The Eric Metaxas Show - Vishal Mangalwadi (continued)

Episode Date: December 16, 2021

Vishal Mangalwadi continues his explanation of the groundbreaking concepts behind the "Third Education Revolution: From Home School To Church College."

Eric McTexis show with your host, Eric Mettaxas. Hey there, folks. Welcome to Hour 2. Hour 2 already. Hard to believe. By the way, if you don't get Hour 2, you can't hear me right now. And I'm very hurt. Albin, I want to tell the story of my trip to Florida. Okay, this is good, yeah.

Well, it's kind of crazy. Tucker Carlson has his studio in a very remote area of Florida. I think you can swim there from Havana. Swamp Land? It is really like it's impossible to get to. But I had the honor yesterday of appearing on his Fox Nation show. Over an hour, just kind of cabitzing, rambling, talking about history, politics, my...

Sharing recipes. Exactly. And we made a really beautiful boulea bass right there on the set. Yeah, it's a cooking show. actually a lot of people don't know that there's this thing called Fox Nation so they have these long-form things so he I hope will put part of our conversation on his regular Fox News Channel show to promote my book is atheism dead but we really had just a wonderful conversation he's an extraordinary person I have to say I'm just so grateful for his voice.

We got to talk off-camera a little bit about stuff. It was just fun to be there. But the most important thing of all is that by being in Florida, I was able to get some color in my face. It's hard to do in New York City with the skyscrapers and whatnot.

And the winter, the winter kind of gets in the way. But down in Florida, I said, okay, I've got to do an interview, get some color in my face, and go home. Mission accomplished. Yeah, they banned winter down there. So who...

I know. No, Desantis, man. He is killing it. He's a crazy man. He is killing it. Okay, we've got a couple things to talk about before we get back to Vichal Mangalwadi. By the way, did I pronounce that correctly? I think so, yeah. Vishal is a friend, and so I know his name.

Don't feel responsible for pronouncing it or spelling it. It won't be on the test. I'm just telling you. You've been a great class, and I just want to tell you that it won't be on the test. I want to talk before we get back to Vichal. about Christmas. If you have not done your Christmas shopping yet, I want to encourage you to go to mypillow.com and my store.com.

Mike Lindell has been a hero. You have no idea, folks, what he does behind the scenes and what he is still doing. He has been canceled. He has been thrown out of box stores. He's lost millions and millions of dollars. He is gambling his whole life on on the United States of America. I mean, I know behind the scenes, because I know him as a friend.

He is just saying, I care about truth. I care about this country. And if nobody else is going to fight, I'm going to fight. I'm going to do what I can. So we had him on here recently talking about some of the details. But it's more complicated than you can even get into. But I guess my point is it would mean a lot to me and to this show. If you would support him at mypillow.com,

there are any number of things you can buy for Christmas at Mypillow.com. And related to Mypillow.com, like on the right side, you can click on MyStore.com, or you can just go directly to MyStore.com. And you can get all of my books. Yes. And you can get a Bonhofer poster, all of that stuff. You've got to use the code, Eric. That's the key.

But I want to encourage you, since Christmas is here, as you know, this program, we've taken a huge hit by getting canceled from YouTube and a number of other things. that I can't talk about. But we could use your help. So if you are thinking of doing some Christmas shopping, why not go to Mypillow.com, use the code Eric. Go to my store.com. Use the code Eric. And my new book is Atheism Dead.

I see Albin that you have a copy there. I do. That book, and I want to show everybody something. Why don't you see on camera? No, because I noticed this. When I was in Billings Month, Montana, they had a bunch of these books for me to sign. And I said, hey, hey, that book's really shiny.

What's going on? And I realized that they kind of up their game. So it's like this kind of super shiny, cool-looking, you know. It's great. My twin brother's actually calling me now. It's like he doesn't know I'm actually doing a big show. Well, my parents called me when I was in the makeup chair earlier. It's tough when you're in show business.

People don't understand. They just don't understand, man. Okay, but is atheism dead? I think, you know, I feel, as most people know, I feel strongly about the books that I write, but I've never been more excited than I have about this book. And so let me recommend it to you folks as a Christmas gift. I really just think that there's stuff in here. I mean, I say this all the time and I mean it.

I would give this away for free to everybody I know just to say, if you read what is in this book, you almost won't believe it because we live in a weird time. I was just saying this to Dinesh D'Souza when I was on his program. We're living at a time where we're starting to get the idea that the authorities that we thought were not biased have been biased. They have refused to report on many things. They've refused to give us certain pieces of information and evidence. And the stuff that's in this book falls into that category.

It's absolutely crazy that we've lived in the secular culture as though it was reasonable. And then what? Once I looked in, I mean, I've looked into it over the years, but when I did the research on this book, I just said, this is crazy. One of the most. That nobody knows this stuff. One of the most amazing facts is they found Noah's Ark, and they knew it was Noah's Ark because they found Noah's charm bracelet. Absolutely not true. A thousand animals on that thing.

But if it were, that's very funny. But if it were true, imagine. All right. We got to. Okay, let's move on. Can you tell that the sun went to my, I was out in the sun too long? Can you tell? I'm a little woozy today.

By the way, if people want a lot of fun to see Mike Lendale in the flesh, as it were, Salem News Channel.com, the Christmas special from two years ago is on Salem Newschannel.com. But is that just today, Wednesday? No, it's on. It's on there all the time. They posted it there.

So you go down the list of it. Oh, yes. Oh, my gosh. Thank you for mentioning this. I was watching it again. Having a great time. Folks, listen carefully now. You don't want to mess this up.

I promise you, if you have not seen our Christmas special, I promise you, you will hardly believe your eyes. Go to Salem Newschannel.com. Folks, I don't ask much. Would you please do this? Would you go to SalemNewschannel.com? Please go to SalemNewschannel.com. Our show is on there, but the Christmas special, you won't believe it.

If you haven't seen it before, you won't believe it. Am I kidding? I get emails from people that they're like, when did you do this? That's right. This is a. Victoria Jackson's, it has stood the test of time. Let me tell you that. I'll tell you that right now.

It's stood the test of time. We should talk about CSI too before we go out. Okay. This is big. Yeah, actually we should. We today, finally somebody took us up on my offer that if anybody gives $10,000, it will be my honor to spend the evening with you. We'll find the time together in New York or whatever. have dinner together. Somebody today did that. I want to say thank you from the bottom of our hearts,

because this is such an extraordinary cause. CSI is freeing slaves in the southern Sudan. Just imagine that there are countries in the world today where slavery is a real thing, where they have Muslim radicals who believe in this. And this is allowed to happen. You, because of CSI, are able to free slaves, we want to say to you, please, folks, participate in this. It doesn't matter what you give, but you have to go to metaxistalk.com, metaxistock.com. We will give you any number of gifts. Everybody who gives anything, you give $10, you will get put into a drawing for three grand prizes.

You're going to get tons of signed books, hats, all kinds of stuff. Here's the phone number, by the way. 888-253-352.0.000. 888-253-352. Please give today. Before you forget about it, give today. Would you please? We're behind from last year.

I'm not sure why, but this is such an extraordinary opportunity. CSI, I mean, you talk about vetted. They are a great organization. Kevin McCullough's been on the program talking about them. 888-253-3522. 888-253-352. to whatever you give. We're just thrilled that we can partner with them.

This is a very important, important thing that we're doing. We want to remind you again, go to Salem Newschannel.com. You won't believe the Christmas special. I mean, you won't believe it. And email us. I read every single email. We can't respond, but I read every single email that comes in. We're at a time.

Back to Vishal. Mangalwadi. Hey folks, give the gift of memory for Christmas. Help your loved ones keep and improve their memory with Vivalour memory support. They can remember names and remain sharp. When her mother had dementia, Vivalour's founder prayed that God would show her the solution to memory loss through prayer, divine encounters, and her background. As a pharmacist, Susan Gibson created Vivalore Memory Support, a premium quality supplement with tons times more ingredients than other supplements. visit vivelore.com for testimonials.

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there's no better gift than keeping your precious memories. Vivalore.com, V-I-V-O-L-O-R.com. Bells will be ringing the sad, sad no. Hey there, folks. I've got the joy of continuing my conversation with Vishal Mongulwadi. If you can't spell that, I can't help you. But the book is the third education revolution,

homeschool to church college. Vishal, welcome back. Thank you. Thank you for having me again. We're talking about very important stuff, very deep stuff. And so before we really get to your solution, the proposal of this book, the Third Education Revolution, I just wanted to continue to clarify from my audience

what it is that broke down that led us to the strange pass in which we find ourselves. We were talking earlier about, the nature of truth. And you said something very interesting. I don't think I've ever heard it before. You said that the ancient Greeks, the classical Greeks, had this idea of logos. And of course, all truth is one. So even before Jesus, they had this intuitive sense that there's order in the universe, that it goes beyond what our brains are able to comprehend, that that. that all of the universe is somehow suffused with order, which is a biblical idea.

And you almost wonder, where did they get it if they didn't get it by revelation? Because it's an interesting concept. Would Aristotle argue that you can find your way to that idea through reason? See, Socrates began to question the myths which Athenian culture believed in. Now, he wanted to replace myth with reason. that we shouldn't believe the legend stories that priests tell we should believe what is truth. How do we know truth? This is what Plato and Aristotle are struggling with.

And Aristotle concludes that truth has to do with logic. Here are the rules of logic. Whatever is logical is true. But why should logic be connected to truth? Why does truth have to be logical? Okay, so another way of asking the question is, Whenever I hear somebody say, it is amazing that the language of mathematics can be used to describe the physical laws of the universe. If you really think about it and understand it, it is astonishing that that's true.

Basically, what you just said about logic, it's the same thing, isn't it? In other words, they're asking a question, why would our brains be able to use logic to apprehend reality? Why is there a connection between our ability to apprehend reality and reality, whether it's using logic or math, which are kind of both parts of the same thing? Yes. So Thales had already begun, Thales in Greece, to postulate the idea of Logos, but Plato and Aristotle make it concrete that there has to be a realm of ideas. this world is a shadow of that world of reason, logic, ideas. So that's the real world, and we are reflection, shadows of that real world. Okay, now, again, I have to interrupt constantly,

but it seems to me that that's wrong. In other words, that's a dualistic Greek idea that does not correspond to the biblical idea. Yes, except that the Proverbs had already been teaching that, yes, indeed, in the beginning was wisdom. Wisdom was with God, and with his wisdom, God created the world. And then he made us in his image with the same kind of rationality. So Augustine picked up on this that the mind is made in God's image. Not that we have two eyes, two hands, that is God's image. but human mind is in God's image.

Therefore, to be godly, we have to cultivate our mind. That is what made the Western civilization built upon Augustine's curriculum of education, which included math, etc., revised a few times, but particularly from Charlemant's time, 9th century, Augustine's curriculum became the curriculum on which all of the European, Western European intellectuals were educated, including Luther and Calvin. So this assumption that the human mind is made in God's image because we are created to be his children to communicate with him, language is not something that evolved by accident in the

jungles of Africa, but human beings were made in, and language is logical arrangements of words. So this concept that words can communicate truth, he's the word, his truth, he incarnated. Now, Greeks had to give this up because they didn't know what Logos says, where does it live, where does it come from? So there was already a skepticism amongst Aristotle's followers, but it was Pyrro who goes to India, meets with Buddha. monks who demolish the Greek confidence and reason that the human mind cannot know truth, you have to have mystical experience. Did you say that it was Alexander the Great's armies that went to India? Yes, but Alexander, because he was trained as a philosopher king, he traveled with philosophers,

and the most important philosopher was Piero, who spent 18 months with the Buddhist. So what Pyro began is what David Hume began in European Enlightenment, because Hume was also impacted by Buddhism, and that climaxed with Nietzsche. So from Hume to Nietzsche, the European Enlightenment already came to the conclusion that if there is no God in the beginning, there is no reason in the beginning, There is thoughts are products of brain chemistry, flesh and blood. So that's why Freud becomes significant factor in then Carl Jung, but that's going too far. Okay, but wait, so what you're saying, though, is that all of this ultimately leads to what we would call strict materialism.

The idea that we have a brain, but we do not have a mind. We have material, but once the material ceases to exist, there's nothing transcendent, which leads to the secular ideas of Dewey and the ideas that we're living with today, basically. That's, I guess, where we're going. Exactly. So God is dead, self is dead, soul is dead, truth is dead, logic is dead, man is dead. You are only an artificial construct. your parents told you that you are a male, therefore you think you are a male. And you can be deconstructed and reconstructed as a female.

So there is no real self, which is where the European Enlightenment has ended at the same point where Greek rationalism had ended and where Hindu ideas had ended with nihilism of Buddha. So your suggestion, I guess, that the thesis of the book, the Third Education Revolution, homeschool to church college, is that things have gotten so bad that we can now see the horrific fruit of these ideas being played out in innumerable ways, very destructive, even to people that wouldn't have known a few years ago. We can now all see where this goes. And you're suggesting in this book with David Marshall, and others, that the church, and we can talk about what you mean by that,

needs to get in the business of education because apart from God, we are now clearly perfectly lost. That's absolutely correct. So the church created education. The first education revolution was what began in Carolingian Renaissance with Charlemagne. Second education revolution is what begins with Luther's letter to Christian nobility in 1520. But that is what has now come to an utter chaos and confusion and darkness. So a third education revolution is needed where the church takes education back,

not just in terms of organization, but in terms of worldview, presuppositions, that truth is a matter of spirit. God is there, he has commanded, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal. These are his words. These are not products of culture or artificial human constructs. These are divine laws. And so in a funny way to get back to what Jefferson was saying in the Declaration, when he says, we hold these truths to be self-evident.

Nonetheless, you and I would argue that even though maybe we can't get there through reason, because we're made in God's image, these truths are, in fact, somehow self-evident. Yes, they touch on the cords of our strings of our heart. But, say, Marx and Nietzsche had both realized that if this is not God's, word, then Marx said the religion is opium that the elite administered to the masses to control them. Nietzsche said, no. These are ideas that slaves in women, Jews were slaves in Egypt, Christians were slaves in the Rome. Let's hit pause. We'll be right back, folks. The book is the third education revolution. I'm talking to Vishal Mangalwadi. Don't go away. In case you haven't

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What is this idea? In other words, for people who have been tracking our conversation, we realize that things are so bad that we have to go back to the beginning. We have to correct. We have to restore what was broken. And some of these ideas have been broken drifting in fragments through the centuries. We now can see this. So how do we go back?

Well, the website is called third education revolution.com without the article, the third education revolution.com. It is a movement. There are about 180 of us who pray on Wednesdays. Now, normally about 40 to 50 people are able to come because of the daylight saving times, Indians, Indonesians, Koreans can't join. But the movement is spreading. I first published a concept in 2009 in a book called Truth and Transformation by WIWAM publishing. And that triggered the movement in Indonesia.

So Indonesians were the first who started this in 2010. But in 2019, 30,000 Pentecostal churches in Uganda decided they wanted to turn every church into a center of hybrid education. So that galvanized the movement. We met in Phoenix in 2019, in South Korea in 2020. And that's why we branded ourselves. kingdom education fellowship. Out of that has come this book written by 30 of us. So it is a movement, and we meet every Wednesday at noon, Eastern Time.

And you can get the link. So we are now, I've just come back from Brazil, where we have the church, the university, and the government backing this. Last month, October, our team went to Kenya, Uganda, and Nigeria. Particularly Uganda is most interesting because from the first lady who is the Minister of Education, so we have the government, the church and the universities, six or seven universities in Uganda, that are coming behind. In America, there is Virtuescampus.com, Virtuescampus.com that began in 2015.

which is actually implementing some of the ideas. And in the next few months, we will have four or five campuses. Church has turned into educational campus. Tell us this website again that you just mentioned in America. Virtuescampus.com. Virtues. Virtues. Yeah.

V-I-R-T-U-E-S. Virtuescampus.com. So every church should become a virtues campus. which is mentoring students. And actually the prayer... I want to be clear, though, is it virtues or virtuous? What's the first word? Virtues.

Virtues. Virtues. Yes. Plural of Virtue. Okay. Virtuescampus.com, if people are interested in the United States. So how do you see this manifesting itself? In other words, I'm not surprised to think that places we would think of as third world countries would be the first ones to get this.

because they have not been as polluted by Western secularist ideas. They're more open to spiritual things. They can think more out of the box more easily. Many of us in the West, in the U.S., we're really trapped. Many Christians are trapped by some kind of false idea of fidelity to these institutions, whether it's the Ivy League or the Academy in general. you don't have that as much in these other countries. I guess that's the good news.

Yes, that is the good news because in India, the government has recognized that the public education is complete failure, much worse than what's happening in America. Therefore, the government is talking about privatizing education. Uganda, almost 40% of the schools are now paralyzed, thanks to COVID and financial problems. So that's true that you still have in America several problems. Some of them are theological problems.

The church thinks that these are all good signs that the Antichrist is now coming, things are getting from bad to worse. This is good problem. But there's also extreme individualism. that to fulfill the Great Commission doesn't mean to disciple the nation, marinating the nation in truth of the triune God, but saving individual souls. So you have many theological problems in the West besides a laziness that this is a state's job to disciple the nation, to educate the nation. This is not church's job. Our job is to take souls to heaven.

I actually, I see that as less the problem. What you've just described, I mean, of course it's a problem. But I think of even many Christian universities, so-called Christian universities in America, themselves have opened the door to woke madness, to ideas of social justice. And they don't seem to see the problem. In other words, to me, it has to be the customer. It has to be the parents and individual churches that reject what they're getting at many of these so-called or formerly Christian universities. We're talking to Vishal-Mungalwati.

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Hey there, folks. It's the Eric Mattaxas show, and I'm talking to Vishal Mongolwati. The new book is the third education revolution, home school to church college. So Vishal, really, I mean, there are many things at play here. The basic idea, I completely agree with you. But practically speaking, we still have many people who seem to think that, you know, getting a good degree from some good college is working. something, which I would say at this point, it's virtually worthless. But you also have many Christians, many evangelicals sending their kids to places like Wheaton or whatever, really unaware that those places themselves have bought into these bad ideas. The very places that were established as a bulwark against, you know, the fallen Ivy League schools from 100 years ago, those places themselves have taken on some of these culturally Marxist, secularist ideas? Exactly. So a whole new education ecosystem has to be created.

And part of the third education revolution is to create a new online encyclopedia, online dictionary. So if we, where the editors are those who have a biblical worldview of what is truth, what is morality, what is good and what is evil. So if you have Christian legal fraternity creating entire curriculum of law, which at the moment calling CollegePedia, and all the knowledge is organized for students, schools and colleges, all the medical fraternity from around the world

creating a complete medical encyclopedia. So that, likewise, business and education, politics and philosophy. So the problem that you were describing in the previous segment is exactly the problem that Luther was facing, that the church at that point in the Middle Ages controlled the university, and the university was the problem. So Luther was saying that to reform Europe, the first need is to reform the church, Second need is to reform the university. And because he was a university professor, he wrote extensively on how to reform the university,

out of which came John Amos, Comanius and the University of Halle. As Wittenberg was closed down, the Halle became the first modern university. It is still called Martin Luther University of Hale, Wittenberg and Hale. So this is a third education. Revolution where professors at William College and other evangelical university need to be challenged as much as the secular universities, because what these professors are seeking to do is win respect of the peers. Jesus is saying to be careful of the yeast of Pharisees and saddacies, but evangelical professors in evangelical colleges are really embracing the yeast.

of the Pharisees and Cereses, the very ideas that are destroying Western civilization. Well, unfortunately, I'm not surprised to hear that. The question is how to deal with it. And I guess you're talking about trying to find people who are still willing to think for themselves. But when you're dealing with institutions and social credit, it strikes me that it's very difficult.

that we're living in such divided times. I'm just not sure how this works itself out. Well, actually, it's not very difficult. Just four weeks ago, I was in Brazil. A university, Uni-Sessibar, has 320,000 students. Next year, due to mergers, they will have 700,000 students. So when we were there, the university was educating through 933 hubs. The university is owned by devout Presbyterians, but it is giving secular education through secular hubs.

Now, imagine if 10,000 churches became the hubs where the curriculum is going through the university, but it doesn't have to be just the professors of the same university, a curriculum created by the world's best subject matter experts going online. students coming in churches mentored by academic pastors. So many of these evangelical universities that do not want to get out of their current pot, they will self-destruct. Because we can actually teach law in churches for $100 a year, the tuition cost.

We can have the tuition cost of medical theory for $100. a year because there is plenty of expertise available where it medical doctor who has worked and taught for 30 40 years can put his content online churches can have 10 students coming and studying medical theory and paying just $100 I mean there will be additional costs but for the tuition itself so we can actually destroy and part of my understanding of the great commission is that nations have to be destroyed like pottery. And American culture has come to that point

where you will, with an Antept, dash them to pieces like pottery. So if this education system has become diabolical, it deserves to be destroyed, which is Jeremiah's call to destroy and build, uproof and planet. Obviously, I guess you'll find me a great, with you. The only thing is the reality is when you're dealing, for example, with somebody who says, well, I'd like to become a doctor, they immediately bump up against accreditation,

they bump up against where can I get a job. In other words, on a human level, all of this makes sense. But in the broken, satanically influenced world in which we live, you realize that if you say, I want to become a doctor and I have these courses, this is the problem. It's the problem with the American Psychiatric Association. We have these institutions that are making it impossible. One law college can educate 100,000 students if the students are actually meeting in the church. One medical university can educate a million students if all the theories are happening in local church and

practicals are happening in local hospitals. Students go to the university, so they will be enrolled in the university and they will go to the university to learn things which cannot be taught in local hospitals or in theory online. We have to go to another

break here. I will... I want you to continue these thoughts. We'll be right back folks talking to Vishal Mangalwati. The third education revolution is the book. Hey folks, welcome back. I'm talking in our final segment now with Vishal Mangalwati. Vichel is V-I-S-H-A-L. The book is the Third Education Revolution. It comes festooned with encomia from people like my friends, Dr. Che-On, Greg Denham, who I was just with in San Marcos, California. Gordon Robertson, you know, is the president of CB. and many, many others, too many really to mention.

But I say this only to let people know that this is a serious and large undertaking. So people who are listening to this, Vishal, I think there are many people resonating with it, but they want to know more, apart from buying the book, the Third Education Revolution, Where can they go? How can they get involved in this? Okay. So we're just launching a campus in Brave Church, Englewood, Colorado. Students will enroll in Colorado Christian University, but will go to the local church in Brave Church Englewood, where Robert Rhine, who has given up his business to become an academic pastor, he will be mentoring them. In New Jersey, Pastor Josuazzo, who is senior pastor of Emmanuel Baptist Church, he will give up his senior pastorship to become an academic pastor.

Students will enroll in a Christian college in Minnesota. It's Crown College. In Iowa, there is a university. So students will enroll in university, but go to the local church for taking the classes. courses will come online, and soon we will get to a point that the subject matter experts will cooperate in creating the world's best curriculum, making it available to universities to educate students in the local churches, which is like home. Home school, except that it is in the church where an academic pastor, whose youth pastor version 2.0, they are mentoring the students. students. But this will also be for children because homeschooling is possible for parents where one parent can sustain the family, but where there is only one parent who has to earn bread and butter or both parents have to work. Children can go to the church, not necessarily in the sanctuary building, but under the church where academic pastors are taking online curriculum,

which means education comes down. We have a partner Western Academy here in California that will give K-12 education for $2,400 a year, a high school student, but soon we will be having completely free curriculum K-12 made available to everyone. So people can use it in mosques, in Hindu temples, or Buddhists, wherever in their homes.

But we are encouraging churches to disciple the next generation. If 100,000 churches in America took 15 students under one pastor, that's 1.5 million students. In second year, 3 million students. In a four-year program, American church can be discipling 4 to 6 million students every day. So technology has made it possible for one iconic, to teach math to millions of people. You don't need a math teacher. You don't need a physics teacher, et cetera.

So the cost of education can be really brought so low, that education can once again become priesthood and kingship of all believers. Right now, Christian education has become a priesthood of rich believers. You have to have the capacity to get into debt of 50,000. $50,000. Right. And in many of those cases, you're not getting good stuff anyway. What's the website, third education revolution.com?

Yes, correct. Thirdeducationrevolution.com. We're out of time, Vishel Mungalwati. A joy to speak with you, folks. Check it out, third education revolution.com. Vishel, thank you.