of the brain. And so I say, continue to pray for your loved one, continue to worship with your loved one, and ask God that he will reach them even when they are in a coma and actively dying.

It does matter what decisions we make today because we don't know what tomorrow will hold. And so if you're not sure. the only prayer that is 100% accurate in resulting in a miracle is the prayer of salvation. That's powerful. We've only got a minute or so left. There's so much that you cover in the book. I'm looking at the list of things here. You say that with living with the end in mind leads to a more meaningful life.

Say something about that. That seems very important. And so, you know, again, that concept of awareness that tomorrow is not promised. And so I begin my morning as an example with the practice of anticipation. And so every morning when I spend my time with the Lord, I ask, Lord, what can I anticipate for today? For you, to serve you, to see those who may near need the gospel. and keep that sense of anticipation throughout the day. It changes your day.

It's like, I'm not going to work to give medicines and do the things. You know, I'm on mission. I am on mission and I'm expected that God will show up and he does. And it's a practice. but I strongly encourage living that with the understanding that that person you're sharing the gospel with, it may be because tomorrow won't come for them. And so I say take the risk, be bold.

You know, you're not saving them. Jesus saves them. And it took me a while to get that part down because I had the Romans road for everyone. And then I started, God had this strip me for that and go, oh, you know, it's not you, honey. It's the Holy Spirit. Listen. I'm so sorry we're out of time.

Dr. Pamela Pyle, thank you. Thanks for writing this book. This is important. Folks, it's called anticipating heaven. It's a bestseller. Pam, thank you. You're welcome. So much.

blessed. Folks, welcome back. It's my joy to continue my conversation with Robert Netsley, the CEO and founder of Inspire Advisors. And Robert, I'm a little bit like a broken record. Every time I have you on, I'm just excited that it's possible to do something. You know, most people have money invested. They're not quite aware of it. The very idea that we can kind of wake up to the reality that we do have choices,

that we can have God's money invested in things, not just that we approve of, but that are actually making it possible for you and other advocates to say on behalf of these shareholders, going to a big company and say, we don't like this, can you change this? And many of them are going along with that. That is absolutely amazing to me.

What you just shared about Walmart and Kroger, this is great news. It makes me want to run to Walmart and spend money because I want to bless them, you know, in this case, they're taking a big step. Absolutely. And, you know, and praise God. And there really is a movement. And when you think about Walmart, they employ millions and millions of people around the country or around the world.

How many people shop there. We really are making a difference. And it's, you know, getting recognized beyond a scale that I could imagine. So our firm, we're managing over $3 billion at this point. We've been ranked in the fastest growing firms in the nation. But just last week, the USA Today came out with their rankings and ranked inspired advisors, the third best financial advisory firm in the country, across all categories, all states.

And, you know, much to the chagrin of the, you know, extreme leftists who say that our viewpoints are backwards and on the wrong side of history. and we can't possibly deliver good returns or good results if we're managing things according to this antiquated, anachronistic Bible that we tote around, you know, and ostentfully thump people over the head with. It's just ridiculous to them. But here we are, the top three in the entire country across all firms, all sizes, every state, out front leading with biblical values and advocating for these things that we believe in. And that's a win for everybody who invest with us, every client.

and every client who sent us a referral, everybody who has talked to their aunt Sally about where her money is and told her she needs to take a look at that too. People like you, Eric, who are so passionate advocates for this movement, it's getting attention. And, you know, in our industry, the Wolfman manufacturing industry is not exactly a conservative bastion. Wall Street's not exactly known for that.

You know, conservative values, particularly in the social values. And they just, a lot of people, this sort of stand aghast and they're confused. How could this, how could this be at all successful? But you and I know that there are still a lot of people in this country, probably the majority of people I'd imagine, who do believe that these things are important and they want their money to be supporting the values they hold dear. They don't want to give the vote of their dollar to affirm like BlackRock, who is using it to advocate for things completely in opposition to

everything you hold dear. So it just makes sense. And so as the word gets out and people are waking up, I'm just so thrilled to see the results we're having like, like we've been talking about with Walmart and Krober, just keeping the abortion pill out of their pharmacies. It's huge. Look, these are monster wins. Monster wins. I can't even believe it when you're telling me this. I'm thinking, wow, is this possible to influence a gigantic, a BMA like Walmart to do the right thing not to carry this evil abortion pill, it's unbelievable, folks. And this is the free market. You know what?

If you have an abortion or you want to go to whatever, you can do that. But we're in a free country, and Walmart can choose to do the right thing. And so we have to support those who are doing what we believe in. And so this is something, it's why I talk about this action point. Folks, I don't know why you wouldn't do this. go to inspireadvisors.com slash Eric. Please be a part of what God is doing. Robert Netsley, God bless you for what you do.

Thanks for coming on.