The Eric Metaxas Show - Peter Wood (continued)

Episode Date: December 10, 2021

Peter Wood continues his conversation with Eric about ideas found in several articles and books, including why America has galloped downhill.

to the Eric Mettaxas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey there, sports fans. It's Thursday. Yeah. Hour two. That can only mean one thing. Oh, I'm excited. It's time for Ask Mataxis.

Or is it Axe metaxes? I want to say ax metaxes because it just, that X sound, it's, it's, what's the word I'm looking for? It's, it'll come to me. Okay. It'll come to me. Okay, Albin, ask Metaxus questions. You've got the questions. I do.

I hope I've got some answers for you. But let's see what do you... Oh, before I... Anything, I want to remind you, folks, have you given to CSI? People are going like, no. Well, I'd like you to do that, folks. It's really important. Go to Metaxistalk.com or call the number 888-253-3522.

Come on. 888-253-352. Too exciting. Okay, questions. Okay, question number one. Opinions on the Kyle Rittenhouse trial. Well, this is really tough. I think most people who aren't insane understand that our culture and country is going insane. Now, the good news is that most people see that. And I want to be one of those voices to let you know, most of us see that. Most of us see that. Most of us that when ideology comes into trials, when it comes into who we prosecute, how we prosecute,

everybody should know that is as un-American as it gets. You might as well put a bullet in the head of Lady Liberty. It's game over. So the idea that these trials, that these issues have become, I guess, captive to ideology, that's against everything we believe in as a nation. So when people start saying, it's no different than the OJ trial. Like, you know, we had this kind of divided thing where we said black people seemed to be excited that he was.

And I thought to myself, in America, folks, it's one thing to acknowledge we have differences. But at the end of the day, we should care about blind justice. And so I don't care if you hate Kyle Rittenhouse or love Kyle Rittenhouse. all we needed to care about was what were the facts. And the fact that he was able to be exonerated tells us something really positive because I think if you do not have fair trials where you know that people are going to get a fair trial

and that the jury is going to be able to do their job, if you're in a jury and you're worried about the mob or about people, you better get off that jury or move to another country because we have no use for people who can't do their job, whether you're an elected official or whether you're on a jury in America. If you can't do your job, if you're worried about repercussions, get out. Like, we can't use you. So the idea that the jury did their job with all this pressure, I'm just, I thank God.

I think it's a hopeful thing. But I, yeah, that's probably already too much on that subject. Good question, though. Question number two, would you argue that anything sort of religious, for example, people who don't go to church but consider themselves Christians, are they on the non-athist side or are they only furthering atheistic doctrine? My answer is yes. Okay. I have no idea what that question means. Here's what I think.

I think sometimes people who are very serious about their faith sometimes get hung up on the idea that if you don't believe what they believe, you're kind of atheist or something. I really believe most people, certainly in America, maybe they're agnostics, maybe they're confused about theological issues, but it's very rare that anybody is genuinely an atheist. Like, it's just rare. And so sometimes arguing with atheists or arguing in your mind with people, it sort of gets silly. Most people acknowledge all kinds of things. They just don't know maybe how to put it together. But I do think it's important to say that by looking at it.

atheism. In my book, is atheism dead? I kind of do this. It does help clarify, do I believe something, don't I believe something, what have I bought into that really comes out of atheist doctrine, which is at this point disproven pretty dramatically. But anyway, so my answer is passed. Yeah, well, you covered some of that in the news and Max response about Christmas and how people, if this is the greatest story ever told, then why are you not saying, like, this is the greatest story ever told? I believe this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's and yes, I was on newsmex the other day and you can find it on social media. And again, folks, this is a good opportunity to say, I'm begging you. Please go to Eric Mataxis.com and sign up for our newsletter because there's a lot of stuff that we're sending out. Okay.

Okay. What is your favorite book of the ones that you've ever written? What is your favorite? I'm going to go with The Sound and the Fury by William Flock. Oh, I like that too. Isn't that great? I hate that book. That was you? I wrote about that book. my book, Fish Out of Water. I was making fun of Faulkner in my book, Fish Out of Water. Fish Out of Water is a spiritual memoir, which came out this year, which would make a terrific Christmas present. But in some ways, you know, books are like your kids. Like you love each one of them in a different way. And some of them you want to give away to the gypsies. That's just the way It is. No, seriously, like, you love all your books equally because you pour yourself into them. But I had fun writing the Luther book. Yeah.

I'm very proud of that book. And I had fun writing it because he's such a character. Yeah, he's a real character. So there's things and there's funny stuff in there that I like. My Wilberforce book, there's a lot of stuff in there. You know, every book, it depends on who you are and what you want to read. But I think that there are passages in a number of, of my books that they're funny and quirky and it gives me joy that I was able to write those things within the context of a more serious subject. Okay, next question. Are you a good skier? I think I'm a good skier. I don't think I'm a great skier, but I'm a decent skier. How's that?

I'm one of these people that, you know, I grew up in a working class family where skiing was for rich people, you know. So I didn't ski for the first time until I was like, I think, 20. or something like that. And I feel like I ski once or twice a year. And I really love it. But we just don't get to do it much because it's tough. But I would say I'm a decent scare.

But I'm not like when I see these people bombing down the double diamonds and stuff. I'm like, that's not for me. So thank you. Okay. How did you and your wife meet? We met at Times Square Church. Wow. We met at church.

A great place to meet a spouse by. the way. Yeah. And we, it was 1994. We were both excited about Jesus and going to church all the time. And there was a group of friends that we kind of connected. Actually, it was at a birthday party connected. It was a little group from Times Square Church. But Times Square Church, that's where I met Suzanne. Praise the Lord. That is terrific. Yeah. Now, do you need any writers or any help? Actually, I need money so that I could pay for help. There you go. Yeah.

We need tons of help. I probably never mentioned this, but we got knocked off of YouTube, huge financial hit. If you want to help us on this program, spend a ton of money at mypillow.com. Use the code Eric. That's right. Go to my store.com. Use the code Eric. Go to nutrometics.

30% off this month only. Use the code Eric. But yeah, I mean, we need a ton of help. There's so much, I mean, you know this, Albin. There's so much we want. want to do that we can't because we don't have the time and the bandwidth and whatever. So, but, but the, you know, getting a big budget, boy, would I love to. Yeah, big budget.

Wouldn't it be fun? Oh, it would be fun. It would be fun just to have more people doing more stuff. So the answer is, I don't know. Okay. Convention of States, possible? I am a big fan of the idea of the Convention of States. I'm not going to talk about it right now, but Convention of States, we've had folks on this

program talking about it. I'm all for it. It's a great idea. Okay. How long did it tell? take for you to write your last book? Well, I don't know which my last book is because I'm still alive in writing, so I don't really know. What pro-life organization was your wife involved with, and what's the best pro-life organization to support? It's not so much a pro-life organization. It is,

but there are these pregnancy care centers. There are these women's health centers that help women choose life. Suzanne was for 12 years the head of Avail. It's Avail, New York, A-V-A-I-L. The greatest thing Suzanne ever did was hire her replacement, who is doing such a great job that we can sit back and just watch. It is amazing. Avail's model, actually, you can now, because of COVID and Zoom and everything, people from all around the world are using Avail.

So go to Avail, A-V-A-I-L-N-Y-C.org. I think it is. They are the best. Hey there, folks. Have you ever looked for a business podcast? You're into business, but you also like to be entertained. So you're looking for a funny business podcast. Well, some of them try to be funny. They're just not funny, which is a problem. I think I have the answer for you. If you like business news and current events with the side of actual comedy, you want to listen to, I can't say this is a straight face. It's called IP Frequently, the host, Sir David and Brad. I.P. Frequently Solid Business Advice that Leans Right, conservative, comes with 80s music and current events. They're calling it the unicorn of business podcasts. Is that a good thing? If it's funny, it is a good thing. They're also calling it the holy grail of business podcasts. Subscribe to IP Frequently and stay up to date on their weekly stream of episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Go to IPfrequently.com.

That's IPfrequently.com. Hey, folks, I'm talking to Peter W. Wood, not to be confused with the other Peter Woods. And his book is Wrath, America Enraged. This is just fascinating stuff, Peter. You are, I mean, we can talk about what's going on right now, but I love the fact that you, as a genuine academic and thinker, have really looked at this history of, when did it become culturally acceptable to be angry?

Whenever people go to Freud, I mean, if you want to know, hey, when do the world start going to hell? Freud, basically, because what Freud says, right, I mean, he creates this whole model of the soul, even though he doesn't believe in the soul. We don't know what he believed, but he created this idea that, you know, utter self-expression is good.

That's not true. There's truth in it. But America and the West bought that lie and ran with it. And it led to the sexual revolution and every kind of agony and woe. There's no doubt about it. But just to look at the anger thing, this idea that, okay, so if you suppress something, we've all bought into this. That's what fascinates me.

We kind of buy into this. We talk about it. That, you know, don't let it out. People say, let it out. Let what out? Murder, rage? How much do I let out? When is it not good if I let it out?

If I start swinging and killing people, is that too far? And that's really what you're looking at. You're trying to look at this history. The scripture talks about meekness as like a horse, power bridled. So the power, the strength, the potential is there. What we do with it is the question. Do we let the horse run? How fast?

How do we do? That's really what we're talking about. And it's kind of like a, or you use a different metaphor, like a driver, you know, how, how, when do I touch the break? When do I, how do I do this? When do I downshift? We are now in a culture totally different than the culture of, let's say, 20 years ago, where anger in a way has been given vent, no pun intended. And there are some good things and then some bad things. But I guess part of what I'm trying to get at is that in your book, Rath, I mean,

America and rage, you're saying one way or the other, we are now in a different place, and if lots of people are feeling justified in their rage, to some extent we have to respond to that, and somehow rage or anger is part of the response. The older restraints have broken down, and it's impossible to have a cohesive society in which one side says emotional expression in any other. any form at any time is perfectly good, and the other side is still trying to find some formula of self-containment. In that situation, those who are simply contained becomes sheep to the slaughter, and I don't think that's a recipe for having a civilization that's worth protecting. Now,

I brought up Freud, but there's other pieces of this as well. We got enamored with European existentialism in this idea that authenticity matters more than any kind of willingness to find common ground with other people. As though there even is such a thing as authenticity. What does that even mean? I think there are a lot of assumptions there, but yes. So we had these incitements to letting down our guard. The old idea of a Gary Cooper, who would be the strong, silent type, gives way to an Alan Ginsberg who hurls, vitruperative, profanity.

I don't think anybody's ever compared Gary Cooper to Alan Ginsberg. I was expecting you to go to James Dean, maybe Brando, but you go to Alan Ginsberg. By the way, I hate his poetry in a good way. Look, just to get back to bring this to where we are today, when I read your article in American greatness, I was really pleased to see myself tracking really dramatically with your journey. In other words, I think that for me, and you know, tell me if I'm wrong, but I think that when I saw how vicious people were toward Trump or toward his supporters, it jinned up in me

a sense of justice and outrage at that injustice. I said to myself, look, even if you don't agree with him or you don't like him, Your response is not appropriate. And it is doing more damage when literally the day after the inauguration I was in D.C. And I saw the quote unquote women's march. It was preposterous. It was an anti-Trump march. It had less than zero to do with women.

And I thought to myself, these people aren't even willing to give him a chance. Some people like Dave Chappelle and others publicly said, we need to give him a chance. or whatever. But the anti-Trump maniacs really just, they were at war from day one. And I think it was that that made me see, I mean, even before the inauguration, it was just when he became the candidate in the GOP side. I said, I'm just astonished at the level of ugliness that is coming out. And I realize it's doing real harm. And it galvanized me. against it. In other words, I thought I never would have been as vocal

or pro-Trump or whatever it was, but I was just astonished that in the United States of America, entire institutions like the New York Times, they gave themselves over to thoughtless partisanship. And that's what I got from reading

your article, that you were tracking that. So... That's exactly right. In the years before Trump entered politics, I had singled him out as a figure that represented this new anger that I don't like. It was a flamboyant self-regarding anger. He was not a figure that I had much use for. And in the run-up to the 2016 election, I supported a whole string of candidates who fell by the wayside as Trump rose to

capture the nomination. I wasn't particularly happy that he got the nomination. I did vote for him because I was in that camp that thought Hillary was going to be a very bad president. I just love how understated you are. This is the difference, folks, between academics and radio talk show hosts. The level of corruption and wickedness in Hillary is so, it's just so dramatic, but the idea that you were able to phrase it as you just did. So, okay, you said, I think Hillary would be a bad idea, therefore I voted for Trump. didn't mean suddenly you were pleased with his own histrionics and his vulgarity in many ways,

but you had a choice. But there are many people that said, no, no, no, there's a third choice. Don't vote. Right, or vote for some third-party candidate. Well, I think that I wanted my vote to count in whatever minimal way a single vote counts, and it meant something to me to be support. So you obviously have no standards. You don't care.

That's what they'd say, right? Would David French or somebody say, you obviously have no standard? standards. You just, rather than be pure, you were willing to vote for Trump, even though he was not Jesus. Right. Well, I had friends who became never Trumpers, and I was sad to see that happen. I think we do have choices to make, and that was not one that's made a lot of sense to me to put oneself essentially in alliance with the kinds of people who were in an uproar over Trump's nomination. But just as you said, the demonstration after Trump's inauguration in D.C., I wasn't there, but I certainly paid close attention to it.

I saw what was happening to magazines and journals that I had regularly read and respected, and the fury that erupted on the left that carried over into the accusations that Trump was in collusion with Vladimir Putin. You're saying he wasn't? I'm saying he wasn't. Really? Fascinating. We went through this period where it was a no-holds-barred attempt to savage Trump. He sometimes stumbled into it himself, but the effect of this was that we were seeing an erasure of anything that looked like the loyal opposition.

Instead, we were getting an opposition that regarded itself as entitled to do absolutely anything to, bring down the person it opposed. Well, I think it's a terrible place for the country to be, and I don't want to imitate it in saying that we should do absolutely anything to unseat that poor pathetic wretch who's in the White House now. Right. So you're coming out against not killing Biden? I want to be very clear, correct? Right. Okay. I'm absolutely dead set against... I want to be very clear, folks. We're dead set against murdering the current pseudo-president, whatever, okay, Okay. I mean, can you imagine we even have to get to a point where you have to say things like that? I mean, but that's where we are at this point. It's madness.

You're joking about it, but it is this way in which we, if we don't make it utterly clear, that we are not in favor of mayhem and murder. We were accused of being in favor of mayhem and murder. Okay, let me be very public that I agree with the idea of the assassination of Adolf Hitler. I just want to be very clear. Even though I'm a Christian, I believe that that was not murder, but he needed killing.

We'll be right back talking to Peter Wood. The book is wrath, America, and raged. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Biden administration has caused a financial crisis and they have no clue how to fix it. Oil prices have skyrocketed. And when oil prices go up, the cost of transportation and shipping spikes,

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Legacy precious metals is the company I trust for investing in gold. They can help you roll your retirement account into a gold-backed IRA where you still own the physical gold. They can also ship gold and precious metal safely and securely to your house. Call Legacy at 866-528-1903 or visit them online at legacy p.m. Investments dot com. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Peter W. Wood. The book is wrath, America, enraged. So, Peter, we're talking about our response to what happened. I mean, look, I have many friends on the left who think Trump is evil and so on and so forth. What I find interesting, this is perhaps just me, but I love my ideological enemies. I'm happy to be friends with people with whom I

disagree on things, but what I have noticed, and I do think this is dispositive, this is interesting, is that the people mostly who hate Trump have decided they cannot be friends with someone like me, though I would happily be friends with them, even though we totally disagree on that, it strikes me, it's a little bit like Solomon and the baby. If you're trying to figure out, so who, who I, there's something worrisome to me about that, about the scorched earth policy on the left. It's a kind of madness. Nothing seems to wake them up. I mean, the idea that the Russian collusion is a joke that we now all know is a joke, that doesn't seem to have woken some of them up, or maybe they're waking up and I just don't know it yet. But it's, I guess that's my long-winded way of saying. It's,

it's very crazy out there, the divide and where people have gone with this anger on the left. Well, I think part of that is people who lead their lives cocooned within the world of leftist media. I certainly see it around me that it's quite possible to encounter people who have never heard that, say, the Hunter Biden laptop was a real thing and not just a Russian plant. Even when it seeps into, say, the Washington Post that, oh, we were wrong about that, sorry, it doesn't seep into the general public mind. There is this thing called the public mind, which is informed by mass media more than anything else, but also by the kinds of people that you are willing to have conversations with.

if you're confronted by people who disagree with your view and are willing to put some facts on the table or to put a proposition up to the point where you can consider whether it's true or not based on actual evidence, then we have a conversation. Without that, we are left with this, well, I believe what I believe, and you should shut up. Well, it's interesting because, you know, we're talking about Marxism. That's, I mean, the, the further we get into this, the clearer the divisions are. And on the one side, I see American-style self-government inevitably linked to God and morality. However, that will be not in some kind of fascist way. Religion is free.

And then on the other side, you have a kind of unbridled Marxism, cultural Marxism. It does not share the most basic values. And so the division is different from the previous divisions because in the previous divisions, the folks who voted for FDR and the folks who didn't agreed on most fundamentals. That's out the window. Actual cultural Marxism, which says there is no God, there's only power, whether they can explicate that or can't, they're living that out. So that's to me why everything is different now, and we have to respond to this new situation.

If you're talking to someone who believes that, say, the First Amendment is obsolete, it's very difficult to find common ground at all. Where is it that we can agree to disagree about anything when your only standard is some notion of social justice that changes every five minutes? So there's no standard at all. Well, again, I think I remember my old writing professor, the great writer, John Hersey, a classic old school, old style liberal at Yale in the early 80s talking about why words are important because when words and language break down, it leads to violence.

I remember him saying that, thinking, you know, that's a very nice idea, but what in the world is he talking about? Well, now I see exactly what he's talking about. old-style liberals of the John Hersey ilk. They were reasonable. They may have disagreed with me or you on things, but there was a consensus of how we proceed with our differences. That's out the window, and I would argue that if you're just looking for clues, trying to read the tea leaves, it does seem to me that the people most enamored of throwing out those rules,

of civility, strangely, are the Marxists, are on the left. That's to me a big clue where I want to be. Well, there are Marxists and there are Marxists. The Marxists who say that's what they are, and there's others more worrisome to me who've absorbed it and don't even realize what they've absorbed. Well, sure. And that seems to me to account for most of that, perhaps 20 to 30 percent of the American public who thinks that things are going along. just right now. That's a worrisome thing because without some degree of self-realization that you're tying yourself to a doctrine that calls for the ultimately the elimination, the annihilation of your enemies, and everybody is your enemy who doesn't agree with you,

is a position that calls for the dissolution of any social order that we would want to be part of. That, in turn, brings us to this discussion, which I'm not really happy about, but I recognize that it's there. I said, are we in a civil war, or are we in a pre-civil war, are we in a position where we should think that the country would be better served by dissolving into its parts and letting the left have half of it and the right have the other half? I said, I don't want that discussion, but I realize that it's taking place. Yeah. The only problem is that the left doesn't have half. They probably have 24%, but since they have most of the media, they give the impression that they have half. We'll be right back.

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800, 500, 8384 relieffactor.com. I use it. It works. Hey there, folks. I'm talking to Peter Wood. The book is Wrath, America, Enraged. Who publishes this book? It's Encounter Books.

I think they're having a Christmas party this evening that I can't go to. I hate that. Encounterbooks, and this book is Wrath, America, and Rage. There is so much in here to talk about. We've just scratched the surface. It's really a joy to have you here in the studio, Peter, and I hope we can get you back soon just to continue the conversation because it's important.

But if we have to sum up or figure out where we are now, it seems to me that what happened to you, to some extent, happened to me, that we saw things break down so utterly that we realized, my goodness, I really do have to take a stand against what I see as cultural Marxism, the total dissolution of the basics. The basics being believing that the Constitution is a good thing, that America is a good thing, that patriotism is a good thing, that faith in the God of the Bible is a good thing, that telling the truth and not lying or good things. I mean, all of this stuff never really needed defending before. But it just seems like now that's kind of where we find ourselves.

It is where we find ourselves, and it's got many arrows in its quiver. We are dealing now with this idea that America is a racist place and always has been from 16, 19 onwards. We're dealing with the idea that as a nation we really shouldn't have borders. We should sort of dissolve ourselves into humanity at large. we're dealing with a sense that our military as an institution is better served by turning to questions of transgenderism than questions of military force. This is an acid that is dissolving all our basic institutions. It's in our churches as well, where nowadays it's getting relatively difficult to go to a church where you're not going to get a sermon declaring that the congregation is made, up of racist. Right. Well, here's the key. Don't go to those churches. It might be difficult not to go,

but don't go. It is kind of funny you bring that up because I wasn't planning to go there, but you're quite right. The greatest shock, the greatest horror, is when those of your own tribe, whether conservatives or evangelicals, somehow become the other capital O. And you think, when did this happen? I thought for sure we knew these things. things in common. But there are many churches that I would describe as evangelical. I mean, look, the mainline liberal Protestant, you know, they went to hell in 1930, basically. Let's face it. But the idea that CRT or BLM or whatever, you know, has infiltrated evangelical churches, that is really kind of the big shock to me.

It is to me too, but they're relatively easily identified. They usually have a BLM banner hanging out front. Right. It would be a swastika. It's just that it's not 1935, just so you understand. It's kind of like saying, yes, don't hurt us. We'll hang out. Whatever banner you want us to hang out, is it a rainbow flag, is it a BLM flag? Like, whatever you want, we just want you to leave us alone. That's called cowardice and it's not good. How has this happened? Well, I think it has happened

in that we have given into this ready access to emotional excitement. What BLM offered was this belief that you could lead a better life by embracing a comprehensive. comprehensive guilt or comprehensive anger. The two are opposite sides of the same coin. But both of them come out of our shift in American society

from being a place that was willing to stand back and consider issues on their merits. To some extent, we're always dealing with the tides of emotion as well. But we've gone wholly over to the practice of being driven by the shifting winds of. emotional engagement. Being engaged now counts for more than being right. And I think that's pretty much what's happened to a lot of the churches,

this readiness to say, yes, I'm part of the fight. I'm going to be doing my part to undo the horrible injustices of which we are all in. Right, I know, because this is such a racist country, except I believe we elected a black president. Did that ever happen? And actually he was reelected. Isn't that weird that all these racist white people would elect? I just, that's fascinating.

We'll talk about that another time. Let me ask you, because we're talking about churches, what's really dark about this, because I do think ultimately it's a spiritual war that we're in because this is so dark. But is that if somebody says to me, you're guilty, right? That's correct. We're guilty.

We're everything bad. We know that. That's we're sinners, right? but when you stop there and you say you'll always be guilty, that's the voice of Satan. The voice of God says, once you see that you're guilty, I'm here to redeem you. I love you. So the BLM Cultural Marxist CRT 1619, this agenda I see as spiritually very, very dark. It is a voice that wishes to curse rather than.

than to bless or to redeem. And it's just fascinating to me that people of faith would be theologically ignorant enough that they would go along with that. I agree, and it's a puzzle, but all I can do is say that we are part of the culture,

whether we think we are or not, and that means that we're susceptible to the follies that our culture is giving us at this point in our history, not the same follies that it may have been giving us 100 years ago, but the follies of 2021, which are ones in which we take a kind of pride and abasing ourselves. There's a form of spiritual pride that isn't usually on the agenda,

but I think it's a very real one. That is, if we see ourselves as heirs to some sort of blood guilt that passes down through the generations and that all we can do is be in a kind of perpetual sackcloth, then I think we can take a kind of pride in that. Look at me. I am more repentant than you are. Okay, see, that's interesting because there's a history in the church. There have been moments and movements within the church that have majored in that kind of madness. So it's not new, but there's nothing new under the sun.

Peter Wood is really just a great joy to be with you to talk to you. Congratulations on the book, Wrath, America, Enraged. I'd love to get you back here as soon as possible to continue the conversation to talk about your book 1620. But in the meantime, thank you. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you've got an opportunity to do something beautiful. You know this is true. I say this all the time, but you know it anyway.

You don't need me to tell you that we're going through crazy times. The question is, what can I do about it? To despair, to say there's nothing I can do about it, is to play. into the hands of, how shall I put it, Satan. So you don't want to, that's not a good option. You want to do something good. There are many things you can do. One thing I hope you will do.

One thing I hope you'll do today now is give to CSI. We don't care what you give. That's between you and God. But I want to be very blunt and say that when something is horrible as actual slavery exists, the idea that somebody says to you, hey, there's something good you can, do about it, that should excite you. There's a lot of horrible stuff going on in the world. There's very little we can do, except obviously pray, which is not insignificant. But God doesn't want us just to pray if we can do other things besides pray. He wants us to pray and do those other things.

One of them is to give to CSI Christian Solidarity International. They are on the ground in places like South Sudan, where they are freeing people, people no different than you or me, who have been enslaved, usually by radical Muslims who believe that enslaving Christians is okay. So we're here to say it's not okay, and we're going to put our money where our mouths are. So we're asking you today to go to metaxis talk.com. Everybody has to do this. If you listen to this program. I'm just here to tell you you have to do this. So you might as well just do it right now. Go to metaxis talk.com and you'll see the banner and you'll see the options for giving. Albin, let's give the phone number out because there are people that are going to call right now.

What is that? Yep. Yep. The phone number is 888-253-3522. 888-253-3522. This is the greatest thing, folks, to actually, have a slave freed in time for them to celebrate this Christmas with their family and their church at home. This is an incredible opportunity. I don't even, I mean, again, it sounds like we're making this up. Folks, if you go, I mean, if you're listening to this program, you've heard some of the details. But I just want to say this is real. We can do something about it. CSI comes to us because they know that we have an audience that understands this. The idea that people are being persecuted for their Christian faith to the extent of enslavement, to the extent of rape, to the extent of all this abuse, this is real.

But the good news is you can do something about it, and I know you will right now. I'm going to give the phone number out again. 888-253-3522. 888-253-3522. We need you to do this. 888-253-3-3522. Now, and keep in mind, it's only $250 to free a slave, but any portion that you can give goes towards freeing a person from slavery.

Okay, so let's not forget, we have an offer out there. I say this all the time because there are people who will take me up on it. Anyone who can give $2,500 that will free 10 human beings from slavery, We've talked about this. I have three hats given to me by Donald Trump and a pen given to me by Donald Trump. I will sign the hats to whomever. You talk about a Christmas gift to be able to give a Make America Great Again hat to somebody, sign to them. I will sign it with a pen given to me by Trump. It's a special Trump pen that he uses for this stuff. Folks, this is an amazing opportunity for a crazy Christmas gift. And guess what? You'll be freeing 10 human beings from slavery. A lot of people. you can afford to do that. It's more important than whatever you were going to get, a jet ski or something that was going to rot in the garage. I think you can do this. 888-253-3522, or go to metaxis talk.com. We need your help today. Thank you.