The Eric Metaxas Show - Paul Tingsley

Episode Date: February 15, 2024

Paul Tingsley joins to discuss "Arts Empowering Life"

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m. Investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Ladies and gentlemen, are you ready to listen to a man of grace, sophistication, integrity, and whimsy? Well, so are we. But until such a man shows up, please welcome Eric Mattaxas. Hey there, folks. Welcome to Hour 2. In Hour 1, we just finished talking to my friend Joni Lamb about her new book, which is actually not out yet, but it will be out very soon. In a moment, we're going to be talking about beauty, faith, truth, the arts, music, beauty, truth, faith, the arts, all that good stuff with Paul Tingley. But before that, Chris Heimes, I want to just go back to, some of what we were saying at the beginning of hour one. I was talking about the bizarre feeling.

I mean, it really was almost like, you know, it feels like made up, but it was true. I was sitting there on a plane flying home from the West Coast watching the movie Hacksaw Ridge. And I want to say to people, you know, it's a little bit tough to watch. It's not for kids because it's, you know, there's some violence.

It's World War II. but it's a beautiful movie. It came out in 2016. I thought it was much more recent than that. It's amazing to me to think that it's suddenly, what, eight years ago it came out? But it's a very powerful film. I recommend it highly. It's very pro-faith. I mean, it's like Chariots of Fire. It's somebody who will not do something because of his faith. Very powerful. Very powerful. And I don't know how it did at the box office, but it's just one of those films that I think, If you're looking for a good film to watch, Haxar Ridge, man, it's a great one. But I was watching it, as I said before, while everybody else on the plane is watching the Super Bowl.

And it was just a bizarre thing to me. It's not like I'm condemning everybody who's watching the Super Bowl, but it was a really dramatic contrast to be watching young men dying for their country, fighting against, you know, let's face it, Japan, and Germany were profoundly racist at the time. In other words, we forget that Hirohito and the cult of the emperor, they were totally racist in the same way that the Nazis were racist. And they were, you know, our young men who died some very brutally in that,

we forget about that. And I think that that's part of what has happened to us as a country is we've forgotten. I mean, I wrote in my book, if you can keep it about, Nathan Hale, this young man who sacrificed his life for his country. We used to do a better job, I think, of revering these patriots who died and understanding that we're all in this battle together, that we're fighting against tyranny around the world, we're fighting for freedom in this world, and I just feel like we've lost sight of that. So watching the film made that very real to me, that I owe a debt to those who have died for

this country. But we all owe a debt. We ought to be thinking about that. And as I see everybody kind of getting caught up in, you know, Super Bowl stuff, I thought in many ways we've become a very entertainment focused, shallow country. And it just, it made me think about the effort and the money that goes into sports and entertainment. And, you know, what are the values that are coming out of it? So, of course, some of that was good. I know that there's some players on the teams, you know, who were very outspoken about their faith. But it just was such a dramatic contrast to me that it was bizarre. So I said, I have to mention it on the air.

It kind of reminds me of the Twilight's on episode with William Shatner, where he looks out on the wing. And I imagine you looking out on the wing and seeing like Beyonce or one of the Kelse brothers, you know, ripping up the wing or something. Ripping up the wing, exactly. I was William Shatner. Yeah. Okay. Well, the other thing I'll say, that was a joke, sorry. It's a good, but it was a good joke.

I listened to you and I nod. He's making good points and what's the least helpful joke I could make at the end of this. That's sort of my challenge to myself. I remember my mom, who's now 89, when she saw that Twilight Zone episode, she told me the next morning. I was a kid, and she told me with the story and the guy on the wing, the monster on the wing. It's so scary. That's a good Twilight Zone episode. But I will say just the general lens of grievance and criticism that most people look at the country through,

or that's sort of the Kool-Aid is to just be, you know, have grievance and everybody has trauma. and everybody's unfair or everything's unfair, you know, it's sort of like those guys didn't complain. Yeah, and if you haven't lost a life or a limb, why don't you shut up? Think about that, because people have lost their lives and their limbs for us so that we can yammer on about our grievances. Yeah, and I think I need to say it here, there's no such thing as a black national anthem. There is a national anthem, and then there's other songs. but we're just living in crazy times, and I want to be, I guess I just want to mention that,

you know, that we ought to, I mean, the Bible says what sort of things are noble, what sort of things are good, what sort of thing, that's one of those beautiful things that what we take in, what we look at, shapes who we are inside, and we have to think about the entertainment that we take in, and it's why I mentioned, you know, when I see a film that I think is really powerful like Hacksaw Ridge. I think, you know, that's, it might make a better person of you when you experience a film like that. Actually, thinking, speaking of things to watch, I mentioned that we were in Seattle. We did a Socrates event in Seattle. And then we did two Socrates in the studio events in Seattle with two members of the Discovery Institute. Very fascinating conversations.

Folks, if you're not signed up for Socrates Plus jump, it is really great conversations. And then I flew back here, as I just said. And then yesterday we did two more Socrates in the studio sessions, one with Michael Wilkerson about his book, Why America Matters. I hope that's the title. I think it is, yeah. Why America Matters. It's an amazing book. It is an amazing book.

why America matters. And then I spoke to Roger Kimball of the New Criterion, which is a magazine that does art criticism, but just such an absolutely fascinating conversation. And I want to say to people a lot of why we do Socrates in the city is to give you something, let's say, intellectually nourishing, something worthwhile, that if you listen to these conversations, if you pause and say, you know, I want to, once a week, I want to take in something that's going to, you know, call me a little higher, call me, that's going to challenge me to think about the deeper questions. That's a whole idea behind Socrates in the city. Socrates said the unexamined life is not worth living. Let's examine the big questions, truth, beauty. And so the conversations that we just had, if you are a member of Socrates Plus, you can watch them. And we just put.

put up the conversation that I had with Stephen Collins. That should be on YouTube. You don't have to be a member of Socrates Plus, but Stephen Collins is the archaeologist who discovered biblical Sodom. That's just a made up story. Oh, man, it sounds made up. That's what's so beautiful about it.

It's like, it can't be. It can't be. And then when you hear the details, you think, this is insane. The whole world should know about this. So I put it in my book, is atheism dead. But my conversation with him in Fort Worth

from some months ago, that is now up if you want to watch it. one of the best we've ever done without any doubt. We've got an event coming up February 29th with James O'Keefe here in New York City. If you can get to New York for that, do it. If you can't get to where we are doing these events, if you're a member of Socrates Plus, we live stream them.

So wherever you are in the world, you can watch them live. We just did it the other day with John West at the Rainier Club in Seattle. It's kind of fun to watch it as it's unfolding before we edit out all the bad words. Yeah, in fact, yesterday you guys were recording Socrates in the studio, and I was there while it was live, and I thought I could just, you know, take the shirt off and write, you know, like go, I don't know, Chiefs.

I could be like a Super Bowl. You could run behind me and Roger Kimball. You could wreck it, but everybody live streaming would be, I saw that. Yeah, the Socrates in the studio, Streaker. I saw the streaker behind David Niven. I saw it. I saw it. Honestly, I should have done a dress like,

that would have been fun. Yeah, you could have thrown a smoke bomb. You could have released mice, white mice. You could have done anything, but you didn't. Thank you very much. Okay, I want to mention before we go to our guest, Paul Tingsley, letter to the American Church. Folks, crazy things are happening.

I'm going to give you more and more updates, but we have many churches signing up for free screenings around the country. If your church is not interested in a free screening, I want to know why you're interested in that church. A free screening. Now, most people are going to the website letter to the American Church and to pay, whatever it is, $499 or $99 to watch it. I hope you'll watch it. It's amazing.

But there are free screenings all around the country. If you go to the website, letter to the American Church.com, you can see where all the free screenings are happening. I'm doing a number of appearances at those free screenings. We're out of time. We'll be right back. For 10 years, Patriot Mobile has been America's only Christian conservative wireless provider. And when I say only, trust me, they're the only one. Glenn and the team have been great support.

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You're going to love this free new tool they've added. LegacyPMinvestments.com. Legacy pm investments.com. Check it out. I don't know where we've been. Could you tell me where we are again? Welcome back, folks. As promised, we are now going to talk about beauty, faith, and truth.

I like to talk about beauty, faith, and truth. Sometimes I like to talk about just faith, just beauty, just truth, but sometimes I like to mix it up. I have as my guest right now, Paul Tingsley, who is the program coordinator for something called Arts Empowering Life. Paul, welcome the program. Thanks so much for having me, Eric. What a great day to be here with you. Well, you are in Brewster, Massachusetts, which makes me. Many people know is in Massachusetts.

Other people know that it's on the Cape in Massachusetts. You are part of the community of Jesus. I've had interactions with people from the community of Jesus on the Cape over many years right now. I don't know. I'm trying to think back. David Manuel, many people that I have known and met. Talk a little bit about the community of Jesus on the Cape

before we leap into the larger conversation because it's just fascinating. How many years have you guys been there? The community was established in 1970, but it started before that. In the late 60s, two women had a very, very charismatic ministry, K. Anderson and Judy Sorensen, and their family started the first community. My family moved, I moved to the community in 1973, actually. So I've been on Cape Cod for an awful long time. And music was always one of the primary ministries or outreaches of the community.

And that has only grown over the years. Well, so, man, 73, you were just a kid. So here you are now. It is, to me, the connection between, you know, faith and the arts and all these things, It's so central, and yet, I mean, the way you come to it, I mean, your background, I was, you know, I was going to read some of the highlights of who you are and what you've done. And I wouldn't even know where to start. So do me a favor and give us some of the highlights because there is, you have just been as an instrumental performer. Again, I don't know.

I hardly know where to start. No, I've come around it a very, very roundabout way. but it really started at home at the community. And probably the beginning always was music, and faith is a central portion of that. You're saying something, and all music has to say something. We started with a small local community band,

and it was just formed for the founding of the community. But as word grew, we did a town parade. Then we went to Washington, D.C. And we marched in the Washington for Jesus March. And then we got invited back to represent Massachusetts in the Fourth of July parade. And we were awarded the Spirit of America Award, which said this is the band that best represents the ideals of America,

which is such a great thing, because America was formed on faith, beauty and truth. So that sort of was my start as a trumpet player. So you're not afraid to connect. I mean, this is one of the things. It's like, you know, you're right there within a stone's throw of Plymouth.

And that history is there. There's a tremendous Christian history and American history bound up together. And David Manuel, of course, along with Peter Marshall, wrote, The Light and the Glory. a number of books actually, talking about the Christian roots of America.

But you're living there. And so I guess you're saying that in the 70s, you were part of this Spirit of America band that literally traveled around the world. Yes, as a 14-year-old boy, I went to Washington, D.C. and marched with the band. I was terrible, I'm sure. But we played with spirit.

And we marched down in very public places, you know, talking. And it's sort of a subtle thing. thing, Eric, you don't play in a marching band as you're trying to convert people, but if you're dedicated to being as truthful as possible in your performance, as authentic as possible in your performance, that says something, that communicates something. The band uniforms were very military style. They had a cross on them. It was a subtle cross, but that was a subtle cross, but that was always part of the band uniform.

You're bringing the cross. You are bringing Jesus, if you will, to the streets, but you're not saying that. You say that in your attention to detail, in your attention to be as authentic to the music at hand as possible. And that sort of just was how I started. And, you know, 1979 was a long time. time ago. Yeah, it was, but I can remember it. Vividly. You wouldn't believe this, but Paul Tingley,

I, Eric Metaxis, was in a marching band playing trumpet in 1979. I was the Danbury High School, Danbury, Connecticut, where I attended, I was on the marching band, in the marching band. And I have to say, it was one of the most fun things I've ever done. And, you know, You know, we had marching band uniforms and the whole thing, and we marched in formation. And it was really, it was just an extraordinary thing. And I think we went down to Disneyland before they went woke, 40 plus years before they went woke and satanic. We were down in Disneyland and Orlando in the marching band. There's just something really fun and beautiful about that.

But we're talking about music in general and the arts in general and how it relates to faith. So I know that the organization that, um, the organization that, you know, you coordinate called Arts Empowering Life, that you've begun a lecture series. Tell us a little bit about that. Yeah. We, you know, after 35 years of Arts Empowering Life became official in the late 80s. And just this last year, we built a new performing arts center in Brewster. And the hope is that this center will be a hub for people of all, all, all,

all ages to come. And we have a monthly person that comes out and does a talk. I was fortunate I was able to give the first lecture in the building, and I talked about the use of the trumpet through the Bible, was able to talk about the shofar and the different uses that the trumpet was used. But the shofar does not have a spit valve. It does not. That's the problem with the shofar.

There's no spit valve. What do you do with all that spit? It's a real conundrum. It's a real conundrum. So you have a monthly lecture. And again, this is in Brewster, Massachusetts, at the base of the Cape, named after William Brewster. But the history of where you live really is extraordinary.

It's very compelling. I mean, I visited Plymouth Plantation. Of course, I've written about the Pilgrims and about Squanto. But so the website for arts empowering life is artsempoweringlife.org. Is that right? Yes. And what will people find there? Are there videotapes of these lectures on the arts and faith?

Yes, you can find it. And there's also another website, Eric. It's the Performing Arts Center, cape cod.org.org.org. And if you go to that one and go to events, You can see all the upcoming events, but you can also see the previous ones. Just this last Saturday, a couple days ago, we had Susan Rogers, the sound engineer. She came into to talk about what the music you listen to says about you, sort of a neuroscientist talking about how we all respond certain ways to different music.

And that was just a fascinating lecture. Sam Adler, I don't know if you heard about that one. He gave a talk about building bridges with music. And he was a fascinating talk. And what's that website? That is the Performing Arts Center, Cape Cod.org. Performing Arts Center Cape Cod. If people can type all those letters, Performing Arts Center Cape Cod.

Cape Cod. Well, the link between faith and the art, is something that, you know, a lot of times people lose sight of it, but it is kind of central. The idea of beauty, you know, what does that come from? It's God. It's pointing us to God. Everything is supposed to point us to the Lord. And sometimes we forget that music and the arts are part of how God wants us to speak to each other about him.

And it is, what, what, how did you find your story? becoming the program coordinator of arts empowering life because it's been a long journey for you you've been involved in so many parts that you I mean you're a singer uh you've been part of uh these concerts um I mean all over the place I think we're going to run out of time here hang on folks before we go to the break I just want to give you the website again arts empowering life org, arts, empoweringlife.org. And before we come back, let me remind you also of the film that we've just put out. You can go to letter to the American church.com.

Letter to the American church.com. Please do go to letter to the American church.com. I'll share more with you about that later on. Letter to the American church. From small family farms to your dining table, Moink gives you access to the freshest, sustainably sourced meat and fish, all while supporting American family farms. You can help save the family farm and get access to the highest quality meat on earth. When you join the Moink movement today, I am part of the Moinck movement.

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tried it and have ordered more on one of them. Go to Relieffactor.com or call 800 for Relief to find out about this offer. Feel the difference. Welcome back. We're talking about faith in the arts, beauty, faith, truth, all that good stuff. And I'm having a fun time talking to my guest, Paul Tingsley, who comes to us from Cape Cod. I think. you may be our first guest coming to us from Cape Cod, Paul Tingsley, from Brewster, Massachusetts. I want to talk to you more about some of these lectures that you're bringing in people who are giving lectures on faith and the arts, music. You just mentioned a couple of them. And by the way, where can people find these? What's the website? Is it artsempoweringlife.org? Is that the website for that?

That one works. Yeah. That's best. That's perfect. Arts empowering life. Artsempoweringlife.org. Some of these lectures, you just mentioned a couple of them. So tell us about them. Yeah. And you can find all the previous ones. I thought maybe people would be fascinating by this wonderful Jewish-American composer, Samuel Adler. And he just did a talk. It's called Building Bridges with Music.

And Sam's story was a fascinating one. He was born in Mannheim 10 years before beginning of World War II. And he actually escaped. He was born in 28. So it was five years before 33 and Hitler came. And his whole story of how he was saved literally in 1939, he and his father went up in their synagogue. They were trying to save some scrolls. The Nazis saw them up there and they said, go get them.

And at that very moment, all of the, a bookcase fell down that blocked the staircase and they escaped. And they got to America in 1939. And his remarkable story of how he was influenced by Aaron Copeland, Randall Thompson, Paul Hindemith, some of the great, great 20th century, you know, American. composers. When did he give him the lecture? When did he give the lecture? He just gave it in January.

At age 95? Age 95. A 95-year-old lecturer? That's extraordinary. And the great thing is, Eric, everybody was so excited about that we've signed on to do three more with him. Well, here's another interesting fact, and you have to watch the lecture to see it. But after the war, he was in America, he was a musician. He went back to Europe as a German, and he founded a traveling orchestra.

And his primary cause was to heal and reconcile. So he was a Jewish German who lost family members, yet he went back, formed an orchestra, played all over Europe. And I just think it's an extraordinary musical legacy that Sam Adler has to share with so many people. Well, it's hard to believe that somebody who was born in 1928 and experienced Hitler's Germany as a Jew would have lived until now and is sharing these stories now. I mean, that is absolutely extraordinary and how amazing that you got him to speak. And so I guess you said people can find that lecture at artsempoweringlife.org. But that is amazing to have somebody with the vigor at age 95 to be able to tell the story of what happened when he was a very, very young man. Just amazing.

You mentioned something, was it Shostakovich? You just mentioned. Yes, we have another. lecture, it's going to be by the New York Times bestselling author, M.T. Anderson. And he's going to talk about the Shostakovich Leningrad Symphony that Shostakovich wrote. And that was performed during the siege of Leningrad. And he did extraordinary research of how the microfilm was, you know, snuck across the Alps. And it came over here for us to see in America. And that symphony, and it shows the power of how music really saved the people.

Well, if you don't mind, give us, not everybody who listens to my program is familiar with the details of the siege of Leningrad. So if you can kind of tee that up so that people can appreciate what we're talking about, because this is amazing stuff. Yeah, it was the winter. And I'm sorry, I'm not a historian. I read this book and was fascinating. And I can't remember what winter it was. but Hitler and company were coming on. They chose, of course, unsuccessfully to try to attack Russia in the winter.

Sort of history would have told them that that was a bad idea. But I guess we're grateful that he did that. But the people inside Leningrad were starving. And Shostakovich wrote this symphony, and he also got together musicians to come and play it. And if you were a musician that made the cut, you could have, you double the rations. Maybe you had like three pieces of rice instead of one and a half. And these people who were starving still got together and said it's important for the fabric of our city to make music and to keep playing as a family.

And I believe that that piece of music really did save the morale of that city in World War II. I don't have a staff to find out when the siege of Leningrad was, but we know that it was in the 40s and that it was, I mean, a military. A siege. There's 1940, 41. Okay, so 41. I mean, the idea that they are besieged, that the Nazis are trying to take over. the middle of this, Shostakovich writes this beautiful piece of music and they perform it. We'll be right back. We're talking to my guest, Paul Tingsley. Don't go away.

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800-9783057. Use promo code Eric. It was 1941. The Nazis had moved into Russia. Leningrad was besieged by the Nazis. And during that time, as we're now learning, the great composer Shostakovich composed a symphony. Paul Tingley is my guest. Paul, was it a symphony?

I didn't. Yes, yes. So he is seventh symphony called the Leningrad Symphony. So he composed it during this time. And then marshaled the forces, not military, to have it performed while the citizens of Leningrad are under siege, not knowing their future, whether they will survive, obviously, running out of food, brutal, but they performed this music. You know, it's funny because we're living at a time where I think we've lost sight of this

kind of thing. It's the sort of thing you hear about in World War II, the power of music. There's something ennobling about it. It's not just music. There's something about it that's. speaks of God, speaks of the transcendent. In my own book, I wrote a book called Is Atheism Dead, and at the end of it, I talk about beauty and the kind of the witness of beauty.

What is it about something beautiful, whether it's music that somehow points to God, somehow points to something outside of our circumstances? And in my book, is Atheism Dead. I recount my father in 1943 was in Cephalonia. in the capital city of Argyzali, the Germans and the Italians had occupied the island. And so they're there. They're not quite besieged, but they are under occupation. And my father talks about how it's, I don't know, 11 o'clock or midnight. It's dark. They're all sitting there, these young people out in the square.

And they hear a lone trumpet playing, I think it's Tselli's serenade. if I remember it's in my book, but just they hear a trumpet playing this music. And everyone was transfixed by the notes, transfixed by the music and began to weep. And you think, why? Because the music, especially in the midst of that trial, points to something beyond the trial, points to something beyond the moment, points to God, points to a time where there is no war. I mean, it really is amazing the power of music and what you're sharing about Shostakovich and how that happened in Leningrad. I mean, it's interesting, though, because it does speak of another era in the sense that in the 40s, people in Europe, they were wise enough and knowledgeable enough in terms of music. that that kind of music would speak to them.

Today, it seems to me that we don't quite have that, at least not in the world that I live in in New York City, where people have a common language, which they would have in Leningrad in parts of Europe. And I know that's part of what you're trying to focus us on. Yeah, I think, Eric, that is what we try to do at Arts Empowering Life. Find what we do have in common. find what we what we can say.

You know, I'm moved by the picture of that trumpet player in 1943. I imagine he had something to say. And I think that's imperative to all of us. Don't just go play the notes. Like what are you trying to share? What is good and truthful? And if you don't have that something to say, put it away until you can You can discover that because it's a powerful, powerful tool music is.

My father, my father just passed away a month ago, but he would share this story with me. He said it was the most beautiful moment he could remember in his life. And I think it's the contrast between, you know, the darkness of being occupied, under occupation. And then somehow this music pointing, you know, past the ramparts of that occupation, so to speak, to another world. And I think, I'm glad I remember to say it, but they found out later that the trumpet player on a roof someplace was a German soldier. And I thought, boy, that says it all.

Here you have a German soldier being the voice of truth and beauty, trying to build a bridge, as you were saying earlier, himself. There are stories about these kinds of things in wars through the centuries, I think. And so I'm glad. Now, the mention of Shostakovich's Symphony No. 7, you said that's going to be talked about in an upcoming lecture? Yes, the author is going to be here on May 18. And it's going to be at 3.30 Eastern Standard Time live. If you're on Cape Cod, come.

It's a great time to be coming to Cape Cod and come see our new Performing Arts Center. Or we live stream it. You can always catch everything on a live stream. But author M.T. Anderson is going to be the speaker. And people can live stream it at artsempoweringlife.org. Yes. Yes. You know, Eric.

Poweringlife.org. Yeah. Do we have just a couple more minutes? Because we're talking about music and its powerful ability to speak, even in times of conflict and war. We had a lecturer that came out in October. His name is Andrew Schulman. And he is a musician, a guitarist. And he actually was in a medically induced coma, Eric, and all his vital signs were turning.

towards the worst. The doctors were giving him very, very little time to live and his wife begged the doctor, said, can we please put some music into his ears? He's just been there for

eight days. He's not showing any signs of revitalizing. And this was back in the days when they had those little iPads or iPod things. And they had the Bach St. Matthews.

Matthew Patchen, which was always a favorite song of Andrews, and they put it in his ear. And within 30 minutes, all his vital signs returned. And within 48 hours, he actually came back out of a corner. It's like music saved his life. I want to hear more about this final segment coming up. I'm talking to Paul Tingsley, the website, artsempoweringlife.org. Artsempoweringlife.org. Welcome back. We're talking about music, the arts, beauty, faith, truth, all that good stuff.

My guest is Paul Tingsley, who is the program coordinator of arts empowering life on Cape Cod. And you just shared something beautiful about really the power of music. I mean, what is it about music? To me, it points to the divine. There's just no way around it. It points to truth. It points to be. It points. It points to God. There's no way around it. Otherwise, what is it? It's nothing. We know it's not nothing. Somehow we know it's something. And again, I wrote about this in my own book as atheism dead. At the end of the book, what is it about the witness of beauty? Why does it point to God? Why do we know, even if we're not sure of the details, somehow we know it is speaking of God. We maybe don't know how, but we know if you have any sensitivity, any human, humanity, you can't help but respond. And here you are talking about somebody who is at death's door, who his wife says, can we put some music in his ears? And what was the music that they played?

The music was Bach's St. Matthew Passion. Wow. And they call it the St. Matthew Miracle, honestly. You can look it up on, you know, you can Google it. But Andrew Schulman, author of Waking the Spirit, was the name of his book. he literally showed how music brought him back to life. I mean, I think even anybody who's in, you know, struggles is like, I have to be, have my soul restored.

What are those things that I can go to? Can I play a piece of music that will bring me back? Can I, can I do one of the Psalms? I mean, the Psalm book is filled with laments and joys and all sorts of, of different wrestlings and set to music. They're a wonderful, wonderful thing. Now, is that lecture already available, or is that in the future that we're talking about? Yes, yes, that one's already up live on the website.

Artsempoweringlife.org. And that was Andrew Schulman recounting his experience of being in a coma. and being pulled out of the coma ostensibly by the music of Johann Sebastian Bach, St. Matthew's passion. Again, we always have to ask the question, what is it? We know it's something. We know. It's hard. But what amazes me is that a strict materialist atheist says, no, there's nothing.

It's just music. It's just vibrating air. It doesn't mean anything. And you think, well, okay, who's buying that? that. Very few people. In fact, a lot of atheists, and I think I write about that in my book, too, that they contradict themselves. They talk about the beauty of anything. What are you talking about? What is beauty if we're living in a material universe with no God and no meaning? And, you know, can you face that? And the fact is, no, most people cannot bear to face that. They know that

these things mean something, and they want to put it in a box, but you can't. It points to God. we've recounted a couple of examples of music pointing beyond itself, you know, to the author of beauty and truth. This is all important stuff. I want to thank you, Paul Tingsley, for being my guest, and I want to encourage people to check out artsempoweringlife.org. A number of the lectures that we've been discussing are already available, and then we have one coming up on May 18th. Is that the one with Samuel Adler? Sam Adler, actually, we're going to do another one of Sam's on March 2nd. That will be the, and there's going to be a whole series of his.

I don't have all the dates here. Well, it doesn't matter. People go to the website. Artsempoweringlife.org. I have been speaking with Paul Tingley. Paul Tingley, thank you so much. Thank you. It was wonderful being with you.