The Eric Metaxas Show - Rev. Dr. James Kearny

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

Dr. James Kearney discusses transgenderism and scripture

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mataxis show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. It's a nutritious smoothie of creamy, fresh yogurt, vanilla, vanilla protein powder, and a mushy banana. For your mind? Drink it all down.

It's nummy. I wub, banilla. I wub, I wub, I wop, wab. Here comes Eric Metaxus. Hey, folks, welcome to the program. It's the Eric Metaxe show. I will be playing the role of Eric Metaxus until we can actually find the real Eric.

My guest today is someone who has a few things in common with me. Both of us graduated Yale University. And astonishingly, both of us are Jesus freaks. We believe in the bodily resurrection, all that kooky stuff. I don't know how it happened. James Kearney is a pastor in the Seattle area. James, welcome back. Thanks, Eric. So good to be with you again. Great to be with you. And you, I mean, there's so many things we can talk about. Why don't you, for my audience, you know, give us a brief reprise of your journey, in a sense, from non-faith to faith and then into ministry and where you

are now? And, okay, five seconds or less, I keep it brief. Well, the interesting thing about Jesus is that he seems to pick the unlikely character. I think if ever I were to write my story, that would be the title. Because I was, like you, an unlikely character to be a follower of Jesus. I grew up the son of the Navy, my Navy captains all the way back. Roman Catholic, prep school, Yale,

and then was having a very good time at Yale when God reached down and saved me. And when I was a member of the Wiff and Poops, right? I told you that. Yeah, that's an amazing thing. Anybody knows the story, you know, the Wiff and Poofs were this storied singing group at Yale. It's a whole story. But the idea that you were in your senior year,

in the Wiff and Poofs, and you had this dramatic conveys. version, as did a number of the others, other members of the whiff and poofs, it is kind of, it really is, it really is amazing. When I heard you tell that story, I almost couldn't believe it. So it does sort of underscore the idea that God can reach anyone, folks. I don't know, you know, if you have any hopeless people out there, but if he reached James Kearney and Eric Mattaxas, I will tell you, it's extraordinary.

So did you go into the ministry? immediately after Yale? What did you do after Yale? Well, it was interesting because I was headed to be an actor in New York. And I actually had an angel in New York that had been grooming me and supporting me financially, a guy named Fred Koch, part of the Koch brothers. And I traveled around the world with him. And then I went home to Atlanta to tell my folks, you know, I'm going to go to New York.

They're all excited. And I said, but I'm going to pray about it. And they're like, what? I said, yeah, because I've recently become serious about my faith. And they were like, well, okay. But when I did, God said, don't go. He said, this will be absolutely disastrous if you go to New York. You will make a league of people not of my spirit.

And you will not receive help nor profit, but only shame, disgrace, and humiliation. Now, wait a minute. Now, when you say this, because there are people listening who pray and they don't really hear from God in the way. How did you, because it can be different for everyone, but in your life, at that moment, how did you hear from God? Did you hear an audible voice?

Did you hear an internal voice? Did you not hear a voice? Did you get an impression? How did that happen for you? Because this is such a major inflection point in your life. How did that happen? What are the details of that? What are the details?

Well, Jesus said that we're to follow him. And if we're going to do that, then he needs to talk to us, right? He needs to tell us what to do and where to go. And yet this has been called Crazy Land by most of the Western Church. But, you know, I prayed. This was back when I was asking about going to New York, I prayed with an expectation that God would speak. But I didn't know what that looked like. I'd never been taught that.

I'd never had that modeled for me. Right. This was just something that I was actually hoping that I would get some kind of direction. So really, I was a newbie in all of this. So I was sitting in a chair. It was 8 o'clock at night. I had a Bible in my lap. I thought that would be a good idea.

And I just laid it out. I said, Lord, I'm going to go to New York. I want to receive Fred's help. I want to be an actor. What do you think? And then I just paused because, of course, you need to listen. And then I just sensed that there was a scripture that was going to give me direction. So I played Bible roulette, meaning I just took my Bible and I just flicked it open with my eyes closed and then just plumped my finger down on the page.

Trusting that God was directing this and what happened? I had never done this before and I looked down and it was Isaiah chapter 30 and it said, woe to the rebellious children declares the Lord, who make plans without consulting me, who set out to go to Egypt to receive Pharaoh's help, to make a league with the people not of my spirit. So though they have officials at Hainis and they've got envoys at Zoan, and I travel with him all over Europe, Italy, France, England,

so I'd been all these places. you will not receive help nor profit, but only shame, disgrace, and humiliation. I mean, it's kind of funny because of all the things you could have looked at in scripture, that really does seem dramatically accurate in terms of the kind of thing that you're just saying, I need an answer. Yes. Now, the funny thing is, I've heard from God in various ways. And, you know, I think we have to do it with real humility, with expectation on

the one hand, but with humility, the idea that, Lord, I, I, I don't know how you want to speak to me. Yes. And you may not speak to me. You still love me. Maybe you're speaking to me in other ways. But, you know, for me, the mechanics of it are interesting to talk about so that people understand. I wrote a book called Miracles talking about all the different ways that God speaks miraculously.

It's not always the same thing. And sometimes people like to create some doctrine, you know, it's got to happen this way. this way. But so for you, it really was the scripture itself, but you believe that the Holy Spirit led you to that specific scripture. And I have to say, it sounds like you were right. Well, I was gobsmacked. I mean, I was, because when the Holy Spirit leads us to a scripture or to a series of circumstances or to a conversation where he wishes to highlight, he brings an understanding at the same time. And so for me, this thing was just like a bright light. And I knew exactly what he was talking about. So you, I'm guessing, took God's advice and did not go to New York

to pursue this acting career. No. Of course, the next question, the next question, of course, is, well, okay, now what? Yeah. Right. And then I looked down at the page, and I saw a scripture sort of pop up off this page, which was again Isaiah 30, that said, you shall hear a voice behind you saying this is the way walk in it, whether you turn to the right or turn to the left. And so that was his, come and follow me. So at that point, you know you're not going to New York. What are you going to do? Well, my parents asked me that same question when I came home, right? Here is their boy that had gone to Yale, right? Here is their boy that they could talk about at cocktail parties.

Here was the boy that was doing all the fun things who, let's say, you know, when they flew to New Haven to visit me, I greeted them on the tarmac and white tie and tails, took them to Walsy Hall where we had dinner with the president and it heard me saying, I mean, this was, this was, they were living, you know, the life. And now suddenly I was saying, I'm turning my back from all of that. So they had a hard time understanding. Also, in terms of God's leading, he led me, since it wasn't acting, I needed to find a job. And as an Adelwork actor, forgive me, James, we're going to go to a break here. We've got plenty more coming up. Folks, I'm talking to James Kearney, K-E-A-R-N-Y, who is currently a pastor in Seattle, not an actor in New York.

We'll be right back. Deciding what to do and talk of opportunity. Technology is moving so fast. It's hard for many churches and nonprofits to keep up with the trends, especially when it comes to giving. Stay ahead of the curve with SecureGiv 7 and 1 giving system with all new features like AutoCard Updator, cryptocurrency giving, and tap to give kiosks with Apple Pay.

It's the system that's proven to engage more people in giving, and it's all back with their full suite of management, tools that enable you to gain insight into your churches giving at a glance. But Secure Give is more than a tech company. It's a partner in growing giving and engagement. They believe that every church should be fully funded and they want to help you to make that happen. Empower people to support your church's mission through SecureGives, seamless, integrated,

all-in-one giving technology. Visit SecureGiv.com slash Metaxus today to get six months of free software to see why SecureGiv is the trusted giving solution. Again, get six months of free software. when you go to securegiv.com slash metaxus. Securegiv.com slash metaxus. Legacy precious metals has a revolutionary new online platform that allows you to invest in real gold and silver online.

In a few easy steps, you can open an account online, select your medals of choice, and choose to have them stored in a vault or ship to your door. You'll have access to a dashboard where you can track your portfolio growth in real time anytime. You'll see transparent pricing on, each coin and bar. This puts you in complete control of your money.

The platform is free to sign up for. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com and open your account and see this new investing platform for yourself. Gold can hedge against inflation and against the volatile stock market. A true diversified portfolio isn't just more stocks and bonds, but different asset classes. This new platform allows you to make investments in gold and silver, no matter how small or large with a few clicks,

visit LegacyPMinvestments.com to get started. You're going to love this free new tool that they've added. Please go check it out today. That's LegacyPMinvestments.com. Welcome back talking to James Kearney, who like me graduated Yale University and turned into a total Jesus freak, kicking to the curb, all the accoutreement of high society. It's kind of funny. So the idea that you're, you know, you're actually a whiff and poo. greeting your parents in white tie and tails on the tarmac.

Part of me wants to say, like, man, what a jerk. But God delivered you from being a total idiot and called you unto himself and away from the cocktail parties at Wolsey Hall. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just kind of hilarious. But, okay, so we don't have a ton of time, and I want to talk to you about some specific things that you're working on. But so, roughly speaking, what happened after that?

How do you pursue ministry? What happens? What happened is that God had called me during that world tour to go and rebuild his house, for it had fallen into ruin. This was my life call. I received it when I was at a Cizzi in a St. Francis's call, and I thought, well, that's good. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

You said world tour. You didn't explain, so I will explain. You and the whiff and poofs were on a world tour. This is what the whiff and poofs do. they're this, as I say, this fabled singing group that have they fallen on pretty hard times. No one's heard of them anymore. But honestly, you're in the place where St. Francis is from, Assisi, and God spoke to you there and said, I want you to rebuild my house, which is exactly what he said to St. Francis in Assisi.

How did God communicate that to you at that point? How did that happen? Oh, interesting. Well, one, I was doing my very first fast, which I had never done before, and I needed to because I'd been at cocktail parties and eating sumptuously for, you know, all through Asia and all through Europe. And so at our next gig, it was between London and Spoledo. We were going to be at the Spoledo Festival. So I had about three days in between.

So I decided to go on a fast and go to a Sisi because it was one stop away from Spoledo because I was a good Catholic. When I was there, I was taken in by a Franciscan, an American Franciscan. from Ohio, who was there for the summer. And he gave me a biography of St. Francis, and I was wandering around Spacey, because at this point it had been about two days without food, and I got up to the top of the hill and was leaning up against a castle and looking at over the Umbra Valley. It's a beautiful warm day, you know, in Italy, just absolutely gorgeous. And I'm reading about this fellow, St. Francis, that sounds a lot like me. He was upper, he was middle class, had a lot of money. And God had broken into his life, and he was trying to follow God. And he didn't know

what to do. So he was at the chapel of San Damiamo, St. Francis was looking at the crucifix, and the crucifix spoke to him. And in the book, they suddenly had out in quotes what the crucifix said, what Jesus said, and go and rebuild my house, for it has fallen into ruin. And at that moment, there was a burst above my head of four doves, three white and one black, and they went way out over the valley. Wait a minute. So the moment you're reading this, you're in this beautiful place reading this biography of St. Francis in the place where St. Francis is from.

And in the moment that you read the line that Jesus spoke to St. Francis in the 13th century, in that moment, four doves explode over. your head, not literally explode, but explode into flight. It felt like that. Yeah. And it was a way of, it's sort of God's lovely way of emphasizing circumstances. And you could of course say, well, that was just circumstance. And you can, you know, which the secularists always do. They always look at the world and they try to bottom line it so that nothing means anything. Right. But one of the things that we understand as Christians is that with God's creation, everything means everything. And he is constantly communicating to us through the small,

us to detail. And the big part of it is just, are we listening? It's not just God's speak, but do we have ears to hear? The idea that God would use four birds to underscore a sentence in a book, it's pretty amazing, actually. It's pretty amazing way to use punctuation, to use birds. Use birds, birds as punctuation. That's good. As a writer, that's exactly right. and he did it twice. So I'm reading this along and I'm going, so I stop and I just wonder, what does that mean? Okay, so Francis, in his response,

he had some money that his dad had given him to trade for some cloth, and he actually gave it to the priest of that little chapel, and he began physically rebuilding it. Well, his dad was furious, and so he went down, he grabbed him, when he found him, grabbed him, brought him up before the bishop, and said, He said, you need to give me my money back.

And Francis said, no, I've given it to God. And he said, well, I'll take you in front of the magistrate. You're going to give me my money back. And Francis said, well, I don't listen to the magistrate anymore. And he goes, well, what about the bishop? Will you listen to the bishop? What about Romans 13, Francis? Okay.

Well, he was sort of a young guy at this point. He was early in his faith full of fire. So his dad brings him up to the bishop, the bishop, who's there in town, and the bishop comes down. and the big crowd comes around, and the father tells the bishop what his son had done and said, you need to get my son to give his money back. Basically, he wanted his son back. And the bishop looked at Francis and said, what is your response? Okay. At this point, Francis, who's actually a singer, too, which is interesting, and very dramatic, he takes off all of his clothes until he's standing there naked. He gives the clothes to his dad. And then he says this phrase. And again, this is a second time in the book

that you see the actual words printed out. And it said, you are no longer my father. I only have my father who is in heaven. So in that moment, when I read that phrase, I hadn't even gotten to the period. I didn't even got to the end of the quotation mark. There's a burst above my head. And those four birds, same, three white and one black, come out of the castle right above my head, fly way out over the umbra, I'll take a long arc and come back right above my head, punctuating that sentence. And again, I'm standing there, gobsmack going, God, are you speaking to me again? This is the second time, obviously, that this happened. Now, the fact that it happened in exactly the same way twice argues that we're no longer in the

realm of coincidence. is very dramatic. So yeah, go ahead. Well, and what it did is that both these statements ended up shaping my life profoundly. And the one was my life call, which was to go and rebuild my house, which was church renewal. And the second was is that this entire value system that I had been raised with by my father, because fathers carry value and value systems and communicate that to their kids, which I had to do with prep school and Yale and achievement and being a leader in this world. He was telling me to lay that down, that I needed to make a break with the value system that my father had given me. And I had this new value system that I needed to adopt, which is from my

heavenly father. And obviously, this all happened before you go back home and have this experience reading in the chair. So we... So this is this is where... This is what it leads up to. Yeah. Is that for the next 15 years, God leads me to becoming a carpenter where I'm actually rebuilding homes of the poor in Atlanta, Knoxville, and Seattle. Where he, it's like Moses. Moses spends, is raised in the palace with the best education, the best advantages.

He feels a call to leadership, tries to become a. leader, messes up, ends up in the desert. He needs another 40 years hurting his father-in-law sheep as a nobody, as also blue collar, in order to complete his education. Just to be clear, Moses never made it to Atlanta. The parallel breaks down at that point. Moses never made it to Atlanta. as far as we know nobody from that part of the world had ever made it to Atlanta

until like, you know, Oglethorpe in the early 18th century. All right, you got to joke around. This is so amazing. So you, you know, you're just telling us a story of your journey with God.

It's beautiful. I want to get to some specifics of where you are now. Oh, sure. If you can, well, I mean, just give us 30 seconds of what happened between then and now so we can kind of frame it. All right.

Well, I wanted to go into ministry, and God said, no, you're an actor. Isn't that interesting? After all these years as a carpenter. Yeah. And so I went, okay, instead of going to seminary, which I was applying to in my mid-20s, I went to acting school, and I actually went to Seattle to the Capitol Hill neighborhood to, and entered into acting school full time and was trained as an actor there in Capitol. Hill, right? And then ended up becoming a professional actor in Seattle. Right. So,

so that's the second part of my life. I have this whole part of my life as a carpenter. Very interesting. At what point did you officially get ordained? Uh-oh, we're at a time in this segment. We'll be right back. We need you to help Israel right now. Go to our website, metaxis talk.com. There's a banner, Israel at war. We need your help. There's all kinds of things they're doing if you go to metaxis talk.com. The phone number 800-235-775. We're talking to James Kearney, don't go away. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain.

I'm often asked that question just the other night. I was asked that question. Well, the owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal. That's right, designed to heal. And I agree with them. And the doctors who formulated Relief Factor for them selected the four best ingredients, yes, 100% drug-free ingredients, and each one of them helps your body deal with inflammation. Each of the four ingredients deals with inflammation from a different metabolic pathway.

That's the point. So approaching from four different angles may be why so many people find such wonderful relief. If you've got back pain, shoulder, neck, hip, knee, or foot pain from exercise or just getting older, you should order the three-week quick start discounted to only 1995 to see if it'll work for you. It has worked for about 70% of the half a million people who've tried it and have ordered more on one of them. Go to Relieffactor.com or call 800 for relief to find out about this offer. Feel the difference. Hey folks, you've all helped support MyPill and their employees in these tough economic times. Mike Lindell knows this and continues to give back to listeners with deals on his most popular products. You've heard me recently speak about the

my slippers, the Giza sheets, My Pillo 2.0 and more. For a limited time, the MyPillow six-pack bath towel set is back in stock. Take it from me, these towels are highly recommended. They're luxuriously soft and super absorbent, meaning they actually function like a towel should. With a special deal, you'll get two bath towels, two hand towels, and two wash cloths. A complete set normally, 7998, but for a limited time for all my listeners, go to Mypillow.com, use promo code Eric to snag this set for just 3999. That's a 50% discount. Visit mypillar.com today, or dial 800 978-3057 to grab this deal with promo code Eric. Act fast.

It won't last. Use promo code Eric for more specials. 800-978-3057. Use promo code Eric or Mypillow.com. Welcome back, folks, talking to James Kearney. So, James, you, how do you actually get ordained or at what point do you officially go into ministry? So I'm an actor in town. in Seattle and an equity actor and doing stuff and actually became part of a Christian theater company.

And then I was married, had three kids, and God says, now I want you to become, I want you to go to seminary. And the way it happened was I actually preached for my pastor at a little Presbyterian church in downtown Seattle. and when I was done, the entire congregation said, you need to go to seminary. And it was something that I wanted to do, but that really became, it was the confirmation of the congregation that really pulled the trigger, and they sent me to seminary. Right. But at this point, I go, okay, God, you know, I wanted to go to seminary when I was young and single. Now I'm married. I have a family of five, but here, let's let's talk to her. I will quit my job and I will go to seminary full time for three years, but I have a couple of conditions.

One, I don't want to have to work because I need to go to school and it's a time to study. And also, my kids are young, they need me. Two, I don't want my wife to work because, again, I don't want her to pay the price for my call and our kids are young. They need her. three i don't want to go into debt if you got because again ministry does not pay so if you can handle that i'm all yours okay i'm guessing lord handled it some way i'm guessing that you read a sentence in a book and four doves burst you or maybe you open the scripture and you read thou shalt not muzzle the ox which treadeth out the corn and four oxen suddenly appeared in in the room did that happen i'm just guessing

Well, no, actually I had a Canadian CPA who was a member of the congregation, and he came up to me, he goes, well, Jim, I hear you're going to seminary. I said, yeah. He goes, well, how are you going to pay for it? I said, I have no idea. And he goes, you ever thought about sending a letter around? I said, would anybody listen? Would anybody give? He said, I would.

I went, oh, okay. So I started fundraising. and it wasn't my idea. It was him, and it turned out that not only did I get enough money to send myself to support me in a family of five per seminary and get through the whole thing, I had an uncle die my second year and leave me some inheritance. I came out of seminary with $10,000 in the bank. Wow. I mean, so we're not making much progress in games. getting to the present because I had all these things I wanted to talk to you about, but what you're

doing now. So let's do it. Let's, I mean, because these are miracle stories and they're important that people hear them, actually, very important. But so you go to seminary, at what point, and what was the denomination that you were ordained in? So it's PC USA, the Presbyterian Church, USA. Okay, now they are not famous for being active in the world of spiritual warfare and the gifts of the Holy Spirit and that kind of stuff. So how did that happen for you? Because that did happen for you big time at some point. It did. How did that happen? I didn't learn about any of that within my seminary training or in the churches that I was leading. But when I came to Seattle, and God called me to Seattle years later, he led me to start a church in the Capitol Hill neighborhood, the very

neighborhood where I had gone to art school, the very neighborhood where I had met my wife, and where she had become a Christian. And we put together an art-based Presbyterian church in this old building. Again, it's another miracle story for another day. But what happened is that when I got there, I realized that everything that I had learned, everything that I had practiced, everything that all the tools didn't have enough firepower to advance the kingdom in that environment. It was too hostile. It was too indifferent. There was too much spiritual warfare, too many broken families, too many lives in the culture.

And I was stuck. But then I happened to do a sermon series through the books of Acts. And I went, there's the answer right there in scripture. Because I said, they did it back in the day. Why can't I do it now? And I saw the reason. It was the person and work of the Holy Spirit, which included doing everything that Jesus did. It's like the Bible went from being true to being actually true.

So you didn't buy into that jug-headed cessationist theology? No. I'm sorry. I got to. It's just, okay, so you, so yeah, you say, okay, I need the Holy Spirit. Well, how do you get the whole? How does that happen? How does that suddenly begin activating?

Well, it begins with prayer. And we did a serious commitment to prayer. We had 40 days of prayer. We started the church with prayer and mission. And the prayer was unbelievable because this was not a church known for praying. We were rather light when it came to that. But people did respond, and we had a room set aside in the church where we had someone praying day and night for 40 days at a time.

And it was transformative. And the other was mission. And when I was in Africa actually teaching through World Vision, some rural pastors in Tanzania, I found that my translator, Zabodayu, had a healing and deliverance ministry. And he began to instruct me in healing and deliverance. That does not sound, healing and deliverance does not sound very PC USA. I think you're going to get in trouble with your elders when we come back. When the government used emergency edicts during COVID to restrict the gathering and worship of churches,

three pastors facing the risk of imprisonment, unlimited fines, and their own churches being ripped apart, took a courageous stand and reopened their doors and the face of a world that chose to comply. The Essential Church is a feature-length documentary that explores the struggle between the church and government throughout history. This fascinating story uncovers those who have seen. sacrifice their lives throughout history for what they truly believe in. We discover why the church is essential and how we prove that this stand remains true from a scientific, legal, and most importantly, biblical perspective. This is not your typical movie.

It'll change your life. You need to see this movie with your friends and family. The Essential Church is streaming today exclusively at SalemNow.com. That's Essential Church, streaming at SalemNow.com. All right, talking to James Kearney, and you can reach him at dunamus basics.org. Dunamis, duneas, dunamis, basics.org. Dunamis basics.org. So you go to Africa and you meet somebody who has ministry in healing and deliverance, pretty important stuff.

And obviously you realize, hey, this is real. Right. So let me cut to the chase. Okay. So where we are in the West is the end of Christendom, which means it's this unity or this partnership between church and state that began with Constantine, and it's over. And now in the West, we're learning how to be the church where we're no longer partnered with culture. And what we're discovering is the New Testament Church, which was by my spirit church as opposed to a power and might church. I was taught it was all about education.

It was all about finance. It was all about buildings. That's how you advance the kingdom of God. But that is the Christendom model. But now we're going back to the way the rest of the world has been, like Tanzania. It's by my spirit. It's through prayer. It's through demonstrations of the spirits.

power. It's through confrontations with evil spirits where they're actually defeated in the name of Jesus and people are set free. And the teachings that I learned when I was in Capitol Hill basically are modeling that. And that is something that the entire country is discovering now. It is a by my spirit type of Christianity that is setting the church free and it's going to bring revival because that is how the church grows. So you were saying that right now in Seattle where you live, you're seeing signs of revival. You're seeing signs of the Holy Spirit moving powerfully. Talk about that.

Well, it is. I'm part of a church now called The Pursuit, which has lots and lots of young people and old people. It's a big mix. And the worship is absolutely off the hook. I mean, in terms of people jumping up and down and calling out to Jesus and then hearing the word proclaimed and seeing people set free and seeing people, you know, coming alive in the spirit is, it is unbelievable. But this must be disturbing to the PCUSA leadership.

Well, a lot of it is they don't know about it, although I am going to preach for a church this Sunday, and it's going to be, the leadership is going to be there because the church is actually closing. So I'm wondering about that, because I've actually, Eric, I have been ostracized by the leadership here in Seattle. And I've been pushed to one side because, well, one, I'm not on the LBTQ train, right? That's been a big one. But also I'm seen as a troublemaker.

Yeah. So. Yeah, you're a big troublemaker, obviously. So it is, it's amazing, though, because you've seen the reality. What I find so funny, James, is like, you know, you went to Yale, I went to Yale. You know, you have these credentials. which we know are garbage. But what do people think that we've just lost our minds?

We're making stuff up. You have seen God move. I've seen God move many, many, many, many times. So the idea that people would be so theologically hidebound that they can't bear to, you know, open up a little bit and say, is there something I might learn? Is God speaking? You know, that's, of course, sad.

And, of course, to some extent, evil, because this is God what you're talking about, and anybody opposed to that is ultimately opposed to the work that God is doing. You're seeing God moving in this church. What's it called in Seattle? It's called the pursuit. The pursuit. The pursuit.

The pursuit. Yeah, it's really good. All right. So I found not everyone was happy about all of this. I had a number of people that left the church. I had a number of people that were offended. I have a numbers of people that have been taken out in terms of sin and spiritual warfare. And then I have a number of people that were revived and whose lives were changed and who are now on fire for God.

And so I've entered into this arena of conflict, which really feels a lot more like Scripture. You know, I found that comfortably saved were the ones that were the most put out because it was a challenge that they didn't want to accept. because it meant they would have to change from bringing their lattes to church and having their fun programs and consuming their Christian worship experience. But it was the desperate, it was the addicted, it was the broken that really responded. It was the hungry. And I figured, you know what? I'm going to feed the hungry. And the skeptics, I'm just going to leave those in God's hands.

The comfortably saved, God bless them. I'm not going to go after them. But the people that are hungry for Jesus, the people whose lives have gone smash and need the power of the Holy Spirit to rebuild them, the people that need to be set free, those are the people I'm going to focus on, and those are the people that come alive. And that's where you see the miracles, and that's where your face is confirmed. And that's where you see the kingdom of God coming in the least of these. And again, it begins to feel a lot like the gospel. Now, this church, the pursuit in the Seattle area, are you the lead pastors? there or are you just ministering there? How does that work? No, I've just, what happened is that God

called me to step down six years ago, which was a story in and of itself. But he led me to go in full time with this spirit-filled presbyterian ministry that taught me about the person work of the Holy Spirit because I needed training once I came back to the United States. A spirit-filled Presbyterian ministry. I didn't know they had those. What is that called? It's called Presbyterian Reform Ministries International, P-R-M-I, and it's P-R-M-I.org. And this is the organization that taught me about how to advance the kingdom of God through the personal work of the Holy Spirit. And my work has been taking their teaching, which is the best I've ever seen, and making it available and understandable for churches and small groups. org.

Right. And your website is dunamisbasics.org. Yes. Okay. Yeah. This is how to get a hold of that ministry and how to get a hold of me if you're interested in knowing more. Dunamisbasics.org.

Just a few seconds left in this segment. So you are seeing God work. You're seeing deliverance. You're seeing healing. Yes. You know, that's very encouraging, James, to know that that's happening in Seattle. I've got to tell you. Well, and it's interesting because, again, I think God takes some of the darkest and most unlikely people and places in order to do his most remarkable things, because again, he's showing off.

I was going to say this. There's no doubt about that. When you saw for X, you get God. We'll be right back talking to James Kearney. Welcome back talking to James Kearney, dunamisbasics.org. Okay, so what are you seeing right now in Seattle? Well, I'm seeing people gathering to pray, right? There are people that are saying about Seattle, you know what? A lot of people leaving Seattle, there's articles, Seattle is dying, but you know what? This is not the devil's city. This is God's city, and we are not going to leave, and we are not going to let go of the horns of the altar until God blesses it.

God has brought revival to Seattle in the past. In fact, if you saw the Jesus Revolution movie, you know, about Chuck Smith and Calvary chapel, all like that. What wasn't said is that there was actually revival before that that happened in Haydashbury in San Francisco and in Seattle, Washington that precluded that, that were before. Proceeded. Thank you. I just love talking with the writer. So they, yeah, so it was, in fact, St. Luke's, which is just down the street from me, there's a little Episcopal church where Father Dennis Bennett was exiled to in 1960 because he started speaking in Tungstown in California. He came up here, and that became a center of revival in Seattle in the main line denominations in the 60s. And he's doing it again.

He is, they're church leaders that are coming together and they're saying, we are desperate. Our city is so messed up. Us in California are sort of vying for who can create the, who can legislate the dumbest laws, right? And we are feeling, but we're no longer, in fact, we're not, I heard a sermon last week at the pursuit where the guy said, the spirit is no longer coming perhaps to fill us up, but maybe to make us fed up, right? And we actually ended the service with people singing, we're not going to take it. All right.

So because it is the group of people that are calling out to God and saying we are desperate, you have got to come and save us. And what is important about this is that it's happened before. If you look at your history, the United States has been on the brink again and again and again. And God has sent waves of His Holy Spirit. And many of these waves coming through the Presbyterian Church, first and second great awakening, Presbyterians were right in the middle of it. Jonathan Edwards, Cain Ridge, I mean, Cumberland Presbyterian Church.

It is a natural fit when Presbyterians get spirit-filled. right and it's happening again and if it doesn't we're sunk well we're seeing signs of it there's there is no doubt that where we are in this nation if the lord does not move and give us revival um it's over and i think that that's uh it's motivating some people to see uh how bad things are it's romans 828 all things work together for good these horrible things are being used by god to motivate people to pray uh to pray uh to act, to do things. We've got less than 60 seconds.

Just any final thoughts before we close today. Well, the final thought is, is one, don't give up hope because that's the devil's game. He wants to rob our hope so that we will be inactive. But he's a defeated foe. I mean, God is so much bigger than our problems. And we can boast in our sufferings, right? because suffering produces perseverance and perseverance character and character hope. And that hope doesn't disappoint us because the love of God has been poured down to our hearts.

So if you see yourself in an impossible situation, you see yourself in a situation where there's no possible win, just with the audacity of hope go, wow, God, what are you going to do now? You're going to have to really shine in order to overcome this set of circumstances in my family, in my body, in my community. Yeah. Well, James, I'm so sorry we're at a time, but people can find you at duneumus basics.org. We've just got to have you back so much more to talk about. The idea that you're seeing signs of revival in Seattle, that gives us all hope. My brother, thank you. God bless you. God bless you, Eric. Thank you so much. See you. Bye.