The Eric Metaxas Show - Steven Notley

Episode Date: December 12, 2021

Archaeologist Steven Notley has been a part of a dig in Israel for over five years and shares what has recently been unearthed of the New Testament city of Bethsaida.

to the Eric McTaxis show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey there, folks. Have you ever wanted to talk to an actual archaeologist? Because I don't. But actually, that's not true. I listen, I know, if you know me, you know, I love archaeology. I love biblical archaeology in my new book as atheism dead. A third of the book is devoted to biblical archaeology. It's really exciting when you know the details, when you know the stories. It's just undenomened. in in in in in inaudibly exciting. So you can imagine I was pretty excited when I learned that Dr. Steve Notley could come into the studio. Why? You're saying why, Eric? Because he's an archaeologist. He's a distinguished professor of New Testament and Christian origins at Nyack College. And he is at the center

of a very, very, very, very exciting New Testament dig. Dr. Steve Notley, welcome. Thank you for having me here. You can tell him, bursting with country, fresh flavor over this issue. I just can't, I, where do we start? Just tell my audience the, the nutshell version of what you are privileged to be working on right now. I like to describe the site as the last, lost city of the Gospels. Most people don't realize they go to Israel, they visit there, they get off the bus, there's a sign telling them they're at Cessaria or Megito. They don't realize that almost all of these biblical sites got lost. They were destroyed, abandoned, forgotten, and we've been in a process for the last 150 years of rediscovery. Okay, so when you say got lost,

you're saying over 2,000 years, we lost track. So in the last 200 years, roughly, right, we have been finding the places we've read about, we've been showing that they exist, that they're true. But you're telling me that the one that you're working on now, is the last one. This is the one that we did not know where it was until recently. Exactly. There was an alternate site suggested about a mile and a half from where we are. They've been digging there since 1987, but it had problems, and there were a lot of hesitations. People weren't willing to sign off on it being Beth Seda, which is an important site. Apart from Copernium in the Galilee, it's the second most mentioned site in the Gospels.

Okay, so when you say Bethsaida, Bithsaida, for people just kind of tuning in, why is that important? What happened there, according to the Gospels, that we would know about? It's the home of Peter, Andrew, and Philip. So Jesus' apostles are coming from there. It's also in the region of Bethsaida where the feeding of the 5,000 takes place. You also have various healings taking place there, Jesus' ministry of healing. Whenever he gets into the boat to go to the other side, that is Bethsaida. That is the transatlore.

So you're telling me until five minutes ago, we did not know where it was. Not until we started excavating. And now we know. Yes. And we're excited. You're excited. You should be. This is a big deal.

It is a huge deal. Now, I thought Peter was from Copernium. No. But didn't they have a home? What's in Copernium? He had out. Anyway, we'll talk about that another time. But so you're telling me that until this dig, which you're leading, we didn't know.

When did you know and how did you? As I have looked into this world of biblical archaeology, I've found it interesting that people sometimes settle on identifying something. They're not sure, but they kind of settle on it because it's the best bet. And years passed, and then later they realize, no, no, no, it's over here. That's basically what happened with that site. Exactly. Again, there's, oftentimes there's various disciplines that are used to try to identify a site. Archaeology is usually the last word, let's say.

It comes in and confirms whether there are material remains that match the historical descriptions. Right. And sometimes we find that places that were previously thought to be a particular location are not. And that's what happened in this occasion. And it's a, it's, there were questions being raised. There were various suggestions already in the 19th century as to where it might be. And one of the sites, as I mentioned, an Israeli archaeologist was excavating there. But it's, it's about a mile and a half from the lake shore.

And one of the things we know about Baitzida is that it is a fishing village. And you don't build a fishing village a mile and a half from the lake shore. So what happened? They began digging there, and they dug for 30 years. And again, there were questions raised about it. Various people raised questions. I published in 2007, sort of in a peer-reviewed journal, challenging that site.

And it started a huge conversation. And basically, we were challenged if we thought it was someplace else, we should excavate it. See, I love the way this works. And again, it's only because I wrote my research. recent book that I've started to understand how this works because I, a big part of my book, I talk about the discovery of biblical Sodom, Dr. Stephen Collins, Albuquerque. And it's the same thing where, you know, eminent biblical archaeologists had sort of settled on a couple of other sites.

And when you looked into it, you said, well, those sites have some real problems. So if you were an archaeologist, you'd say, gosh, I wonder if we could ever find the real thing. And that's kind of what happened with you, right? I mean, you said that this place, yeah, it could be it, but if it's a fishing village, I mean, anybody who's walked a mile and a half recently understands you don't build a fishing village 30 minutes away by foot on foot. As I grew up to Oklahoma and we would say that's a long way to pull your boat. Hey, that's good, that's good. But it's true. So you had this gut feeling. Now, I'm sure people would have said maybe the Sea of Galilee was bigger or something.

Was that ever an option? They tried to come up with alternatives. They claimed that the lake was 20 feet higher, which brought them closer. The problem with that is that if it's that high, it inundates every known settlement, Copernium, Tiberius, Magdala, everything is underwater. So in other words, to solve their problem, they create a whole boatload of other problems. All right, so let's just settle on it, folks. Beth Sida has been discovered.

What are some of the things that you discovered there that make you realize this is, in fact, the New Testament, Beth Sita? First of all, I'm trained as an historian. That's what I do. Reading ancient text, and particularly historical geography, how does the land, the contours of land match it. So we have ancient descriptions of where Josephus, the Jewish historian, and actually tells us, describes precisely where it was located. And so that's why when we began to think about excavating, we went by the ancient descriptions.

Being on the lake shore, as I mentioned, that's where you would have a fishing village. And near to the Jordan River, where about 200 yards from the Jordan River, which is exactly as Josephus describes it. But, you know, I wonder, though, why would anybody have ever doubted, Josephus at all. I mean, if Josephus, who is such an eminent figure, such an authoritative figure, put it this way, why would anybody else go with something else? He never just made stuff up. Not everybody takes sufficient attention to historical sources. That's one of the problems. When you approach a question like this, it requires multiple disciplines, not a single one. Everyone gets in their lane,

stays in their lane, whether it's archaeology or history, and they don't get out of their lane. I have noticed this. But this is what's so fascinating is that all these big fascinating puzzles tend to be solved by people who have the guts to step back and look at several disciplines at once. Because when you just look at, because there's some people that almost make an idol of their discipline. Exactly. And they say, it's only about archaeology. It's only about stones. And other people are like, no, it's only about it. And you realize it's going to be all these things usually. Exactly.

It's a multidisciplinary approach. And when you do that, when you get out of your lane and you start having the information, if I can say it like this, bump up against each other. And creating a friction, you start, you're saying, oh, I have to look at it in a slightly different way. So that's what happened in this situation. We began to look at examine the data, and we were drawn to the location. And, of course, we began to excavate. And I think it's fair to say people have been stunned.

No one thought there was anything there at all. And so as soon as we, in 2017, we found a Roman bath, which is, no one expected it. But it's part of the description. Look, this is so, we're going to go to a break. This is so exciting. You have discovered biblical Bethsaida. It's open and shut. We'll be back with more details, Dr. Steve Nassie.

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I'm excited. This is very exciting stuff. This is a big deal. My guest is Dr. Steve Notley, who has discovered biblical Beth Sida. And again, we always have to frame this. so people can understand how amazing this is. We did not know where one of the major cities mentioned in the New Testament, in the Gospels, where Jesus is there all the time, and Peter and Andrews, a fishing village.

We didn't know where it was. We know now where all these other places are, but only recently have we, have you, sir, determined that this place, which we didn't look at until recently, this place is where it all happened. When did you know that you had it right? Second season, 2017, we excavated. We were digging down through the layers, through Crusader, Byzantine, and went down to the Roman layers, which is New Testament period. And we found a Roman bathhouse, which was, people were shocked. But it actually fits the description. Josephus talks about Bethsaida being made into a Roman polis by Herod Philip, who was the son of Herod the Great.

Who was evil? Yes. And his son, again, Philip took this little village and transformed it and made it into a small city of polis. And this is the first evidence of urbanization in the region. But this is after the Apostles era. Yes. Probably 30, around 30, something like that. 30 what?

30, 31, something along that line. AD. A.D. Sorry. Oh, so it's at the time. It's right at the time of sort of transitioning time that Jesus is there. Jesus is there right as that transformation is starting to take place. So it's a fishing village. Right.

So what are some of the things that you discovered there that you realize we've hit paid dirt? What are the things that you found? We found, first of all, I found lots of fishing weights. So lead fishing weights for the nets. So we know that it's a strong fishing industry. Also, stone... First century fishing weights. Stone implements, stone cups, plates, things like that, that are part of Jewish culture.

When you find stone vessels like that, it's part of the whole kosher laws. And it's a marker, it's a very clear marker that you're in a Jewish place of Jewish settlement, which, again, fits the description of Bixida. And we also coins. You usually date this by pottery. If pottery is datable, as well as coins. We found first century coins, coin dating from 66. So we have early, we have evidence of settlement there in the first century,

and it fits all of our description of the historical sources of what we should be looking for. It matches it, exactly. Do you find any red and white plastic bobbers? Not yet. No. Because if you do, I just want to tell you, that's probably not for a century. That's much more recent. But tell us about the Church of the Apostles I was reading about that.

Yeah, that's been one of the pleasant surprises. Again, our interest is trying to find New Testament, Roman period Beth Theda. The site was abandoned for about 200 years. apparently it was flooded and it has a silt level of about silting over it. And then on top, it is resettled in the Byzantine period. That's the Christian period towards the end of the 5th century. And they built a church with a monastery. Now, we've read about it in various pilgrimage descriptions, pilgrims who came by there.

Most scholars thought that these pilgrims were mistaken. and instead, yes, we're back at that again. See, actually, but no, this is what's so interesting, and yet, forgive me, but just because I'm learning about this now in my own life, it's so fascinating that you realize that one of the ways that you do history and archaeology is by tracing things back. And when they discovered, you know, Peter's home in Copernium or they discovered things in Nazareth, usually these things are forgotten. and also they are marked by subsequent eras. I mean, you know, somebody builds a church over a site, and then that gets covered over and whatever. So when you find a Byzantine-era church

or you find a Crusader era church or whatever from all these years later, that is usually a marker that we found the place that was found and marked and then forgotten. We found it again. Exactly. Exactly. So you're telling me that there were people that they really, thought that this Byzantine church, that the Byzantine folks got it wrong?

Well, that what they did is they claimed that these pilgrims who talked about a church, a basilica built over the house of Peter and Andrew in Betheda, they said, oh, they were mistaken. That's actually the eight-sided octagonal small church in Copernium. Aha. And they kept saying, no, no, they were all mistaken. But we found, we kept finding evidence clearly that there was a church there. we found little pieces of, from Tessera, making them mosaics, except this is out of glass and gilded in gold,

which belonged to wall mosaics that only appear in ornate churches. So even before we found the foundations, the walls, the mosaics, we began to find evidence that there was a church there. And we just had to remain patient. And we excavated down, we came upon the walls of this basilica. It's a large basilica, and it's full of mosaics. Again, the mosaics were being uncovered this summer. But this is the church that the pilgrims all identify as being the church built over the house of Peter and Andrew.

See, this is what's so fascinating to me is how it all, it makes sense when you look into it. You think if there were people alive who knew, oh, that is where Peter lived. Who would not say that's a sacred site, let us mark it, let us build a church over it, let us do something, right? And I'm fascinated by how that's one of the ways that we can trace things back. When you discover, you say, hey, here's a church from the 8th century. But why would somebody build a church in the 8th century in this spot? Well, probably because there was a history of knowing that that spot was where, you know, something happened in the first century and stuff. So this is exciting.

Now, have you published much about this? Is there a book coming out? We are in, we've just finished five seasons, and we're in February we're going to sit the team and we'll write up the five-year report. We've done various articles, peer review articles, but nothing in terms of a volume. Right.

But we'll produce a five-year report on our excavation and then seek another five years trying to uncover. We've done an electromagnetic scan in the surrounding area to see what's like, you know, seeing what's under the ground. Right. And there are houses, structures everywhere, waiting to be excavated. So you're saying first century Roman era stuff? There's no Byzantine, no Crusader, is immediately Roman period,

New Testament period, houses, streets, everything is there waiting to be excavated. Beth Seida. And you're saying this is the last of the cities, the New Testament cities, that, you know, the last 200 years we've been discovering them. This one was unaccounted for until you. Can we say that? I wouldn't say me as in. It wasn't just you, but your team. Your team.

I should mention that I worked together with professional. Professor Motiaviyaviam, Canary College, he's the director of the excavation. So I worked together with him, and we collaborate together in our work. What do you think it does for people? Because, you know, most Americans, myself included, we've never been to these places. They're mythical to us. It must be extraordinary to say, no, there it is. These are the stones.

This is where it happened. I mean, it kind of changes our relationship to the scripture. Sure. Look, I live there 16 years. I went over to do my Ph.D. at Hebrew University because I thought it would make a difference to be, to study, immerse myself in the culture, the language, and the land in which all this took place. And it does make a difference. It's not just myths. It's not just stories.

But there's a tangible element to it in terms of the stage, the geography, the archaeology. the archaeology that reinforces the sense of the story of the Gospels and scripture as a whole. I have to ask you your background. I should have done it in the beginning, but how did you get to where you are today? Where did you grow up and what made you decide you want to go into this field? I grew up, as I mentioned earlier, my joke. I grew up in Oklahoma. I did my undergraduate and graduate in Tulsa at Orr-R-R-Roberts University. University. And then I became intrigued by the work of a man named David Flucer, who was the preeminent Jewish historian and sort of first century in Christianity and Judaism. And so I packed up our things, my wife, two children, 1983, and moved over. And again, spent 16 years there studying

at Hebrew University and then teaching subsequent to that in Jerusalem. We've got to go to a break. Folks, I know you're not going anyplace. We're talking about some exciting things. It's the Airman Taxes Show. Don't go away. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Biden administration has caused a financial crisis,

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We're talking about biblical archaeology, which I get very excited about. I get excited about archaeology in general, but more recently, biblical archaeology, just because I dove into it for my most recent book is atheism dead. It's so fascinating. that we are discovering things that have been hidden for literally 2,000 years. We've wondered whether we might ever discover these things. So it's not a question of where is it. The question is, could we ever find it? And you and your team have found Beth Saita.

So anybody who's reading the Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, you bump into this place. Now we know where it is. And we're excavating it and trying to uncover as much as we can of the site of not only the village, but what became a small city there on the northeast shore of the Sea of Gow. See, that's another thing, too, is that all this stuff is so fluid. I mean, when we think of it, you know, frozen in amber, circa 30 AD, you realize no, according to what you were saying earlier,

Herod, the son of Herod Philippi, whatever's name is, he decided to make this place into something grander, and so you said they've just, they're Roman baths there. They wouldn't have been there in Jesus Day. No, and they're part of, again, they're part of, if I can say, the urbanization of the village. It was a small Jewish fishing village that Herod Philip decided,

it's at the southern end of his kingdom. If you think of Sessori of Philippi, which you sort of alluded to that's at the northern end. This is at the southern tip of his kingdom or his territory on the shore of the Sea of Galilee. And so he transforms it into a small polis, a small city. Do you think he had as his ambition to wipe out the Christian history? It doesn't sound like it. Because there were cases when obviously these Roman leaders want,

they just wanted to wipe out what was there. And they'd build a temple of Artemis or a temple. of Jupiter. He's Jewish. Well, he's Jewish, but, you know, I just want to. But no, we don't have any, we don't have any indication of persecution there, at least in the first century that we know of in the area of Sessori of Philippa, or in Beth Seda. And then you're saying that there was a major flood. Did the Sea of Galilee, in fact, rise to the point where you said this was silted over for some decades? According to the geologists, this is the silt is from the Jordan. The Jordan flooded. The course of the Jordan changes occasionally. It's changed in recent times. And it flooded the site and it was covered, let's say, by two feet of silt. And so it was abandoned for about 200 years. But the Christians had a memory of where it was and came back and resettled, built a church and monastery there on the site. And, and people can question it and say, well, in the Byzantine period, they built churches wherever they wanted to build them. But the interesting thing about this is that under the church are Roman first century houses, which says they didn't just build it anywhere. They knew exactly what

they were doing. I tell you, there's so much crazy stuff going on. It's just hard for us to process. I mean, first of all, it's very complicated because you're talking about centuries where great changes occur. Cities are built on top of cities are built on top of cities. There's flooding. I mean, it's just fascinating to me that we can go back, but we've only been going back for 150 or so years. So a lot of these places are, but this, you say, is the last of the major New Testament cities that have been identified, to be identified. Yes. It's the last one that I think, I think today, it's the leading candidate. People would say fairly conclusively, because of what we've found in the last five seasons that this is,

This verifies that this is Betheseda. So it's the last, what I call the last lost city of the Gospels. Now, you say that in 1968, in Copernium, where they discovered what is claimed to be the home of Peter, and there were churches obviously built over that. You take issue with that. You believe that that is misidentified. I do. It is definitely a Byzantine church.

We have evidence, a church father named Epiphanius, talks about. churches that are built during the time of Constantine, one in Tiberius, Magdala and Copernium, as well as Sephirus. And he allowed them to build churches, but there's no apostolic connection to them, no apostolic traditions to them. And what I can say without any question, at least for the first thousand years of Christian tradition, Peter never comes from Copernium. Peter always, always, always comes from Beth Seda. And it's, it is, I think you, John 1, 44 speaks of, you know, Peter, Andrew, and Philip coming from Beth Seda. And that is the consistent Christian tradition for at least a thousand years. How far is, since I haven't been there,

how far is Beth Seda from Copernium, roughly? If you were walking, but of course you have to cross the Jordan. It's about five miles, four or five miles, but it's, again, we're on the trans Jordan. We're on the other side, as the gospel speaker. And they would generally come by boat. And how far are these places from Nazareth? That's another, I'd say from Copernium to Nazareth. I'm probably the only person you'll ever interview who's walked from Nazareth to Copernium.

I took my students one time, and we began early in the morning. It's almost 30 miles a walk. It's a long day. But it's just fascinating that we can go to these places that we've read about, and it does come alive, and that's why this is so exciting. Now, there is a website. I want to give this. We'll be right back, but before I go, folks, if you want to know more about this specific excavation, go to L-A-A-R-E-E-R-E-J-E-E-J-excavations.com.

That's E-L-L-A-R-J-E-E-E-J-excav. We'll be right back. With his pink barbosses, his sari snoot, his nubah that glowed like a light of charute. With his pink bazoo, he guided the slave. He's a hero.

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take advantage of Mike's special offer on his standard MyPillow. That's MyPillow.com promo code Eric or 1-800-978-3057. Hey, folks, we're talking about biblical archaeology with a biblical archaeologist. Do you describe yourself as an archaeologist? I mean, you do archaeology, or do you say, no, no, no, I'm an historian or, you know. No, I actually am very careful. I say I'm trained as an historian and I'm an historical geographer. I deal in history and geography, which in, in,

involves archaeology. See, most, the reason I love this is because most people couldn't care less. But in the academic world, they get all prickly about definitions. No, but it goes back to what we were saying earlier, that people get in their lane. That's what I'm saying. And historical geography is a multidisciplinary approach. And that's what unlocked this question. Yeah.

Is the different disciplines looking at the question? Look, it happens over and over again. I'm involved in a dig, this is Homeric, the Tomb of Odysseus, in the Ionian Islands. I've been involved in this for years. And it is the multidisciplinary approach that solves the problem, that sees what people in their lanes often don't see or can't see or won't see. And I'm always fascinated by how people are, they are very prickly about,

well, you're not officially in archaeology. You don't have a PhD in archaeology. And most people think, like, who cares? The question is, is it right or is it wrong? but there are people that get very prideful about their degrees and they're, and I think part of it is that when you're a generalist, which is maybe the term I use for myself, it does rub these people the wrong way. They think, well, I spent 30 years in this and who are you to kind of waltz in and, you know, and I guess the answer is, I don't know who I am. I just want to know if it's true or not or if I'm right or wrong. And, you know, I think that's the approach we should all have.

But it is funny. Now, what right now, this dig is going on, the website again, it's Ella Raj Excavations, E-L-A-R-A-J, E-L-A-J Excavations.com. So this is ongoing. What are you hoping to find or what are you thinking you might find in this place that you now believe, that we believe is Beth Seida from the New Testament? We're next, next year, next summer we have a summer excavation for volunteers, and that will focus on the church, finish uncovering the mosaics inside of the church and trying to understand a little bit more of the history of the church. This is the 8th century church. Yes.

The Byzantine church built on the site of Beth Saita. I would argue that it's a couple hundred years older than that. Really? Yes. Well, you will argue this in an article, I hope, right? The 8th century is the first clear, explicit reference to it, but it existed prior. And then in the autumn, we're going to start doing two sessions. In the autumn, we'll do an excavation, and we're going to start uncovering as much of first century Beth State as we can. As I mentioned, there are houses, structures.

Every time we dig right under the surface, we come into walls of houses, first century Roman period. So there's a large area just waiting to be uncovered. And we hope in that excavation that we'll be able to, illuminate and understand a little bit more about the history of this site. Now, part of what fascinates me about this is that you realize the logistics,

in the world, in the broken, sick world in which we live, just because something is there doesn't mean the authorities are going to say, well, go ahead and dig. So it seems like you all have had favor because, you know, just because you know that there are first century structures there, I can imagine there are many places we've had this trouble in Greece and you have this trouble in other parts of those. the Middle East where it's just hard to get them to let you dig.

Look, there are certain hoops you have to jump through. The archaeologists have to have particular credentials, and we have to get permission from the Israel Antiquities Authority. They've been very good to work with. And I think in the beginning, they sort of let us dig because no one thought there was anything there. Now as things have been expanding all the publicity, especially with the church, the Church of the Apostles, we call it.

It has taken on a life of its own. I think, you know, the Israel Antiquities Authority will be, I hope. They'll be very eager to see us continue for another five years. Well, I get the impression that the Israel Antiquities Authority are, they're good guys, basically. And I'm thrilled, I'm thrilled to hear it. So when you uncover what looks like, a first century fishing village, Beth Sida, you haven't yet dug much of it.

What does this do for the future? I mean, it's exciting to me to think that the place where Jesus walked and did these kinds of things that we may be able to walk there ourselves. Right. I think it'll be a tremendous opportunity. Again, we don't know what we're exactly going to find. That's a question. We have an ongoing conversation.

What should we expect? When we speak of a polis, a city, or we're talking about a theater. We're talking about is Herod's Palace, Herod Phillips Palace there. We're finding frescoes. We're finding painted walls, frescoed walls. So we're finding evidence of things that are attracting our attention in terms of uncovering more of it and trying to see how much the city, the village actually transformed and became a small city. will we find a theater?

That's been another conversation. There are a lot of things I think that we can seek out to uncover, to try to understand the breadth of the city and its development. And, of course, as a Christian, it's important for me to understand something of that setting for the Gospels of Jesus' presence there with his apostles. And what about a synagogue? Is there a synagogue there?

If I was a betting person, which I'm not, I would say yes. There are, we have on either side of us, we have Copernium, and we have a place called Kursi, which was ancient Gergisa, where the casting out of the demoniac, demons from the demoniac. In both of those places on the lake, there are churches and synagogues to be seen. That's an unusual combination to find those together. We have a church. We have, we found a basalt. lioness, which about half of ton, lioness, and that is oftentimes a decorative element in a

synagogue. So it wouldn't be outrageous for us to suggest that there's possibly a synagogue there. I mean, we don't have one. We haven't. So wouldn't they have had to have one in a town like this? I would expect there to be one. There's no. I mean, if Jesus is there, the Apostle.

are there. That's usually a place of gathering. As I always say, whatever. It's just exciting. It's thrilling. So good to have you, Dr. Steve Nottley, Distinguished Professor of New Testament and Christian Origins at NIAC, right across our river, here. L-A-R-A-R-E-R-A-J-E-R-A-J-E-R-E-R-A-G-E-R-E-E-R-E-E-R-E-E-E-Raj-E-E-Rage-E-E-L-AGE-E-E-ROWs. Folks, we have kind of a crazy announcement, Albin, hit it. Yes, yes. If my dad would have lived, he would have been a hundred years old today. So he passed away at the age of 78. It's if he could have lived 22 more years.

but God bless you, Dad, you are the best. You really were. I just, this is just a good opportunity to say, we believe if you're a Christian, that Jesus defeated death on the cross. So when you die, you don't die. So it's an amazing thing. I love the fact that there are people listening to this thinking,

I'm not sure if I believe that. Well, folks, it is true, but you have to put your faith in Jesus. that's the catch. Wow, this is heavy stuff. Anyway, Albin, it's just, it's moving to me to think my dad is 94 for you to say that. It's moving. It's moving.

God bless you, your family. I want to say. And God bless your dad, but he'll make it the 100. Oh, man. Can you imagine? He went to the emergency room because he took monoclonal antibodies. I don't think I said this on the air. those by doing everything they say you're supposed to he was fine he and my mother were fine they

didn't get hit very hard with COVID but the my dad they thought oh we'll give you the monoclonal antibodies blah blah blah so he did it because of that he went to the emergency room and it was actually very short lived it was not I mean it kind of went away quickly but it was like that this was the big scare because of a side effect from from from what the doctors tell you you're supposed to do is it's so bizarre can we move to something really? really positive. I dare you, Eric. Okay, here's what it is. First of all, I got to tell you, um, yesterday we had Peter Wood on the program. Ladies and gentlemen, we're getting that video up. We're going to put it on Frankspeech.com. The dude is killer. Do not miss Peter Wood. Do not miss.

Today, we're talking, we're talking archaeology, biblical archaeology, uh, with Steve, uh, notly, huge headlines. This is right out of my book. is atheism dead, except I don't write about this in my book. So if you want to know about the really, really, really new headline, you got to listen to today's program. And also then I flip over and we talk about faith and science, which I also talk about in my book, Is Atheism Dead with Melissa Kane-Travs. Very exciting day. We have to tell you, we're getting emails every day from the folks at CSI, like really concerned that for some reason this year, we haven't raised nearly as much money as we were raising at this time last year. So we want to reiterate to you if you're inclined to give. And I say this from the bottom of

my heart, folks, this is giving to God's work. You are freeing people literally enslaved today while we are doing this program. Your money given to CSI through this program can help these people. Go to our website metaxis talk.com. Give what you can. I don't know what else we can give you. Albin, I got a boxing glove here. This is an Everlast boxing glove. I will sign this glove to you or to a loved one. If anybody gives $2,500 and you prefer this to the Trump hat, I'll sign this with the Trump pen.

This is an Everlast Boxing glove. I don't need this. It's a brand new Everlast Boxing glove. Who am I going to hit? I've hit all the people that I'm going to hit this past year. Yeah. And I'll get a new glove next year. Yeah.

And let me mention that if you give any amount, Now, $250 will free an actual human being who's in slavery. But if you give any amount, we have three grand prize winners again this year, which we will draw in early January once this conference. You know what you're right? We haven't mentioned that. That is on me. Folks, we should have mentioned this every single day.

No matter what you give, okay, $250 frees a slave. We've told you all about that. It doesn't matter what if you give $25, $20, $50, $100, you're entered in a grand prize drawing. the three winners, folks, you get a raft of books signed by me, by Albin, by whoever you want, by everything, by Mike Lundel. Like, whatever you want,

those are the grand prize winners. So seriously, they really said, Eric, your show's really behind. I said, I don't know what to do. I'm just going to tell my audience, please go to MetaxusTalk.com and give, doesn't matter what you give, folks. We are just honored to be doing this work with CSI.

God bless you.