The Eric Metaxas Show - Virginia Prodan

Episode Date: May 25, 2023

Virginia Prodan knows how bad life can become when a country gives in to evil -- Virginia shares her harrowing but ultimately redemptive story from her book, "Saving My Assassin." 

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m.investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mataxis show. They say it's a thin line between love and hate, but we're working every day to thicken that line, or at least to make it a double or triple line. Now here's your line jumping host, Eric Mattaxas.

Hey there, folks. Welcome back. We call this hour two. I don't know why, but we just do. I'm sitting here with Pastor Jack Hibbs. A few minutes left, Jack. I want to tell everyone again that I will be with you in Chino Hills. Next Tuesday is the pastor's conference.

Wednesday night, Chino Hills. Tuesday is the pastor's conference. May 30th. Wednesday night, Chino Hills at your church, I will be speaking. Yes. If people can get to Chino Hills, I'll be speaking there. If you can't get to Chino Hills, I'll still be speaking there. There's nothing you can do about it.

Okay? And can people live stream it? Live stream, YouTube, Facebook. What is your, what do they go to Calvary Chapel? Actually, they can just go to jackhibs.com. It connects them all. Jackhibs.com. They can go into all of the, they can pick their streaming.

So if people are interested, jackhibs.com, this is next Wednesday night, the 30th. Okay, now. Yes. I want to remind people about, you're talking about the ballot collection, that whole thing, people can go to realimpact.us. This is so inspiring to me to hear you talk about this, real impact.us. Now, on the break, you said something that I just said a few days ago. When people talk about, I've been asked questions, like I'll speak and somebody who said, well, you know, I don't know if I don't want to be political. Aren't I supposed to preach the whole council of scripture?

and I thought to myself, excuse me, that's exactly correct. To preach the whole council of scripture is not just to be evangelistic, it's to preach the whole council of scripture to talk about everything with no fear, just talk about the truth. And that's, so talk about that for a minute because a lot of pastors are seriously, genuinely confused on that issue. They've bought this idea that I've just got to question. quote unquote preach the gospel, which is not even a biblical idea.

Even Jesus didn't just preach the gospel. So it's like they're holier than Jesus. No, it's absolutely a strange, it's a strange theology. It's a strange eschatology to say, I just preach the gospel. I don't get involved in that. I just preach the gospel. You need to repent of that because after preaching the gospel, we are commanded in Matthew 28 to make disciples.

That's what we're supposed to do is make disciples. What does that mean? That means we've got just a Sunday or just. just the Wednesday to equip them to live their lives in the public square day and day out where the rubber meets the road. And so that's very, very important to us. And so it is vital that pastors today stop hiding behind their pulpits and get out in front of the pulpit. And they need to show the church how to lead the way when it comes to addressing the drag queen reading hour. The pastor should lead the way.

It's our congregants that should occupy the school board meetings. If we love our kids, if we love our nation, if we love our God, we are going to stand in defense of what is right no matter what the cost is. And when you put the cost up against eternity, we're getting off easy. Well, it's amazing when you say that because there's tremendous timidity among some in the clergy. It's the most bizarre thing because they're supposed to be, you know, on fire with faith in Jesus. But there can be a lot of timidity. And Bonhofer, as I say, was very vocally trying to wake up pastors and say, listen, this is nonsense.

You need to lead the way. You need to be brave and to model a brave, active faith. But a lot of them gave this excuse. No, we just want to preach the gospel. want to offend. We don't want to be divisive. Romans 13, Romans 13. And it's a scandalous thing. We know what happened when those pastors did what they did in Germany. We know how that turned out. Listen, Romans 13, that was used on me a lot. And when I read Romans 13 afresh, I wound up using it on them. Yeah. Because it says in Romans 13 that God has established the authorities that are,

that they, when you read it, that about the officer does. and bear his sword in vain and all of that. And it says that the authorities that have been given by God are given to do good. When Gavin Newsom says strip clubs are open, marijuana shops, dispensaries can be open. You can do all these things. No church. Okay, he lost his mantle of authority when he took his position and exalted evil and canceled good. And I don't know why more people didn't see that.

Well, I mean, you give up on your good calling. It's also obvious that, you know, I, I, some people, you know, when they introduce me at speaking events, they mentioned that I worked with for veggie tales, right? And I was the voice of the narrator on the Esther video. And recently, I thought to myself, you know what, I should reread the book of Esther. and when I reread it, I thought, son of a gun, this is the classic case. Mordecai says to the government, jump in a lake. I will not bow.

You want to kill me? Kill me. I answer to God. It's the classic case. So when somebody wants to quote Roman 13, you say, okay, I like to quote the book of Esther, which doesn't even need to mention the word God to get across the point that we're supposed to answer to God, to fear God.

And how many people don't understand this? And again, I write about it in the book, Let it to the American Church, because you have to explain, how did we get there so that so many in the church think it's a biblical point of view to say, I avoid politics? But, I mean, you can't avoid politics. It's impossible. If slavery is on the ballot, you're going to vote for the pro-slavery candidate or the not? Or, oh, we can't talk about that from the pulpit. Really? Yeah.

Sadly, Eric, you and I already know the answer to that because there are pastors that will not talk about abortion because they say it's controversial. slavery was back on the block today, they wouldn't talk about it. Is rape controversial for them? Are they, they don't want to take a strong position on rape? They're not speaking out against the mutilation of babies right now. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's like it all becomes preposterous. It's like you're tying yourself in pretzels in order.

At what point will you stand? For what? So that a couple of the, the spiritually dead big tithers to your congregation hang out for another year? I mean, it's very strange to me that people, I mean, This is why, I mean, to be positive, I believe this is an opportunity for those who've got it wrong to get it right. And to say, you know what, there's grace. I got it wrong.

But from here on in, I want to serve God. I want to glorify God. That's right. Don't stay wrong. Well, I mean, that's the whole thing is that, you know, some people will, of course, stay wrong. But I really believe if you look at the model of what happened in Germany, a lot of the guys who got it wrong, a lot of these pastors, they realized eventually we got it wrong. The problem was by the time they realized it, it was too late. So the question is whether it is too late in America.

I don't believe it is too late. I believe it is the 11th hour, the 58th minute. I mean, I believe that if we don't repent now, if we don't turn this around pretty quickly, but I believe God is speaking to his people and saying, I want you to learn the lesson of what happened in Braunhofer's Germany right now. And I think that there are many who are, and they are learning the lesson. They're saying, you know what, I got it wrong? I need to get it right.

I need to begin to get it right. I believe that's right. I believe that's what's happening in some scale. And I just pray that the Lord magnifies that effect. Well, people often ask me what you can do. There's a lot you can do. First of all, if you're a pastor or involved in a church, you can go to realimpact.us. Because what you guys are doing, this is phenomenal.

Real Impact.us. I'm surprised I hadn't heard about this till now. Realimpact. com. U.S. And I always say to people, if you're going to a church that refuses

to talk about these things, you need to hustle out of that church. You need to get out of that church. Try to speak to the pastor if there's any chance. But if they're not going to have it, for the love of Pete,

get out of that church. Because you're really complicit in what's going on. If you're giving them a dime, you need to get all your friends and go to a church that is dealing with the evil, that is speaking against evil and encouraging people to do the right thing. You know what? We were supposed to talk like an hour ago. We're launching the real-life network. You're on it. You don't even know that yet.

It launches on Sunday, May 28th. Yeah. It's the real-life network. It's like Hulu. It's like Amazon. It's like Netflix. It's the real-life network. And you guys need to know about it.

It's free subscription, but you've got to subscribe. You're already on. I want to talk to you more about this. We're out of time now, but hang around. Hang around. We'll be back. I don't know about you, but I'm sick and tired of iconic American brands selling us out to appease radical leftists.

But it's not just beer. and sneakers. For years, big mobile companies have been dumping millions into leftist causes, and we had to take it because another option didn't exist. Well, now it does. Patriot Mobile, America's only Christian conservative wireless provider offers dependable nationwide coverage on all three major networks, so you get the best possible service in your area without the woke propaganda pushed by people trying to destroy this country. When you switch to Patriot Mobile, you support free speech, religious freedom, the sanctity of life, the Second Amendment, are military veterans and first responder heroes.

Their 100% U.S.-based customer service team make switching easy. Just go to Patriotmobile.com slash metaxus, M-E-T-A-X-A-S, or call them 9-8-78-8-8-Patriot. Get free activation today with the offer code Metaxus, spelled M-E-T-A-X-S. Ask about their coverage guarantee while you're there. That's PatriotMobile.com slash metaxus. Legacy precious metals has a revolutionary new online plan. that allows you to invest in real gold and silver online. In a few easy steps, you can open an account online, select your medals of choice, and choose to have them stored in a vault or ship

to your door. You have access to a dashboard where you can track your portfolio growth in real time anytime you'll see transparent pricing on each coin and bar. This puts you in complete control of your money. The platform is free to sign up for. Visit legacy pm.investments.com and open your account and see this new investing platform for yourself. Gold hedges against inflation and against the volatile stock market. A true diversified portfolio isn't just more stocks and bonds, but different asset classes. This new platform allows you to make investments in gold and silver, no matter how small or large, with a few clicks.

Visit legacy pminvestments.com to get started. You're going to love this free new tool they've added. Legacy pminvestments.com. Legacy pm investments.com. Check it out. Folks, welcome back. I keep saying I'm at NRB. You never know who's going to stop by.

I'm sitting here with Virginia Prodan, who's been on my program several times. An amazing story. I don't know where to begin. Her book is called Saving My Assassin. Kirkus Reviews calls it a suspenseful thriller and a searing testament to human courage. It is a true story. Virginia, you lived this story. Now, there are a lot of people listening right now.

Maybe they haven't heard you on my program before. So you have to tell the short version of your... I mean, honestly, your story is so amazing. But tell my audience the short version of your story. My story is amazing because it's God's story in my life. He is building his story in my life. And God wants to do the same thing in your life. I grew up in Socialist Romania.

I grew up with parents who in many, many times I watched them being fearful of government and giving up all their rights and inside of home whispering how horrible the government was. And in many ways, I see the same things in America. Listen, every time I talk to somebody who experienced actual communism, today they're saying what you just said to me. They're saying they see this happening in America today. So it's one of the reasons I want you on the program is because people need to know that people like you, you've lived through this. Exactly. And it's evil and they can barely believe what you've been through.

I mean, you've been through terrible things and you see this now coming to America. Exactly. And I am saying I am here to tell you that evil one has a temporary place and temporary power. God has eternal power and in God's hands he can use you for his glory and you can read that in my book

because it's nothing about me I'm under five feet tall and there is a huge God inside of me and the same thing it's in you so don't look at the circumstances look at God and I when socialists and communists comes

they will take your rights they will take your freedom they will take everything that you enjoy today. So pay attention and stand up and be courageous in God's power. And listen, a lot of people can say what you just said, but you have lived this. I want to read what it says on the back of it. The book is called Saving My Assassin. Folks, this is an astonishing story.

It's a true story, and I'm sitting with Virginia right here. The book says, I should be dead. Buried in an unmarked grave in Romania. Obviously, I'm not. God had other plans. And it says that at just under five feet tall, which I can attest to because she's next to me right now, Virginia Prodan was no match for the towering six foot 10 inch gun wielding assassin the Romanian government sent to her office to kill her. This is absolutely true. This was not like he maybe was going.

He was sent to kill you. and by the grace of God somehow miraculously you survived and you told the story, what can you tell us just of that moment so people get some flavor of what we're talking about? I realized when God called me to defend Christians that he called me to a mission bigger than myself. Not only my clients started to be a target, but I became a target. This is in Romania. In Romania. So there's some legal system, and you're in the legal system, but they don't like what you're doing.

Yes. But people have to understand that there's some legal system, right? It's like in China. They give you the semblance, some kind of sense that you have some freedom and you have laws. But when you go awry of that, in your case, they literally sent someone to kill you. Yes, exactly, because I dare to take the government to court and say, you have to respect the law. And that's what God is telling us.

You have to stand up no matter the cost, no matter if you believe that tomorrow you're going to live or not, the problem is that you are a God's child and he will provide for you. I don't know how. So you, at this point in Romania, what year was this when this happened? This was maybe around 1980. Okay.

Yes. So you... The government, the dictator, already declared himself a god yes well chachesko is one of the most evil men in history but when this happened um you why had they sent this man to kill you and what happened in the moment that he came to murder you because when every day they will arrest me they will torture me and say stop defending christians they did not like a person to defend christians so they had already arrested you many times? Yes, absolutely. The government works on

socialist government works on lies. They will arrest you daily. They will not tell you what for. They will not give you a paper. Did they abuse you physically? Yes, physically. They will bank my head at the table or my back to the walls that it was so hard to breathe. I will be full of blood and I will be full of pain. So I knew that God called me to this. I did not have this in mind when I started, but I knew that God was with me.

And let me tell you, in the interrogation room, I fell God's arms around me. I heard God's voice to me and his encouragement. God is real and he will provide everything for you. And when they realize that I am not going to stop, then the government sent an assassin to my office as a client, and he pulled the gun in front of me and said, I'm not your client. I'm here to kill you. And I thought that I'm going to die. And I knew that if I die, I go to heaven.

I was thinking, he's a God's creation. I need to share the gospel, and I share the gospel with him. So wait, wait. So this man comes in, this towering figure to kill you. And you manage to. To share your faith with him in this moment. Yes. This is an extraordinary thing.

It's like out of a movie. In fact, I don't think the movie they could really pull this off because this is pretty extraordinary. But you just shared your faith with this man, this towering figure with a gun come to kill you? Yes, exactly, because for days and years, when the government arrested me and beat me and tortured me, God trained me to love my enemies.

It wasn't nothing that I have done it or I woke up in the morning saying that's what I'm going to do tomorrow. God train me to love people because they are God's creation and they are people that are looking for Christ no matter what. So I want to say to American people, don't look at people that put you down, make fun of you, mock you or even threaten you to lose your job. Those are people looking for Christ, and Christ is looking at you and say, obey me, and you will see miracles in you and in your life. So I am encouraging you. Don't look at the circumstances. Look at God who is so amazing, who loves everyone, and he will perform miracles like he performed miracles in my assassin life. When he left the office and he accepted Christ, I stood on the chair, I believe, for an hour thinking, it happened just in front of me. It happened in front of me.

Now, so when this happened, I mean, it is amazing. So he comes there to kill you. You start talking to him about Jesus, about your faith. And amazingly, he's listening. I mean, this is itself miraculous. Exactly. that he was willing to somehow let you keep talking. Yes, when he started to listen, he put the garden down, his shoulders relaxed, he nodded several times, and finally he accepted Christ. I didn't create this. The Holy Spirit worked in him.

Well, I mean, this is the classic divine appointment. I mean, how is it that this assassin was the one sent to kill you and that somehow he listens to what you, you say. God calls you to say these things. But, you know, Virginia, when you talk about, you're talking about loving your enemies. You're talking about the people that were abusing you physically in this interrogation room. And you reminded me of another famous Romanian, Richard Wormbrand. Yes. Richard Wormbrand, who I had the privilege to meet at the end of his life, was horribly

tortured by the communists. And he prayed for his torturers. He shared his faith with his interrogators and tortures. I mean, it's the kind of thing most Americans can't even dream about this type of thing. And at that time, Volbrand was never, never defended by any lawyers because every lawyers in Romania was afraid. And God created me strong and courageous. So don't, don't be afraid. There are so many stories in my book. You can find it at Virginia Pradhan Books.

I want to tell people, we have another. segment with Virginia, but the book is saving my assassin. It's truly unbelievable. Folks, the real Anthony Fauci movie. If you go to the real Anthony Fauci movie.com, just for the next few days, it's an exclusive offer for 10 days. You can see it for free. The real Anthony Fauci movie.com. In the first couple of minutes of the film, you'll understand why Robert F. Kennedy Jr. wrote the book, The Real Anthony Fauci, and why they've now turned into a documentary. It talks about the grotesque collusion, the horror of the collusion between big tech, big pharma, and big government, and why they do not want you to see this film.

I think as an American, you have an obligation to know what's going on, what's being done. So go to the real anthonyfouchi movie.com. The real anthonyfouchi movie.com. It is free. Are you tired of not getting a good night's sleep? Well, my friend, Mike Lendell has created the perfect solution. He didn't just. stop at the pillow. He also created the Giza dream bed sheets made from the world's best cotton called Giza. These sheets are ultra soft and breathable yet extremely durable. And now for a limited time, you can get 50% off the Giza Dream sheets with prices starting as low as 2998. These sheets come in a variety of sizes and colors and have a 60-day money back guarantee and a 10-year warranty. Take

advantage of this amazing offer. Go to mypillow.com and click on the radio podcast square and use promo code metaxis at checkout. You can also find deep discounts and all MyPillow products, including the MyPillow 2.0 mattress top or my pillow towel sets. Don't wait any longer to get the best sleep of your life. Take advantage of this amazing offer. Go to MyPillow.com and click on the radio podcast square and use promo code Eric at checkout. Don't wait any longer to get the best sleep of your life.

Call 800-978-3057 or go to MyPillow.com now and use promo code Eric. Tell me why Relief Factor is so successful at lowering. or eliminating pain. I'm often asked that question just the other night. I was asked that question, well, the owners of Relief Factor tell me they believe our bodies were designed to heal. That's right, designed to heal, and I agree with them. And the doctors who formulated Relief Factor for them selected the four best ingredients, yes, 100% drug-free ingredients, and each one of them helps your body deal with inflammation. Each of the four ingredients deals with inflammation from a different metabolic pathway. That's the point. So approaching from four different angles may be why so many people

find such wonderful relief. If you've got back pain, shoulder, neck, hip, knee, or foot pain from exercise or just getting older, you should order the three-week quick start discounted to only 1995 to see if it'll work for you. It has worked for about 70% of the half a million people who've tried it and have ordered more on one of them. Go to Relieffactor.com or call 800 for relief to find out about this offer. Feel the difference. Folks, I'm at the NRB in Orlando with the privilege of talking to Virginia Prodon, who has a story, honestly, Virginia, it's hard to believe because you know you hear stories like this, you watch movies, but to meet the person and to know you live this,

and there are many people living extraordinary stories. But I'm thrilled you put it in a book. Who persuaded you finally to put your story in a book? I believe God, because it's God. story in my life and also I believe because I'm responsible for next generation. When I will not be here, I want people to know how much I love them. When I wrote my book, I relieved every minute of my life in order for you to know and understand. If I'm taking the reader by hands and I walk with them in socialist and in my church, in my journey with God.

And I want you to know how powerful our God is and how horrible socialist is. You're, I keep saying this to people. I recently had as my guest, Yonmi Park, who escaped from North Korea. It's a similar thing. When you hear the first person's story that this person lived through this hell and they're trying to tell you, look, this is happening here if you don't wake up, You know, I say to all my audiences, it is vital that you read these books. So this book, obviously, your book is called Saving My Assassin.

But ladies and gentlemen, you cannot live in America at this point and be unaware of what we're facing. And if you read the stories of those who have gone through this before, you will realize they speak with authority because they have suffered this. They have lived this. And they're trying to warn you. And Virginia, this is what you do wherever you go. You're trying to get people to wake up and to train them to stand strongly in the faith, to stand strongly for freedom, not to be afraid. And I know you're being successful in this, so I'm just kind of thrilled that you're out there.

I'm so grateful that God opens the door for me to go to speak to pastor at summit events, to leaders, to speak in universities and universities. churches everywhere. And even in the places where people are not a little bit hostile, let's say. To me, sometimes you see them folding hands like this. They stand up and they said, ma'am, we don't want to build a socialist. We were never told the reality of socialists. You leave it.

It's like the veil goes down and they understand. And it's a powerful story. it's a powerful story for now. So I hope that people take to heart. There are so many, many stories in my book. And I hope you go to Virginia Pradan Books.com and buy it and read it for yourself and give it to others. Because every soul is looking for Christ.

Well, I just have to say we have a duty in America, folks. I wrote about it in my book, if you can keep it. To keep the Republic, you have to understand. these things. You cannot proceed along ignorant lines. If you do not realize how evil things can get under systems other than our own,

really, you become guilty because then you're inactive and you do nothing. So I want to say to people to push them to read your book, obviously they can get it anywhere, but we can go to Virginia Prodan, P-R-O-D-A-N. Virginia-Prodan Books.com. The title of the book is

is saving my assassin, which is a beautiful title. But, I mean, the idea is that you didn't just escape death. You led this man to eternal life. Yes, exactly, exactly. So the story doesn't end there. Years later, when I was in the United States of America, I learned English, I went back to law school. I opened my law firm one day in my law firm, and men show up, shows up.

And he started to tell me his story. I was ready to take his case. And all of a sudden, very frustrated, he looked at me and said, Virginia, don't you recognize me? And I thought, who is this man? And he showed me his security attorney ID. I thought that I relived that moment again. So this man, all these years later,

so even the fact that he was six foot 10 didn't tip you off, you still were fooled. You had no idea. This is kind of amazing. So you met him all these years. years later? All these years later, and he, for a minute, I relieved that moment. And then we started to share what God is doing in our lives. And I shared with him that I'm writing my book. And he asked me to let him write a chapter in my book. And today you can read his chapter in my book. So your would-be assassin

has a chapter in this book. You want to talk about a happy ending, folks? That's unbelievable. And I have to tell you my story, it's amazing, but when you read his chapter, when you read how the socialists in Romania bought him with free, free, free stuff and make him a monster, you can see the reality or what's going on in America. But also you can hear how God redeem him in my office from the minute that he accepted Christ. I mean, it's unbelievable. Now, are you... There is hope for us, for each one of us. You're still an attorney? Yes, I'm still an attorney.

You've done work with the Alliance Defending Freedom. I am working with Alliance Defending Freedom, and I'm speaking many times. Okay, because I know our next guest here today will be some folks from the Alliance defending Freedom. But, Virginia, I just want to say thank you again. This book, folks, please, please get a copy and read it. Your life will be changed when you understand what some people have been through. It's saving my assassin, Virginia, Pro Don. God bless you, my sister.

Thanks for being my guest. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. What are happening with. Folks, welcome back. I was going to say we're at the Alliance Defending Freedom. No. We're at the NRB with my guests right now from the Alliance Defending Freedom. you know, I'm a big fan of the Alliance Defending Freedom. They're heroes doing amazing work. I'll

let them tell you about it. But Lori Smith is here. She's the owner of 303 creative, and her attorney from ADF is Kelly Fedorick. And I want to hear this story because I've talked about ADF a lot on this program over the years. But the general idea is that our religious liberties are being attacked. And so you, Lori, you have a company called 303 creative. What do you do? I am a website and graphic designer specializing in custom, unique,

one-of-a-kind artwork. Right. Okay, so you basically, you're in Colorado, and I just saw Jack Phillips with a masterpiece cake shop a couple times. In Colorado, obviously, if you try to exercise your religious liberties,

They forgot that there's this thing called the Constitution, this kooky document called the Constitution. And so you, what is your case? What did you do or not do that somebody said, oh, this woman's trouble. We want to sue her. Well, seven years ago, I saw what was happening in the state of Colorado in the way the state was treating other people of faith. And as a custom graphic artist and website designer, I was concerned that, I could be censored and silenced because of my beliefs.

Not only that, but punished. And so I sought out some assistance from Alliance Defending Freedom and learned, yes, I could be punished for living consistently with my faith. So I decided to take a stand to protect not only my right to speak freely, but everyone's right to speak. So you were not challenged. You did this proactively. Yes, my case is a proactive case. No one should be, no one should have to wait to be punished before they challenge. and unjust law. Okay, so Kelly, you're the attorney in the picture here with ADF. How did this play

out for you? Well, so when Lori contacted us, we realized, yes, there is a real threat to her freedom of speech in Colorado based on the way the law is written, and they are currently censoring her and preventing her from speaking and creating art consistent with her beliefs. So we filed a little lawsuit. We sued Colorado, and we're now at the United States Supreme Court. So your goal was to get the law changed? No, what we're trying to do is ensure that Colorado applies the law consistent with the Constitution. Public accommodation laws and the First Amendment can and do coexist. They do so in most states across the country. Colorado, though, is misusing its law to censor her speech. So we've asked the U.S. Supreme Court to rule that free speech is for everyone. The government cannot force

someone to say something they don't believe. And we had argument in December and expect a decision any day now. Yeah, this shouldn't be controversial. This is what I always find. funny, but what's interesting to me is that we're living at a time where you have to fight for things that you would assume everyone would take for granted, it's basic, but because of the aggression of basically secularists who are also, they're fundamentally un-American. In other words, they don't subscribe to the two-and-a-half centuries of American law. They've decided that they can persecute whom they will, and they will get away with it,

if not for places like the Alliance defending freedom. I mean, that's just a fact. Well, and we're advocating for everyone, because people forget if the government has the power to censor you, it can censor anyone in this country, even for those who disagree with Lori and her beliefs. And so what's at stake is the right of all Americans to speak freely, and free speech is for everyone.

The promise of the First Amendment is that all of us should be able to pursue truth and then live our lives consistent with our beliefs. Well, it's extraordinary. What Jack Phillips went through, again, I've seen him here a couple of times, but it's the classic case of a here's a man who basically says, look, I have this faith, somebody comes to me expecting me. This is not like I'm going to sell you a hamburger.

This is I'm going to create something which is a celebration of your same-sex wedding. and he basically says, look, my faith says, like, I cannot do that. And somebody says, well, we're going to make you do that, and we're going to bully you into doing it. And that's where the Alliance of Fenham Freeman comes in at that point. And that's right. And Lori can speak more to this, but it's not about the message. I'm sorry, it's not about the person.

It's about the message that's being requested. Right. Well, but, I mean, logically speaking, I keep asking this question. It's kind of like somebody, if you go to a Muslim baker and you say, bake me a cake that says the Jews are the best. I mean, I would think in America that they would, even if I disagree with them, they have the right to say, I'm sorry, no, you have to go to another bakery. And you'd say, well, that's weird, but okay. But these kinds of cases seem to be directed at Christians.

In other words, it seems like that there's a genuine animus on the part of secularists in the, well, around the country, but particularly in the state of Colorado. and the government, that they sort of want to persecute Christian beliefs in particular. And I guess that's why this case comes up with Lori, who is here, because you fear that they're going to come after you. Well, that's right. And I think that the issue right now is that they're going after beliefs that the government doesn't like. They're trying to push people like Lori from the marketplace.

Right. What's dangerous about that is that cultural wins change. And the reason we have the First Amendment is to prevent the government from imposing its will and silencing speech doesn't like, because the shoe can be on the other foot for any of us. So all of us, all of our freedom of speech is at stake here. And I know Lori can speak to her perspective of that. Well, I would love you to do that, Lori. We just got a couple of minutes left, but please, you know, where do things stand now?

How do you feel about all this, this whole process? Well, I'm encouraged because I know that the First Amendment protects me. And I'm hopeful that the Supreme Court very soon any day now will have a decision will continue to protect our right to speak freely. Listen, I just want to create custom artwork that's consistent with what I believe, but I want that for everyone. I want that for the LGBT web designer.

I would want that for anyone, whether they agree with my views on marriage or not. Everyone should be free to live and work in alignment with what they believe without the government punishing us. So really, this is not just a win for myself in 303 creative. It's a win for each and every one of us.

Well, congratulations for being willing to do this, Lori Smith, owner of 303 creative, because we need people like you to do that. And thank you, ADF, and particularly you, Kelly, Fedorik. What's the website for ADF before we end here? ADFlegal.org. ADFlegal.org. This is very, very important,

and I'm just excited to hear that we still live in a country where something like ADF exists, and that folks like Lori, you are willing to stick your neck out and because you're fighting for all of us. So God bless you. Thank you both. Thank you so much. Folks, welcome back. Before we end the day, I wanted to get Pastor Jack Hibbs of Chino Hills, Calvary Chapel back here to talk about what you, Jack, you were, you were just mentioning this before you had to go. So let's go back. You were talking about something that you're launching.

Yes, so during the whole cancel period, we wound up putting in our resources and God put a great team together and we wound up launching or our launch dates May 28th that's Pentecost Sunday and it's 24-7-365 Christian programming. That's this Sunday. That's this Sunday. That's this Sunday.

They can go right now to real-lifenetwork.com subscribe for free and you'll get 24-7-365 Christian programming including the Eric Metaxa show, children's programming biblical prophecy type of teachings, children's content, and even some good old just moral character building stuff like Little House of the Prairie. Yeah. Like...

Great stuff. Ozzie and Harriet? You know, we joke around, but I watch Turner Classic movies all the time. I watch classic sitcoms. But Turner Classic movies, a lot of times you'll watch a film. The other day they had on Jezebel with Betty Davis and Henry Fonda. And, you know, they try to kind of portray it like, oh, it's transgressive, Jezebel, whatever. But at the end, it's a moral film.

Absolutely. And it's amazing to me how many films from that era have this profound moral ballast that when you watch them, you realize that that's right. Yes, that was wrong and that needs redemption or that needs that. person needs to be punished or that. It's so fascinating. So, true. So you're going to have some programming that is... Yeah, you would consider it's secular, but it's highly character building.

Like the Rifleman starring Chuck Connors? Will you have that? The Riflemen, I want to get that. No, the right? I'm not kidding. One day... Is that the guy that raised his son by himself? He is a widow?

I don't remember. Widow. Oh, yeah, of course it is. Chuck Conner. That's the one. Incredibly high moral standards. Listen, I remember... Why was I watching the Rifleman?

I was in California since I'm always on New York time. I'm waking up at, you know, 4 a.m. or something like that, right? And I turn the TV. There's an episode of The Rifleman starring Chuck Conner. So this is like 1961 or something like that. And it was such an unbelievably moral story. Don't tell a lie. Open the door.

About be a man. Be a man. Stand up to the bullet. Like, it was incredible. And I thought this was what we were teaching kids, you know. And so, anyway, okay, so tell me again, it's real life network. Real Life. RealLifenetwork.com. And you're telling me my show will be on there? You're on there. I'm already on there. You're already on there. You don't know. You have no idea, but you're on there.

I have no idea. Well, people can find you at jackhibs.com. I guess they can watch me to speak at your church next Wednesday, May 30th, 31st, sorry, May 31st next Wednesday, if they go to jackhibs.com. But what you were saying, I don't want to forget to get people in churches active politically. They need to go to real impact dot us. This is just

I've never heard that before when you just shared that with me that you guys got involved on that level that is the hope of America if people will get serious about that. It's our national outreach. Real impact

dot us. I'm just astonished but if it's kind of like I say to people like homeschool your kids You know, what can I do? What can I do? If you're in a church, go to realimpact.us. If your church will do this, we will change this country.

That is not hyperbole. So Jack Hibs, God bless you. Thanks for being my guest. God bless you. Folks, don't forget, we need you and everyone who listens to this program to go to Metaxus talk.com. We need your help. Christian Solidarity International is freeing slaves in Sudan. This is a real thing.

You can do something about it. Whatever you give will go to free a slave and set that person up in a life of freedom. The phone number is 888-253-3522. Please call 888-253-3522 or go to our website, metaxis talk.com. Whatever you can do, we appreciate it. God bless you for your generosity, but we need your help. 888-253-3522.