What Political Polarization Means for America | Olivia Reingold
00:09Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show.We'll get you from point A to point B.But if you're looking for point C, well, buddy, you're on your own.But if you'll wait right here in just about two minutes,the bus to point C will be coming right by.And now here's your Ralph Cramden of the airways, Eric Mattaxas.Hello there.Welcome to Socrates in the city.
00:37Today, I am in the city of New York.I'm usually in the city of New York.And today my guest is Olivia Rheingold.She's a staff writer at the Free Press.She got her start in public radio.And she's writing a lot right nowabout the current mayoral election here in New York City.And we look forward to talking about that
01:01and other things.Olivia, so great to have you.Thanks for having me.I really, I want to talk to you about so much.so we'll try to get it in here.First of all, when I reference the mayoral election,I'm staggered in a way, perhaps I shouldn't be,but staggered to think that somebody who is openly and explicitly a socialist
01:29has been leading in the polls and won the Democratic election.And my first question, and this one is tough,how do you pronounce his name?So over on Mom Donnie, he says in interviews that it has a soft age,and I've been thinking about that a lot.I'm like, so I don't know how to do the soft age.I need to ask him if he would only just give me a call back.Actually, actually, I'm only pretending to care.
01:56In all seriousness, he, I mean, we have to frame this because not everybody's up on this,but we just in New York had the primary, the Democratic primary.Right.And many people, myself included, were shocked that he won.Now, I've been saying, Mamdani, I heard you earlier, reference him by his first name.Yeah, Zoron.Zoran.Has somebody made the decision that we're going to go with Zoran?
02:29Well, it's how, I think, a lot of people reference him.It's almost as if it's like Obama.where people just said Obama.You just say Zoron.And everybody says Hillary, which is weird.Yeah, that's true.That's true.You mean Clinton.
02:45There is inconsistency, but it's also his slogan, or on his signs.It's not really a slogan, but it's Zoron for NYC.So it's kind of how he presents himself to.Okay.Right on.Well, so we got that out of the way.I think we're done.That was my only, the only thing that I really don't have.
03:03No, it's, okay, so, but we have to talk about the factor I want to talk about the fact that he has put himself out there as a socialist.And before we get to him and what's happening in New York right now,I just want to define our terms.And maybe you can help me with this because people say socialism,people say communism, people use terms.And I find that often we don't know what we mean when we use those terms.your sense of what socialism actually is since you've been reporting on him?
03:42Well, I just had to submit a request for comment to Zoron because I have a lot of questionsabout what he means when he calls himself a socialist. But socialism, there's an aversion to privateproperty. So it's all about boosting the working class. Hold on. That's big. What?An aversion? Yes, yes, it is big. Like that, to me, that's kind.But it's not full-blown communism.Because so communism is, I think you could argue the most, no, it is.It is the most extreme form of socialism, but it's a kind of socialism in which...I think anarchy is the most extreme form of socialism.
04:25It's, no, because anarchy, I think, is more individualist.I'm just kidding.Just kidding.I know you were.I know you were.That's where libertarianism, like, meets.It's like at some point, you know.Okay, but seriously, so when you just say that,
04:37I'm genuinely surprised.In other words, socialism, is there a line between socialism and communism?What would the line be?There's some private property in socialism.How nice.But the major industries, the means of production are owned by the state in socialism.See, even the term means of production.It's pretty radical sounding, but it's just the way they, it's just the standard language.
05:04But I'm saying if I were, you know, a socialism.The one thing I would say to my team, listen, whatever you do, we don't use terms like means of production.How to make it more normal.I'm going to make it more normal.So I guess just industries, industries.But they say that.Means of production.That's fascinating.
05:25Yeah, it does kind of send a shiver down my spine.Well, so when you say that, though, what it makes me think, I wasn't expecting to think this, but that what we're in fact talking about,is communism light. In other words, I would ordinarily see socialism as not quite, but that's prettyheavy. In aversion to private property. I'm guessing, and I'm curious what you think. But my guess would bethat if somebody is a communist, they understand that's not going to fly. So I'll say I'm a socialist.That's what it sounds like. It sounds like given the power, somebody like Zoran would pulltoward actual communism, but he understands he can't say that.in at this point well one of the questions so yeah i just submitted a request for a comment because
06:14i just finished going through 16 000 of his tweets i read every single one of them um going back tolike 2012 or something and i happened to find this old instagram he used to have that no one seems tohave figured out yet.And the profile picture is not of him.It's actually of Lil Wayne, and it's of Lil Wayne wearing a t-shirt that sayscommunist, and him, you know, advertising the word communist.You probably don't know this because you're young, but Carl Marx had a little WayneT-shirt.
06:52So it's kind of a throwback.Oh, okay.It's a very, very clever.Wow, that's meta.It's an inside joke between Lil Wayne and, yeah, Chrome Wars.Obviously now, so in all seriousness, he was like at some point...I wanted to know, that's what I asked them today.I said, did you ever identify as a communist?
07:08I assume it's a joke, but with every joke, there is a hint of truth.And so anyway, but that's one of the only markers I found that I have no reporting or, you know, on whether or not...It doesn't seem like he's a communist to me, but I did ask him that.So, but what does he believe in?So going through this expedition of his tweets, he is pretty critical of the markets and does believe that often the government needs to intervene to ensure a basic standard of living.Like access to health care, it's unclear to me if he believes in the concept of rent.Excuse me, we have to pause while I take that in.That's a big deal.
08:01That's a big deal.What do you mean the concept of, I've never in my life thought of rent as a concept?Like, what do you mean?Right.Well, because during COVID, when there was a lot of pressure on governors across the country to cancel rent, to freeze the rent.But anyway, I couldn't tell the way he was applying it sometimes.I think he was trying to cancel rent, like cancel rent, period.Like, there should not be any rent.
08:36So I have questions about that.What I do know for certain and what is also reflected in the plans he's put forward in his mayoral campaign,which he is expected to totally win, by the way, is he wants to build a lot more public housing.He thinks that the government, he basically thinks you have a right to government housing.And it's unclear to me if that means free housing.Well, abolishing rent or canceling rent to me sounds like theft.In other words, you're a landlord.You have a space.
09:15You earned it.You paid for it.Your father earned it.Your mother earned it.You now own it.And you're renting it out.And somebody says,No, it's ours now, and we're going to decide.
09:26You know, that just feels like flat-out theft.And so it's fascinating how terms, you know, can define things when you say, well, we're going to cancel rent.And you say, what does that mean?You mean, you're going to steal the income that I get from charging for rent.But it sounds so attractive to anybody paying rent.I pay rent.So it's like, that sounds so wonderful.And that gets to, I think, the appeal of candidates like that, like that, they're,
09:54they're selling you something. And the real question, of course, is can they deliver?Folks, just to remind you, the flooding in central Texas has taken over 100 lives. Many people stillmissing. We on this program are asking you to join us in Food for the Poor as we rush emergencyrelief to devastated families. Please call 844-863-4673 or text Metaxus to 51555.to give right now, or you can click on the banner, metaxustalk.com. Thank you.A major retail chain just canceled a massive order leaving my pillow with an overstockof the classic my pillows, and this is your gain, because for a limited time, my pillow is offeringtheir entire classic collection at true wholesale prices. Get a standard my pillow for just 1798.
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11:29supplies last. Folks, right now in Texas, families are reeling from this historic flooding. Food forthe poor is delivering life-saving relief, but they need our help. I'm Eric Metaxus. Call 844-863-4673 or textMetaxus to 51555 to send emergency supplies or visit Metaxus talk.com.com.click on the banner, metaxis talk.com. Thank you.I want to go to back to the difference between socialism and communism.It hasn't been in America really, you know, since the Cold War, it hasn't been possible to talk in any positive sense about communism.Socialism, though, it always feels to me like it's there somehow.What do you suppose it is in this cultural moment that makes it possible for somebody like Mandani to talk about it so openly?
12:41Interesting.So as you were talking about all the free promises, I think that that's like a classic analysis of Zoron's support.Well, of course people like him.He's promising all this free stuff.But it's actually, I think, a lot, a meaningful portion of his supporters, it's more because it's per,aggressive. He's kind of delivering a sense of justice. I think that there's this real sense ofaggrievement among Gen Z and millennials in the city that something is not right. Why am I basically awhite-collar worker? Why have I worked so hard for this elite exclusive job? Maybe some of these
13:27people, they went to great colleges, and why am I not on a home ownership?track and the landlord is the enemy. So it's not necessarily like, I want free rent so badly.It's more like a FU. There's kind of an underlying sense of anger, which is such an interestingpart of Zoron, is that like the tone of it is often quite different than a Trump rallyin terms of how Trump speaks. But there is a lot of similarity. What is not different from a TrumpValley. The only thing that's not different from a Trump rally is a Trump rally. But I know what you mean.Keep going. Keep going. Forgive me.Oh, no, no, no, no. Where Trump is, often he's outwardly, he's peeved about something.
14:20It's an outward attack. He kind of names and shames enemies. Sure. And Zoron is doing that, butin a really subtle way where it's really positive.Like it's the kind of environment where it's like,high fives, guys.Like, it's, I think what you would call toxic positivity.But Zoron, he has a huge smile that he's known for.And for example, I just watched this clip.CNN recently asked him, one of their anchors just said,
14:57do you like capitalism?and he kind of like, you know, recoiled.But he was like, no.Like the smile was huge.He was like, no, no, I don't like capitalism.So he's delivering everything with a smile.Sorry, I can't even remember what you asked me.There was no question.
15:19Actually, there's so much here,but I think I'm old enough amazingly,despite my youthful appearance.to remember the mayoralty of Lindsay in New York City.When I was a little kid living in New York City,the attractive, progressive, liberal at the time was called mayor was John Lindsay.And he, there's a very similar dynamic because he promised what any young, good-looking candidate promises.They promise hope and youth.
15:55And, you know, you get that from JFK and all.RFK, and it's hard not to be swayed by that.I mean, it's normal human beings are swayed by that.But of course, in the end, the question is, what do they deliver?Right.And Lindsay delivered what, for your average New Yorker,turned out to be like a nightmare.I mean, you know, people were routinely mugged, assaulted.
16:24by the time you get out of the 1970s, like New York is bankrupt,and people fled the city.And so I wonder, I just have to ask the question now, really,it's a rhetorical question,but whether all of the young people that are attracted to this candidate,10 years from now, will they still be in the city,or will they have fled to the suburbs like some?many people did, you know, back when. I mean, that's ultimately the question. Do you, as you
17:04cover him, do you, I heard you talking earlier about the different coalitions. Talk about that,about who has been attracted to his message. Yeah. So I think that the caricature of a Zoronvoter, which is true. This definitely is a meaningful portion of his base. I guess you would call ithis base. Is a college educated, often these are elite schools, a lot of his campaign staff went toYale, but college educated probably makes somewhere between $100 to $150,000 a year, lives in what'scalled the Kami Corridor, which stretches from Queens into Williamsburg, Greenpoint,parts of Brooklyn.Did you say the commie corridor?
17:53The commie corridor.That is very funny.That's what the insiders call it.But, yeah, so they probably live in Queens, Brooklyn, parts of Manhattan.There are even Zoran supporters on Staten Island.I think there are maybe...Now you're just making stuff over.No, that is real.
18:12That is real.And so, yeah, I guess that gets at my second point, which is that's the caricature, is the yuppie.The progressive yuppie.But his coalition is actually really impressive,and it includes a lot of immigrant communities,especially Muslim immigrants, and South Asian immigrants, too.And then, like I said, you know, he has supporters in basically every type of communityin every borough.
18:43He even has supporters on Staten Island.You said that before, and I still don't believe you.Obviously, Cuomo once.Staten Island, but he did get, I think it was at least 10,000 votes.Well, I mean, I think we have to say the most obvious thing.He's a very good politician, and that's a big part of politics, fortunately or unfortunately.He let's, I mean, at the heart of everything, of course, he's tapped into something.when we're thinking about young people, for example,
19:21you know, if you express the ideathat there are some people who are really, really strugglingand we should help them, we live in a culture in America, thank God,where people care about the poor,they care about people who are struggling.And so you're tapping into something that really is there.Right.Why do you suppose he has been able to do that more effectively
19:45than Adams or Cuomo.I think because he speaks in kind of familiar terms.And so I think he is, I think the BLM movement never left us.I think that this is just the latest iteration of that.And I think that those yuppies that I was describing,like all of those people are, I don't,maybe this will make sense to you.All of those people, I think, posted a black square on Instagram during Black Lives Matter.
20:20You can figure that out if you didn't know that already.And, of course, the BLM movement was only Occupy Wall Street, you know, in another guy.There is a simmering resentment that tends to express itself, you know, in various ways.So he's kind of just riding this familiar wave, you know, these young people who areprimed by BLM.But I think what you were saying about progressivism,like we want to help people who are disadvantaged,that's really interesting and I think speaks true to Zoron
20:59because often what he says, it does sound excellent.Like his answer on Israel, for example,is he won't say whether or not Israel has a right to existor as a Jewish state.The answer he's figured out is, yes, I believe Israel has a right to exist as a state where all people have equal rights and there's justice for all.Like something like that where the implication is obviously that there's apartheid, genocide, whatever.But it sounds like, oh, well, why wouldn't you want to have a state where everyone is treated equally?And so there's a lot kind of riding underneath it where when he's talking about disadvantaged communities or say, freeze the rent.
21:55Well, in New York City, not everyone is like a corporate giant behemoth of a landlord.There are small property owners, you know.There are immigrants.There are black and brown New Yorkers who own property.and they don't want to see a rent freeze.So I think a lot of his language sounds inclusive,but then when you kind of peel it back,there's actually a lot of exclusion baked in there.
22:26Yeah.Well, without a doubt, he's promising things.I mean, if I had to analyze it,I would say that Adams and Cuomo were taken by surprise.that they were not aware of the fact that a young, good-looking,well-spoken candidate, multi-ethnic somehow candidate,could ride in and somehow steal all the oxygen.I don't even know what to say to that
23:07because a lot of people, they do still try to talk to me about Cuomo,Eric Adams, sometimes Curtis Lewa, who's the Republican,who will obviously,get some voters, but it doesn't matter what they're up to.Like, they, we have maybe three months and some change until Election Day.It's really hard to imagine how they could ever take Mom Donnie down.I mean, first of all, all three of them, the three challengers to Mom Donnie are in the race.all of them are kind of refusing to get out.
23:50And so anyone, any anti-Momodony sentiment is going to be split among three candidates.Clearly.But there's also, like, what strategy, what, like, if you think of the 20, let's see, like, if you think of a 2016-type Republican, is there any, is there anything that you can do?to make an establishment Republican appealingwhen you compare it them to Trump?Yeah.No.So you can't, you can't, like,
24:27Mom Dani is doing something entirely new here.Right.And I think he is setting a national standardwhere basically anyone who is challenged by a mom-dani type,if they really are compelling like he is,like there's, if every establishment Democratis challenged by a mom-dani type,Donnie-type candidate, like, they will topple.
24:51Like, the establishment is over.I think that's the headline that the Republican establishmentand the Democratic establishment are dead.Yeah, totally.And I think I can opine in saying that I think they deserve to die.I don't think, and I always find it comical when you hear Democrats talking aboutwe need a better message or we need to, and you think, we're talking about, we'retalking about truth, we're not talking about like scheming, what message can we put over on voters.
25:23The question is, do you understand the problems?Right.And do you have answers and can communicate those answers or those purported answers?And for sure, that's what's fascinating here is that whether you're thinking about Joe Biden or you're thinking about Cuomo.Right.It's like, you know, meeny, meekle, Eupherson, I'm quoting, the, you.handwriting is, you know, on the wall.It's like you've been weighed in the pen.
25:50What was that?No one knows.No, that's the famous story of, you know, Nebuchadnezzar or Belchazar, you know, that you'vebeen weighed in the balance and found wanting.And basically, I think your average voter in New York or even across the country, they lookat a Cuomo.And I just think probably they sense.that they have ridden this for enough decades to know there's nothing here.
26:24Yeah.But I think the same thing is true on the Republican side.And so, in a sense, we have two radically different kinds of options.We have Mamdami open socialist, and then you have MAGA, whatever you want to call them,you know, conservatives on the right.It seems like that's what this looks like has that happened here.No, no, totally.I think for a long time after Democrats lost repeated election cycles,
26:58they often would say it's because we didn't go far left enough.And then there was the pushback, which was like, that's ridiculous.You guys are cuckoo.You need to be more moderate.Well, I think what we're learning is actually they were right.Yeah.The appetite actually is for a more far-left candidate.When you look at polling nationally, I see it, I see the math going on,
27:24but when you look at polling nationally, there's like a majority of Democrats want the leadership to topple.They want change.And when you look at AOC and Bernie, they went on this fighting oligarchy tour where they traveled nationally.I went to one of their events in Pennsylvania.And they brought out, like, thousands of people.And some of these events were held in red counties.And so I think that there is a real appetite here for a bigger social safety net,higher minimum wage, like more regulation of companies.
28:07I mean, look at Luigi Mangione.Like, look at the response to that.No, actually, I'm not familiar with the Luigi Mangione story.What do you mean?Really?The assassin, or sorry, alleged killer of the United Healthcare CEO.Oh, I'm sorry.Of course.
28:21Yes, I figured.Who can forget Luigi.Yeah, Luigi.Yeah.But look at the response that that got.Yeah.And so I think that Zoron speaks to that.There's a lot of overlap there.
28:35Like the person who would be angry about Luigi Mangione and is taken in by Zohon's ideas.Well, you know, when you were just.talking about how we typically hear, and we did, even in the 2024 loss, that some Democratswill say we didn't, we needed to double down on the radical leftism, and then you had otherssay, no, enough of that. You know, Carvel and company would be, you know, we've had enough ofthis transgender, whatever, shut up about that, let's just talk about jobs, let's say, okay,so you hear this over and over. But the fact is, I remember distinctly,when centrism worked for the Democrats.
29:16Bill Clinton never would have been elected.I mean, I remember his, you know,famous sister-soldier moment,the moment that he distances himselffrom a very radical expression of, you know,liberalism, and he taxed to the center,and it is why he won.Obviously, Ross Perrault helped him greatly
29:37by being a third-party candidate.But it's interesting that, you know,you're always talking about several things.talking about the candidate, Bill Clinton was attractive and young and was trying to channel,you know, the JFK, whatever. So that is a big part of it. I think we're just so much morebroken now, though. It's interesting that now, because of that brokenness, people are lookingfor more radical answers. It's partisanship. Like, we're just a far more partisan country thatactually kind of doesn't believe in compromising with our ideological opponents.
30:31Zohran is very uncompromising.I mean, to get a lot of his agenda done, it will be interesting.He'll have to compromise.But here's the thing.I think it's possible he could be a success.Like this guy, comptroller, Brad Lander, who Zoron and him cross-endorsed each other,I bet Brad Lander will serve in his administration and really make sure that Zoron is a success.I think that he has a lot of good people who are working for him who really want to see this through.
31:10I just want to say point of order.The word comptroller has never been used at Socrates in the city before.So I think you get $50 for that often.Incredible.Yes.No, it's interesting because there's so much here.and I think what you were just saying about the ideological divisions,what's interesting to me, at least I think it's interesting,
31:30is that typically when we talk about socialism or communism,we contrasted with capitalism.But in fact, it's not necessarily an economic argument.It is more an ideological argument.There are things that go along with the progressivismthat expresses itself as socialismthat really has less to do with economicsthan with various kinds of postures, I guess, cultural postures.
32:04Are you talking about, well, maybe this is what you mean,like an overriding belief that goes along with socialismis looking out for kind of the most oppressed peoplein a society and prioritizing, raising their standard of living.Well, no, what I mean, I think what I mean is that when I think of socialism or communism, I think of big statism.I think of people who do not believe in the inherent sanctity of individual human beings.They have deified the state somehow.Right. That's the essential divide.
32:46And so the state says, what's yours is mine, and I can take it from you.So I would call that theft because I would say, you know, going back to John Locke, people have a sacred right to maybe not always property and literal sense of property, but that each of us has something that cannot be taken away from us because of our inherent rights.And of course, that's in our Declaration of Independence.And that's the bigger divide.So because I think we can all, we can quibble about capitalism.Are we talking about actual healthy capitalism or crony capitalism?capitalism, you know, I don't, that to me isn't the main question. The main question is,what is the role of government? I, here's the thing. I don't know how much, I don't know that
33:41that's the overriding philosophy or approach of a lot of his supporters. I don't think, I thinkthey think of it more of, more as a philosophy about justice. If that, no, that's what I mean.And in other words, I think it all gets blurred, but the idea is, you know, you have to define justice.And if I say, you have something that I want, do I have the right?Right. Is it justice for me to take it from you?Who gives me the authority to take it?And I guess a socialist like Mamdani would say...Well, they would say that you're wealthy because the working class made you wealthy.
34:17Right.Because you stole from the working class.Right.Right.Right.And that's the real, the more fundamental issue.Totally.Is what is justice, is what you have actually yours, who gets to decide whether you stole it,
34:36you know, should every Californian leave, seed their property to Mexico?You know, those questions, they're sort of eternal questions,but they, in some ways, precede the, you know, technical economic.issue. I will say, though, that there is this phenomenon of a Trump-Mam-Dani voter.I haven't yet met any. I'm going to go out and I'm going to knock on doors because there aredistricts or blocks that Trump did, performed well in. I mean, I don't know how many parts of the cityhe actually won besides Staten Island, but blocks where he actually got meaningful votes, thesethen went to Mom-Dani. And so the data shows that
35:21they probably are out there.And what you're talking about, well, I think that this is a huge thing that the GOP is goingto have to wrestle with.Because I guess what I'm trying to say is that the anger that, say, Luigi Mangione tappedinto is actually so much bigger than the Democratic Party than the Republican Party.And like, we can make fun of it and be like, do you want to, do you want to go?to a government-run grocery store or whatever,which, like, no, it probably is awful.
35:57But if the GOP just makes fun of it,they really need to reckon seriouslywith this anger about income inequalitybecause that is realand you can't just kind of deny it out of existence.And that's when socialism does bubble upis in eras with extreme income inequality.Well, actually, oddly, what you said reminds me going back to the Luigi Mangione story,
36:27there is a rage that people have against injustice as they perceive it.And I remember way back in the 80s when Bernard gets, the subway vigilante,this kind of odd, socially awkward man.He's confronted by four black youths threatened on a train.and what does he do, pulls out a gun and shoots at them,which I would say is like amazing, horrifying.I don't know what.But the anger against basically New York government
37:04allowing subway riders to feel constantly threatenedmade a lot of people say, look, I'm glad he did it.And in the same way that people that have been, you know,abused by the system, you know, they express almost happiness that, you know,Luigi Manjone did what he did. And so those are the, again, those are the deeper currentsthat we're dealing with here, this anger at something. Right. And then the question is,who can articulate what that something is and what the answers are? Right, right. I think that thisis, you know, Momdani is speaking to this. And I think that basically any politician that
37:44takes that head on.There is so much appetite in this countryfor actual economic populism.And I think anyonewho can embody thatwill do well.You know, Mom Donnie, he talks a lotmore about economic issues than race.
38:13Then when he is asked about trans issues,he's like, obviously the city is going to coverlike, you know,sex change operations for undocumented people.I can't remember.I saw he's given very, he's very supportive of the LGBTQ communityand has indicated that the city government should,or hospitals should continue to provide these services.
38:39But he doesn't try and showcase that.When asked about it, he will reveal it.Because he's afraid of alienating the Jew-hating radical Muslim votersthat he's depending on for his coalition.That's my guess.Well, it's basically, it doesn't poll well.It doesn't poll well.It might poll okay in New York City, but nationally, it definitely doesn't pull well.
39:03It's extremely divisive.Why would he care about the national polling?I don't know that he's looking at that.But I think he just senses that it's divisive and that there is less to gain by mentioning it than just downplaying it.Oh, yeah.No, that's why I say he's a very good politician.Right.What do you suppose is the best argument against him?
39:26And I'll give you my thought, and you can tell me,my thought would be to say to people, listen,there is no way that he can deliver on everything he's saying.Everything he's saying is beautiful,but he's kidding you into thinking that there is the money available to do this.And I would also say that you don't,know how bad things can get. In other words, it's one thing to say things are horrible, we needto do something, but in fact, someone like this actually could make things much worse, and then
40:02you will leave the city. You won't complain about how bad it is you'll leave. That's my sense.What is your sense of what the best argument is against him? It's funny because I haven't seen a goodone yet, really. Besides, he can never get this done, which, okay, the voters don't seem to care,though, and that this is basically a fantasy, a lot of his proposals.Luckily, I'm not a politician, and so I don't have to argue the case against him,but I will say that I think that this is something that Cuomo and Eric Adams are strugglingto figure out.They keep talking about experience and how you need someone who can actually get things done.
40:48Well, people didn't care about Trump.you know, and how Trump had never run for office before.I just, I don't think, obviously, that's a different voting base,but I just, this is not, like, the establishment is dead and over with.And I think that whatever the answer is,you have to basically convince people that the working class will be served by other,other solutions.And so, yeah, I think a big one is just like, well, this is going to lead to us
41:20taking on a lot more debt.And it's just, I think essentially you have to be able to prove that these things are going tomake life worse for the working class.Wow, there really is so much here.It seems to me that at the heart of all of this is the youth.I know you've written about the enthusiasm that young people have for him.which really does remind me of the enthusiasm that young people had for RFK in the late 60s.It's something that it's almost natural to expect that from young people.
42:10They're looking for answers and they see somebody who embodies it.And so it seems to me, and I want to know what you think of this,is that at this level, we've touched on it, but politics is all about,personality. That somehow, because of how he talks and looks and the biography that he presents,it's a package that people are buying. That seems to me ultimately what this larger mayoral racewill end up being about.
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