The Eric Metaxas Show - Steven Strang

Episode Date: May 15, 2023

Stephen Strang, founder and CEO of Charisma Media, talks politics and prophecy with his latest book, "Spirit-Led Living in an Upside-Down World.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Ladies and gentlemen, looking for something new and original, something unique and without equal. Look no further. Here comes the one and only Eric Mattaxas. Hey, Albin, it's Friday.

It's Friday. Love Friday, Fronel. I love Friday. I'm going today. I'm going to Danbury, Connecticut to visit my mom and dad. I've been traveling so much. Every weekend, I'm somewhere. I was in Alaska, as we know. I'm going to be in all kinds of places in the weeks and months ahead. If you're interested in knowing where I am, you could go to Ericmetaxis.com. If you go to Ericmetaxis.com. I ask you to please sign up for my newsletter because all these interviews that we do, we share, plus all kinds of other stuff. So just go to Eric Mataxis.com. But the traveling schedule, it's nuts. I'm everywhere. You're going to miss me.

You're going to say, he was here. I didn't know. I don't know. If you care, some people don't care. But I assume that many of them don't listen to this program. But if you listen to this program, it would be fun. It's fun for me to meet, you know, folks who listen to the. the program. Honestly, it's more than fun. It's a joy. It's a privilege for me. So I want to say that. Go to

Ericmataxis.com. Our guest today, number one, our friend Stephen Strang has a new book out. He'll be up in just a moment to talk to us in hour two. We're talking to our friend Tim Mahoney, who has a film out, a fathom event, May 15th and 17th only patterns of evidence. This is about the actual location of Mount Sinai. I love this stuff. Okay, so we're going to be talking to him in hour two. That's a film fathom event May 15th and 17th. Can't see it until May 15th or May 17th.

However, this weekend, and I know I've mentioned it before, and I will say at every opportunity, the film nefarious is in more theaters, not fewer, more. that normally doesn't happen with a film like this. These films come and go. This is a great film. The R rating is baloney. It ought to be rated PG-13 or whatever it is.

It's not for little kids, but totally teenagers should see this film. And, you know, people say to me, Eric, what can I do? You can patronize great stuff like nefarious, like patterns of evidence next week. But Nefarious is in new theaters this weekend. please take advantage. You go to nefarioustickets.com. Did I get that right? Yep, nefarioustickets.com.

Okay. And Alvin, I've got something I want to read. It's a listener writes. A listener, this is funny. This has to do with your bicycle stuff. Before I read the letter, it's hilarious. Anyway, but before I read that,

I want to remind people, we're doing a campaign with CSI, Christian Solidarity International. We need your help. They are freeing slaves. This is in Africa. Try to imagine, folks, that 160 years after we abolished slavery in America, there are Africans in Africa and slaving Africans in Africa.

It's real. This is ideological divide, radical Muslim. believe slavery is a good thing. And the only good news, and it's great news, is that you can do something about it. I want you to think about the fact that you can do something about it. And I would like you to think that you have an obligation to do something about it. You can give anything.

You can give something. Basically, every $250, So you can give a fraction of that or you can give that amount or you can give multiples of that amount. But every $250, just so you understand, enables CSI Christian Solidarity International to free a slave. This is a big deal. Not only does it enable them to free a slave, and we've talked about it on this program, this is not like they're incentivizing the slave holders because the slave trade effectively has been abolished. slavery itself has not been abolished. But that means that there's still a finite number of slaves that can be freed through CSI,

but they need our money to do it. Every $250 frees a slave and sets them up in a life of freedom. This is an amazing privilege. We get to live out our faith, right? Faith without works is dead. We need to live out our faith in every sphere. this is one way you can do that. I want to encourage you, folks.

This is a beautiful thing. This is a real person. Yeah. It's going to be freed. What I like is that this weekend, this week, this weekend only $250. Eric, you're giving away your book to those who give $250. I forgot about that. Thank you very much, Albin.

Yes, this week only, and I guess it'll include the weekend, but this is a one-time deal. anyone who gives the $250 amount as a thank you, we will mail you a signed copy of my memoir, Fish Out of Water, a Search for the Meaning of Life. If you want to know how I got to be so messed up, you got to read this book. There's a lot of funny, crazy stuff in it. It's Fish Out of Water, Search for the Meaning of Life.

But if you give $250 tax deductible to free a slave, in Southern Sudan, we will as a thank you. And again, it's this week only. We can't, we can't do too much of this because it's not easy for us. But just as an incentive for you to do it this week, if you give $250, we will send you a signed hardcover copy. The book just came out in paperback, but a hardcover signed copy of fish out of water that's this week. Only next week, we're not doing this. So we're just letting you know, you have to go to metaxistalk.com. Metaxistalk.com is our radio website. Metaxus talk.com. Or you can call the number. The number is 888-253-3522.

8-88-253-3522. 8-88-253-3522. Do you hear the sirens? Yes, I hear. Finally arresting Hunter Biden. We've waited. How many years have we waited? And finally they're coming. It's a wonderful thing. Hey, Albin, before we go to Stephen Strang, this letter, I mean, this concerns you, so I got to read this. This is funny. A lot of people write us letters.

We rarely have the time to read them. But I love this one. It says Barbara from Oregon writes, I just heard Alvin, not Albin, Alvin. A lot of people mix up the name Albin with Alvin, but your real name we know is Albin. But this person writes, I just heard Alvin saying that he went on a bike ride about 15 miles. He and his wife, then he said it's kind of corny, but we want to get a bicycle built for two. And Alvin, you did say that on this program. I did say that a few days ago, yes.

All right. So this person writes, I love this as my husband and I have been riding a tandem bike over 20 years. It is awesome. We ride about 3,500 miles a year, and we are writing a book about it. So tell Albin it's a good thing. Oh, yes, we listen to Eric. And my husband buys letter to the American church by the case and gives them away. Keep up the good work blessings.

Now, I forgot about that part. This person, not only do they ride a tandem bike 3,500 miles a year, and writing a book about it. But they listen to this program, and this woman's husband buys my book, letter to the American Church, by the case to give away. Now, look, when I hear that, folks,

I'm just telling you, I want to get this message out. And when I hear about people doing this, it is very encouraging to me because we need to get the message out. We're in a desperate hour in America. Yeah, but since they're writing about me, they should be getting a caseload of hamster.

homes books and give those out to all the children they know. Hamster homes. Yeah, what about that? Hamster homes. Now, by the way, if you go to my store.com, my store.com, that's Michael Lindell's website, my store.com. Use the code Eric. You will be able to get copies of hamster homes, of all of my books, the Bonhoeffer poster. You've got to go to my store.com. Use the. the code. Eric. Okay, when we come back, we're talking to our friend Steven Strang in an hour two. We're talking with our friend Tim Mahoney about a film about the real location of Sinai, Mount Sinai. We'll be right back. I don't know about you, but I'm sick and tired of iconic American

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them and give them a proper introduction because normally go, hey, here's my friend, Stephen Strang, but you may not know who he is. So let me read from the back of the book that we're going to be talking about today. It says, first of all, he's the bestselling author of God and Donald Trump. Yes, there's a real book called God and Donald Trump. It was brandished by Trump himself at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. How amazing is that. We need to reelect him just because he does stuff like that. That was in 2020. 2018. But Stephen Strang is the founder and CEO of charisma media. There's lots more to say about him. But the main thing is that he's the author of a new book called Spirit Led Living in an upside down world.

The author now of Spirit Led Living in an upside down world, my friend Stephen Strang, welcome. Well, thank you, Eric. Boy, the world is upside down, especially what's been going on in just the last week or so. Yeah. And I just felt I needed to comment on it. A little bit like you did with your book, a letter to the American church. I had to do something. I felt compelled. Now, I took an entirely different tactic than you did. Your book on Bonhofer was brilliant and anybody who hasn't read it needs to. I read all 600 pages. And, you know, I didn't really know a lot about Germany during that era. You know, I'd seen all the documentaries, but every documentary I saw were of the concentration camps or maybe war scenes where things were blowing up. Yeah. And I was interested to get your take on

what the culture was like. A normal life went on for normal people if they were away from the fighting and they had decisions to make. And within that context, Bonhofer stood strong when so many didn't. He saw what was going on when so many didn't. He was a prophetic voice. And of course, I mean, what's amazing to me, I said this when I was talking to Amanda Grace. I say this many times. I never knew when I was writing the Bonhofer book back in 2008. It was published in 2010. I never knew that it would be a bestseller, by far the bestselling book that I've ever written, that it would open my whole career, would change things. But I definitely never knew that in the future,

I would write a book called Letter to the American Church that writing Bonhofer had prepared me for because what's happening in America today, and that's what your book is about, is exactly dramatically similar to what happened in Germany. And most people, like you said, don't have any idea of how it happened in Germany, how the silence of the church opened the door to hell,

having its way, the silence of the church. And once you really understand that, you realize that it wasn't just a crazy time. It was a time exactly like our own time. And they were just as blind as many in the church are today. The difference is we know what happened back then and we need to tell each other so that we can immediately repent and begin to move in the opposite direction

to stand against the evil in our generation. But I agree with you. 100%, you took a different tactic. You wrote to the church, two pastors. I wrote to the individual, the layperson. I am a lay person. I've never been a pastor. I'm a journalist.

I'm a businessman. But all of us need the power of the Holy Spirit. So I'm saying that even to survive, I mean, so many people are giving up, not going to church. A lot of people got out of the habit going to church because of COVID. Unfortunately, there are evangelicals who are going woke. I won't mention any pastors in the Atlanta area because you mention it. Yeah, don't mention Andy Stanley on this program, if you don't mind. If you don't mind, just don't do that.

No, listen, look, we got to, I say these things semi-jokingly because we've got to be real. We've got to acknowledge what is happening in the church. And both you and I understand, we have to speak out. We have to take action. So your book, I want to be clear, coming out very soon, it's called Spirit Led Living in an upside down world. So Stephen Strang, author, a businessman, founder of Charisma magazine. What, in a nutshell, do you say in your book, Spirit Led Living in an upside down world? We know the world is upside down.

If you have eyes to see and ears to hear, you get that. Well, when Christmas started in 1975, we used the slogan magazine about spirit-led living. I never had any idea that it would kind of be our theme over the years. But really, every single person who serves Jesus Christ needs to be led by the spirit in every generation. It's just that it's more desperate now. You know, in the same way that when somebody goes through a terrible tragedy, they reach out to God, they suddenly need God. things are getting desperate. And just to survive, to not be sucked into it,

we've got to get serious about God. We've got to be led by the Spirit in all the ways that you would understand, which we want love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, all those things. Those are fruit of the Spirit, and we need power for miracles to overcome the enemy. These are, and other things, these are called gifts of the Spirit. just to survive. Then meanwhile, I go into how bad things are.

I have a whole chapter on the tribulation. You know, I grew up kind of thinking that tribulation was going to happen after my lifespan, but now it's looking like we're beginning to see the beginning of it with one world government and the chips. You know, there's now the technology to do the mark of the beast before people sort of didn't understand what it would be

or, oh, and that'll never. happened. There's actually the beginning of that now. How are we going to stand strong when you can't even buy groceries or you're canceled? Some people are canceled. It's just that they don't cancel everyone. They basically don't cancel the ones who go along to get along like you wrote about in Germany. So I'm saying these are desperate times. We need the Holy Spirit, especially to stand and for the church to be the church, which was, you know, the theme of your book. Ultimately, ultimately, the church and Christians who make up the church are the conscience of the culture. And we have kind of gotten away from that.

We're nicie, nicie. Well, Stephen, let's be well thought of. Let's be clear. That theology, the nicie, nicie theology, the theology that, oh, I can't be political, that theology is from the pit of hell, ladies and gentlemen. Since we don't have a lot of time, let's cut to the chase and let's be clear. the idea that Christians are supposed to be not involved in politics is not biblical. It is not, if it were biblical, I would get behind it.

Now, we're not supposed to make an idol of politics, but we're not supposed to make an idol of anything. But the idea that Christian, you and I know, Stephen, that the civil rights movement was birthed in the churches of the United States of America. We understand that the abolitionist movement was birthed in churches in the United States of America. The idea that Christians are, well, I'm supposed to totally avoid politics and be friends with everybody on everybody. You cannot live like that. And to try to twist yourself into whatever pretzel is required theologically to live like that, that is not God twisting you into that pretzel. It is a fear of man.

It's misunderstanding theology. So I'm glad that you have been clear that, you know, you, I know you, you're never going to make an idol of politics. You're never going to look to a politician to be your safety. but the idea that you cannot advocate for one politician over another, that, well, we don't do that. We're members of the kingdom of heaven. You're a member of the kingdom of heaven and a citizen of the United States, which is a privilege most people around the world would do anything to have and to abdicate that,

to misunderstand that. And we see that across our southern border. If we're such a terrible country, why are people pouring over our border? Of course, this is a wonderful country. and we've got to have the power of the Holy Spirit, even have wisdom. Eric, what you're talking about is people need wisdom. That's one of the gifts of the spirit, to have the gift of knowledge, to understand that some people are actually our friends.

If you can't say anything good about Donald Trump, at least you can say that he has been a friend of those of us who believe in the sanctity of life and who believe in other kind of traditional values and who think that we need to have we need to be strong around the world and not give in to China and, you know, we could go on and on and on. He was our friend and these other politicians, some of whom were nice. I think that George W. Bush was a nice man. I had the opportunity to interview him a couple of times, but he didn't stand strong like Trump is, and we could use other examples as well.

But, you know, we could talk politics all day long. At the end of the day, the Holy Spirit, has been here for a couple thousands years actually since the beginning of time since we know that the holy spirit actually since before the beginning of time since we have to course since we have to but jesus said he was going to give us a comforter and and to tarry and and a few days later in the upper room uh and we celebrate this every year on the day of pentecost which is 50 days after uh passover and so it's about 50 days from now and um so the holy spirit is And the Apostle Paul told people to be led by the Spirit.

In fact, most of my book comes from the chapter in Romans, chapter 8, which is really where he writes about life in the spirit. Forgive me. I'm going to hit pause. We'll be right back. We are talking about spirit-led living in an upside-down world with Stephen Strang. But you ought to thank me before I die for the gravel in your guts and the spit me eye, because I'm the... That's named you soon. Are you tired of not getting a good night's sleep?

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Folks, welcome back. We're talking with my friend Stephen Strang. It's Strange without the E. Strang. He's a best-selling author, founder of Charisma Magazine. The new book of Spirit Led Living in an upside-down world, but part of what we're talking about right now, and this is a very central subject for me, is dealing with this lie that we've been dealing with in America, that somehow faith needs to be separated from politics, that the two, that is not biblical. And you've been very brave, Stephen Strang, not just in writing your book, God and Donald Trump, but the point is, you know, we can challenge people and say, listen, if I'm missing something, help me see what I'm missing. But, you know, when the Holy Spirit gets involved,

if you believe in the prophetic, which you and I do, you even write in the book about Kim Clement, the South African prophet, who in 2007, which is about a million years before anybody thought Donald Trump might run for president, gave a famous prophecy. Now, you can either say,

I don't believe in prophecy. Kim Clement kind of just, you know, he got lucky. But you write about that, and there's a lot to that he was speaking at, Bethel Church in Reading, California, which I just was saying, Bethel Church has started a church here in New York City. I'm thrilled to say. But can you talk a little bit about that? Because I don't think we've ever covered that on this program. What a crazy, amazing thing that Kim Clement, who's now gone to be with the Lord, that he actually got a prophecy in 2007. Well, I got to know him

in the early 90s when he hadn't been over here from South Africa very long. I really don't. don't remember what prompted it. I do remember being at a convention once and having a long discussion over a meal. I actually had him come and do a retreat for the men on my staff before he was famous, or he wouldn't have done weekend retreats. And I just kind of watched his career. He had a great gift of prophecy. He was able to minister prophetically.

He was a worshipper. He was a musician. And if you're not a Pentecostal, sometimes it's hard for you to, understand him. He's all over YouTube. People need to Google him on YouTube, and they can see there were two main ones, and I document them in God and Donald Trump. He was the first of several people prophets who said that God was raising up this unlikely businessman like Cyrus. You know, Cyrus was the Persian king. Now who originally said Cyrus? Who was the first prophetic voice to link, or maybe you don't know,

but I'm just wondering. Well, probably Lance Walnau claims it, but I would have to dig back to find out who used Cyrus to start with. You know, the idea is that God used. I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure it was I. I'm pretty sure it was. No, it was not. I think you're right. I think it was Lance Walnau. And, you know, I was not for Trump initially. I was a Ted Cruz guy. But I was also wanted anybody but Hillary Clinton, as I recall. And as I began to understand, I would see these things on YouTube. people could look them up. These pastors would lay their hands on Donald Trump and pray for him, and somebody would take a picture with their iPhone or a video with their iPhone and put it online.

And I have been, I've interviewed four different presidents, and I've been with some of the presidents with Christian leaders, where they didn't even talk about God or pray, let alone let people, it shows a humility that someone, you know, you don't even touch those kind of people. It's kind of like with the Queen. You know, you just don't touch the queen. Well, you don't touch a politician, but yet Donald Trump seemed to like it.

And there would be prayer for him and God use him. It's usually pretty general prayer. But there was something about him. And what I found is that he had really changed. He had some kind of spiritual sensitivity. And I did everything I could in my sphere to try to get the word out about Donald Trump. And I was invited to his victory party. You know, it looked like he was.

going to lose, but I said to myself, the prophets have said he's going to win. I believe in prophecies. I also know that prophets are not always right. Sometimes they prophesied what I call wishful thinking. But I went up to the victory party and he did win against all odds. And then several books came out. I write about this when I tell the story in spirit led living in an upside down world. Newt Gingrich wrote a book, Roger Stone, even my mentor, Doug Wheat, read, they didn't even mention the impact of the evangelical vote in the election, let alone this prophetic thing. It's hard to pin down prophecies.

When they come true, it's hard sometimes to prove what they were. But here we had videos showing Kim Clement and others. I mentioned Chuck Pierce and I mentioned Lance and a few others. I wrote the book to document this. And it was interesting. I was on all kinds of media, MSNBC, see, all that kind of stuff. Nobody challenged me on it because I documented it. It was kind of interesting when some of these prophets said he'd went a second time and didn't. They were false

prophets, all this kind of stuff, but very, very few people acknowledged it the first time. Now, I did it as a journalist trying to document this because it's good when we can document a prophecy that comes true, especially one that was history making. And I use this as an example. My book, this new book is not about Donald Trump at all, but when I write about the prophetic, I use this as an example because it's a real live gift. And I knew, as I said, Kim Clement personally, and nobody can say that this was doctored

because he died too young. He literally died the same month that Donald Trump was elected and he had been sick for a year or two before that. So this was not made up. It was, in fact, I have some preacher friends that are rabid football fans. And when their team is playing, they'll claim that they prophesied

that they'd win or something like that. But there's no proof that they actually did it. Forgive me, we're going to go to a break. Lots more with Stephen Strang. Brand new book, Spirit-led living in an upside-down world. Welcome back. We're talking to Stephen Strang, whose new book is Spirit-led Living in an upside-down world.

Stephen, I just want to stick on this with you because even the book, even though the book is not principally about that, you do deal with the prophetic and the prophets that prophesied, most notably Kim Clement, that Trump would be a president. And he said this in 2007. That is mind-blowing. This is documented. This is clear as a bell. There's really nothing to dispute. He said in 2007, at Bethel Church in Redding, California, Trump shall become a trumpet now. That doesn't mean that Trump's going to be president, but the idea of even mentioning Trump at Bethel Church in 2007, it just seems crazy. But then you say, the same year in Scottsdale, Arizona, he said, listen to the word of the Lord. God says,

I will put at your helm for two terms, a president that will pray, but he will not be a praying president when he starts. I mean, part of what this brings up is the transformation of Donald Trump. And I believe that what he is going through right now, the hell that he's being put through, for the first time in his life, in a way, he is bumping up against something that he and his own brilliance can't deal with. And that he has to turn to God in a way that he doesn't. And that it does seem to me that if and when he is reelected, which I believe he will be, he will become a praying president. But what's interesting, the reason I'm bringing this up is because Kim Clement got it right

when he said, you know, Trump will be a president or whatever, but he says here two terms. Now he doesn't say consecutive terms. What do you make or are you able to speculate on why some prophetic voices were so insistent that Trump would be elected this time in 2020? and, you know, it's so, it's just hard for me to process. And, you know, you don't want to ask the wrong person because some people will get angry at you. What do you make of it?

Because I never seem to understand. Well, I deal with this in the book. Uh-huh. You know, pendulum swing too far one way or the other. There's some people who don't think prophecy is for today at all. There are other people that go around prophesying everything in the world. And I believe that there are people who've actually made a name for themselves going around prophesying about Trump.

And I, you know, this is my own opinion. I think a lot of us wishful thinking. And there are some people that think, well, if I were God, I would do this. So, of course, God is going to do it. And there are a lot of people that would really like Trump in the White House, me included. But look, what I don't understand, it's one thing to say that. It's one thing to say, I believe the Lord is saying, but it's an entirely different thing to say the Lord has said and then you say something and in fact the Lord didn't say it.

That's like blasphemy. So this is where I get very confused. Are there a number of people that they're in the flesh and they're confusing their flesh? I just, I try to process this stuff. Old Testament prophets actually spoke for the Lord. In the New Testament, it's one of the gifts of the Spirit. And Paul, the Apostle Paul, very clearly said, to test the spirits and test the prophecies and so forth.

So, and in 1 Corinthians chapter 13, there's a line that says, now we see through a glass darkly. And I believe that sometimes prophetic voices will see something, but they don't see it real, real clearly. I think the prophets have to have a certain amount of humility and said, I could get it wrong. I'm not sure I'm hearing from God. I think God is saying this.

but there's something about Pentecostalism, and I grew up in it, and I realize a lot of your viewers may or may not know, but there's something about getting up and preaching and being certain, and the more certain you are, the more people shout. And I think that some of these things happen that way. I try to bring some balance when I talk about it in the book. I don't back away from this at all. But one other thing I want to talk about is we were talking a little bit about the politics. we haven't really mentioned the spiritual war.

You know, we don't battle against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers. We're in a war, and it seems like our enemy, who we call Satan, is getting more and more and more bold. How do you fight that? We have to get stronger and stronger, and how do we do it? We have to do it in the spirit.

I mean, when America had to fight evil Germany and Japan, we were very weak militarily, and America had to get strong in order to win that war. And we as believers have to be strong to win, not in our own power, but in the spirit. And spiritual Christians or spirit-led Christians can fight in the heavenlies. It's hard to explain. It's hard to understand.

There may probably a lot of people think I'm cuckoo right now. But there is something that we can do in faith. We can believe. The Bible calls them strongholds. We can pull down strongholds in faith. But it's also almost impossible to prove. You know, it's like even, was it the, what was the, the flotilla? Was it Dunkirk in the Second World War?

Yeah. You know, the Churchill called a miracle of God. That was a day of prayer. There were tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people praying. And that was almost an impossible thing. well, after it was successful, how in the world do you prove that it was as a result of prayer? I personally believe it is. Secular historians, you know, wouldn't even hardly consider that.

And in a somewhat similar way, the spiritual battle that we're in praying, we've got to pull down these strongholds, not just in politics and who's in the office, although the people in office empower the other ones. But there are evil people trying to change our culture, trying to indoctrary in our children, perverting morality in this country. And it's been happening for a long time. And the world was pretty bad in the book of Genesis, you know, and all through history. But it seems like it's getting worse and worse and worse. And the Bible clearly says that good will be called evil and evil will be called good.

And in America, you know, America is basically a good country. That's why we give billions of dollars around the world. When we defeat someone in war, they're better off after we're done after the war than they were beforehand. Where does that come from? It comes from our basic Christian Judeo beliefs that go back to our founding and even before our founding. No, it's absolutely inescapable. We're going to continue with this conversation, with this line of conversation. When we come back, The New Book, Spirit-led Living in a number.

upside down world. Stephen Strang is my guest. I'm talking to Stephen Strang, who is the author of many books, publisher of Charisma Magazine. The new book is Spirit-led Living in an upside-down world. There's so much to say about what's in the book. We've been talking really about faith and politics and how spirit-led living does not preclude the political. And I don't know, I shouldn't say I don't know, I do know how people got that bad idea, how people got that unbiblical idea that we're to be utterly devoid of politics in our faith life. That makes as much sense as saying I should be, I should avoid dealing with my family with my faith. My faith is private. That's nonsense. That's not biblical faith. And if you're going to be led by the spirit, you're going to go where the spirit goes

and you're going to be led where the spirit leads you. But I think there are many people who aren't spirit-filled or spirit-led or whatever, that they have a very, very, let's put it this way. It's almost like a desiccated kind of theology that it doesn't allow for being led by the spirit. They get uncomfortable by the concept of being led by the spirit. What does that mean? Is that going to mean that I forget about the Bible? think a lot of churches are like that, and I think those churches are suffering because people are hungry for truth. People are hungry for what is the Holy Spirit saying. We're living in crazy times. The title of your book is Spirit, but living in an upside down world. What do you think?

Well, I think a lot of people, a lot of Christians are just mediocre. They're very bland. They don't really believe anything. One of the things about being led by the Spirit is you will be passionate for the Bible, passionate to do everything that God tells you to do. And these principles that you're talking about are out of the Word of God in terms of standing for righteousness, living for righteousness, believing God for miracles and everything else. It's not like some mystical trance, like New Age or something where you're led by some spirit being that kind of tells you what to do. No, the Bible is the Word of God. But if you're led by the Holy Spirit of God, you will care, you'll fight, you'll fight the enemy.

And we all have to fight. I have a whole section in there about trials. Every Christian is going to go through trials. And it's not just always who to vote for. You know, there's all kinds of things. I try to cover the waterfront to help people really understand how the spirit-led life applies in their lives and how it's got to be manifest.

And one of the things it's got to be manifest is we've got to stand. in these terrible trying times. Things were bad when I wrote the book, you know, started a year or so ago. They were really bad. It seems like it's escalated in just the last month or two or in the last few weeks and days. And you wonder where all this is going.

I will say that I think there's a new hunger for the Holy Spirit. In fact, I probably shouldn't say this on your show, but I had occasion to talk to Glenn Beck. in a private conversation, and I mentioned to him that I was writing a book and mentioned the title, and he said, we all need more of the Holy Spirit. I was shocked. No, no, no, no. Why wouldn't you expect?

I would never expect anything other than that from Glenn Beck. He, you know, he publicly identifies as a Mormon, but I think that, practically speaking, you know, he thinks and acts like an evangelical. Christian, so I don't, you know, I haven't spoken to him recently, but I'm not surprised at all to hear him say that. And he has insights that, in my opinion, are almost prophetic in terms of what's going on in our country. Glenn Beck is a prophet. He has said many things that I have said, that's a prophetic voice. There's just no doubt about it. Some of the videos he's shared recently. He has been very brave. And, oh, we're going to a break. We'll be back in the second hour and more with Stephen Strang.