The Eric Metaxas Show - Terri Hasdorff

Episode Date: October 21, 2022

Terri Hasdorff is in the studio to share practical ways that Christians can get involved in the political battle using ideas found in her book, "Running Into the Fire: Why More Christians Need to Be Involved in Politics."

Folks, welcome to the Eric Metaxus show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m. Investments.com. Taxis show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey, Albin. Oh, Eric. Hi. Hi. I got to confess, I'm not in New York. Oh.

I'm in, this is crazy. I'm in Williamsburg, Virginia. Oh, great. It's an amazing thing. I haven't been here since 2007, I think. And before that, 1978. If you haven't visited Williamsburg, it is just maybe it's the only good thing the Rockefeller family ever did. It is absolutely the most magical, you know, it's a recreation in case you're unfamiliar of a colonial village. But it's so well done.

It's astonishing. I worked at Cedar Point, Bush Gardens in 1976, when it first opened. That was my brush with Williamsburg. You was just a kid. Well, it's amazing, but I want to tell my audience before I forget, because I've been very bad at this, and I apologize. But just to be clear, today is what, Thursday, October 20th. Tomorrow, I'm going to be in Columbus, Ohio. Folks, in case you didn't know, if you know anybody in the Columbus, Ohio area, please tell them, I'm doing a speaking engagement tomorrow night, Columbus, Ohio.

I think we put the results on my website, I'm sorry, the link on my website, Eric Mataxis.com. But I don't get to Columbus ever. Tomorrow night, that's Friday night. I'm doing the Salem Talkers tour. I think Hughitt is going to be there. I think Brandon Tatum is going to be there and yours truly in Columbus, Ohio. That's tomorrow Friday night. Please tell your friends, I'll be signing books, I'll be hanging out.

We just haven't had the details on this to promote it. But also, the next night, I'm going to be in Cleveland, Ohio. I think we're partially hoping to get the vote out for J.D. Vance, who's a stinking hero. And that's Columbus tomorrow night. That's Friday the 21st, Saturday the 22nd, Cleveland, Ohio. It's a Salem Talkers Tour, Salem Talkers Tour, Eric Metaxis, Columbus, Ohio tomorrow, Cleveland on Saturday night. Wow.

And according to the New York Times, you should be keeping your big yap shut. I know. It's good when the Marxists clarify their position. The New York Times, not as only dead to me, but is effectively dead. It's nothing less than astonishing that these, you know, these papers, they were once great journalistic institutions. They had their flaws, some of them huge, but basically, basically you could trust them. They've gone over to the dark side, and they published an article, I guess, three days ago, excoriating yours truly and the members of the Salem family for being conservative,

for loving the United States of America, even for voting for Republican candidates, or whatever it is that we did wrong. We're sorry it'll never happen again. So honestly, we're living in crazy times. But the reason we're bringing this up is that we're, as most people know, if you listen to the program, we're doing a fundraiser for the, the alliance defending freedom. And this should underscore to you, folks, the forces working against we the people, they're now at the New York Times. This is not like principal differences.

This is not like them, you know, publishing the Pentagon papers. This is a new level of advocacy that has nothing to do with actual journalism. So it's, it's sickening because I think of people that I know that I've been friends with over the years that are working at the New York Times, who are stuck. I mean, can you imagine being stuck in a place where actual journalism is scorned and where you have to take a position of hostility to what most Americans believe in? But again, you know, that's been the case in New York Times for a long time, but it's moved on and on and on and on. And they're trying to cancel voices like mine. And, you know, it's kind of like what Trump used to say. They're not after me. after you, right? And that's always the case. They're not after me. They're after you. You're

someone who believes in the values that I share on the program. And they're trying to cancel those of us who are giving voice to those values. And I think, you know, we're in a terrible battle. So the first thing I want to say is that actually, I ought to already have said it, My guest in this hour is Terry Hasdorf. Terry has written a book. She's written a book that if my book, Let It to the American Church is the why we need to be involved in politics and in everything. Her book is kind of the how-to.

And so I'm going to interview her in this hour. And I'm looking forward to that. So that's hour one. And hour two, we're doing an encore of my conversation with Steve Dase. He is one of the big heroes, folks. If you don't know who he is, it's spelled D-E-A-C-E on Twitter and other places. He just makes it. There's just a handful of people, Megan Basham and others who are just clear about what they believe,

and they're just heroic. So that's our two. But I want to say that in the midst of all this, we're doing a fundraiser with the Alliance Defending Freedom. Most of you haven't yet participated. and we need everyone, no, actually literally everyone who is a listener to this program to participate generously. So we've never been this far behind in a campaign. And I can't even think of anything about the alliance defending freedom that would be problematic for anyone who listens to this program.

it's not like, well, we just can't even imagine it. So my assumption is simply that we're going through some tough times and people are finding it hard to give. But I want to tell you, we need your help. We've never, ever been this far behind in a campaign. And it is for heroes. The Alliance of Fending Freedom, we've had them on this program enough so that you know what they're doing.

They're fighting for you. These are not cliches. not, you know, bland truisms. This is true. They are fighting for you. They are working in courts around the nation and often in the highest courts of the Supreme Court to battle for what we call religious liberty. That's something that's sneered at by people at places like the New York Times. They no longer believe in the Founders' Vision. They have really, they're the Tories. They are, they're worse than the Tories. We don't know what they believe in. And it is, it's very ugly. And if you don't help the Alliance defending freedom, I really don't know who it is that's going to step up because they are the ones doing what they do. They do it pro bono. So when you come to them, you've been attacked and you say, can you help me? And they help you. They don't charge you, right? Which is very different from, you know, I mentioned earlier, Salem has, when we've been sued and I've been sued, Salem has a legal team.

We have to pay this program, whatever profits we were going to make, goes to pay lawyers. So we're in that battle. So I can use your help personally. This program can use your help. But I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the fact that most people don't work for an organization like Salem. Most people are stuck. There's nothing they can do.

Alliance defending freedom steps up. So this is an opportunity for you to help. And we're asking you, please go to our website, Metaxus Talk. This is urgent. It's genuinely urgent. We need you to go to metaxis talk.com to give what you can. Anybody who can be really generous, if you can give a gift of $10,000 is tax deductible. And I would be delighted to have dinner with you, to spend an evening with you, to thank you personally. It's just something that we want to let you know. We are in a battle and we need all hands on deck. So whatever you can do in anything, and especially in this today,

You have to go to metaxis talk.com and do what you can. Alvin, are there any details on leaving out? Yeah, well, you know, if you give today, your first gift is matched. So if you give $100, it instantly becomes $200. Give $50. It's instantly $100. And also, if you give $500, that becomes $1,000. But anyone giving a $500 gift or above can come into our studio audience when you are in New York City

or if you have friends in New York that want to come by, the studio audience. Folks, take advantage of this, folks. Metaxistalk.com. Please be generous. We just need your help. Thank you. In case you haven't been paying attention, the Biden administration has caused a financial crisis,

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slash Eric. Patriotmobile.com slash Eric or call 972 Patriot. Hey, folks, I'm excited. Why am I excited? Because I have on an author that has written a book that I agree with so much that it's almost funny. I am talking about the same subject as my guest all the time. And I'm tired.

And I want someone else to talk about it. My guest is Terry Hasdorf, who has been. been a congressional candidate, very involved as a person of faith in the political world. The brand new book is called, I love this, running into the fire why more Christians need to be involved in politics. Terry, welcome. Thank you so much, Eric. I'm astonished, really, at how some Christians have had this idea that they're not supposed to be involved in politics. It's just, it's crazy. But a lot of good people have bad ideas and we want graciously to help them understand that that's a bad idea. And so you've actually written a book about this. So you mentioned before we went on the air

that my book is the kind of why Christians need to be involved in, among other things, politics. And your book, running into the fire is kind of like the how-to. So talk about that because people often ask me, what do I do? How do I do it? What do I do? So here we are. We got you, Terry Hester. Well, thanks, Eric. You know, I've been in politics pretty much my whole life. I started when I was a kid, volunteering on campaigns and worked in the White House in a level with the Office of Public Engagement. It was the Public Liaison Office, but it's now the Office of Public Engagement.

And then worked on the Hill for about six years, working with different members of Congress. And then went back to my home state and ran for office and ran a super PAC. And I realized that there were so many things that most people just didn't understand. about these processes and where the levers are in politics and how to make a difference. And so that was what I really focused on in this book. I've poured my 20 plus years of experience into just equipping people and teaching them how to do this to empower them so that they feel like there's hope because I think there's a lot of hopelessness right now in regards to politics.

Yeah, you know, if you're in the battle, it's hard to be hopeless if you're in the battle. But if you're sitting on your hands watching Fox News or whatever it, is that people do, you know, to give themselves ulcers, that's not going to give you hope. You need to get in. And so I'm excited about that. Now, you ran for Congress in Alabama. That's where you're from. You're a Samford graduate.

That's right there in Birmingham. I've been there many, many times. You also were at the Harvard School of JFK School of Management at Harvard. And you have a business degree from Oxford. I'm working on it right now. That is unbelievable. Those are some pretty cool places to go to school. But you've put this in a book because you obviously see what I see that people of faith in particular need to get involved.

If they did, we wouldn't be living in the mess we are today. That's exactly right. The reason why I named the book running into the fires because I was actually talking with a friend of mine who had also run for Congress about the same time that I did. And I asked him, why do you believe Christians shy away from being involved in politics? and he said because they're afraid of it because they think of it as being dirty and corrupt and I said that's exactly what I hear over and over but he said you know what they really need to be doing

is thinking of it more like people who are in law enforcement or people who are firefighters because they're trained to overcome their fears and instead of running away from the burning building they run right into it and I thought that is exactly it as Christians we're supposed to walk in faith not fear and when you look at

you know in America about 40 67% of Americans identify as Christians, and yet about 40% of them vote. So that's less than half. And, you know, 15 million Christians aren't even registered to vote. So when you look at the numbers... Let's stop right there. 15 million so-called Christians are not even registered to vote. That's right. That is an abdication of a serious duty. That's a serious, that's a serious thing, that God allows us to to live in a country that's free where we get to vote. And there are so many Christians who seem to think that it's okay not even to be registered,

much less to be registered and not get yourself to the poll. That's exactly right. And it's something that I think we take so for granted. What really was a catalyst for me, when I was in high school, I went to Russia on an exchange program with 40 student leaders from across the state of Alabama. And I saw firsthand what communism and socialism does to people. and the hopelessness and the oppression and the lack of the ability

to even get involved and make a difference was just so overwhelming to me that literally when I came back, my plane landed here in New York at John F. Kennedy, and I got down on my hands and knees and kissed the ground. I was so grateful to be an American. And I've never taken that for granted, but I think a lot of people just don't realize what we have

here and how valuable it is to be able to vote and get involved in politics and make a difference. Well, people don't understand how evil communism is or how evil big state authoritarian governments. They don't realize how bad it can be. And I want to tell you, folks, because my mother grew up in East Germany, I say this over and over again. I've written about this. It is far worse than anything you imagine. And if you're not working

to keep us from going in that direction because we're going in that direction, you're part of the problem. I also want to say the concept of running into the fire. The whole point is to put the fire out. You run into the fire to put it out. And it's the same thing when you're talking about, you know, oh, it's so corrupt, it's so corrupt. That is why people of faith need to get involved to make it non-corrupt. And my hero, William Wilberforce, I mean, I wrote a whole book about him. When he got involved in politics in the beginning, almost no Christians were involved. Politics was so filthy in the 1780s in England that no serious Christian would get involved.

That's right. By the time he left politics, he had opened the door to a sea change so that tons of the members of parliament were evangelical Christians. It was an absolute sea change because of his leadership. That's right. And so if you don't like the corruption, you need to get involved. And that was just one person. One person. And you realize here in our country, we are so incredibly blessed because even if it's just one person, if they're passionate enough and they care enough, they can get involved to make a difference.

Well, it's kind of funny because I only in the last months became acquainted with Lauren Bobert in Colorado. Classic case. This is a mother of four boys. She has a GED. So she's the classic case of like, you're not qualified. Who do you think you are? She has been one of the most effective voices in Congress.

She has no fear. She understands that we, the people, are to govern. ourselves. And so I think a lot of times the best people think, oh, I'm not, I'm not qualified. And it's like, no, no, you are more qualified than most of the people who are in office today. You're more qualified. Well, I think one of the things I really put out a call for in the book is first and foremost, you know, people have to have to get trained. If you're going to be involved, you have to start somewhere and you just, you know, learn by doing with a lot of these things. But you do have to get trained and you also have to be supported. You can feel called to run or called to be involved

in politics, but if you're not trained and supported properly, then I don't think you're going to be as successful as you could be. So that's really where the body of Christ has to rise up and support those who are out on the front lines. It doesn't mean that everybody has to run for office, but it means that if you're a Christian, you don't get a pass just because you may not feel called to do that directly. Well, that's right. And so how do people get trained or what would you recommend. If somebody says, well, maybe I can dip my toe in the water, where would I go? What would I do? Sure. So in the back of the book, I have a whole reference section of great organizations that provide a lot of training. Organizations like the Leadership Institute or moms for America who has trained over 500,000, they have over 500,000 moms across America who are working with them to try and make a difference.

There's a lot of different places where you can find others that are like-minded. And then one of the best things is just to learn by doing. Go volunteer at a campaign. Go be a poll. worker or watcher. That's huge. There's such a need for that and more people, you know, a faith need to realize that that's our responsibility. It is, it's kind of funny because we've grown up in a world where we don't talk about duty and responsibility very much. And yet, if you live in a free country, folks, I'm here to tell you, you have a responsibility. You don't deserve to live in a free country. Many people around the world would love to live in a free country where you just don't just get to vote, you get to be involved, and they can't.

And because you do, there is just no question that you must take it seriously. And I really think it's important for folks like you, Terry, and others who are talking about this idea, that we don't just have what we have, you know, because we're really nice people and we get to live in a free country. people died, people sacrificed, and we have to pay into that sacrifice. We have to make our own sacrifices, whatever that would be. That's exactly right. You know, Eric, right now, socialism is at our doorstep. And socialism at its core is about replacing God with government and freedom with tyranny. And we have to realize that, you know, a lot of people feel like, oh, gosh, I need this separation of church and state or, you know, I just want to stay out of politics.

And my response to that is your very freedoms could be in jeopardy, including your religious freedom. And this is the time right now to push back against this. If we wait, we could lose all of that. We are losing it, and it's because of inaction, and it's because of Christians having this bad theology. Of course, I write about this in my book. It's important for us to understand it's bad theology. By the way, if people talk about separation of church and state,

if you don't fight, that goes away too. And the state takes over the churches, which is effectively what happened in Germany, and it's happening here. We'll be right back talking to Terry Hasdorf, the book running into the fire. Why you think he's talking

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We need your support. The need is great. The time to donate is now. Thank you, and God bless you. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Terry Hasdorf, who has written a book, running into the fire why more Christians need to be involved in politics. So you were saying that my book, Letter to the American Church,

explains the why I try. and your book running into the fire is the how-to. That's right. So what are some of the things that people who are listening to this conversation thinking, okay, I know I need to do something. What do I do? What do are things I can do? Well, practical steps.

Like, you know, really doing your homework on the candidates that you're supporting. I mean, we treat voting almost like ordering food off of a fast food menu, and it's not something that should be taken lightly. These are the people that literally are making decisions that affect our daily lives, and you have to treat it almost like a job interview. So that's a really critical thing. A lot of people vote based off of who they see the most billboards for or the most commercials. And that's one of the things that I really talk about in the book is it's critical to think about, you know, who it is that you're supporting.

And many times on paper, most candidates will look alike. So it's our duty to really look into their background, get to know them, and then get behind them and support them. And that means voting with your time, voting with your wallet, voting with your influence, in addition to voting at the ballot. box. And I always say part of the reason I think we have to get involved is because we've kind of let things slide for so long. In other words, when the Democratic Party was represented by like O'Tip O'Neill or Daniel Patrick Moynihan, they were principled people. They might have differed with me or with conservatives on some issues, but on the basics, they absolutely did not. but we're now living in a world where you have one party and much of the dead Republican Party

really no longer standing up for what average Americans have stood for for two and a half centuries, the basic idea of liberty, the basic idea of freedom of speech, of religious liberty. These were things that you didn't even need to worry that there might be a candidate opposed to that. They all agreed on that. But now, if you don't understand what your biblical values are, and if you don't vote for those biblical values, the fundamentals are going away. And we are really losing the nation. We're losing liberty. I mean, that's far more serious than simply electing somebody who might disagree with you on taxes.

That's exactly right. The days of the Blue Dog Democrats are gone. Now it's a very polarized field. and the scary thing is, is if we don't get involved, the void that's left is filled by somebody, and it may not be somebody that we want in that role. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, it happened when we were talking a few years ago, but a lot of friends of mine said, well, I don't like Trump for this and this and this, and I thought, look, you could hate him.

But if you don't vote for him and the other person gets in, you're going to be allowing corruption. That's the main thing. I mean, Hillary Clinton, the level of corruption is unbelievable. The compromise with China, our enemies, and all of that stuff, not to mention somebody who is going to work very hard to put in Supreme Court justices who don't believe in the founder's vision, who don't believe in the Constitution. And I thought, you really think it's okay to not vote? And so many Christians acted as though, well, I don't, you know, I don't think it matters. And I was, I really really was grieved because I thought, I wish you were right, but I know you're not. I know if you don't vote, it's going to matter. And basically, lives will be destroyed. You might be fine,

but lives are going to be destroyed. You need to take this really seriously. Yeah, and there's no perfect candidate. You know, you're always going to have things where you might want it to be a little different or better, but you really have to think about, you know, over the long haul, what is this person going to represent policy-wise, as well as the people that they're going to have supporting them in that administration. politics is a numbers game. And if we don't play, then we're not going to win. Well, it's just a funny thing because I think a lot of times people do think of it theoretically.

And I think, well, you're going to be represented by someone, and you have a voice in that. But I really am astonished at how many people of faith, because you're writing this book, why more Christians need to be involved in politics, how many people of faith take this view. that, well, I'm a member of the Kingdom of Heaven. They don't seem to understand that if you are a citizen of the Kingdom of Heaven, you are the kind of person that should be very involved in politics, because you will make a wonderful citizen and a wonderful representative in whatever role. And there are people depending on you, because if you don't do that, someone else will do it.

That's right. who does not stand, they might talk about the poor, they might talk about caring about black lives, but all their policies are antithetical to helping the poor, to helping black communities. And so to me, the idea, maybe things, I always say things have to get so bad before people finally wake up and be like, well, maybe I need to do something. And I think we're at that point. You know, when the gas prices get so high, when people can't put food on the table and they start realizing, wow, the leaders that we have in office are not doing what I want them to do.

It's time to make a change. It's time to think about if we don't like what we see happening around us, it's our job to change it, and we have to take that responsibility. Do you, I mean, because you've been so involved in politics, I don't imagine you bump into a lot of Christians that are so apolitical, that they're almost anti-political. Or do you have you bumped into people like that? I have.

I have. I have kind of look at you. What do they say to you? I think the most shocking thing, you know, I almost titled this book, less than 1%. because that's the percentage of Americans who gave money to political campaigns in the 2016 election cycle. Now, when you're a candidate, if you're honest, and you're not a multimillionaire, and you're not willing to take money from people that are basically going to own you when you get an office,

where do you go? Well, if you're a Christian, you go to other like-minded Christians who have resources. And when they say to you, I'm so sorry, but I don't get involved in politics, that's a huge problem. There's nowhere else to turn. So this is a call to action for the body of Christ on a level that I think, is way higher than most people have understood, but you have to realize the need is now. Okay, folks, the book is running into the fire why more Christians need to be involved in politics.

Terry Hasdorf is my guest. We'll be right back. With the overturn of Roe v. Wade, lots of companies are coming out saying they'll pay for employee abortion travel and expenses. Most of you've heard about some of these companies. You've decided to stop shopping or doing business there, but did you know that you most likely own stock in those companies through your 401k's? IRAs and other investment accounts. Folks, this is a huge problem, and we need to do something about this to send a message to Wall Street through our investments.

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That's vina.com slash Salem using promo code Salem 10. Vinia, better blood flow, better life, vina.com slash Salem. We are talking about why Christians need to be involved in politics. If you're a Christian, this means you. If you're not a Christian, I hope you're being entertained. this conversation. Running into the fire is the subject of the book. Terry Hasdorf, what led you to write this book? Because you've been involved in politics, but what made you think that I need to write a book on how Christians get involved? I think just, you know, learning,

when I ran for office, I was out talking to so many people and meeting so many incredible folks, but it became very clear to me that there was just this major disconnect that a lot of people just didn't understand. And a lot of folks feel like, oh, gosh, well, I'm just a mom, or I'm just one person. What can I do? And I'm here to say, hey, there's a lot you can do. There's a major need for you. And, you know, that's what this book is about is equipping you with the information to know how. Well, and again, I think that things are so bad, once you see lives being destroyed by bad policies and by bad leadership, if that doesn't make you angry and say, I need to do something about this. I mean, when you have the Democratic Party,

going whole hog for transgender madness, destroying the lives of young women. How does that not make people mad? How does it not make you want to do something? I really never talk about it on this program, but when I see the drag queen story hour, this is a level of sickness. I mean, how sick do you have to be to be willing to sexualize children? It's really sick. And if that doesn't, make you mad enough to say, you know what, I need to do something, then I always say to people like, so what, why do I even care if you claim me to be a Christian? Where is your faith? You're doing nothing? I mean, because we know that in Germany, and I always use that as an example, but I mean, in Germany, Jews are going to the death camps and the church had basically made a

decision, many churches, that, you know what, we're just not, that's not our thing. I'm not called to defend the Jews. Well, I think God may have something to say about that because he has called you to speak up for those who have no voice. And, you know, Barnhofer goes on and on about this, but it's astonishing when you see it happening in your time with people that you are your friends, and they have these bad ideas.

They just go, Romans 13, you know, it really is kind of an abdication. It is. Of their duty as Americans. happening on our watch. Did you, were you always serious about your faith or was that later in life? How did that happen for you? I became a Christian when I was in high school and really and truly my faith has really guided and directed every part of my career.

You know, I have really committed everything that I've done to prayer, including this book. And it's something where it was just a very clear thing to me that I was supposed to write it. And I think it's for such a time as this. Well, so, and I want to say, too, you ran for, Congress and you didn't win. And clearly you believe that, you know, it's not just about winning. It's being involved. I mean, tell us about that experience of what made you want to even run, because that's a big deal to run for congressional office. Well, there again, I, you know,

prayed about it a lot. And I have to differ with folks. I feel like I did win in a lot of ways, because even though I didn't win the race, I was obedient. And that was first and foremost what I was seeking. I knew I was called to run. I didn't know if I was called to win. I just knew I was called to run. And when I ran, I learned a lot. And a lot of what I learned has gone into this book. So in my mind, it was a win in a lot of ways. Do you think, would you ever think about running again since you've learned so much? I would if God calls me to do it. Yes, absolutely. I think it's important to make the point, the theological point, that we do what God calls us to do. It's not about winning. You fight to win, but if you don't win, that's on God. That's on God.

Your job is to do your job. And I mean, you look at Jesus, and he did what was asked of him, and he went to the cross, and we don't say, well, he lost. When you're obedient to God, everybody wins. That's right. And I think of Bonhofer. Bonhofer didn't, quote, unquote, win. But by being obedient to God, you always win, and you set an example.

And, you know, all things work together for good for those that love the Lord or call the queen. So you can't really do that calculation. you just have to you have to just try to understand what is God asking me to do but it does seem I keep Terry I hear this over and over again that people are getting involved

who didn't used to be involved are you seeing that as well I'm starting to yes and I'm getting a lot of feedback that's very positive and encouraging about this book I think it's inspiring a lot of people to feel like oh gosh okay there are things that we can do they're practical things that I can start doing

immediately and that's what it's all about just you know empowering people to realize they can do it And you're obviously not just talking about running for public office. No. You're talking about being involved. So you said this is a how-to. So give us some more of the how-toes.

What are things that people listening right now could say, well, maybe I could do that. So I think a lot of elected officials only hear from their constituents when they do something wrong. And one of the things that I tell people is, look, you know, get to know these folks. We a lot of times get involved even on the front end when they are running for office and then they get elected and we forget all about them until they mess up with something. So my advice is, you know, stay connected to them even after they win because that's when they're going to need you the most. And praise them when they do something right. Don't just call them out when they do something wrong. Get to know their staff.

Go to town hall meetings. Call in and talk, you know, into talk shows. Be involved in the issues. And then when you do have an ask of that person, when you do need something from one of those staff members, they're going to listen to you because they know you. That's the difference. That's a big deal. That's really being involved.

I love the idea really of, you know, when I just quoted Romans 828. I mean, when things get bad and in this country, they're as bad as they have ever been. It's just an astonishing falling away from who we used to be. But part of that, the good news is that there are people waking up. That's right. And I'm amazed that, you know, God, he lets bad things happen, but good can come out of it. Because you know that there are people thinking, I never dreamt that I would be paying $7 for gas. I never dreamt that I would have people telling me that I should have no right in my child's education.

It goes on and on and on that we've never seen this stuff in American life. No. But it's waking people up. And it's caused you to write a whole book about it. Folks, the book is running into the fire, why more Christians need to be involved in politics. My guest has been Terry Hasdorf. Terry, is there a website? Yes, Godovergovernment.com is my website. If I had to sum the book up in three words, it's about God over government. God overgovernment.com. I love it. God overgovernment.com. And the book running into the fire, Terry Hasdorf, thank you.

Thank you, Eric. Hey, folks, welcome back. Lots more ahead. But I want to remind everybody this month only, nutrometics.com, 30% off if you use the code Eric. If you don't use the code Eric, you get 0% off. That's not as good as 30% off. Nutrametics.com, use the code Eric. You get 30% off. Obviously, at Mike Lindell's Mypillar.com and MyStore.com, you get even more percent off if you use the code Eric. So we recommend that. I also want to say if you go to SalemNow.com, there's a few films we would like to highlight. One of them is called No Vacancies at SalemNow.com.

Also, the streaming series on the border battle, Charlie Kirk and our friends telling the story of what's going on on our southern border. In the short term, it's called invasion. But if you want more on what that is, you go to SalemNow.com and you can check that out. Alvin, I wanted to talk about, we were mentioning earlier about the Alliance Defending Freedom. There's one thing I didn't mention that, again, I keep saying we're raising money for the Alliance Defending Freedom. We're asking you to give generously. But here's what I haven't said. They've already won 14 cases at the Supreme Court. I want you to think about the level of lawyer we're talking about that works pro bono, right? One of them is on behalf of Jack Phillips,

the masterpiece cake shop owner from Denver in Colorado. They tried to force him to bake a cake celebrating same-sex wedding. He said he couldn't do that. And they told him, shove it, bake your cake. ADF stood up and won the battle for him. Now, I should say ADF is also urgently active with its academic freedom project on college campuses. It also operates a Center for Life that focuses on the new realities now that Roe v. Wade has been overturned, sent back to the 50 states.

So Denise Harley, I want to play the clip. She's ADF's director at the Center for Life Alliance Defending Freedom. She's excited to help promote alternatives to abortion. Let's play that clip. Oh, we have these fantastic resources. We have nonprofits, thousands of them around the nation. And so I'm really excited that we'll have an opportunity, hopefully, to divert funds away from places like Planned Parenthood that are profiting off of the destruction of human life and into more resources for these moms. I'm amazed. The Alliance Defending Freedom is also working on that battle. So look, they never charge a dime to their clients because their legal costs are defraied by generous tax deductible donations from listeners like you. So again, the website is metaxis talk.com. You can see the banner. We really need your help. We're behind. These are our God-given freedoms and shrine near Constitution. They're under attack. Alliance Fending Freedom steps up. There's a phone number. Some people prefer to call.

and I will give that phone number now, but it is important that you know, whatever you give is doubled. So give what you can today. Here's the phone number 855-385-0-5-096. 855-385-0-5-96. We really are behind. I don't know why, but I want to say if you haven't yet participated, we really need your help. the Alliance of Fending Freedom, they rely to do what they do. They rely on generous folks like you who love liberty and who believe in these things.

Yeah, and any gift, any amount that you give, you're entered into a grand prize drawing. So we're going to draw off three names. Any gift amount, $10, $20,000, you get involved in the grand prize drawing. And if your name is drawn, you get books, you get stickers, you get T-shirts and hats and all kinds of goodies from the show. It's exciting. It is exciting. and we just want to do that for fun to encourage you to give. But look, don't let these pro-life women down.

Alliance-fitting freedom has stepped up for them. It's stepped up for so many. And I just want to say we're in a battle. If it's not all hands on deck now, you know, people say if you're saving your courage for a rainy day, it's pouring outside. This is it, folks. We need all hands on deck. Please go to metaxis talk.com. You see the banner or dial 855-385.

05-096, 855-385-0-5-96. Right now, 855-385-0-5-96.