The Eric Metaxas Show - Sarah Berger

Episode Date: December 7, 2022

Sarah Berger has written a powerful book about dealing with tragedy and grief and provides some remedies in "Hope in the Eleventh Hour: A Mother's Journey through Grief with Eternal Eyes."

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. The Texas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey, folks, part of the fun of this program is I get to have conversations with people that I think of as friends, whether it's by Skype or actually in person. Over the years, I've just been to so many parts of this country and made sense.

so many wonderful friends. Two of them are Steve and Sarah Berger, who pastor to church in Leepers Fork, Tennessee. And we've just, I don't know how many times I've been there. And Sarah has a book out called Hope in the 11th Hour, a mother's journey through grief with eternal eyes. Sarah Berger, my friend, welcome. Thank you so much, friend. I'm so honored. I'm so honored to be on the show.

This is, I know the story of your losing your 19-year-old son. You said it happened about 13 years ago, but the fact that you've written about it, it doesn't really get more important than this. So tell us your story. Tell my audience your story of what happened. And I don't know how many years you and Steve have been married, how many kids you have, but give us the background on the story. Okay, well, the background of the story would be, well, for one, Steve and I have been married 35 years. We moved across the country from California to Tennessee, planted the church, and pastored it for 26 years and passed the baton, actually two years ago, Eric, and are now involved with ministry to government officials in D.C.

with our new nonprofit ASI. But all of that being said, we have four children. Three of them live in our local area in Williamson County, Tennessee, and our son Josiah lives in the kingdom and has been, I'm sure, with joy for the last 13 years. Yeah. It's unbelievable. I remember when I heard that story, you know, it's everybody's nightmare. But, you know, I have to say that.

the one thing about somebody leaving this world is it makes the other world more real to us. It's not just some vague idea. We know it is real and I know people who are there and I look forward to seeing them, which is actually appropriate. It's at least appropriate. But tell the story. How did this happen, Sarah? Well, Josiah was leaving for UT Knoxville in just a few days.

He was wanting to go visit some friends at our local Sonic. Just a few minutes down the road kissed me on the cheek, left for Sonic. And we'll never know. It's not even important at this point to be true. But Josiah was in an unexplainable sequel car accident. He had his seat belt on and airbag went off. he wasn't speeding, but he suffered head trauma. And I believe, honestly, Eric, that he was with the king immediately.

We kept his tent on life support, praying and believing for a miracle. And sovereign God chose to take him home, to keep him home, I want to say. So, you know, in those moments, you just trust Father God, right? you believe and pray and believe for healing because he instructs us and tutors us that way. But when he decides to take a saint in Christ home, knowing where they're going and all that awaits them certainly helps a parent, a family member. Because they are, in fact, in the great cloud of witnesses, right, Eric? Wildly alive in the kingdom. We get that.

This is the truth of the word of God. This is why he came. Interesting to me because I've been, you know, obviously I'm always going places and speaking. And in the course of talking about my new book, Letter to the American Church, I keep bumping up against this idea that do we really believe what we say we believe? When we talk about the idea that Jesus defeated death on the cross, do we really, do we know that that's true? We're supposed to know. We're not supposed to say, well, I hope so. no no no no that's not god's will it's god's will that you know what is true and that you actually

look forward to heaven and a lot of us are kind of living in half measures in the shadow lands we don't really know and god wants us to know he wants us to know that this is true and to live as though it's true and if you know that it's true you're going to live differently and so when i hear of somebody like you and steve whom i know are profound believers. You know this stuff. So it's different when you lose a child, even though it's still horrible in the natural, it's different. And I think of the people who don't know what you know or what I know, that it's true. And you think then it becomes unbearable. And I know that you write about this, that marriages routinely fall apart when a child is lost because there's no way

to cope. Yes. Yeah. Well, knowing The Word of God is prerequisite to walking through grief. You know, you have to know the word and have it established in your heart. You know, we found it confounding, Eric, when Josiah first left for heaven, that people would approach us and say, we're so sorry, you lost your son, or that he died so young. And we, in fact, had used probably that same language, possibly before having. having experienced it ourselves. But the Holy Spirit in you goes, okay, there's friction here.

What's what's wrong with what's being said? And at the end of the day, it was the truth that our sons alive in the kingdom. So why would we refer to him as dead? And why would we say he's lost when we know, in fact, where he is? So culture dictates the church so much. It's horrifying. And hasn't the last two years or so been a litmus test when we find so many believers scared to death of death when in fact the word says to live as Christ to die as gain? I mean, these are hard things.

I'm not just casually throwing them out. We know that it's devastating when a child or. or a loved one leaves for the kingdom, but we have to embrace the truth that we know. And God will show up in crazy, miraculous ways if we open our eyes to see his comfort. And that's kind of why I wrote this book, Eric, to pry open the eyes of folks

that are walking through Greece, established believers, that they might understand his comfort, through dreams, through visions, through the word, through other nuances. He scripts these unbelievable Godnots in order to bring us comfort. It is amazing.

I was going to ask you why you chose to write about this. And folks, the book is Hope in the 11th Hour. And I'm talking to the author, Sarah Berger. But to write a book about this in some ways, you know, it means reliving it and so on and so forth. So yeah, what was it, especially after 13 years, that you actually thought, I want to write a book about this? Yeah.

Well, to be true, the Holy Spirit had been telling me to do it for years. And to me, a non-author, I'm an accidental author. That didn't sound like fun. I had so many other ministry opportunities happening, so I kind of circled around it until he finally, he told me you're being a wicked servant. And we know what scripture says. You're wicked and lazy.

You know, Sarah, I've asked you to do this one thing and you've not done it. So I took it very seriously, began writing. And through the writing, it was cathartic because he was reminding me of all that he'd done for our family just to be reminded of his goodness. But lastly and not least, for my grandchildren and for those in the Christian community that are part of the body of Christ for them to understand and embrace the truth of heaven and therefore not be afraid of death, Eric. There's no, listen, Sarah, this is, that's the point.

When we come back, I want to talk, I want to talk exactly about that. Folks, I'm talking to Sarah Berger, the book, New Book, Hope in the 11th Hour, A Mother's Journey Through Grief with Eternal Eyes. Don't go away. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Biden administration has caused a financial crisis and they have no clue how to fix it. Oil prices have skyrocketed. And when oil prices go up, the cost of transportation and shipping spikes leading the prices of goods to rise. And when we're already seeing record inflation, that's the last thing we need.

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Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Sarah Berger, who has written a book called Hope in the 11th Hour, A Mother's Journey Through Grief with Eternal Eyes. And Sarah, I was asking you, you know, why you wrote this, and you were telling me, God told me to write it, or politely asked me to write it, and then you dragged your feet,

and then finally you understood that this is a mission because what you were saying before we went to the break and what I was saying before that is that God wants us to live with hope and joy and peace. And if we don't know that he defeated death on the cross, that you may have lost your son to this world, but you didn't lose your son. Unless we know these things, not hope, but unless we know this is true, we can't really live the lives God wants us to live. before living in fear, in fear of death or whatever. If you live in fear of death, it means you don't believe what the Bible says about death.

And folks, that's not God's will. So it seems to me that that's at the heart of your mission. That's really at the heart of the mission. And what's surprising, Eric, and it's heartbreaking, is that folks don't know the word of God. So if you don't know the word, you don't give the Holy Spirit a lot to work with. because what I've found through this walk is how the Lord will remind us as he does and he promises to remind us of Scripture that he'll bring things to heart. And we miss out if we don't recognize his still small voice reminding him of Scripture. I mean, this is one example, but it changes you.

It changes your perspective. When Saya first left for heaven, he kept repeating to me, taught. time and time again, the body of Christ, the body of Christ. And at one point I finally went, wait a minute, is that you, Holy Spirit? What are you telling me? And he said, would I cut off my arm? Would I cut off my leg? Nor have I cut off Josiah from the body of Christ.

And I began to realize, oh my gosh, why is it, Father, that I've always entertained this idea that there's one body of Christ? on heaven's side and one on earth side, two separate things. One, in fact, we're one. The body of Christ goes right through the veil. The veil is of no consequence to those that are found in Christ. He told me, Josiah is a finger on heaven's side and you're a toe on earth side and you are still connected. And so truths like that just, they touch the grief wound of separation. And so this fear of dying that believers have, I think they want to cling, feeling like I want to cling the family here, and I get that. I'm not pretending that doesn't. I don't want to leave immediately.

Eric, I'm waiting for the rapture. I want to fly away with my entire family. I don't want to visit this grief again, but I know that I know everybody that I leave behind here that are found in Christ, I'm going to see again. And by the way, you touched upon this. Earth is a shadow of heaven, right? We get it so wrong and we think, oh, heaven might resemble Earth a little bit. No, no, no, no, no. Everything good and beautiful here on Earth is only a shadow of how crazy rad. Heaven is Earth on steroids and everything good and only everything good, right?

So why would we fear that? And Josiah still is my son. You touched upon that. He's still my son. Christians like they let culture dictate like your son is gone. How many are in your family? Well, I guess I only have three kids. No, no, no.

I have four. One just happens to be located in the kingdom, right? So we just, we need to dive into the word. We need to dive in and get it straight. It's interesting because, again, we're just talking about living out what we claim is our faith. And according to what we say we believe, there could be nothing more glorious than leaving this earth and going to be with the Lord. Now, we state that, but we're supposed to know that that is actually true.

It's not a nice idea. It's actually true. You know, C.S. Lewis calls this world the shadow lands. And as you were saying that heaven, this is to me like a big one, heaven is more real, infinitely more real. than this reality. So it's not like, you know, wispy clouds and where, you know, it's going to be more real.

The colors more vivid. In other words, whatever it is that's here is a faint glimpse of what is there. And we need to know that. We're going to live differently if we know that that's true. We're going to live more courageously

because we know, by the way, you can't kill me. I love your idea. idea about the idea of the body of Christ being in both. You know, what's interesting, Sarah, is that the Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox, they get this better than we do. They talk about, you know, when they talk about the saints and whatever, it's like when we're worshiping, we're all worshiping together. Yes. It's a continuous reality. We need to live in that reality, folks. This is not, it's, it's, you're contradicting what you say you believe if you don't live in

that reality. But that's so beautiful, the idea that the body of Christ is the body of Christ. And actually, it also helps us define the body of Christ that unless you are born again, you're not part of the body of Christ. Because when you're born again, you are with him, you're seated with him in heavenly places. Even though you're still here, you are seated with him in heavenly places. So you are already in eternity by virtue of the Holy Spirit living inside of you. you just haven't been translated fully to be in eternity. But I mean, these are things we need to understand because guess what? This is called reality.

This is God's reality. It's not just some Christian gloss on reality. Yeah. You know, Hebrews 12-1, right? Therefore, since we're surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, and then it goes on, and if you unfold it, and I would encourage people, open your word, read it for yourself, it really is a holy accountability to the saints that have gone before us. I mean, the Lord knew it would bring comfort to anybody that has a loved one that's left for heaven

to know that perhaps at any time he may pull back the veil and allow them to look in. I mean, there's something really groovy about that. But it's also about a holy accountability that at any moment, like, I want to be accountable to Jesus first, and foremost, but he knows that family's important. And the idea of Saya being able to peer in on occasion makes me as mom want to live that much more for the kingdom to make my boy proud. Not just Jesus, but even family. I want Josiah to go, mom, I'm so proud of you. You know I'm alive. You know heaven's real. Go, mom, go. But it is, it's a holy accountability. not just about the comfort of those verses right there.

Well, it's beautiful to me that you talk about grieving with hope. Because, you know, again, in this broken world in which we live that doesn't understand this stuff, that has a fundamentally pagan view, which is an anti-God view. Let's cut to the chase. It's an anti-God. It says God is a liar and that's all garbage and this is the reality. Wrong. It's not the reality.

And God wants us even to grieve. with hope. So talk about that concept of grieving with hope. Well, there's so much to unpack there, but I would say in the immediate, it's about Jesus, right? It's about Him bringing salvation. And I can grieve with hope because I know our Josiah is in heaven. Okay? So I want to encourage people out there that have family members that have gone on before them to allow the Lord to bait you into eternal perspective by that loved one having crossed through the veil.

Like, don't just stand here grieving in mourning. Go, wait a minute, there's something here. And it causes me to look more to Jesus, to contemplate heaven all the more. You know, in 2 Corinthians for how it talks about, for we do not look at the things that are seen, but the things that are unseen, because the things that are seen are perishing,

but the unseen things are eternal. That's eternal perspective, you guys. We have to focus in not on just earth and getting our, just being anchored here. You know, our hope is an anchor that's like cast through the veil, right? So I just have to see myself as being anchored and tethered to eternity. and to all that have gone before me. And, you know, listen, we also have to understand that this is Jesus,

the Lord's intent was never for mankind to experience death, right, Eric? In the garden, we were created to be eternal. And then the fall came. So we're going to wrestle and have friction. And it's not easy to walk, you know, in the eternal hope 24th. seven, but we have to make the cognizant decision because it's right and good. Jesus died to defeat death hell and the grave. We are born again in him and we have to be anchored in that hope. When the storms come, right, we're standing on the rock. I got to, we're going to have a final

segment coming up. It's just so good and important. I'm talking to Sarah Berger. The book is hope in the 11th hour. We'll be right back. Folks, if you're running a business, your employees can create all kinds of interesting situations, like getting complaints because somebody on the team smells horrible. You better talk to Bambi. With Bambi, you get access to your own dedicated HR manager starting at just $99 a month. They're available by phone, email, real-time chat, so onboarding and terminations run smoothly.

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So you get the same great service while supporting a company that's fighting to preserve our God-given rights and freedoms. Patriot Mobile also offers a performance guarantee. If you're not happy with your coverage, you can switch to either of the three major carriers they provide for free. Go to Patriot mobile.com slash Eric or call their 100% U.S.-based customer service team at 972 Patriot. Get free activation today with the offer code Eric. If you're fed up with the woke companies that don't care about your values or our country, support a company that does, Patriotmobile.com slash Eric or call 972 Patriot. Patriot mobile.com slash Eric. Let's welcome back. I'm talking to my friend Sarah Berger, who's written a book, Hope in the 11th hour,

a mother's journey through grief with eternal eyes. Sarah, we were talking earlier about, I mean, I didn't mention that one of my favorite scriptures, you know, Romans 828, all things work together for good for those that love the Lord and are called according to his purpose, all things, even the thing that everybody would say, no, no, no, that's just, you know, pure horrible, the loss of a child or something. And then you realize, well, one thing that happens, of course, is that God can use that to bring us closer to himself and to make the reality of him more real to us, which of course is his will. So when you talk about grieving with hope. I just think that something is happening where people who say they believe, they're

understanding that, well, I'm not really believing with my whole heart and mind and soul. I say I believe, but I want to know that this is true. I want to know so that I live in a different way because it's God's will for me to live as though I know these things are true, not just that it's some religious part of me. So God wants us to be really, really. faithful to him with our thoughts and our hopes and everything. And it's not a chore. It's the joy that he calls us to. And sometimes it comes through things like this, which is, you know, I'm sure there are plenty of people listening who've experienced, you know, grief. And I want them to grieve the way the Lord wants them to grieve, not with the world's grief, but with the grief that God says,

this is how you grieve when you know me. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I, you know, I would say to that quickly, Eric, is it is a joy to seek the Lord through these hard, hard times only in that you find him there, but it is a discipline because you're so vulnerable. And your heart is so shattered. I mean, in the word how it speaks, how he promises he's near to those with a broken heart and saves those who have a contrite spirit, that near means. he's allied. Literally, in Hebrew, it means he's your ally. He's fighting for you. You literally, it's the spirit in you that moves you forward, Eric. You know an obedience to seek him, but you're

vulnerable and weak and you're obliterated. And I mean, honestly, there's times that you feel suffocated. It's so hard to even breathe when a child leaves for heaven. But I want to leave the listeners with this because I think it will bring them hope and maybe cause them to remember how the Lord has been near and quite possibly they've missed him because I think many would say and I've heard that I've heard them say it myself he's not near me I've not heard him he's not been faithful he's not shown up the way that I I want him to it's like okay hold on in Job 33 it talks about how God speaks this way and that and that and and man doesn't perceive it through a dream and a vision by night.

Okay, that's one way he might speak. It says also in Job 33 that he speaks twice and three times to save a man out of the pit. So listen to what's repeating in your heart and mind. Pay attention. It may be the Lord wanting to break through and say something to you. And then later in Job, I believe it's in Job 33. It talks about how he commands nature. He's the one that commands an eagle to light, you know, on a branch.

He commands nature. Pay attention. Will he might speak to you through a cardinal even landing on your, you know, the rail of your porch or the word of God or an angelic visitation? I fear that many miss it in the midst of their vulnerability and their anguish. They're not hearing God. and he is the God of all comfort. All means all. He'll use crazy things, probably outside of the box that people possibly have put him in to speak.

Yeah, I mean, I know God speaks. He's spoken to me in innumerable ways, and he speaks to everyone differently. He never contradicts the Bible. So, folks, that's an impossibility. If it contradicts what the Bible says, it ain't God. But people shouldn't be afraid to open their hearts. hearts and minds to hear from God however he wants to speak because listen folks he loves us where his children he wants to communicate with us and when you say things like god doesn't care about me or

god's not talking to me that's a lie from the pit of hell don't repeat it because that i can guarantee you that is a lie that is not true um but i think it is important as you're saying to open ourselves lord how do you want to speak to me uh let's not let's not close off anything god speak to me i'm your You know how to speak to me. You made me. But I'm glad you're, I'm glad you're putting it that way, because sometimes people are, they're rigid in how God should speak to them. Mm-hmm. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And his grace is sufficient, right? I mean, the Lord spoke that to Paul, when Paul was suffering. You know, he had a thorn in his side. He was going through it. And the Lord said, my, my grace is sufficient for you, for in your weakness, I am.

made strong. So if that's all you can cry out, if that's all you can hear or know scripturally, you know, just keep on, keep in line and say that. Repeat it. Your grace is sufficient. Your grace is sufficient for me. And anybody who has walked with God struggles, folks. Sometimes, you know, you say, Lord, where are you? Where are you? So, you know, that's normal. But we can trust him. I know it. Sarah, I'm just so grateful that you finally ceased being the wicked servant and wrote this book because a lot of people need to hear what you're saying. So the book is called Hope in the 11th hour, A Mother's Journey Through Grief with Eternalized, Hope in the 11th Hour by Sarah Berger. Sarah, thank you so much. Thank you so much, Eric. I'm honored. Tell me, Eric, why is relief factors so

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Welcome back talking to Kevin McCull about the news of the day. Now, actually, Kevin, part of the news of the day is that as of, I guess, yesterday, we on this program launched a campaign for this month to free slaves. This sounds like it's a metaphor, but we mean. this literally, folks, which is why I use the word literally carefully. We're not talking about people who are enslaved in quotes. We're talking about people who are actually being enslaved in the southern Sudan. And if you go to metaxis talk.com and click on the banner, you'll see it right at the top. You can help free them because CSI, Christian Solidarity International,

have been involved in this for decades. They know they have relationships there. They know what to do, what can be done. So this is an amazing opportunity. And Kevin, because we've just begun this, this month, I thought it would be good to get you to talk about it because you're familiar with CSI and with how they do what they do. Yeah. Well, I've had the great humbling honor to be a spokesperson for them for the last 10 years or so. And one of the things that I cannot get away from, and for the people that are watching your show on Rumble

or wherever you post it. I want you to see the picture of this lady's face that I'm holding up to the camera right there. You can't see it very much, but I think you can at least get a glimpse of the smile. This is a woman by the name of a choke, and her story is very similar to many of the stories that you will hear about and you will read about in the work of CSI. But when she was taken into slavery, and a lot of this happened during the Sudan Civil War, which was, I think, 1995. And when the Arabs from the northern section of what was then the United Sudan would travel down into the southern regions where the Christians were, they would ransack villages, they would rampage through towns, they would kill lots of the men and boys, they would grab and take captive the women and children and begin marching them towards the north.

These were the spoils of war. This is what's happened since the beginning of time. But when they were put into slavery, they were treated completely inhumane. And I could detail some of what they've gone through, a choke, the ladies who's a picture I just showed you, she was systematically abused. The moment she was taken into captivity as a nine-year-old girl. and just imagine the trauma, the unsettledness of your psyche of the world and life you know. You're helping your mom pick crops and make dinner one day. And the next thing, you know, you're being systematically raped by your captors multiple times in just your trip to the north.

When you get to where you're going, you're sold to the sloth. slave master from the raiders. The slave master then rapes you systematically, regularly, may cause you to have two or three children regularly let his sons or his business associates have their way with you as well. And over time, as a person, you become very desensitized and you withdraw within yourself. And there's almost an otherworldliness that you're kind of living in because it's just a protection mechanism for all the pain that you're experiencing.

But then you add on top of that every day you're told to go and to do all of the laundry, to do all of the chores, to do all of the stuff without really being fed. You've fed scraps that fall off the table from the family. The wives of the slave masters hate you because you represent a lack of sexual identity with them. and if you have kids, they really hate you. Your children are allowed to be with you until they are weaned. And once they are weaned, they are taken from you because obviously the slave master believes they are his. And when you go through all of these things, you're having constantly verbal abuse leveled your way.

They call them a name that we can't even translate in American media because it's so vulgar. The meaning of it is so vulgar. it wouldn't be allowed to be on broadcast radio or television. So this is how they are treated for year after year after year, an unrelenting wave of just constant abuse. Many of these girls were Christians raised in Christian homes. When they find themselves in these situations, the Arab master says you have to become a Muslim woman now.

In order to be a good Muslim woman, you have to go down to the creek. Here's a rusted lid from a tin can. you have to cut out the piece of your sexual organ that gives you pleasure. And you're not allowed to have pleasure in your sexual activity for the rest of your life. There's no sterilization as sterile facilities. There's no clean instruments. None of this has done. Many of the girls have gotten very bad infections and died from this procedure.

But you're lucky enough a choke is to survive and then to carry on with your life there in those conditions as such that it is. for a few more years. Your kids are taken away from you. Then you hear about a retriever. Somebody called a retriever, not a raider, but a retriever. And these are Arabs that are working with the Christians in the South. And they come up and they find the slaves and they ask, are you a slave. Do you want to go home?

And if they find them, they enter into a negotiation in which they earn their liberation and they are returned to home. They are given everything they need to start a life all over again, a bag of hope. And when they are returned to their home village or where they're from, the celebration and the explosion of happiness and joy is as euphoric in its intensity as the suffering has been in what they have experienced. It doesn't last as long, but it certainly is just as intense because it's like the prodigal son only wasn't a prodigal that left. They were taken against their will and the homecoming is that much greater.

when you explain all of this to people, Eric, and you say you can take a woman who's living in that kind of existence of death and you can take her to life back home with everything she needs to start her life on her own for $250 one-time gift in this day and age. And let me tell you everything that's in the bag of hope. It's a year's worth of food. It's a year's worth of seed to plant the next year's food. It's utensils to garden, fish, and cook with. It's all of the blankets and tarps that you need to have a sleeping structure. It's a she-goat that will allow you to have a micro enterprise to breed more goats and to sell them and find a way to live. But all of that in your gift for $250 is what's good.

I want to keep you on to continue talking. But folks, you've heard this. It is our honor to participate in this. It is an honor and a privilege that we get to participate. please go to metaxis talk.com. You'll see the banner, metaxis talk.com. We'll be right back. Folks, welcome back.

We're talking to our friend Kevin McCullough, and what we're talking about, you talk about what's the news of the day. The news of the day is that people are being monstrously enslaved this minute while we're having these conversations. The news of the day is also that there's something we can do about it. Kevin, when you shared the evil, the unbelievable evil that men and women are suffering in southern Sudan where monstrous people are allowed to persecute torture and slave, rape, it's hard for us to take it in. And I think that we in the West, who are so blessed and so privileged,

we cannot fathom that this evil is happening. While we have our little battles over this or that, this is going on in the world, folks. This is not history. This is happening now, right now. And we have the tremendous privilege. It is a privilege to do something about it, even to hear the story, to know how grateful we are. are, or I'm sorry, to know how blessed we are, so that we can have gratitude to God that we are not suffering those things. And that because of our freedom and because of our largesse, because of our abilities, our relative wealth, we can actually be a part of redeeming what has been broken, destroyed. I want to remind people, metaxis talk.com is the website.

I'm ataxistocococ.com. You'll see at the top there's a banner and there's a phone number, which I will give just because some people would prefer to call. Folks, you've got to do this. You have to do it. This Christmas season, you've got to participate in this to some extent, whatever you can do. The number is 888-253-3522. 8-288-288-253-35-25- 22, 888-253, 3522. Kevin, you said that $250, if somebody gives that, of course, this is tax deductible. But if you give that amount to CSI, you are single-handedly not only freeing someone from these satanic conditions, but you're also enabling them to get started in a future in freedom. you just detailed what what they get they don't just get taken out of they get everything everything they need to start their life over again and i showed you the picture of a choke for a reason she has a huge smile on her face and for someone who has gone through 15 or 16 or 17 years of ritual abuse to the point where you become numb you've you withdrawing to yourself you don't even really understand what's going on around you for them to come out of that and to have a smile like that and to express thank giving to God to reuse their Christian name again. There is so much that they have to be thankful for.

And yet, Eric, almost every single one of them that comes out as they are talking to the CSI liberators at the liberation camp on the border of the two sedans, they say the same thing again and again and again. Thank you, God, for setting me free. Thank you to the Christians in America who got me free. Now, please don't forget the ones that are still there. And at the peak of slavery, there were about 185,000 to CSI's credit and people listening to your show and mine and others over the last number of years. We have helped liberate more than 135,000 of those people. But that leaves somewhere in the neighborhood of about 45,000 slaves and children to go. And they need our help.

We're at, we're at a time. Folks, you've just got to participate in this. You give what you can by the grace of God. evil is real. We need to face it and we need to do what we can. Metaxistococococcom is the website. Please go to Metaxistock.com. Click on the banner. Tell your friends. This is an amazing thing that we get to do. Kevin McCullough, thank you.