The Eric Metaxas Show - Skillet - John & Korey Cooper (Encore)

Episode Date: April 28, 2020

John and Korey Cooper, two members of the hugely popular Christian rock band, Skillet, tell their story of forming the band and staying the course of marriage and family. (Encore Presentation)

You know, comparing Eric Mataxis to any other radio show host is a lot like comparing apples and, oh, I don't know. Oranges, perhaps? Yes, that's it. Precisely, oranges. Ripe, luscious, supple oranges dripping with sticky sweet juice. Another day or two, and they'll be rotten and inedible. But today, oh, they're glorious and inviting. Just like Eric.

And now, Orange's you glad he's here? Eric Mattaxas. Hey there, folks, is the Eric Mattaxas show, hour two of today's show. but we're continuing the conversation with Tyler O'Neill. The new book is called Making Hate Pay, the Corruption of the Southern Poverty Law Center. Tyler, I was saying to you that they are, they seem to be attacking people with whom they disagree, people with whom we agree as hate groups. And I said that the Southern Poverty Law Center is itself a hate group.

And you kind of pushed back against that term. And I think I agree with you, actually. but go ahead on your reasoning for that. Yeah, so thanks for the question. There are a lot of organizations that have sued the Southern Poverty Law Center for defamation. And the Southern Poverty Law Center always comes out and says, hate group doesn't actually mean anything. It's protected speech.

It's an opinion. And you can't claim that this is defamation because by hate group, we're not saying anything concrete. And my point is they are saying something concrete. They're accusing you of being in league with the KKK of being one of these organizations that foments terrorism and hate, and that means something. So I don't call the Southern Poverty Law Center a hate group because I don't want to give them that argument. They don't reach that threshold and being called a hate group means something. Yeah, yeah.

We need to hold them accountable for that. Well, it's interesting that you often hear people saying that certain kinds of language leads to violence. And, of course, there's some truth there. But it gets really ugly when people say, you know, when Donald Trump said this, it led to Charlottesville or it led to this or led to that. And you think, wait a minute, that gets a little dangerous, you know. but it does seem without any doubt to be true that what the Southern Poverty Law Center said led to the potential murder of all kinds of people in 2012 at the Family Research Council in Washington, D.C. I mean, it was specifically incited by their map of what they call these hate groups and stuff, and one of them was the FRC, and they gave the address. and the guy who went there, as you said earlier, was able to go there because the Southern

Poverty Law Center had published the address and had labeled them as a target on their map. And amazingly, the media didn't really talk very much about this, because if ever there were a direct link to somebody doing something, this is about as direct as it can get. And, of course, the Southern Poverty Law Center condemned the attack. The man wasn't working as an agent of theirs, but the clear connection, as you point out, it's undeniable. And they continued to list FRC on the hate map, keeping it there regardless of the attack. And then later, and you talk about them accusing Trump of things, the Southern Poverty Law Center accused Trump of fomenting the Pittsburgh shooting against the synagogue in Pittsburgh law. Pittsburgh, which is particularly absurd, not only because Trump is such a great pro-Jewish,

pro-Israel president, but because the synagogue shooter himself expressed hatred against Trump. And yet you have the Southern Poverty Law Center, this arbiter of hate coming out and saying, look, this guy you hated Trump, attacked this synagogue because of Trump. I have to say that, you know, we're dealing with really, it seems to me, high levels of evil. There's nothing less to say. It is evil because it is so the level of cynicism in attributing to your enemy what you yourself are doing. I mean, here you have a guy in Pittsburgh says he hates Trump, kills Jews. Trump loves Jews, loves Israel, his daughter converted to Judaism, his son-in-law, his grandkids are Jewish. And they twist it around in this way that it's absolutely diabolical. And

It's just so deeply cynical. Again, if it weren't for you and now me on this program calling them out on it, the media doesn't seem to make much of it when it cuts in that direction. I want to just go back to this attack in 2012 of the Family Research Council. You said that – tell us what happened because a lot of people don't remember it or maybe they didn't pay attention at the time at all. What is it that happened? In other words, you have the Southern Party Law Center listing the Family Research Council. you know, whom I revere the folks of Family Research Council. These people are heroes.

But you have the Southern Poverty Law Center. They have every right to say, we don't like the Family Research Council. That's fine. It's America. But they then label them a hate group, and somebody goes there with the intention of murdering the people in the building. How did this – how was this murder stopped? You mentioned a guard. Yeah.

So when he broke in, he pulled a gun out of his bag. And the security guard, Leo Johnson, saw it, knew what was going on. He rushed and tackled him. And the guy got off three shots. One of them went into the desk. One of them went into the ceiling. And the other one went into Leo Johnson's arm. And then Leo Johnson had him on the ground.

And thank God the police were nearby. because they were called immediately. They were right on the scene as Lieutenant General Jerry Boykin was coming down the elevator. You're kidding. He saw this tussle and then the police came in. That's how fast it was. And it's remarkable that it was foiled. But Leo Johnson is still recovering to this day from these injuries that he received.

Well, yeah, if you get shot, folks, that anything can happen. And that's just an amazing thing to me that this happened and very few people know about it. The person who did this, I assume he's behind bars and will be there for a while. 25 years. He got a sentence of 25 years in 2013. So that means he should theoretically be out by 2038. But, I mean, the idea that he went in there with the intent to murder people, that seems fairly clear. And he, you know, what could have happened,

It's so horrific. Did he say more about what his plans were, how many people he meant to kill, how much ammunition he had? That is available, but what I know that he said was that he went in intending to kill absolutely everyone in the building, however many that were. I think he was prepared, I think he had about like 50 rounds, and, you know, he just intended to kill everyone. But he literally had a bag of Chick-fil-A sandwiches. Yeah. And that's what made it particularly harrowing to me when I heard that the Chick-Fillet Foundation had given money to the Southern Poverty Law Center. What? Yeah.

Last year this came out. One of their... You know what? I remember this now? Oh, my gosh. Yeah. One of their... And look, I don't want to cast too many aspersions on Chick-fil-A.

I think what they've said was there was one board member and board-fellet. and board members are allowed to send certain amounts of money that they want at their own discretion to organizations. They should have prevented it from ever happening, but this one board member wanted to fund the SPLC and it was allowed to go through. Well, again, there are organizations. We remember, some of us remember, ACORN. I mean, there are organizations out there that are getting away, if not literally with murder, than at least metaphorically with murder. We need to be able to call them out and say they shouldn't be funded.

If you have the ability to spend money and to give to them, make sure you don't give to them. And, you know, I just want to say if it weren't for you and this book, many fewer people would know about the Southern Poverty Law Center and think of it as, oh, maybe they're an okay organization that makes some mistakes. But the reality is that as you detail in the book, they're corrupt. They're doing tremendous harm. The world needs to know about it. And I would say CEOs, you mentioned this earlier, specifically CEOs of companies need to be aware of what is happening. Before you give a dime, before anyone gives a dime to the Southern Property Law Center, read Making Hate Pay by Tyler O'Neill. Tyler, thank you for your time.

Yeah, my pleasure. Welcome, John. That's because it's the music of the guests I have in the studio. Skillet. Welcome to the program. Thank you. You guys are just half of Skillet. You're John and Corey Cooper, but there are four of you in the band, but in the studio we can only accommodate two.

But you guys are the founders, correct? Yeah, we are. And you're married? Yes. How many years you married? 22. 22? Yes.

You got kids? Yes. Many. Two kids? 16 and 13. All right. Girl and a boy. That's the most important stuff to get out of the way.

And you live in Wisconsin. In Wisconsin. It's a hard rockin state. Yeah, that's where we're laughing. It's not very likely. But yes, Wisconsin is where we live. Well, I really do. I want to get your story because there are, I mean, there are tons of people watching right now.

They know you. They know all about you. But there are tons of people who don't know anything about you. And I guess let's, I want to get into the. idea of what does it mean, you know, to be a rock band that's either secular or Christian or faith-based, where I want to get to that. But first, I want to get your story. So how did you, well, where did you meet? All right, let's see. We met actually through, I'm from Memphis, Tennessee. And so we had basically friends, mutual friends that we ended up meeting. They said,

I think that you'd really like this other girl that we knew, basically, that plays in a band and sings. and I played in my own band and so wait you were in Memphis and where were you I was in Wisconsin you were in Wisconsin so and you're this like this matchmaking was like across the country or it was mutual friends I was friends with this pastor and pastor's wife and so they were like come on down and visit us and they heard that he was looking for a girl with purple hair yeah isn't everybody it grows this color now I of course I assume because my wife told me to do that I should always assume that that's your natural color I wouldn't I would never want to accuse you of dying your hair.

So I see that's an amazing thing. It's all natural. Does it run in your family? It does. Everybody's purple. Amazing. Her lips are that color too, naturally. It's amazing.

She's like a my little pony. I don't know if you remember those toys. Little kids do like it. Okay. So you guys met when you met sometime in the 90s, I guess. Yeah, that's right. That's right. And a skill originally started.

Corey was not actually in the group at first. It was me and two other guys. eyes. And skillet was a side project of different bands. It was actually just for fun. And my, my pastor at my church, said, hey, John, I think that you would enjoy writing music with this other guitar player from this other band and find a drummer. And it'd be like cooking, throwing everything into a skillet from all these different bands and do his write some songs. Did the pastor say it would be like a skillet? Yeah. And it was kind of a joke. Aren't you glad he didn't say like a paella? Yes. How would you like the last 20-something?

I usually say crock pot. Paella. Yes. Yeah. And in fact, when we get done with this, I'm going to look up the definition of paella. Yeah. But I don't think I'd like it as a band name. Yeah, you don't care.

I feel pretty sure. People in Wisconsin don't need to know about that. All right. So seriously, so you were a musician and this kind of just happened. Yeah, I had been in several bands. Corey had been in several bands. And I ended up starting this site project, really to do outreach for my church, like college campuses and stuff like that.

So you were a Christian. as a young person. It's not something that happened recently. No, no. I was a Christian. My parents were Christians. I was raised in the church. Gave my life to Christ when I was five. So obviously you got the tattoos before that. Yeah, yes. He was very early.

They signed a waiver. When you were five, that is so cute. Oh, man. Yeah, my mom was a radical follower of Christ. taught me about the Bible ever since I was a kid. Corey also, Corey is a PK. So her dad got saved in the 70s. Yep, charismatic movement in the 70s.

He got saved and my parents just lived it. And so I grew up kind of watching them like, this is real. People who know what PK means, that's like one of those Shibboleths, right? Like if you know what that means that tells you that you're part of a certain group. But you're a pastor's kid or a preacher's kid. So, and that was in the south, in Tennessee. I'm sorry, you're from Whitney. He's from Tennessee.

So your parents came to faith in like that 70s. whatever. Yep. Or maybe earlier. I don't know when they came to face. No, in the 70s. Yeah. And got radically saved.

Yes. Radically saved. Life changed. I mean, they were always helping people. We always had people living with us. Five kids in my family. So whatever they could do, they were doing. And I'm like, you know, this is real.

So I became a Christian. I was five, too. Wow. Really? Yeah. And never had the crazy P.K. Rebellion either. I just thought.

I just want to live for Jesus. But I have to say, as a parent, right, like, I want to say that. that whenever people say that, well, all kids, you know, go through this thing and I think, no, they don't. There are some many that don't and that they just know it's real. And, you know, we all have ups and downs as people. But the fact is, you know, it's kind of like saying, like, I went through my flat earth period. You don't need to go through a flat earth period. Like, you can have a lot of crazy thoughts, but you can know, like, the basic truth about the spherical nature of the earth.

You know, you don't have to go through that in college. I was experimenting with flat earth. So I'm going to borrow that, by the way. Yeah, go ahead. If you don't mind. Go and steal it. I like that. I don't mind.

I don't mind. But it's just kind of funny that the two of you were serious by your faith as kids. It's funny because there are some similarities between our stories when we met that were interesting like that and that our parents led us to the Lord. And we each had a real passion for music, had a passion for evangelism. I love evangelism. I wanted to tell about this great relationship with God that I had, that God knows my name. Couldn't believe that he would care about me, but I wanted to do that through music, because music brings people together.

And music, I think, is one of the best things we have in this whole earth. I think it actually proves that we're different than, you know, the other animals. Because sometimes you listen to some music and you think, how does that not touch your soul? It is just, there's no way to describe it. And if you really get down to it, you can be really trippy. thinking about what is it? Right. What is going on? Like what is music is just, I agree. So, but and did you know from a little kid that you wanted to do music and the same with you, Corey? Well, for me, my mom was a piano teacher. I have a funny story that you might find interesting,

which is that I was, so I'm in the Bible Belt. And so when I first heard rock music, my mom was a piano teacher and a voice teacher. Five years, five or six years old, I first heard Michael Jackson beat it at my friend's house. And I came home and sang it to my mom. And, and got like a holy butt-wopin for singing the devil's music. And so rock and roll was outlawed, drums, outlawed, guitars, couldn't wear black, you know, and I'm paying them back pretty good now. I got all that going on. Yeah.

But, you know, I was very much raised in that, which is several Bill Gothers seminars growing up, if you remember that time of like. Hey, I was talking to Bill Gaither on the phone like a month ago, and we're going to get him on this show. Oh, really? Oh, yeah, absolutely. No, Bill Gaither, Bill Gothard. No, I don't know Bill Gothard. Oh, okay.

Bill Gothard was a famous preacher at the time, but his big platform ended up becoming how Christian Rock was Wolves and Sheep's Clothing and that was this big, big thing. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, he actually had a lot of great stuff, institutes for Bible living that I liked, but I was just like, man, these people are crazy about Christian rock being evil, and I always had a passion for Christian music. I wouldn't call it evil. Some of it's just bad.

But it's not evil. You know what I'm saying? There's a difference. There's a difference between evil and bad. That's very good, too. So you can borrow all this stuff. So you were raised in musical family. Yeah, that's right.

And what about you? Not really so much. My kindergarten teacher told my parents that my sister and I should get some kind of music lessons. So they asked me what I wanted to play, and I said, well, piano and guitar. And they said, we'll start you on piano. At age five? Yeah, is it a kindergarten age. You said piano and guitar?

Yeah, I guess I like. That's pretty sophisticated. Most five-year-olds would say recorder. Yeah, PlayStation. That's the cool. That's the recorder is like the cool instrument at H-5. Okay, so, and Corey, you, at what point did you begin to take music more seriously? I was probably around, you know, 12, 13, and I thought, I wanted to know what God has for my life.

It was the whole theme of, like, everybody has a destiny in the church. I'm like, what's my destiny? I want to know what I want to do. And I don't really care what it is, as long as God uses me, I'm cool with it. And then I felt like I'd speak to me about doing something in music, which I don't know what that meant. I mean, on a big scale, on a small scale, I don't care if I'm a worship leader at my church. I'm happy for it. If I'm just doing an outreach band, I'm happy for it.

However he wants to use me, that's cool. And if it's a big scale, that's cool, too, whatever he wants. And so then I just started focusing on writing and playing and all the stuff because I really love music. To me, it's like the best language for me to communicate how I feel. And what genre of music were you involved in before, you know, you met John? Yeah, more mellower, probably more like alt-y, alt-pop. But isn't basically any music mellower than the music again? Then skillet.

Right? Like, how could you be less mellow? Anyway, that's, and were you drawn to the kind of music that you make now from the beginning? Oh, yeah, definitely. When I first heard what I would call metal, heavy metal, Metallica and Iron Maiden and all those bands, Oh, yeah, I loved it. It was like instantly felt my life had changed. I was in about sixth grade.

And my friend, we were just getting, you know, just getting into like the idea of working out. It was the 80s. Everybody wanted to be like Rambo. And he's like, man, I got this weight bench. And we had like, you know, these little five-pound. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's like, crank the metal. Yeah, you have to crank the metal.

He's like, you got to hear this. And he turned on Metallica and I was sold. I was just sold. And a star was born. We got to go to a break. We'll be right back, folks. I'm talking to half of skillet. Christian bestselling author and speaker, Richard E. Simmons, does not shy away from the big questions of life.

His latest book is called Reflections on the Existence of God, and it tackles the biggest question of all, does God exist? I've read this book and I've got to tell you, I'm a little biased, but you can imagine that I like it a lot, because Simmons offers insights for those grappling with life's biggest questions. where do we find meaning in life? Who determines what is evil? Can we be moral without God? Does God even exist? Former White House aide Wallace Henley says,

I've taught apologetics for many years and I've read every scholar mentioned in this book. Of all the books on apologetics, Simmons is the best I have ever read. This book is easy to read because it's divided into a series of brief essays perfect for a devotional or discussion with a friend.

I highly recommend that you add a copy of reflections on the existence of God to your pandemic reading list. Simmons asked questions that speak directly to one of the most important things you possess your worldview. Folks, you know how important this is to me. Your worldview is going to impact the way you live your life for better or for worse. If you want to challenge yourself to spiritual and intellectual growth, and I hope you do, then be willing to ask yourself life's toughest questions.

Dive in today by picking up a copy of reflections on the existence of God right now. Go to existence of Godbook.com. That's Existence of Godbook.com. I got a ugly. I feel the rage and I just can't hold it. It's matching on the walls. I do not. But it is Monster.

And I got to say, Monster remains one of the most streamed rock songs of all time. The band behind it, Skillet is with me in the studio. They are one of the best-selling rock bands of the 21st century. That's this. century. Multi-platinum, they've sold over 12 million albums worldwide. Last year, 2018, they clocked one billion Spotify streams, two Grammy nominations, Billboard Music Award for the double platinum album, Awake, yada, yada, yada. Here they are. I mean, that is a lot of success. That is absolutely amazing. And you have a new album called Victorious coming out

in August. Yeah. Very soon. Very soon. That's exciting. Is that why? why you're here, you're like promoting? Are you in promotion mode right now? We're always in promotion mode, but yes, we are promoting the new record. Yeah, right now, that's why we're here. Now, these are really some big numbers, and I think that the people are managing money are skimming off the top. I really just want to tell you right now, I just want to tell you right now because you should

have enough money by now to be able to have all those tattoos removed. I'm serious, because I know, I know you don't want to, you don't want to grow old with those tattoos, do you? Do you? Because that's permanent. Do you understand? They're permanent. They probably didn't tell you that. Right? I was unaware that they were permanent. You could change your color of your hair just like that. But the tattoos are permanent. Well, you know what? That's why I wear the long sleeve stuff. I got a lot of nasty tats. You got a lot of, I bet you got some skillet tattoos out of there. They're kind of nasty like flaming skulls and like, you know, snakes and stuff. And I just don't like, that's not part of my image anymore. No. So that's why I wear the long sleeves. But at the beach, I'm a wild man.

Yeah. Yeah, awesome, awesome. All right, we got to talk about this. So your story is kind of cool. So you meet, you're doing different kind of music than you are at that time. At what point, I mean, was your initial interest in each other romantic or was it music or was it both immediately? How did that happen? Oh, romantic, yes.

That was the first. We were never planning on playing music together. In fact, when we first got married, she still had her music going. I was doing mine. And we went through a transition in the band where we wanted to add some keyboards in. We were going to be changing some things around. And I was like, well, Corey could do it. It means you have to quit her ban.

I don't think we ever saw this happening. We really did. I mean, initially when we knew he, like, Skillet got signed by labels. So we were like, okay. But we talked about how we didn't want to be separated. So a lot of families do that where the wife sat home and the guys on the road were like, we just don't really want to do that. So I jumped in the van and was their merch girl.

So we were together... Whoa, whoa, whoa. You were their merch girl? I was their merch girl. Do you think that, you know, like, civilians like me know what merch girl means? I think you mean you sold the merchandise for the band. It means you live in a van with, like, four other dudes, and you don't sleep, and you just show up and unload. It's all hands on deck.

But you know what? That's the kind of what every guy is looking for. Like, if you're willing to do that, they're like, she's all in. You're totally in. all in. Yeah. That's amazing. So that when they added keys, it was like, she's already out here and she's free.

Yeah. Yeah, we didn't have any money. Yeah. And nobody was getting paid. I got $2 a day for, for DM. That was it. She doesn't eat much. She's all she needed.

She needed, like, a stick of gum and, right. Yeah. If you're really, if you're struggling financially, you don't want to marry a big woman. You want to marry a swole woman. She eats very little. You know, keep it lean and mean. And then later on, you can gorge. That's exactly right.

So you guys. That's exactly right. So you suddenly, okay, now when did, you married in 97? 97, yeah. So we got married about three months after Skillett's first record came out. We got married and went on the road. And about six months after that is when Corey kind of joined the band. And then me and Corey ended up writing the music.

So that was in 1997. Yeah. Married 97. She came on the road in 97. Right. Yeah. That's pretty healthy. I think that might keep the marriage together.

I think so. too like each other. It's been 22 years. I think you're doing okay. I think we're all right, baby. The first 22 years are definitely the hardest. My wife and I are 23 right now. And I think up until now it's been kind of tough, but like suddenly once you crack that 22

number, that magic number, so you guys are good. We're good. All good. I feel good, but it's kind of funny, though, because when you think of like rock stars or musicians on the road and stuff, it seems like such an unhealthy environment for relationships. So it's the fact that you're both in the band, obviously, there's something very healthy about that, whatever.

Yeah. There is, you know, and we have two kids that have toured with us ever since they were born as well. How old are the kids? They're 16 and 13. Wow. You could have like a Partridge family thing going. Oh, yeah.

Just like that. Yeah, it's just that we're better looking. But it's exactly like that. I want to be your Ruben Kincaid. I want to wear like a beige turtleneck and just stand in the wings and just go like this. Yeah, baby. Yeah. No, that is so cool.

But so your kids are, they're old. enough to be into music obviously themselves. And so are they or what are they? They are. Now, they don't realize how awesome we are. Yeah. But kids never do. No, they don't. Yeah. They've had it really cool. They've toured with everybody. You know, they played with Alice Cooper and yeah. And another Britannica. People don't know that Alice Cooper is a serious Christian. He is. He is. Unbelievable. I don't know him well. I still have to get him on this program because I, you know, I just find that fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. When I met him, I did ask him, I said, everybody always says that you're a Christian.

Is that actually accurate? And he punched you. Yeah, yeah. He ate me, you know, like a bat. Yeah. Oh, that was Ozzy. That was Ozzy. It was Ozzy, not Alice Cooper.

No, no. Alice Cooper is a lot cooler than Black Sabbath. I think Black Sabbath was kind of a little nastier than Alice. Yeah. Okay, so we're talking, what are we talking about? Awesome, awesome stuff. We're out of time. We're going to be right back.

Stick around. John and Corey Cooper, who are half of the band called Skillet, got to ask you, just because I know everybody's thinking it, have you ever been compared to Abba? No. But I like it. No, but awesome. Maybe that's just me.

But you're Swedish, right? Yes. Yeah. Like meatballs. I got to ask you, you have opened for a lot of bands that are, where there's no faith, you know, involved. And you've been criticized for that.

And people often, you know, like people who are very serious about their faith, oftentimes get very confused, just like your mom did, thinking that, you know, Michael Jackson's music is the devil's music. People don't have a good theology about art sometimes. And Christians can be really bad about that. And I know you've been involved in a lot of that kind of controversy. So tell me a little bit about that. Yeah.

You know, I see it sort of like I see anything else in the Christian life, which is that if you're a plumber, you don't only plumber for Christian folks. Right. Or whatever. Be it separated, my brother. No, no, no, no. You don't install pipes, okay, for the devil's people.

Come on, man. And the pipes themselves should be saved. It's just, come on. Yes. Are your guitar as Christian? Yes. Okay. And the amps have some kind of faith?

Yes, yes. Right, because then it's Christian music. It is simple. Okay. But so what bands have you opened up for? you've gotten a lot of criticism for. Well, I mean, sometimes we get criticism just for the fact that all of our songs are not overtly religious.

Right. Sometimes we sing love songs or we sing a song. Well, that song was called Hero. Is that, could be about Jesus or could be about a girl. You know, they're very like that. And I think the art is really cool to be subjective. Yeah. And I like film, for instance.

I like films that don't preach to me, but they can have a great message to it and I can take it the way I want to. film can change my mind about politics, can change my mind about stuff. And that's what we try to do. Well, like Mary Poppins or Sound of Music, never mentions Jesus, but I watch them. They're not Christian films. No. They're clearly of the devil.

They don't mention Jesus. Actually, you guys must know, like, this controversy, you know, that only Christian musicians have experience has been going on forever, right? And I'm trying to think, it wasn't Keith Green. it was Phil Kagee came out with a band, sorry, with an album called The Master and the Musician. Do you know about this? I know Phil Keggy, I don't know where you're going. Check this out. This is crazy, right?

So he's doing all this great Christian music. And then he blows people's minds by coming out with an instrumental album. Yes. And people like, oh, how could it be a Christian album? Because there's no Christian lyrics. Right. But isn't that, it's funny to me. Yeah.

Like it's absolutely funny that people have such a poor sense of, you know, when you label something Christian. Is that a Christian apple? Is that a Christian mug? Is that a Christian, you know, and all beauty is of God and whatever? But has that been hard on you? Have things gotten better over the years? Because some people are just very pharisaical and they don't get it. Much, much better than

they used to be. And I think that for us, what it means to be a Christian band isn't that every song is even necessarily about Jesus. Now, every song is religious. Might not have lyrics, as you said. To us, what makes it Christian is who we are. It's the way we act.

on stage and the way we act off stage is what we talk about in the song as being a light to the world and we're very passionate about that and and most of the criticism has kind of gone away it's like some people are never going to be convinced and I don't try to convince them you know they they wouldn't like the way I look because they don't like you know cool dudes you know what I'm saying Jesus didn't have a nose ring what's up with that I don't know you know taxes yeah exactly no but it's it is kind of funny though because like you realize that Christians of the religious variety can be cruel and frankly, I don't know what they're talking about. Because if they're right, they're right. But in this case, they're not right. And all beauty and all goodness is of God. And sometimes we kind of try to insist that it have this Christian packaging.

Yes. Well, it kind of hit me a few years ago, both of us, ten years ago, that Christian music was mainly being listened to by Christian people. And I think a lot of the goal of Christian music was always to win the world to cross. And so I thought, you know, maybe we need to have some songs that aren't just about Jesus. Otherwise, people don't know what you're talking about. Right. So that's what we try to do with our music if we can. That's fantastic.

Yeah. That's called evangelism. It is called evangelism. I think Jesus is pro-evangelism. Don't think you think? I kind of get that idea from the New Testament. Maybe I'm wrong about that. And a lot of bands that we tour with on the rock side of things, there's always quite a few of the musicians that grew up in youth groups.

And they've gotten as far away. from the churches they can and then we show up. And a lot of times we've actually played at their youth group because we've been around for so long and they're like, oh my word, skillet is here. And within a couple weeks, it's like, I walked away from God, whether it be their experience of somebody judging them or hypocrisy that they've seen or whatever it is, choices that they've made

and they feel like God hates them. People hate them. People are mean. Christians are mean. And then they see us and we're just normal. We have a good marriage. Our kids are really nice. And that sometimes is just the salt in the light that they need.

be like, okay, maybe my experience was a little bit skewed. Maybe those people were mean, but that's not the way Jesus is. That is so wonderful. That's a little bit of what Brian had well shared with me that on the, you know, on the circuit out there, you meet people and you get to share with people that would not be interested, you know, if, you know, you didn't look the way you do. They would just kind of turn you off right away. Yeah.

That's pretty cool. Very similar. We toured with Brian a couple of times. Yeah, he is so wonderful. I just love him, just a good guy. Yeah. And a lot of people gave him tremendous criticism when he went back to corn, as you know. Yeah. Like, how can you be there and how can he be doing what you're doing and stuff? So when you write a song that is not overtly Christian, you know, it just strikes me that you're making art, right?

And art can be beautiful. And, you know, it points to God. even if it doesn't do so overtly. Yeah. But you really are, you're rare, I guess, in that you do both. You know what I mean? Yeah, I do think it's kind of hard to do both because people like things in boxes. You know, we like to understand what we're dealing with. Yeah.

And so I think that skill it is a band that's been able to do both because I think our biggest selling point is we're very authentic. We don't try to cater to this or try to cater to this. We go, hey, this is who we are. and it's kind of like no apologies about it. And when we sort of crossed over to rock music, a lot of people said, hey, you should maybe not say you're from the Christian market. If somebody says, are you a Christian band?

Say no. And we've always said, yeah, that's where we're from. It's who we are. And I think the fact that we're real smells good to folks. Exactly. We're going to be right back. Final segment with John and Corey Cooper, who are half of Skillet.

Help me tonight. That sounds like the voice of John Cooper. Is it? Way it out. Pretty cool, man. The soothing sounds. That's really, that's really beautiful. Now, is there like, like 5% auto tuning going on in there?

No, more. 55%. Okay, all right, cool. I've never worked with an auto tuner before. I'm just asking you. Listen, you have this album coming out called victorious. Woo, yeah. So let's talk about that.

It's brand new. Yeah. It drops, as the kids like to say. They do say that, don't they? Nobody says that. Yeah, it comes on August 2nd. Tell me about this album. I'd love to tell you about the record.

I'm so excited about the record that there's a theme on the album that is this. I think in culture, what it seems like is happening. I think parents, teachers, universities, whatever, are putting this message out, whether knowingly or unknowingly, that life is so awesome. And every day is awesomer than the last. And every day, you just had to be the awesome as you can ever be. And it's perfect. And it's not true.

Life is hard. And life is a fight. And so the idea of victorious is that you can be victorious. You can win these battles. Good news for us who follow Christ. The battle belongs to God. So we know we are victorious, but we still got a lot of fighting to do. We still got to get a little dirty.

And so the theme of victorious is fight songs. It's supposed to make you feel inspired to not run away from the fight, but to say, all right, God, I'm ready. Where do you want me? And let's face this. Come on, baby. That is awesome. Actually, that really is wonderful.

That's really wonderful. Victoria sounds like a Christian. Like if I heard that, I would say, like, that sounds Christian to me, right? Yeah? But if you're not a Christian, I don't think you'd pick up on that. It's like one of those things that it's like a word. That is the essence of skillet. Exactly.

That is the essence of our songs, is that you pick up on it and you go, oh, victorious, because we think of Christ being victorious. You would think of, you know, the victory. He has won the victory. But in the world, you could mind you a Game of Thrones. It could remind you of all these, you know. Perry? Yeah, lots of things.

So I think that's a cool message. So it could remind you of the devil's music or good stuff. It does not remind me the devil's music at all, no, no, no. Okay, so like what is, oh my gosh, we've only got about two minutes. What is on the album? I know it's songs, but tell me about some of the songs. Okay, I'd love to. The first single is called Legendary.

And this song, Legendary is, it needs to be, and I hope somebody is listening, It needs to be like, you know, the NFL song of the year, all right? Because this song make you want to, like, go in and just destroy in an arena. Fist pumping, you know, it's a good workout song. And legendary is, it's about not giving up. It's kind of funny, ironically, enough, about the fact that we will not be legendary. We will probably not be remembered any of us in 200 years. It's not about leaving this big legacy.

It's about living the life. that you want to live now. What does God call me to do? Who has he called me to be? And live every day to try to reach that. So that's the first song, legendary. And, man, the title Tribe Victoria is special to me. Corey and I wrote it together.

And it's a song that kind of deals with depression. We have so many fans that reach out to us about dealing with depression. And this is a song that hopefully inspires people to know that they're not alone and that they can make it through these struggles they have. I've been public about struggling with depression. Depression is so awful, and I always want people to know you're not the only one going through it. Like a lot of people that you'd never know because I'm not going to act depressed on here, even though I might be. But, yeah, a lot of people are struggling with that.

They need to know how many other people are doing that. So that's good for you. Absolutely. Well, like, out of time. Holy cow. John and Cory Cooper, God bless you. Thanks for doing what you do. And may the Lord bless this album and the rest of your lives and careers.

Good to see you. Thank you. Likewise. Keep it heading like a secret.