The Eric Metaxas Show - Rosaria Butterfield

Episode Date: September 21, 2023

Rosaria Butterfield shares from her latest book: 'Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age'.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Metaxus show. I shouldn't tell you this, but Eric hired someone who sounds just like him to host today's show. But since I'm the announcer, they told me, so I'm telling you, don't be foe. The real Eric's in jail.

Hey there, folks. Welcome to the program. I am really particularly excited to speak to my guest right now. Her name is Rosaria Butterfield. If you don't know of her, hold on to your hat because her story is amazing. She's been on the program in the past, but it's been a while. So before I get into the details, let me simply say, Rosaria, welcome to the program. Thank you, Eric.

It's such a joy to be here with you. It's a joy for me. Now, your story is, it's an amazing story, and I want to start there for people who don't know who you are, because very few people have stories as dramatic as yours is. You have a new book out. We're going to be talking about that. It's called Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age. This is red-hot stuff.

But your story is that you were a professor of English and women's studies at Syracuse University. you were in a same-sex relationship for years, and then something insane happened, and you became a Jesus freak and got married. You're a homeschool mother. You speak around the country, but your story is an extraordinary story, and I just want to touch on that before we get into this book for people who aren't familiar with it. I've given the highlight. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's the power of the gospel to. change lives. I was a professor of English at Syracuse University. I was I was a coordinator of that was what was then called the Gay and Lesbian Studies Program. And in very many ways,

I was hired and mentored and then tenure to make homosexuality look wholesome, which, you know, I, to my shame, pulled off. So I wasn't just any old lesbian. I was the one you were not wanting to deal with. I wasn't just any old lesbian. No, not a guard variety one. No, I co-authored the university's domestic partnership policy, which, you know, steamrolled gay marriage. Listen, Eric, when I look at this world, my fingerprints are all over it. And I think about that every day. But I was working on a book on the religious right, basically just wanted to know why people like you hated people like me. Straightforward question.

I didn't need any more friends. I didn't care if I had any more enemies. I just had a question. And in the process, the Lord allowed me the amazing opportunity to, to get to know Ken Smith, who was the pastor of the Syracuse Reform Presbyterian Church. He was also my neighbor. And after about 500 meals at his house, probably a conservative number there. And reading through the Bible seven times with Ken, this was not, we weren't sitting around chatting about whatever.

He didn't ask me how I felt. He didn't ask me if we needed a gay bowling league in the church. he genuinely wanted me to know that he accepted me as a lesbian, but he didn't approve because God didn't approve. And so I just put that out there because I think people don't understand. I came to faith under the doctrine of the Christian faith, not this garbage that you see out there right now. You know, the idea was that I would change, that God would capture my heart and I would desire him and that I would change and no longer be gay. And so really when I committed my life to Jesus, it wasn't because I stopped feeling like a lesbian or I was just kind of zapped.

It was that the resurrection of Jesus Christ was true and it was kind of a, it was a truth that I had no interpretive authority over. And that's when the hard stuff started in many, many ways. Well, I mean, there's so much to talk about. Now, you wrote a memorandum. called the secret thoughts of an unlikely convert. And I recommend it. And one of the joys of talking to you and to Beckett Cook and to so many others that I've spoken to over the years is to hear the stories of people who were in that world,

who are not anymore in that world. Because we live in a world that has a narrative. And that narrative doesn't like to hear stories like yours or Beckett Cooks. They say, no, no, no, that can't happen. that doesn't happen. Those people are nuts. Well, it does happen. I have friends to whom it has happened. And it's an amazing thing when you hear the stories of transformation and suddenly you're confronted with the idea that this is possible. I lived in a world where I was told this is not possible. This cannot happen. And yet, here's a story. Here's a story. And you know,

you go into details in your story. But one of the reasons, as I said, it's a joy to have you on is just because there's so few places where you can hear stories like yours that give people hope that maybe my life can be different or my friend who's going through this or my relatives going through this. Maybe they can have hope. And so I just imagine that that was one of your motivations for telling your story. Oh, absolutely. But I would say my biggest motivation for telling my story was we were, Kent and I were married and we had adopted, at that point, two children out of foster care at the age of 16. You know, I'm, I think one of the few people I know who have adopted people who stand a foot taller than I am when I meet you for the first time. And, you know, they thought I was just all cleaned up.

And I wanted them to know, I serve a God who can move mountains and can certainly change feelings. So if the question is, can God change my feelings? Oh, God can tell the mountain where to stand and he can't change my feelings? Why do we think feelings are bigger than God? So I very much wrote it. I even dedicated it to my children because I wanted them to know that I serve a powerful God and that you can too. And that is the gospel story. The gospel story is a story about change of repentance and belief turning.

It's not a story about God just loving you right where you are and not expecting any change. That's ridiculous. Jesus Christ is the second Adam. He came to save us from our sins. Now I want to be... And when we say we don't... No, I'm just going to say, I want to be clear that, you know, when I'm talking to people who were once... in this case, in the gay lifestyle.

It's like talking to somebody, you know, who used to sleep around with members of the opposite sex, then they become a Christian, and they stop doing that. There's a continuum in the sense of where those people are in terms of the struggle. Some people still have the desire. Sometimes it's still a strong desire. Sometimes it goes mostly away. Sometimes it goes all the way away away. way, but the point is they're obedient to what God says. God says, no, no, no, you don't do that.

I love you. You don't behave like that. And that's what's interesting because there are people that would still say, well, I still experience same-sex attraction, but now I don't act on it. In the same way that, you know, many men would say that I have longed for someone other than my spouse, but I don't do that. I don't go there because I know that God says, no, no, no, no, you don't do that. So, you know, it's important that we, A, say that God is in the business of changing lives, but he does it in different ways every time. Sometimes it's just utterly miraculous. I mean, I know people that have been delivered from addictions, like drug addictions instantly. Other people, it's a lifelong thing that they're dealing with. And it's

just important to say that because the fact is God is God. He's going to do it the way he's going to do it. Right. Could I add one more thing to that, though? It's also really, really important. And this is, I think this is just the, this is how mature Christians have to live. We need to learn how to hate our sin without hating ourselves. And so we can't coddle a sinful desire. If you desire an object that God has said no to, that's sin. That's not your sexual orientation. That's your sin orientation. And one of the challenges we have right now is we live in a world really downstream from Freud, downstream from a Bergerfeld, and we're told that there is such a thing as a gay person, that it is a personhood issue, not that it is a sin issue. So you hear people say things like,

well, that I'm gay and I'm made in the image of God. I'm trans and I'm made in the image of God. Well, separate that. Being made in the image of God is Genesis 127. It means that you were born male or female, and that you are reflecting, called to reflect God's image in knowledge, righteousness, and holiness. Okay, now we have to go to a break, but what you're saying, now you're bringing up the big point here. So when we come back, we're going to pick this up because, folks, this is the issue of our age, and we're going to get into the book. We'll be right back with Rosaria Butterfield. For 10 years, Patriot Mobile has been America's only Christian conservative wireless provider. And when I say only, trust me, they're the only one.

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Welcome back, folks. I have the joy of speaking with Rosaria Butterfield, who is a brave and articulate voice in our time. She has a new book out called Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age. And I'm assuming that one of them is just what you were beginning to talk about. This idea that people say things like, well, I am gay. And I similarly to you would say, like, that doesn't compute. What does that mean? That's like somebody saying like, you know, I'm an adulterer. What are you talking about? Like, this is behavior that you're saying must be okay. But the Bible says it's not okay. So how do you, where do you get this idea, this cultural idea that you're identified by this, by the particular way that you are broken?

We're all broken. But I don't identify myself somehow positively in terms of what God describes as broken. Right, right, right. And you probably don't have a wolf for a pastor either. So you've got that, you know, that issue as well. I say that because these ideas have a battery to them. And they, the five lies are not just in the world. They're in the church. And that's part of the problem. But yeah, lie number one is that homosexuality is normal. And you hear that when people say things like, well, I'm, I'm gay and I'm made in the image of God. I'm trans and I'm made in the image of God. And it just confuses what personhood really means. personhood means being made in God's image as a man or as a woman, which are distinct and separate and clear and binary categories of personhood and reflecting that image in knowledge, righteousness, and holiness. Homosexuality and transgenderism come from the world, the flesh, and the devil. You can't be made in the image of God as the world, the flesh, the devil. It is simply not possible, but the normalization of homosexuality, which was, you know,

a little bit of Freud and a whole lot of a Bergerfell is where we are. And we have way too many hirelings in the evangelical church, way too many hirelings in these parish church ministries. And nobody wanted to have the fight in the street. So what did they do? They hired Revoiced. They have the gay Christians come in. And they simply try to make peace. But the problem is LGBTQ plus is the reigning idol of our day. There is no way

to make peace with it. And Christians who say, oh, I want to just be a soft presence, you know, oh, yeah, I want to be a soft presence where? Here in Sodom? How'd that go for a lot? Well, it's very, first of all, it's confusing. I mean, just to give an example, not far from where I live in New York, there's a

very prominent Catholic church, which had this rainbow banner. And I thought to myself, whoa, that's the Catholic Church. You know, they have been clear on abortion, on, you know. So when I see a rainbow banner there, so you want to ask the question, what are you saying? And this is to me the key.

And this is, the Pope is way off on this. The American bishops are way off on this. And obviously, many evangelical churches are way off on this. But the message they're sending, and this is the message they're sending, and this is the key folks. It's deliberately confusing. It's sort of not clear on, is this behavior good? They use terms like, we welcome diverse. We welcome. And I thought to myself, what church have I ever seen that doesn't welcome sinners? Like, of course, you welcome. The question is, are you subtly saying that is not sin? What are you saying? And it seems to me that that's what's so

diabolical is that they're not being really clear. They're being deliberately confusing. That's kind of what they're doing on purpose. Well, and I would say that that is the function of an idol. An idol wants you, so there are two kind of ways of dealing with idolatry, right? You could be like, oh, look at Malik over there. You know, it's over there. But idolatry happens when we either are worshipping something we ought not, or just

standing side by side with it, tolerating it. That's actually a function of worshipping that idol. But what you're describing is a classic, and you and I both know this, because this is our former field, classic postmodern moment. You seed the moral language to the left as if the Bible doesn't have a moral language. And the minute you see the moral language to the left, you're doing things like using transgender pronouns. You are using words like, you know, marriage equity.

You're talking about your beloved neighbors in the LGBTQ community and how to evangelize to them. Instead of using biblical language, which would, which, you know, very simply says, as you and I have both experienced, repent and flee. Flee, run. That's way too clear, Rosaria. That's way too clear. Well, you want to evangelize that. And flee. Yeah. That's exactly like, that's the healing message. That's true. You know, you know what happens if you evangelize the LGBTQ community accurately, powerfully, well, and God blesses it?

There is no LGBTQ community. So that's actually, that's easy. That's easy to, because the LGBTQ blah blah community, as we said, whatever you think about the gay issue, there is no LGBT. There is no such community. Straight, I mean, gay men are not hanging out with lesbians who are not hanging out with the trans. So this is a fiction created like there's this wonderful, happy rainbow group that they hang out together. Just starting there, that itself is a fiction. But here's the unifying piece that we need to confront. You remember back in the old days when we would talk about leaving consenting adults?

alone. Boy, you haven't heard that expression in a while, have you? No. Well, the way that that won the day was to create a bunch of straight allies who basically would just come up right alongside the gay community and say, look, we're just like you, or all together. Those gay allies have become today's groomers of the especially just diabolical notion of the transgender child. And I am speaking to you. you fresh off of going to a Durham County school board meeting where that was the topic. And I will just say that if there's anyone out there who truly believes, as Jen Wilkins

on the gospel coalition said recently, that sending your kids to public schools will give them a first-rate world-class education, I don't know what planet. Not in 2023, not when there's a federal mandate in your public schools to teach gender ideology as part of an anti-bullying clause, which means you can't take your kids out of it. So yesterday's allies are today's groomers, and the new issue really is horrific. It's this invention of the transgender child. With I, you know, Christopher Rufo, which I think he's just a brilliant guy, he calls it the totem of the American left. You know, like the thing you poke on a stick and you stand behind. it. Okay. That's what we're talking about. Well, look, first I'll have to ask, has the gospel

coalition gone completely to hell? I mean, what in the world happened to the gospel? The Christianity today has gone to hell. I mean, it's astonishing that in not many years, we have seen what were once respectable Christian organizations or institutions completely drift into the camp of the left. it's disheartening, but we have to be honest about it. It's really, these are no longer places that you want to be bothering with. But it's challenging because it isn't a unified problem. It's a problem of pluralism. It's the David Frenchism of our day.

It is the problem of pluralism. So you'll have a conservative, you know, giving a good article, and then you'll have, you know, some wacko saying something else. And so it leaves, you know, and especially my book is written to the moms the grandmas who have children lost to this madness, they don't have time to read 10 articles to figure out which one might say something. We need to give people a clear picture. Pluralism is the most cowardly form, I think, of being a postmodernist that you will see. Stand somewhere, Church. I want to say this. This reminds me of a few years ago, the now

late Tim Keller, who I consider a friend, I loved him, but he said something that I found so preposterous. He said, I think everybody should read everything they can get their hands on on critical race theory. And I thought to myself, yeah, if you're like a semi-retired, brilliant pastor who has the time to wade through this garbage, but you might as well say to people like, you know, you should look at all the pornographic literature you can, just so you understand it better. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. A past, or a leader needs to say to people, this stuff is bad, this stuff is Marxist, this stuff is diabolical, and you need to know it is evil. But kind of telling people, well, it's complicated and let's talk about it, that's the beginning of this confusion, which is deliberate on the

part of those you're talking about, and I'm talking about. They are deliberately confusing people, and I don't believe that that was Tim Keller's intention, but it's this kind of rarefied intellectual view. When the person in the pew doesn't have time for that, they need to know, is this sort of good or sort of bad? What is it? Folks, I'm talking to Rosaria. Butterfield, write her name down. She's a hero. The new book, Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age by Rosaria. Butterfield, we'll be right back. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering or eliminating pain. I'm often asked that question just the other night. I was asked that question, while the owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal.

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Use promo code Eric for more specials. 800, 978305783057. Use promo code Eric or Mypillow.com. Folks, welcome back. I'm speaking to Rosaria Butterfield, who really, um, is talking about some stuff that's a right at the center of people's lives these days. The new book is Five Lies of our anti-Christian age, and you dare, Rosaria, to take on the fiction of the LBGTQ, blah, blah, community,

and the wicked lie that we ought ever to ask our children what gender they might prefer. That is so, I mean, we have to. say it, ladies and gentlemen, that is evil. That is an evil, evil thing. It is wicked and it is designed to violate children's innocence. And if you don't stand against it or if you're going to a church that's not standing against this, maybe I would suggest that you get the heck out of that church yesterday and take your friends with you because this is utterly diabolical. So I know you deal with this in your book, Rosario. Yeah. Oh, no, absolutely.

You know, what's so fascinating, you know, another one of the lies is that transgenderism is normal for some people, which is, you know, transgenderism is satanic. So it's just flat out satanic. But what is so interesting to me about the transgender issue is that it really takes the, what is a feminist, you know, foundational idea that there is a difference between sex and gender. Now, from to a Christian perspective, there's no difference between your sex and your gender. there's no difference. You are biologically male or you're biologically female. And God has given us very clear directives of how to live as a biological male or a biological female. And to separate those into two distinct categories and then create antagonistic roles for each and rules for each is to deny that the creation ordinance is good.

that Genesis 127 is God's goodness and his good blessing for everyone. And now, do we know that there are anomalies? Of course there are an amelies. But never in the history of the universe have we said that the presence of anomalies

should destroy objective categories of personhood. This is the first time, people, and I see all these evangelicals nodding and smiling. You've got Preston Sprinkle, who says, I don't know. you know is transgenderism part of the fall how do I know I wasn't in the garden when Adam and Eve sinned as though somehow he's a better objective you know viewer to this than God himself

and what is crew doing embracing sprinkle as their foundational guide for sexuality okay now I've got to I've just got to hit pause on what you just said because this is this is folks this is the bad news you've got to face the bad news crew formerly campus crusade for Christ, Bill Bright, is part of the problem. When I hear that, I go, that is heartbreaking, heartbreaking, that they're embracing some of this leftist nonsense. It is, it's madness. But they are, and so Christians need to stop being nostalgic.

You know, part of the reason, there are three reasons that these five lies have been unleashed into the world in the church, and one is, we don't know what time it is. So we do really need to know what time is it. That's right. And the other two are the first is that we don't seem to know that the seeds of the gospel are in the garden. You can't throw out the garden and get the gospel, right? And then the last is that we don't actually know how to love our enemies. We only like to pretend that our enemies are our friends.

And if that were the case, if the church that I walked into, you know, 25 years ago had lost its way so sufficiently that it believed all that nonsense, Eric, I wouldn't be talking to you. You know, I wouldn't be a Christian. There'd be no reason to be a Christian because the real gospel would not have been held out to me. Well, what you just said about Campus Crusade for Christ now, crew, adopting this. Let's talk about what it is that they've adopted, because people need to hear this. People need to hear that these places that we once trusted, some of them, them are no longer trustworthy. It is horrifying, but we have to face it, folks, and you have to

deal with this squarely. So tell me about that. And let me just say one other thing about that, because we are Christians. So if Preston-Sprinkle, gospel coalition, Christianity Today, crew, if all of these organizations that have been holding a heretical view of sexuality and gender, all of a sudden stood up and publicly repented, acknowledged what they did, and, said, don't follow that. And then they could say one of two things. They could say, I'm getting out of the business. I'm going to go sell all state insurance or whatever.

Or they could say, we're going to do this differently. You know what we would say? Welcome to the face. Welcome. Haven't we all done that? I mean, I can barely. In fact, I begin the book with the things, the public stupid things I said that I needed to publicly repent of. So if somebody's got a microphone in your mouth, you're probably going to do one of these.

But we haven't seen it. yet, and this has been going on for a while. Now, in the book, I talk about a lot of these things, and I do name names, and I give some specifics about basically how you know false teaching when it is confronted, you know, when it is before you, because it's very sweet. It comes, it sounds very compassionate. What it does is it tends to extract Christian themes from the cross. and so it has just kind of a thematic Christianese about it.

And you have to have your, you have to do two things, I would say, and this is why I wrote this book. You need to be discerning, so you need to know what the gospel really is so that you can know its counterparts. But you need to be willing to throw garbage in the garbage. And what I mean by that, I mean, I've got lots of people, oh, Rosaria, instead of being so negative, why don't you write a review of, you know, Preston Springfield? book. Why? Because I know that I need to throw garbage in the garbage. That's why I don't need to write. This isn't my, you know, esteemed colleague. No, this is, this is, this is gets to the point. Folks, the hour is late. We need to be crystal clear, ladies and gentlemen. If you dither, you're helping the enemy to succeed. We'll be right back talking to Rosaria Butterfield.

Welcome back, folks. We're talking to Rosaria Butterfield, who has a brand new book out, five lies of our anti-Christian age. And what you're saying is, saying Rosaria, and I've been talking about this a lot wherever I go, these lies have come into the church. That is what is so horrific, that there are many in the church who've opened their arms to confusion, to lies, to heresy. And they always do in a way that's very clever. They're kind of, you know, it's sort of Christian except it's of the devil. That's to me the ultimate devilishness of these kinds of things is that they they borrow as you just said from Christian truth. It's about compassion. It's about, you know, these things that would, they will

deceive you if you don't have discernment, if you don't have clarity. And I guess this is why you wrote your book Five Lives of our anti-Christian age, because people need to understand what is happening. Absolutely. And I mean, I would say in addition to that, it's, it is very satire We need to remember that it's not just a sin to tell a lie. It's also a sin to believe one. So for the people who are passively sitting in churches where you know you have a wolf for a pastor, but you've been there for 30 years and it used to be okay. And there's no time for nostalgia.

I think what's really happening, Eric, is that people don't seem to know that this is a spiritual warfare. Right. This isn't just like a nice picnic. This is this is the real deal. And, and, and, you know, also, this is the moment that the Lord has made us for. So, you know, I mean, I think I mentioned that I survived speaking not once, but twice to the local school board on the subject of transgenderism and parental rights. And one of the things that you see is that often if there are other conservatives speaking, which I'm, very glad for. If there's no gospel, then what about all the people who have agreed to castrate their children because they thought Joe Biden's interpretation of the 14th Amendment was right? What about the children who are, will be incontinent and infertile for life because of, you know, as they grow into adulthood, all of the years of testosterone on a woman's body? You know, the world knows how, even the conservative world,

knows how to hold these people up as an example of what not to be. But we're Christians. We don't throw people away. We want to proclaim the gospel that says that the greatest news ever is that God won't be mocked. He made you a man and you could

mock that in your delusion but in the New Jerusalem, when Jesus comes back, you will be resurrected and you will not be maimed. It's not possible. So the need for Christians to get in the game and to get out of the slumber of nostalgia

is so that you can be some good to these people. And the other issue is I have a lot of, you know, this is also written to all the moms and grandmas who write to my, to me and to my website and to say, but what about my daughter? What about my grandson? One woman speaks to me recently. you said my daughter, who's a lesbian, has decided she's non-binary and she's going to raise my three-year-old grandson as a girl to save the world from toxic masculinity. And I live in a state where all this is okay. Well, you need to help that grandma.

I need to help that grandma know that there's a way to try to stay connected to this, I think, at this point, crazy daughter without becoming indoctrinated. because that grandson is not a trans child. He's an abused child. And he needs immediate help. So I think it's really imperative that we understand that I know it's hard to leave a church. I mean, I know it's hard to realize that as, you know, Aaron Run has said, this is negative world. You've got to have some different tactics than you had, you know, 15 years ago before a burgefell. A burghapel was a big line in the sand because not only did it institutional.

and legalized gay marriage, it also codified something called dignitary harm, which means you're harming people in a legal sense if you fail to affirm their LGBTQ dignity. It used to be harm was material. They lost a job or something like that. So that's why people, and I just talk to Christians all the time who had no idea that that's in the mix, and that was 2015. We're looking up, you know, we're pushing now a decade and looking at the fruit of this. Christians, we need you in the game. and your lost children need you in the game. And I want to say, which I think I already said it, but I say everywhere I go, I say to people,

if you're going to a church, which I think the technical term is a dead church, a useless church, the devil's kind of church that is not in this game, that doesn't believe in spiritual warfare, that doesn't believe in taking the gospel out of the pews and into the real world, if you're going to one of those churches that is not dealing with this stuff, folks, God is going to judge you for sitting in those pews. You need to get out of those pews, go to a church. It would be better that people don't go to a church and get fed online until you can find a good church, because these churches are coddling us, or it's almost like they're keeping us asleep as though these issues don't concern us.

we can just talk about Jesus and avoid this kind of stuff. And folks, that's the church not being the church. And there's so many people wasting God's time and God's money in going to these churches. These churches need to wither and die because they are not fighting with God in this battle for people he loves. To me, it's just astonishing that these churches exist. Absolutely. And if I could just add something to that, you know, to say, just to repeat, there's no time for nostalgia. But do you realize if you are in a church like that that the whole world is already rebuking you?

Because you have something like Tavistock, the largest pediatric gender, quote unquote, affirming clinic in the world who shut down this year because internal activists, that's LGBTQ, you know, officiados. who are blowing the whistle, risking their lives to do so. And yet you've got, you know, these just fools in, you know, in dead churches and in, you know, semi-alive churches in some cases who can't even answer a question directly. Here, let me answer it directly. Homosexuality is a sin. It violates the creation ordinance. Transgenderism is a sin.

It's a sin of the sin of envy. It is the sin of violating the Tenth Commandment, and it also violates the creation ordinance. If we can't just say that simply, why not? That's the point. We need clarity. The book is Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age. We'll be right back with Rosaria Butterfield. Welcome back talking to Rosaria Butterfield, the new book, Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age.

Rosaria, what have we missed thus far? Well, I think the way I'd want to land the plane is to just remind people that this is the world I helped create. And although I am saved and delivered, and I actually don't feel like a lesbian anymore or even think in those terms anymore, I look at this world and the blood is on my hands. I really, you know, I'm a mom, I'm a grandma, there's a lot of cleanup I need to do. And so this book really was written in part because this is my cleanup. But if I could just land the plane on one salient point that we need to think about, and that is that so much of these lies were driven by feminism.

And I don't know if you've noticed. There's only one place that feminism is alive and well. And it's in the evangelical church because feminism in the world is dead. Transgenderism killed it. And I think this is a really important thing, especially for Christian women to realize, if you really want to rail against biblical patriarchy, I'm not talking about he-man patriarchy. I'm talking about father rule, the godly men, your godly husband, your godly pastor, you really want to rail against that. Well, how do you feel about transgender patriarchy? Because that's what you got. So I think we have to live. look at these things and see where they are going and and be wise and be rational and not be sentimental and have courage. But this is a fight we need to have on the streets. We have to need to have it right now. And what I mean by that is Christians need to be Christians in the world.

We need to do it. We need to stop being so timid. I'm going to tell you, I'm living proof. I go to these meetings. I give my little three-minute speech, you know, some some dude in a skirt cries, you know, sometimes a board member will take a point of privilege and tell me that I'm white, articulate, and educated, and that leaves me wondering, and that's meant as an insult, by the way, you know, it's a bit of a freak show, but if the conservatives don't show up? Do we feel like we have any responsibilities in this world? And again, what about our kids?

What about our grandchildren? If we're not fighting the fight, how can they do it? Well, you're singing my song, or I'm singing your song, or we're both singing God's song, because to me, this is where God is right now, is he's calling the church out of the church buildings into the world to bring the Bible, to bring God's truths into the world. They're not meant to be kept in that building. If you want that kind of Christianity, you could have that in China, where you just go do your little thing in the building, and then when you leave, you bow to the secular authority of the atheist state. The real church doesn't do that. The real church brings the

truth of God, the hope of God, the joy, the life, the peace of God out into the broken world. And again, folks, if you're going to a church that is pretending like this stuff doesn't exist or that is making peace with the devil on these kinds of issues, I say this sternly. You need to get out of that church. The time is short. Rosario, we've got to just have you back as soon as possible because we've just scratched the surface here. Ladies and gentlemen, the book is Five Lies of our anti-Christian Age. and Rosaria, let me say that if people want, they can find you online where?

Rosaria Butterfield.com. What could be simpler? Rosaria butterfield.com. Folks, I recommend that you do that. Rosaria, you're a wonderful resource for people. So folks, go to Rosaria Butterfield.com, and the new book is Five Lies of Our Anti-Christian Age. We'll have you back as soon as possible. Rosaria, thank you so much.

Thank you, Eric. Lord bless you.