The Eric Metaxas Show - Tim Sheets

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Apostle, Pastor, and Author Tim Sheets joins the program

Welcome to the Eric Metaxas show. Would you consider yourself smart, insightful, precocious, astute, clever, wise beyond your years, and good at checking a thesaurus for synonyms? Well, then you've come to the right place. Here now is the handsome, attractive, striking, gorgeous, and quite frankly, breathtaking, Eric Mattaxas! Hey there, hi there, ho there, folks. It is midway in 2020.

Is this, I know that I'm like routinely repeating these things over and over, but I'm astonished at the passage of time. I've never lived through time before. Neither has any of you. And it's a weird thing. We are halfway through 2025. What is it possible? Evidently, it's possible. But we're passing through time, perhaps more quickly than ever before, as the president might say. Yeah, I've said it before. I'll say it again. We're in the future, Eric, whether we like it or not. I'm in the future, definitely. I'm in the future right now.

And I realized yesterday that I can remember the future and I can prophesy the past. Not many people can do that. I can remember the future. I can prophesy the past. Okay, folks, it's July 1st. Let's be clear. It's July 1st. It's Tuesday.

Some quick updates. In a few minutes, we will be talking to. Hormos Shariat. He is the head of Iran Alive Ministries. This is a big deal. This is a bit, to find out about revival that's happening in Iran, ladies and gentlemen, Iran, okay? There's amazing stuff happening there. We're going to be discussing that with him. In hour two, we're doing something that we might air on a miracle Monday in the future, but I want to air it today because it's brand new. It's a book by Tim Sheets, Brother of Dutch. The Elder Brother of Dutch Sheets is coming on the program today. Tim Sheets to talk about his book, Angel Armies, God's Supernatural Enforcers.

Angels are real. The supernatural is real. If you don't believe in this stuff, I hate to say it, but you're wrong. And if you want details, listen to this program. This is important. It's important stuff. So I'm a little disappointed, Eric, though. I feel like Dutch and Tim's parents really phoned it in with Tim's name, you know. They really, you know, they should have named them like, I don't know,

Butch or Lefty or, you know. Imagine if it was Butch and Dutch Sheets. That would be really creepy. Butch and Dutch. So, no, Tim Sheets is obviously, this is his real name. Timothy and Dutch, no one knows what Dutch's actual name is, the Dutch is a nickname. So, you know, I don't know what, what, we forget that Ronald Reagan was nicknamed Dutch. So how you get a nickname Dutch?

Don't ask me, if anybody calls me Dutch, I'll come after him physically. But Dutch sheets, that's his, he goes by Dutch, his brother goes by Tim. You know, we are in the future. You can ask the robots, chat GPT, or any of these things, anything now. and they'll tell you. Because apparently they know everything. Although sometimes they do get it wrong, but apparently Dutch is his middle name.

And his first name is William. Oh, you just looked that up. Thank you very much. Yeah, there you go. So you got Timothy and William. All right. We don't know as a kid why he was called. Maybe we'll ask Tim.

Maybe in our two, I will boldly ask Tim Sheets, hey, where did Dutch get his nickname? And how come you're just Tim and not Spike or something? Well, maybe people were calling them Willie, short for William, Willie Sheets, which is, you know, also he didn't like it. So he's like, you know what, call me Dutch. Call me Dutch. But don't call me Dutch.

All right. So we got a couple of announcements before we get to Hormoz Shariat, the head of Iran Alive Ministries. And before we get to Dutch Sheets. Okay, number one, tonight, this is Tuesday. Tonight at 11 p.m., I am going to be on a plane. This is theoretically because, you know, it's all by God's grace. But I'm scheduled to be on a plane flying across the Atlantic Ocean, literally, to London, England, because Suzanne and I've been invited to a wedding on July 4th.

I think I said it yesterday. The wedding is our friend Lawrence. It's an acting family, right? Have I talked about this before? Anyway, it's Lawrence. Fox. Lawrence Fox is getting married to Lizzie, Elizabeth. We've met them many times when we're in England, and we love them. And they are patriotic. They love America. And so they wanted to get married on July 4th, which I think is really cool. So we're going to be there, you know, the rest of this week

in Lundinium, as the Romans called it. We now call it London. So we're going to be there flying tonight. Tomorrow on this program, we're going to air my conversation. We just recorded it with Victoria Jackson. My goodness, I love Victoria Jackson so much. If you don't know who she is, she was on Saturday Night Live for six seasons. She appeared on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson 19 or 20 times. She's just a brilliant comedian and she's really, she's an amazing person. we recorded with her yesterday. We're going to air that tomorrow. Hold on to your hats. She's always just absolutely amazingly entertaining. On Friday, which is July 4th, we're going to air my dramatic reading of my book, Yankee Doodle Mugsy. If you don't have a copy of that, you should get a copy. It's,

you know, whatever. It's one of my favorite children's books ever, Yankee Doodle Mugsy. And it's all about July. It's all about July 4th, so whatever. But I'm going to do a dramatic reading this Friday. So stay tuned this Friday. We're going to do a dramatic reading of Yankee Doodle Mugsy. And we've got, we did some stuff with Albin that we're going to air on Friday. So we have that coming up. But in the news, before we get to our guest, I just want to say, Elon Musk is proof that you could be a super genius and in some ways be kind of dumb. The fact that he is preposterously saying that if the big beautiful bill passes, he's going to start like a third party, I just cannot believe that he is so out of touch with how things work.

You know, can you imagine deciding to go up against Donald Trump and saying we're going to start a third party? And can you imagine not understanding how politics works? You don't get to do whatever you feel like. You're not an autocrat. You're not running your own business. You're a politician. and there's only so much you can do.

And if Trump says the big beautiful bill should be passed, that's good enough for me. Donald Trump is not an idiot. I don't think he's some uniparty hack. So the fact that Elon Musk doesn't get that and that he's throwing shade, you know, on X against Trump, it's just so crazy. But by God's grace, Elon will come to a census.

He's a good man. But it's just, it's dismaying when we see this kind of stuff. In other news, Senate leader John Thune is a eunic. I just want to be very clear. He is part of the Unip Party. He's like John Cornyn. They need to be thrown out because they're bums, because they do not do what America wants. They play the middle.

They just don't care. And yesterday, as if you follow the news, he allowed the Senate parliamentarian who is, he could have replaced her. And he allowed her to change a rule, which means that in the Big Beautiful Bill, it's going to provide medical funding for illegal immigrants. That was not in the Big Beautiful Bill. Now it is, thanks to John Thune. And in case I haven't mentioned it recently, John Thune is a eunuch. We need manly men who are willing to fight for what is right and true to take the lumps that go along with fighting. But we don't have that in John Thune.

how dismaying, I have to say, very dismaying. Also, it looks like the, I don't know if people mention this, but the guy who won the Democratic primary for New York mayor, he is such a fraud that it's staggering. It's actually a little scary. This is like the kind of person you think is going to be the Antichrist, somebody who is really slick, and they are a total fraud. I mean, it's kind of like Obama. You just sort of don't tell people who you actually are. You make up this story and you know that the liberal media will not call you on it. So he pretends to be like AOC, completely pretends to be something he's not. That alone should frighten people.

But according to Keith Junta, who was on the program yesterday, this Zoran is a 12th, which means he's a radical Muslim. Anyway, I'm not going to get into that. Now, when we come back, we're talking to Hormos Shariat. We'll be talking about Iran and other things in our two. Tim Sheets, brother of Dutch. Ingredients, when I flip a container around and I can't pronounce or recognize the ingredients, I put it back.

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Break her one-nine. This here's a rubber duck. You got a copy on me, big fan. Come on. Folks, welcome back. I'm excited right now to talk to Pastor Tim Sheets. If the name Sheets sounds familiar, I believe it's because he has a a brother named Dutch Sheets, whom we've had on the program many times. Pastor Tim Sheets,

welcome to the Erkmataxis show. Well, it's great to be with you. I'm honored for you to have me and looking forward to sharing with you a few minutes, but God is up to some great things. Oh, there's no doubt about it. That's why I'm excited to talk to you, because you understand that. You see that clearly. My wife, Suzanne and I, most mornings read, give him 15. which your brother Dutch puts out. And it's so wonderful. And I say this often that we need to be surrounded by people who get it, who are hearing what God is saying so we can be tracking,

so we can have hope in the midst of difficulty, so we can keep our eyes trained on what God wants us to be keeping our eyes trained on. And a lot of people get distracted. And I always say that Mike Thompson, who's a prophetic pastor in Las Vegas, and your brother Dutch are two of the leading figures that for me, they say what God is saying, and it's just vital that people know that. And that's why I throw those names out there because I want my audience to know that. And obviously, you're right in the middle there because you're very close to Dutch,

who's your brother. Now, I've got to ask you the dumbest question. When did he get the nickname Dutch? Because we know your parents didn't name him Dutch. He was about six months old, and he did something in the kitchen and broke a plate, cut his nose. And my dad said he looks like a little Dutchman, and that was it. He looked like a little Dutchman. I was only three, so I don't know if he looked like a little Dutchman or not, but he does now.

And who in the world knows what a little Dutchman looks like? I have no idea. I have absolutely no idea what a little Dutchman would look like. But I love the idea that 70 years ago, your father declared that he looks like a little Dutchman. And now we call him, that is so funny. That is so wonderful. Yeah, all over the world, he has known as Dutch. They would not, you probably don't even know he's real name.

I do. I learned it this morning. It is William. William Harmon. That's right. That's my two grandparents. Is that right? Yeah.

I feel like we've really gotten to the bottom of some stuff because I, know that there are people all over the world wondering, you, Dutch, Dutch, what's his real name? Now we have not only said what his real name is, but we discovered the origin story of how he came to be named Dutch. In a weird way, that's so satisfying to me. I'm very happy to have discovered. It's all uphill from here. It's how I was going to say, now what do we have to talk about? Well, actually, Tim, I've spoken at your church. You're someone that I revere as a Christian leader and thinker as a prophetic voice. You have a new book out called Angel Armies.

And it's called Angel Armies, God's Supernatural Enforcers. There are a lot of folks, I think, who listen to this program. They're out of touch with the supernatural. They think of it as metaphorical. I once was teasing or correcting Jordan Peterson when he was on my program. And he's talking about evil or the demonic or something. something. And I said, now, Jordan, you understand, Jesus did not cast out metaphors. There are actual demons and actual. We need to understand. This is part of reality. This is not some medieval

idea or some ancient idea that we have evolved past. This is a reality. And so I'm thrilled that you've written a book called Angel Armies, God's Supernatural Enforcers. First question I want to ask you, Tim, is, have you ever had the privilege of seeing an angel? I have. I have not, but I know friends that have, have you? Yes, many times. Let me tell you how this started. Of course, I've pastored here for 47 years now, and about 15 years ago, we were going through a difficult time, and I was out by a lake praying all night long on many occasions. And Holy Spirit spoke to me, and it seemed out loud to me, probably wasn't, but this is probably 3 o'clock in the morning and he said, I will now lead another campaign for King Jesus,

similar to Acts chapter 2. Only this time, I will be bringing far more of the angel armies. Okay. Now, I eat this stuff up. I eat this up. 15 years ago, you said. Yeah. Okay. Now 15 years ago, this sounds ridiculous to say, but ladies and gentlemen, 15 years ago, isn't as long ago as it used to be. When I was a kid, somebody said 15 years ago, 15 years ago, 2010, that's not a long time ago. That's five minutes ago, basically. But you're telling me, and I know this is why I rejoice to know you

and to have you on the program, I know when you say this, it's not sort of. This is clear. You don't say this kind of stuff just to say it or because, you know, you want to underscore something over much. You're actually saying that 15 years ago, an angel spoke. And I believe if an angel spoke to you or if the Lord spoke to you, people can take that to the bank.

You're not making it up. So please rephrase that, or restate it, so I don't get any details wrong. Well, I had been praying probably 35 or 40 nights all night long. And I won't go into that story, but it's in the book. But, and I was saying, Lord, you've got to speak clarity to me. concerning the times ahead and what my role is. And it was really a difficult time, but a soul-seeking time. And he spoke, I will now lead another campaign for King Jesus.

Only this time I will be bringing far more, or similar to Acts chapter 2, and this time I will be bringing far more of the angel armies. And I knew in that that a part of my apostolic calling was to study angels. and I have made it. I think I've got 7,000 hours now in studying angels since then. I have spent week after week. This is my fourth book, actually, on angels. The first was on how angels assist the ecclesia and the heirs.

Of course, that's Hebrews 114. Angels, are ministering spirits, sent to minister to the heirs of salvation. So I spent, actually, I wrote the first book six times, Eric, because I didn't like it. I wrote it, didn't like it, wrote it, didn't like it. And the six time I said, that's what I want to say. And it tells you how angels assist. Angels are real, like you just said, and everything that God creates has a purpose. and the church lost the purpose of angels.

Why are they here? God makes everything for a reason. Everything has a destiny and purpose. And one of the main reasons angels are here is to assist people like you and me to discover our destiny. We have angels that are assigned to our lives. So that's in Matthew 18 and verse 10. It said, Jesus said, there are two angels that have the face or see the face of my father that are assigned to your life.

He's talking about little kids. And as I studied that, I saw that how infants, the first day they were born, they have a destiny that God planned for their life before they were born. In other words, the Greek word for destiny or purpose is prosthesis. Before you were born, God wrote your thesis. He wrote down things that were imported for you to accomplish, and then he gave you whatever you would need in developing and creating you in your mother's womb to produce that purpose.

You have all the abilities and talents that you need to do that. and angels are assigned to your life to help draw that out. It's one of the most fascinating studies that I have seen in the Word of God of how angels connect you to your destiny. But they also connect the ecclesias, the New Testament churches, to their destinies and purpose because each ecclesia hub are New Testament church. They have a purpose too. So I begin to look at that over and over,

and it became the first book that I wrote. It's fascinating, some 20-some ways that angels are assigned to your life. And they're very real. Well, the bigger picture, what you talk about in the book, is you're, I mean,

you're reiterating what the Holy Spirit spoke to you 15 years ago, that he is leading another campaign for the Lord Jesus. And did he actually said in that like Acts 2, only more so that he similar. He said similar to Acts. The Holy Spirit referenced the scripture.

This is just amazing to me because, I mean, part of the reason it's amazing to me or thrilling to me is because it confirms what I have sensed is that we are living in a spiritually very, very exciting time. And I hate when people say stuff like that just to pump it up or whatever. If it's not true, don't say it. Right. But you believe and I believe that God has said this, that he wants to do glorious things. We have a lot to be excited about.

When we come back, folks, I'm talking to Tim Sheets. The brand new book is Angel Army. Welcome back, folks. I'm talking to Pastor Tim Sheets. He has been for 47 years the head of Oasis Church in Ohio. we're talking about his brand new book called Angel Armies. And I was just saying, Tim, that a number of us have a sense that we're living in a tremendously exciting era. I think a lot of times Christians, especially you don't really believe in the supernatural,

they kind of think, eh, you know, things are always kind of the same. Like, you know, yeah, I know Jesus is coming back, but not really. Like, nothing ever changes. And, you know, you want to remind them, that's not true. In history, there are dramatic moments. In 1776, something happened that didn't happen in 1750 or in 1820. A new nation was born in 1776. There are times in history.

There was a time in history where the Lord appointed Jesus came into the world. It didn't happen before that. It didn't happen. After that it happened when the Lord determined it. People forget that there are dramatic moments. There's a moment when the Berlin Wall fell and the USSR went away. There are these moments. and we're living in a very, very exciting moment.

And you say 15 years ago, the Lord said this to you. I know the Lord spoke something similar to your brother Dutch, that when he said, I need to have this country. And then at some point more recently, he said, I don't remember the exact words, but maybe you do, affirming that I will have this country and that this nation will serve me, the nation. America will be saved, is how he usually puts it.

America will be saved. Will. Yeah, it will be saved. And it will be. We are beginning, I believe, Eric, the third great awakening in the United States. And it goes back to what Holy Spirit said concerning I will lead a similar campaign. You have to understand one of the names of Holy Spirit, who is, of course, a part of the Godhead. He is Lord Sabio, the Lord of Angel armies.

So when he came in Acts chapter 2, he came with angel armies. The Godhead is always accompanied by angel armies, and that's all over the book. So why wouldn't he come now with more angel armies than in Acts chapter 2? There was only one ecclesea in Acts chapter 2. Now there are hundreds. There was only one New Testament church, and it was small. But that small church took the world. What would happen now if there's an outpouring similar on five or six hundred or more churches

in regions in all the continents, all seven continents, and Holy Spirit comes in that outpouring with more of the angel armies to assist those ecclesias to accomplish an assignment given by the Lord on those churches? Because all New Testament churches have an assignment for their region to shine for Christ in that region, to make a stand even against natural government opposition in that region, to make a stand in the cultural mountains in that region. And each one's a little unique. Why wouldn't you need unique angels? And after that night, and I was a charismatic pastor for the charismatic movie, one of the fastest-growing churches in America.

I started to see angels, and that threw me a little bit because I never had. I was aware of them, but I stood the next week after Holy Spirit said that on the platform, and I looked in the balcony, and I saw two angels just as clear as I can see you. I knew they were spirit beings, they were light beings, but I knew. and since then, Eric, different divisions of angel armies, I have been able to see them as a discerning of spirit type thing, and I can identify them. This may seem weird to people, I'm just over that.

They wear different clothing like uniforms of soldiers. You can tell a Marine by what he wears. of the awakening angels that appeared in the balcony had a blue sash on. And every time I've seen them, and I've seen many of them, you know, sometimes a group of 30 or 40, they'll have the blue sash on in some meetings. Then on the other side was a government angel, and it always has a purple sash. Purple is the color of government in the scriptures. You can see that.

Kings were purple, fine linen. and kings always wore a government color of purple. And every time I see one, it has that. I know that sounds funny to some people, but every service that we have had here since that time that Holy Spirit said that the government angel and the awakening or reformation or revival angel has been in the balcony of a church that I can see.

Others don't see it, but I do. Not that I'm special. Holy Spirit was teaching. me something. And then I began to see other divisions of angels, Eric, and they were all dressed differently that I could identify them, deliverance angels, glory angels, healing angels, and that's a part of the book, because I go into healings and miracles and signs and wonders and how angels connect us to that in this book. But just like you can identify other soldiers in the natural realm, I saw that in the spirit realm so I could identify them. And God let me do that. I didn't ask for it. I didn't. I wasn't

praying about that. It wasn't even what I was praying about out at the lake. But Holy Spirit said, here's what I want you to do. Here's your assignment. Now teach it. Put Bible behind everything you're saying. And I have. I put the chapter and verse there. And so that people can see, this isn't new. It's been going on for 3,000 years. We're got to go to a break here, but this is delightful to me. And folks, I just challenge you. If you're listening to Tim speak right now, do you think he's lying? You think he's delusional? He's making it up. If you do, you're just not very sensitive to this kind of thing. This is clearly true. The question is, what do we do with it? We'll be right back with Tim Sheets. Folks, welcome back. I'm talking to Pastor Tim Sheets, S-H-E-E-T-S-E-E-T-S.

brother of Dutch Sheets, who we now know is really named William Harmon Sheets, but we call him Dutch. And you're sharing a lot of exciting stuff, Tim. And I think, again, we live in a world that is so secular, that many Christians do not even believe this stuff. They say, well, I believe in the Bible. I believe Jesus rose from the dead. But, you know, this stuff, it makes me uncomfortable. Well, tough luck if it makes you uncomfortable. The question is whether it is true.

true. And you have a responsibility to be honest about this, not to worry about what your friends think. If you're worried about what your friends think or other people, shame on you because we're supposed to stand for what is true. So if these are lies or hallucinations, let's determine that. If they're not, let's figure out what God wants us to do. So angels are real. The fact, Tim, that God has allowed you this privilege of teaching about this from the scripture, of seeing into the spirit realm. I have a very, very little bit. Others have very, very much more seen into the spirit realm. And of course, there are false teachers and false prophets and confused people. And we have to be clear about that.

Somebody who says God said, you really want to know, did God say that? And if not, you know, you need to rebuke that person or stop listening to them. But there are plenty folks out there that are kind of, you know, blowing enough smoke that I don't want anything to do with them. But I know one of the reasons I revere you and Dutch, you don't do that. You're just clear as a bell. You have sort of a solid Midwestern view of the world. You're not, you know, as I say, blowing smoke. So this is vital to me that people hear what you're saying. And you mentioned healing angels. I have a sense and others have said that we're on the verge of many miracles happening, that part of the revival, part of people coming to faith, has to do as it did an act. and has it has done through history with miraculous healings and other things. Yes. Signs, wonders, miracles, deliverance, and supernatural healings, and notable miracles are now in season, I believe.

It's why we just did our Healing Summit last Friday night, and we've done four of those now with Dutch and four other apostles, and we lay hands on the sick. We invite them to come from everywhere. I think we're up over 800 churches now. that have live streamed it and other countries as well. And what we do is a church maybe, say, in Dakota or wherever, they can live stream this live event.

And when we come to the healing lines, they call for the healing line at their location, and the pastor and elders there lay hands on the sick. And we're praying for signs, wonders, miracles, and healings. We pray for people, and they live stream it into hospitals, hospices. and a lot of people gather in their living rooms. They have a family member that is sick or maybe with an incurable disease. And families gather around at that point and all six of us begin to pray for them. And God gives us words of knowledge, words of healing to send to them.

And the family members, Eric, I had people, when we did the first one about a year ago, they said, we've never done this. What do we do? I'd say, well, lay your hands on their shoulder or gather around them and ask Jesus to heal them. And we'll start praying. And they're doing it. Many thousands of homes did it last week. So, yes, it is time for that.

But it's also a part of my heritage. Me and Dutch were raised in the healing movement back when the voice of healing was going, Gordon Lindsay and it was Oral Roberts, Tia L. Osborne, A.A. Allen, great healing evangelist. My dad was one of them. So when I was a boy, and this would include Dutch as well, we worked the altars for our dad, catching people that may fall under the power, but also, and I know this is hard for people to believe, and even where angels are concerned, it's hard for people to believe. I always say it this way. Don't believe me. Just don't. Look in here and see what the Bible says, because I'm going to give you a chapter and verse, and I'm going to give you several references

to that. And if I don't know if it's an opinion, I'm going to tell you it's an opinion. But angels are all over signs, wonders, and miracles in the Bible. Why wouldn't they be now? You can't find any scripture where Michael, Gabriel, or any of the other angels ever passed away. what are they doing they are alive and active right now michael's the prince of israel you think he wasn't involved last week he certainly was he didn't die he's an archangel the spirit beings don't die but but where healings are concerned i was raised in that i saw things that you can't convince me that god isn't healing today i saw miracles that absolutely you boggle your mind.

And these were in churches like, I don't know, 100, 150 people, small churches, until the tent revival started with the bigger evangelist. When I was a boy, people like Gordon, Lindsey, even Oro Roberts, they would come through our little church when I was a kid. I didn't even know them. I was a kid running around. Now they're, you know, I know them now, but they were famous. Till Osborne, he didn't.

He was instrumental in me going to Bible school. Anyway, I saw, if we've got time, I'll tell you a couple of them. I, me and Dutch must have been, I don't know, 11 or 12. And my dad was holding a healing meeting at a small church, maybe a half hour from where we live. And he and the pastor, after he preached, and my Dutch and I had gone with dad to, work the healing line in this small church. And we had to sit on the front row because, well, Dutch would never, he was always rowy. So we had to sit on the front row. And we were right there and having to pay attention. Eric, before God, they pushed a man up in a wheelchair, twisted,

just twisted up in the wheelchair. So I'm three or four feet away from this. And my dad and that other pastor gathered around that man and began to pray. And you could hear pops. I promise. Like chiropractic popping, only dozens pop, pop, pop, and that man unwound in that chair and jumped. You can't make that up, and I saw it. I saw it with these eyes. I mean, I'm like the man born blind. I don't, you'd say whatever you want. But that happened. This is the thing that people have to determine. Folks, you've got to determine.

Is Tim making it up? Is he lying? Is he confused? Doesn't sound like it to me. This stuff is real. When we come back, we'll continue talking about it. The book is Angel Armies. We'll be right back with Tim Sheets.

Back to talking to Tim Sheets, Pastor Tim Sheets. The new book is Angel Armies. And Tim, so you're just sharing this. And this is the thing that I find so baffling, the world in which we live. I mean, it's a world of lies and brokenness and sin and death where most people live in another reality that this stuff is just not true. It's got to be fraudulent. It's always fraudulent, you know, religious people can't be trusted.

They're out for the money or whatever it is. But you and I and so many others know that this is a reality that God does these kinds of things. I mean, just a week ago, I was at his vineyard church in Bethel, Connecticut, very, very small church. My friend Ken Fish was ministering. He does healing and deliverance. And what I saw, you can't make it up. I mean, people are just crumbling under the power of the Holy Spirit, lying there kind of like in a trance as the Lord ministers to them for 10 minutes, 20 minutes on the floor. What do people think is going on? And again, people have to say, well, I don't know. It's massive. or it's delu- ladies and gentlemen, I have been at so many of these things that it can't all be fake. I see what's happening just as you, Tim, have described that you're a kid and you see somebody

coming who's twisted, utterly crippled, and you hear things. You hear popping. You hear what do people think that is? Folks, this is real. And you need to ask God to make it real to your spirit so that you're not in constant cynicism and doubt about this. this stuff is real and God is doing it for his glory, folks, for his glory, not for the glory of the evangelist or the healer or whoever it is who's praying, but for God's glory, we need to be real

clear about that. So, Tim, just keep talking about what you have seen. This is so exciting. Well, yeah, I've seen so many miracles and healings as a boy. This is also something that Dutch and I did as young boys on especially Sunday nights and Wednesday nights at our church. Dad called them healing deliverance rallies. And one of our assignments was to get to church an hour and a half before church to help ambulances park and push people into the meeting. Back then you could do that. If you were incurable and families would do it.

And I mean, it wasn't like hundreds of ambulances, but you could get an ambulance come and they would push them up to the altar, and then Dad would pray for them during the service. That was one of my jobs, and I would not lie and say that every one of them were healed, and some were put back in the ambulance. But there were some that didn't, and I saw that. I also saw, and Dutch and I were talking about this last week to the other. guy is saying, I know it's hard to believe, but a lady was dying with cancer. And when Dad prayed for her, she began to convulse, jerk, and coughed. And she coughed up the grossest thing.

And I remember it well because me and Dutch had to clean it up off the floor. But Dad also had a radio program, and he played her testimony that she was healed. Her doctors verified the cancer's gone. Now, what was that? Some kind of mass. I don't know, and I can't explain it. And we don't want to know. We don't want to know, but we know it was real. I saw it happened. And I don't understand this. I pray for a lot of backs and they're healed. I don't understand why. I'm not that good with anything else. But that one is something I've been anointed to, but my dad, people would come with the cataracts. And I, not all of them, a lot of them, cataract, this like vassoline stuff would melt and run down their cheeks.

And me and Dutch would hand them to Kleenex to clean it off. And Dad would do this with the fingers. I know there's a lot of fake stuff out there. We got to come back. We're going to hold you over to the next segment because, folks, I hope you're getting excited. You should get excited. You should ask God to reveal this to you. Ask God to show you where churches that pray for this kind of thing.

this is what God is doing. We'll be right back.