The Eric Metaxas Show - Troy Miller

Episode Date: October 18, 2024

Troy Miller CEO National Religious Broadcasters Association joins the program with perspective on the state of the affairs.

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I wop vanilla. Here comes Eric Metaxus. Hey there, folks. I'm still in Phoenix. Chris Himes, now you're in Phoenix, too. It's true. I'm here. I honestly, I don't know how I got here.

I guess I took a plane and that'll do it to you. That's pretty much how it happens. But yesterday I did something I've never done before. Hug a stranger. What's that? Hug a strange. No, I'm not going to do that. No, I hug strangers all the time.

Well, I meant like someone who's not being introduced to you, like a random stranger. Oh, yeah, I don't do that. No, I don't do that. No, but in the book lines, this is why it's fun for me when people, you know, in a minute I'm going to tell my schedule because I want people to come to these events. I love meeting people, I've read my books or whatever. And every once in a while, somebody will say, can I get a hug? And I am so thrilled to hug somebody. Like I have to say, what a blessing that somebody would even say such a thing to me.

So, yeah, I hug people that I've just met. But they're not really strangers. They're people that, you know, on some weird level, we do know each other because they've listened to the program or they've read my books. Or, you know, it's just, but it really is, it's so much fun to meet people. So this road trip that I'm on right now, I mean, honestly, our one today, I talked to John Smirak. think I shared a little bit of what's going on. But we are in Phoenix right now. And the hotel that we're in is like the ape village from the early planet of the ape movies from the 70s.

It's so, yeah, that's what it feels like. Yeah, kind of a sprawling complex of cement and stucco or whatever the stonework is. Yeah. You know what the word for it is? It's ugly. It's called ugly. Well, the rooms are nice. No, no, the rooms are nice.

Yes. But the architecture, I find unpleasant. But the people are nice and the rooms are nice. And you're here and I'm here and we're in different rooms and we're doing radio. So everything's fine. But this has been the craziest trip. I mean, I was telling people I was in Dana Point, California for Seth Gruber's gala event, amazing.

The White Rose Resistance. Seth Gruber is a total hero. I, we were at the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs for an event. I, in a couple of days, because now we're in Phoenix, I fly back to Colorado Springs to go back to the Broadmoor. There's a James Dobson event that I'm speaking at. After that, I fly to Dallas and I go to, I'm speaking in Mesquite, the Cowboy Church. is having an event Saturday afternoon in Mesquite.

I hope that's how it's pronounced. I might be wrong. But it's in Texas right outside Dallas. I'm speaking there Saturday night. Sunday morning, I'm speaking twice at a church in Frisco, Texas. But this is like the craziest road trip, honestly, that I've ever been on day after day after day, just craziness, absolutely good, like good stuff. But tomorrow night here in Phoenix, the main reason we're here is there is a screening

of the Bonhofer film. Ladies and gentlemen, in case you didn't know, there's a Bonhofer film, and it's fantastic, and I'm telling everybody, do not forget. Do not forget. Do right in your calendar,

November 22nd, you've got to see it the opening weekend. If it doesn't open big, now look, I wouldn't say it's a great film, unless it were a great film. I've seen it a couple of times. It's a great film.

It's everything, you know, I hope that a Bonhofer film would be, right, when somebody said that my book had inspired them to make a Bonhoeffer film, and it took all these years. And so now it's coming out. You've got to support it. November 22nd. If the weekend is a big weekend, they will keep it in theaters. Otherwise, they start shutting down theaters, and Gladiator and, I don't know, despicable Blee, 7 or something like that will be the top box office. So very, very important. But so tomorrow night here in Phoenix, there's going to be a special you know, when I say screening, this is a sneak peek because the film doesn't come out until

November 2nd. But I'm speaking before that tomorrow night. Then I go to Colorado Springs to the James Dobson event. And on and on it goes. Since we're on the subject of my travels, I'm going to be in Atlanta, October 23rd. That's next week. After that, I fly to Spokane, Washington. There's a special event in Spokane. After that, we go to the Museum of the Bible. There's a special Socrates in the city event at the Museum of the Bible October 30th. If you go to Socrates and city.com, you can check that out. But that's Museum of the Bible, Washington, D.C. There's going to be another screening of the Bonhoeffer film.

And I will be talking about Bonhoffer. I'm going to give a speech on Bonhoffer. It's exciting that people are turning their attention back to Bonhofer because we're in a time right now, as I have said in my two most recent books, that the parallel. to Bonhofer's time, unfortunately, are very clear and important and serious. So that's next week, Sox and City, or two weeks from now, October 30th. Then I go to Boise, Idaho. Holy guacamole. Then I think I go to Palm Springs. Then I believe we're having an election in America. And there are many Christians that John Zmirich and I were talking about who are not going to vote or who are not registered.

and I want to say... I kind of don't believe that totally. I know they keep saying it like it's... I feel like they're trying to suggest that they're not going to vote as a way to sort of get these people to not vote. But I feel like... The memo has to be out at this point, don't you think? No, I don't think.

All right. Well, we'll keep bringing up. No, there's a lot of low-information voters. There are a lot of Christians that are... I mean, they don't... Listen, let's be clear. Why did I write letter to the American Church? because in Germany in the 30s, there were tons and tons and tons of Christians who had no idea that it was their obligation to God to stand against the evil of the Nazis.

They had no idea. Their pastors had no idea. There are tons and tons and tons of American Christians who have no idea that this is their moral obligation. They would even argue many of them and say, no, it's not. And I'm here to tell you, it is. And I ask. ask you to prayerfully take that seriously. You know, anyway, I want to, a weird thing happened on the plane yesterday, Chris. I wanted to share this with the group. Can I share this? You got to take it for a spin?

They let you fly? I'm a super frequent flyer on Delta and on American. Yes, yes. So I always fly Delta or American. I mean, I've got like over a million miles on each, I think. And so. But yesterday, because I was in Colorado Springs, had to go to Phoenix. There was really nothing, there were not great options.

And so I did, for the first time in my life, I flew southwest. Wow. And I felt like I was getting on a prison van. Nah, that's not true. But a little bit. Like, it was kind of, it was like. Hot down. And I felt like I was kind of wearing like a rich guy costume.

Like I was wearing my blue blazer and whatever. And I thought, this is like Thirst and Hell the Third. getting on a Greyhound bus. Now, I'm not wealthy, but like I had that vibe, like I'm dressed wrong. Like, I'm not wearing a hoodie or crocs or I don't know what, you know, whatever. I don't have my arm. Like, I'm not wearing a tattoo sleeve or whatever. So it was like it was a funny experience. And we get on the flight, and this is no joke. I'm with our colleague, Jared, Jared. And I'm sitting in the window seat reading a book about Socrates. Socrates in the city, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm reading the book, the title is Socrates.

Then there's Jared sitting next to me. The guy sitting next to Jared, a young guy, is reading Aristotle. Wow. Not exactly what you'd expect to find on any flight, much less a Southwest flight, much less in the same row. Somebody reading Socrates, another person reading Aristotle. So I was very encouraged.

I was very encouraged. And Jared was drinking a piping glass of hemlock in the middle of you. Yeah, a piping glass, a frothy glass provided because we had like a beverage voucher that they give you at Southwest Airlines. He chose hemlock and he's no longer among us, which is sad, actually. But all right, when we come back today, we have Troy Miller. We're going to be telling you about the cruise. And at the end of the hour, I got some freaky things I want to

share with the group. Don't forget up at the Heritage Foundation. Go to 25truth.com. That's 25truth.com. The folks of the Heritage Foundation are heroes, folks. They're doing good work. The Heritage Foundation, we're going to have Kevin Roberts, the head of the Heritage Foundation, back on the program soon, talk about current events. In the meantime, check out 25truth.com. Hey, folks, we're officially in that time of the year where eating becomes way off-balanced. Parties, holidays, family gatherings always mean more snacks, more sweets, and generally indulging in all the wrong foods.

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Troy Miller, who's president and CEO of the NRB National Religious Broadcasters Association. I've been involved with NRB. I don't know how many years. Many, many years. I've been to every single one of the conventions every year. I mean, going back, I can't count the years. I remember sort of when I started. But we're there every year.

There's nothing like it. But a lot of people, Troy, don't know anything about it. So for folks who are not familiar with NRB, what is it? So NRB, the National Religious Broadcasters Association, is a organization that represents Christian communicators in North America and around the world. And we advocate on behalf of those communicators to be able to stay in the public square, to stay in the places of communication where God has called you, whatever your ministry is, whatever God's called you to do in that ministry, we work hard in the avenues of Washington, D.C.,

and our courtrooms across the country and in mainstream media. We're even working in the boardrooms today to make sure that Christians can continue to communicate. We've been doing that for 80 years now. 80 years. Well, I just have to say that the situation we find ourselves in now, I mean, I remember people used to say this years ago, and I thought, oh, really? Oh, Christians are under attack. Christian values are under attack. It's a fact.

We're living in a society where the cultural elites are secular. they either are openly hostile to what people of faith believe, or they're so ignorant of it that they are inadvertently hostile to it. They're not aware that they don't speak the language or whatever. And, you know, I've written about it and spoken about it many, many times, but the link between faith and freedom is unavoidable. This is not just people who love America, love God. No, no, no.

There's a link. You don't get America. without people of Christian faith. And there's something sacred there in the sense that you cannot get rid of Christian faith. You can't legislate Christian faith. But if you get rid of Christian faith, if you secularize the nation as has been happening, freedom goes down. And so we really are in a war simply for free speech.

I mean, people are saying that if I say what I believe as a Christian, I'm saying things that I shouldn't say or I can't say. So we're in a war simply to educate people about what free speech. is that patriots have died for free speech. Yeah, that's right to just educate people about what free speech is. And you're right. You know, our founding father said that they understood that our constitutional republic would not work without a Christian nation that held on those DeJio Christian values and morality. If you take that out, you see what you have today in America, this growing anarchy, growing crime, growing folks who don't love one another and who really actually, not only that, have no respect for life. And so even Elon Musk recently tweeted about this and he said,

without Christianity, the world may fall apart because those values have to be intrinsic in a person. The government can't really push those on you. They might try to push those on you, but they can't push those on you. All they can do is control you. And I think that's where we see most of the hostility today because there's a group out there that would like the government to be our God, would like the government to be the ones who rule over us, not only rule over us, but the ones we should bow down and worship to. These elitists have that kind of attitude today. And look, look around us, Eric, look what's happening. Look at the crime rates are up. Look at the number of riots that go on. Look at all of the lawlessness that's going on in this country. And what is it? It's really our

loss of faith. Well, there's no question about it because you have, you know, when morality goes down, crime goes up. But the other thing that happens is freedom. goes away. These things are unavoidably linked. And I think that we've had it so good for so long that we don't understand that if this goes away, that goes away. So anybody calling for a secular culture or for what Father Richard John Newhouse called the naked public square, we're going to strip faith out of the public square. That's not what the founders said. That's a distortion, dramatic distortion. In fact, it's the inversion of the separation of church and state. We're supposed to have robust expressions of faith, protected,

by our founding documents protected by law. And when people try to push faith out, inevitably what comes in is the opposite of self-government. It's government by others. It's government by bureaucracy, government by elected bureaucrats, government by tyrants. You cannot have American-style self-government without people of faith. But most people of faith really don't know this, and that's why we're talking about it. Yeah, they don't understand that when our forefathers really say, sat down and came up with the Constitution when they were really looking at the country that they

understood because they came from this monarchy, right? They came from when they understood what tyranny was. They understood what it meant to be governed by those who were in an unapproached kind of rule, right? So there was no accountability for them. And they wanted the people to have that accountability. But the only way that people could hold that accountability is that the people had freedoms. So they enshrined those freedoms in the First Amendment. It's interesting. The freedom of speech, the freedom of religion, the freedom of exercise, right, free exercise thereof, the freedom of the press and the freedom of assembly, the freedom to petition the government. Those freedoms were the basic foundations that set forth everything else in motion of this country. And those freedoms were

established upon biblical freedoms that they understood were granted by God, not granted by anybody else. And without those, if you take those away, tyranny is the only thing you're going to get. People, I mean, honestly, it amazes me that most people, myself included until I wrote my book, if you can keep it, the forgotten promise of American liberty, until I wrote if you can keep it, which I recommend not because I wrote it,

but because this stuff is in there, until I wrote that book, I myself didn't understand this. And once I got it, I thought, how is it possible that I could have missed this? And you realize it's possible because we've been going on fumes. In other words, we've had this so long as part of who we are as a people, then when it begins to go away, you don't see it right away.

It's kind of like a cut flower. You cut the flowers. Oh, it looks beautiful. Well, it's dying. That's where we are. So we have to rediscover this stuff. And the link between faith and freedom, I call it the golden triangle of freedom. I got that idea from Oz Guinness, where you cannot, I mean, it's so basic, right?

Self-government, to govern myself, to not be governed from without, to really be free to govern myself, I have to govern myself. Why would I do the right thing if there's no bureaucracy forcing me? There's no gun. There's no sword forcing me to do the right thing. Why would I do that? Because I believe in a higher power. I believe that God wants me to do the right thing.

God wants me to be honorable and to not steal. And only the founders understood that we have a possibility of pulling this off because there's enough people in America that understand this. But then how does it keep going? And Franklin said, we don't know if it can keep going. We'll see if it keeps going. So it's kind of amazing. Even Lincoln, and I actually wrote about this in if you can keep it,

Lincoln understood this better than anyone after the founders. And he was already afraid in 1838 when he gave his famous Lyceum speech in Springfield that this is being forgotten. The founder's vision is being forgotten. How do we keep this going? And at the heart of it, unavoidably, is faith. It's just unavoidable. But I think a lot of Christians themselves don't know that.

Yeah, I think you're right. A lot of Christians don't understand that at the heart of this is their faith because of that, as you said, self-governance, because the idea that we understand that one day we'll give accountability to our creator, not ultimately accountability to the state, but we're accountable to the creator. And God's called us then to be accountable for the state because the state is supposed to be there to keep social protection in place, not as you said, not the state is not. there to replace God. It's not there to replace our conscience or our freedom. It's there to keep social norms in place, social protection in place. And Christians, if we don't wake up today, if we don't understand that those freedoms, we're going to end up like Canada, where Canada decides for pastors what you can and can't say in the pulpit. So today, if you're a Canadian communicator,

Canadian broadcaster, Canada decides you can talk about this. You can't talk about Romans 1. You can't talk about this. You can't talk about that in Leviticus. And that's not the kind of faith, the kinds of freedoms we've had in this country. I mean, if you, if that doesn't make your blood boil that the government in Canada can tell pastors what they can and cannot say, folks, if that doesn't make your blood boil, you're a bum, you're part of the problem, and you deserve to live in a place. Move to North Korea, get it over with, because they'll tell you exactly what you can and cannot do.

Every American should be offended because patriots have bled and suffered and died so that we could have these freedoms. And again, I think that we've gotten so spoiled. I always think of Bonhoeffer. He saw this in Germany in the 30s. They had no idea. Their view of grace, the grace of God, had become so attenuated that they didn't really understand, wow, what it cost the son of God. And I think that, again, it's kind of natural, this kind of drift. But you have many American Christians and pastors who really have no idea that page. many of them not Christians, bled and died so that you pastor could say what you want from your conscience to your congregation. And if we need proof that that can go away, you just mentioned it.

You just said in Canada, now by the way, this is going on in England. That's right. This is where we are today. And we'll be right back, folks. I'm talking to Troy Miller. You can find it at nrb.org. But what we're talking about is happening in America. I want to be very clear to people listening.

this is happening. If you go to a church that is looking the other way, you are guilty. Folks, you heard it here. You're guilty. If you're going to a church that is looking the other way, as these evils happen, God wants every one of us to be involved, not just to vote, but to be engaged. I'm talking to Troy Miller. You can go to nrb.org. We'll be right back to continue this conversation. I like knowing exactly where my meat comes from. And with Moink, that place is from small family farms all across the country. and you can help save the family farm and get access to the highest quality meat when you join the Moink movement today. Moink farmers farm like our grandparents did, and that means meat tastes like it should. Moink delivers grass-fed beef and lamb, pastured pork and chicken, a sustainable wild-caught, Alaskan salmon, delivered straight to your door.

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Go to Nutrametics. That's N-U-T-R-A-M-E-D-I-X.com. Nutrametics.com use the code Eric for 15% off. Again, Nutrametics, N-U-T-R-A-M-D-I-X.com. Nutrametics.com, use the code Eric for 15% off. Welcome back talking to Troy Miller, who heads up the N-R-B-B-E-R-B. Again, I've known the NRB for such a long time now I lose track.

In fact, it was in 2015 we recorded a whole bunch of Socrates in the city sessions in England. In England. Not this year, folks, as we did it this year, but in 2015, NRB was there. That was an amazing experience. You guys believe in, you know, what I believe in, which is why we're friends. What else can we tell my audience about what you guys are up to at the NRB? So the NRB Association of Religious Broadcasters, we have an annual conference every year. We'll be in February 24th through the 27th in Great Vine, Texas at the Gaylord Texan.

It's the largest gathering of Christian communicators in the country. And so if you want to know what's going on in Christian broadcasting, or you ever thought you want to get into Christian communications, that's the place to be. You can find out. And plus, we also bring experts in to talk about all the current issues that are facing us today, as Christian as as as communicators. So when is it happening this coming year?

So it's in February. It comes up in February 24th through the 27th in Great Vine, Texas. And you can go to nrb.org and find out all about it. Okay. I know I will be there, folks. If you want to watch me do my radio show, it's actually fun every year we do it. So the NRB, I want to talk a little bit about the Johnson Amendment because I remember so many. And again, I talk about this in my booklet, The American Church.

I talk about it everywhere I go, that somehow American pastors got this idea that we're not supposed to be political. That is not biblical. But they act as though it's in scripture. They act as though it's like some law that everybody knows. And you realize, no, there's no law. There's nothing in the Bible. In fact, you're supposed to be political if your government is pushing evil policies. Bonhofer said this.

He made this very, very clear. It is our job to stand. with the victim. If the government is attacking people, we as the church are obliged to stand up for the victim to get involved. Many pastors in Germany said, no, no, no, that's not our job. We're just going to do church. And when Trump came in office, he was baffled. Why are pastors saying they won't endorse me? This is really weird. Why? We agree on so much. And then he discovered, oh, it's the Johnson Amendment. This corrupt politician, Lyndon Baines Johnson, instituted something to silence the church.

And many pastors just rolled over, this was in the 50s, and said, okay, we don't want any trouble. That is no different than the German pastors that said, okay, Hitler, we don't want any trouble. Tell us what we can say and what we can do, an utter abdication of God's calling on their lives. Yeah, matter of fact, he was vindictive in this because churches stood up and pastors had stood up in Texas

and opposed his Senate race. So he was running for the Senate at the time, and they had opposed that. So when he got into office, he said, I'm going to silence these pastors. These churches shouldn't be talking about me. And he slipped this little bill in along and never even got a vote in the Senate. You slipped it in, attached it to one of the other bills going through, and now it became the Johnson Amendment.

And it has three parts to it. One, it says that pastors can, first of a 101C3 organizations to get a nonprofit status from the Internal Revenue Service. You can't donate money to candidates. You can't endorse or oppose candidates. And then it puts restrictions on lobbying. So we're looking at this saying, look, we agree with the first two, okay, 501C3 organizations, the first three. Not giving money to candidates and not doing excess lobbying because that's not what nonprofits are called to do. But the middle one to silence pastors who fall under that 501C3 designation to silent people across this country to say,

your First Amendment rights don't count. You can't talk. and then for the IRS to enforce it inconsistently over the year. That's the whole point. They don't enforce it. They're just, you know. Well, they do inconsistently. They've written letters to conservative churches or conservative pastors when they've spoken

out on these issues. Even, Eric, even to pastors who simply had candidates in and prayed for them, never even had the candidates speak, didn't endorse the candidate, just simply brought them in and prayed for them. Those churches received letters from the IRS saying, hey, if you do this again, we're going to come in and take your nonprofit status away from you. And look, this is exactly what Lyndon Baines Johnson did. He was a corrupt, wicked man.

And when he got power, he said, I'm going after the churches. What do you think is going to happen if Kamala Harris and Tim Walskid? And I mean, we have to be honest, folks, that they are, their values are, they are at war with what most Christians believe and say, oh, Eric, you're being political. I'm simply speaking the truth. You can vote for whom you like. but when they come after you, once they get power, the way LBJ got power and went after the churches, why wouldn't they do that?

I mean, you have to be logical. Why wouldn't they do that? Well, you only have to look back to the Obama administration and see how the IRS was weaponized and some of the things that came out from there to look at these kinds of issues for the churches. And let me make it clear. We think all churches, whether you're a conservative, liberal or progressive church, whether you're a conservative liberal nonprofit newspaper, we think all of them have the right to do this and should have the right to speak.

speak up about this. But you're exactly right. The continued weaponization of government. This is going to be one of the tools that we look at used against the church along with, you know, looking at the broadcast license for Christian communicators like yourself. You know, what is, what are they going to do to silence us? Because I believe that the church is the last firewall. It is the firewall that is stopping this kind of socialist, Marxist, agenda, and ideology from moving forward. They know they have to the church out of the way because the church gives people hope? There is no doubt about this, ladies and gentlemen. What do communist countries do?

They come after the churches. They come after the pastors. This is over and over and over in history. We have to be aware of what we're going through. And again, German pastors, they said, oh, we didn't know where it was going. Well, Bonhofer tried to warn you. I'm trying to warn you now.

Others are trying to warn you. The NRB and Troy Miller are trying to say, you've got to wake up to where you are now. 1985 anymore. Tip O'Neill is not the head of the Democratic Party. It's a new day. So do your homework. Visit nrb.org. Troy Miller, my friend, thank you. Thank you for having me. Couldn't even see the floor. I'd be sad and blue if not for you. A large retail store just canceled a huge order leaving my pillow with a ton of extra my pillows. But you know what? That's their loss and your gain. For the first time,

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just $99 a month up to age 75. Wow. I want to talk about the Socrates in the City book. I think I mentioned it yesterday. I hope I did. We've never done a Socrates in the City book before. This is published by Socrates in the City books. So we've started an imprint called.

It's actually, no, it's a publishing arm. It's not an imprint. It's a bona fide public. We are the publishers. And it's Socrates in the City books. And the first book is called Socrates and the City Conversations on the Examined Life. In other words, it is transcripts that I've edited of the best of the best of the conversations that I've had doing Socrates and the City events over 25 years.

And I think I said it. But some of them are so sparkling. The one with Dick Cavett is unbelievable. I just emailed him this morning. we're sending him a copy of the book. But this was a conversation I had with him in 2011. And it is truly an amazing conversation about fame and celebrity. And oh, my gosh. He, I mean, I will never forget it. He recites from memory a whole Robert Frost poem about fame. It's amazing. The whole thing is a virtuoso performance by Dick Cavett. If you ever wondered how smart and amazing and talented and entertaining he is. So the true.

transcript of that is one of the transcripts in the book. They're about, I guess, 13 in all. There's eight guests. So I've got three with Walter Hooper, who is C.S. Louis, C.S. Louis's secretary at the end of his life, who is a treasure, an absolute treasure. We recorded that in Oxford, England in 2015. I have two conversations with the genius mathematician, apologist, Dr. John Lennox. We have a conversation with Charlie Duke who walked on the moon in 1972. It's just a smorgasbord of amazing, amazing conversations. If you pre-order, you get 20% off. I want to be clear.

So you go to Socrates in the city.com. But if you pre-order, you get 20% off. And you'll get a free copy if you come to our 25th annual gala celebration. I'm sorry. It's not the 25th gala celebration. It's the anniversary celebration gala, because we don't do one of these every year. But we figured since the 25th anniversary of Socrates and City, we will do on December 10th in New York City at the Union League Club a special gala evening. And if you come to that, you'll get a copy, a free copy included, I should say, when you come to that event.

It's going to be a lot of special guests at that event. We're working on it now. I hope to get Dick Havit to come. I hope to get a lot of the folks that you would know over the years of Socrates and the city, Ozgan, many others. So that's at Socratesandascom. We're also doing a November 19th event in Philadelphia. We've never done one in Philadelphia before.

So it's exciting. Go to Socrates in the city.com. I also want to mention the crews that we're doing, we're going to so many different places. I can't remember them all, but the ship leaves June 6th and returns to Athens on June 16th. We're going through the Dardanelles to Istanbul.

I mean, going there with Johns Merak, this is going to be nuts, and you get to be a part of it if you want. We're going to stop in Ephesus. We're going to stop in Crete. I'm really crazy about the idea that we're going to be in Crete because I've never, I've never been to most of these places before ever myself. So it'll be fun from them.

But Crete, I'll be talking more and more about my interest in the Mycenaian era, which is, you know, when Homer is writing about the Iliad in the Ilianodese, he's writing with the Trojan War. This is the Mycenaian era, that civilization. In 1901, Sir Arthur Evans, the head of the. Ashmolean Museum in Oxford. We just visited it. He excavated the Manoan palace at Knossos in Crete. We're going to go visit that. It's, I mean, every, every place we stop is going to be amazing, but I'm already looking forward to that more than any of it. We're also going to go to Santorini, to Micanos. We're going to be, we're going to go to Thessaloniki. We're going to go to Volos.

and of course you could spend a ton of time in Athens on the front end. And what's amazing to me is, you know, you've never been to these places, a lot of them. I've never been to almost any of them. I mean, when we go to Greece, we go to Cephalonia. That's where my father grew up. That's where my family's from. My cousin Yongos is there. I mean, Cephalonia is an amazing, amazing place.

But I've never been to any other places because we always go to Cepalonia and then we'll go home. It's not like I can spend a month or two in Greece. So this is going to be very exciting for me. Ericmetaxis.com slash Cruise is the website. And I don't want to forget the cruise people said that they are only holding special cabins for our group until October 31st.

So if you make, if you're thinking about this, try to make your decision sooner rather than later. Go to ericmataxis.com slash cruise. But I think this will be like a really fun thing to do. If grandparents can like lure their, you know, 19 and 20-year-old grandkids to come with them on the special. It just, this could be a fun family thing. Anyway, we'll be right back with Michael Pack talking about his documentary.

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Use promo code Eric to get the standard My Pillar for only 1488, the lowest price ever. Folks, welcome back. Before we say goodbye, I want to reiterate my idea that the Bonhofer film, which is coming out November 22nd, is an evangelistic opportunity. It is, it's not a Christian, Christian film. And the way you know that is because Kevin Sorbo is not in the film. He's not allowed. He's banned from the film, all right?

And obviously, he's got issues with me. He doesn't want to deal with the facts on the ground that when he was starting on Hercules, I was his mentor in terms of the stunts and a lot of the physical stuff that he did on that show. He wants to distance himself for me. A lot of people say, hey, Eric McTagher. made you. You wouldn't know how to do any of this stuff. You'd be a 97-pound weakling if it weren't for Eric McAxas mentoring you in this physical stuff. And you know what? He doesn't want to hear that. And I understand he's bitter because people give me all the credit for what he accomplished

on that show. But you know what? The facts are what they are. And I'm sorry that Kevin feels that way. Yeah. I mean, a lot of the bodybuilding, you know, the way it works is the technique's really important. And he didn't know what he was doing. And you, you did. And, you did. And listen, I was just doing my job. You know, they said this guy, he's a novice, he doesn't understand this stuff. Can you help him out? And I'm like, remember Denny Terrio? He was the man who taught John Travolta how to dance.

Oh, yeah. For years in the business, I was known as the guy who taught Kevin Sorbo how to, how to Hercules. And he resented it. And you know what? I get that. I get the fact that Sam Sorbo, when she first came on the set, you know, she was interested in me, not in Kevin. I get that. But you know what?

I was not interested in Sam. And eventually she settled for Kevin. And that's cool. That's fine. That's the bridge. That's the business. That's Hollywood. That's the way it goes.

Let's get back. Let's get back to Bonhoffer. I have a serious question. Is Sorbo allowed on the cruise? That's the bigger question because he's Hercules. I can't talk about that. I got to talk to my lawyers because I don't know the language that I'm able to use about that.

But actually, I want to say this, this Friday, so today's Wednesday, this Friday, we're airing two, both hours where you, Chris, interviewed me about Bonhoeffer. It's true. We did it at the TBN studios. And the interest in Bonhofer, of course, it's surging because the film's coming out. A lot of people, I can tell from the book sales that people are buying the book. But I did say this. It's an evangelistic opportunity because the Bonhofer story, it's not a quote, unquote,

Christian story, it points people to God, but you can share it with anybody. You can share the film and the book with anybody. And I want to, except for Sorbo. I want to accept, except for Sorbo. Yeah. I probably haven't mentioned it, but he's banned from reading the book. The whole thing, he's banned. But the thing is that you could share it with anybody. And the best place to get the book is Ericmetaxis.com. So go to Ericmantaxas.com. You can get an autograph copy there. You can get a regular hardcover cheaper than any other place, as far as I know, and all my books, all kinds of stuff. And if you want to know about the cruise, go to Ericmontexas.com slash cruise. And before we go, ladies and gentlemen, want to remind you of our friends at the Herzog

Foundation. They're the trusted source on American K-12 private education, and they provide a free suite of resources for you, for parents, grandparents, thinking about making the switch from public schools to a Christian education. They have an online publication called The Lion. They have a new podcast. So check them out. They're there to help. This is why I love them.

It's a foundation that's there to help. You can find out more at HerzogFoundation.com. That's Herdsog Foundation.com. Everybody should, of course, be thinking about homeschooling and about genuine Christ-centered K-12 education. so Herzog Foundation.com. I want to recommend them to you. They're friends of this program.

Tomorrow we got a lot of crazy stuff. Bonhofer on Friday, both hours. Oh, my gosh. Fortunately for the listener, we're out of time.