The Eric Metaxas Show - Paul Kengor (Encore)

Episode Date: July 6, 2021

Just how dangerous is Marxism? Political Science professor Paul Kengor breaks down the disaster that this particular worldwide has unleashed upon the world with thoughts pulled from his book, "The Devil and Karl Marx." (Encore Presentation)

It's the show that Mark Twain once called Smartern, a Blue Jay, what can talk possum, and faster than a naked fat man riding a bolt of lightning. So here's your plain spoken homespun host, Eric Mataxis. Hey there, folks. Welcome to Eric Mataxis show. We have a very special treat. We got a lot of special treats, but you know what? If it's special, it's special. Today, there's a new book out.

I am very excited to talk to the author. The book is called The Devil and Carl Marx. the author we've had on this program before, his name is Paul Kangor of Grove City College. Paul Kangor, welcome to this program and congratulations on what seems to me a rather important book, especially for such a time as this, if I can quote. Well, as somebody, as a man who wrote a lot of important books, you, thank you. I appreciate that. I know we've had you to Grove City College in the past, and I must add, you don't want to congratulate me for having to research this stuff, man.

This was ugly. You know something, I have to say, we talk a lot on this program about, you know, Marxism, socialism, what that is, what godless atheism is. It's the kind of thing that, you know, people would say, you know, in an archway in the cultural elite circles about the Cold War, godless atheism. But the reality is that it's a reality. and I think now we're seeing some of it played out when people are really chanting death to America or burning Bibles or flags or something. You think, what is at the core of all of this?

What do they want? What is happening? Suddenly, we're forced to look at the roots of these things, so your book couldn't be timed better. Again, the title is The Devil and Carl Marx, your professor of Polly Sye at Grove City and the executive director of the Center for Vision and Values a Grove City think tank and a policy center.

But I've got to ask you, Paul, what led you specifically to this rather dramatic title and book? Well, so I did, in the past, I wrote God and Ronald Reagan, God, and George W. Bush. I even wrote God and Hillary Clinton here, which a lot of people don't believe me that I wrote that. But, I mean, she was a, she's a believing religious left person, right, United Methodist Church. So I've done these spiritual biographies in the past, and I've researched, read about the life of Karl Marx for years. We all know about the opiate of the masses statement and some of his other statements on religion. But I've also known about this really kind of dark, chilling side of Marx, where, among other things, Marx had this interest, this infatuation with the devil. He wrote poetry.

He wrote poems. He wrote plays about the devil. And some of this is known. I mean, you might know this. You probably do. Paul Johnson wrote a chapter in his book, intellectuals probably 30 years ago, where he talked about some of this with Marx.

Probably the best Marx biographer, a guy named Robert Payne, who did a bunch of biographies of Marx. There's no man of the right. He was a British literature professor, a man of the arts letters. He did Simon & Schuster biography of Marx, New York University Press biography of Marx. He had a chapter called The Demons in his 1968 biography of Marx.

So people have known about this, but I'll tell you, the last half dozen, ten recent Marx biographies, really big ones, even by people, frankly, mostly by people who are sympathetic to Marx, they avoid this like the plague. They don't talk about us. This is why it's a shocking thing to take. hear about, to talk about. I mean, it's a shocking subject generally. But when people are being apologists for Marxist theory or for, you know, I guess when you hear people talking about his ideas as though they might work, and then I recently saw something, I don't know if was PBS of the BBC did a short, you know, bioc documentary on him. And you never would have picked up anything like this.

I forgot that Paul Johnson had written about it. What a great book. Intellectuals is one of the best books I've ever read. But I read it so long ago that I forgot these details. So let's go into it because, look, when we talk about folks like Howard Zinn, he practically begins his book with not quite a dedication, but something like that to Lucifer. There is something here.

There's a reason we call it. Solensky. Marxist atheism. I'm sorry. Sololinsky. Yeah, I get them confused. And so, but the idea that Marx himself would in the 19th century have paid homage on any level to Satan, to the devil, is horrific.

It's newsworthy. And those of us who once knew it need to hear about it. So tell us, where did you first stumble on this? Yeah, by the way, so the first person to discover it was Franz Mering, who's a kind of a renowned German socialist, Marxist, from over 100 years ago, over a century. Well, about 1800s. And he first discovered this in Marx's writings, Eric. and he told Marx's daughter, he said, you do not want this stuff to see the light of day, right? You know, bury this stuff, put it aside.

And a scholar, a Soviet scholar from the Marx-Engels Institute in Russia, I walked through this in the book, he actually found this stuff in the 1920s and he published it. So it's interesting that the Soviets had the intellectual honesty to at least publish it, knowing that Marx's hagiographers in the West would avoid it. And one of the plays, just to give you an example, one of the poems, this is from, this is called the Pale Maiden, which Marx wrote in 1837. And I think this one, Eric, is kind of ironically almost autobiographical, given Marx's was Jewish. He was from a Jewish family.

he converted to Christianity. He left the faith in college and became just a kind of a vociferous, if not vicious, atheist after that. But Mark wrote, thus heaven I've forfeited, I know it full well. My soul, once true to God, is chosen for hell. My soul once true to God is chosen for hell. And this he wrote four years later, 1841, this is a poem called The Player. look now my blood dark sword shall stab unerringly within thy soul the hellish vapors rise and fill the brain till i go mad and my heart is utterly changed see the sword the prince of darkness sold it to me so the the question and i walked through this very carefully in the book paul johnson in his chapter focused on the marks quote where he he says of himself in the form of the devil in one

of his poems, I shall howl gigantic curses at mankind. He's destroying the world. I shall howl gigantic curses of mankind. And I say, look, it's hard to know if Marx is role-playing here, if he's advocating it, if he's playing the role of the devil in this part or this play or that play. But overall, what it presents is a really chilling spectacle from a man who, as his contemporary said his favorite play was work was gyrte's spouse mephistopheles the faustian bargain and people said Marx would walk around reciting and chanting the words of nephistophiles he had a special preference for the line from mephistopheles quote everything that exists deserves to perish everything that exists deserves to perish that's the kind of revolutionary he was he wanted to burn down the house well this is look this is so

interesting, Paul, and folks, I'm talking to Paul Kangor of Grove City. The book is The Devil and Carl Marx. I guess what's interesting to me is that you have some kind of contradictions going on here, right? In other words, the Soviets, communists claim to be atheists. But we find a kind of anger in many atheists and certainly in Marx and others that doesn't seem to be cool and irrational and merely anti-faith in God, but that seems to be demonically inspired, that seems to be satanic rather than merely atheistic. In other words, atheism seems to be often a cover for some kind of Satanism. And when you talk about wanting to destroy everything, obviously that spirit is alive in some parts of America today. What's strange to me is that, um,

If you want to help the masses and you want to help the people, surely you wouldn't want to burn everything down. We're going to follow up, folks, for the full hour with Paul Kangar. The book is The Devil and Carl Marx, don't go away. Hey, folks, are you concerned about memory loss for you or a loved one? Vivalour's founder prayed that God would show her the solution to memory loss because her mother had dementia. After many divine encounters combining faith and her background as a pharmacist, Susan Gibson created Vivalor memory support. Vivalore is a premium quality all natural supplement with five to 20 times more nutrients than any other memory supplement. It won awards and has three books independently written about it.

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Go to relieffactor.com, relieffactor.com, or call 800, 500, 8384. Relieffactor.com, 800, 500, 8384. I use it. It works. Check it out. Hey there, folks. I'm talking to Paul Tanger of Grove City College, the new book, an important book, The Devil, and Carl Marks. It's a horrific concept, I have to say that when we're actually talking about someone like Marks, who is celebrating the devil. It doesn't seem merely to be a poetic conceit.

Tell us more. First of all, did he write Descapital in 1848? I always forget. So he wrote the Communist Manifesto in 1848, and by the way, picking up with what you just said in the last segment, so it was like a religion. And in fact, Marx in a letter to, Ingle is in a letter to Mark. In reference to the Communist Manifesto,

he writes, give a little more thought to the communist confession of faith. That's what they called it. He called it a catechetical statement, the communist confession of faith. And Inglis writes to Marx, I think we should ditch the catechism form and just call it the manifesto. In other words, the communist manifesto. So, Eric, they almost called it a communist confession of faith, right? The catechetical form, this is religious language. Mikhail Gorbachev would say, who he said, our predecessor,

pursued a war on religion. They were like religious zealots trying to bring people to their cause. He said they treated their own writings, the manifesto, Das Kapital, like a set of canonical texts. Ronald Reagan spoke of Marxism, Leninism, that religion of theirs. I could read for you an amazing statement from Arthur Kessler, who wrote a beautiful darkness at noon about leaving the communist lifestyle. And this statement, he'll give you chills. He's like, one can't even even begin to describe the sense of inner peace that the convert feels, right? It's like it pours in from all parts of your body. Suddenly, all the mysteries and the jigsaw of the universe falls into place. He describes it like the most intense religious conversion.

You can't read Paul in the New Testament on the road to Damascus and read anything at the level of what Arthur Kessler is describing. So it's ironic. They are atheists. Yeah, but they really treated communism like a faith. And I was going to say that the, forgive me, the Nazis were similar. National socialism at its core. In other words, its most diehard devotees in the SS were specifically anti-God. They wouldn't allow them to attend church, which is extraordinary. In the SS, it eventually got to that point.

And then you have around the innermost circle. I always think it's either Gables or, I forget which one, who was pursuing an occultic kind of religion. Hitler really wasn't very interested in it. I think that's Himmler, right? I'm sorry, Himmler, that's right. And so it's egoing, it's horrific. It seems satanic and occultic.

It doesn't seem like political theory. It seems like a counterfeit face. Yeah, well, and you run into this. I mean, I hated doing this research for the book, but I had to go, I had to go to some Satanist websites. And they even said, no, we're atheists. And some of them said, we don't even believe in the figure of Satan, right? It's kind of a more general small s satanic, right? So because it doesn't make sense if you're an atheist to believe in the supernatural at all. And Sal Lewinsky, and also I quote, Mikhail Bekhani. Coonin as well. They praised Lucifer as being this eternal rebel, as Olinsky called him in that acknowledgement at the start of rules for radicals. The first rebel who rebelled and started won his own kingdom, I think is the phrase that Olinsky uses. And Bacunin, who's praising Satan of all things, and he's an atheist. By the way, Bacuna was a socialist anarchist, which even his friend Marx said to Ingalls, he said, I don't get it. How can you be a socialist and an anarchist? How can you support

big government and no government? I don't get it. But I do like his atheism. I appreciate that. But yeah, that's always been a kind of a paradox and an important part of it. Well, it's a chilling thing to think that sometimes people are playing with fire. They don't know they're playing with fire. You hear this all the time, and they think it's cool or it's edgy to say, things like that. I mean, look, Ozzy Osbourne is a classic example of it. He did it to sell records. I don't ever think that he had any clue that there was any reality to what he was playing with. But there are people, obviously, who flirt with this and then find themselves trapped, and it is, it's utterly horrific. Well, hey, can I give you an example of that right now with, there's a magazine very popular among the left called the Jacobin, right? But speaking of people who

were viciously atheists, the Jacobins in Revolutionary France lopped off the heads of 40,000 people between 1793 and 1794. They did the first war in religion. And Lenin even referred to the Jashavans as quote, glorious jacobin. And as I go through this with my students, I teach a Marxism course and I say, hey, there's a magazine called the Jacobin. And a student goes to his laptop and says, Professor Kengor, they have T-shirts, they have memes. Look at this. With a little with a little guillotine here. I said, that's not funny. That's not funny.

Now, here we are a couple of years after that, and people are putting guillotines out of the front street of Jeff Bezos's house. Right? You've got somebody, Anne Henderson has a piece in American Spectator on the guillotine and some Democrat candidates who are using that as a symbol right now. This isn't funny. This isn't cute. This isn't like, hey, guillotine, wink, wink.

No, this was used by vicious people who beheaded people. Well, let's clarify it also that, you know, when you're using something like the guillotine as your symbol, it stands in perfect contradistinction to the cross. The cross is similarly a means of execution. The difference is it is God sacrificing himself dying so that we don't have to die. The guillotine is used to kill others. It's used as a threat. And so the idea that people would flirt with this, I mean, look, people, a lot of times young people, they're trying to be edgy, they use skulls, they use certain imagery, they don't understand there's a deeper reality. My question is, do you suppose that Marx ever genuinely flirted with the occult? Or was it just in this kind of visionary way, writing poems and that sort of thing? Yeah, and by the way, how ironic is that the liberals will get very angry over a Confederate flag, but not.

not over a guillotine, right? And by the way, it comes from somebody who believe me, has no sympathy for the Confederate flag, all right? But yeah, let me just quote here, if you don't mind me reading just this two sentences. This is from Robert Payne. In his, yeah, this is, yeah, you're permitted to read from anything. It's a joy to have you, enjoy to listen. Go ahead. It's not me. Yeah. But this is Robert Payne, who wrote the 1968 biography. He wrote this. There were times when Marx seemed to be possessed by demons. There were times when Marx seemed to be possessed by demons. He had the devil's view of the world and the devil's malignity. Sometimes he seemed to know that he was accomplishing works of evil, quote

unquote. There was also a book by the late pastor Richard Wormbrand, who wrote Tortured for Christ, and he was actually tortured by communists for 14 years in remod. Romanian prisons. By the way, I quote a length in this book, scenes from the Patesti prison in Romania, where religious prisoners went. They were crucifying Christians. They were forcing priests to consecrate human feces and a host and force it into religious prisoners' mouths. They were doing black masses at the prison of Patesti. So some of the Marxist and communists were definitely fully into this diabolical, if not so... There's no question. I had the privilege years ago of meeting Pastor Wormbron, revering him before I met him and then having the honor to meet him. But I read his book Tortured for Christ, and there's another one whose title escapes me. But I remember reading that and thinking, this is satanic. In other words, this is not simply we don't want to talk about God. This is a way of being as blasphemous as possible.

And it seems, they seem to draw strength from blasphemy. And I think, unfortunately, you're seeing not very distant echoes of this in the vile cursing that comes from the Marxist Antifa mobs and the BLM mobs. It's constant vile cursing. And you kind of wonder, what is that? Is that a spirit? I think those of us who are people of faith understand, there can be a spirit behind something that helps. helps us see what is going on. But what you're describing in these communist prisons, it seems demonic, and it seems

specifically desirous of blaspheming the God of the Bible. And you can see that. You can see that up and down. When you read the section on the Patesti prison, Eric, you will be, I don't care how hard of a leftist you are, right? You read that, you will say, all right, okay, they're right. There's no denying. This is killing.

This was demonic, right? Look at this. You can even make a movie on this because you couldn't act out the scenes. They're so utterly profane. And Warbrain said that people were torturing him. One guy was yelling, I am the devil. I am the devil. And another said, I've lived all my life for this moment in order to express all the hatred in my heart.

Hold on one second. This is very important folks who are going to be right back talking to Paul Kangar. book, The Devil and Carl Marx. Folks, this is the Ericman Taxi Show. I'm talking to Paul Kanger has a brand new book out called The Devil and Carl Marks. What you are sharing, Paul, is horrific stuff. Let's go back to Marx. You know, we know that Marxism led to evil and to the murder of millions.

We know that. But let's talk about Marxism. and about what you discovered some more, because it is a startling thing. Most of us think of him as some kind of economist and a political theorist. You certainly wasn't that. No.

It was anything but an economist. But, yeah, so to clarify from the last segment, the, I don't say in the book that he was possessed. I don't know that, right? I mean, so I quote other people saying other things. You know, the phrase, the devil and Karl Marx, first of all, it's a play on the devil and Daniel Webster, titles like that. And plus I wrote, as I said,

other God and books and so forth. But, you know, but he wrote about the devil, right? So as to the question of whether or not he's possessed, I mean, you know, to borrow from Barack Obama, that's above my pay grade, right? But at the very least, it's chilling. And I know you, I know you

want to hit that, but let me just read from you because I grabbed this during the break. This is from the Prison of Peteschi. Okay, this is Alan Maraisen from his book, quote, this is in Romania. This is a communist story. This is referring to 20th century and this is referring to Pastor Wormbron.

Is that what we're talking about? That's right. This actually isn't Wormbron, but it was somebody else who was tortured there. Yeah. Quote, people, you won't believe it. Performances on religious subjects, black masses staged at Easter or Christmas, horrified the detainees. On such occasions, it was the theology students who suffered the most. They were dressed up as Christ, clothed and cassocks smeared with excrement.

They were made to take communion with urine and feces. And instead of the cross, a phallus was fashioned of soap, which all the others were made to kiss. Alongside them, hymns were sung with scabrous words in which the commonplaces were insults against Christ and the Virgin Mary. Sometimes the detainees would be stripped naked. Now, that's one of like 20 examples that I give like that that are just horrific. And when you hear that, right, people thinking, oh, come on, some, all right, Marx repressed religion. All right, you know, Ken Gore, metaxis. That's bad.

But, I mean, diabolical. That's diabolical. And there are people who actually suffered like that. And don't disrespect them by disregarding or shrugging. your shoulders and making a joke of it or acting as if it didn't exist. These people went through hell. Wormbron said the worst tortures in Dante's Inferno cannot compare it to tortures in communist prison camps for religious people.

Well, we have to, again, ask ourselves, and that's what we're doing by talking about it, why? I would argue that everything ultimately is spiritual. I would say that, you know, we're living in the human world, so there's no such thing as a person being themselves utterly demonic. We're all made in the image of God, but we can give ourselves over to one thing or the other. And it does seem that in history,

you have political philosophies coming out of an atheist view, which ends up being Marxism and various forms of socialism and the ascension of the state to be a kind of deity or the heads of state to be deities. And then you have American style ordered liberty, which is something else entirely, which is founded on the idea explicitly of a creator, of a divine order, to which we all must bow. it's fascinating to me that right now, as I say on the streets of America, we have things being played out that are not quite what you just described, but that seemed to be calculated to be as blasphemous as possible.

Right. And the goal, and a communist in particular, they were anti-Christ, right? But by the way, they were anti-Jewish, they were anti-Buddists, they were anti-Islam. Across the board, they were anti-religion. And Marx in his famous Opiate of the Masses essay, where he says religion is the opiate of the masses, the opium of the masses, it is the heart of heartless conditions, it is the soul of a soulless world. And he says there, Eric, and this is really quite profound. He says the criticism of religion is the beginning of all criticism.

The criticism of religion is the beginning of all criticism. And if you go through the Opiate of the Mass's essay, he uses the word criticism. 29 times. In fact, maybe the only other word that Marx used more than that was abolition, right? Abolition of the family, abolition of religion, abolition of morality. There's actually a line in the Communist Manifesto that says, abolition of the family, exclamation mark, even the most radical flare up with this infamous proposal of the communists.

Ian Engels wrote in the Communist Manifesto, quote, the entire theory of the communists may be summed up in the single sentence, abolition of private property. So it's all about, it's not just about redistributing wealth. It's what people don't get, right? Sharing wealth, taking from the rich to the poor. This is about abolition. This is about, as Marx told his friend Arnold Rouge in 1843, quote, the ruthless criticism of everything that exists. And the end of the manifesto, there's a crucial line everybody forgets. Everybody remembers workers of the world, unite and so forth. Ingles and Marx and English.

is right, Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement that goes against the existing and social, the existing social and political order of things. Now, think about that. So a modern communist would be more than happy to latch on to any revolutionary movement, right? Because communist support, as they said, every revolutionary movement. They're happy to latch onto that movement if it helps them take down, raise, and redefine the old order. Let's stop there. We'll be right back with Paul Kanger. I'm talking to play the part.

I'm talking to Paul Kanger of Grove City College, author of The Devil and Carl Mark's brand new book, unfortunately, very important and timely, unfortunately for the world, fortunate for us who can read it and understand what's going on. Paul, you just were talking about how there seems to me at the heart of Marxism, this kind of atheism that goes beyond atheism that seems to be satanic in its rage and its desire to tear down the existing order. You use the term abolition, which we think of as a good thing, but you mean to abolish and destroy what is.

It makes me think of another 19th century figure, Melville, who talks about Ahab in his rage wanting to strike through the mask to come through the sky and attack God. Because in a way, what these people are saying is that we want to be God or we want to be God. We want to get to utopia without the cross. And this is the way we think we're going to do it. We'll do it with the guillotine by killing others instead of dying ourselves or accepting the death of Jesus. So it really is a very lively, vivid kind of anti-religious religion. It is spiritual, is what I'm trying to say. Yes, in fact, Whitaker Chambers, who had been a communist, of course,

it was probably the most famous ex-communist in America in the 20th century. He said the communists repeat the first mistake made at the Garden of Eden, ye shall be as gods, right? Ye shall be as gods. really they make themselves their own gods. It's pure moral relativism. Ronald Reagan used to quote a Vladimir Lenin quote that said, for communists, the only morality that exists is that within themselves.

But they were, and so they would go after not just the Christian worldview, but the entire Judeo-Christian fabric. And Marx said, quote, the Israelite faith is repulsive to me, right? The Israelite faith is repulsive to me. And they, and he described, he said, the worldly God of the Jews is money. The worldly cult of the Jews is haggling, right? This is somebody who came from a family of rabbis, a family of rabbis. And so for him to speak in this awful, hateful way. I mean, poor Marx's ancestors just rolled over in their graves at what this guy did. But he understood, Ingalls understood too, that if you really wanted to fundamentally

transform the order, you had to start with that Judeo-Christian base route. You had to whack at that tree, at that route. Well, I mean, I do think that we're seeing clearly today that the West, which is, you know, Athens meets Jerusalem and gives us Christian European civilization, that is what's being attacked right now. It's an extraordinary thing. We've seen it veiled for some time. It kind of erupted a little bit, you know, around 1968. But once again, we're seeing that kind of thing.

In 1968, it seems to me they would not have been openly blasphemous. In other words, there was still the idea that we want to build something better, whereas today there seems to be, you know, as you're putting it, this kind of demonic desire to destroy, almost for the sake of destroying. I know in Faust, Mephistopheles, you know, he says, I'm a negating spirit. There's something to that. Well, I had a relative, we had a family get together a few weeks ago, and she said, I don't understand the statue thing.

So I know why they were angry about George Floyd. I agree with that. And a few weeks later, they were tearing down a statue of Columbus. What did Columbus have to do with George Floyd? And I understand why they don't like Confederate generals. But why Ulysses S. Grant? Didn't he defeat the Confederacy? And this was a time that I said,

and now Lincoln, and I just heard that they tore down statues of Frederick Douglas. Frederick Douglass. Wasn't he an abolitionist? Yeah, you know, you wonder, Eric, who's next? Harriet Tubman, right? Well, actually, somebody, I read today that somebody just tore down a statue of Benjamin Franklin. And I thought to myself, he was an abolitionist, you know, at the time of Wilberforce,

one of the first American people who spoke out against slavery, one of our top founders, so to speak. And yeah, this is something that goes far beyond, you know, the normal issues. But it seems to be coming out more and more in the open, Paul. In other words, I feel like the pretense now and again, you see straight to the core of it, that it's not about anything except destruction overturning the established order. It doesn't seek, as the American Revolution did, which is really more like a reformation, to create a better society, but it really first wants to destroy rather vindictively what has existed, as though it is evil and must be destroyed before proposing anything else.

And I'm not sure what is being proposed. And one of Ben Franklin's last gigs was to head up the Pennsylvania Society for the abolition of slavery, right? And I said to this relative said, I don't know what they, what's their goal? It looks like they just want to tear down, right? All up and down, California, the West Coast, statues of St. Hanipiro, Sarah, who founded all those missions in California, right? Literally, St. Louis and St. Louis, Missouri, Mount Rushmore.

Really, in a sense, what are they after? In a way, they can't tell you. They just want to tear down what's already there, right? That's the goal. Well, I mean, it really does seem to be transgression for transgressions sake. When you think about, I mean, almost no one has ever read the works of the Marquis de Sade, but if you ever dip into that, it is more demonic than anything anyone can imagine. Like people have no idea how vile, you know, fathers raping their children. And I mean,

it's so vile. And so there's something that kind of, you know, came out of the romantic movement. it obviously gets a little bit more complicated, but this almost deification of feelings, of rage, of lust, some of the stuff you're talking about, it's a very, very dark vision. And we have to be clear about that, about the roots of Marxism. And I want to say, before we go to the break here, Black Lives Matters website. They are a Marxist organization founded by people trained as, cultural Marxists, they say on their website that they're against the nuclear family. Most blacks in America are not against the nuclear family. So I don't think they are doing anything but trying to

amass their own power. We'll be right back with Paul Kangor. I'll say goodbye to all my sorrow and by tomorrow I'll be on my way. Final segment with Paul Kangor of Grove City College. The book is The Devil and Carl Marks. I hope you get a copy. Why, according to what you're saying, Marx, in his own way, ought to be canceled in the way that everybody's being canceled today.

Perhaps by the time this airs, you and I will be canceled. Yeah, well, the fact of the matter is, first of all, I don't support canceling anybody, right? I don't like the whole. cancel culture idea. But the left standards, if you want to go by the standards of the left, people will be stunned when they read Marx's racial statements in this book. It is awful. I can't even quote it for you because you'd have to delete it. His use of the N-word, his anti-Semitic statements, his Darwinian view of quote-unquote Negroes and apes. This is his language.

He referred to his son-in-law, Paul LeFargue, who was partly Cuban, as Nigrillo or the gorilla, because he had, as Marx and Ingalls deduced, either one-eighth or one-twelfth, N-word blood. I mean, look, the only way, just to say it, the only way you can make an argument against racism is from the Bible. The God of the Bible declares, we are all made in his image, we are all equal. If you don't believe that, you are going to be a social Darwinist, a Darwinist. You're going to believe that there's no such thing as human beings made in the image of God, and therefore you can have a pecking order, which obviously always leads to tribalism and racism. Yes. Well, and not only was he very much a racist, quite sexist.

It impregnated the family nursemaid, Lenthen, denied that the child was his. Ingalls accepted paternity for him. his children, Eric, two of Marx's daughters committed suicide and suicide packs with her husbands. I mean... Now, that sounds demonic. I mean, that's horrific. Two of his daughters committed suicide packs with their husbands. With their husbands. In fact, one of the husbands was Paul the Farg, who Marx called the gorilla, or nigrillo. The other husband backed out of the suicide pack after he fed her the poison. And Mark's, in some of his early poetry and plays,

writes about suicide. I'm telling you, you can't make this up. Chilling. It is chilling. It's absolutely horrifying. But as I say, I think your book comes at an important time, Paul King's,

unfortunately, yes. We need to understand what Marxism is. We need to understand that BLM is Marxist. It's hard to talk about these things because we don't want to believe these things, it's much easier to believe that it's a difference of opinion, but we're talking about some fundamental... Would you mind if I address that point on BLM as an organization?

I don't know how much time we have been. Go ahead. So Alicia Garza and Patrice Cullors, Patrice Cullors is on video saying, Alicia and I are trained Marxist organizers. That's their exact language. He said, we are superversed in ideological theories. That's our ideological framework.

So it's important to understand. Just like people watching need to know. you have Paul Kengor and Eric Mataxis, the Christians are coming from a Christian worldview. Right? The worldview matters. The worldview matters. I don't know, BLM obviously is not a Marxist organization like Communist Party USA. Right?

Like the Trotskyist Socialist Workers Party is. But when you have the two founders saying, oh, you want to know where we're coming from? We're trained Marxist organizing. That's our ideological. Well, look, if you read their website, their worldview is fundamentally anti-biblical anti-Christian. There's no getting around it and their view of culture. It's not just anti-West. It's anti-Christian. It's anti-American founding. We're out of time. Paul Kanger, I'm just so grateful for your time in writing this book and in coming on this program. Folks, it's The Devil

and Carl Mark's very important. Paul, thank you. Thank you, Eric. Really appreciate it. God bless. Thanks for all you do.