The Eric Metaxas Show - Paul Gottfried

Episode Date: November 11, 2021

Paul Gottfried takes the fight directly to the fascists with his newest offering, "Antifascism: The Course of a Crusade," the book that follows up on his previous expose of the subject.

Eric Mettaxas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey there, folks. Did you want to know what fascism was? Have you ever asked? What is fascism? Well, there's a book. It's called Fascism, the career of a concept written by Paul Gottfried. Did you want to know what Antifa was?

What is anti-fascism, as they call it? Well, I believe Antifa or anti-fascism is in fact fascism. And Paul Gottfried has written a book titled, Anti-Fascism, the Course of a Crusade. Who is Paul Gottfried, you wonder? I'll tell you. First of all, he's my guest for this hour. He is the editor of Chronicles. Some of you know that journal.

He's an American paleo-conservative philosopher-historian columnist. He's a former Horace Raffensberger Professor of Humanities at Elizabethtown College in Elizabethtown, Pennsylvania, as well as a Guggenheim recipient, Wow. Dr. Gottfried, welcome to this program. Thank you for having me on. Well, it's a joy to have you on and to talk about your new book, Anti-Fascism. You had to be aware that there's something funny about the idea that you've written a book called Fascism, the Career of a Concept, Followed by Anti-Fascism, the Course of a Crusade.

Tell us about that. Well, you know, I became interested in the subject of fascism. Before I was confronted by the problem of the woke left, which is what we're dealing with right now, much of my earlier scholarship dealt with political movements and movements of the right as well as movements of the left. And I wrote a biography of Karl Schmidt, a German political theorist who influenced into war fascism. So it was sort of natural that at some point I'd wrote a book on fascism as well. And in studying the book on fascism, I was informed by a person who has become sort of my mentor, Stanley Payne, who's probably the outstanding scholar on the subject of fascism, that the best part of the book was my treatment of anti-fascism.

So I was urged by Stanley and then by Amy Ferranto, who was my – my editor at Cornell University in Northern Illinois University Presses, they're now merged, that I should write a book on anti-fascism, which I did. And as I told her, I found it much less interesting to my book on fascism because the people I was dealing with were much less intelligent, although they were generally, at least as lunatic. You were surprised that the Mermedons of Antifa are not geniuses, this surprised you?

Well, what surprised me was how stupid they are. Right. We deal with people like Mark Bray or Snyder at Yale or some of these Timothy Stanley at also at Yale, who's professor of philosophy, they really are dimwits. And their capacity to analyze political movements is extremely limited and sort of driven by their obvious political agenda. Well, it's hard to find anybody in the academy at this point who's not either driven by political agenda or cowed by those driven by political agenda.

We have to go backwards just because I have you here. I want to know, you know, when people talk about fascism, these words are brooded about all our lives, but then I think sometimes we say, wait a minute, wait a minute, what exactly is fascism. You know, when we think of fascism, we think of Mussolini and Hitler, when we think of Bolshevism, we think of Lenin, we think of it. Isn't fascism really, and you may disagree, but that's why I'm asking, isn't fascism effectively no different than totalitarian communism? I mean, what does it matter that one is theoretically on the right, the other is theoretically on the left? I think of this, there's a golden mean of American style self-government and freedom.

And then whether on the left or the right, you know, it's like one is walking the tightrope. And if you fall to the left of the right, you still go down into whether it's fascism or Antifa or or cultural Marxism. All of it is roughly the same. In my view, it doesn't believe in freedom. Is it any more, is it much more complicated than that? I think it is. I think there are gradations of unfreedom or authoritarianism or totalitarianism. And I think that the left is inherently more totalitarian than the traditional right. Now, here I would exclude the Nazis who I think represent a fusion of Stalinism and certain elements of Latin fascism,

mixed, of course, together with Hitler's personality. But Italian fascism, is not particularly authoritarian. It does create a one-party state. It tries to marginalize opposition. But compared to the woke left that we're dealing with today, it was not all that bad. But that's kind of the point, right? Well, I'm sorry, keep going.

Keep going. Naziism, I think, obviously represents a kind of brutal form of totalitarianism. but it was not as totalitarian as Stalinism. You know, Hitler let people leave his country for a few years before he started a war. And he sort of gave up on the idea of influencing, taking over universities and turning everybody into a Nazi. He was not as thorough as the woke capitalist, not the woke capitalist, but the woke left is today, nor was he as thorough as the communist in terms of trying to control people. I think there's something in the left that makes all the left inherently totalitarian. They really want to reconstruct human nature.

They represent a post-Christian, post-liberal kind of ideology, which does not allow for dissent of any kind. I think what we're seeing in the United States today is in many ways the natural working out of leftist ideology. Well, yes, but I guess I'm just going to ask a lot of questions just because I have you, Paul Gottfried, as my guest, that I'm fascinated that I can get answers to things I've wondered about for a long time. Why would we say that fascism or Nazism is on the right and the radical left is on the left? I don't get it. In other words, to me, freedom is freedom. And when you veer away from freedom, in other words, what is the best? big difference between what we will call fascism under Hitler and totalitarianism under the Chinese

today or the Soviets? Okay, I think from our perspective, and I think we sort of share the same sort of liberal constitutional views, traditional liberal, that, you know, we favor freedom, limited government, all these other good things. They may look the same, but they're not. I think that Italian fascism is sort of on the low end of authoritarianism. I think that the communists are much more thorough in their efforts to control people's behavior. The right is anti-egalitarian. It's hierarchical.

The left believes in some, maybe some abstract sense, but often in some practical sense, that all human beings are equal and interchangeable, right? But of course, it's patently hypocritical nonsense. In other words, let's not pretend because they say they believe in these things that when you look at communist societies, you see strata. You do not see everybody treated the same. So that's called hypocrisy or lying. And you see it everywhere whenever you're dealing with socialism

or communism. And I think that I still don't see that the differences are that big of a deal. In fact, I agree with you that when you think about Mussolini, Mussolini is a pussycat compared to Hitler or Stalin. So these are just terms. Why don't we talk about where the term fascism comes from? I see the picture of Roman fascis on the cover of your book, Fascism. Talk about that for a moment, about where the movement.

movement came from fascism itself? Yeah, the early fascist movement is concerned with returning to Latin Roman antiquities. Remember, the Foskes was carried by the Lictor, who was one of the officials in when he walked in front of the consul. I've asked you a whopping big question, just as we're going to a break. Just to show you, I'm still new at this. We'll be right back, folks. I'm talking to Dr. Paul Gottfried.

the book is anti-fascism. Hey folks, I've got to tell you a secret about relief factor that the father, son, owners, Pete and Seth Talbot, have never made a big deal about, but I think it is a big deal. I really do. They sell the three-week quick-start pack for just 1995 to anyone struggling from pain like neck, shoulder, back, hip, or knee pain,

1995, about a dollar a day. But what they haven't broadcasted much is that every time they sell a three-week quick start, they lose money. In fact, they don't even break even. until about four to five months after if you keep ordering it. Friends, that's huge. People don't keep ordering Relief Factor month after month if it doesn't work. So yes, Pete and Seth are literally on a mission to help as many people as possible deal with their pain. They really do put their money where their mouths are. So if you're in pain from exercise or even just getting older,

order the three-week quick start for 1995. Let's see if we can get you at a pain too. Go torelieffactor.com. Relieffactor.com or call 800-500-384. 800-500-800-384. Relieffactor. I use it. It works. Hey there, folks. Talking to Paul Gottfried, the author of many books, the editor of Chronicles. One book we're discussing is fascism, the career of a concept, and then the new book, Anti-Fascism, the Course of a Crusade. You were just answering my big question, Dr. Gottfried, about what is fascism and how did it

start? So if you don't mind, go back to what you were saying about how you have Mussolini looking back to this era of Roman antiquity. Go ahead. Yeah, all fascist movements, what I call generic fascist movements, and I think the Nazis represent a more complicated and brutal model, but also generic fascism, which is essentially Latin fascism, wants to return to Roman antiquity.

They're always backward-looking. This is one thing that clearly distinguishes them from the left. The left rejects the past. You know, it wants to go into a future that it is creating for us, a monstrous future, one I wouldn't care to live in, but they're rejecting the past. I mean, that's why the left runs around tearing down statues and telling you that, you know, all white people in their history is evil, because they wanted to create something new, whereas the fascists are always trying to return, you know, to some idealized pass,

usually a pre-Christian past. And I think you see this in the Fosgays, which are featured on the cover. of my book on fascism. The so-called bundle of sticks with the axe. Well, okay, so, but this seems to me these are in some ways peripheral differences because, okay, you say, oh, conservatives want to go back to the past. The hard left wants to go back into some utopian pseudo-future. Right, right.

And yet, when you look at the Nazis and you look at Antifa today, there's a, there's a brutality. They are really unwilling. The reason you say post-Christian, or pre-Christian, rather, it seems to me that actual Christianity, the Bible, scares these folks because these folks are all about power, and they know that power cannot coexist with inalienable rights, with the sanctity of the human being.

So they have to crush that. otherwise they can't succeed. They have that in common. Yeah, I agree with you about that. In fact, the first chapter of my book on anti-fascism deals with the similarities between BLM and the Antifa movements and the brown shirts under the Nazis. They're exactly the same tactics. And they also have sort of both had wide support systems. There was some sympathy for what they were doing among the populace, which is not true, by the way, about the American Communist Party in the United States, which was always isolated, even if it represented Soviet subversion. But that was, you know, they put people in the State Department.

The communists did not have the kind of power that BLM and the woke left does today. But that's the point. That's why they've reinvented themselves as BLM and Antifa. So they are basically those communists having gone through the long march to the institutions in a different form calling themselves anti-fascist or BLM, they're all cultural Marxists and they just have changed the terminology. That's how I see it. Yeah, I think the cultural Marxists are far more dangerous than the regular Marxists because they're trying to destroy human nature in a way that Marxists did not. I mean, the Marxists tried to change things socioeconomically. They created, you know, monstrous economies, they created totalitarian societies.

They did not make a war against gender roles. They did not. There was no need for them to do that. They made a war against anything that threatened them, and they weren't able to use that as a lever at that time. But, I mean, if you think about what people went through in the Gulag, I mean, it really was to unmake the person in the same way that the Chinese communist dictators are trying to do with Uyghur Muslims. They're trying to crush you. They will leave you alone only if you don't threaten them. You know, I agree. I mean, you know, the actual market.

Marxists and power were more brutal, but then they had more opportunity. There was less resistance once they took over. But I think what the cultural Marxists are aiming at is much more diabolical, which is totally to destroy any traditional human relations that have existed until now. The Marxists never went quite that far, and it is the pervasiveness of this woke ideology throughout every Western former democracy that I find the most terrifying aspect of their project. I mean, there's so little control against them, whereas, you know, you could always attack Marxists on the grounds that they reckon the economy and people are going to be poor. But, you know, until the election in Virginia, I really didn't see very much pushback against global.

But don't you think just because it hasn't been clear? like people have lost who said it cultural confidence. And so you let the visigoths in because you don't have any cultural will. You don't know who you are. But when things get bad enough as they have in the last year or so, especially, suddenly people wake up. Suddenly people see, hey, wait a minute. This is madness on every front. What's going on?

I mean, I really think that finally many Americans who were just kind of letting it ride, understand that they can't? You know, I think that's true. They've also been indoctrinated at so many different levels and through so many institutions that sort of weakened their resistance to this. And, you know, my book on anti-fascism, I make the argument that the left is always fighting fascism,

which means Hitler, which means Auschwitz. And if you disagree with them on anything, you know, you would be a person who would be committing the Holocaust or do even worse things. So, you know, if I say, no, I don't. want transgender hormones to be given to these kids, you know, you're just the kind of person who would have supported the Third Reich. I mean, they should...

Oh, wait a minute. The only reason they say that is so that if they get the power, they can have their own version of Auschwitz in which they murder people like you who hold those views. You're totally right. I mean, I don't disagree or entirely right. Yeah, I mean, obviously, if they had power, they would be utterly destructive, but that they would do in the name of fighting fascism. Right, but I guess what I see in common is that Hitler and Stalin and Antifa today, they are at war with God.

They're at war with God's view of the human person. And when they hide it, when they're able to hide it, they hide it. Hitler was able to hide it for quite some time and throw the word God around. But it seems like at this point, they're less able to hide it. hide it and that it's kind of an all-out war against God and anything that is a reflection of him or his views. I agree. No, I think the traditional religion is seen as an obstacle in their way, and they're going to do

everything to destroy. Well, at the same time, being parasitic on it. Like they'll say, you know, we believe in universal men. We don't, we're against racism. Yeah, why? Why are they against racism? Why is a Marxist against racism? I'd love to know.

Well, I mean, they're against racism because they believe that all people are interchangeable. And they can – human nature is fluid and they can change everybody in the end. By the way, this is something that distinguishes them from classical fascism. Because fascists would say that people's identity is fixed. You cannot change them. Whereas the left always believes that human beings are infinitely malleable and that traditional religion is among the factors that have kept, you know, that have kept people back. But only to a point, in other words, when it comes to race, the radical left doesn't believe

that we're malleable. It believes that things are fixed. In other words, this is where they're caught in a bird's nest of self-contradiction, because when it suits them, they say that we're infinitely malleable, that there are no borders anywhere, not on continents, not on land, not in our lives, not among species, that anything can be anything until it doesn't suit their purposes and they have to define you as white and therefore racist. So it just seems to me they're doing what one does when all one cares about is power. They will say whatever they need to say and float whatever current theory or sub-theory they need to float in order to gain power in order to fool the people to whom they're speaking. Yeah, I think they are driven by a hatred

of human nature or anything fixed in the world. And I think it's real hatred. And I think this hatred is mixed with this lust for power. They do hate white male Christians, you know, whom they see is the enemy. And this comes out, you know, in many, many ways. And it contradicts, I think, as you pointed out, this invocation of universalism and everybody being done. There are fixed groups whom they're really. out to get. And I think in this way, they're very similar to the Nazis in their politics of hate,

which, of course, they pretend to be something else. Well, I mean, of course, it's a little bit complicated. I really do think that these monsters themselves don't know what they're about exactly because it's not intellectually consistent. So they can't really know they're at the mercy of these demons that on the one hand caused them to talk about universal brotherhood. And the other hand to say, I hate everybody in this group. So it's almost a comical level of miscommunication. We're going to go to a break, folks. I'm talking to Dr. Paul Gottfried. Paul Gottfried is the author of the new book, Anti-Fascism, The Course of a Crusade. Don't go away. Hey, folks, Eric Metaxis here. Joe Biden and the Democrats have laid out the most socialist

agenda our country has ever seen. Instead of following President Trump's blueprint that had the economy booming, the Dems are going to raise taxes, increased regulations, and skyrocket an already outrageous national debt. If your retirement is in traditional investments, it is in jeopardy. Americans should be diversifying their investments with gold and precious metals. Gold gives you control over your wealth and protects you from market volatility, inflation, and a weakening dollar. When investing in gold, I turn to legacy precious metals. Legacy Precious Metals has over 40 years of experience in helping Americans protect their finances, and this team is prepared to patiently consider your own personal financial needs.

If you're looking to invest in gold, call the good folks at Legacy Precious Metals today at 866 473-6204 or visit them online at LegacyPMinvestments.com. Don't leave your retirement to chance, friends. Contact Legacy Precious Metals today. That's 866-473-6204. Hey there, folks. I'm talking to Dr. Paul Gottfried, the author of... author of Anti-Fascism, the course of a crusade. For whom did you write this book, Dr. Gottfried?

I see on the cover, it looks like a Marxist, activist, planning his flag. Antifa, anti-fascists style themselves as somehow on the left, the good guys, they're against Nazism, but they're more horrible or as horrible as the Nazis ever were. or where they aspire to be as horrible? Yeah, one of the arguments I make in the book is that they always see themselves as being in the interwar European struggle between fascism and communism. You know, they go to the popular front on one side and then the reactionary Spanish government and the Nazis and the Italian fascists and so forth. They see themselves as still involved in a struggle that took place a long time ago. And they typically side with the communists, which is interesting, although the communists are homophobic, sexist, all the things that we're not supposed to do here.

Anti-Semitic. They still go around defending, I don't know, Kay Guevara, who was a racist, a real racist. They'll defend Castro. They want to identify themselves with what in their own. mind is an eternal left. So they always see themselves involved in the interwar struggle against fascism, which goes on and on. You know, it never ends. But what they have in common, of course, and I mean, I always want to try to make this point, is that Antifa, which says we're antifascist and so-called fascists and cultural Marxists and actual Marxists and on and on and on.

What they all have in common is they reject the God of the Bible and the values of the God of the Bible, which values have led to self-government on the American model, have led to the dignity of everyone, have led us away from slavery. In other words, they reject that God, and they reject that kind of freedom and government and attempt to replace it with something, which they themselves don't. really seem to know what it is. It seems to be this chimera. They're never going to get there, but they keep talking about it. And I think if we finally kill enough people, we'll finally achieve what we want. No, I think you're right. It's very clear what they reject. It's less clear what they want. And particularly when you get to the woke left, I mean, all they do is cancel and riot and do things like that. The communist, the old-fashioned communist, had some vestigial Marxist view that at the end of this process, we're going to have a socialist

society, and the state will wither away. Of course, it never happened, you know, and in practice, they behave like Nazis, but at least in theory, this was going to happen. The president woke left. I'm not sure they even have a vision beyond being destructive, nihilistic. I think the word nihilism does apply to them. And the hypocrisy to me is, and the hypocrisy to me is, absolutely glaring. They don't seem to care if Muslims are sexist, if they abuse women. It's only if white Christians do this, you know. And, well, now, what's the reason for that? What is there? Why, I mean, I have a theory. Why do you say that they could be that just, just almost unbelievably hypocritical and self-contradictory? I mean, you're quite right. They will

ally themselves with Muslim radicals who ostensibly stand for. for everything against what they stand for. Why? Because they hate their own society, and they hate the society of their ancestors. You see this particularly among Germans, and I was a German historian, that, you know, present-day in present-day Germany, you know, Muslims are glorified, even if they're sexist, whatever, even if they commit crimes against women, they'll cover the political left will cover up for them. all the same thing is happening here in the United States, because they're driven by what they hate and hate their own civilization and they hate their ancestral civilization. And that, I think, is maybe

even more important than their lust for power in the end. Is this hatred? Yeah, hatred. It's interesting to me because what we're talking about really is post-logical. In other In other words, they would say that logic is a patriarchal construct. You're not going to fool me with your brilliant arguments. My rage will kill you and your stupid arguments, and I will have my way. So it's a Nietzschean nihilistic will to power masquerading as something more complicated. Yeah, I think there is a will to power, but I think there's also this blind hatred and just bullying. They like to bully.

that may be more powerful the will to power which is the they're going to push other people around people whom they have contempt and fortunately the people for whom they have contempt is give in all the time

you know they have absolutely no backbone that's why that's why this process of hectoring and bullying goes on well I mean you could take this I always think of you know the Columbia University president's office being taken over

by teenage thugs because already in 1968, this spirit was roaming abroad in the land. The adults figured we've got nothing to say the young people. It's like this Russoian idea of the innocent young people are going to teach us the way of the future, which is just it's utterly preposterous, but it's been going on now for over 50 years. No, I agree, because I'm old enough to remember that. He has an assistant professor at Cape Western Reserve when this was going on. And we were also taken over by these leftist thugs.

And the reaction of the older fact is, you know, they're young people. And we really have injustice in our society and so forth. It was very little attempt to resist this. Right. Okay. We're going to go to another yet another break. Very happy to be talking to Dr. Paul Gottfried. The book is anti-fascism.

Hey, folks, all of you out there know that my pillow doesn't have box stores. or any shopping channels. They've been part of this canceled culture, and they want to pass the savings on directly to you. So you can get the lowest price in the history of MyPillow for their classic standard My Pillar regularly 69.98, now only 1998, with promo code Eric. They also have queen size regularly 79.98, now 2498 with promo code Eric,

or King size regularly 89.98, only 2998 with promo code Eric. My pillow is not just Pillar. They've got over 150 products, everything from sleepwear to slippers and dog beds, you name it. My promo code Eric also works on MyStore.com. You can get my books and Frankspeech.com. Go to MyPillow.com or call 1-800-978-3057. Use promo code Eric to take advantage of Mike's special offer on his standard MyPillow. That's MyPillow.com promo code Eric or 1-800-9783057.

Folks, I'm talking about Dr. Paul Gottfried, the author of Anti-Fascism, the course of of a crusade. Dr. Gottfried, maybe the most disturbing thing about what we can just call woke ideology, this madness, which is cultural Marxism, is that major multinational corporations seem to be abetting this. The Democratic Party, which used to be an American party, is aiding and abetting this. How do we explain multinational organizations, seemingly having zero values, not caring about human beings, not caring about Uyghur Muslims in China, and just not only going along with this, or the same as the NBA or Nike, how do we explain that? Yeah, I think that's a complicated problem, and it's one that, you know, I don't think I adequately

addressed in my book, because like you, I'm puzzled by what I'm seeing. clearly these corporate capitalists do not believe they're going to be expropriated and they don't take the socialist aspects of the woke left seriously. I think they do, they're obviously not the totality of what the left is pushing, but they are an aspect of it. But I think many of these woke capitalists are themselves imbued with woke ideology. They believe this stuff, you know, just as, there were a German plutocrats who may well have believed in what the Nazis said

and were not simply going along for the right or because they were being forced to. I think other woke capitalists are following the path of least resistance. They know that if they do something that the left doesn't like, the left may use violence against them. So they're cowards. Since we don't have a ton of time, let's cut to the chase. They're cowards. They are throwing other people under the bus.

so that they don't get in trouble. They're throwing people out of the sleigh so the wolves can get those people and they can continue on the step. I agree. No, I think a lot of this is cowardice. I think they can survive and their fortunes will not be taken away

as long as they follow the lead of the left and do with the left ones and give money to BLM. There's lots of woke capitalism that's going to be money that's going to be LM. There's hundreds of millions of dollars that they've given. And it's not something a matter of giving the Democratic Party.

They give it to the people who are the hellrazers causing violence, hoping that their business establishments or their buildings will not be affected. It's like paying the mob. In other words, they have no values except survival. Right. No, I think you're absolutely right. And they also, of course, give money to the Democratic Party. and occasionally they host things for BLM leaders, people associated with Antifa.

No, they're utterly corrupt. Okay, are these not simply limousine liberals? Is this not Leonard Bernstein and the Black Panthers? Take us back to that era, which you remember. How is it any different? I think that should be the beginning. And if you remember, the late Tom Wolfe wrote a very good work on this, you know, the Leonard Bernstein's party and how all these.

the incipient woke capitalists were invited. But I think what we're seeing is much worse. You know, it's not simply a matter of coming out occasionally for some leftist cause or radical cause, which is what Wolf is pilloring. It's people who devote a lot of money and a lot of energy to pushing the woke left and who are closely allied with it. And we'll go ahead and fire people who, you know, are not politically correct. One of the things I point in my book is the attempt to impose gender-free language on people, on their workforces, which many of these capitalists are doing. They never seem to miss a beat. I mean, whether it's a matter of supporting, you know, black thugs, Antifa riots, or, you know, coming out for transgendering and so forth, they seem to buy, you know, the whole nine yards.

Well, again, I would simply say the reason Leonard Bernstein and his pals didn't do what their equivalents are doing today is because they didn't yet have the power. They were on their way. They were only beginning the march through the institutions back then, and they did what they could. Yeah, I don't think they were as radical because the age in which they were living, the age in which I lived, you know, I was a young man there. was not as radical. It's so culturally radical as it has become. I have no doubt that if they were around, they would be, you know, the woe capitalist today. Because if you look at people, I don't know, like Harry Belafonte was sort of a, you know, a kind of generic liberal back in the 1960s. Well, you know, now he's supporting Black Lives Matter in his old age. So, I mean, these people keep moving to the left. I mean, they're driven, well, I might say, by the force of events and the force of their own ideology. But back in the 1960s, people were not as open to the cultural radicalism that has now overtaken us. Well, but again, the intellectuals, whether it's Lillian Hellman or Jean-Paul Sart, they, it really is the same thing. It's just that now it's kind of coming back to bite them.

And some of them are waking up and they're saying, hey, wait a minute. Why can't I joke about this or I can't joke about that? But, I mean, imagine if Lenny Bruce were alive today. I wonder what he would say. Yeah, I think we're dealing with, you know, it's not so much ideology here as personalities. There are people who feel alienated from bourgeois Christian society who are going to ally with whatever is on the left. So, you know, we're not dealing with the Communist Party that Joe McCarthy attacked

any longer because, you know, the Soviet Empire is gone and you don't have that option. So what these people identify with is are transgendered people or, you know, black revolutionaries who are rioting and burning down cities. Because that is where a person who feels alienated from what we'd consider normal society would go. But they've given themselves permission to hate, which I find fascinating. As a Christian, I don't have permission to hate. I have permission to fight against evil, but not to hate. They seem to have given themselves permission to hate. And I saw it when I was at Yale in the early 80s already, that we have the moral superiority and we can hate those fascists and those bigots.

And it makes you feel good. This is really that. They have somehow made hate a virtue. I agree. I think what they would say is moral indignation. They're angry at the evil people, like us. and, you know, this is not really hate. It's justified anger that they're expressing.

Of course, it's the same thing, you know, in practice. Right. And now I'm sorry we're out of time. Just a joy to have you. Dr. Paul Gottfried, the book is Anti-Fascism, the Course of a Crusade. Dr. Gottfried, thank you. Thank you for having me. Don't tell them how you.

Oh, my goodness. I'm not coming in the studio anymore. If we're going to have a crazy day like this. It was this crazy. Oh, my goodness. First you got that Ben Carson guy. Come on. You know, brain surgeon, really?

Yeah, it's easy to say. Yeah. I haven't seen any videotapes of him doing any brain surgery. Not me either. You know, people blow smoke. You can say anything to want. Godfrey talking about Antifa. Yep.

Now, tomorrow, we're going to be talking to my friend Norman Stone. Yes. He has a film out. Folks, just do this. Please go to c.S. Louismovie.com. C.S. Louismovie. Don't forget.

I think tomorrow we're going to have Brian Kilmead on. Yeah, we're having Brian Kilmead and Norman Stone. Tomorrow. Tomorrow. One of the other or the... No, no, no. I think we're going to have both of them tomorrow. Okay.

Let me ask folks, did you know, ladies and gentlemen, I found out that you can still get my new book for $15. I thought this was only, you know, for the first week or two weeks or pre-order or something. But if you go to my website, Ericmetaxis.com, now you're going to want to get many copies for Christmas. I know you do. I know when you see the book, you're going to say, aha, yes. I only wish I could get it for less than it's available at these other websites. Well, I'm here to tell you that last night I learned you can,

but you have to go to my website, Ericmetaxis.com. When you click on the book page and you scroll down, I think it's the Baker Book link. There's a lot of links there. but $1497 or $15 or whatever it is, trust me when I tell you that is a crazy steal for this book. The response to it has been actually better than I hoped. It's been fantastic.

But you have to go to ericmetaxis.com. I want you to know about that. I also want you to know that if you go to my store.com, the Bonhofer posters, we still have some, but they're selling well, which I'm not surprised, because we price everything as low as we can. But if you want to be inspired, and we need to be inspired, I was talking about this the other day in Wichita,

we need to inspire each other. And the Bonhofer poster says it's the famous quote, often attributed to him, but not actually attributable to him. So you can say that Eric Mataxis came up with it. But the quote, which is unfortunately very applicable to where we are now, is silence in the face of evil, is itself evil. Not to speak is to speak, not to act, is to act.

God will not hold us guiltless. So if you look the other way when you see bad things happening, if you look the other way when you see people abusing their power, forcing kids to wear masks, you've got to speak up. When things are going on and you don't speak up at the school board, you need to speak up. Don't let anyone intimidate you or threaten you that you're a domestic terrorist. unless you think you actually are a domestic terrorist, in which case, stay home.

But we've got to speak up, we've got to push back. So if you go to my store.com and use the code, Eric, you can get the Bonhoeffer posters and most of my books. You know what's really funny years ago, I'd always hard to expression, all politics are local. Well, we're finding that out today. It really starts at the local level, and then it kind of works its way up. Well, it's become local again because we've seen how mayors and governors are. abusing their power just on an outrageous level. We never thought we'd see it in America.

But if you're not part of pushing back somehow, yes. Look, you can just write a check to one of the organizations that is doing good. I won't mention any. But the point is there are all kinds of people fighting. You need to get in the fight. And I want to encourage you to do that. I also want to say that I think we're done.

Really? I think I've covered everything. Oh, my goodness. But Mike Lindell needs our help. Go to MyPillow.com or Frankspeech.com or, obviously, lindelTV.com. At any of the discounts at Frankspeech.com, some of which are phenomenal. Use the code to Eric. And don't forget, this program is on TV every day. LindelTV.com, 3 p.m. Eastern.

LindelTV.com. And now Eric is speechless. 3 p.m. Eastern. Thank you.