The Eric Metaxas Show - Yeonmi Park - Part 3 (Encore Continued)

Episode Date: July 25, 2023

Yeonmi Park, author of "In Order to Live" and "While Time Remains," concludes sharing her harrowing life story, including her dramatic escape from North Korea to another sad life in China.

Folks, welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show, sponsored by Legacy Precious Metals. There's never been a better time to invest in precious metals. Visit legacy p.m.investments.com. That's legacy p.m.investments.com. Welcome to the Eric Mattaxas show. They say it's a thin line between love and hate, but we're working every day to thicken that line, or at least to make it a double or triple line. But now here's your line jumping host, Eric Mattaxas.

Hey, it folks. Welcome to the Air from Taxis Show. I'm not here. Chris, I'm not here. It seems like you're here. Well, it seems like I'm here now, but when we air this, I will not be here. I will be away far, far away. I'm going to Ultima Thule.

Do you know where that is? Because I don't, but the captain of the ship knows, and he's taking us to Ultimathul. Wow. Sounds like you made up that name. Is it a real place? I think it's mythical. Yeah. But anyway, no, but we thought we would pre-record

a segment which that's this segment right now because people write us letters and things and I thought some of which we can share some of which we can share so I wanted to read this one uh someone wrote uh well we've got a few here yeah that are kind of cool and so I thought let me let me read them so this one says uh this is from Tori um it's uh well it says hello Eric I read your biography of Dietrich Bonhoeffer a few years back. It may be one of the most impactful books I've read, and you are in serious company among Thomas Sol, Wendell Berry,

and of course Dostoevsky. Of course Dostoevsky. Who wouldn't compare me in my writings to Dostoevsky? Sure. But seriously, I read something like this, and I just say, you know, because I joke around and I try to be light, but that really means a lot to me

that somebody would read my Bonhofer book and put it in that's high cotton. For context, this person writes, Tori writes, I was raised in a small town of mostly German Americans in Wisconsin and my high school managed to avoid studying World War II during history classes.

Now that is interesting because the shame, it's why I wrote the Bonhofer book. As a German, your shame for the Holocaust for what happened and you're trying to process that. And so in a sense, I wrote my book to help Germans and others understand that there were many good Germans. I was going to title the book, actually, The Good German. Because I thought to myself, nobody really talks about the fact that there were Germans like Bonhofer who stood up in the face of evil, who spoke out for the Jews.

It really, I felt it was a story that needed to be told, and that's why I wrote. it, but it's interesting that Tori writes that, you know, growing up in Wisconsin, among so many German Americans, they didn't even study World War II. She writes, even in the 70s, the subject was too raw. In the past few years, I felt a profound sense that Bonhoeffer's story was pressing on us, on our culture. It felt as if you wrote letter to the American Church, that's the new book, in response to my own yearning. Thank you, and may the peace and power of God's presence be with you always, Tori. So we get a lot of letters. We don't get to read all of them. But that it just means a lot to me. And I do think that I want to say that letter to the American church, I probably said this before. But when I was writing the Bonhofer book, this is amazing. It's 2008. I had no clue what I would discover.

So as I'm writing the story of what happened to Germany, I'm kind of like smelling the future. Like I'm thinking this, I feel like this could happen in America. Because the church during his time, they didn't really. really respond in a... Well, they didn't understand what was happening, and therefore they didn't do what could have been done to change things. Right, right. So I kind of felt like I could sort of see this happening in America, and I felt it a little

bit when I was writing the book, but in recent years, it's become really clear to me that, oh, yeah, that's exactly what is happening now. People want to know how evil took over in Germany was because of the silence of the German church. And often it was the German church. good people who felt like the smart thing to do is to be silent. And they were wrong, but it doesn't mean that they were evil, but they were complicit with evil.

At the end of the day, they were very, very wrong. At the end of the day, they were complicit if they didn't repent. And so I wrote a letter to the American church, kind of like what this woman, Tori, is saying, that it's a, you could feel that the Bonhofer story was becoming our story in America. And so I just felt, I've talked about on the Jordan Peterson podcast and in many other places. I've never, ever, ever felt God calling me to write a book.

Now, to some people that sounds loony, I, you know, I don't know what to tell you, but it does feel to me like I had never felt, I had never felt that feeling before that I've got to write this in obedience to God because this is happening now and I need to write this and I need to reach the Christians and the Christian leave. that are capable of being reached. Some are not. Some have just somehow tuned this out permanently. They're doing their own thing. Yeah.

We also get a letter which is asking a question. So I'm going to read this if we have the time. This is about the concept of women pastors. It says, Eric, recently the Southern Baptist Convention removed Saddleback Church from fellowship because Rick Warren ordained a woman pastor. pastor. Next year, the SBC Convention will move to exclude from fellowship all Southern Baptist churches that have women pastors. They're using the scripture, First Timothy chapter three, to say that being a pastor is limited to men. It seems to me that God can call whomever to do anything.

Paul wrote Timothy within the context of a patriarchal society. What's your position on this issue? Thank you. And I think the name of the person who wrote this is Ivan. Well, this is a complicated one for me. I don't know what I think about this. I don't have really, really firm views on this subject. When somebody says, it seems to me, that God can call whomever to do anything. That's really vague. I don't know what that means.

You know, God cannot call a man to give birth. There are certain fixities in what we call reality. So to say that God can call someone to do anything, it's just too vague for me. I don't know what that means. Whether women can be ordained as pastors, I speak at churches where they have the husband and his wife or pastors, so-and-so, and so-and-so, and I don't have a particular problem with that, but what I find interesting is the idea where people get upset when somebody does have a view on it and they just say, well, that's not right. Like you should, you should, in other words, if the Southern Baptist Convention has a fixed view on this,

you don't need to be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention. But if you want to be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention, you have to go along with their rules. And don't be shocked if they say, if you break our rules, you can no longer be a part of the club, because those are the rules of the club. And it's the same thing with the Catholic Church. You know, you've got people angry about Catholic time. It's like, look, the doctrine is the doctrine. And if you don't like it, you don't have to be a member of that.

that denomination. So I'm always, because I don't, I don't know what I, what I think about this. I mean, I feel like I can see both sides of it. And I, and so I've never really been, been clear on it. It's not a, it's not a deal breaker for me. And I think it all depends on what one means by being a pastor, because obviously women can do ministry. And so what are the limits of that and how does that work. I don't know. I think some of these churches are just leaning woke. And this is what I talk about in letter to the American church. And so they're using this thing of ordaining women as an excuse to kind of kick out of the Southern Baptist Convention. But I just think that this church elevate, which is a huge church in Charlotte, I think they're basically going woke. These

evangelical churches are leaning woke or they're being silent in the face of evil. They're trying to be hip, trying to go with the crowd, trying to go with the culture. That's the deeper issue, and they're using the women's ordainment, you know, as an excuse, but the reality is that they kind of want to do their own thing. And I'm not cool with that, man. Dig. Thanks for listening. Nefarious, the number one movie at SalemNow.com is available to rent today. Nefarious is like a modern-day screw tape letter's ripping back the curtain on evil. Pastor Jack Hibb says the movie captures what is going on today in America. Jim Cavizel, who played Jesus and the Passion of the Christ,

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I hope you remember my conversation with Yomi Park. We talked about her story escaping from North Korea. into China, into Mongolia, into South Korea, ending up in America, in New York City, where she is right now. Welcome back. We're talking about what happened to you. Your new book is called Wild Time Remains. And it is really, it's a gigantic blessing to me that you wrote this book because no one has more authority to talk about the evil of brainwashing of this socialist, communist,

big state narrative. No one has seen the evil of it more than you have. And now you come to America and you were describing at the end of the last show how you were astonished to see dramatic similarities here in an elite university in America. Yeah. I mean, The palerals are so many that it's, to me, it's, you know, in the name of safe space at Columbia, you're not allowed to ask many questions, right, other than that is being politically correct. And that's just down the free discussion.

And if there's only one narrative they can dominate, it always is going to bring a group think. Right. That's what's happening. And when the group, people started thinking as a group, they are going to make a lot of errors. Like think about human history, how many deaths of millions came upon because people were not able to thinking for themselves as individuals. And that was happening at Columbia, the name of safe space, that trigger warnings.

And, you know, we are physical safety. Not even that, it's like emotional safety. And I was realizing the professors were almost like disabled, perfectly fine young adults to believe that they cannot handle some speech. and this thing was drew into them even a lot before college. And this is mostly true in the most elite

parts of the United States. I mean, working class people do not experience this nearly as much. They live more in the real world. But the higher you go among the elites, especially if you end up in an Ivy League university or one of those schools or if you end up at Davos or you end up in Washington, D.C.

Or in corporate America, these ideas, now we call them woke ideas, but they're everywhere. But it's amazing to me that it starts mostly for people in the university. I mean, if you come from a normal place in America and suddenly you go to one of these universities, because it happened to me in the 80s, suddenly you say, what is going on? Where did they get these ideas from?

These are basically anti-American ideas, anti-freedom ideas, but this narrative has captured these places. But for you to come of all places from North Korea and China to America and to find this being forced on you, it's an amazing story. But it goes on from there. I mean, you managed to fight your way through Colombia. Yeah, I think it's in a way that is so. peculiar that I came to America in the time of the American culture revolution, that was just

happening. And I was witnessing that. And a lot of people think that somehow revolution is always loud and visible. And this, we are going to a silent revolution. They are changing the fabric of everything about the society that we had. And that was great about America. And now I'm a mother myself, and it's truly concerning to raise him in this environment. where he does not know how resilient he is. You know, people, I mean, the most important thing is your emotions, how you feel. Not the logic, not the truth. The most important thing is protecting your feelings.

And somehow truth just discarded like trash. And nobody values truth. And whenever the society choose that path, we know what it comes. We become like China and North Korea. It's interesting how it happened in America because this is what we call cultural Marxism. And it's in critical race theory. When I was in college in the 80s, it was called deconstruction.

And basically, what they are saying is there is no such thing as truth. Yeah. There is only power. And this is really the theology of hell. There's no truth, just power. It's deeply wicked. And it is sort of everywhere now, but it starts in the universities and it was making its way through the universities. You know, Antonio Gramsci and all these figures who, Jacques Derrida, they were undermining the idea of truth.

And it's interesting where it leads. Exactly. It leads to anarchy. Right now there's a logic, the alignment ideas are gone. the country. Now we start valuing that. You said the Enlightenment ideas, and that's, of course, the difference between to be a liberal and a leftist, because, I mean, I remember that, you know, liberals were always for free speech. Yeah.

In Berkeley, 50 years ago, it was the free speech movement, that we can say anything and we're free to speak and we can have to protect even the worst ideas. We have to have the freedom. And now the left is anti-liberal. They're not just anti-conservative. They're anti-liberal. They're against free speech. So part of the most fascinating stuff you write about in the new book, Wild Time Remains, is when you talk about, you talk about being invited into the most elite circles imaginable, flying on a plane.

with Jeff Bezos and being with Hillary Clinton and Harvey Weinstein. And you were invited into these super elite places. Talk a little bit about that. Yeah, so I came to America and I wrote a first book with a very prominent publisher and imprints within Penguin Random House. So that almost gave me some kind of a protection where, you know, like my, My agents were trying their best to, like, feed me into the liberal, like, liberal circle. Yeah.

Because I was not allowed to talk about a lot of things. And then, so I got invitation to attend, you know, women in the world. And Jeff Bezos, like, private event in California and flew in the same private jet with Harvey Weinstein and all these people. And, like, going to Met Gala. Oh, I forgot about that when you talked about going to the Met Gala. So, yeah, you were ushered in to this place. to these places that are definitely as elite as it gets. Yeah.

And it was because you had, in a way, the blessing of random house, penguin books. You know, you're just, you're celebrated. But of course, in the middle of all this, you're thinking for yourself and you're kind of looking around making notes. Yeah. So tell us about what was your hope when you were, because, I mean, you were described then as a human rights activist. So your hope was that you can get these terrible stories out to people with power to do something. So it's like that in North Korea, you know, in public image of Kim Jong-un is the most benevolent father.

Like he sits down on the floor with the farmers and children. He checks on the people's like, you know, pantries if they have food. So Kim's have this amazing, like, the publicity around them. And I did not realize that American elites also had the same thing. How they care about the public good and public health and climate change and how they do not stand for any hate and discrimination. That's what they say. They're like, there's no place for hate at Amazon.

You know, so I believe that all that public image they were putting on. I thought these people, if they knew what was happening to North Korean women, like there are 300,000 North Korean girls in China right now are being sold, like livestock. Okay, say that again. Right now, there are 300,000 North Korean women being sold into sexual slavery in China, and China knows this. Yeah. And China, it's not only they're not doing anything about it, they're making it happen.

Yeah, they're exploiting the swimming. And I thought the people who have power, they knew about the truth. I thought they were not going to stand up, right? They denounce slavery in America. They denounce hate in America. Why on earth they would not do that? So you're talking about the liberal elites that you're swimming in those circles and you feel that when you tell them your story and they can,

get to know this, they're going to help you do something about this. That was the hope. That was my objective. When did you begin to think that's not true? When New York Times was only interested having me on their platform to talk about how horrible Trump was. So when Trump was meeting Kim Jong-un as having a summit, I was very vocal about that that was not a good thing, that Kim Jong-un is not going to give up the nukes and that he was going to giving him the legitimacy. And that was the only time that Time magazine, New York Times, BBC, were willing to. They sought you out because you were doing what they were hoping you would do, which has criticized President Trump.

Well, that makes sense. It's happened to a few of us. We'll be right back talking to Yom-Me Park. The new book is While Time Remains. Every day, the parallel economy grows bigger and bigger. It's powered by everyday Americans who are sick and tired of all the woke propaganda being jammed. into every product they consume. Big mobile companies are no different.

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Welcome back. I'm talking to Yomi Park. The new book is Wild Time Remains. So you really believed I'm going to talk to these elites. They have unbelievable power. And they're going to help bring attention to this nightmare in the world of China subjugating all of these people helping North Korea to subjugate 25 million people. So, yeah, when did you get the hint that they're not? interested in what you're interested in?

They were only featuring me on their platform. They only gave me their platform to me when I was criticizing President Trump. For meeting with Kim Jong-un. Yeah. Not when I wanted to talk about the modern day slavery that was happening in China,

not the horrors of communism and starvation. So I thought that was very unbelievable. They said, you know, we serve the public. We are, you know, inform the public about the truth and global affairs. But the only thing they wanted to inform the public was like that how Trump was not a good leader.

So I kind of got some clue, but I still did not know how manipulative and how they were like just North Korean State television. They were lying to the public like that. And then I got to meet these people off the record gatherings, Nancy Pelosi. I mean, she talks about how she stands for the women. right Hillary Clinton how she cares about women's rights and telling them like this is what is happening to women. Like their organs are harvest out of them. And you have power.

You have so many people found. They have the like Gates Foundation and Clinton Foundation. They have money. They can rescue one North Korean girl for $2,000. And they can talk to China to stop them modern day slavery. They all say, I'm so sorry what happened to you, but please don't tell anybody that I know you. and I have met you. You're kidding.

They said don't tell people. They said don't tell anyone that I know you. Don't mention their ever name in public. Yeah. And that's what they said. And of course you never mentioned their names, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi. I mean, listen, I'm at a point now where I'm not surprised to hear these things, but I'm still sickened every time I hear things like this. Because we are talking about real suffering.

Yeah. And these people claim to want to help the poor, to help women. And you and I know that they're not doing that. But they keep up the image. And they're propped up. The media helps to prop up this image that this is what they're doing. And that if you're against them, you're against women. Yeah, you're against.

Or that Trump is against women. And this is a very dark time in America, as you know. And you know this is a new thing. I mean, this was not, it's gotten. dramatically worse since when Trump became president, in a way, the narrative shifted. And people who would not have been so open about what they believe they're desperate to defeat Trump or to defeat this narrative, to defeat a narrative that would put China on the defensive. And so in a way, we've seen a very dramatic change, and you know this, but just in the last few years.

So the question is, where does it go from? here. We know that Joe Biden is not interested in confronting China. Yeah. I think it's up to us. Like that's the beauty of democracy that we still have. I hope so. Our vote matters and I hope that people speak out and choose the better leader than what we currently have. We don't know who the leader is today. No one knows. It's, well, what's interesting, of course, is that, and you were saying this before, when you have tremendous state power, it goes hand in hand

with corruption. Yeah. Because the beauty of the American system when it works is that it works against corruption. It works for transparency and liberty and your vote counts. And if you work hard, you can that's the way it's supposed to work. But this has eroded so that now

even there are many Americans who have become cynical who believe like, it doesn't matter if I vote, they're cheating. Once that happens, in a way, the other side wins. You have to keep fighting. But there are many Americans that feel, why should I bother? It's already settled. And I want to do everything I can to wake those people up.

Because I think you would say the same thing, that while there is any chance you must fight. Right. I mean, what's the alternative? Are we going to be like North Koreans and dying from starvation and our children, like, give that fate to them? Like, I think that America gone through a lot of hardships. That's a thing. Like, it's not like this path of this country was always smooth, right? We had to go to the Wild West. I mean, we defeated Nazi. We had to go through many World Wars to defeat and keep the liberty alive. So I think just understanding this revolution, is happening. And that is trying to destroy America. And it's our time to become the founders again. It's our time to become the founders again. That's really good, Yomi, because that's exactly right. We have to rediscover these basic things. And I think we were saying it before that only when things get bad. I mean, we said at the beginning of the first show, because of COVID, we saw authoritarian government overreach for the first time. Many people for the first time woke up.

Many people said, wait a minute, what's going on? I have to push back. Because most people up until this point in their lives, in my own life, never really saw something so dramatic that you said, we better wake up, we better push back. Folks, I'm talking to Yonmi Park. It's spelled Y-E-O-N-M-I. Yomi Park. The new book is Wild Time Remain. Welcome back talking to Yomi Park. How do you say your name? I want to say it exactly right. Oh, you got it by Yonmi.

Close enough, Yomi. Yes. Your new book is Wild Time Remains. People have to read the first book first in order to live a North Korean girl's journey to freedom. And then it sets you up to read Wild Time Remains because once people know your story, they understand you speak from such authority. But if they don't read the first book in order to live, it's not as powerful. I think it's very important people understand. what you've been through to bring you to this place.

You realize that we are living through something dramatic now, but as we said before, I think more and more people are waking up. And that's, I see as my role, to wake people up. And specifically speaking to the American church, because in Germany, under the Nazis, the church was very sloth. slow to realize what was happening. And they kept thinking, well, not yet. We don't want to speak up yet. We'll just go along. We'll go along. And by the time they realized, criminals have taken over,

we have no freedom. It was too late. And so in a way, that's part of my mission is to try to wake up the church in America, because what happened in Germany is happening here. And of course, it doesn't matter what country we're talking about. This is the death of freedom, which is the enemy of humanity and people are suffering. You, now that when you realize that these elites were not interested in helping, do you think, I mean, a lot of people are making a lot of money from China. So it's difficult for us to process that there are people that they know they're making, it's blood money.

They know, maybe they don't want to know, they ignore the fact that they are complicit in evil in harming women, in harming human beings. You talked about organ harvesting. We've had people on this program talking about that. It's like inconceivable to most Americans that this is true. They think this is just some conspiracy theory. Yeah. Wow. I think that's a thing.

It's like when people can easily blame the, like you can, like, you can, like, you know, know, I could easily blame capitalism for what Jeff Bezos does. They try to maximize the prop. But when I was rereading the founder's intention of free market is that without virtue, that's, that's anarchy, that's a greedy thing. And in some sense, like we need God more than God needs us. Oh, definitely. Exactly.

God doesn't need us. Right. And I think that's why whenever you see a country has become more secular and like North Korea, there's no other God can compete with the dictator government. The horrible things happen. And I think our leaders need to have, I don't know, however defined a God for them, like the spirituality, that virtue, that discipline, the morality, the morality. The morality is gone.

There's nothing wrong and good and bad anymore for the children. Everything is okay. It's so scary. Like, how did we come to this place? Like, there's clearly something is not okay. And you're not allowed to say that. Well, that's, I mean, I wrote a book. I think I'm giving you a copy.

It's called If You Can Keep It. And this is all of the founders in America understood this. All of the founders. Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, Adams, everyone you can think of understood these ideas. Yeah. That without God, without faith, you will have no virtue. Without virtue, you cannot have self-government and freedom.

You cannot have a constitutional republic. with people governing themselves unless the people have virtue. And virtue comes somehow from faith. But you can't force faith. Faith has to be free. But the same is true of the free market. The free market will give you what you want. If you want better drugs and pornography,

the free market will give you better drugs than pornography. So if you don't have virtue in the free market, there's no free market. But it's amazing. to me that you are such a young woman, you understand these ideas, and you see what's happening. So I, I, I, um, you give me hope, uh, Yomi, because, you know, I, I think I would say, I don't know how you see it, but that God has raised you up as a voice. He allowed you to go through this hell to bring you to where we are now.

You have, you speak from authority because of your suffering. So what are you doing with yourself? What do you see your mission? I mean, I think if you wrote this book, it's obvious that your mission is to get the word out about everything we're talking about. Yeah, I think it's when you survive something like that, you know, it's not because I was great that I overcame it. You know, somebody helped me who was much bigger than me. And I have a responsibility to become a witness for the genocide that is happening. my people in China and North Korea.

So I'm still not giving up hope. If the elites and listen, I think that average Americans would care, and they do care. They care way more than this empty world that elites do. And once American people understand the evil of China, I think we can elect better leaders to stop this horrible, horrible genocide government that is in China. Well, I mean, that's why I always say to people, like, if you can find someone better than Trump who understands this, feel free. But he seems to be the only person who understands these things and who has the wisdom to see it and to fight it with wisdom, not just. Encourage you to go for it, right?

Like, do that. That's what's interesting because it does take courage. And in the history of the world, you know that evil prevails when people don't have courage. They say, you know what, I will just look the other way. I'll try to make a comfortable life for myself. And so I think of all of these companies, woke companies, doing business with China, are they demanding that China changes human rights policy? They demanding transparency on organ harvesting and the Uyghur Muslim.

Are they demanding those things? They're not. They don't. Which is unbelievable. Even in Tibetans, their race get eliminated. Their heritage, their culture is like what's happening to those people. It's unbelievable. Well, as I say, you give me hope because you're a young woman

and you're speaking out about this kind of thing. But I want to say again to my audience, we have a final segment with Yomi. But I want to say really just bluntly. I don't usually speak so bluntly. But I really hope you will read her book in order to live. before you read, her new book, Wild Time Remains, and I hope you'll pass these ideas onto your kids because the time is very short.

We'll be right back. Final segment with Yomi Park. Her first book is In Order to Live, A North Korean Girl's Journey to Freedom, which is mandatory reading. And then her new book, Wild Time, Remains, A North Korean Defector's Search for Freedom in America. You must have been amazed,

you and me when I think you remember when Dennis Rodman was making trips to North Korea and being friendly with the dictator, how is it possible that somebody could be so naive to evil? Because there were people

like that who were friends with Hitler. I mean, they were friendly with him. They only saw him in nice environments, but they closed their eyes to things. I don't know what Dennis Rodman is doing today or if he's changed his view. I think that speaks to the decade of morality in America

that you can go sing a happy birthday song to dictator and pay your respect like that and when he was in North Korea he was getting drunk with a pleasure squadguers within North Korea there are Wait a minute, wait a minute I don't think I've heard this

Dennis Rodman was taking advantage of the sex slavery in North Korea surrounding the dictator Yeah I didn't know that Yeah. It's, it was horrible. What he did was, it speaks to the current state of America, really, that how little standard that we have and how tolerant we are, like, how are we not calling him out? You know, it's like he just, people were just on CNN having fun with him and just found he sort of fascinating and that was it. And I'm really sorry. Like, I think he just, that's just, that's.

standard that we hold for our citizens. I think still he has a freedom to do that. I believe in that. But still we have a right to call that out. That was disgusting. Oh, yeah. No, it is. It's horrifying. It's horrifying. But again, I think the bigger picture is our complicity with China. That people are making millions and billions of dollars from China. And they're participating somehow in Oregon harvesting in the slave trade. They're not, I mean, the least you can do when you have the power as we do in America, which Ronald Reagan did this. I believe Donald Trump did this.

They say to these dictators and these people, listen, if you want to trade with us, you have to change this and this and this. And if you don't, you will not trade with us. We have tremendous power. Yeah. And if you don't use that power, you're participating in the evil. It's like to me, it's like these politicians are willing to sell our country for just a few million dollars. Like, look at Hunter Biden.

Like, these politicians are so, the worth of this country is not even accountable. This is such a precious country that we have. And they are willing to start this country for just pocket money they get from China. And that's the leaders that we have in Washington, D.C. I wish I didn't agree. I wish I didn't know this was true, but this is true. but I believe that with God all things are possible and that we have to fight

and that people when they read your book hopefully both your books but I believe that when people read your books they will be ashamed not to fight I think people need to be ashamed not to fight to say there's nothing I can do if you say there's nothing I can do that's the voice of the devil

and you're participating in the evil folks you have to fight with God in God's strength. But we are really just so privileged, Yomi, to have your voice and to have this time with you. I hope we can have you back to continue. These are the most important conversations that we can have. So thank you very much. God bless you.