The Exorcist Files - BONUS: Angels In Islam

Episode Date: March 5, 2024

Our deep dive into the unseen realm continues with an exploration into the world of the angelic in Islam. While the two faiths diverge enormously and are not theologically compatible, we welcome respected Scholar Dr. Chris Prejean to walk us through what we share in common and what separates us. SPONSORS OF TODAY'S EPISODEWant more Exorcist Files Content? Subscribe to The Vault for exclusive deep dives into past cases and Ask Me Anything Episodes with Father Martins. SPONSORS OF TODAYS EPISODEFireBreaker Series-    A dramatic and epic adventure recounting the legend of George and the Dragon. A fun narrative podcast that is great for the family, starring Wizards of Waverly Place Star David Henrie.  Click here to listenSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Do you crave more Exorcist Files content? Do you want to go deeper into theology and spiritual warfare? Well, you're going to want to subscribe to The Vault, our new premium subscriber program. The Vault is our way of ensuring we bring you content all year long. Subscribers will get access to exclusive once a month, Ask Me Anything episodes with Father Martins, where you can submit questions and vote on the ones you want him to answer most. You'll also get access to a very special case behind the case series,

where we relisten to past episodes and cases, and Father reflects back on insights and anecdotes he just didn't have time to get into in the podcast. To subscribe, head on over to exorcistfiles.tv and sign up, or just click the link in the show notes. Again, that's exorcistfiles.tv to get access to the vault. In Islam, there are seven levels of heaven, and there's one layer of hell with seven gates.

And they're connected by this bridge that all people at resurrection have to cross and metal hooks will come and kind of knock off those who are evil into the pits and those who are good will make it to heaven. That's not to say they might not be punished. There is though, before resurrection, this purgatory-like place called Barzach.

And Barzach is an intermediate state where believers and unbelievers wait. this is begins even before that with a process of questioning in the grave about the deeds of life and certain angels are sent to question you in your grave

and weigh your deeds and you can receive torments while you're in the grave even before you get to this intermediate position or walk the bridge welcome back to the Exorcist Files an earful of earnest edification of the ethereal and all things spiritual

I am your co-host Ryan Bethay, and today we will be continuing our supernatural sojourn into the unseen realm through an entirely different lens. Oh, do I have your attention now? What sorcery is this, you ask? Well, regular listeners know we have 100% zero sorcery policy, so to all you sorcerers out there, don't do it. We warn you, big no-no. Now, before I tell you about the special spiritual detour, I do need to be a hundred percent. make a few announcements. Hey, Brian. Hello. Father, well, look who it is. Father Martins, what are you doing here? It's me checking in from the road from sunny Boca Raton, Florida.

Have you retired already, finally? No, I'm still in full swing. Still upright, still moving. Okay, so you're busy, obviously, with the arm of St. Jude and ushering in miracles across the country. So I have to ask, you know, what do you, like? What are you doing here when I'm doing my intro? Well, I figured I'd come and rescue the fans from having to listen to you, drone on with your incessant dad jokes and punks. Are you this mean to the demons? For the demons, Ryan, I'm even meaner.

Okay. If this is how you want to spend your precious free time, then fine. But can I at least get the announcements out of the way? Carry on. As I was saying, if you've been blessed by our work here, love my dad jokes, or are simply tired of waiting for next season's case files, please head to your nearest smartphone or computer and visit Exorcistfiles.tv and sign up for our Kickstarter. It will take you 30 seconds, maybe even less. You will be among the first then

to know when our exclusive rewards go live during the campaign. I know scripture says the first shall be last, but in this case, that's not true. The first will definitely be the first. We are going to be offering t-shirts, music, some very special rosaries, prayer cards, private VIP zooms with Father, and even for a very lucky few, a dinner with an Exorcist. Can someone say Mexican food? Camaroni's the Diablo? This Kickstarter campaign is to help us finish season two, so go do it now. Visit the link in our show notes, Exorcistfiles.tv, for we know our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against production costs and equipment. Amen. Okay, back to the hidden reality. Today we will be exploring the world of angels and demons,

curses and exorcism, through the lens of the world's second largest religion, Islam. Now, you might be wondering, why is this relevant? Well, Grasshopper, when it comes to demons, angels, gins, and exorcism, they are all a major part of Islam, and it is very fascinating. But beyond the angiological similarities, yes, I said angelogical, deal with it. While the two faiths have enormous and significant, significant theological differences. There does exist a tremendous amount of common ground, especially when it comes to the perspective that our world has far more spiritual activity

than we probably appreciate. So now, I'd like... Ryan, can I just finish this? I think the listeners have heard about it. Fine. Go ahead. So look, let me just say, I'm a Catholic priest, and this shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. but I believe Islam and Christianity are two completely different religions.

So why release an episode on angels in Islam? There's a great quote from Pope Benedict, which I'll share, that captures the sentiment. In 2006, he set a speech in Italy to the ambassadors of Muslim countries and representatives of Islamic communities in Italy. In a world marked by relativism and too often excluding the transcendence and universality of reason, we are in great need of an authentic dialogue between religions and between coaches, capable of assisting us in a spirit of fruitful cooperation to overcome all the tensions together. Continuing then, the work undertaken by my predecessor, Pope John Paul II, I sincerely pray that the relations of trust, which have developed between Christians and Muslims

over several years, will not only continue, but will develop further. in a spirit of sincere and respectful dialogue, based on ever more authentic reciprocal knowledge, which, with joy, recognizes the religious values that we have in common and, with loyalty, respects the difference. I also think our listeners will find much of what we share in this episode with regards to demons, curses, and sin

to be particularly interesting, especially in light of what we've discussed on previous episodes. How was that right? You're a natural. All right, let's just get to the episode. As we discussed in our last episode on the angelic hierarchy with Father Basil Cole, the subject of angels is not an exact science. There is a lot we simply do not know.

In addition, in the Abrahamic faith traditions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, there exists a striking overlap of thought when it comes to the spiritual realm. In the hopes of fostering a better understanding between people of the faiths, we wanted to bring on a highly respected expert in the fields of the Arabic language and Islamic history, who, wait for it, is actually a devout Christian. My name is Dr. Chris Brazan. I have a PhD from UCLA where I studied Arabic and Islamic law and the Christians and Jews who lived under Islamic law in the pre-modern, pre-industrial period. I also did my master's degree there in Arabic and classical studies. And just before that, I did a bachelor's degree in theological studies. I have been working for the UCLA-Sinai Portal Project, where I research Arabic manuscripts and help build out the data portal for researchers.

And most recently, I've become the executive director of a multi-faith program called the Study of Religions across Civilizations. Dr. Prejan is an expert on many facets of Arabic, Islamic law, and Islamic history. Now, one does not just pick up Arabic, right? Interestingly, it was his faith in Christ that initially motivated him to look into Islam and pursue a life of academic work in this field. I first began studying Arabic really as a call from God on my life to learn Arabic. When I got my life radically changed from living on the streets, basically, to studying and learning more about God.

I heard two calls in my life. One was to learn Arabic, and the other one was to work with younger. people. And so I never let go of that. I've lived my life for 13 years based on those two sentences that I heard from God. When I got to UCLA, after my undergraduate studies, I could finally undertake the study of Arabic. And it was there that I just started reading and following different trails in the literature to understand more about what Christian life was like or how Christians were conceived in the medieval world. People ask me all the time, why do you study Islam? You're a Christian.

What are you trying to do? Are you trying to prove it wrong? Are you trying to convert people? But really the truth is I'm trying to understand it. I'm trying to understand why such a large population in our world comes to faith in what seems to be a similar God, but shares a multitude of similar beliefs, how there can be so much animosity and hatred. So I continue to study and learn. and in doing so I learn about my own faith, and I sharpened my own faith. Now, I have heard many people claim to be called by God to be an actor, or move to Nashville or Austin,

but rare is the person I meet who is called by God to learn Arabic. I'm inclined to believe the good doctor, and grateful that God called me to listen to people who were called to learn Arabic. Part of the reason I wanted Dr. Prejan to come on was that perhaps more than ever, we are seeing the worlds of the Abrahamic faiths collide in profound ways, and the better they understand each other, the better prospects for peace we may have. It is very much a part of our world. And one of the big problems that I've seen and witness is when people say,

oh, you study the Middle East. Well, in fact, I did choose the Middle East, but more Arabic-speaking Muslims live outside of just the Middle East as conceived as do in it, or non-Arabic-speaking peoples who have adopted Islam, Indonesia, Southeast Asia, you name it. It's spread all across the world, and the populations in those countries are much larger than just the Middle East. It's more relevant today, especially between Christians, Muslims, and Jews to work together, to talk about these things, not to just find common ground, but to discuss the deep differences between the communities. and I think the one thing inhibiting contact between Muslims and non-Muslims

and violence between them is a lack of religious literacy. I asked Dr. Prejan if he had an example of this inaction. What makes religious literacy hard between Muslims and Christians? I'll just give one example here briefly. When I was in Morocco, almost no one knew anything about Christianity except from the figure that they read about in the Quran, which is so different than the Christian we know today. The Quran,

Islam's holy book shares many stories, characters, and themes with the Christian Bible. I was surprised at just how many of the Christian characters make appearances. The list is very long from Jesus, David, Solomon, Noah, Adam, there's Zechariah, there are Mary, Jesus' mother. And the list goes on and on. There's somewhere, I'm not sure if this is the exact number, but upwards of 20 or more figures from the New Testament and from the, the Hebrew Bible that appear in the Quran. In part, this is due to the parallel stories found in the Quran, events like the Garden of Eden, the Golden Calf, and even stories from the life of Jesus can be found in the

Quran, although the stories typically play out with very different endings and with plenty of additions and variations. For example, in the creation accounts of both the Quran and the Bible, Adam is created from clay or dust, and there is a tree that is off limits for humanity to eat of, and which Satan tempts Adam to eat. Yet, in the Islamic account, Satan is accepted. explicitly cast down to Earth for his rebellion. Eve is not explicitly named.

Adam recites and teaches the names God gave him for the animals to the angels, and there's only one tree mentioned instead of the two. Now, for our discussion on angels and the world of the supernatural, I asked the good doctor to share about the world of Islamic cosmology and their view of the unseen realm. The Islamic cosmology, how the universe has revealed, is made up and is an essential part of Muslim belief in practice. In fact, you can't really understand Islam, as you've just pointed out, without the presence

of angels and demons, but there's also other created beings in the Islamic world, spiritual beings. So we have humankind is one creation. The angels are another. And the third are genies or the Jin. And these are invisible figures that can go to heaven. They can convert to Christianity. They can become Muslims.

And they are also part and parcel of Muslim thought and traditions, theological, philosophical, you name it throughout centuries. And there's also one more category. And that's these virgins of heaven called the Hournysat. And these are the women who are controversially will be companions to the virgin women who will be companions to martyrs who are. escorted by angels to heaven to receive their prize. Humans, demons, and jinns, oh my. As Dr. Brijan notes, the Islamic spiritual world is chock-full of a whole cast of ethereal beings

that serve specific functions in the spiritual realm. I was also curious if their angelic realm had a similar hierarchy or perhaps one overarching adversary of mankind, like the devil in Christianity. Satan is the great tempter in Islam. He's referred to as shaitan, is Satan when he is tempting. He might tempt believers while they're praying,

so they can't perform their ritual prayers daily. And that can be a major problem. There is one shaitan, and there are many satans that are variously interpreted, whether they're Jin or whether they're people. You could say Jesus says, you're of the devil. Very much in that same way the Quran uses those terms. The Quran has quite a bit of information on the full. fall of Satan. It's a very similar narrative in the Islamic conception. He's actually called

iBlis before he falls. When he's the tempter, he's called shaitan or Satan. There's a confusing set of traditions on whether or not Satan was an angel or a jin, or if he was converted from a jin to an angel at one point by God. But generally speaking, the story in the Quran about the fall of Adam and its relationship with the fall of Satan is similar to Christianity. In the Quran, Satan refuses to bow to Adam at God's command. And that brings up a lot of issues. But that is the point at which God casts Satan down from this cosmological seventh heaven down to the bottom, the lowest heaven, which is where the Garden of Eden rests in Islamic thought. Now, in the New Testament, 2 Corinthians chapter 2, verse 12, Paul refers to someone he knows

who was taken up to, quote, the third heaven, implying that there are multiple levels of heaven and maybe hell. Given that in Catholic teaching, there exists a state of purgatory, I was curious how exactly the multiple realms of heaven factored into the view of salvation in Islam. In Islam, there are seven levels of heaven, and there's one layer of hell with seven gates. and they're connected by this bridge that all people at resurrection have to cross, and metal hooks will come and kind of knock off those who are evil into the pits, and those who are good will make it to heaven. That's not to say they might not be punished.

There is, though, before resurrection, this purgatory-like place called Barzach. And Barzach is an intermediate state where believers and unbelievers wait. This begins even before that with a process of questioning in the grave about the deeds of life and certain angels are sent to question you in your grave and weigh your deeds. And you can receive torments while you're in the grave even before you get to this intermediate position or walk the bridge. Talk about the worst reboot of Seventh Heaven ever. Amen. Father Martin's here. I want to do a quick plug for one of the most powerful tools I've seen for

breaking free and growing closer to Christ. Exodus 90. The Exodus 90 challenge begins this year on January 20th, but this isn't just a 90-day program. Exodus 90 is a spirituality for modern men that is built on three ancient pillars, prayer, self-sacrifice, and fraternity. We all long for something more. We long to be the men God created us to be. sons of a loving father. It's time to turn away from our idols. It's time to break free from the pharaohs that hold us in bondage. If you're ready to make a fresh start and embark on a journey to uncommon freedom in Jesus Christ,

then download the Exodus 90 app today. This is your chance to break free, refocus, and rediscover who God is calling you to be in the new year. It starts January 20th. So go to Exodus 90.com slash X-Files to learn more about Exodus 90. That's Exodus 90.com slash X-Files to join tens of thousands of men from all over the world for Exodus 90. Again, it begins Monday, January 20th. God bless you. Welcome back to The Exorcist Files.

Like Catholic theology, Islam seems to feature various states of purgation, and like Christianity, accounting for one's deeds with a judgment. Now, Dr. Berjan mentioned that angels make an appearance to bring messages. It appears in Islam that angels have very similar roles as they do in Christianity. The main thing that angels do are reveal divine messages. So you're thinking very similar to Christianity, revealing the birth of Jesus Christ. low-hanging fruit. In much the same way, angels reveal the message of God to Muhammad. And during the last year of his life, do a couple review sessions to make sure that he knows the message well when Gabriel came before Muhammad died to make sure that he had the Quran perfectly. But there's a lot of other roles as well,

messengers not just being the only one. So Raphael is mentioned, not a lot of engagement with him that I'm aware of, Michael is usually, instead of being a messenger to people, he's a messenger to angels, other angels. And as far as we know, there's not an army of Satan's out there. Satan seems to be, once he falls, the leader of the Jin, these genies, and other evil forces. So angels serve primarily as messengers, like in Christianity, but given the different entities he referenced, I was curious of any such hierarchy.

akin to what Father Basil Cole shared exists. I don't know if the hierarchies are worked out as specifically, not that I remember, but there are ones like the angel of death. And the angel of death comes and visits people in their grave. And he is often said to be the closest to God because he holds up God's throne. So there are angels who are closer to God

and somehow seen with more respect maybe than others. But other than the four archangels, There doesn't seem to be other hierarchical divisions. Okay, he's mentioned gin or genies that sometimes it gets pluralized a few times now. Of course, for many of us, our scholastic exposure to such beings is through the liturgical masterpiece, Aladdin. Apparently, this masterwork of cinema is not entirely accurate in its depiction of genies. They are not big blue butlers who just grant you wishes. There's a long history in Islam about engagements with genies, both good and bad, love affairs with humans,

possessing people, good and bad relationships with saints. In popular Islamic thought, genies can be kind of good and bad. You can have a good genie on one shoulder and a bad genie on the other shoulder, type speak, like a devil and an angel on their shoulders. And that is popular Islamic thinking, and it does inhabit the minds of many Muslims across the world, maybe not to the same extent that Robin Williams and Aladdin does where he grants wishes. But they are powerful beings, and they're a force to be right.

with. Genies come in many shapes and sizes. Genies can appear to be gruesome when they do, but they are generally invisible and unseen. It can be very scary and something to be on your guard. Interestingly, Father Martins did have an anecdote about genies he wanted to share. I used to be the Catholic chaplain at York University in Toronto, and Toronto has a phenomenal amount of Muslims within it. The university certainly did. But besides that, I had, a large amount of students, Christian students, who had lived within a Muslim majority country and one hour in Toronto studying. And some of the Muslim students were converts.

And so they had switched from that worldview into a Christian one. So you have these three different sets of people, Muslims, Muslim converts to Christianity, and Christians who had lived in Muslim countries. What was fascinating was they all told them. of experiences, whether it was firsthand or they knew people to whom this happened, they would be entering a bathroom and suddenly behind the door of the bathroom out comes this teenager or a young woman that would hop out of the bathroom and dartle the life out of them and would escape, would come out, would leave their field of vision and then all of a sudden they turn their head

to go see them again and now they're hundreds of feet, hundreds of meters away. The common denominator was always it was a bathroom. It could be an outhouse. It could be a bathroom in a home. It could be a bathroom, a series of bathrooms that multiple homes would use in common. And the gin would live inside the bathroom and was kind of startled in that moment and disappears. There is a convergence of that within the Judeo-Christian understanding of humans, where the devil is called the Elphiorese, which is the prince of dung or the prince of excrement.

So there is a commonality where in both of our experiences within the Judeo-Christian and within the Islamic encountering or experiences with female. So in Islam, there are dark spirits who attempt to wreak havoc on the faithful, another point of agreement between the faiths. Now, since we are the exorcist files, I had to ask about exorcism and Islam. It might be surprising to some to hear that Muhammad himself is an exorcist. He not only endured charms that were sorcery that was enacted to hurt him, but he also cast out demons himself very much in similar ways to what Jesus did in the New Testament. In Islam, there's not a formal role of an exorcist.

There are today all over the world, from Sweden to all over Africa to Indonesia, a person called a Raki. And they are exorcists. And they are able to go through kind of a procedure of getting this demon out. There's a large literary output on this topic today and what the exorcist does and what are the procedures, what are the modes of operation, the methods that can be used. There's an example from the prophet's life where a man couldn't remember how many times he had done his bows. And there's a rigid amount that he wanted to do. The man was plagued with some kind of illness or some kind of possession. And so it goes to the prophet and he says, I can't remember.

I keep getting distracted. And the prophet beckons him and says, come closer. And when he comes close, Muhammad wax him in the stomach and breathes into his mouth. And the man doesn't have the problem after that. Interestingly, the 19th century Christian revivalist Smith Wigglesworth, yes, that name is real, was said to punch demons out of people. While the exorcisms were successful, I'm sure many people required some healing prayer immediately after. Now, when it comes to the realm of the demonic and sickness, we have discussed curses and afflictions that demons can cause believers in Christ,

even baptized believers. I asked Dr. Bajan to give us an overview of how the realm of the demonic interacts with humans according to Islamic tradition. Every believer is subject to the worlds of demonic possession, of sickness, of the influence of evil from shaitan and other satans at all times. One of the ways to remove that influence is to recite the Quran, an incantation by the recitation of the Quran. In fact, two chapters of the Quran, there were specifically revealed to Muhammad, it's chapters 113 and 114, when Muhammad had undergone this curse from either a

sorceress or a Jewish man. As the story goes, someone had tied some knots in a charm, thrown it into a well. The angel Gabriel comes, rescues Muhammad by telling him, hey, go send someone to grab this out of the well and recite these verses. And we have those verses now in the Quran, and they're still used to protect believers from the power of Satan. And when that doesn't work, it gets physical. Now, the doctor mentioned curses, which do play prominent role in Islam. Ever heard of the evil eye? Well, it's not just for Mordor anymore.

The evil eye is an involuntary act of looking on someone with envy. And when you look on someone with envy, it can make them suffer. You are opening them up to a spiritual realm to be attacked. And so when I was learning Arabic at UCLA, any time we would see pictures of babies or when I was at Middlebury College doing immersive Arabic, when someone was talking about a baby, you always have to say, mashah Allah, mashah Allah, to keep this evil eye away. So it's an involuntary act. It puts people in a position to be spiritually open to attack. It has its origins in ancient Egyptian religion. Christians and Jews also share in this heritage.

And some people even link some Bible scriptures to this, Matthew 2015, where Jesus says, is it not lawful for me to do what I want with what is my own? Or is your eye envious because I am generous? So some people kind of link this. But the idea that the evil eye is prevalent has been part of the experience and practices of Middle Eastern Christians for quite some time. The other thing that I connect to it, and this is speculation, but do you remember the story in the biblical text where Abraham says his wife's his sister?

and then all of this mess is made of it. And people try to interpret this in many ways. But I think, speculating, this is something very much the evil eye was brought on. And it could be interpreted as the evil eye being brought on and causing havoc by Abraham allowing others to look upon his wife with envy or look upon him with envy. So again, another area of commonality, an instituting of major safeguards against envy. In Christianity, envy is notoriously toxic, and scripture is replete with warnings to avoid it like the plague. In the New Testament, James, chapter 3, verse 16, says,

When envy and selfish ambition exists, there you will find every evil practice. Envy and its evil sibling covetness can warp the mind and lead Christians into actively resenting God's plan for their life. And perhaps even worse, to resent God's will for others, causing division and discord. These sins are also particularly insidious because, of course, humans will feel envy when good things happen to other people, fairly wondering why perhaps a certain good thing has been withheld from their own life. Christian teaching offers hope here that God in his sovereignty decides what is to be ours, at least for now, and that God in his wisdom, for whatever reasons he so chooses, dispenses gifts to people in the time and manner of his choosing, knowing ultimately what is best for everyone.

The believer is to reject envy and instead actively rejoice with believers when God's good gifts are on display in their lives. Speaking of more commonalities, Dr. Prejohn said specifically in the U.S., Muslims and Christians have quite a bit in common beyond just politics and community. In the last 20 or 30 years, there's been an increasing amount of... theological scholarship from Christians on Islam, which is really great to see at an institutional level because in our educational institutions can begin to transmit knowledge to new generations of students who are encountering Muslims more often. In the U.S., Muslims and Christians have more

in common with one another beyond politics, transcending politics and any other community affiliations, then they do with secularists and the non-religious, the strength of family, the views about education and ensuring that our children have some kind of clear, rooted moral order. And Christians and Muslims are experiencing a bit of trauma now and siloing themselves. And that's the opposite approach that we need to take. we need to take an approach where we even know the other person as a person. Most Muslims and most Christians and most religious people are more than just that religious

identity. These people are parents, their community organizers, and they're not looking to convince others about their faith. Maybe they just want a good life for their kids. Maybe they just want to do a community project. And so my encouragement to Christians and what I would love to see and what I'm doing in my personal life is, is trying to create these encounters,

ones that are human, ones that bring people to understand one another on what they believe, not what they've heard about the other person's faith or beliefs. I've heard many preachers casting Muslims out of the fold, out of any possibility of salvation, out of any ability to understand truth, any ability to have any revelation,

from God because they tend to collectivize Muslims based on academic knowledge and not based on real experience. Well, it's true, many Muslims are trying to convert other Christians and they might not want to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. There is a lot of heart changes within people that are unobservable. And there are many Muslims out there who go to shrines that have Christian priests conduct exorcisms on them when Islamic practices don't work. We have so much in common with the spiritual forces that are trying to attack us. And if we were to ask a Muslim friend, they might actually pray for you.

And there are some different movements out there, different nonprofits that are working to do these kinds of things together, to pray together in one spirit. Ah, but what is that spirit? That is the final jeopardy question. The type of dialogue the doctor is referencing has been undertaken by the Catholic Church now for decades. During Vatican 2, the Catholic Church issued the seminal document, Nosra Attae, translated to In Our Time, which issued its positions on non-Christian religions. With regards to Muslims, the document stated, The church regards with esteem, also the Muslims.

They adore the one God, living and subsisting in himself, merciful and all-powerful, the creator of heaven and earth, who has spoken to men, they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even his inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, his virgin mother, and at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God, especially through prayer, alms giving, and fasting.

Pope John Paul II, in line with this proclamation, made a point to visit several majority in Muslim nations as a token of goodwill and to try and push for better relations among Muslims and Christians. While the theological differences are substantial, and to be sure, they are two different religions entirely, it is encouraging to see the largest religions in the world seeking to find common points of understanding as they live out their respective faiths in a spirit of peace and cooperation. There is a widely shared tradition of gathering knowledge and learning about God that I think we should at least learn to appreciate. Building religious literacy is key to understanding the nuances in experience and in knowledge of the Muslim world. Well, I'm sure that was a bit of a detour from what you normally expect.

but hey, it's an exorcism show. We've got to keep you guessing, right? For the record, Father Martins doesn't ever punch anyone during exorcisms. Our hope is that at least you learn something today. And if you see a lamp in a cave, in the desert, and a blue spirit comes out of it, do not engage. Ask Jesus to take care of it instead. Thanks for listening, folks.

And we are now another episode closer to the coming of the incredible season two dramatic reenactments. Soon, my friends. soon. Thanks for listening. To keep in touch with us and get some of our anointed merchandise, you can visit our website at exorcistfiles.tv. You can also email us absurd and overly specific criticisms at exorcist files at gmail.com. All cases in the Exorcist Files are recounted by Father Carlos Martens from his personal archives. While this episode didn't have any 3D binaral drama, it still takes a lot of work in research. The series is hosted by Father Martins and myself, Ryan Biffey. Today, we want to give a very good.

very big thank you to Dr. Chris Prejean for joining us. You can find him at chrisprison. It takes a legion of people to make the show possible. So thank you to our sound designer, editor and mixers, Dan Blessinger, and Michelle Martinez. Music and scoring by Jim Cavell, research, writing, and script doctrine was done by Ryan Bethay, Christoph Ayers, and our newest member of the team, Caleb Starr. Executive producers are Carlos Martins and Ryan Bithay.