The Eric Metaxas Show - Rosaria Buttefield

Episode Date: September 22, 2023

Rosaria Buttefield returns with more from her book: ''Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age"

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Metaxus show. I shouldn't tell you this, but Eric hired someone who sounds just like him to host today's show. But since I'm the announcer, they told me, so I'm telling you, don't be fooled. The real Eric's in jail.

Hey there, folks. Welcome to the show. It's the Erk Metaxis show. Some people think it's named after me. That's not true. It's just a coincidence. My name's Eric Metaxis. And I just happen to have the same name as the Eric Mataxis show.

Isn't that great? It's kind of miraculous, really, when you think what are the odds of that? On this program, I get to talk to really interesting people. For example, today, I get to talk for the second time to Rosaria Butterfield, second time in the last couple of weeks, because she has a bookout brand. new book called Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age. Rosaria Butterfield. Welcome back. Hey, thank you so much, Eric. It's great to be here with you, as always. Well, it's fun to talk to you. I want to reprise your story very briefly, just so people can

kind of track, or maybe you can reprise it briefly, and then we can talk about, you know, because your story relates to the book that we're going to discuss. It does, definitely. So I came to Christ while writing a book on the religious right from the perspective of a lesbian feminist activist professor. And in the process, I had been for about a decade or so in serially monogamous lesbian relationships. And I was a professor at Syracuse University in English and queer theory and feminist studies. And in the process of trying to figure out basically why people like.

you hated people like me. It was a very simple question. My tenure book was written so I could do this. I met a wonderful neighbor and pastor, Ken Smith and his wife Floyd, and they shared the gospel with me, the real gospel with me, not the one that's bandied about today. It was the real gospel. It was the gospel of hope. And in probably 500 meals at his house and reading through the Bible seven times and really trying to understand this from your point of view, I learned something. And that was that Jesus is real and risen and true. And the resurrection is powerful in the lives of Christians. And that was going to be true whether I believed it or not.

It was not some kind of my truth, your truth. And so after two years of study, I abandoned the book. I committed my life to Jesus. And then I wondered, okay, Lord, what are you going to do with my persistent? lesbian feelings. Well, what, you know, I'm tenured in sin. Did you notice? How is this going to work out? And I recorded how it all worked out in a couple of books. The first is the secret thoughts of an unlikely convert, and we can dip into that. But the reason that I am so passionate about the things that I've written in this book is I understand them from the other side. I have spent a quarter

century, studying all of the things I talked about in this book from every perspective that you could have, from the LGBTQ plus perspective, from the faithful church's perspective, from the grieving parents' perspective. And in the process, I have come up with what I believe are three reasons why the church is in trouble that has produced five lies that the world has believed for a while. I once believed all of them wholesale and that now the church is adopting a some level of truth. And hence the book, Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age. Okay. And I want to a couple things. First of all, I want to say that your previous book is The Secret Thoughts of an unlikely convert where you tell your story.

You were on this program a few years ago talking about that. And it really is, it's an extraordinary story. and I love these kinds of stories because we live in a world that pretends that these stories don't exist. Right. That if somebody has a story like that, the mainstream media and even a lot of the conservative media, their attitude is they, excuse me, shut up. We don't want to hear from you. That kind of, it kind of bucks the narrative that we're pushing. Right.

And the person is doing it too. Well, yes. And so I have always gone out of my way when I find a story. like yours. I thought people need to know this story. This is amazing. It gives people hope and it gives people different perspective. It's beautiful and extraordinary. And so I want to recommend to my audience that they look you up and that they read not just the new book, Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age, but the previous book, The Secret Thoughts of an Unlakely convert, because it's beautiful and people need to know, that there is hope, that this is real and true.

You said a moment ago that you were writing a book, and this is, it's such a glorious thing, that here you are trying to write a book on the quote unquote Christian right to figure out why these people hate me, a lesbian. And of course, part of your discovery is that, oh, they don't hate me. Why have I bought the lie that they hate me?

I was in L.A. for this film shoot thing a couple months ago. And it's kind of funny. There was this very angry lesbian on the set briefly. And she asked me some questions. And it was so clear that she thought, I actually said, I was in a bad mood that day. So I was not in the mood for her nonsense. And when she said something to me, I said, so you think like I want to burn you as a witch? Is that the idea?

because she seemed to actually believe that if I could, that I would use, you know, political power or whatever it is to harm people. I just thought these folks are living in the Middle Ages. They don't have a realistic perspective of how people who love Jesus think about this. All right. I'm going to give you some pushback because actually these people are living in the post of Bergerfeld world. So secret thoughts of an unlikely convert was written 10 years ago. And I think it's still useful, but I've written some books between then and now. And this is part of the issue that I am concerned about because in a post-Abergafel world, right,

the Aburgafel was the 2015 Supreme Court case that legalized gay marriage in all 50 states. It also included a dignitary harm clause, which means it redefined harm. Harm no longer simply means I lost my job or, hey, I'm a lesbian and you didn't sell me a pizza, Eric. That was really, you know, harmful. It means that you harmed my dignity. And then add to that the Bosok case in 2020 that added LGBTQ civil rights to the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which changed Title IX, which is why you've got all kinds of stuff going on right now with transgenderism. And you see a real change. This is not the Middle Ages.

This is post-Abergapel. 20 years ago, you heard people like me saying, look, I'm a letter. lesbian leave, or not 20 years ago, how about 30 years ago, leave consenting adults alone. You haven't heard that in decades because the allies of the gay rights movement are now the groomers of the transgender moment. We're not talking about consenting adults. We're talking about trans kids. And that is a category that doesn't exist.

Well, all I meant just to clarify my point, in other words, I agree with everything you just said. but as I was speaking to this woman, it seemed clear that she believed that if I could, I would harm her, that I hated her and that she was my enemy. And I thought to myself, on no level is that true. Now, that could have been true in the past of some people. There are always crazy people. There are always people who identify as Christians who do not understand the Christian

and message toward those with whom we did. You know, so on and on and on. But the point is I realize this woman, and we see this on the left in general today, not just in the LGBTQ Disney Plus world, but this idea that they know something that's not true. And what do they know? That if you could, you would hurt them. You hate them.

And I thought at least let's establish that you're totally wrong about that. We may disagree on stuff, but this lie that you have bought, and the reason I bring this up, Rosaria, is because that lie animates people to action. In other words, some of them really feel fear or anger. They have been told and believe that those people would cut my head off if they could. And of course, the irony, which is what you're talking about, is that just the opposite is true, that those people, people now are in fact animated, perhaps by these confused ideas, by these hatreds to want to harm people who disagree with them. And they're being told, yes, you need to do that. We're going to a break. We've got a whole hour here with Rosaria Butterfield. The new book is five lies of our

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Well, I wanted to write this book because I was constantly being bombarded by questions from moms and grandmas. Basically, what is going on in our world? If Christ is not divided, why is the church divided? why does it feel like I'm living at the ground zero of the Tower of Babel? And why can't we major on the majors anymore? Why can't we even agree about what the majors are? And so those are good questions. Those are basic faith in life and reason questions,

which I is a former professor love. And so I sat down and I came up with three reasons and five lies. And the three reasons are simply this. The first is, you know, we have failed to recognize that the C, of the gospel are in the garden. You don't have a savior apart from the creation ordinance. You are made in the image of God as a man or as a woman. You are not made in the image of God as a trans activist or as a lesbian or as anything else because image bearing has to do with growing in the knowledge and the righteousness and the holiness of God. It's reflecting God.

it has nothing to do with growing in the world the flesh and the devil. So the first is seeds of the gospel are in the garden. The second reason was people didn't seem to know what time it was. They didn't seem to know what it means to live in a post-the-Bergothel world, as we talked about in the last segment of the show. And they didn't seem to understand the pressures, real pressures, that were coming and pushing the church. And they also weren't watching how broad evangelicalism was trying to make peace with those.

wanted to be a soft presence at the very time that they needed to learn how to go to war. And then the third reason was that part of being a soft presence here in Sodom, as it were, is failing to actually love your enemies, do what Pastor Ken Smith did for me, said, I can accept you as a lesbian, but I don't approve of you, and shared the truth of the scriptures. And instead, the broad evangelical church agreeing with the world just said, hey, well, love is love. Let's all be friends. Let's just be friends.

What can we learn from you? What can I learn from my neighbors who are living in sin? Now, is there common grace? Of course there is. But to suggest that you can learn anything theological or about growing in Christ from your lesbian neighbors, that's a little bit dubious. And that unleashed five lies. The lies are so familiar that it almost feels. feels like looking under our eyelids.

The first is that... Oh, that was a great line. Did you come up with that? I've never heard that one before. Oh, I did. I did. Well, you know, Eric, this is the problem of having a PhD in English. You're like, you can't help it.

Well, no, but that's, that's, I think you're putting the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the English is because God gave you the talent to think that way. It's like, looking under our eyelids, very nicely put. I want to remember that. maybe I'll steal it. But you, part of, I just want to say this, part of the lie that I see, I don't know if you get into this in the book, but it's kind of like when you're talking about critical race theory, people say like, well, there's this pain.

And as a Christian, I need to hear that pain. I need to hear those stories, whatever. And to some extent, that's true, to some extent, but it can very easily. quickly move over into somehow affirming a lie, affirming the ideology of victimhood, the ideology of the ideology of the, and that is where the church, to my mind, has failed utterly, not understanding how quickly hearing people's stories of pain is buying into a satanic lie, actually. And so that hearing the stories of pain is using Christians well-meaning empathy and love,

using that to lure them over into buying a lie, which is what a lot of mainstream evangelicalism has done. Absolutely. And that happens in part because we fail to go the next step. And that is to remember that God says that, you know, let's let God be true and every man be a liar. In other words, when we tell our stories, it is riddled with total depravity and with our original sin, and it can't be the last word. But the five lies are homosexuality is normal, pagan spirituality is kind, feminism is good for the church in the world, transgenderism is a normal gender variant,

and modesty is an outdated value harmful to women. And so what I do in the book is simply unpack all of those lives, lies, and I try to do so with sincere humility. I mean, folks, I was a gay rights activist. I wrote policy and spoke before the New York legislature. This is the world I helped create. I believed all these lies, and even as a Christian, I clung to a lot of them. So the blood's on my hands. I'm not, you might not want to hear from me because the blood is still on my hands. But these lies have infected the world and now the church, and grownups need to enter the room and say, it stops right here. And I say this as somebody who's been speaking to school board meetings

on the subject of transgenderism and parents' rights, which is similar, I imagine, to doing rounds at a psych ward during a full moon. So grownups really need to show up. Well, I think we have to say, there's a demonic element here. There are people that are so broken that they've allowed demonic influences into their lives. And when you don't want to talk about that, folks, it's like saying, well, we don't do math or science here. Let's stick to other stuff. This is part of reality. And if you claim to be some kind of Christian and don't understand that there is a genuine spiritual reality, that's too medieval for you, you're not actually a Christian.

You're very confused. And we need to understand that as a reality. And when what we're dealing with in the culture right now, with the trans madness, most people, you don't even need to be a Christian. You look around and you go like, there's something so off here. This is not normal off. This is like the delusion of crowds following Adolf Hitler. Something is at play here that is not normal trouble.

This is somehow spiritually very dark. And to add to that, we can really see it because unbelievers are willing to be more brave, forthright, honest, and simply deal in reality than broad evangelicals right now. So you have Tabastock, the largest quote-unquote pediatric gender affirming clinic in the world that has been shut down. That's in the UK. How was it shut down? Well, internal activists, that's LGBTQ.

plus, blah, blah, blah, activists said, this is nuts. You have wonderful scholars like Abigail Schreier, who does not in any way claim the Christian faith, who says, look, this is doing irreversible damage, and it is a social delusion. And then when asked, what should we do about it? How do you help your child? She says, well, get them out of the government schools.

You know, and meanwhile, you know, broad evangelicalism is busy holding up a banner that says, love don't leave, which is madness. So I think we see here the world rebuking broad evangelicalism very clearly. But either way, Christians are called to be people of courage. Christians are called to be people of love. The gospel frees you from the fear of man, including the mob of really, really, really, you know, trans groomers out there. Personally, I don't think this movement would have gained any ground at all if you didn't have allies on either side.

I think it would have stayed a very minor kind of marginal conversation in American culture. It really required people to somehow capture this as a social good, as a moral good. Last time I spoke to the school board, I was rebuked. I was rebuked actually for being white, articulate, and educated. That was interesting. But I was also rebuked for being a bully. And why was I a bully? Well, because my Christian faith is actually an exclusive faith.

It is not inclusive. It doesn't include anything that feels good. Well, look, and again, these are all, and this is why we have to be wise as serpents, not wise as doves. Many in the evangelical church get that run. They think I'm supposed to be wise as a dove. No, doves are not wise at all. all. You have to understand when people are lying to you, when they're using words against you,

when they're twisting words. This is demonic stuff, folks. And this is what, when people do it and you go along with it, you're casting your pearls before swine. You're being disobedient to God's command that you be wise as serpents, that you understand what you're dealing with. You understand where we are and what time it is. And that we're in an ideological war with very, very dark forces. Obviously, in my book letter to the American Church. I try to speak to people who don't. They seem to think like, it's 1985. Tip O'Neill is the face of the Democratic Party. And you think, well, look, that would be nice. But you don't get credit for believing that because that's not true. We're living in a time where we've got to see what is happening and live into that, lean into that. We're talking

to Rosaria Butterfield, the new book Five Lies of our anti-Christian age. We'll be right back. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain. I'm often asked that question just the other night. I was asked that question. Well, the owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal. That's right, designed to heal. And I agree with them. And the doctors who formulated Relief Factor for them selected the four best ingredients,

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So I want to deal with, I think the first one you said was one of the lies is that homosexuality is normal. And once again, we have to define our terms. My friend Dennis Prager was attacked recently because he said something similar to this, but exactly the opposite. But people often don't care. They just see you're the enemy,

so they're going to attack you. He said, which is true, that in the history of the world, homosexuality is normative. Like sin is normative. If you look before you get to the Bible and to the laws of the Israelites and stuff like, all pagan cultures, ancient cultures,

homosexuality was not. normal. It is only when you introduce God that you realize, aha, no, this is not a good thing. So when you say homosexuality is normal, I mean something a little different. You mean it in a different way. And I just want to be clear about that. I also want to be clear about what Dennis Prager was saying because people wrongly said that he's saying it's normal. That is a complete lie and a misrepresentation of what he has said for decades. But go ahead. Yeah, yeah, because you're absolutely right. I mean, sin goes downward and outward.

And so it does have a way of leveling the playing field. I'm talking about post-19th century modern man sees homosexuality as a normal category of personhood, a sense of humanity, a sense of who I am ontologically, what is my authentic self, my identity. And that is a lie. Your identity is in being an image bear of a holy God. That means that you have an identity as being an image bearer and either a man or a woman. That is your identity. This idea that has crept into the church is that if your quote-unquote sexual orientation,

which is a 19th century Freudian invention, it's about 150 years old, we act like it's as old as Adam, right? But if you believe that that is your identity, then that's a kind of flyover zone. I can't repent of my identity. I can't repent of my feelings. This is who I am. But in reality, homosexuality, like any other plethora of sin, is maybe not who you are,

but it may be how you feel. This whole idea of sexual orientation being who you are, homosexual orientation that is, led to another really ridiculous thing with the evangelical churches believed, and that's that all sin is equal. that it's equally as sinful to sin in a heterosexual way as it is to sin in a homosexual way. That is theologically not true.

As a heterosexual, when you sin sexually, you are sinning against God's command, but you are not sinning against God's pattern. But homosexual sin is always a sin against God's pattern and his purpose. And that is exactly why you need the gospel, the gospel teaches you to hate your sin without hating yourself. And people who say, well, my feelings aren't sinful, don't understand the words of Jesus. Because Jesus said that your lust is actually adultery, that your feelings are terribly sinful. And they can change, and they do change, because we serve a resurrected Savior.

Now, are you lobotomized? I don't know. I haven't been. but you fight the good fight and in sanctification you improve. It doesn't happen easily, but it does happen. And we live in a world that says, oh, no, no, the perverted should norm the true. And never in the history of Western culture have you seen that. You know, we are Christians, we don't throw people away.

We understand that original sin is going to affect people in terms of their morals and in terms of their physical reality. And so we want to help and come alongside and bless and take care of people. But what we don't want to do is say, your problem, I can see, your problem is really struggling, it's really troubling you. Why don't we pretend your problem isn't a problem? And let it re-norm the norm. Actually, that's it.

That is a big trend in modern culture. I mean, we were talking the other day by John Federman, dressing like a slob. And then everybody says like, well, let's all dress like slabs so he doesn't feel bad, which is kind of like when you say, you know what, there are some kids here that don't have fathers. So let's never refer to the normal idea of a mother and a father. Or we don't want to hurt the feelings of a single mother. So we don't want to talk about the idea of married couples or whatever.

And there's an instinct. there that is good, that we care about people's feelings. That that's good. But then we take it too far and we let the devil get a hold of it. And the devil has gotten a hold of this one big time. And that's exactly what you're talking about with regard to people's sexual feelings. And then we can't help solve the problem. See, that's the other thing. Then we become, you know, we sin infantilizes people. There's no reason for Christians to act like two-year-olds. When you are dealing with a gender-anxious child, The medical analog to that is anorexia. Well, you would never tell your anorexic daughter,

yes, you would never affirm her fatness. That would be ridiculous. Nor would you think that all she needs is a sticker and a parade. That would be, you know, barbaric. And yet that's what you see whole sections of the world and even the evangelical church doing around transgenderism, Preston Sprinkle, who is, I think, a heretic, but one of the lead voices in evangelicalism on transgenderism

dedicates his God-forsaken book embodied to the they who wore a transgender flag at the last re-voice conference with the white letters Amago Dei superimposed in them. And Preston says, you know, this they is the finest Christian I know. I've learned so much from they. to go to a break. Boy, oh boy, folks, you're not going any place. We'll be right back. Welcome back. I'm talking to Rosaria Butterfield. You owe it to yourself to find out who she is to share these interviews with your friends on social media. This is very important. Her book is important. Five lies of our anti-Christian age. What else can we say in this final segment for today?

Because we've got to have you back again about your book. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think what I would just like to say is that the, you know, the word of God is our absolute only lifeline in this crazy world. And so, so Christians don't, you know, don't be frightened. Find your voice. And don't be frightened by the mob scene that you see out there. We need to bring reality, because we believe that the Christian faith is reality. We need to bring it to bear to the way. world. We can't just sit in our churches and be satisfied with that sort of thing. And I just want to leave you with something that really did just happen recently at a school board meeting because I hope it encourages you. You know, I was rebuked, of course, for being a bully

because you can see what a bully I am, Eric. You're a monster. Continue. I am a monster. And when when I'm in person, you know, that's all five to 115 pounds with me. Very scary. I do. I cut a very scary figure. But I had the last school board meeting, I brought my 20-year-old son as my bodyguard because my husband was, and he's a pastor and he was doing visitations. And the last speaker at the school board meeting stood up, and this was a school board meeting, to discuss transgenderism and children and parents' rights. So we were on topic. She stood up and she screamed in the microphone. And actually, the school board it stopped and gave a point of privilege and said, listen, do you need to compose yourself? Do you want us to restart your three minutes like the rest of us? Your three minutes are up and they like, you know, they take you out of there. And she said, oh, no, no, this is my point. And so she resumed her screaming. I live in Durham, North Carolina, very blue. I thought it was some nutcase off the street. It happens. Turns out this is a Durham County school teacher. So she screamed for her three minutes.

I went up to her afterwards and I gave her my phone number and I said, look, I'm sorry, I can't interpret screaming. But if you'd like to use your words, I would be happy to hear you out. And I mean it. Here's my phone number. Call me. I want to hear your words. We got in the car and my 20-year-old son said, mom, the last time you told me to use my words, I was for. Okay.

And I think what we need to see is that the, is that. that sin infantilizes people. And I want, I want especially a Christian audience to know, it's not just a sin to tell a lie. It's a sin to believe a lie. So some of these books that come to you well reviewed by well-heeled parochurch ministries and all of their higherlings, if you're believing a lie, that sin is on you. and, you know, the screamer was a licensed school teacher. If that's what she does at a school board meeting, what is she doing in her classroom?

Now, what when you mention, and again, we'll talk about this when we have you back, but I want to know, you know, you say parent church organizations, whatever, that to me is the most grievous thing that we have church organizations, paratrochurch organizations that are somehow affirming these lies, that's scandalous. And ladies and gentlemen, maybe it was you, as aria said, we have to stop being nostalgic. You've got to understand you're in a new day, okay? The New York Times today is not the New York Times of, you know, 1950, which by the way, wasn't that great in 1950.

But the point is that these organizations aren't what they once were. You need to deal with that. So we know that Christianity today has utterly gone over to the dark. side. It is heartbreaking that a once great magazine has become just a fountain of nonsense and lies and confusion. But what other paratrochurch organizations are buying into what lies? Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, the thing about a parochurch organization is it tends to be based a lot on pluralism. So you'll get maybe one good article and one, you know, nutty, crazy article. And that leaves the reader, the average Christian reader saying, well, I guess it could be both. And so that is part of

the passivity. That's what I'm seeing in something like the gospel coalition. And I agree. But excuse me, that's also a very sophisticated satanic way of lying. In other words, that you confuse people in a new way by saying, here's something good, here's something bad in the same platform. What does that say about the bad thing? Well, maybe it's not so bad. Well, and if you wanted that particular totally bereft, heretical, quote-unquote Christian theology extrapolated, read David French, because he is the gospel of pluralism. So you as a Christian, now let me tell you, am I surprised when you have a tsunami of pressure coming from, you know, this very satanic movement and a world that has gone over to it? Am I surprised that a parish church ministry

that is run by hirelings. Higherlings, as Jesus says, they don't die for the sheep. They feed the sheep to the wolves. So I think it's the local church. And so what I would say to you is if you are valuing your parochurch, some parochurch ministry over the local church, you've already got one step in the abyss

and you need to yank it out right now. Because here's the deal. The command is to destroy the idols. and to proclaim the word of God. You don't go and say, well, see that mound of Mollock over there? I think the light is going to outweigh the darkness. I'm going to go put my pulpit or sell my book table right up on that mound of Mollock. Because God says, you know, that is just a perjuring of what the gospel is.

Well, so the gospel coalition, we know this is the case with them. I think the last time you mentioned, crew, is guilty of the same thing. I think it's been a real, at least what I've seen coming out of crew, and I'm going to tell you something, it isn't just crew, but one of the things that's happening for these campus ministries is that you have these quote-unquote transgender Christians coming in saying, you know, my name is Matilda and, you know, I would like to be in the women's Bible study and use the women's restroom and I need some woman to help me learn how to curl my hair. And these campus ministries, are so much buttressed by these parochurch ministries that have given over to the lie that you can be gay and Christian. You can be trans and Christian. Why? Well, because your feelings are actually your God.

Don't you know? We're at a time for today. The book is five lies of our anti-Christian age. Folks, look up Rosaria Butterfield. Rosaria, we'll have you back as soon as possible. Thank you so much. Thank you, Eric. Lord bless you. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Robert Netsley right now, who is with Inspire Investing.

Robert, I can't help but get excited about what you've created an opportunity for people to find out if their money is funding wicked things. If they have money in a 401k or retirement fund, whatever it is, that is invested in companies that are doing evil things, that is promoting pornography, promoting abortion, promoting any number of things or ideologies with your money, folks. So Robert Nestle has created something where you can get a free report that tells you where your money is and they will help you get your money into companies that are doing good things. So you have to go to inspireadvisors.com slash Eric. Inspireadvisors.com slash Eric. You get a free report.

But this is something I, you know, Robert, I guess it, just gives me hope that it's possible to turn things around in America because when I think of how much money people have invested out there, if they would understand what's going on and shift that money to good stuff, it's just huge. It's just absolutely monstrous. It's enormous. It's enormous. And we are seeing fruit from that labor. It's remarkable. It doesn't have to even be trillions of dollars to change things. I've been on the phone, you know, in recent weeks, you know, with investor relations and CFOs and whatnot. We regularly engage with companies that we invest in or are like to invest in

or kind of just speaking biblical truth, the corporate power. And, you know, one of the things we hear is often that, number one, these people have never heard, they tell us they've never heard from a faith-based investor before. They've been doing their job for 20, 30 years. You know, executive major organizations never heard from a faith-based investor. So number one, they need to hear our voice. Number two, they're thankful to hear it, even in some of these sort of, you know,

woke businesses you think that this don't care, there are people in those businesses of influence that actually do care about what we have to say and oftentimes have enough influence to change things. So for instance, Costco stopped giving money to gay pride parades. Chevron stopped giving money to Planned Parenthood. There's a laundry list of other organizations that have changed that is unbelievable. That is unbelievable. Robert Nelson, that is unbelievable. It is so wonderful. I want to tell people, folks, what you do and don't do, you can change. You can change. change the world if you take an interest in this. When I hear that a company like Costco would stop giving money to something like that or Chevron, these are huge, huge companies. And you shop there,

your money may be invested there. When we get involved in these things, we can change the world. So I want to say the action point is go to invest, I'm sorry, inspireadvisors.com slash Eric, inspire advisors.com slash Eric. You'll get a free report that will help you figure this out. And I know, Robert, that you guys will help people if they want to transition to invest in companies that believe in their values. But this is a gigantic thing that we have. I mean, it's to me scandalous when we have power and we don't use that power. It's like when I say, I'm not going to vote.

I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to do that. When you don't do those things, people who don't share your values, who share opposite, who have opposite values, they're going to prevail. So I just want to say to you, Robert, thank you for taking this on

because it is game-changing. Like you said, it's a movement. The more people that do this, it's an amazing thing when we think of the money that is out there, that many people of faith, with traditional values, have invested in woke companies. Ladies and gentlemen, you've got to do something about it.

You've just got to do something about it. This is like a mandate that we've got to live our faith out in every sphere and where your money is. That's a big deal. So please go to InspireAdvisors.com slash Eric. This is a free report. InspireAdvisors.com slash Eric. Robert Natsley, thank you.

Pleasure. Thank you, Eric.