The Eric Metaxas Show - Ryan Bethea & Father Carlos Martins

Episode Date: March 14, 2023

Ryan Bethea and Father Carlos Martins explore the world of possession with eye-witness stories about exorcism and the demonic.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. They say it's a thin line between love and hate, but we're working every day to thicken that line, or at least to make it a double or triple line. Now here's your line jumping host, Eric Mattaxas.

I think it's Monday. Monday. So I'm going to say, happy Monday. Happy Monday. No, it is Monday. We are talking in a few minutes to an exorcist. And to my friend Ryan Bethay, who does a podcast with The Exorcist, you will hardly believe the stories you're going to hear. It's important.

Yes. Spiritual reality is important. It is Miracle Monday. It's a different kind of Miracle Monday today. Yeah. Now, I want to read two letters that listeners have written. I want to respond to these two letters. We never get to do this.

We never seem to have time. We're always leaping to the next thing. Yammering on about something. Something. So before I read the two letters, let me just remind you. You know that we're doing a fundraiser with Food for the Poor trying to feed hungry children. I'm not going to belabor it. Oh, why don't I?

This is a big deal. We've all got problems. But the idea that kids in Honduras, that's one of the countries that Food for the Poor folks is on, Guatemala. They are starving, folks, and we have the ability to do something about it just like that, just like that. You can pick up your phone and you can text the keyword Eric to 911999. Actually, I want to play a clip. This is a clip, a TV reporter in Honduras who is talking about what is happening there right now. Let's play that clip. Children, like other children in this region, are not developing, according to their age, due to malnutrition and families in unimaginable misery.

Here, infant malnutrition is an epidemic. Poverty here seems like a curse and diseases among children are rampant. Folks, I don't know what to tell you, except begging you to participate. I mean, you can do it right now on your phone. You can just text the word Eric to 911-999. That could not be easier. Text the word Eric to 911-999. It'll take you to a link, and you can give anything you like anything.

You can also dial 844-8663-hope, 844-863 hope, 844-8663 hope. We just want everyone to give something. This is a campaign that we do every year because we believe in the work of food for the poor. the easiest way is go to metaxis talk.com and click on the banner and it'll give you the links. But your money goes so far that it's crazy not to do something. I'll just be blunt. Food for the poor stretches your dollars so far in feeding these kids that it's just madness not to give something. $72, just so you understand, if somebody gives $72 that feeds two children for an entire year,

that is how they can leverage your money. I see it as like the greatest investment imaginable. So I'm asking you to go to Metaxistalk.com. Give anything you can or text the word Eric to 911-9-9-9-9. Now, we've got a couple of letters, and I hope we have time to read them. The first one is, do you want to read it? Have you been to a Barnes & Noble lately? I'll read it.

It says, Eric, have you been in Barnes & Noble lately? I was in my local one today for the first time. and a long time, greeting me that hole between the doors teaser section when you walk in was completely filled with witchcraft books, kids, how to make tarot kits,

spell recipes, etc. Once inside the store, no less than 12 entire sections, just in front in the front half of the store, were witchcraft. What's happening with the explosion of Satan forward books and materials and stores? Barnes & Noble, Joan Fabrics, Michael's crafts, all with prominent witchcraft books and kits.

Can you explore this and suggest if there's a way to stop this demonic flood? My millennial niece laughed at my shock, saying, it's everywhere and unavoidable, so it doesn't matter. Surely it must matter. So this is the person's name is Eza writing to us. Look, ladies and gentlemen, it matters a lot. And I think, I want to be clear, this happened in the 60s and the 70s. There was a flood of this kind of occultic stuff coming in, always under the guise of, oh, it's exotic Eastern religion.

There's the Maharishi Mahesh yogi. It's always the culture kind of making it like, this is fine. This is kind of interesting and exotic or sexy or something or provocative. It's exciting. You want to, you want to, this is as dangerous as it gets. It's as dangerous as it gets. I mean, in fact, am I not talking to an exorcist in a few minutes? Exactly.

All right. Well, the same thing. I want to tell you, people unwittingly can open doors in the spiritual realm. So, of course, you want to avoid this stuff like the plague. But you don't just want to avoid it like the plague. You want to speak out against it. You want people to know that there is a dark side. All spirituality is not good.

And I think that if you're spiritually ignorant, you kind of think, oh, it's all part of some, yeah, it's a reality. And some of it is designed to lead you away from the God who died for you and loves you. And it's designed to do that in very clever ways. It's not going to say openly, you know, worship the source of all evil. Or even if it does that, it's going to do it with a wink. Like it's kind of provocative. Come on. This is really dangerous.

stuff. So it's good that I'm reading this in front of my conversation with the Exorcist because this stuff, it just couldn't be more real. We've had Ken Fish on the program many times. This stuff is real. Now, one thing I want to say, you shouldn't let it upset you. You should let it drive you to prayer and to action. When people just get angry at the culture, that's useless. It's utterly useless.

Do something about it. Say something to the store. Say something kind to the store manager. Just register. your disapproval, do whatever you can do, or work against it, pray against it. But just to get upset, there's nothing about, the scriptures says, be anxious for nothing. So you see a problem, take it to God in prayer. It's much easier just to be angry, but it accomplishes nothing, and that's outside of God's will. So I want to be really clear. When you see all these terrible things, use it as a goad to pray or to act or whatever it is. Okay, we have another. letter that I get to read. I never get to read these letters. Eric, I know you've been a big supporter

of Donald Trump. I have been too, but one thing really bothers me about him lately, even though there has been a plethora of evidence showing the COVID vaccine as at least not being helpful and likely detrimental. Trump has still come out bragging about the quick development of the vaccine, bothers me he's not able to come out and say this was wrong. Can you comment on this? I feel like I read this before. Didn't I read this once like a month before? Anyway, can you comment on this? Yeah, I can comment on it. Donald Trump is wrong. I vote for him and I will vote for him and support him because he's right on many, many things, but he can't be right about everything.

On this one, he's definitely wrong. And listen, a lot of good people, good people in ministry, like friends of mine, Franklin Graham and others were pushing the vaccine. They believed it was a good thing. I get that. But I think as time has passed, we've recognized, well, we might have gotten that wrong. We might have gotten that extremely wrong. So I think it would be nice

if at some point Donald Trump understands the situation. I don't know. He's not the kind of person who's kind of like without an ego. And maybe the first person to have observed that because I'm so sensitive.

I think he sees it as an accomplishment. Look what I did so quickly and it's out there and all that and he doesn't want to listen to the downside. I didn't. That is there and he's going to address it. So, no, I think he's definitely wrong about that. Nonetheless, I think he will be the candidate in 2024. And I also think that there are, things have gotten so bad and are getting so bad with the Biden administration's lunacy. I mean, I think you don't need to be a scholar or a devotee of politics or the cultural land.

landscape to see that things are not great. You have to be hiding from reality, which I recommend in some cases because it's so awful. Take the blood pill. But I do think that that Donald Trump will be the candidate. And by the way, he's been putting some stuff out lately. It's been so amazing. Like that reminds you of why, of what's amazing about him. He's so innovative. He's coming up with these just brilliant, brilliant ideas. Well, I want my flying calls. car. That's all I want. Yeah, stuff like that. Anyway, all right, we're at time. And a chicken in every pot. Do not forget because it's vital to go to metaxis talk.com and give to food for the poor metaxistock.com. You can do this. You will do this by God's grace,

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Just go to patriotmobile.com slash Eric, Patriotmobile.com slash Eric or call them at 878 Patriot. Get free activation today with the offer code Eric. Folks, I promised you many things, but I always keep my promises. I believe in that. I think that's an issue of character. Promises made, promises kept. I told you that we would have Ryan Bithay and Father Carlos Martins on here to talk about what most of us call the subject of exorcism, because that is quite real. If you don't understand that that is real and that there is a spiritual realm, part of which is demonic, which is to say, extremely negative, foul, evil. If you don't get that, listen, because we're going to be talking about that.

I've known Ryan for a long time. He's a producer, writer, entrepreneur, and just kind of a big shot in his own mind. And I resent him. Ryan, welcome. Thank you. Eric, I do want to say that I know and appreciate what an honor it is for you to have father and I on this show. So I just want to acknowledge that.

to have father and me. It's the object of the sentence. Look, I know you're new to the language. I just want to encourage you. You'll get it eventually. Now, listen, people already know we're friends, because I tease my friends publicly. I'm not friends yet with Father Carlos Martins, but I am so excited to have him. And I am, you know, I joke around, particularly when we're talking about something really serious. This is serious. It doesn't get more serious than the spiritual battle that we're in this is real. And there are many people listening to this program. You know, they have their questions. They get uncomfortable maybe talking about this. So I want to do our best just to lead them along. But Ryan, why don't you, since you're my friend and you host the podcast with Father Martins,

why don't you explain who Father Martins is and how you came to meet him and do this podcast about what he does, which is to say exorcism. Absolutely. And obviously, I know friendship with you normally comes with a subpoena. So I've known you. Very good. Thank you. Known you at some level.

I could disavow. So this actually started several years ago. I was actually doing some research for another show. I've always been fascinated with just the inexplicable. I mean, you yourself are no stranger. I know you authored a book loved by dozens of people called Miracles. and I've always found that really interesting. Just because there are things in life that make it really interesting, you can't explain.

I had some friends out of the Vatican, and I was blessed to be able to take a trip out there, and I got to meet some really fascinating folks. And while doing research for that show, I was told, hey, if you are interested at all in the subject of exorcism, which most people at least are fascinated with it, they said, you need to talk with this guy, Father Carlos Martins. there is no of course official head exorcist if you call the vatican there's no phone tree that says you know office of the chief exorcist but several people said there is a gentleman we respect immensely

who has a lot of work in this and you should give him a call i gave him a call and of course i said father would you mind telling me a few stories he indulged me and after that i said okay people need to know about this even if it's rare even if you don't believe in this stuff at worst it's great entertainment at best it's liberty uh for a lot of folks And Father was nice enough to consent to say, you know what, I want to make this, I want to make people aware of my experiences and these stories and the, and what's actually happening and expose some of this. And three years later, we bring you the Exorcist Files. Okay, so that's the name of the podcast, the Exorcist Files. Yes, sir.

Okay, so people want to look this stuff and they will. It's the Exorcist Files. So Father Martins, welcome to the program. And tell us a little bit about your story. where did you grow up and where are you today? Sure, yeah. So, well, it's great to be on your show here, Eric. I grew up in a suburb just south of Toronto, Canada.

I, at the moment, I'm in Detroit, Michigan, although my ministry has been traveling all over the place. I travel all over the world annually. I'm on the road at least 250 days out of year. that's a lot. But I have to say I'm happy to hear this because I know how many people are suffering because of spiritual attack. This is very real for many, many people. There's many levels to it.

We've discussed it on this program with a number of my guests in the past, never with a Catholic priest who specializes in this. but this is real. And many people, because they don't believe it's real, including many people in the church, and I speak about the church broadly, they ignore it and people suffer. So when I know, when I meet someone who understands this world and who can bring help and deliverance to use that term to people who are being oppressed and who are suffering because of a spiritual attack, it makes me very happy. It makes me very happy that you're out there doing this.

And it makes me further happy that you and Ryan are doing the podcast because more and more and more people need to be aware of this. So how did you yourself get involved in the ministry of exorcism? When did that happen for you? Yeah, well, gosh, it happened almost 20 years ago. So when I was a deacon, so before one is ordained a priest in the Catholic Church, he's ordained a deacon, serves as a deacon for about a year. When where I was assigned, the church where I was assigned, the exorcists of the diocese ministered

out of there. And they had so many cases that when kind of a minor case would come in, like a house infestation, where there was diabolical phenomena happening within a house, objects moving by themselves, moaning, strange voices, and then kind of figures that could be seen walking around. They just, they didn't have time for cases like that. They were dealing with people who had oppression within themselves. So, you know, one of them just turned to me one day and said, Deakin, go get rid of those demons. And so I didn't have any training at the time.

And in a sense, you know, I look back on that now. I would never have advised that. But for me personally, it was probably the best thing professionally that could have happened to me. Because what I had to do was discover my own model. I had to go make my way into this situation and gain an understanding of evil in a way that made sense to me. One of the things that I knew by instinct, and it was really the only thing that I knew

was that if evil is there, it's there for a reason. It has been led in. It's in other, to use different language, to use legal language, it has gained rights. And so my job is to go and eliminate the rights. And one of the most common things that I say professionally when I talk about this topic is that the job of the exorcist, contrary to popular opinion, is not to cast out the devil. the job of the exorcist is to find out why is the devil there? What rights has he gained? And it is then his job to work with the victim to rescind those rights. So in other words, the image that many people have is that exorcism is a battle between the force of good and the force of evil, kind of hammering each other. And because our guy, Jesus Christ, has won, then we usually come out on top.

And that's really a caricature of what happens. And it really isn't true because it's not an overpowering of people. It's a taking away of the platform or the hill upon which it is stained. I want to interrupt because there's such, it's so beautiful to me, what you're doing, which I often try to do is to explain to people, the spiritual world is objectively real. It's not subjective. It's not this imaginary world, whatever you want it to be.

It is objectively real. There are rules, just like there are laws of physics in our world. There are rules. And what you're talking about is that. In other words, when you, you know, if somebody said, if they called you up and they said, hey, Father Martin, would you go to this house? They're having a raccoon infestation. you would say, okay, how do the raccoons get in?

If we can find the hole and plug the hole, get rid of the raccoons, they won't come back in. You would look at it practically because you'd be an idiot not to look at it practically. They got in somehow. How do they get in? What you're talking about and what people need to understand. I know, I know, is that this is very real. And in some ways, it's very practical. and when you begin to understand how it works, you have ways of dealing with it.

So just as you said, we also remove fear from people that people like, oh, anything can happen. The devil can attack me. Actually, if you know that Jesus lives inside you and the authority you have with him living inside you by the power of your Holy Spirit, the devils are afraid of you. It's only when you don't know that you have this unknown. and you're you're scared. So the power of Jesus, of the name of Jesus, of the blood of Jesus, all of these things are real. And it is why I want on this program with you and Ryan to talk more about this.

So the people understand this is real. There's an objective reality. And it's God's will that we not be afraid, but that we go to war and win in his name. And that we cast out these devils that got in somehow. and plug up the whole how they got in, whatever. We'll talk about that more when we come back. Folks are talking to Father Carlos Martins and Ryan, but they, it's the Exorcist Files, name of the podcast.

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and click on the red Send Food Banner. You can also text the keyword Eric to 91199. You'll get a link to make your life-saving gift. Text Eric to 911-99 or to give your gift by phone. the toll free number 844-863 Hope 844-8663 Hope. 844-863 Hope. God bless you. Folks, welcome back.

We're talking to my friend Ryan Bethea, who's a producer, a podcaster, writer, who does one particular podcast with my other guest, Father Carlos Martins, who is a leading exorcist. And they call it the Exorcist Files. And I was saying just a moment ago, this stuff is real. And we need to just abuse ourselves of the fact that who is just big and scary and whatever. No, I'll tell you what's scary. The name of Jesus is scary to demons. And God has given us the authority in the name of Jesus to deal with these things.

But we have to understand the reality. We have to push away this idea that it's just vague and hopeless and I'm scared. And I'm just going to try to get away from it on the contrary. In any case, Father Carlos Martins, you were talking about the practical aspect of if there is a demon there, a devil, whatever we want to call it, if there's a dark spirit there, somehow you say it had what we will call legal access. In other words, there's some kind of unrepented sin. There's some way that it got in. And so you look at this diagnostically like a doctor. So talk about that.

Yeah, sure. So if the devil is someplace in a person or in a place, then he has a right to be there. He's gained a right. So my job is like a doctor, is to diagnose, you know, where is the wound? Where is that doorway? And to treat that so that the devil loses his rights. The devil cannot remain behind. Until that wound is healed or until the doorway is closed, if you will, then the devil has everything. right to be there, just like you have a right to be in your own home. You have a legal right. Nobody has the legal right to kick you out. So when the devil's gained that, he's present. And that's, he's resting on that. So when I, when I face a demon in exorcism, the first thing I'm going for, the first thing I'm asking if I have not been able to find out through any other means is what rights do you have? And of course, he doesn't want to say so. So through prayers, through adjurations, through prayers both of my own and prayers of the church and, in fact, the team that I have gathered with me, that those prayers wear down the demon. They're horrifically painful to him.

And we wear him down enough until that knowledge is relinquished. Having that knowledge, then I can set about to help the victim in undoing what has been done. See, it's impossible to live in a vacuum. You're either on the side of Christ or you're not. And if you're not, then the devil has the right to harass, right? Only Jesus Christ has purchased the authority of freedom and has the right to freedom. He's the strong man that has bound up the devil. And so until one accepts Jesus, the devil has a right to be there. Now, when the devil's cast out, as our Lord says in the gospel, it's horrifically painful for him. And he wanders. And, and he's in pain. And so the first thing he's going to do when he can, when he's kind of recovered from the beating that he's got is he's going to try to go back. If he gains a legal right again into that same person, then he brings back other demons. Our Lord says seven, more powerful than himself, such that the second state of the person is worse than the first. And this, this, this, this is the story of my life.

It's, it's helping people get free. It's helping people, those who have been re-ensnared to get out of the snare again. I want to ask Ryan, uh, when you do the podcast together, um, you obviously, uh, it's Father Martins that has these experiences. But Ryan, have you ever experienced this? Have you seen deliverance? Have you seen the demonic? Because I, um, because I, I have, and there's so many people that have seen it depicted in movies and things. And I think many of them think, oh, I don't know if it's true. I don't know what it is. What is your perspective or where did you get your perspective on these things?

Yeah. So I think just to even strike an ecumenical tone and to even appeal to a secular perspective on this, throughout the research of this podcast, one, I told you, I'm interested in just metaphysical realities. There are things that we cannot be measured by the five senses that we, we all kind of accept as true that we can't prove in a laboratory. And so I think there's a fertile soil for this. One thing that struck me is as I researched this, actually, prior to developing this show, I heard an interview with a self-identifying shaman somewhere in the Midwest.

You gave an interview, and the name escapes me at the moment, but not a Christian, not a, didn't ascribe to any particular religion, but laid out this framework for how he actually interacted with this spiritual realm. And he made this case, and I'll never forget this, that they operate in a highly legalistic hierarchical model and that they all involve contracts and they're seeking influence over this world. And I thought, that is fascinating from someone with no religious background. When I started researching this, it became very clear that in almost every culture that we looked at, there was some tradition of a shaman, a spiritual guide. It seems that every culture has a prescription for this reality of a spiritual realm and a prescription

for how to deal with it. And so that to me pointed that, okay, that seems if the world, the world doesn't agree on much, but it seems to be that spirituality is a real thing. And we sort of in a more modern Western sense have kind of discarded this. I'm a big fan of C.S. Lewis's perspective on this, that the two errors we can make are to completely ignore this and suggest that it's just the work of fiction and dismiss the experiences of millions and millions of people around the world or celebrate it to. much look for the devil under every rock nook and cranny but i will say at this point i have heard from

enough credible people uh of sound mind who have looked me in the eye and said hey what you've shared on this show has happened to me i think it's rare i think it's most things are not this but um i've had enough people that i just go i don't know how to dismiss all that we're going to a break we'll be right back plenty more uh with uh father carlos martins and ryan beth the of the exorcist files new podcast ready for a riveting new documentary called Come Out in Jesus' Name in theaters nationwide March 13th. It follows number one bestselling author and Pastor Greg Locke's epic journey from a small church in Tennessee to a global deliverance ministry. Following a startling chain of events, Pastor Locke took a 180-degree turn from his mainstream religious traditions and led his church to the brink of

revival. He's exposing and fighting an unseen enemy that's destroying families and churches and paralyzing Christians with fear and bondage. Knowledge is power. Learn how Pastor Locke and a team show the church how to defeat the enemy, get delivered, and set free. The most important awakening in church history has begun. Don't miss Come Out in Jesus Name in theaters nationwide. March 13th. Tickets are available now at come out in Jesus name.com. That's come out in Jesus name.com. I've seen it. I recommend it highly. Come out in Jesus name.com. My Pillow is excited to bring you their biggest betting sale ever.

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So go to MyPillow.com and use promo code Eric or call 1-800-9-7. And you'll get huge discounts on all MyPillow betting products, including the Giza Dream Bedsheets for as low as 2998, and get all your shopping done now while quantities last. Again, use code Eric and save MyPillow.com. Welcome back, folks. I'm talking to the two men, Ryan Bethay and Father Carlos Martins, who do a podcast called The Exorcist Files. You can find it at the Exorcist Files.TV, the Exorcist Files.TV. Ryan, we were just talking about, you know, the idea of how since the beginning of time,

human beings have understood something's wrong. They need to, by some means, whatever religion, whatever spirituality, deal with some problem that exists. And that's what a lot of religion around the world is. But I see most of them, if you know, a lot of people listening and say, well, if I got a problem, I'll go to a shaman or I'll go to a witch doctor, whatever. And that to me is like rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. You're only wasting time or you're only biding time before the inevitable. You've got to deal with the root of the problem. The ship is going down.

You're going to die. The only answer is Jesus of Nazareth. That's the only answer. And so to me, it's kind of like if I have money problems and I go to the mafia guy down the street, can I borrow money? I have just solved my problem temporarily, and I have actually deepened the problem because I don't want to owe money to that guy. And if I go to a shaman or a witch doctor or somebody like that, they are appealing to a more senior spiritual power, demon, to help me deal with this other power. And so this is something that I want to be really clear that we can see everywhere around the world people dealing with this. But the only answer, and I don't say this because I'm a Christian, I say.

this because I believe this is objectively true and this is the only way people can get help is to appeal to Jesus. It is his name that makes the demons tremble. Father Martins, you talk about it's been 20 years that you've been doing this. And it seems to me, when I talk to somebody who's been doing this type of thing like my friend Ken Fish for decades, you develop a wisdom like a doctor that you say, I've seen this before. I recognize that. And I recognize that. and it gives you an ability in diagnosing and dealing with this. Talk a little bit about that process for yourself. Yeah, sure.

So demons live in wounds. And wounds have four sources. So the first is trauma. Trauma. Timmy and Joey are playing catch on the street. A car slams into Joey knocks his head and clean off his body. So the world is now a very different place for Timmy. It's not a safe place.

It's a place where little boys playing catch can be horrifically mangled. They're killed and no one can bring them back. And so the trauma, the pain, the fear, the anxiety that Timmy is going to feel is going to be exacerbated. The more that he had a role in Joey's death, he was the one that knocked on the door asking for Joey to come out that day. He was the one that threw the ball too far over his head that caused him to run and then the car hit him. And so the devil is going to exacerbate that in order to bring the person into a place of bondage. So trauma doesn't bring the devil in per se, but it creates a condition whereby the person then can make aberrant choices based on this false belief, based on a lie, that at heart, reality is a dangerous place. That at heart, no one, nothing could stop Joey's death.

Okay. I want to interrupt again just to clarify, this is what's so fascinating to me, that there is an objective reality we're talking about here. Something happens. And then lies come in, that point the finger that you are guilty. You help make this happen. How come you're alive and he's dead? We all deal with that kind of stuff in life, even if it's a particularly horrific trauma or if it is just something more benign. We have choices we make.

and we can believe what is true, what God says, or, which in this case would involve forgiving ourselves and understanding the reality of what happened, or we can open ourselves up to being exploited by these dark forces. And so that's one way you're talking about that evil can get a handhold into someone's life. And that's just one way. That's one way. Then the three others are three species of sin. So one is just personal sin. that you do something that opposes God and it closes you off to grace. You've made a choice that rejects God and embraces the enemy, embraces evil. So anything that would bring about a severance or a wound in the relationship of God,

the most common are sins whereby one embraces the occult, dabbles in the occult, visiting a medium, consulting a Ouija board, fooling around with necromancy or astrology, even Reiki treatments at a spa. You know, Reiki is all the rage today among middle class women and even men. And at heart, it's an occult endeavor whereby a practitioner is willing to increase one's energy by tapping into a source that ultimately is unknown, but they're willing to bring that energy into it. You concede to that.

You have no idea what raccoon is on the other side of that spiritual war. And once he gets in the house, try getting a raccoon out willingly. The next one is what I call generational sin, that all sin is a covenant with evil, but some covenants, some sins are so grave that it opens up a jurisdiction into the family line. I mean, the biggest example of that is original sin.

The sin of Adam caused a generational sin to affect all of us. So this is why we baptize to get rid of original sin to bring people into the family of God. We don't come into the world that way. And the third one is what I call transferred sin, curses, hexes, spells, anything that a person, an evil that is willed upon another, and that has an effect. So my job, and this is what, you know, not having someone else's model, what I discovered, and just based on the sheer number of cases that, that I started out early on in my

priesthood with, is I just noticed that it was always one of these four areas. So if one has, is afflicted by a demon or one's dwelling is, then there's going to be wounding in these four areas. My job is to find out where. And oftentimes, there are multiple wounds. Excuse me. We're going to go to a break. Folks, don't go away.

We'll be right back. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Ryan Bethay and Father Carlos Martins. Together they do The Exorcist Files, a podcast. You can find it at Exorcist Files. dot TV, exorcist files.tv. Just a few minutes in this segment, but we'll have more in our two. Father Martins, please continue what you were saying. Yeah. So what I discovered was that if the devil is present in a location or in a person, there's going to be wounding in these four areas.

My job is to find out where. So I don't bring some kind of magic God dust and sprinkle it on the person, and that's what exorcism is. I also don't bring a book of kind of magical prayers that I pray them and poof, the devil is gone. My job is to help the victim end the relationship he or she has with the devil. And then to replace that relationship with Jesus Christ. That is what exorcism is. Now, when you say the devil, obviously we're speaking about the demonic in general, but you're also talking about particular demons, not safe.

in himself, but you're talking about demons who are usually far below him in rank. But that's what your goal is, is to determine to see what these things are. And as I was saying, you've done this for years. So you become a diagnostician. You know what questions to ask, ideally, to get to the bottom of this. Right. Exactly. Yeah. And, you know, the demon that you're dealing with is one of the many. It could be Satan himself. It might be. It might not be. There are great many, as scripture tells us. You do have many that will identify themselves as Satan. They respond to the name Satan. They claim to be the Satan. But these are all liars. So you can, you have to take what they say in terms of the self-aggrandizement with a grain of salt. The only truth that they are

compelled to say and they're compelled to by force of prayer is to divulge how is it that they got inside, how is it that they're going to leave, and anything pertaining to that, such as their name, their primary activity, what gives them their power and so forth. Anything else other than that, they're not obliged to tell you the truth. What disgusts me or troubles me is that many Catholic priests, many Protestant ministers, all kinds of people who are in Christian leadership, have no concept of what you're talking about. So if somebody's suffering from these problems or things they might be and they go to their local church, they may not get answers. They may have somebody say to them, well, you should see a psychiatrist or see a therapist. That's often a good

idea, but it is often the wrong idea as well. So we've just got about a minute left before we go to hour two. What do you say to somebody? Where can people find real help? Is there a website? Is there a place that they can go? You know, there is no website, but what I would say is, find a clergy person, find someone who's going to give you a sympathetic ear because you hit the nail on the head in in in the last hundred years the christian churches have embraced a kind of of of materialism whereby we view everything in turn every every every there's no such thing as kind of spiritual illness that there there everything is a a psychological illness so if you're not well well then you need to go visit a shrink and the shrink will guide you into health and that does a disservice to

those who are afflicted. And I will say this, people who are afflicted, they may also have mental health. Oh, no, I was going to say it can be both. It can be a number of things. We're going to go to a break, plenty more an hour, too. You can go to exorcistfiles.tv to find out more exorcistfiles.tv