The Eric Metaxas Show - Samuel Mitcham (Encore)

Episode Date: September 10, 2022

Historian Samuel Mitcham in his book, "The Death of Hitler's War Machine," enlightens us with events from the end of World War II and the defeat of Nazi power. (Encore Presentation)

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m.investments.com. The Taxis show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Ladies and gentlemen, this is the Eric Mattaxas show. As you know, we have fascinating guests on this program, but the most important thing is that we pay for the program so that we can have the fascinating guests. So if you go to MyPillow.com or MyStore.com and use the code Eric, we'll be happy.

You can also go to Nutrametics.com and use the code Eric and we'll also be happy because we'd like to pay for the program. We think it's important to pay our bills. Listen, if you do that, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to have on a fabulous guest. Today, actually, specifically, I'm talking to Samuel Mitchum, who is the author of 40 books, the most recent of which is the death of Hitler's war machine. Samuel Mitchum, welcome to this program. Thank you very much. Listen, I love talking about history. I've written about history myself. I've not quite written 40 books. You've been doing this for a little while. When did you write your first book?

Oh, gosh. I was back in the late 70s. I actually have a distinction. I sold my first book twice. It came out in the early 80s, and I've been writing a book of a book a year. People say that I'm prolific. I don't think I'm very prolific at all. You, sir, are prolific. Before you- Great books, Bonhofer? I'm honored that you're aware of my books. Thank you very much. I'm excited to talk to you about your book, The Death of Hitler's War Machine, because I'm interested in that part of history. But before we get to that, it says, according to my notes, that before you started writing books, You were a U.S. Army helicopter pilot in Vietnam.

What years were you flying choppers in Vietnam? 1972, 73. I have to say that not many people can say that they did that. That's an extraordinary thing. Have you written about that experience? No. No, I won't. It still has a power to make me angry.

I did one article involving the Vietnam War, and I did it for the Journal of Soviet Military Affairs. They asked me to review a book, and I couldn't resist working for the Soviets at least once, just once. And I got a free book out of the deal. But no, I don't even think about it much anymore. You don't think about it. Are you willing to say why it makes you angry? Because we could have won. We made a lot of mistakes.

One of them was geographic, fighting in South Vietnam and not North Vietnam. Then you, of course, go back to Klausvitz, the famous military philosopher, who said to introduce into war the principle of moderation is absurdity. basically what we said is we can, the North Vietnamese are bullies and we can defeat them with one hand tied behind our back, which we proceeded to try to do. And frankly, failed. And there were a lot of good men wasted.

And the reverberations of that war echoed today. Unfortunately, that's true. Well, let's talk about a war that's slightly less controversial. It's called World War II. Your new book is called The Death of Hitler's War Machine. Tell us about that book, because most of us don't know enough about World War to history to think on this detail level. You're writing about the Wehrmach, the German army,

and what happened to them in the last year of the war roughly? Is that right? Well, basically the last five months, from the end of the Battle of the Bulls to the fall of Berlin and the surrender of what was left to the Third Reich. And really, you're talking about two different wars. On the Western Front, the German soldier was convinced that could not win. The end was near. They could see the fleets of Allied bombers flying on the war. their way to bomb Germany. And they also knew that

if they surrendered, there was a reasonably good chance that they would eventually get back home. The Russian front was characterized, however, by brutality. They were murdering civilians. They were mistreating prisoners.

You're talking about the Nazis. You're talking about the Nazis? Go ahead. When you say brutality, you're speaking on the part of the Nazis, not the part of the Soviets? On the part of the Soviets. So you're saying that I think what you're implying then is that the Nazis fought differently because they realized if they lost on the eastern front, it was not going to go as well for them as it would on the Western front. Well, not just the Nazis, the Germans. A lot of them were not Nazis, not Nazis,

but they were a German soldier, typical. German soldier was not a member of the Nazi party. Well, listen, thank you for clarifying that. My grandfather, to whom I dedicate my Bonhofer book, was one of those German soldiers. He was anti-Nazi, as far as I can tell. And one of my great uncles was captured by the Soviets at the end of the war, and he served eight years

in a Soviet prison camp. So this is personal history, for me. And it's horrifying to think that someone as wicked as the Nazi powers under Hitler were fighting someone in my estimation, at least equally wicked in the Soviets under Stalin. I think you're right. We tend to think of Hitler as the great mass murderer of the 20th century. I don't think we should. I think we just think of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Zetaun as the three greatest murderers of the 20th century. Yeah, I'm sorry to agree with you. Well, so tell us what led you to write a book of all things about the last five months and the destruction of the Vermeck? What brought you

to that subject for a book? Well, it's kind of an interesting thing. I was visiting the National Archives, and I was looking for information on a completely different subject. And they let me back into the area they don't let the general public. And I came into a big bay type office. There was only one guy in it. He was going through a filing cabinet with his back to me. And I wanted to attract this attention without yelling, hey, you. So I yelled out, can't you find it?

And he was startled. And he said, no, I can't. I said, what are you looking for? And he said, Hitler's last will and testament. And I said, is that here? He said, well, that's in the vault. Nobody gets to see that. I'm looking for a copy and ask him his name, and his name is Gerard Vechner.

How German can you get? And he knew I was. He had several of my earlier books, and we got in a discussion. And it lasted about an hour. Six-rate guys came in. There was a whole circle of people. And Garrard disappeared for a little bit. And he came back, and he had gone to the vault.

and checked out one of the four original copies of Adolf Hitler's Last Will and Testament. High-quality paper, leather-bound, it was an exquisite document. It was in the phyrotype. You know, Hitler needed glasses, but he didn't want the German people to know that. So he had special typewriters made with like 24-count font. I've never heard this. leave it to an historian to give us this kind of information. What year was it that you were in the National Archives when this happened?

I don't remember. It was back in the 80s. Okay, so this is quite a while ago. All right. But what was really surreal about this was Garrick said, close your eyes, put your nose against the paper, and smell it. And I did. And the odor of the Firobunker had actually permeated that paper. So just for a second, I had this sensation that I was in Hitler's bunker in 1945. You could smell the odor and the smoke and the dankness. That is, this is absolute.

I'm so glad I asked this question. This is fascinating. So this was in the 80s that you stumbled upon this. It's a little bit hard to believe that Hitler's bunker was as far away from the 80s as we are. from the 80s. True. It is. Makes you feel old, doesn't it? Yes, it does, but we're going to ignore that because this is show business. Folks, I am talking to Samuel Mitchum. The death of Hitler's war machine is the book.

The death of Hitler's war machine will be right back. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Biden administration has caused a financial crisis, and they have no clue how to fix it. Oil prices have skyrocketed, and when oil prices go up, the cost of transportation and shipping spikes, leading the prices of goods to rise. And when we're already seeing record inflation, that's the last thing we need. Our economy is in trouble, and you need to take steps to protect yourself. If all your money is tied up in stocks, bonds, and traditional markets, you are vulnerable.

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I lifted my head from the wheel, looked at Georg, and I said, wow. And he said, exactly. Because he says it gives you the sensation you were there. It really does. And I guess do we know where that last Will and Testament was found? Was it in the bunker? you're suggesting, obviously, that it was? No, it was in the bunker at the time,

but one of a major escaped, the encirclement took it home and buried it, and the American history department came looking for it. And once he was convinced that he wasn't going to get in trouble, he initially denied he had it. but when he was convinced he wasn't going to get arrested for possessing it, he turned it over, and it ended up in the National Archives. So you're saying that this document and this happenstance moment in 40 years ago,

the National Archives led to your interest in the last five months of the German Army's existence? That did. I also got a copy of Hitler's doctor's diary. He had a medical diary of Adolf Hitler, and you talk about the Furobunker. It was picked up by a British officer who was allowed to visit the Soviet zone. He went into the bunker, sat down, saw a journal on the floor, picked it up, and it was Hitler's medical doctor journal.

What is the name of that doctor? Tudor Morrell. Morrell. I mentioned him in my Bonhofer book. He was sort of a famous quack that was Hitler's guy. Kind of amazing. Did he survive the war? He did.

He died in prison, but he did survive the war. Natural causes. But, you know, sometimes as a historian, you just flat luck out. I had a fishing buddy whose daughter owned her own medical corporation, have several physicians working for. And he was interested in my work, but, you know, these drugs that Hitler was taking, some of them hasn't been manufactured since the late 40s, because he was taking handfuls of pills and drugs. And I couldn't interpret them. I took them to a cousin of mine who'd practiced medicine for 30 years. He couldn't tell me what they

were. They had expired. And my fishing buddy said, give it to me, I'll take it to my doctor, and she'll get it translated. And she had some of the junior physicians and her corporation go to the LSU. I think the LSU Medical Library, maybe it was too lame. And they researched these drugs. And I got that done for free. How much do you think it would cost me if I had to pay the doctors? but the conclusion was he had a vitamin toxicity.

He was taking so many vitamins that would have eventually killed in probably a few months. He was addicted to amphetamines or speed, and the active ingredient in his eyedrops was cocaine. In his eyedrops. Why was he taking eyedrops to begin with? He had some vision problems associated. with the assassination attempt of April of July 20, 1944.

They tried to blow him up. And it exacerbated his eye problem. He was beginning to need glasses anyway. And he took up to 19 applications of his eyedrops per day. And the active ingredient is cocaine. What will cocaine do for one's eyes? I've never heard of such a thing. Well, I'm not that kind of doctor, but it's what Dr. Morrell thought would work, and he prescribed it, and Hitler liked it.

So he up the dosage. Well, we're into the weeds here. I've got to, let's stay in the weeds. I want to ask you about Hitler's. You said he had a vitamin toxicity. I've never heard of such a thing. You can get a vitamin toxicity. You can take so many vitamins that will kill you.

You go, yes, you can. I mean, I guess it depends on the vitamin. We know vitamin C goes out into the draft, as it were, but there are other things that will stick with you and can pile up. Yes. But you said he was taking certain drugs. What were the drugs? Is that what we were talking about?

Those were the main ones. There were others. But the amphetamine would have killed you. the vitamin toxicity would have killed you, and the cocaine probably would have killed you, too. It's killed a lot of people. I didn't know before I read that medical journal that you could even take cocaine through your eyes, but you can. Well, so it was these things that led you into this period, and so your book, of course, is called the death of Hitler's war machine. So what is the takeaway?

What do most of us not know that you've written about in this book? Oh, most of them do not know about the brutality in the East and how the Russian terrorism actually increased German resistance and thus increased Soviet casualties. There were about two million rates in Eastern Germany and German territory. There were 103,000 reported cases of venereal disease in the United States. Berlin just from that one battle. And how many were raped that didn't get venereal disease? We'll never know. It was incredible. Also, I talk about the Wilhelm Gustav. I don't know if you've ever heard of that or not. No.

Greatest maritime disaster in the history of the world. Five times as many people were killed on the Gusov as were killed on the Titanic. And what was the Guslov? It was a passenger ship and they were because what the Russians were doing they were trying to get out of each Prussia, Palmyrana get away from the Russian army and they were putting

the ship was rated for 1,500 passengers. They put 10,000 on it. And it was wall-to-wall people. It was torpedoed 25 miles offshore by Russian submarine in January 1945. Was this out of the port of

Stettin or I can't remember where it is right up there on the Stetton. Stettin or Donzik. Stetton, okay. So 10,000 people were on the ship to escape the Russians. Where were they headed? Western Germany, Hamburg or Denmark's, anywhere to get away from the Russians. The German Navy evacuated more than 2 million people from the eastern. provinces, but they were desperate to get away. In fact, they had lines to get on the ship, and occasionally those lines were attacked by Russian fighter bombers. They wouldn't run for cover

because they'd lose their place in line. They took their chances with the bullets. This sounds a little bit like the fall of Saigon, a level of desperation most of us are simply not aware of. Yes, there was. Matter of fact, I tell a story, which I thought was rather interesting. The Germans didn't have shoes. And that was especially a problem with the children. They had lost their raw materials. The bandages were made out of paper now.

And the kids especially didn't have shoes because, you know, you and I could make our shoes last another year if we had to. But kids grow so fast. That won't work. And this young girl, as she was then, her father had been killed and eat. and her mother wanted them get out of there, but she was barefooted, and the temperature was zero degrees Fahrenheit. So what she did, she took the little girl and dipped her feet in cow manure and let it harden and did it again and again and again until this little girl

had cow paddy shoes. And she walked all the way across East Prussia and Palmyrani and half of Brandenburg to reach British lines and never suffered. the slightest repercussions to her health. It's just unimaginable what people went through. The title of your book is The Death of Hitler's War Machine. So you focus mostly, I suppose, on what happened to the Army and how Hitler deployed the Army. We're going to go to a break.

Folks, I'm talking to Samuel Mitchum. Am I saying that right? Mitchum, yes. Mitchum. The book is The death of Hitler's war machine. This is the Eric Mataxis show. We will be right back. Don't forget to go to ericmataxis.com.

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SEC. Hey there, folks. We're talking about the death of Hitler's war machine. A new book by Samuel Mitchum. You live in Monroe, Louisiana. Right. I have been duck hunting with Phil Robertson in in that neck of the woods. I don't know if you know those folks, but I happen to have been to your part of the world. They're good friends. We go to church together, and every Sunday we sit by each other.

Well, I'm a big fan of that guy and privilege to know him, so glad to know you do as well. If you're going to live in Monroe, Louisiana, you ought to know those folks. Well, your book is The Death of Hitler's War Machine, long ways from the world of Monroe, Louisiana. What do you write about in this book?

In other words, why would people be interested in reading this book? What is the news? Well, a military man would especially be interested, military woman, but also it was partially aimed at the civilians to let people know what Germany went through at the end of World War II. And sort of a subplot of that is the fact that the result of terrorism. Stalin deliberately applied a red terra, and it costing because resistance in the east was fierce at a time when resistance in the West was crumbling.

Like the battle of the Rura Pocket was the last major battle on the Western Front. We destroyed Germany's premier industrial area and captured it, and we captured over 300,000. German prisoners. And the total loss to the Americans was 17,000 killed and wounded. That's an incredibly lopsided victory. Had we been employing Stalin's tactics, our losses probably would have approached 300,000. So the brutality of the Soviets backfired on them because it caused the Germans to fight back. They figured that we've got nothing to lose, whereas in the West, obviously, they thought the Allies will go softer on us, and we may as well not fight that hard. That's true. I also have a little bit of different interpretation of the Hitler youth. In the

West, they surrendered quickly again. And the East, especially the Battle of Berlin, they were surprisingly effective. The Germans were mad at. producing what they call the Panzer Fost, shoulder-mounted, a single-shot anti-tank weapon. And the Soviet tanks were going through the streets of Berlin, block by block, clearing out resistance. And, you know, boys are fond of exploring, and they knew their way around the sewage systems. And these Hitler youth types would come in behind the Soviet tanks, where the armor is the thinnest, fire their single-shot anti-tank weapon at the thinnest part of the armor, boil up a tank, go down the sewage hole,

and repeat the process again and again and again. They destroyed an estimated 700 Russian tanks. That's more than enough to equip, as you know, an entire tank army. Nothing like that happened in the West. That is amazing. Yeah, obviously, anybody familiar with Berlin at this period knows that it was, well, it was its own world, really. I mean, you see pictures of Hitler coming out of the bunker to greet some of these boys, basically, who were fighting. It was a strange time.

Well, you know, when you got an anti-tank weapon and you're firing at a tank, it really doesn't matter if you're a 20-year veteran. of the Green Berets are a 14-year-old Hitler youth. The explosion is going to be just as powerful. And so these Hitler youth types did a lot better as combat soldiers, and they're normally given credit for us to feel sorry for them, and I do. But nevertheless, they were pretty formidable in Berlin. It's amazing. I think you suggest in your book that Hitler's mania at this point made him deploy the army differently, that he didn't really, he didn't seem to care. He treated these human beings as cannon fodder. Tell us a little bit about that. Well, I think Adolf Hitler was always on a delicate mental perch. And I think about

September, 1942, he fell off of it and became increasingly, a megalomaniac act and insane. I think he was insane. I get asked that frequently was Hitler crazy. And my old answer is always when. When was, what are you talking about? 1923? No.

1945? Absolutely. And I think the turning point was in September 1942 and it was partially drug induced. What drugs was he on that would have tipped him off of his perch as you put it? Well, the amphetamines and the cocaine. I think those are the big two. It's hard.

I know your doctorate is not in medicine, but it's hard not to speculate from the point of view of somebody who takes demonology seriously that he had to have open himself up to demonic influences. I don't, it has to be the case. I don't know what evidence we have, but maybe we'll talk about that in the next segment, unless you've got a brief comment. Not really. I think he was, I don't think he was the Antichrist, but I think he was in that second row of anti-Christian. I think he was evil. I think there were demonic influences, But I don't address that. All right.

We're going to go to a break here. We're talking to the author of The Death of Hitler's War Machine. I hope you're intrigued because I certainly am. We'll be right back. My Pillow is having their biggest sheet sale of the year. You've all helped build my pillow into the amazing company it is today. Now, Mike Lindell, inventor and CEO wants to give back exclusively to my listeners. That's you.

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Folks, we're talking to the author Samuel Mitchum, AM, not UM, like Robert. The book is The Death of Hitler's War Machine. And we're talking about, obviously, the last years of the war. So what was it that Hitler was doing at this point. Now, that he didn't seem to be playing the long game. This was all or nothing, at least on the Russian front. Well, the period of Hitler acting

was over. The allies were acting. Hitler was reacting. He, Rommel called it, the desert fox, said he was in a cloud cuckoo land. And

that's pretty accurate. He was just trying to deal with the highest flame, lashing out, totally irrational. A great example of that is Helmut Velding. He was commander of the 56 Panzer Corps, and he came into Hitler's presence in the bunker, and Hitler's first words out of his mouth were, Velding, I will have you shot. And by the end of their meeting, Hitler had named him commandant of Berlin. And Veldin locked out of Hitler's office there into the main room and said, I would rather he had me shot. And I think he was only half kidding.

That's pretty irrational. You know, I'm going to kill you, and now 15 minutes later, you're in command of the Capitol. That's sort of the way Hitler was. Fagelin was his brother-in-law, he had him shot after he had decorated him with some of the highest decorations in Nazi Germany. Excuse me, when you say brother-in-law, how was Fagelin his brother-in-law? He married Eva Brahms' sister. So became his brother-in-law, brother-in-law to be, I guess. Well, they were, the sisters were, yeah.

Of course, he was cheating on Hitler's sister. But she nevertheless, I misspoke. They were cheating on Eva Braun's sister. Yeah, yeah. Well, I guess at this point, it does seem that Hitler was not able to think rationally. A rational person would have understood the situation in these last months, but he somehow believed mystically that he would be exonerated that they could still somehow win. Was there any possibility of that?

What was he hoping might happen? Oh, he grasped at straws during the seven years. with Frederick the Great, the Russian Tsar died, and Russia pulled out and it allowed Prussia to survive when it looked as if all was lost. He cited that history, and that actually did happen. He, human beings, some of them especially, have an infinite capacity for self-delusion, and Hitler was deluding himself. Any indication, that things might change. He grasped it. And Franklin Delano Roosevelt died in April 45, just shortly before Hitler. And Hitler took that as proof that history was going to repeat itself, and the Allied alliance was going to collapse. And, you know, obviously didn't. And who recorded that? I'm just curious. Do you remember who it was that heard him? say these things?

Oh, there were many. But Paul Joseph Gerbils wrote extensively in his diary about that, which we have copies of most of it. Some of it was lost. He was a invertebrate writer. He always wrote down everything he thought. But let me say. There were others.

Kidal, the Field Marshal, Titchell. head of the Armed Forces High Command. He wanted to believe it, and he wrote about it as well. It's just amazing. We've just got a couple of minutes left. I'm enjoying this very much. We're talking to Samuel Mitchum. The book is The Death of Hitler's War Machine. What is the main thing that people who are students of the war would learn from your book that they didn't know. Let's put it that way. Oh, it really depends on the student. It gives an overview of the German armed forces at the end of the war, whether it was a Western Front, Eastern Front, Italy, Louvoffa, the German civilians, it covers the waterfront. It's chronological rather than one theme. We haven't even touched on the Air War, which was tremendous. You know, in Dresden, you talked about that. The fire bomb could be seen for 60 miles, and the asphalt caught on fire. The streets burned, and asphalt burns at 750 degrees Fahrenheit, so it was hotter than that.

They created hell on earth. But the Germans had a strangely grim sense of humor about it all. They joked about these things and said, well, if the Allies keep buying it, they're going to have to start bringing their own targets because all they're doing now is shuffling the rubble. And they said, well, it's easier to believe in final victory than to run around Berlin without your hit. Yes. Do you ever wonder whether we needed to hit Dresden in that way and kill those civilians? Is that something that we just have to chalk up the way we do, the Adam bomb? What is your take on that?

I think we didn't have to. We were asked to by Stalin. We cooperated with our allies. And I think we should have found a way not to do that. Does it ever make you sick that we were in bed with Stalin? It's so strange to me that I don't know what to think of that. Well, is the enemy of my enemy, my friend, philosophical question that's been asked for. centuries. Each individual will have to answer that. I wish we hadn't allied with him or hadn't been

necessary. But my takeaway is the big winner of World War II was the Soviet Union Stalin. And unfortunately, that is also my takeaway, reluctant takeaway. But Samuel Mitchum, it's been wonderful to meet you and to speak with you. The book is The Death of Hitler's War Machine. Sir, Thank you for your work. Hey there, folks. Before we go, we just want to remind you of homework. There's a lot of homework that we ask you to do. If the dog eats your homework, we don't want to hear about that.

We want you to not tell us about that. Here's the homework. It's a lot of homework, Albin. I don't know if even as the teacher, I have trepidation. First of all, folks, we need you to support our sponsors. on this program. We need your help. Our sponsors on the program are Mike Lindell with my pillow.com and my store.com. Nutrametics, nutrametics.com. If you use the code Eric at any of those places, we have revenue shares with them. So it helps us pay for the radio program. But as you know,

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The first chapter will give you heart palpitations because of what this guy has been through. He was, as you know, addicted to cocaine, super high functioning crazy man and genius. But God turned his life around. And he is now one of the great American heroes who has, he's living his whole. life to try to store integrity to our voting process. And I just want to recommend to you, if you know anyone who doesn't know about my pillow.com or my store.com and to use the code Eric, please tell your friends to go to those places and to use the code Eric. Yeah. And on top of all that that Mike Lindell has accomplished, he has made a great, I mean a great cup of coffee. If you

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It's my coffee from my store.com. Please use the code Eric. Otherwise, it doesn't taste that good. It's a little bitter if you don't use the code Eric. But it is almost funny. So your homework, of course, is to support mystore.com, mypillow.com,

neutrametics.com, and use the code Eric. Also, please sign up for the news, letter at Eric Mataxis.com. That's my personal website. There's all kinds of information that we really never get to share with you photographs. We have a bunch of Socrates in the city events coming up one September 27th here in New York City with Andrew Claven. We now have one happening in Houston with James Torr, Holy Cow, in Houston on October 12th. We'll have more coming up this fall. It's very exciting. A lot of stuff going on. And I'm speaking,

everywhere because it's just such a busy season in my life, but I'm going to be in Colorado Springs all weekend. My new book is Letter to the American Church, and I'm speaking everywhere I go. I'll be reading it this weekend, so I'm excited. I'm frightened at the thought of you're reading it. When my friends read my books, it kind of scares me. It's like, what are they going to think? They're going to think, I don't know about this one, Eric. Folks, we are grateful to all of you for being a part of what we try to do here by God's grace. So thanks for tuning in.