The Eric Metaxas Show - Pastor Jack Hibbs | Living Boldly in a Godless Age

Episode Date: September 8, 2025

Pastor Jack Hibbs joins Eric to discuss his new book, Called to Take a Bold Stand, a timely guide for living with unshakable faith in an increasingly hostile world. Jack shares practical insights on representing Christ courageously, influencing a secular culture, and overcoming fear and intimidation. Discover how God is preparing believers to stand firm and shine brightly in the midst of chaos and confusion.

Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. It's a nutritious smoothie of creamy, fresh yogurt, vanilla protein powder, and a mushy banana. For your mind, drink it all down. It's nummy. I wub, vanilla. I wub, I wop, I wap, vanilla. Here comes Eric Mataxas. Hey there, folks.

Welcome to the program. It is my joy to have as my guest right now, my friend, have. Jack Hibbs. Jack, welcome back. You just make me happy. Thanks for coming on the program. Eric, we love you. And brother, you know, your audience doesn't know this, but a few weeks ago, we had a chance to sit down here on the West Coast.

And it was beautiful enough. But it was a cream on the top cherry with Eric. You are the best. Love you guys. And thanks. Well, I mean, I was, I may even have mentioned it on the program. I certainly mentioned it to Suzanne. What a blessing it was that evening we had together.

And I've said this a few times. Anybody who wants to denigrate California, ladies and gentlemen, I just want to tell you, California is one of the most beautiful places in the world. And if somebody put a gun to my head and said, you have to leave New York, where are you going to move? California would be at the top of the list or near the top of the list. It's an amazing place.

There are amazing churches there. We know the downside. And we can talk about the downside. We talk about it too much sometimes. But there are so many wonderful people of faith, so many heroic pastors in California. I mean, I got to meet all of you guys, Rob McCoy, you, Jack Hibbs, Pastor Che on. I met so many Steve McClure, so many pastors that stood heroic. heroically against the authoritarianism of Governor Newsom. And so sometimes, you know, when when bad

things happen, faith and courage come out of it. So, Jack, you really have been such a hero. Now, you have a new book out called to take a bold stand. Is that the whole title? Yeah, called to take a bold stand. That's the title. Subtitle is resilient and effective faith for a godless age. And yeah, you may have. mention COVID, a lot of the stuff I'm writing about in this book is stuff lived out during those years of COVID. It's almost unbelievable, and I shudder. I knew when it was happening, I said, we've never lived through anything like this. It was chilling to me. It was a chilling moment. And if it hadn't been for my faith, I don't know, you know, but it was a chilling time. But it was clarifying. as all crises can be. It was clarifying to see how many in the church did not stand boldly, how many didn't get it.

And so people like you and me, we were speaking out really loudly on this issue. Speaking to the church, of course, I wrote a book called Letter to the American Church, which deals with this, where you're basically saying, hey, church, in case he didn't know, this is on you. it's now is your time to stand. This is really important. But that's how I got to become friends with you and I mentioned Rob McCoy and so many others

because there were a number of us that we saw it. We stood together and now we're coming out on the other side, but we're not through it. But it has wakened up a lot of people who were not awake. Well, Eric, I would trust your audience knows this of you, but if they're new to your program, I can speak and say that, Eric, you were a stalwart. You didn't budge.

You and I sat in some of the Trump meetings there in D.C. And you were not only vocal. It was rational and put together smart. And it was the Eric Metaxus classic. And you're giving reasons and arguments. Eric, you were more bold than 95% of a. America's pastors. And so I got to tell you, thank you, a thousand times over. And of course, the fruit of that is the book that you just mentioned. If you're listening or watching right now,

and if you do not own that book that Eric wrote a letter to the American church, you've got to get it. And it was something that, you know, Eric, we sold your book here to our congregation by the thousands. It's such a great book. It's very prescient, by the way, because, you know, it's reminiscent of the book of Revelation, the seven letters of the seven churches, of course, you can feel that in the title. But man, the Lord led you through the authorship of that book. And what a timely and timeless piece, because it deals with those things, Eric, that you and I find our strength in. And that is the ever resilient, forever faithful word of God. And when times hit us in the face, you know, Mike Tyson said, when interviewed, what are you going to do when you go up against

your next opponent, Mike Tyson said, well, everybody's got a plan until they get hit in the face. And what he meant by that was, yeah, what he meant by that was, you default to what you know, and the instinct of what you know. And you argued for that, we argued for that. And it's a time when the church is challenged, that's when she rises up. That's her moment. People view that as a time. Oh, no, no, no, we need to hide or retreat.

No, no, no, no. The Lord allows the challenge to come to. He may not cause it, but he'll allow it. And we are the ones who can take the charge in the Word of God and shine the light in the darkness, or we can bury that light under the basket, and that doesn't turn out good. What are some of the things you write about in the book? Let's get specific, because I want to talk to you. We've got time, but the book called to take a bold stand. Folks, that's you. We are called. Each of us called to take a bold stand. Rejoicing it. Rejoicing in it. God made you to do this. This is not like extra credit or I don't want to do it. It's harder not to do this, folks. In the end, it'll be harder not to do this, called to take a bold stand. So what do we talk about in the book? Yeah, first of all, the book opens up with some of the blatant realities that we are living in an age where the wheat is being separated from the chaff and the real

from the falls. And those that play with religion on Sunday versus those who have a relationship with Jesus every day and every hour of the week. That said, the title, the first title, Eric, to chapter one, I have to confess, I don't like the title, even though I put the title

in there, it's weird to me until I explain. And the first title is this. You have what it takes. Now, I don't like those kind of books like rah-rah, you know, here we go. You can do it. but speaking to believers, we actually possess what it takes to get through times of challenge because it's not us.

The book is going to instruct you on how to have courage in the Lord. Because in and of ourselves, Eric, you know this. A lot of people check out of the game or they don't show up to the battle because they think that they've got to take on Satan themselves or deal with this particular issue. in California. Yes, no doubt about it. Eric, yesterday, which is why my face is so red, what did we do yesterday? Lisa and I sat at the beach, waves were huge, ocean blue, sky blue, gorgeous day, California, 77 degrees. And the amazing thing what you said a moment ago in your intro is everything that's wrong about California can be voted out of office. Everything wrong

about California, you can be changing a vote. That said, in California now, you're either a Christian or you're not. There's no gray zone anymore. And so the opening chapters of this book is to call you to be courageous in Christ because if you want to see miracles, you wrote a book on miracles, if you want to see God move, if you want to see God use his church like he did in the first century, then show up to the battle. Just show up. He, will give you the victory, but you've got to show up. So a lot of Christians are bored with their Christianity. But the fact is, if you are a Christian, the Holy Spirit in you, that's the one who gives you what it takes, show up and watch what God does. And so the book opens up inviting you to

recognize, we're in a war when you read your Bible, and what we want to do is have anything but a boring Christianity. And so the Christian should be leading the way in the area of courage. It should be coming from us. It's funny, though, because when you, I mean, you were praising me a few minutes ago, and I thought, you know, let's be clear, folks, if when God uses you, you know it's not you. You know it's him and it's humbling because you think, I know that I'm no different than anybody else. Why is God allowing me to give courage to others?

Well, there's a mystery there. But the fact is, God wants to use every one of us. We've got so much more. We'll be right back talking to Pastor Jack Hibbs. A major retail chain just canceled a massive order, leaving My Pillow with an overstock of the classic My Pillows, and this is your gain, because for a limited time, my Pillow is offering their entire classic collection at true wholesale prices. Get a standard MyPillow for just 1798.

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Don't wait. Head to MyPillow.com today. or call 800-978-3057. Now, don't forget to use promo code Eric to grab your standard my pillow for only 1798 only while supplies last. Welcome back. We're talking to my friend, Pastor Jack Hibbs. He's the senior and founding pastor of Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills. I have had the privilege of preaching from your pulpit. What a wonderful, wonderful church you have, Jack. And I got to tell you before I, continue along what we were saying a moment ago.

Your church and your ministry has been such an encouragement to so many. And one of the blessings, folks, Romans 828, COVID was so terrible, but what happened? What is one of the good things that came out of COVID? A lot of people, they were going to a church, then their church shut down. And after five minutes, they said, you know what, I'd like to go to church. Oh, my church is shut down. Any church is open? oh, Jack Hibbs' church is open.

Maybe I'll check that out. And they checked it out. Maybe they just checked it out online. And they were like, what the heck is this? How come I didn't know about this church? I'd like to go to this church. And so the churches that were heroic, and this is true as I travel the country.

I hear this over and over and over again. The churches that stood strongly, whatever, their numbers have blown up. They're building new parking lots. They've got big problems. We don't have enough services. Because the hunger for that is huge, but it was revealed during COVID.

And so I know that there are people that watch you online every week. They get fed from your sermons every week. They never would have discovered you if their church had not shut down, if COVID had not, you know, done all the stuff that it did. So it's kind of amazing to think, Jack, how many people know of you today as a result of the strange thing? You simply said, I think God told us to keep our church open and you actually did. Yeah. Yeah, you know, it's awesome what you just said because Eric, and you're spot on. Every church I know that stayed open or opened their doors up quickly on and were faithful. I mean, every single one of them, not one of them has faulted or failed. And watch this, Eric, I think God not only honored them obeying the word of God by keeping their doors open, but check this out. What followed after COVID? Think about those.

one, two punches that COVID seemed to have launched. Let's say COVID, in an illustration, opened up a door, and it was all about fear. And I'm not denying that people got sick and people died. People get sick and die all the time. It's just that during those COVID years, nobody died from motorcycle accidents, nobody died from cancer. Everybody died from COVID, right, according to the publications of things. Yeah, right. That was my joke, that if you die in a motorcycle accident, they will write cause of death, COVID. Well, I mean, you say it's a joke, but it happened here in Southern California. A guy was actually killed and a motorcycle crash, but the tag on his toe said he died of COVID

because after he was taken to the morgue, he tested positive, and that was the cause of death. How do we know that? Because the very family at this church had to sue the county to get that change to motorcycle death. Yeah. So you're talking about a real thing. But check this out. COVID. and then what followed, BLM, right?

Another decision that the church is going to have to make, BLM. And then the gender issue, always the definition of what is life, abortion. Notice the things that have been in rapid succession and crazy laws, at least here in California, where insanity ensued after COVID. And I believe, Eric, and I don't want to get old goofy strange, you know, but it seems to me, from where we're at, a door opened up where darkness came out, affecting the logic and reason of people. And you would think, oh my gosh, you know, yeah, now that you mention it, but wait, when that happens, the doors of blessing and opportunity are much greater. And so, yeah, our footprint,

my goodness, within a month of the church being open, we doubled in, and we, we went from having about 9,000 people on campus on a Sunday to 15,000, I'm talking adults, 15,000 adults, multiple services. You talked about having to build a building structure or a parking structure, but that's not it. It's beyond that where we created these things called Home Away Group. So many people, Eric, were tuning in from various parts of the world, and they were letting us know, hey, we're here in Australia. We're in Sydney, and we're watching, and we've invited our neighbor. is to join us on Sunday morning, and now we've got a home group.

So we invented, I mean, God invented it. We just obeyed something that we call Home Away. And now we've got so many Home Away groups, we can't keep up with it. They're around the world, and this is all the fruit of COVID. Not to mention, people adopted us as their home church. And so the support that we had prior to COVID was more than enough, Eric. God blessed us more than enough. We're a debt-free church.

We have been from the beginning. But during COVID and now since, we are, it's just off the charts. We're able to create the real-life network. That's an app that's available for free. And listen, it's free for those who get the app, the real-life network program, and it's free for all broadcasters who are on.

It's free. Why, God provided during COVID. a resource engine that is working in perpetuity. It just fuels this and then missions around the world. And with all that's happened in California, the disasters, God has blessed us with the ability to go and help people rebuild their homes, get them back on a job or get them in school to find a new career. It's been ministry at a thousand miles an hour.

We literally cannot keep up with Jesus. You know, I was going to say, it's just there's so much here. I don't know where to begin. First of all, before I get into anything else, just to mention again, your new book, called to take a bold stand. Folks, check it out. But what I was going to say, Jack, which I find so interesting, and it's one of the reasons that I'm encouraged to do this show, I realize that by the grace of God, because I travel

around the country, I bump into things, I hear about things that are never covered in the media. They won't be covered on Fox News, folks. They won't even be covered probably on Newsmax. I mean, there's stuff that just doesn't get covered. And the mainstream media, the liberal media, they will never go near this. And what am I talking about? I'm talking about the headline, as we've been discussing, that because of COVID, the gospel is being preached and places that it wasn't being preached before. There are people tuned in to hear you, Jack, preaching on a Sunday morning around the world. And that you're just one story, but it's a major story that there is revival. The seeds of revival are being planted around the world.

This never gets reported on. It never gets reported on how many kids are being homeschooled. Actually, last night, Greg Kelly on Newsmax talked about this. He was talking to a young woman who'd been homeschooled. And I thought, finally, somebody is talking about this because this is another one of these phenomena that you'd never know. If you're reading newspapers or if you read you. It's like you wouldn't know. There are amazing things going on right now that are laying the seeds for revival. We're seeing the beginnings of revival and more than revival, folks, reformation.

Because when people become Christians, it's, it's, doesn't end there. You don't get translated to glory when you get saved. Now you've crossed the starting line. Now you get to live out your faith in every sphere. And this is happening. And to me, the headline is you're never going to read it in a headline. Like you'll hear it on this show, but take my word for it. I go around the country. I bump into pastors like Jack Hibbs, the story over and over and over again. More and more people are coming. More and more people here. That's effectively revival. People that weren't going to church or they were going to useless churches are now getting fed.

Something is going on, but there's no overt news about it. It's just happening. Kids are getting homeschooled. They've been getting homeschooled for a couple of decades now. They're going out there. They are armed.

Nobody's reporting on that, but it's happening. So it seems to me from what I've been allowed to see by God's grace, the seeds are there. The preparation is there to see something like, we've never we've never seen and and i think that the left uh the mainstream media they could not be less prepared for this they have no idea what is coming yeah you know what eric um for those who don't know i mean they know you this is your program but eric you and i are joined at the hip on what i'm about to say we believe that the bible is not a is not a history book it is a history book and

more. It is always a relevant book. It is, it is the most accurate history book in the world, but it's a book for now, and it's a book that tells us about the future. And so having said that, in California, for example, a lot of people need to hear this. In California, when we fight and we fight for what's right, we don't fight every battle because some stuff, we just leave that to the God. If it's a tax issue, or if it's a, you know, a street sweeping issue. We don't fight that. But as a church, when they come out and they say, abortion now is a California state issue and there's no other, nobody else can speak to that. No, no, no. Listen, Sacramento is going to get a fight from us. If they say, you know what,

we can take total authority of your child. We know better than you. No, no, we're going to fight you on this. Have you said that? That one, what you just said right there, folks, when we come back, Yeah. We're going to talk about that one. This is practically unbelievable. You need to hear this. We'll be right back. Welcome back talking to my friend Pastor Jack Hibbs of Calvary Chapel Chino Hills in Southern California. Jack, you have been one of the heroes that has said, my faith makes me get political because there are people out there whose lives are being destroyed. I ought to know better because by the grace of God, I see what God sees. And therefore, I need to do something about it. it. God has called me to do something about it. God's called me to take a bold stand. That's the title of your book called to take a bold stand. And you have been very vocal recently about something that seems unthinkable about a law being pushed through the California legislature, which would effectively allow strangers, folks. This sounds nuts, except, unfortunately, it's not, to take your children. Now, it's never put that baldly. It's always kind of covered up in some kind of lingo to kind of make it seem like it's a good thing. But ultimately, when you peel away the nonsense verbiage, you see it for what it is, an opportunity for evil people to kidnap your kids if they're in the public schools in California. Again, doesn't seem possible. And if not for you, Jack Hibbs, I wouldn't

even know about this. So talk about that. Well, uh, background. on this. We're talking about Assembly Bill, AB495. AB495, you can Google it later, but let me give you some background before you do that. Yeah, AB495 was created by a freshman assemblywoman in Sacramento, and we have, there's four state senators, Eric, up in Sacramento, that are born-again believers. they happen to be Republicans. And also, we have a ministry that's at the Capitol. I'm not going to give too much details about it. I want to protect it.

But we have a ministry at the Capitol every day that they're in session where Democrat, independent, and Republicans can get prayer, can get counsel. Having said that, we get to hear things before they hit the fan. Number two is California. Listen, California is a super majority Democrat-controlled state. What does that mean? It means that they have such a Democrat stronghold on California. Nothing has to really be put to the vote of the people.

It's no longer California Republic. It is California, the Democrat Party, as it wishes. So what does that mean? That means they pass bills in Sacramento that we never get to voice our opinion on. when we hear something that's egregious and certainly offensive to our constitutional rights or our religious freedoms, I'm going to shout that out. And I did that. And I was the first pastor to do it. And I'm grateful to our sources. And everybody thought I was nuts, Eric. Last month, everybody thought I was crazy. I got slammed. I got cooked. That's okay. I knew what I was talking about. People began looking at it. Fox News began to look at it. CNN began to look at it.

NBC, the Blaze, the Salem News Network. They all began to look at it. And we were able to get, I'm not going to mention their names because you know them, and they're working hard right now. There's five notable constitutional attorneys began to look at it. And they said, here's the deal. This bill is unbelievable, Jack. And here's the thing.

they said usually in law or in legislation the devil is in the details this bill is so brief so vague that the devil is in the vagueness of it all so point number three is this what's it for when you read the title of the bill eric it's the california compassionate preparedness bill california family protection and preparedness bill it actually sounds like a bill for earthquake protection. When you look at the bill, a individual, no driver's license, no birth certificate, no address,

no identity, can go online, if this bill passes, they can go online, they can print out an affidavit at home. They sign their name, only their name. Their name doesn't have to be real. Sign their name. There's a box that says,

did you attempt to reach the guardians or parents of the child. They check yes. Child's name, Susie Jones, Susie Q. He writes in Susie Q. He takes the affidavit to the school office, and because it's a legal document, they cannot withhold handing the child over to this individual

because the ruse, the guys, is under protecting the child from Donald Trump's ICE agents because the assumption in the bill is while the kid was at school, their parents were taken. So this person goes in without identity, gets the child, and takes them out of school. It's compassionate.

Nobody knows who this person is. He doesn't have to them. I just want to phrase this again, just so people are clear. So, folks, you understand how this is diabolical. We're getting to see how evil works, right? The level of deception is really sick. And if you live in a normal world with nice people, you don't ever see how sick, how evil, evil is. Think of the deception.

They create an emergency. They say, oh, Donald Trump and all the evil white nationalist lunatics who hate brown people, they are deporting people. They're going to deport your parents. You're in school. Your parents get deported. So some white savior can come in with an affidavit or anybody and take you out of school. to protect you or whatever it is. They create a scenario to make it sound like we're doing this for the children.

We're doing this because we care. But when you read the actual bill, what it makes possible, as Jack is saying, is unbelievable, utterly diabolical. It means strangers can come in and take your child out of school. This is unreal, but it is happening. And if not for Jack Hibbs, I wouldn't even know about it. When we come back, we will continue talking about this. You need to, you need to listen.

You can go to boldstand.org, boldstand.org. I can't lie. Welcome back talking to Pastor Jack Hibbs of Calvich-Chapalcchino Hills. The new book is called to take a bold stand. You can go to boldstand.org. So, Jack, you're talking about this bill in California. And again, you know, most of us, naive, nice people, we can't imagine that, legislators would do a thing like this that would make it possible, quote, unquote, legally

for strangers to take our kids out of school and get away with it. You think that can't happen in America? How could it happen in America? You're telling me that is what the bill makes possible. You know, Eric, you sit it perfectly right. By the way, what you just articulated before the break, it's actually a tactic of Islam as well. Go into an area. create a problem, let it get out of hand, and then go to the authorities that be, and offer the solution, which allows you to take control. It's an ancient Islamic tactic and warfare, and it's the same thing, which tells me this. It's not Islamic in origin. It's satanic in origin. Here's the deal. Newsom would not shut the California border. We had an influx like no other states,

and now they're among us, and we know this by the crimes that are being committed, and some of the other things that are uniquely international in the conduct of crime is now here in Los Angeles and San Francisco and everywhere else. But you made the great point is this. They created the problem, and then they rush in and say, we've got the answer.

And the answer is, as diabolical as the problem that they created. No ID to cross into America, into California. Well, we're going to just take that same practice, and I'm not kidding, people. Please listen to me. I wish I was joking. I wish I was exaggerating. Are you saying, Jack, a stranger down the street from my house, who doesn't like me?

They don't like my family. They know we're Christians or whatever. When I go to work, that person knows that my kid goes to X, Y, Z, elementary. Are you saying that while I'm at work, that person who has nefarious ideas about how much they hate my family can go and request my child with an actual affidavit from the state of the state of of California, that's a legal document. Take my kid out. Then I go to pick my kid up and my kid's not there and I tell the school, where's my

kid? And the school is not under obligation to tell me who it was, what he looked like or what her name was. They just took him? And the answer to that is yes. And if you think I'm kidding, go Google it and look and see at the rise of two things. Number one, look at the vast amount of people now exposing it for the evil that it is like Eric is right now, and then also look at who's defending the bill.

Eric, I hope I don't defend some of your listeners, but it's overwhelming. It is overwhelmingly supported by the Democrat Party of California. It's coming to a state near you, if it's not stopped here, and it's being supported by people who are organizations that are anti-ice. Stop immigration, customs, and enforcement. Stop Donald Trump. These same groups are supporting the bill. What does that tell you?

You can know a bill by who's the author is, who's standing against it, and who's standing for it. This is a black and white issue where it's so crystal clear, but every child in California now is subject. It's not limited to public school. It brings every child's subject to this insanity. And I know people say, well, that's why I left California. Well, listen, we're fighting. Eric, you know, there's some trends happening in California that people are probably going to regret in the next. next maybe two or next two or three election cycles,

they're going to regret that they sold their home in California because California is going red folks. People are waking up. Pastors are waking up. Eric, we had over 6,500 people show up on a simple invitation to Sacramento to the steps of the Capitol. It was the largest gathering, grassroots gathering. In 30 years, the sergeant of arms of the Capitol said,

we've not seen a crowd like this in 30 years. Why? It was about AB 495. It was specifically for this bill. I mean, I remember when you were calling people to come to Sacramento to stand against this. And this is the thing, Jack, is that people are waking up. And sometimes, you know, evil always overplays its hand. Yes.

And eventually people go, whoa, whoa, what? What? Really? Now I got to do something. So people are standing. And I think, you know, we both said this many times. if everybody in California would register to vote and vote, none of this could happen. This is because of the lies that have been preached from innumerable pulpits and that are

preached from innumerable pulpits today. Many people listen to this program go to these churches and support these churches with God's money where they do not tell you to stand against this. They pretend it's somebody else's problem. We're just going to preach the gospel. God is a judge, folks. If you do nothing when you can do something, if you don't vote if you don't tell people to vote, if you don't tell people to stand against this evil, you're part of it, you're complicit. And of course, in a letter to the American church, I write about this. That's what happened in Germany. This stuff happens. It happens. The enemy will take advantage, however you can take advantage. And the most wicked thing is when churches do not stand

against it. So I'll say it and say it again, if you go to a church that is not talking about this stuff, you're on the hook, folks. You're complicit. I know you've got all your religious excuses. God is a judge. And I just want to say, it's not biblical. You've been deceived. This is very, very important. And many pastors in California are waking up, but there are many that are not yet awakened. Many people somehow think it's somebody else's problem. Eric, Jesus said that because we are his, we will be hated like he's hated. And so the challenge in my life is, who was the most loving individual? that ever grace the planet earth, it's Jesus.

Who is not only the most hated individual that's ever grace planet earth, Jesus again, but isn't interesting that he said, if you follow me, don't lose heart, don't be discouraged over this, they're going to hate you, but they hated me first. So my question, introspective question, my soul search sounds like this.

Jack, who are my friends and who are my enemies? and does the answer to those questions, do the answer to those questions align with Scripture? As a pastor, am I hated by the right people? Am I loved by the right people? This is a huge question, because why is it, have we fallen into the trap as men in the pulpit to find out if we're successful or not

by how many likes we have? Or if our post is trending? Oh my goodness, if that drives us, we've already lost the course. We've already fallen off the cliff. But we need to be prophets called by God. And I believe if you're called in the ministry in this day and age, there's going to be a prophetic element to your ministry. Yes, you may be a great Bible teacher or a great evangelist, but there's got to be a prophetic

nature to it. Why? Because prophetic things are happening right now. And Eric, we're living in a season. We're living in a season. We're going to keep you for another segment if you can stay. Well, folks, go to boldstand.org. Boldstand.org.

Welcome back talking to my friend Pastor Jack Hibbs. He's the pastor of Calvary Chapel, Chino Hills, Southern California. The new book is called to take a bold stand. And Jack, you were just saying that, look, the Lord is alive. And so it's not like, oh, here's a book of, you know, here's how to live. It's like, yes, but God is alive now. He wants us to be aware of the moment in which he has called us to live so that we can stand in the way that he calls us to stand. So nobody can get out of this, folks.

This is not like, well, that's somebody else's problem. Every one of us has a role to play. And not every one of us is going to play the same role, but God has prepared you. And, you know, the first chapter of your book is you have what it takes. So, Jack, I mean, everybody has what it takes. God has prepared every one of us and is in the process of preparing us to play our role. I didn't think I would ever write a book called Letter to the American Church or that I would be talking about this stuff or the people would say, oh, you're so bold. It's like, I didn't sign up for that.

But if God signs you up, you're a fool not to step up because he made you for that. And we're living in those times, Jack. I mean, you and I get to be alive. You know, 25 years ago, it wasn't like this. The Lord has prepared us for such a time as this. There's no denying it. Here we are. With everything you were just saying, you were just pulling words right out of my mouth,

and I'm so happy to hear that. Number one, Eric, people tell you and I, you know, I'm really appreciate what you do. I'm not bold like you. They have no idea. You do, I do. They have no idea that we tremble. What we're doing is sheer obedience to our king. I was the guy that was timid hiding in the corner.

I was the Gideon down at the bottom of the hole, you know, where God pulls you up. The thing that God gave you and I, when it says in the opening chapter, you have what it takes, is this. As believers, we have the Holy Spirit in us because we're saved. We're sealed by God, the Spirit, into the Day of Redemption. You said it, Eric, the word of God is alive and His Word is alive. So the combination is this. inside of Eric and Jack and you dwells the Holy Spirit in these vessels of clay. But he wants to do great things. That's why we love reading the accounts of great exploits in the

Bible. In fact, Daniel 1132 says those who know their God will carry out great exploits. So we love reading about Little David. We love reading about Gideon or about Joshua. We love all these things where Israel or the warrior is completely outnumbered. And we tell them to our kids as though they're stories. They're real, folks. So if you're weak like Eric and Jack, but we're yielded to the authority of his word, then we get to take a bold stand because the Holy Spirit will push us out in the front and we're terrified. And he says, don't worry about it. Just show up to the battle. I'll take care of it. And I would to God, Eric, and I know you share this, that every believer right now would say, you know what, I'm going to find something in my community or in my church to take a bold

stand about and unborn or bad laws or whatever it is. I'm going to stand and I'm going to see if God shows up. Friends, he's going to blow your mind and he's going to give you energy that you never had before because you're walking with him. Just hang on to his robe. I was going to say, we're pretty much out of time, but folks, get in the game. You don't know what you're missing. You do not know what you're missing. It's just a joy. The book is called, to take a bold stand. Pastor Jack Hibbs, go to boldstand.org.

And I just want to say again, Jack, everybody is called to get in the game. Folks, the adventure with God that God has created you for to live, that's your best life. That is exactly the joyful life, the life adventure that you're looking for. He created you for this.

There are no exceptions, but he doesn't force you to do anything about it. it. Jack Hibbs, just always a joy to speak with you, my friend. Thank you so much. Thank you, Eric.