The Eric Metaxas Show - Thomas Sheahen (Encore)

Episode Date: June 24, 2022

Thomas Sheahen talks about, "Everywhen: God, Symmetry, and Time," and demonstrates how important discoveries in science are validated by the Bible, and vice versa. (Encore Presentation)

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy pm investments.com. A Texas show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey there, folks. If I seem excited, it's because I'm faking it. I'm not that excited. Actually, I was faking that. I am unbelievably excited. Listen, one of my favorite subjects in the world is how faith and science are compatible, actually not even compatible. They bolster each other.

The more you know about science, the more it leads you to God. The more you know about the Lord, the more you want to know about science. But there's a narrative out there that says the opposite. It's a mistaken narrative. But it's out there a lot. As you know, I wrote a book dealing with this considerably. It's called Is Atheism Dead? and in the course of writing my book is atheism dead,

I bumped into so many other books, writers and thinkers who deal with this stuff. After my book came out, I continue to bump into authors and books that deal with the subject of faith and science. And I am very excited to have one of those authors talking about one of those books right now. My guest is Dr. Thomas Sheehan. The book is Everyone, God, Simmelian. and time. Dr. Thomas Sheehan, welcome to the program. I'm very pleased to be here, Eric. Thank you for having me on. Well, listen, this is, your title is beautiful. Everyone is just, it's kind of like this mystical. It's almost, it seems like Tolkien came up with it or something like that.

But before we get into, you know, God's symmetry and time, I want people to know who you are. So look, you got your degrees, your Ph.D. from MIT, which is, that's a community college, I believe, on the outskirts of Boston, right? Massachusetts Institute of Technology. That's Harvard, you, you've done so much over the years that I don't know really where to start. You've co-authored reports on things like rocket reentry instrumentation for Bell Labs. What years were you at Bell Labs? My goodness. It was during the Vietnam period from 66 to 73, and the best use of my talent in those days was to use my scientific knowledge to advance our defenses in our country. Well, I want to say that Dietrich Bonhofer's fiancé, Maria von Vedemeyer, worked at Bell Labs. I think she may have been there at the end of your tenure. She ran a whole department there. She died very young of cancer in 1977, but it's perfectly possible that she was there when you were there.

I'm just – I had to ask that. In any event, your book, if somebody says to you, as I will now do, what is this about, Every When, God, Symmetry, and Time? What's the gist of the book before we get into the details? Well, I picked the word Every When because it doesn't exist in English, Spanish, German, Chinese, whatever. It's a concept that people don't have. And I use it because I want to emphasize the difference between God's way of seeing things and ours. Nobody knows exactly how God sees things, but we sure know how limited we are. And so the book is about the limitations that humans have and how, by mistake,

humans tend to impose those limitations on God and thereby get erroneous impressions. Okay. Now, obviously, we all are familiar with the term everywhere, and we can, we pretend that we can conceive of how God is everywhere. But true, the Lord is, not only does he transcend space so that he can be everywhere at once, but he transcends time. And so every when is the term you have coined. It's very difficult for people, and I'm a person, so it's difficult for me, to think of the concept of eternity. We think of eternity as a long time. That's not true. Eternity is outside of time, just as heaven is outside of space. It's not beyond that border. It's in another place entirely. It transcends space and God transcends space and time. Very hard for us to conceive of. But if you're in the world of astrophysics, you deal with this all the time. So obviously this is something that for you is not just theoretical. You deal with this concept.

Exactly so. And you have gotten the idea better than anyone I've talked to so far. Don't tell anyone. I'm a genius. Don't tell them. I don't want them to know. They'll hold it against me. No, but this is, look, I've been reading about this stuff for years, and I love this

because it helps me understand God better. So please go ahead. Well, that's what we want everybody to do. And to a great extent, my book tries to invite people to understand God better, not because I understand it and you should learn from me, but rather I'm trying to encourage people to think at a higher level on their own, to step up to a higher level of understanding things, and to reach beyond what their conventional enclosed system of knowledge is. And if I can invite people to do that and encourage people to do it, that would be exactly what I'm not a lot of their question. you, I'm not here. I don't want her to know I do this. No, so you, so you, so, so the title is everyone, God, symmetry, and time. So what are the, what are the basics of what you communicate in the book? In other words, what are the, what are a few things that you touch on? Okay. The standard

physics is to think that a lot of stuff just comes naturally. Newton, for example, it did brilliant science 400 years ago, he assumed that the coordinate system just is, that there is such a thing as time and space. We took us until Einstein to realize that time and space have this unusual relationship. And there's also among physics the idea there are these symmetry principles that just exist. The step I'm taking is to say that those things don't just exist. God created them. Okay, now hang on one second because you've already, the word symmetry, that's not something I know about, or I'm not tracking with you. So I understand that, yes, you know, the Newton's version of the universe was, it's all about, you know, basic physics.

And, you know, a line extends off into infinity. And we can, we get all that. Then obviously Einstein comes in and really makes it much more difficult to have. Newton's view. I mean, it goes into a whole other realm. But when you talk about symmetry, I've not heard what do you mean about that when you say symmetry? Every law of physics, as in conservation of energy, conservation momentum, etc., is based on a symmetry principle at its root. There is an insistence in any kind of laboratory experiment that if you set your clock to daylight time or to standard time, you ought to get the same result.

Okay? If you conduct your experiment in Phoenix or Toronto, you ought to get the same result. So there are these symmetries implicit in the underlying base of all science. And these are cornerstone things that we have always taken for granted. And I'm saying, don't take them for granted. Realize that God invented them. God thought them up. God created them.

And the entire rationality of the universe is something God created. The rationale. See, these are big ideas, but they're important. And they're also simple. What you're saying is that the very idea that we can understand things, that we can use math and science to understand this universe. That's God's design. He designed a universe to follow certain order on purpose, in part. for us so that we could discover him through science, through looking at the world.

He didn't make it so random that we just said, out of the heck with it. Exactly right, Eric. You catch on really, really well. You've known this stuff for many years before I wrote any of it down, but you're exactly on the right track. Well, the issue of symmetry, you know, when you say for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. What is that? The first law of thermodynamics, I don't even remember it is. No, that's Newton's third law. Ah, whatever. Newton's third law. I was close. I was just two laws off. But the point is that there is this order, and most people, myself included, are tempted to take it for granted.

You'd be like, well, of course. You know, of course everything is ordered. I mean, what else would it be? But what you're saying is it needn't be ordered. We need to marvel at a God who gave it this order and understand that there's something about the order that's intentional on God's part. That's a big idea. We'll be right back. We're talking to Dr. Thomas Sheehan. The new book is Every When,

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seeing record inflation, that's the last thing we need. Our economy is in trouble and you need to take steps to protect yourself. If all your money is tied up in stocks, bonds, and traditional markets, you are vulnerable. Gold is one of the best ways to protect your retirement. No matter what happens, you own your gold. It is real, it is physical, it's always been valuable since the dawn of time. Legacy precious metals is the company I trust for investing in gold. They can help you roll your retirement account into a gold bond.

backed IRA where you still own the physical gold. They can also ship gold and precious metal safely and securely to your house. Call Legacy at 866-528-1903 or visit them online at legacy p.m. Investments.com. Hey folks. We're talking about time. We're talking about space. We're talking about God. We're talking about symmetry. We're talking to the author of Every When. Is that a great word? Every When. God, Symmetry, and Time. The author is Thomas Sheehan. Thomas Sheehan, we were just talking about the concept that we all take for granted, that everything is orderly, the universe is orderly, it makes sense. But you're saying it needn't be, that that alone is something that ought to be remarkable to us if we look into it. Exactly so, yes.

And it was God who created that order, that logic, that symmetry, and he created space and time. And all the things we've taken for granted, we have to recognize our created entities. So when you say God created space and time, you go along with the idea, which I do, that the Big Bang 13.8 billion years ago was the creation not just of all of space, but of time itself. Exactly so, yes, yes. It's hard to comprehend because I think people think that the creation 13.8 billion years ago means that the universe was filled up with stuff.

And we're saying, no, no, no, no, no. The universe itself, space itself did not exist. That's practically impossible. I mean, it is impossible for us to get our heads around that. But the bottom line is God who's outside space and time, created space and time almost 14 billion years ago, and here we are. That's right.

And the point that you are bringing up is that these things are almost impossible for us to get our heads around. And that's a real obstacle. And because we can't do so, we assume that God can't do so either. And that's a huge mistake. We have, for many thousands of years, believed that God exists within time, that God is subordinate to time, that God is inferior to time. And as the Ten Commandments say, thou shalt not have a false God before me.

mankind has, for our entire civilization, assumed the superiority of time and thus has put a false God before God. Well, actually, it's only the Bible. And this is another reason to believe the Bible and the God of the Bible. Only the Bible presents a God who is outside of time and space. And it's actually chilling when you think that something, you know, much of which was written 35 centuries ago by Moses. that that is talking about a world that now all these years later, now we understand that, you know, God is outside time and space, you think, but how is it possible for these first

people in, you know, Mycenaean times, in the bronze era, and just a million years before, I mean, a thousand years before classical Greece, that they had this concept. But all the other civilizations of the world don't have that concept. They have a concept where the gods are pretty much like us, arguing, capricious, inside time and space. Well, that was the enormous contribution of Judaism to civilization to say there is one God. The Romans, the Greeks, and so forth, had this whole bunch of gods, and they were all mistaken because there is one God. And we owe it to our Hebrew ancestors of 5,000 years or so who have discovered that in their time. But they cheated by getting it from God himself.

That's just it. And the inspiration that God gives to mankind will always remain a mystery to all of us. There are contemporary mystics. There are people we don't understand. There are people who have brilliant insights. And we don't understand them because the communication problem is so severe. We communicate in language. We have a thought structure.

stuck with it, and we live that way. So what we're going to get is not the full message from God, but a limited, filtered message. And I'm asking people to realize that what we see is filtered. I'm not saying that I know what the original is by no means. But I do say that we must recognize our own limitations and stop imposing those limitations upon God. That's interesting. I've not heard it put that way. But I mean, I see that, people do that. In other words, if you say, I mean, everybody who rejected the Big Bang, you know, Fred Hoyle and company, they, they were so bothered by the idea of the universe being created out of nothing. They couldn't bear it because it implied certain disturbing things.

It implied a creator. And so they basically said, no, no, no, no, no. We believe the universe always existed and we're going to work hard to try to prove that. Of course they failed. And I always find it funny. I write in the first chapter of my book is atheism. I write about Einstein being disturbed by his equations that show the universe is expanding and just thinking like, this is going to make me sound religious. I've got to bury that, you know, with the cosmological constant and so on and so forth. But it's just so interesting how scientists were wedded to the idea of a universe that had always existed, because if you find a universe that didn't always exist, it does imply that there's a god outside space and time.

That is absolutely correct. And we've finally done that. The world of physics has discovered that they used the term past limited, fancy way to say that you don't go back forever. There was a starting point. And that is an incredibly important aspect of understanding the relationship between time and our universe, which is linked to this creation by God. And to many scientists who dearly hold to atheism, it's really embarrassing and awkward for them. And the way you get out of it is you pretend there is such a thing as a multiverse. Okay, now that's where it gets funny.

That's where it gets funny because you have atheists often accuse Christians, Bible believers of making up these crazy myths and stuff. And ironically, of course, what we're doing is tracking with science. What they have found is that science, ironically, is embarrassing them. And so they are now going beyond science. Huge just irony. And creating this fiction of a multiverse. Explain the multiverse to my audience, if you could.

Well, the idea is that little miniature tinsie-wincey additional universes bubble up all the time, just like a frothing, like the beer, the head on a glass of beer or something like that, that these universes are coming into existence all the time, and every one of them expands just like ours and has all these abnormal conditions and so forth. And by the way, we are the ones who just got lucky to be in the universe where it worked out right. Okay.

Yeah, that's like hilarious, though. I mean, just to put in layman's terms, I mean, ladies and gentlemen, And imagine somebody says, like, everything's perfectly calibrated in this universe, so perfectly calibrated that it points to God. And somebody says, well, I don't like that idea. So let's invent the idea that there's an infinity of universes. And we just happen to be in the one that looks perfectly calibrated. Shear luck. And that takes more faith times quintillion than believing in the God of the Bible.

I mean, it's preposterous. But this is what secular scientists have been driven to by science. Oh, you're absolutely right, Eric, you're way ahead of me on this. It's absolutely true that what has happened is they have been backed into a corner because science points so strongly to a singular origin of one universe by a transcended being, God, who created it. And when you reach for the multiverse idea, you wind up very quickly at having an infinity of universes. Okay. An infinity of universes is something that people are not. not really willing to accept because they don't understand the concept of infinity. When you do have infinity, you wind up with universes where there are clones of us, you and me and everybody else on the planet. And there's, you know, so there's multiple copies of you, not just multiple, there's an infinite number of copies of you. And this is the conditions of the word infinity, a mathematical term, that people don't understand. The multiverse people,

wish there could be only 3,714 universes or some lesser number. 10 to the 500th is a number called the landscape, which has been bandied about. But what the people who have thought about the physics of this very carefully have shown is that you have an infinite number of universes, and that brings you a lot of really bad effects. I'm so glad. I don't have to think about this anymore because it hurts my head. Actually, seriously, this stuff is so, you've gone out there on this and you've thought this through.

And I'm just wondering, finish what you were saying, but I have a question. Go ahead. Well, one of my chapters is called the mistake of the multiverse, and I explain why it is mistaken. I mean, there's just so many terrible things that we are unwilling to imagine. If there's an infinite number of universes, then the Holocaust occurs an infinite number of times. Hitler wins World War II. Stalin dominates the world. You have these terrible, terrible results in some of the alternate universes. And so you find yourself unwilling to accept the idea that there's an infinite number of universes,

and therefore the physics, the logic, and the science points you right back down to one universe. And when you say, where this one universe come from, we say with considerable argumental strength and power that God created it. It's extraordinary stuff, folks. The book is Every When, God, Symmetry, and Time. Thomas Sheehan is my guest, don't go away. Tell me, Eric, why is Relief Factor so successful at lowering or eliminating pain? I'm often asked that question. The owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal.

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I'm talking to Thomas Sheehan. What's that Greek? Thomas Sheehan, Ph.D. He's the author of a book, Everyone, God's Symmetry in Time. Thomas Sheehan, when my book came out is atheism dead. A lot of people have emailed me because they have a young earth view of things. They say that, you know, they believe the universe and everything was created only a few thousand years ago. I don't have a dog in the fight.

My attitude is whatever is and whatever scripture says is true. But a lot of people who have as high a view of scripture as I do, yourself and Hugh Ron. and others believe in the Big Bang. What is your most basic objection to the idea of the Young Earth concept? Well, the scientific evidence really is very, very good that it has existed for a very long time. I look at the first part of Genesis as a wonderful expression in Hebrew poetry of the fact that God was trying to communicate something to people, but whoever was on the receiving end couldn't get it all straight. And they did the very best they could and they've given us the best they could in circumstances where they don't understand

fully all that God wants to say. Let me tell you about a certain 20th century guy. Well, actually, he's still alive. The fellow from Brooklyn named Jerry Schroeder grew up and went to MIT. I know Gerald Schroeder. He's in Israel. He's a genius. Go ahead. Well, he came to the table with a devout Orthodox Jewish religion following a certain rabbi named Nachmonides, not to be confused with Maimonides, who we're more familiar with. And he said, the universe was created in six days, and that's what my faith says. Well, in the meantime, he's got a PhD in physics from MIT, so he knows what his science says, 13.8 billion years. And Schroeder said, it's up to me to resolve what appears to be a discrepancy between my faith and my science. So he did.

And what Schroeder said is the answer is both because the first chapter of Genesis, according to Schroeder, was written by, from the perspective of someone who is riding the expansion of the universe and is therefore moving at huge velocities. The first day corresponds to about 7.5 billion years. Second day, about 4 billion years. Third day, too. And this original idea by Schroeder actually resolves the difficulty between six-day creationism and the physics that shows 13.8 billion years. I think Schroeder's a genius. And he did it because he was motivated by the fact that both his religion and his science must be true. And he brought that to the table and he worked his way through it. Now, Gerald Schroeder, the book you're referring to is called Genesis and the Big Bang. I remember reading that, I don't know if it was 1991 or something like that, and just being astonished because he's not a Christian believer, but he's a profoundly devout Orthodox Jewish believer.

And we had him at Socrates in the city a number of years ago. But the idea that he's able to reconcile these two things is astonishing. and I guess from your point of view, he has in fact done it. Well, the real gift from God that is given to all of us at one level or another is to be able to reconcile our faith with our science. And that is an absolute blessing. And Schroeder's a great example of somebody who has used that in the best possible way. It's amazing. And it doesn't mean that we won't always have questions.

I think that, you know, those of us who are believers in the scripture, we still have questions. We simply trust that the Bible gets it all right and that we haven't figured it out yet. We haven't figured out the details yet, the details of the flood, the details of that. There are things that we're still looking into. One of the places people get in trouble with is the concept of Adam and Eve, and I've heard different theories on that as well. And I just say, listen, I know the scripture's right. And some of these things we're still in the process of discovering, it seems to me.

That is true. There's so many things that if we will remember that God was trying to inspire prophets who were limited, and their limitations received this inspiration in a way that was not perfect, but was incomplete. And furthermore, the translators over the age, it brings it to us in modern English, they didn't get it perfectly right either, and there's an awful lot to learn. but the Bible is the best way to learn about, as Galileo said 400 years ago, the Bible teaches us how to go to heavens, not how the heavens go. And yet, I just want to be really clear. It doesn't mean that these are, you know, Galileo or whoever was, talks about the two books, you know, the book of scriptural revelation and then the universe. But we don't want nature, but we don't want to imply that. that the Bible is limited in the sense that it's limited on one, conceptually, it's limited because it is a book and it because it doesn't need to say everything. It doesn't need to refer to the dinosaurs.

It doesn't, but it's neither is it wrong. There's nothing in it that we can point to and say, well, he got this wrong or he got this wrong. Now, when it comes to translations, of course, people have got stuff flat out wrong and have let us down long, paths, wild goose chases sometimes for centuries because of that. Folks, I'm talking to the author of Everyone, a brand new book, Every When, God, Symmetry and Time. His name is Thomas Sheehan. When we come back, we will have more of the conversation. Don't forget, my personal website is Eric Mataxis.com. Please go there, sign up for my newsletter, and we'll be right back talking about everyone with Dr. Thomas Sheehan.

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800-98-3057. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Dr. Thomas Sheehan. The book is Every When, God, Symmetry, and Time. Let's talk about time. Time is a heavy subject. I was at a CS-Lewis conference in Oxford and Cambridge. Oh, I don't know, 2005.

Dr. Sir John Polkinghorne was there. They're talking about time. And it's just, it's so fascinating. It's so fascinating. The idea of the dimensionality of time and space, things that are really just hard to take in, but nonetheless real, because we serve an amazing God. So let's talk about the nature of time.

Let's talk about what you were going to refer to with the idea of when does life begin? Yeah, there are a lot of interesting things about time that we need to wake up to and are gradually waking up to. It is the case that we have shown that it is possible to stop biological time. The case of frozen embryos is exactly that. Time does not pass for a single cell that is frozen and kept at an extremely low temperature close to absolute zero.

And then you have people where through in vitro fertilization and so forth, A child is born in 1996, and his twin, his sibling, is born in 2012. And they're, you know, they're all these years apart, but they're still the same real people. Just to be clear, you're talking about the idea of a, if they're two embryos from a mother, and one of them is implanted in her uterus and is born. But the other one stays in this state of suspended animation as a first. rose an embryo. You and I know that's a human being. And at some point, that embryo should be implanted in a uterus and be born, but they can be identical twins separated not by seven

minutes, but by seven years or more. That's effectively what a clone is, right? It's a similar, very similar thing. But so why do you say that time stops? I don't really get that. You mean time stops for them? Are we speaking about time in a relative? Biological time is essentially interrupted. There is a certain biological time, a rhythm in the way living cells, living beings, living humans, their life flows on at a certain rate of time. And when you lower the temperature down to almost absolute zero, you basically shut off that biological progression entirely and thereby have shut off biological time. And I don't want to go into great depth about that except to observe that our philosophy and theology

hasn't caught up with the technology yet. It's something as technologically possible, but our understanding of it from a philosophical and theological point of view is still just beginning and is very limited. When did you come to faith in life? With a name like Thomas Sheen, I'm guessing you were raised as a Catholic. Am I right? That is correct. Yeah, and as I grew up and met various challenges, not the least of which were the other guys in the fraternity around MIT, I began to look carefully at some of the aspects of philosophy and theology that underlie faith. And in every case, there was a clear answer, and it became clear. And one after another, I was comfortable with understanding things like the work of St. Thomas, the work of St. Augustine.

The work of the Old Testament, all of these things made good sense to me, and I put it together in a way that was comfortable. And at the same time, I was learning science, which points again and again towards God. Science really does point very strongly in the direction of a universe created by a transcendent being. But what I wanted to talk about, oh, go ahead. No, no, go ahead. Well, what I wanted to talk about was another aspect of time, which is very big these days because of the leaked Supreme Court decision. The question is, when does human life begin? Well, if you look at the biology, the union of two gametes forms a new DNA molecule, which is an absolutely original and separate distinct individual, and that happens at conception.

Now, it's true for all species. My friend Stacey Trusankos described it this way. She said, nobody argues about when life begins for a spider. Nobody argues about when life begins for a puppy. The only species subject to this strange scrutiny is unwanted human beings. And when you have a wanted human being, everybody agrees that life begins at conception. So what's going on? excuses, the search for a transition point, which you can say before this there was no person and afterward there is, nobody can find that transition point. The reason you can't find it because it isn't there. It's one long continuous process. Somehow God was so clever that he programmed into the incredibly complex DNA molecule, all the programs, the subroutines, the activities,

that have to take place. Think about eruption of baby teeth. And then 20 years later, you have eruption of wisdom teeth. That stuff is built into the DNA right from the very beginning. Right from the moment of conception. That is amazing. And they can't find the transition because there is no transition. And that's why life should be honored at every stage.

And the dismissal of life simply because it's small, is a terrible mistake and terrible injustice. And one of the favorite quotes I have comes from the Dr. Seuss book, Horton Here's a Who. Remember the jolly elephant who finds a little tiny being on his back? A person's a person no matter how small. That is essentially a cornerstone fact of everything having to do with respecting human life and understanding that humans are a unique creation by God, God, not because God walked in there and did this or that or pointed here or there, but because he

was so smart that he created the program to have it come true. It's amazing. I have to ask you as we go here. Is there a website where people can find more from you, or is the book where they have to go? Well, yeah, the book's where you have to go. A lot of people just buy it on Amazon. That's a very easy way to get it. But the organization that I've been with for some 30 years now goes under the name of I-Test, which stands for Institute for Theological Encounter with Science and Technology. And so what is that website? It's www.Fa-W-F-F-E-S-E-S-E-S-I-E-N-C-E-E-E-N-C-E. I'm sorry, Faith-W-F-E-E-H-F-E-E-E-E-S-C-I-E-E. dot org. Oh, great. Faithscience.org is the website. Thomas Sheen, a joy to have you on the program.

God bless. Congratulations on the book, everyone. Thank you. Thank you very much, Eric. Folks, welcome back before we get back to John Zamirak, Z, M, I, R-A-K. Before we get back to John, I want to mention again that only in the month of June, we have 30% off at Neutri-R-A-K. We have 30% off at Neutri-R-E-R-K. Medics.com on a number of things that we have singled out as vital for your immune system. Vitamin C, vitamin D slash K, zinc, magnesium, quercetin, their immune support kit, and their immune support kit plus those things all are 30% off with the code Eric June. Eric June only for the month of June, vitamin C, vitamin D, zinc, magnesium, quercetin, immune support kit, et cetera, 30% off. Everything else, 20% off with the code Eric. All right, John Smirak,

you were just talking to us about citizens' militias. Go ahead. Citizens militias are the last backstop against chaos or tyranny. And that's what are, that's what all the American founders in their debates about the Second Amendment, about the ratification of the Bill of Rights, they spoke about citizens' militias as if they were the most natural thing in the world. Because they remember It was militias at Lexington and Concord. It was militias in Boston, resisting the British. Now, wait a second. That's before we had a constitution.

So how, I just want to understand this. Because they regarded these citizens malicious as essentially the proper backstop of order in America. They didn't really want a large standing army. They regarded that as a threat to liberty. So the whole idea of a standing army is something that our founders were not thrilled about. They accepted it, but they wanted there to be the possibility of citizens malicious to counterbalance it. So you could not have a tyranny. I just don't know. I don't know. What are the laws in the District of Columbia? If I show up at Amy Coney Barrett's house with

some friends with guns, what will happen? You might get arrested. You might get arrested. And I think we just need people showing up every night and getting arrested until the threat is removed. I'm sorry, civil disobedience. Just because they pass a law. It doesn't mean it's a just law that it should be obeyed. You know, if you're arrested with a gun in the District of Columbia, what is, I mean,

I don't think these people live in the district. I think they live in Virginia. I think most of the justices live in the state of Virginia. Yeah. If you're arrested with a gun in the District of Columbia, if you're a habitual felon, you know, I think they just patch you on the back and send you on your way.

But if you're a law-abiding citizen with a political grievance, yeah, you'll probably go to jail for a very long time because they're they're intentionally persecuting honest citizens look they try to put Kyle Rittenhouse in prison for life for defending himself they didn't care about the mobs who were burning and raping and pillaging through the cities so yes are the tyrannical regime here is going to crack down on people uh it's astonishing it's astonishing john your articles can be found at stream dot org again i want to say to

my audience, folks, we all have work to do. The work most of you can and should do, at least, is go to stream.org, share John's articles with whom you may. It's very important that we all do something. And before we go to the break, we'll have John at the beginning of our second hour again. But I just want to say, folks, everyone is responsible. Every one of us has work to do. One of the easiest things we can do is share information on social media. You can share this program on social media. We need your help. We can't do it ourselves. You see where we are. We're in a difficult spot. So I just want to ask you to help us do what we can do. You can support this program. You can support me. I have a give, send, go page. But we're going

through tough times. And everybody just has to pitch in, do what you can. Don't. Don't despair, pray that God would not remove his blessings from this nation, but that he would restore us to true liberty. We'll be right back second hour with John Smirang.