The Eric Metaxas Show - Rashawn Copeland

Episode Date: November 6, 2020

Rashawn Copeland has a wonderful message for our times, contained in his new book, "Start Where You Are: How God Meets You in Your Mess, Loves You through It, and Leads You Out of It."

I shouldn't tell you this, but Eric hired someone who sounds just like him to host today's show. But since I'm the announcer, they told me. So I am telling you, don't be fooled. The real Eric's in jail. And welcome. Hey there, folks. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. I'm Eric Mattaxas.

This is the show. I talk to fun people, interesting people, all kinds of people. And today, very excited. I actually have in my hand a book called Start Where You Are. That should be easy because you're already there. start where you are, how God meets you in your mess, loves you through it, and leads you out of it. Who's the author? Rashon Copeland, he's my guest.

Did you know that? Rashon, welcome to the program. Great to have you. Eric, thanks for having me. I'm so humble to be here and looking forward to our time together. And thank you for endorsing the book, man. Well, listen, the message of your book, it's why I have you on the program as well. I just think it's important.

And I think your story is important how you got there. And so for people who don't know who you are, now you are a minister of the gospel. You're doing all kinds of stuff. But I want to get to your story of how you got to where you are. Because when you say in the title of your book, Start Where You Are, You know, in your mess, you definitely were in a mess. So tell us, you know, your life story up to where God comes into it. Like where did you grow up? What was it like?

you know, talk to us about that. Good deal. So, Eric, I grew up in a military family. I was, you know, the kid that actually, you know, was a kid that loved, you know, one family. And, you know, our family was a pretty good family in the eyes of the world, the standards of the world. And it was just really good. And there was one thing that opened up my eyes, you know, as I got older a bit about at grade school, I had a teacher tell me to never pick up a pin and write again, and then, like, crushed me. And from that point, I was trying to figure out, like, what is the way I can, you know, sort of prove this teacher wrong?

So I saw acceptance the rest of my life, you know, trying to run after acceptance. And it really started on the hard iron, the football field. And as I began to play football, I was really good at it. And I was in that, you know, cycle again of proving myself to the world. and it was working. And one night I was humbled in a way that I'll never forget. I was hanging at this part. Actually, I want to get to this part of what you're just going to talk about.

But before we get there, when I just heard you say that you said you had a teet, first of all, you grew up in, you know, like a normal home, not a broken home, right? Your military family. So you didn't grow up in some kind of a mess. but you're telling me you had a teacher tell you to never pick up a pen again. I just got to go back to that. How in the world can a teacher use those words talking to someone they're supposed to be teaching? That is amazing how we can bless with our mouths and we can curse with our mouths.

That's like a curse. My goodness. What were the circumstances of that? It was so heavy because up to that point, I would always sort of encourage me. And people will spill encouragement and love and speak words that were edifying to me. But the moment I got into this sort of toxic, you know, environment, which I thought would be a prospering environment to grow and learn and a teacher who would nurture me. But she told me one day after finishing an assignment where I was writing about my idol, you know, at that time, Michael Jordan, she told me, this is weak writing. You should never pick up a pen and write again.

And it really hurt me, man. And from that point, I was like, I was disgusted in so much disbelief. And when people found out about it, rumors, you know, went around and I just identified myself with that for so long until I found out what I was really good at and where people would really praise me for, which was an athlete. I was a quote-unquote, I would call myself a good athlete back then. But now that I left back, I wasn't that good. You know what I'm saying? but needless to say, yeah. But I still, I'm still just fascinated with Sean that somebody could say something and how, you know,

even if the person didn't mean it that way, sometimes if we don't know who we are, and for me, that's my identity in God. I have to just say bluntly that God tells me, he loves me, he died for me, whatever. But if you don't know that and somebody says something harsh or critical, it can be devastating. And it sounds like this teacher's words for you were life changing in a negative way, devastating. Yeah.

And it lingered and it lingered and it lingered for the longest time. And that unresolved pain was just something that remained. And I hurt other people at the hands of that, you know? And I didn't realize that was the root of the issues because, you know, quote unquote, you hear the saying, hurt people, hurt people, heal people. I was definitely hurt on the inside. all resulted even to be being a bully to a certain extent times and time again in my life

at different points. So it was just terrible. It was bad. So you pivoted to sports. So you pivoted to sports and you said you found your identity as a football player, whatever. We're talking about high school right now? Yes, high school was that basically launching pat for me in sports. And so you were, you accepted.

excelled as an athlete on the football field. Yes, I began to get scholarships. Several across the country. I was looking at the University of Nebraska. And weeks away from signing the letter of intent, national letter of intent, I find myself out in the car hanging out with this young lady after a football game.

And this was that defining moment. I get a phone call from this guy that I didn't know much about, but it was the ex-girl, ex-boyfriend of the girl I was in the car with. And at this point, me being the prideful egotistical high school football player, future college football star in my head, I pridefully take her phone as the phone's ringing. And I answer it. And out of nowhere, you know, this guy comes on and says, yo, why are you with my girl?

Why are you with my girl? Come to find out he was looking at her MySpace and he's seen my face, you know, in her MySpace. And he knew who I was. I didn't know who he was, but the unwise thing that I did that night was let this guy know where I was. You know, and that was not wise. Ten minutes later, a van peels in, and this was where the Lord humbled me. You know, I needed it so much, but he, a van peeled in, five guys jump out of the car.

I'm not talking about burgers. Five guys jump out there walking towards us. I jump out the car fearfully but yet pridefully trying to defend the honor of this girl. She's sitting down and I say just sit here. I'll be back. So I'm frantic. Like I'm walking over here towards these guys fearfully and my heart's being out of my chest. My mind's racing.

And all of a sudden, the guy reaches for his waistband. He grabs a pistol. He waves it in the air. I turn and I run. He stands over me after I slipped and fall. Two gunshots. Boom. Boom.

And I didn't know what had just happened. I just, wait a minute. So you run from him, he chases you, you slip and fall, and he shoots you while you're on the ground to kill you. Yes. I remember like it was yesterday. Did he succeed? He did not.

That was a joke. He did not succeed. But I can't even tell you, wow, you did not expect that. I didn't expect a story to go there just now. That is a stunning thing. What happened at that moment? You've just been shot twice. It went from zero to 100 real quick.

It literally it turned into a track meet. I got up fast as I could. They walked away. Well, they ran away. I ran the opposite way towards the car. As I'm darting it towards the car. I dives at the left side of the car. I'm at the passenger side at this point.

I see the doors open on the passenger side of the car. the door. As I look in, the girl's gone. I hear this van pill out. So now in my mind, I'm thinking they're going to come over and finish me off. He's just going to pull up and finish me off. So my heart's beating. I'm nervous. I'm scared out of my mind. I'm dreading death because, one, I didn't know I was shot. The adrenaline was gone so much, but I knew this was the end. I've never been in this place before. But as I'm laying on this cold concrete, I began to feel this warm blood run up my back. And at that moment, I knew I was going to be. I was going to I was weaving in and out of consciousness,

and I was just scared out of my mind. And at that moment, I was thinking this, did I ever live? You know, I'm on the verge of death right now, but that I ever live. I want to go to a break. This is what we call a cliffhanger in show business. This is insane.

We're going to be right back, folks. I'm talking to Rashon. Copeland, the book is Start Where You Are. You're right back. Make like a Mr. Milk Toast, you'll get shut out Make like a Mr. Mey. Folks, I'm talking to Roshan,

Cofland, what a story. The book is called Start Where You Are, How God Meets You in Your Mess, loves you through it, and leads you out of it. Rishon, you were just telling us about this really nightmare moment in your life where you have been shot twice. You're lying on the ground, on the cold ground, alone.

And you are, you say, said you're going in and out of consciousness. And what is going through your head as you're lying there bleeding from two gunshot wounds? So my mind's racing, Eric. And I'm like, how did I get here? That was the number one question. Like, how did this all escalate so fast? You know, I would see stuff like this in movies. So I'm thinking about all this stuff. And, you know, the first thing that came to mind, did I ever live? I'm on the verge of death, which it felt like as I'm weaving in and and out of consciousness. But yeah, I lived.

I left for people. I lived for my coaches, which they weren't there. My friends weren't there. The girl wasn't there anymore. And obviously I'm here all along. And what I came to realize is that there's only one person I can call upon. And I needed to call upon Christ that night.

I knew of God. I knew of Christ. I heard, you know, the Baptist Pentecostal preacher preach about Christ. But that night, he became real to me. because I needed him at that moment, and he met me there. And that's why I'm so thankful, you know,

sometimes it takes us being broken, crushed under the weight of our own sin in order to figure out our need for him. And that's where he met me. Well, I mean, what you're describing, I guess let me ask you, are you saying that you thought of God at that time and something happened? What happened like that night, why you're at that, at that point? point right there at that point at that point as i began to cry out you know pray the best i could you know it felt like an eternity 20 minutes later a pickup truck truck pulls in and the guy jumps out

which i call him an angel to this day and he walks over and he picks me up and he throws me in the truck and he kills out and he gets me to the hospital and i'll never forget i've never seen that guy again. Did you notice nine? You've never seen that guy again? To this day. And he showed up that night on my deepest, darkest moment, and God used him to get me

to that hospital. He left with a shirt that was... But I'm also a little bit... But what I'm amazed by is that here you are a champion athlete on the football field, and you're just saying this guy picked him. you up and put you through you in the back of the, he must have been a big guy, whoever he was. Do you know, do you know, do you know,

how he heard about this, why he was there? Do you know these details? I have no idea. I have no idea how he knew, like, if he heard something, if he knew I was there, you know, the detectives asked me day in and day out, who is this guy, where do he come from, describe his car.

I still, to this day, can't even describe, outside it was a truck. This guy, or the car, really. Besides, he was wearing a white shirt that was full of blood, which I'm so grateful, you know, because they couldn't subpoena him that day. But I'm so glad, yeah, that he was there to save me that night. And I think he came long before I was ready,

just like Christ does for us. He demonstrated his love for us, all our sinners. Christ died for us. So he did the same thing for me. It sounds like a miracle to me. Yeah, it is. Rishon, sounds like a miracle for me. I mean, that this truck just shows up and this guy.

I mean, that sounds like a classic one of those miracle stories. But although you've got to make God as a sense of humor, why would an angel drive a truck? You kind of have to wonder, right? Yeah. But I've heard these stories before. I just find hilarious. An angel driving a truck.

Well, whoever it was, you're telling me that you're near death and you get taken to a hospital. what happens at the hospital? I mean, how badly were you injured? What did they figure out? You know, I lost a lot of blood that night. Outside the excruciating pain that I was having to endure through, I'll never forget, you know, one of the most memorable moments was when I'm laying on the bed

inside the hospital room, and I see my dad walk in. And, you know, my dad is a man of a great bravado. He's a bravado man. And like, and he's a military. military guy and I never had seen him cry, but when you walked through that door that day, tears were just rushing down his face. And as I'm looking at him, I just thought, like, how much more is my heavenly father, you know, yearning for me to be in a better place than I am.

Now, you know what I'm saying? That suffering was tough, but, man. But at the time, you're saying in retrospect, you're thinking that, because at the time, you're saying you were not really walking with God. You were, you were not there. at that time. At that time. Yeah, so look at retrospect as I think back to it. But I can't remember your father shows up. And what did they determine? You said you were in pain? Where were you shot? And what did the doctors say that night? Like, I'm just trying to get this story because this is so crazy. Yeah. So I was shot behind my leg. And it was two bullets. So one went straight through my hamstring. And thank God that it missed that big artery, you know, in the leg.

But also went through the back of the knee. And Nick, the second was a flesh wound that went through the back of the knee. And I'm thankful it didn't have any balls, no arteries. And that was right around the time my big mentor had passed away just by being shot, which was Sean Taylor. He was a guy in the NFL. And one of my big inspirations had just died from being shot in the leg. And I trailed him right.

after that. It was just a devastating thing. So obviously when something like this happens, it gets us thinking about ultimate things. It gets us thinking about God if we hadn't been thinking about him before. At what point in this from here on in, like does God come into your life? Or what happens after this? After this, what was amazing, a nurse actually, you know, spoke.

You know, it was like a Christian or a Catholic. Catholic hospital, but a nurse spoke some encouraging words over me and gave me a Bible. And when I had left there, you know, I began to, you know, get in the word of God, get into scripture as I'm realizing that, one, that my dream, you know, the football team that was going to recruit me that I was in love with, you know, they said they can't bring in this potential gang member on their team. So I was losing my scholarship and I began losing friends, the guys who were with you. me.

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. They thought you were a gang member. Like, were you, it doesn't sound to me like you were a gang member. But you're telling me that this university was Nebraska, you said? Yeah, yeah. So it was Nebraska, along with several other colleges that what I heard through the Great Vine is that they assumed that they didn't want to take any chances. It was one specific school that said they didn't want to take any chances with a potential

gang member. And you know what was crazy about that is because it was so close to my time getting, you know, getting shot against your potential gang member, I guess, in somebody's eyes. So your future just evaporates. And now you're, I mean, it is kind of, it's kind of stunning that you go from this path and then suddenly this happens. Yeah. And you were. But so were you reading the Bible on your own or did you get around people suddenly that are reading the Bible. How did that work out? I tried my best to get into it on my own. I was reading things like I came across. Proverbs was the only thing that really stuck out to me that I had a slight understanding of what it was talking about. And I read things like many are the plans of a man's heart,

but it's the Lord's purpose that prevail. And I was thinking, yeah, I got, I had a lot of plans. And I was trying to figure out like, what does it mean that God's purpose is prevailing over my life? and I was wrestling through all that. But here's the thing. I end up drifting from God as a, quote unquote, prodigal child. I don't even know if I was born again, but I end up drifting away because there was no discipleship. I tried my best to get into his word,

but the moment people start, the wrong influences came in, was the moment I began to drift away. And just like Psalms, one says, blessed is he who does not walk and step with the wicked, nor take the way that sinners take, nor sit in the company of mockers. But blessed is he who, you know, delights itself in the law of the Lord. But I was on the left side of that, you know. I was with the mockers.

So you got in what, this is now after high school. You graduate high school? Yeah. This is after now when I was in junior college. So I end up getting another opportunity. I recovered. I re-heeled. I went through PT, a physical therapist, and I got back on my feet,

and I ended up getting a scholarship to a junior college, which I played there. But when you know about a junior college, junior college is essentially all the people who couldn't make it to Division I because of academics or because they just didn't have the talent at that time. But with that being said, a lot of the Junko guys were the inner city guys who were the weed smokers, the pill popper, you know, the guys who was selling drugs are, you know, you know, You got in with a bad crowd at that time. Yeah. And I went. You got in with a bad crowd at that time.

Boom. And that's what happened. We're going to, Rashon, we're going to go to a break here. Folks, I'm talking to Rashon Copeland. The book is Start Where You Are, How God Meets You in Your Mess, Loves You Through It and leads you out of it. We'll be right back.

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issue. Mike Lindell with my pillow, you may notice that I have a bobble hell of him near me. He's here to remind all of us that when you go to mypillow.com, you get whopping discounts if you use the code Eric. Now, there are a lot of people who haven't done that and we have your names here. And Chris Heim's Ann Albin pointed out to me that there's like three pages of you who's first name is Eric. You, you're, I mean, that's humiliating for me that even though your name is Eric, you're still not willing

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Use the code Eric. You're going to get whopping savings and really high quality products. Did I mention that? Thank you. Hey there, folks. I'm talking to Rishon Copeland. The book is Start Where You Are. Rishon, your story is crazy.

So you're telling me now, okay, you get shot. You get this sounds miraculous thing that saves you from dying. You kind of meet God. Somebody gives you a Bible, whatever. But now your plans have changed. You're not going to one of these big schools or whatever. And now you've fallen with the wrong crowd. How long does that go on?

and, you know, what were you like at that time now? I was literally the guy trying to fit in because I didn't know what it really looked like to stand out. I was getting around all the wrong dudes. We'd go club and strip clubs while we're in school, you know, in this small town. And I was just trying to find my identity. And because it was attached to football,

I was attached to women, everything. And that was a way of numbing the pain for me. But here's what happened, Eric. As I began to become, you know, successful in the field and you go a bit, I got an opportunity to go to the University of Kansas in place. So it was the bigger sort of scene where you have more athletes, more prestige, more women, more everything. So I went down that rabbit hole of just like here, a little bit bigger, a little bit better. So let me go harder.

And what ends up happening is I find out that, like, After all this club and I find out that I'm about to have a baby at a wet lock, you know, because I was sleeping around. So I had a baby with one of my friends that I was in college with. Come to find out, you know, whenever you have a baby, there's real responsibilities that come, you know, in life. And I started taking life a little bit more serious. And I wanted to become a better man. So we end up moving. And I transferred to a smaller school in Oklahoma, which was a Division II school,

to slow down a bit. And as I was at the school, the reality hit that I'm not going to be some NFL star, are going to the CFL. These big opportunities aren't going to happen for me anymore. So I look at my dad's life as an Army, well, he was actually a Coast Guard, a petty officer. And I was like, maybe I can compete with my dad.

Maybe I can win his approval now and become an Army officer. So let me pursue, take my little 2.5 GPA, try to pursue academics as hard as I can, join the ROTC and prove to my dad that I can be this man for him and make him happy, make him proud, because that's all I really wanted to do. And I ended up joining ROTC, began doing really great at that, and I commissioned into the Army. And when I went to Army medical school, it sort of went back into that spiral. And I end up, yeah, acting a fool, sleeping around. I wasn't married to the girl I was with that had my son. And I went down this, again, dark rabbit hole, which led to really a broken moment. But the way I came to Christ once and for all, I was in L.A.

when I was a hype man for a guy named Soldier Boy. So I almost went like AWOL from the military just so I can go pursue this heated. Wait, wait, wait, you were a what? I was a hype man. You were a what? You were a hot, what? A hype man. Basically, it's...

What is that? For rappers or, you know, for DJs, when you're at shows and performances, it's like a glorified host at rap shows. Okay. So you were... Somehow you got into that. Exactly. And in the middle of that, somehow God tackled you. Yes.

It was a crazy journey. I was so everywhere with my identity. Because I was wearing this, I was wearing proudly this American U.S. Army uniform had, you know, my little officer rank. I was proud of everything else. I was making my dad, you know, happy. There was this glorious side of Rishan. And then there was this dark side that I was hiding in the shadows of my own lust and my own, you know, desires that was really, really dark. And then that side won over.

You know, I've seen my cousin. He was out in L.A. he was working with people like Zach Ephron. He was the only black guy in the movie American Pie. I was like, let me go out there and pursue that dream that my cousin's doing because, you know, comparison to

envy, you know, really drove me there to go sort of compete, maybe even a little discontentment. And I get out there with him. And at that point, I'm literally just trying to climb the ladder of, yeah, LA Hollywood fame,

the ride that rocket shipping. again, it will plummet a little bit later, but yeah, it was just a tough time for me trying to figure out my identity because it was everywhere. And when did you bump into God for sure? So here's that moment where I was at my dark point. So I was in this home in L.A., you know, things were great on the outside, but despite the success on the outside, I was miserable. And one night I was going to take my life. So I go down the hall. I open up the locker where the pistol was.

And I was like, I'm just done with it. You know, there's no hope beyond this. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Man, you're like, you get to these powerful moments. You are going to take your life. So you're telling me that all this stuff goes on and on. You go from here to there, here to there.

And now you come. Things get so bad that you're going to take your life. How old were you at that time? I was exactly 25 years old at that time. So it was less than a decade ago. And why would you so bad that you were going to kill yourself? Yeah, yeah. It just was utterly, you know, here's the thing,

what I've learned more and more like, sin promised me freedom, but it didn't never delivered on it. It promised me fun, but it was utterly empty. It promised me all this stuff, but literally it killed my people. it killed my peace, it stole my joy and it suffocated my sanity. And at that point, I was like, why? Why am I here? Like, if this wasn't, if I pursued, I did everything I could to come out here and be successful

as I'm slowly climbing. This isn't work. We have to go to a break. Forgive me, I'm interrupting again. We're going to go to a break. This is amazing. We'll be right back with Rishon Copeland. Don't go away.

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If we can start where you are. Rishan, you said that now, after all of this stuff, you try to take your life. So what happens? You have the gun. You're 25 years old. What happens? So I'm in the room. I finally get back to the room, which it felt like an eternity walking down that hallway.

And I get on my knees and I'm shaking. And I'm putting a gun in my mouth to piss on my. my mouth and I'm taking it out and I'm questioning. I'm picking it back up. I'm putting it in my mouth and I'm shaking and I'm taking it back out. And I'm thinking of so many different things. The first thing I thought of when the pistol was in my mouth, the very first thing I thought of is one, if I were to take my life right now and die, if I were to die, I'm going to have to meet not only this omnipotent, omniscient, all-knowing, all-seeing God who is so loving, but I'm going to have to meet this judge, the one who created me. I'm going to have to stand before.

for him. But number two, if I were to take take my life right now and live, I'm going to have to go through that same pain that I went through as a 17 year old boy sitting out on that parking lot, that cold night with that warm blood going on my back. And I don't want to go through that pain no more. I know the havoc that a bullet, you know, that a bullet does to a human body. I don't want to go through that again. So my God, show up, like, meet me where I am. Like, that's essentially what I will saying, I need you. If you're real, please show me and reveal yourself to me. And then out of nowhere, brother, what ends up happening, and it came in a way I never thought. That's why I'm so thankful for the digital world, this digital age where people can really interrupt us. There can be the

divine intervention and things like that. But my phone lights up out of nowhere. And the only Christian girl I was following that went to Baylor University had just, you know, wrote me a message, well, she sent a post and it said this as I open it up. Oh, how wide, how deep, how vast the love of God is, and nothing in all creation can separate us from this love that's found in Christ Jesus. And as I was reading it, Eric, and reading it, I began weeping and weeping. For the first time I unload my heavy soul to the God who knew me and knows me. And he met me there, bro. And I felt his presence.

And there was so much more that happened that same night after that, where I was just, you know, literally unloading myself to God and him filling me back up. But it was just amazing. I had genuinely like repented of all my sin and my brokenness. And I met him. Yeah, I cried out to him like I never had before. Yeah, such a mystery. John, you kind of, we'll never understand until we get to glory to ask God, like, why you would allow me to get that low, that I have a gun in my mouth.

And then to get a message on your phone that is your answer. And for some reason, at that moment, that answer, you let it in. And it changed you that might. You know, it went all the way in. I guess if you hadn't been so low, you might have batted it at a way. way. But you were so low, life and death, and that you let it in. And that's like, what, eight years ago and your life could not be more different. You've been, I mean, just for my audience, tell my audience what has happened since then. Since then, brother, like, I'm so glad you asked. Like,

even that night, it wasn't over, you know, because that night, I just didn't go from sunshine, you know, I didn't go to sunshine raises and rainbows. Like after, you know, going through that dark battle depression, I began wrestling with God like Jacob. And he revealed himself to me even in a clearer way. That morning, the next morning I woke up, I had this prompting to look underneath my bed. Like, there was something, you know,

that just drove me to look underneath my bed. And as I look underneath my bed and I pull out a suitcase I've never seen before in the house. I've never seen the suitcase before. as I crack it open and it goes open and it just opens up and on the top of it it was dirty clothes but it was this treasure that I'll never forget but it was a book guess what book it was the Bible the B I B L that's the book I was the Bible yes yes under the bed in the suitcase you didn't know there exactly and when I crack it open Eric I go over to the red letters that was the first thing that stuck out, right? And as I go over to the red letters, I read these words and it hit me head on

like a semi-truck. It said this, he that wants to keep his life must lose it, but he that loses his life for my namesake shall gain it. And then it went off to say this, and I was like, it stuck me right in my tracks. But it said, what is it profited man to gain the whole world, but yet lose his soul? It never stuck out to me. You know, my friend, my brokenness, my need for God as much as it did in that moment. And I literally left everything, Eric. And I jumped on the Greyhound bus, stole that Bible. Matter of fact, the Bible's number one stole a book in the world. I don't know who Bible it was, but I took it that day as I left there. And I literally fell in love with the Word of God. Read it, read it, read it until it read me.

And it changed everything, bro. And I got on a bus. Was that prodigal child headed back to Oklahoma? and now I'm right back here in the Bible Belt, never looked back and never turned. I will not turn back, but he met me where I was and he's taking me where I need to be, bro. Like only God. So you, at that moment, today you are a father and a husband and a minister. What did you do when you came back to Oklahoma City, you know, these years ago now,

What did you do? How did you, did you get involved in ministry right away? How did you, what happens at that point? Love it. So what I end up doing, I went back to my brother's apartment, which he was a college student at that time. They had no couch. They, in their living room, it was just three college guys, athletes. And I went to slept on his couch floor until I got myself a job where God launched my ministry in a county jail where I, I would literally go and share the gospel, but it took much time before I was able to do that. I had to get planning on the church, get disciples. And then from that point is where my launching pad was in Oklahoma County Jail. But yeah, and then God blessed me with a beautiful bride who I love so much. And she is my helper outside the Holy Spirit.

And I got these beautiful young boys that are popping out like hot cake since I got married. It's just been a phenomenal, phenomenal journey by the grace of God, bro. That is so great. We're going to go to a break. Final segment with Rishon, Copeland, the book is Start Where You Are. We'll be right back. Books, I'm talking to Rishon, Copeland, crazy story, happy ending. The book is Start Where You Are.

So it's a beautiful thing to think that you went through all these struggles and misery, trying this and trying that. And then finally you land in God's hands. And he's obviously done so much with you. And, you know, he's only just beginning, right? When we accept him, we just crossed the starting line, as far as I'm concerned. Now we can be who he wants us to be because we know we belong to him. So what have you been doing, you know, in these last years? You said you had gotten involved in prison ministry.

And I know that, you know, you got to know Mani Paciano because you're doing ministry in the Philippines. And it's just kind of a, it's amazing what God has allowed you to do. Yeah, by the grace of God, because I've never seen myself being a Christian, Eric, let alone like a author, a Christian author. I've never seen this coming. Only the grace of God can make something like this happen. But it's the most joy-filled yet humbling thing ever because we're entrusted with this beautiful gospel. And to share it with the world makes all the difference in the world. So even on days I don't feel like sharing it or to people who don't feel like hearing it,

it's just what I live to do. In him, do I live and be and do I have my being? So I'm trying to do everything I can to stay in his presence and live for. him and even to the point, just like Bonhopper, dying for him if I have to, which I love your book, man. I love all your stuff. So appreciate you, Eric. Well, you're a very kind, young man. Well, I want to tell you, that's the beauty of studying the lives of some of those who've gone before us. You realize that they did not fear death because they recognized that, you know, if I accept Jesus, I will never die. Never. So I have no fear that that, that I have, that, that, I don't fear that,

I can be serving him here, but I'm going to die to self so I can belong to him and he can use me. And there's nothing more beautiful. And you know and I know that sharing that with people who don't yet know that is very joyful. It's a spectacular thing to be able to share it with people remembering that we once didn't get it. They don't get it. Maybe we can share it with them. But you are doing that, you know, full time now to say the least. And finally, you have this book out.

It's just, it's wonderful to know how God has turned your life around. And, you know, with a couple of close calls here. I mean, that's a mystery too. Wow. Yeah. The idea. Right. That's exactly right.

And I'm thankful for this, Eric, that brokenness, and someone may need to hear this today, but brokenness is sometime where God stops us, he halts us. He literally kills our progress so that we. truly can look up and see that we're utterly insufficient without him with all that we have, all that we do, all that we think we are. Like, he literally will take us to a point where he like breaks us to save us. And I think David said it the best when he said, let these bones you have crushed rejoice. Well, you know, that's exactly right.

That's my story in a different way. I was also, it was right right on my 25th birthday. And it's a different story, but it's a very similar story. you completely despair of this world and you start realizing that I don't know you know you kind of come face to face with the fact that life has no meaning and then God comes in and he says I have given it meaning and I want to give you meaning in me and everything changes and when that happens you want to share that with everybody because we all we know you know and I know there are people going through this stuff right now wondering asking questions so we're at a time but Rishon Copeland, wonderful to hear your story, to get to know you a little bit. Ladies and gentlemen, this book is called Start Where You Are, How God Meets You and Your Mess, Loves You Through It and Leads You Out of it. Rishon, congratulations on this book, and God bless you, my brother, to be continued.

God bless you, Harry. Thank you so much for having you.