The Eric Metaxas Show - Roger Stone and Dinesh D'Souza

Episode Date: November 14, 2020

Roger Stone talks about the compelling evidence of voter fraud and how flipping two states will return Trump to the Oval Office for four more years; then, Dinesh D'Souza continues his analysis of where we are in the vote count.

there was a radio show called the Eric Mataxis show. It had an announcer named Todd, who was the handsomest announcer in the land. Eric was bitterly jealous of Todd's good looks. But there was nothing he could do. He just had to accept that cruel fate had made him as ugly as a toad. Here's Toad Face himself, Eric Mataxis. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the Eric Michiganah show. Right.

I'm schvitzing because my guest is, have you heard of the stone that the builders rejected? we didn't get that stone. That stone lives inside me. But we got Roger Stone. Roger, every time you come on here, I get happy. Thank you for coming on. And we just want to know why you're wearing a hat indoors. Go ahead.

It's called a bad hat day, bad hair day. Oh, I see, I see. Well, we're off to a good start today. That's great. No, listen. Listen. In all, honestly, I was up very late writing. and therefore I overslept this morning.

So you get to see one of my nicer pain of my hats. I love it. I love it. We have so much to cover what is happening in this country. As of now, as of today, Friday to 13th, November. What do you see happening in this election right now? Well, I wrote a very long piece at stonecoldtruth.com that posted very late on. At what?

Stone Coldtruth. dot com, which is the website that I operated prior to the FBI, raiding my house, shutting the site down, and then a court order that prohibited me from having any mass communications whatsoever. Unconstitutional, you say, yes, it was, but that doesn't stop the deep state. That's why we're in this battle, as you know. Exactly. So stone cold truth.com is back up, and I'm trying to be as a prodigious a writer as I can. and posting some videos there as well. So there's a very long piece on the path forward for President Trump.

Let me try to capsulize it, though. What we're seeing today is the largest example of mass hypnosis that I've ever seen in my life. It's a hoax. What you have is a pact between the mainstream media, the broadcast media, particularly television networks, cable news networks, and so on. their digital allies in Silicon Valley to enforce one narrative, to censor anyone who disagrees with the proposition that Joe Biden has been elected president and that he has been selected by a majority of those casting legal ballots, legal ballots. And that is not the case. If you are

audacious enough to say on television or cable that there's very substantial compelling, and in fact overwhelming evidence of voter fraud, you will immediately be silenced. You'll be banned for telling the truth. Now, this has been happening to some extent even on Fox News. Sean Hannity and obviously Tucker and I assume Laura Ingram have been saying this, but even they seem to me to have to be careful what they say. it appears that you have a decision made by corporate management to move Fox News to be more like CNN. In other words, less profitable, first and foremost, lower ratings secondarily, and, you know, kind of the same old, same old. If we want to be lied to, we can go to CBS or NBC.

Why don't we need to go to Fox? So all they're doing is creating an enormous void, a vaccine. into which other conservative media outlets are stepping in will step. The viewership at Newsmax is up very sharply. The viewership at OANN is up very shortly. Excuse me, the viewership on this program on YouTube is stunningly up from what it was a few weeks ago. We've never seen anything like it. It's our YouTube channel, the Eric Metaxia show.

And I think there's a revolution happening. and the only thing I didn't expect was that Fox would do something this foolish. You know, I'm delighted that your ratings are up. It's one of the reasons why I'm here. But secondarily, the danger, of course, is that your YouTube channel can be taken from you at any moment, any moment. See, I learned the hard way by running up a big followership on Twitter and on Facebook, on Instagram, that all that can disappear in an instant when the deep state decides that you're too dangerous, a truth teller,

and you've got to be silence. So I urge those who are building a following, who are out there telling the truth, to not only feature it on YouTube, but build it at your own platform where you can't be cut off at the knees, at least not at this point. Okay, that's the daily reminder to my viewers

that they should go to ericmetaxis.com, sign up for our newsletter, which is a weekly newsletter. We've been sending it more often recently because we've been having every other night prayer meetings with a certain group. I want to say the next one is Sunday at 8 p.m. Prayer is what is fueling the truth-telling.

Anybody doubts that. See me after class. Continue. Look, I'm living proof. The fact that I'm even sitting here demonstrates that prayer works, shows that God is almighty and that he can do anything and that God hates injustice and he hates lying.

I wouldn't be with you today if that was not the case. And I may be, I may or may not be the stone in the Kim Clement prophecy, the stone that saves the country, but I'm sure I'm trying. And I'm prepared to do whatever God directs me to do. And right now he directs me to do is to call BS on this entire fake news narrative. I've been in American politics for 40 years. I've examined the evidence. I've posted a link to the most comprehensive and compelling.

evidence. It's still in cold truth. No, folks, the evidence does exist. It is compelling. It will be compelling in court. The proper lawsuits are being brought at the state level. There's at least five of them. The president needs to flip two states to win this. He needs to demonstrate overwhelming and convincing fraud in just two states. If he loses in all five cases, which is unlikely, but possible, he has the right to appeal any of them to the U.S. Supreme Court. The U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled on a number of the underlying issues at hand. And consequently, I believe when the smoke clears to the great shock of the folks at CNN and MSNBC, Donald Trump will still be your president.

Okay, now that's an amazing statement. I agree with that. But for most people, that's an amazing statement. in the little time that we have, tell us why you're so convinced that's the case. Well, first of all, there is a process here. We're not done when ABC and the Associated Press say we are. The media does not choose who the president is. They have no legal right to declare anybody president.

Only electoral college can do that. And we have a long way to go between now and the electoral college meeting in the middle of December. The president has more than enough, arguments to overturn a number of these state elections and award the delegates, pardon me, the electors correctly as required by law, to the person who won the majority of the legal ballots cast. That's where we are. So hang on. This has got three more rounds to go. You have the courts, you have the state legislatures, which must send the ballots, the electors to the electoral College and the Electoral College itself. Nothing is over until we say it is. I've been saying for years

since I wrote my book, If You Can Keep It, that we are in an existential crisis as a nation similar to 1776 and 1860, and that we have to look back to the heroes of that time to be motivated in our own existential crisis to survive so that our way of life, self-government by the people, for the people, that that would survive. Many people haven't really taken that very seriously. They kind of shrug. I myself never dreamt it could get this bad. Where we are now today with the gaslighting

of the American public by CNN and the New York Times. And on and on, just as you've said, it is genuinely out of 1984. In other words, it's the sort of thing that, you know, sometimes there are people who lie and then there are people who double down on the lie so much that if they took a lie detector, they completely believe what they're saying. We're witnessing something now. As you said, it's a mass hypnosis of mass hysteria. Unlike anything, not even close to anything,

any of us in American life has witnessed. You have to go back to the Germans believing in their Messiah, Adolf Hitler, to see this kind of fervor in the wrong direction. We're going to be right back talking to Roger Stone. His website is stonecoldtruth.com. Folks, I'm talking to Roger Stone. Yes, he Rogers Stone. Why would you doubt that he would come on this program now that our ratings are exploding? His website, by the way, you need to know of it. It's stonecoldtruth.com. Our website is ericmetaxis.com. Roger, you were just saying that big tech is so in the bag for China. for the cultural Marxists in this country,

that they are, as you have experienced, deplatforming those of us with whom they disagree. And it really reminds me, and this is, you know, it's pathetic when you have to bring up Germany in the 30s, but there's just enough legality. In other words, if you look at what happened in Germany in the 30s,

it was not Iraq under Saddam Hussein. It was still, it still had the pretense, the veneer of legalism. There was just enough legality that the New York Times and Time magazine would send in their people and say, no, no, no, there's still courts and there's still order. And, you know, even in 1931, Hitler was hailed before a court because of the murder of some people. It really is where we are now. In other words, they are smart enough not to declare themselves dictators for life. They pretend that we still have democracy. But the reality is the moment. moment you step over line, boom, you go to jail or Twitter jail or whatever it is. You've experienced this. Do you believe that between now and when this president is declared the winner, well, I should say, what do you suppose will happen? Because when you're in a battle to the death, as we are with the people

on the other side of this, they seem to me at this point to be willing to do anything. I just never dreamt we would get here, and I kind of wonder what can happen from here. Well, if you read this book, playbook, by one of the key ringleaders in this, in this hoax that's being perpetrated on the American people, we know the last step of this. If the mass censorship and the wholesale theft of votes on the ground, all through computer programs and through the old-fashioned way of democratic machine vote stealing don't work. Well, then there's the third step of their plan, which is using Black Lives Matters and Intifah Udlums to beat and pillage and rape and burn and threaten their way into power.

They're withholding that step to see if it's necessary, but it's very clearly, based on their own comments, it's the next step for them. The real tragedy, of course, is that the president has. four years to bring antitrust action against all these social media platforms. And his attorney generals, his attorney general Jeff Sessions, his attorney general, his acting attorney general, Rod Rosenstein, a man who belongs in prison based on his lies to Congress and his seditious activities in the Russian collusion hoax. And then lastly, Bill Barr have done nothing, nothing. That's why we're in this situation today.

really pathetic. We have to hope that in a second term, the president will finally order his Justice Department to enforce the antitrust laws and end the monopolistic practices of the YouTube's and the Facebooks and the Twitters and the Instagrams and the others who are deeply complicit in this effort to foist a phony election result on the American people. It's not just, as I say, the old-fashioned Democratic big city style of stealing votes, in other words, phony absentee votes, monkeying with the mail-in voting, ballot harvesting, people voting multiple times, people who aren't registered voting, people who are dead voting, people who are voting, as I say, in the name of others. Those are all standard, but you have bigger, even more

odious evidence of massive manipulation of the vote through the hammer program utilized by the U.S. government, specifically a subset of that called scorecard. There's now massive evidence that the Dominion voting machines that are used in at least seven states were manipulated. So this is a big picture thing. I actually saw Carl Rove. I mean, it always reminds me of a wax pair that sat too long on the radiator, say the other night that there couldn't be voter fraud this extensive. It would take to immense a conspiracy. Wake up, Carl, I just outlined it for you. Take a look at the hammer.

Take a look at Dominion. Yes, there's the mass manipulation of votes. If you want to know whether Carl Rove is more like Bush 41 than Donald Trump, that says it all. I mean, it's an unbelievable thing that he could be that naive. It's actually scary to me at this point. You know, what is happening? When do you think the last time Carl did a sit-up was? When would that be?

That's uncalled for you, claim to be a Christian. Now, you stop that. Now, look, I want to... That's just teasing. The Bible says thou shalt not tease. I didn't see that one. Go ahead. I do nothing but tease.

That's my love language. I got to tell you, seriously, Roger, the key to me right now, and this is what everybody has to be tuned in for, is that the radical cultural marries, Marxists left, like the national socialists. They will use democracy until they have no other options. In other words, if they can fool us into thinking that they're using a democratic process in order to seize undemocratic power, they will do that. And then the moment that fails,

they go to Plan B, Antifa take to the streets. The reason I have the Nazis on my brain, other than the fact that I wrote a big book on the Nazis, which came out 10 years ago now. It's the playbook, and it happens over and over again. We have people, for example, like Christian Amunpur, saying something for which she should be fired. I don't care if she said it on CNN, but she compared Trump to Hitler and Kristallnacht. It's just one of the most grievous sick things to say. but people are willing to pretend that they're against authoritarianism when they themselves are trafficking in authoritarianism. That's what's so ugly.

They pretend to be for democracy. And then the moment it fails, they get violent. Obviously, the Nazis had this plan. It's why Hitler was, he was on trial in 1931 before he became chancellor. And he kept saying, we're peaceful, we're peaceful. But then there was something that Gebelz had written, a pamphlet that basically says, yes, we will be peaceful and we will use democracy and on and on and on. But that's only the ends, that's only so that we can get to where we want to go,

which is to use our fists to bring about revolution. And by the way, if we need to use our fists, the goal is revolution. The goal is not playing patty cake with von Poppin or any of those folks. We mean to crush democracy using democracy itself if we can fool people and to think that that's what we're doing. That's what I see happening. Well, we've seen this from the beginning. In fact, the left always consistently accuses us of exactly that which they are doing. Let's take Russian collusion. The only known Russian collusion in the 2016 election was Hillary Clinton getting the assistance of Russian intelligence to write the phony steel dossier, which she paid for by money laundering funds through her law firm, which was used as the entire and sole basis for the launching of a fraudulent investigation with the purposes of removing the president.

There's your rushing collusion. The Democrats and the left always accuse us of what they're going to do. For example, the proud boys are going to be harassing and intimidating and suppressing the vote across the country at polling places on election day. Really, where did that happen? That didn't happen anywhere. If there was any voter suppression going on, it was on behalf of the Democrats, the lingering threat that if we don't like the results of the election, we're going to burn America down, that's not coming from the right. That's not coming from Christians or conservatives or Republicans. That's coming from the radical left in TFA and BLM. Why should we take them serious? They've already demonstrated that they have the funding, the organization,

the structure, the bail money to do exactly that. They've already done it in a number of American cities. And don't forget the rented bicycles. By the way, I want to tell you, you something. This weekend in Washington, D.C., there's going to be a massive, massive gathering of pro-Trump people, and BLM and Antifa are planning to cause trouble. I hope people listening to this will pray for peace because it's, I think it may get ugly in D.C. this weekend, and we may see some things that we didn't want to see in America. Well, I think it's very, very important, and I write this today at Stone Cold Truth, that mobilization, large numbers across the country are vital in terms to peacefully protest what's going on. If you think about it during the media blackout in the

closing days of the campaign, one of the ways that Trump kind of jumped the shark and got out of that cul-de-sac was through his rallies that had massive, massive attendance. It's very tough to say Trump has no chance in Michigan when 50,000 people are greenish. him on the ground in Michigan. In other words, disproving this entire hoax in which Joe Biden is locked down in his basement. He is hailed by crowds of hundreds, if that. They bring him out every once in a while just to prove that he's alive. There's no evidence of intensity, but we keep seeing polls that show him, oh, ABC says he's up 17 in Wisconsin.

See, that's part of the sci-off. I knew this wouldn't be enough time. apologies to you, Roger. We've got to get you on next week. There is so much more. In our next segment, Dinesh D'Souza will be weighing in. Folks, stay tuned. Please go to stonecoldtruth.com. Roger, thank you. Thank you. And God bless you. Beyond the sea, somewhere waiting for me. Folks, welcome back. As I warned you, we would have amazing guests. We got Dinesh D'Souza back today. Before we ask him where he thinks we are, I want to remind you, folks, if you go to mypillow.com, whatever you do, don't use any of the codes you see on TV.

Use the code Eric. I can't tell you why. But if you use the code Eric at My Pillow, you'll get the most comfortable discount you've ever seen or your money back. Dinesh DeSuzza, welcome. Hey, Gary, great to be on the show. Listen, there was so much left on said yesterday, so I'm glad that you can be here. A lot has happened overnight. Where do you think we are? What strikes you as the most important developments and what do you see for the near future? Well, I think the big question for Trump is whether or not there is persuasive legal evidence of shenanigans.

And I don't mean episodic shenanigans, a dead guy here or a dead guy there who mysteriously showed up at the polls. but systematic evidence that shows that could make a difference, particularly in the key states. I'm thinking here specifically at Pennsylvania. There are statistical anomalies. I would even say statistical impossibilities. But these need to point to some, you need to be able to say how these occurred. And I think that's the big question for the Trump legal team. Okay, but how do you, why do you need to prove this?

In other words, if you go into a judge and you say something, I'm just making this up, but, you know, 104% of the registered voters voted, is that not enough for the judge to say, to rule something, to rule somehow, or can they only rule narrowly? Do you have to lead them exactly by the dots? No, it's true.

that a judge could then say that that is prima facie evidence of fraud. Now, the judge could then say, well, that fraud is at the 4% level. It's 4% over the number of people who could have voted. And maybe the difference in the state is much bigger than 4%. Now, that's one possibility. The other thing to remember, temperamentally, judges tend to prefer the narrow road to the wide road. So what I mean by that is that if you go to a judge in Pennsylvania and say, we're giving you two choices.

Throw out all the votes in Pennsylvania and let's have a revote, option A or B, let's look at the way in which a judge in Pennsylvania extended the balloting for three days in flat contravention of state law. So those ballots that came in after 8 p.m. and were counted, those ballots are invalid. A judge is more likely temperamentally to go, yeah, you know what, that's kind of a clean hit. But I thought that was already ruled yesterday. I thought that that was ruled yesterday in Pennsylvania. Actually, no. The decision yesterday was about the Secretary of State extending the deadline, but those votes have still been segregated and they've still been counted

and they have not been ruled invalid yet. In fact, that was why Alito sent a note demanding that the votes be kept separate, pending a potential Supreme Court decision that says those ballots cannot be included. But doesn't it seem reasonable to think that they would not be included? I think it does. I think that's kind of probably to me the cleanest win for Trump on that. Now, I don't know if those votes are sufficient by themselves to give them the state of Pennsylvania. I've heard kind of conflicting testimony on that point.

Trump would need to win Pennsylvania and something else. If he won Arizona and then won Pennsylvania, he's still the president. But winning, even if he won Pennsylvania by itself, he would still need some more electoral votes to put him over the top. Michigan, Wisconsin, other states seem still to be in play. We heard, I don't know if it was this morning or last night, about some things that went on in Detroit. We keep hearing about these Dominion voting machines. I guess it was just the news John Solomon reported late last night that the folks who were hired to run the Dominion voting machines in Detroit,

were the people paying for that were very closely connected to, I don't know if it's the mayor of Detroit, but who is currently in jail. In other words, we're talking about a corrupt, democratic, big machine in that city, which is no surprise. But there seems to be a lot of that kind of thing that we're hearing every day. It doesn't seem silly. it seems like there's probably something there. No, the guy who has the patent on those Dominion machines

is apparently an Antifa guy, and his postings are all over the internet. So this is a guy who's not just a leftist, but he's a guy who's sort of on the far left, and Antifa's sort of sympathizer. That's one point. I saw Sidney Powell, General Flynn's attorney, post today, that it appears that in Michigan they did the same data dump multiple times. In other words, the same votes.

were submitted more than once to be counted again and again and again. And this was a 70% 70 to 30 benefit to Biden. So imagine if that's the case, you can show that the same 100,000 votes distributed 70 for 30 for Biden were submitted multiple times and counted multiple times. I mean, that would be prima facie evidence of fraud. Well, Dinesh, I mean, I think we have to acknowledge Sidney Powell is not some kooky person.

Sydney Powell is a profoundly sober person, a legal genius. For her to say this, I have to say, that's rather big news to me. I had not heard that before. Actually, forgive me, we're going to go to a break. Folks, I'm talking to Dinesh D'Souza in hour two. I get to have a long conversation with his daughter about her brand new book. It's called The Choice. It's about abortion.

Looking forward to that. Don't go away. Heartbeat too, I can tell you feeling me. You can feel my heartbeat too. I can see you feeling me. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking again today with Dinesh D'Souza. Dinesh, you mentioned Sidney Powell, whom I think of as being as serious a person when it comes to these kinds of issues as is out there.

No conspiracy theorist, no black marks in her book. When she makes this claim, she puts this. out there that in a state like Michigan, which was definitely going for Trump on the evening of the vote, and then suddenly seems to have flipped over, she makes the claim that in that state, some votes were submitted several times. She's not the kind of person that I would lightly doubt on something like that. I mean, do you know more about that? Well, here's the other thing, And that is that these kinds of things are occurring all over the place. In Pennsylvania, for example, I saw a data analysis by a very smart guy showing that the Trump

votes were running about 7% ahead of the other Republicans on the down ballot. And this was consistent throughout the election day. And then you remember the counting stopped and it was resumed later. And then suddenly the pattern changed. The other Republicans continued to hold forth. They continued their pattern, but Trump took a nose dive. And this would almost be as if tens of thousands of Republican voters suddenly stop voting at the presidential level. They didn't vote for Trump, or they maybe voted for Biden, but they voted Republican down the ticket.

Now, think of how bizarre that is, that not all the Republicans took a nose dive, but only Trump, almost as if the fix was in, but the fix was in only at the presidential level. Well, this leads me to another question. We all talk about how the counting stopped. Yesterday, I sent out a tweet that for me, the big red flag, in other words, for people who are not in the weeds and who are not political prognosticators, we all saw, what seemed to me, six swing states, roughly simultaneously on election night, stopped counting. And then when they began counting again or when they decided to come back, suddenly the votes had shifted dramatically in favor of Biden. Now, what am I missing there? And why would a state,

why would one state, any state, declared that they're going to stop counting? And then the second question is, how is it possible that six swing states would simultaneously make that call? I have no answer to that. There is no answer to that. Now, there is a counter argument that should be considered, and that is the Democrats would say, look, it is not all that odd. that the later votes that were counted sort of post-election day went overwhelmingly for Biden because we Democrats voted by mail. The Republicans all showed up on election day, so the bulk of their votes were sort of right there to be counted. But as the mail-in ballots were counted, it is not peculiar that Biden would have the majority of those.

But here's my point. Why would the pattern in the swing states and the swing states alone differ from the patterns around the country? because there were mail-in ballots in the other states, too. It wasn't that only the swing states had mail-in-balloting. There was mail-in-validing in other places as well. But let's say you give them that, okay? I understand that. That's at least plausible.

We should take it into account. But my question or the two questions are still, why was the counting stopped? I'm not really familiar with other instances in past elections. Maybe I didn't notice it. But why suddenly would counting stop? What's the point of that, number one? Number two, why would that happen,

simultaneously in six swing states. It looks like a plan, perhaps a conspiracy, who gave the signal. That's baffling to me. And I think that that's the big red flag. Every American says, I don't understand. Can somebody explain to me why votes were stopped, why counting was stopped, and why this happened in only those states? What was going on? What do you say? So there is no good reason for that. And I think, in fact, what makes things really chilling is the possibility that election night was nothing more than an information collecting mechanism to decide how many Biden votes are really needed. Because if you remember back to election night 2016, I remember I was sort of exhilarated because Trump was leading Biden by 50,000 votes.

Now, on this election night, four years later, Trump-Hen Hillary, I know. Yeah, Trump was leading by 600,000 votes. So it's almost as if the post-vote counters needed that number because they needed to know how many votes they needed to get. If they went for just 50,000 and they miscalculated, Trump would still win by 550,000 votes. They needed to know how many votes we need to put on the board in order to change the outcome. Remember the Philadelphia, I'm sorry, the Pennsylvania's attorney general saying before the count, before the election, there is no way. that Trump is going to win Pennsylvania. He literally made that as a,

and I remember what a strange thing for the man in charge of overseeing the election process to say in a swing state that there is no way that Trump can win Pennsylvania, but he said it, and it's out there. And of course, it came true, but it came true through this mysterious process of day one counting Trump way in the lead, and then voila, here are all the buckets of votes,

and, gee, we won after all. I'm just a guest that we're in the United States of America and this is happening. You've been warning about it for years. I've been warning about it in my own way. This has been the drift. And until something becomes as dramatic as this has come, many people don't wake up. They think, well, whatever, they shrug. This is unbelievable to me.

What you just said then is that you do believe that, it is telling that six swing states stopped voting, that this is not something, because people on the left just saying, shut up, shrug it off, you're making this up. I think to myself, explain to me why I'm making it up, explain to me why that is not bizarre. You're agreeing that it was bizarre.

Yes, I'm very disturbed by a trend throughout the culture of the left and the Democrats feeling, sort of no desire to take seriously arguments, on the other side, no consideration of valid points that are being made. And Joe Biden himself, you think that if Joe Biden wanted to assure the legitimacy of his victory, he'd be the first one saying, hey, listen, you know, I won fair and square. If there's any question here, let's take a hard look. Let's check out these instances because ultimately the winner has an interest in establishing that the process was fair. You know, if somebody said, for example, to LeBron James,

Hey, listen, every time you go for the basket, the net drop six inches, he'd be the one the most outrage. He'd go, no, my competence as a player depends on the idea. Come take a look. I'm playing by the same rules as everybody else. But the eerie silence from the Democrats, it's almost like the winners declaring, we won, it's over, we can all go home now. But you only validate a fair process when you're able to convince the losing side that it was a fair race. That's exactly it. Folks, we'll be right back with Dinesh D'Souza, don't go away.

And let me remind you, sign up, Eric Mataxis.com, to get our weekly newsletter, ericmataxis.com. Thank you. Folks, I'm back with Dinesh D'Souza. The question, of course, Denech is, what is at stake? This is not 1980 or 1984. What is at stake? You've written a book where you lay out where we,

are going if the Dems win this election and continue to pull us towards socialism. Tell us what the stakes are. Well, I think that if Biden wins, we are going to be moving toward the United States of socialism. The pace or the degree, the speed can be debated. But that we will be moving in that direction, I think, is incontestable. And by socialism here, I don't just mean economic confiscation. If you read Marx, you think about socialism just in terms of money, the economic basis of society. But socialism today also refers to the attack on civil liberties, the attempt to impose a kind of conformity across the whole society. And that is really, I think, what is perhaps even more chilling. And it's not even some distant faraway prospect, because these are things that we can see the beginnings of happening now.

Look, there's no question. The title of your book is the United States of socialism. We've had you on to talk about it and I recommend it. But I've got to ask you, is it not plausible that China meddled in this election that China desperately would wish Biden to win? Putin couldn't have cared less whether Trump won. But in this case, it seems to me that China, who have no principles other than power, that they would have done anything they could, whether electronically or through hacking, that they would have done anything they could to help Biden win so that they could have their way with the Biden presidency. Without a doubt. And the Chinese interest is not only ideological, but also personal. They've got longstanding financial dealings with the Biden family. It may be an exaggeration to say that they consider Biden sort of bought and paid for, but there's no question that they have enriched members of the Biden family to considerable degrees over the years. The other factor very closely related, radical Islamic intervention in American politics. This is a theme in our

movie Trump card where we talk about the ways in which countries like Iran use intermediaries like Qatar to funnel large amounts of money to American think tanks, to American media institutions, to American civic groups, and also to American political candidates. They want to have the Ramadan on prayer in the White House? You know, I just don't want to believe that we have to fight these kinds of filthy battles. But it seems to me that until we get to heaven on this side of the veil, we do have to fight these battles. Some people would like to shrug these things off as conspiracy theories.

But the more time passes, the more I'm convinced that precisely what you have said and what others have been saying is happening. and we're fools not to think that the players on the other side of this, whether radical Islamists or Chinese communists, wouldn't do anything in everything. They've murdered their own people. Why wouldn't they do this? Well, most bad things that involve multiple people

aren't conspiracy theories, but actual conspiracies. Now, if you look, for example, at the situation that happened with Russia collusion and the attempt to frame both Michael Flynn and Trump, there are two possibilities. either Strock and Page and Coney and Coney and Brennan and Clapper, all those guys went off on independent expeditions to do surveillance and so on, or somebody gave them the order. In other words, or there was a conspiracy.

Somebody coordinated and directed that effort. I suspect the latter is true. This was a case where Hillary may have inaugurated the investigation, and Obama gave the order. So that would take it out of the realm of a conspiracy theory, and make it a conspiracy. And there we have it. Dinesh, always a joy to have you on this program.

Thank you for your time. In hour two, I have the joy of a lovely conversation with a lovely young woman, your daughter, Danielle, about her brand new book, The Choice. Thanks, folks for listening, and thanks again, Dinesh. My pleasure.