The Exorcist Files - Demonic Limitations, Guardian Angels and The Gifts of the Spirit

Episode Date: July 12, 2024

Father Martins joins us to answer some burning questions about guardian angels in exorcisms, the gifts of the Spirit, and the limitations of the demonic mind. A special thank you to our sponsors. https://Exodus90.com/exfiles - The ultimate men's spiritual formation curriculum. Join Father Martins as he co-hosts this year's fraternity as they observe St. Michael's Lent together. FountofGrace.com- custom and handcrafted medals and fine Catholic Jewelry. Use promo code EXFILES for $15 off your order. For the latest information on the Kickstarter rewards and timelines visit exorcistfiles.tv See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Do you crave more Exorcist Files content? Do you want to go deeper into theology and spiritual warfare? Well, you're going to want to subscribe to The Vault, our new premium subscriber program. The Vault is our way of ensuring we bring you content all year long. Subscribers will get access to exclusive once a month, Ask Me Anything episodes with Father Martins, where you can submit questions and vote on the ones you want him to answer most. You'll also get access to a very special case behind the case series,

where we relisten to past episodes and cases, and father reflects back on insights and anecdotes he just didn't have time to get into in the podcast. To subscribe, head on over to exorcistfiles.tv and sign up. Or just click the link in the show notes. Again, that's exorcistfiles.tv to get access to the vault. Welcome back to the Exorcist Files. Another special episode with the one and the only father Carlos Martins

is here with us in the studio. Our advanced GPS tracking technology has managed to locate the man. Father, can you disclose where you are currently located in the United States? I am currently in a hotel room in Chino, California, on a very warm evening. Toasty as it is, but obviously as an exorcist, he is no stranger to warm environments battling our infernal opponent. Father, do you know why this episode is more special than all the other special episodes? Well, because this is the final episode before we launch season two.

That is correct. Season two is finally upon us. I kept feeling like I had to equate season two to the kingdom of God, that it was here but not now, right? That it was evidence. And like the early apostles, we thought it was a lot closer than it actually was. But perhaps the scripture spoke prophetically, right, Father? that ye know not the hour nor the day that season two would drop, and yet it arrived like a thief in the night.

It's actually coming. I don't know if it's arrived like a thief in the night, but it's arrived. And, well, technically speaking, it's not even here yet. There's this episode, and then the first drop of season two follows afterwards. Bottom line, how excited are you? And tell the fans a little bit, maybe tell them a little bit about what they can expect from this new season. It's similar, of course. we're going to have lots of demonic opponents vanquished,

but it's also different in some ways. You've heard now probably a few, maybe roughly almost half the episodes of the new season. What can the fans expect? Well, season two, we go deeper, deeper into the process of liberation, deeper into the mind of the devil or what makes the devil tick. And we go deeper into the whole notion of what is deliverance

And what does it mean to be delivered, to be free of the devil? And conversely, what does it mean to be unfree? Very good. Yeah. And, of course, the music, fantastic. Our composer did a wonderful job. And Father, I think you'd agree, the sound design in this one is really top. It's a whole different way of recording.

And it sounds, in fact, tell the fans, you were driving and listening to an episode, and you actually had to do a double take, right? I did. I was driving. And I had my earphones on and I was listening to a draft. And our sound engineer weaved in some sound effects that sounded like they could be the sound of a car or a truck next to me really loud. And so it made me jump. It made me think, did I veer into the lane of an oncoming truck?

So it's really effective. Well, we're very excited. And thank you all supporters for making. this happen. We couldn't have done it without you. We're so grateful. And so to honor you all, before we go into season two, we wanted to give you another Q&A round because though we get thousands of emails, we do try to get to as many of them as we can. We've gotten a lot of cool questions that have come in recently. And father's going to take a crack at the mailbag here. So why don't we get into some questions here? And this is actually a question for me, because being the co-host,

so I can move my questions right to the top. This is more a request, but, Father, you shared a really moving Facebook post about a woman who has accompanied you on, as visited, I should say, the exhibits across the country with you. And it was a very inspiring story. Could you tell some of the listeners a little bit about this woman and her pilgrimage with St. Jude? Yeah, this is Teresa Torres or Tess. She goes by Tess.

And Tess came to 71 straight expositions of St. Jude. She started with an exposition at St. Mark's Church in San Antonio, Texas, and then followed the tour all throughout Texas, Texas, New Mexico, and then Arizona and California. And faithfully, every day she would show up. And of course, obviously, I would get to know her. and what I discovered would she say the reason why she was coming is her nephew, Mark, had come down with cancer. And so she was coming sacrificial for him as an act of penance invoking the intercession of St. Jude.

And so she would arrive every day in the morning and faithfully stand in line with the other pilgrims. And, you know, some days the line has consists of many thousands. and she would not allow me to pull her out of line and give her an advanced place within the church, even, you know, just a pew in the church, even though by the end of the day she was helping the tour every day. She was helping as a volunteer. But she wanted to undertake that penance for the sake of her nephew. And so dutifully, faithfully, even in some days, the temperature was well over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. And, you know, so we're talking temperatures that would be around 40 degrees Celsius, which are just burning warm, she would faithfully stand in the sun,

and she is not a young person. And I, on more than one occasion, I saw her trembling just from the agony that her body was under because of the physical exertion that she was putting herself in, all for the sake, out of love for her nephew Mark. It was really a beautiful thing to see. And unfortunately, Mark passed four days ago. and it was not the answer that any of us wanted. It was not the outcome that any of us wanted, but the Lord has spoken. All of us, Tess, her family, Mark's family, his pure fiancé, Amber, all were pouring out their prayers in supplication to God, asking, begging for a miracle for him, whether that miracle would come, you know, in the form of like a classic supernatural miracle,

or whether it would come through medical science, through the natural means of the medical knowledge that the doctors possessed, but unfortunately that it was not the case. And so the family is grieving, but they're not despondent. They accepted it as God's will. And the following day,

his entire family attended the exposition, the next exposition with St. Jude, and Tess was there, so she missed exposition number 72, but 73, she was there, along with everybody else, the attended mass in the evening and continued to implore the Lord for Mark's sake, but also just in gratitude for the graces that the Lord showed him. And he died a very peaceful death surrounded by people who loved him, and he felt that love. And you could

see that he did. So he died just beautifully. And so, you know, I hope my death is half as beautiful as his. Yeah, Father, it sort of brings up images of King David, right, seeking the Lord to save the life of his son that was conceived of Beshiba. And then he sought the Lord diligently and fasted and prayed. And then the child died. And then right away, he got up and put on his clothes and went right back out and basically bless the Lord. It was very inspiring that they were right back at the exhibit afterwards, yeah. And she was joyful. Every day when she arrives, she comes, says hello, gives me a great big hug and takes a picture with me. And she is faithfully doing God's will. She is faithfully pouring out her, the energy that God has given her for the sake of good. You know, Mark benefited from her incredible devotion. And I have no doubt that while we didn't get the outcome that we wanted, I have no doubt that it had a great effect on his soul. soul. And the piece with which he died, I wasn't there when he died, but they told it to me. The

peace that he had that he exhibited when he died was something truly beautiful to behold. Well, thanks for Sharon. All right, let's get to some questions here. Father, this question came from a listener in Louisiana. If you had to guess, how do demons know what they can and cannot do? When we see in Job, Satan asking for permission to afflict Job, or the gospel's account of Jesus telling Peter that Satan had asked to sift him. Is there a constant asking, if you will, from these demons? What do you think is going on with demons' permissions and their knowledge of what they can and cannot do? Yeah, a really good question.

So, look, demons are always under a leash. We call the devil the prince of this world. And he earned that title when he got Adam to forfeit his birthright, because that title was Adams. Adam was the prince. He was the Lord of the world. He was given that by God himself. And when he surrendered that,

the devil became the Lord of this world. But nevertheless, God is God, and he has never surrendered his sovereignty as God. So for the devil to do anything that is extraordinary, for the devil to do anything that is any kind of a harassment,

any kind of an affliction against us, a torment, even a temptation, he has to obtain the permission of God. So he has constantly held on a leash. When the devil comes close, when he is able to act extraordinarily, it is because God has permitted that to happen. So he's loosened up the leash, so to speak. The question is, well, heavens, why would God do that? Well, at the end of the day, only God knows, but the general principle is because in doing so, God is able to bring forth greater good yet. So that aspect of God can scandalize some people, right? And this is a question that has been pondered over by theologians time and time over. You know, why does God permit evil in the world? Well, it was St. Augustine that came up with the original answer. He

permits evil in order to bring forth greater good. Now, the fall of Adam brought about pain, death, sickness. It brought about a tremendous amount of evil into the world, and it ushered in a completely different way of living for humans, a different way of dying. I mean, we didn't die before. So the fact that death is there now is something radically new. It's painful. It's traumatic. It's horrific. Why would God permit such a thing? Well, among other things, look what it brought forth. It brought forth a Messiah.

It brought forth God incarnate as the Savior of the world, who suffered and died on the cross, showing us, exhibiting us, the profound depth of his love. Because it takes, it's radical love that would do that. It's a radical sacrificial love, a radical, unlawful. a radical unselfish desire for another's good, even unto the horrific pain and torture of myself. And this is what God has undertaken. So God permitted that evil to take place in the Garden of Eden, but look at the tremendous good that has come about through Christ.

And then all of the saints who have patterned their lives after Christ and now continue his work of salvation. And say, Paul says in scripture, I make up what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ. In other words, what Paul is saying is Christ on the cross did not fulfill all suffering, that there is a portion left for you and for me, for the devoted Christian, to aid Christ in his salvific presence in the world. And that is a tremendously beautiful thing, that God has made us partners in the work of salvation. And then just to put, a bow on it. So basically, demons then are, would you say that they are always aware of their limitations and then constantly trying to, like, is there, I know their concept of time is

different, obviously, because they exist outside of time, but are they well aware of their limitations and then constantly just trying to find a loophole, if you will, to afflict humanity? They're very aware of their limitations. Now, what is going on in their minds cognitively? Are they aware of every single limitation? Are they constantly trying, quote unquote, to open doors to see whether they are locked to them or unlocked? That I don't know. I mean, one would have to enter into the experience of the demons. And even if a demon had told me something like that in the course of an exorcism, I just, I wouldn't believe him. Like that kind of stuff usually goes in one of my ears and then out the other. Because a demon doesn't have to be truthful about that kind of stuff.

And I'm very conscious about not collecting information that demons freely offer in that regard. Why? Because they can use that knowledge to tantalize us, to give us a kind of false sense of security that we know what's going on. And, you know, what we know is what comes through revelation, what comes through the mind of the church, that gives us a, revelation gives us certain knowledge. What comes through the mind of the church gives us really good probable knowledge. Everything else is really shaky,

so I just, I pay no regard to that. So, and obviously we can conclude that if Satan is asking Jesus to sift Peter, we know at least that Satan is aware of his limitations and is somehow asking for permissions to be able to afflict Peter or, or the opportunity to do something there and is recognizing that even in the rebellion,

they recognize God's sovereignty over them, right? You bet. Even in their rebellion, they recognize the sovereignty of God. When Christ says to Peter, behold, Satan has asked to lay hold of all of you to sift you all like wheat, but I've prayed for you, Peter, that your faith will not fail.

And when you're strong, strengthen the others. Now, so that answer certainly seems to imply that Christ, that God has decided to permit the devil to sift the apostles like wheat, to shake them, to shake their faith. And we certainly see this in the fact that they all scattered during the time of the arrest. Now, and only John was brave enough to stand there at the foot of the cross at the crucifixion. But we have here this guarantee that at the end of the day, the devil is not going to triumph. And in fact, I guarantee you, Peter, that you're going to overcome this, that you're going to surpass this. We also, I wouldn't call it a cooperation, obviously, but I think about Jesus in the wilderness. And the scripture says, the spirit led Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

So there's some interplay that is going on there that is probably beyond our salaries and pay grade to understand. But there's some, I don't want to call it, would you call it dialogue that's gone going there? Well, there certainly is an interplay and an interaction between the devil and the Lord. The devil and God. That is constantly happening. Scripture says that in more than one place. And it's not just one-sided. It's not just the devil coming to God.

saying, hey, look, I want to do this, do I have your permission? But you have also in that passage, like you just said, in your translation it says the spirit led him into the desert to be tempted by the devil. The word used in Greek is stronger than just merely led. It's, in the translation I have, the spirit drove him into the desert to be tempted by the devil. So there's a kind of, it's much more forceful than leading. It's, I want you to do this, and this is going to happen now. But does your translation have cool pictures, like my Protestant Bible?

Nope. I'll take the text over pictures. Text or revelation pictures or not. Are you accusing me of solo pictura? Well, if the Bible edition fits. I know. Fathers pointed out that my Bible, I paid full price, but I'm missing. sing a bunch of books. Is that right, Father?

You certainly are. Thank you. That was fun. I'm glad we got into that. Whoever asked that, you got a lot more bang for your buck there. Father Martins, we got this question. You have described necromancy as a sin, and to be fair, the scriptures are very clear that's a sin, not just father. But necromancy is a sin against the First Commandment because it's trying to gain secret knowledge or power from God's natural world. If so, then why wouldn't science also be evil per se because we're gaining secrets from God's creation. For example, we make x-ray machines that can gain hidden information from inside our bodies or microwave ovens to quickly cook food with a mysterious invisible force. Where do we draw the line about discerning knowledge of our environments?

Well, look, we are rational creatures and God endowed us with intellects that desire to know. to use our intellects in the process of inquiry is not sinful. It's simply making use of a gift that God gave us. Generally speaking, seeking knowledge is a good thing. However, there are types of knowledge that we have no right to know. For example, a conversation between a lawyer and his client is highly confidential. It's a private conversation, and it's not just immoral. it's illegal to try to intercept that conversation and be part of it.

The same with, say, the military secrets of a nation. So there are some types of knowledge that are just off limits. But what separates legitimate intellectual inquiry from occultism is that what is in the occult is in a realm that is forbidden in and of itself. If you look up the word occult in any dictionary, it's going to have the following elements. The occult is that knowledge which is secret and hidden, lying beyond the range of the ordinary. And it's often considered supernaturally derived, right? So you're leaving the realm of the natural and entering into the realm that we call the preternatural.

So it's probably best to understand these three realms put, side by side. So when we're talking about the natural, we're talking about the material order. When we're talking about the preternatural, we're talking about the realm of the angels, the realm of the spirits, right? Spirits apart from God. Now that's made up of both good spirits and evil spirits. And then the supernatural realm, well, well, there's only one thing that is supernatural, and that's God himself. So when we leave the natural and enter into the occult, we're going into a realm where we're trying to usurp the natural limits that God has placed on human knowing. We're trying to get into a place where we're trying to manipulate the order that is through the agency of demons,

because at the end of the day, that's what's happening, to try to derive knowledge about things which are restricted to us. the natural and the pre-tra-natural are not related at all. When we practice science, all of that is within the realm of the natural. We're using natural human knowing to examine the secrets of nature in a way that is moral and it doesn't involve anything spiritual. It's just involving an application of the mind, an application of the sciences that man has discovered and it's a wonderful thing. The church lods that. It's given us great advancements in human living. But when we leave the realm of the natural and enter into through occultism, the preacher natural,

we're bargaining, we're trying to gain knowledge about future events. We're trying to gain knowledge about hidden events that are not normally available to the human intellect. Now we're sitting. And the Bible is very clear that type of, of knowledge is not to be pursued. It also probably presents a lot of gray area cases too, right, where I could see, for example, scientists have been really laboring and endeavoring to find a fountain of youth, and they've made some advances. They know that they can lengthen telomeres, and, well, I don't think it's probably going

to be possible, but, you know, for example, if science was able to find a way to indefinitely extend one's life, where natural aging was removed, for example, would that fall under sinful science? And maybe another one on top of that is, you know, there are technologies now where people can actually use genetic splicing to remove diseases that were genetic diseases that could be corrected. And I've heard Christians on both sides say, at one hand, it's a gift from God that we could now cure these things through medicine on others.

It's like, well, you know, if that was part of the genetic makeup, are we tampering with God's natural design for us? So maybe could you give us any thoughts on when it comes to maybe some of those grayer areas where, you know, we're dealing with some of the natural preset templates that God put on humans? Yeah. So certainly that's a different question. That's on a different order than occultism because within this, insofar as I know, there certainly isn't anything occultic in that genetic manipulation.

I mean, or if there is, it's certainly not obvious to me. whether that is in fact moral or not, that's a different question. And I don't think I'm in a position to give an answer for that, a general answer, without knowing greater detail as to what exactly is being manipulated. If, I mean, there are certain things that are ipso facto immoral to splice genetic material from a human embryo with the genetic material of an animal is absolutely immoral, right? It's beneath the dignity of a human person. So that one is certainly easy. Where we're getting into medical ethics here, I just don't think without knowing, I don't think without knowing more information about a specific case that I could give an answer

for that. Science does sometimes tend to give us really unique abilities that can be gray at times. You know, to have a gun is a wonderful thing. You can use it to feed your family. You can can use it to protect yourself against wild animals, against criminals, and so forth, but you can also use it to commit crimes. So also comes the possibility that the gift will be misused. And, you know, so all of these things have to be looked at soberly. It is very possible to misuse a gift. And then all of a sudden, we're taking something that God has given for our good and making an evil out of it. And that's been true of Scripture even.

Scripture has been used as a weapon as well. So it seems no good gift is immune from abuse by humanity. So great point. All right. So basically we'll have to do an episode. We're going to have to find a bioethicist to come on and walk us through the latest technologies of the day and see if we can.

We'll solve all your moral dilemmas on another episode, folks. All right. Let's take a look at our next one here. Father, have you ever heard of a demon specifically referencing a guardian angel during an exorcism, and if not, referencing just an angel in general. I've heard a demon making a reference to a victim's guardian angel. And if I recall correctly, it was a remark of disdain about him, something to the effect that he won't be able to help the victim now. So the demon is stating to us, to me and to the team, and if I recall,

correctly, somebody may have invoked set of prayer invoking the intercession, the intervention of the victim's guardian angel. But what's interesting is then that the demon himself makes a reference to the fact, well, that's futile and that's going to be useless. The very fact that he does that implies the opposite. Because there's many times where demons don't make any remarks, any comments. But if they do, play close attention because they're trying to manipulate you. They're trying to get you to stop what you're doing. And so the very fact that he chose to stop what he was doing, stop his belligerents, stop his cunning and stop the violent episode that he was doing, and make a reference to that. Well, guess what? Let's keep going. Let's keep invoking this guardian angel.

You know, one thing I'd like to mention about Guardian Angels, now that we're on the topic, is that there's a trend today to name one's Guardian Angel. And we see this all over the place, all over the Internet, and people are practicing this. There's even companies now that supply metals where you can write in the name of your Guardian Angel. And so what people need to be aware is that such a practice is forbidden because it's moral. So in the directory on popular piety in the liturgy, section 216, so this is under the heading about devotion to the Holy Angels, it says, quote, the practice of assigning names to the Holy Angels should be discouraged, except in the case of Gabriel, Raphael, and Michael, whose names are

contained in Holy Scripture. Those are the only three angels that are named. So, Even worse than assigning a name to one's guardian angel is the practice of trying to discover his actual name. Why? Because by definition, such an enterprise is an act of occultism. One is trying to usurp for himself something that God has placed beyond his limits. So if God wanted us to know, if God wanted you to know the name of your guardian angel, He would have told you. He would have told all of us, but he hasn't. And so that's a realm where we shouldn't go. We should acknowledge our guardian angel. We should cultivate a devotion to our guardian angel, but we shouldn't assign a name, nor should we go and pursue the name of that angel.

And besides, there can be a great advantage in not knowing his name because it can foster an awe of his person within us. So while it's good to cultivate a devotion to our guardian angel, his name is meant to remain mysterious, along with so many aspects of him, right? He is a personal being, but his personality is closed to us. And so we have to respect that. This is a limit that God has predetermined. All right. So don't go asking for names, folks. And Father, you have two guardian angels, I think according to tradition. So that would be two names you don't need to know. That's correct.

Okay. Father, have you ever received a very specific word of knowledge from God outside an exorcism? We do reference in season one, a case in episode five, where you felt the Lord gave you an insight into a demon's purpose. That demon was part of the heralding of Christ. But in your own life, do you rely on private revelation? And also, is there a consensus on the... the 1 Corinthians 14 gifts of the Spirit in the Catholic tradition.

Obviously, in Protestant denomination, there are cessationist groups that believe, you know, the gifts for the most part have died out, and then there's very charismatic. I know in the Catholic Church, there are varying levels of charismatic belief as far as the gifts. But in your own private life, do you rely on private revelation that God gives you? And then what is the Catholic reading on 1 Corinthians 14 and Paul's gifts of the Spirit outlined there? So I absolutely rely on private revelation. Look, I'm a Christian, and that means I believe I'm a son of God. And I have a relationship with my God. And my God is my father, he is my Savior, and he's my sanctifier. And I believe that he has spoken universally, generally, through the public revelation that he has given to the church. And that revelation is there. And that revelation is there. for my use, it's there to serve me to get closer to him. However, I also believe that he speaks to me personally whenever he chooses, and I do cultivate a relationship to God, and I listen to

him. So, look, I'm a convert from atheism. I had an experience in front of the Eucharist, a personal revelation, and that occurred in 1996, and that was very specific, and that experience had characteristics that I could name now. This was not nothing. It was not just a thought that came to me, like a kind of an intellectual insight that I discovered of my own accord, of my own will, of my own work.

It was a revelation, a personal one given to me in the midst of this retreat where God kind of presented himself and presented his person and opened himself up to a relationship. with me. I also, I mean, every morning, in my prayers, I ask the Lord for a word for the day. Sometimes I hear a word clearly. Sometimes it comes through reading the scriptures in that time of prayer. Sometimes it just comes as a personal word or an image. An image is also, quote unquote,

a word from God. It's an act of communication. My call to the priesthood came on a retreat and it had very specific words that there were there was something very specific that god said to me so i absolutely believe in personal revelation as well and it occurs as often as god desires it i give god a daily invitation to speak to me and i would i like to think that i am ready to act with my whole being on it if i think and perceive that something is of god i'm ready to move not and nothing will slow me down. Nothing will stand in the way of that. So with regard to God speaking to his people individually, I think that absolutely happens. The saints talk about this left and right. Holy people talk about this. And, you know, what distinguishes an act of communication from God,

a personal revelation from just an act of the imagination? Well, when you look at people, when God speaks, it empowers, and it changes people's lives. Like, they're ready to move. And people aren't ready to move. They're not ready to change their lives. They're not ready to face a great danger or evil, merely through a simple thought of the imagination or a movement of the imagination. That doesn't give people the power to undertake great obstacle.

But a word from the Lord does, right? I mean, look at St. Joan of Arc. She commanded the French force. forces. And that's, I mean, that's not nothing. That would take great courage. And the word that God spoke to her gave her that courage to undertake such an incredible feat. So to answer the question about, is there a consensus on 1st Corinthians 14, on Paul when he talks about the gift of the spirit, the gifts of the spirit in Catholicism? Well, there's absolutely a consensus. in that they exist. It's clearly outlined in 1 Corinthians 14. So there is a gift of prophecy,

there's a gift of knowledge, there's a gift of wisdom and so forth. When I read that chapter, I don't believe that he's giving an exhaustive list. I think, in other words, there are many unnamed gifts, but the point is what Paul is outlining is what makes a gift, a Corinthian gift, is the fact that the Holy Spirit uses an individual to accomplish his purpose. And this is not the individual accomplishing that purpose. If you have the gift of prophecy and you act in that gift, it's not you that is producing the prophecy. It's the Holy Spirit.

He's using you as a conduit to deliver that gift. So this absolutely exists in the church. Now, is there a consensus on the form of it? Is there always a proper cultivation or appreciation of that? Well, no, heaven's no, because we, every human society, including the church has its own level of brokenness. And frankly, it's sometimes difficult to know when to use a Corinthian gift or to discern a Corinthian gift is if something is coming from the spirit when it comes into conflict with,

say, the institutional church. And this conflict has been there from the beginning. And the very fact that Paul wrote his letter to the Corinthians, in fact, he wrote three of them. We possess two of them. but the second one references another letter that we don't possess that has been lost to history. And the whole point of that community is the community at Corinth, the Holy Spirit swooped down in a powerful way and started to act in that community in a profound way.

And so what they discovered is that the Corinthian gifts were operative within them, even when they weren't in the state of grace, when they were sinning, when they were sleeping with one another's wives, when they were fornicating, and yet they discovered that they could still speak in tongues. They discovered they could still have a word for somebody. And so the thing to understand about the Corinthian gifts is that, A, they're not given for the individual, they're given for the church. They're given for the buildup of the church.

So one doesn't become holier because one has a Corinthian gift, and one gains no personal advantage because they can't be manipulated. it. They're a gift given for others. When one acts according to his gift, that experience is life-giving. The second thing that is part and part, the second criteria that is part and parcel with a gift, is that the church itself, i.e. the community, i.e. others, say, you know what, when you act like this, when you do this, I sense God in that. When you speak. I hear the word of God in your voice. When you play music, it brings me closer to God, always,

even if you're playing even just a secular tune. There's a way in which the Holy Spirit is moving in the person who has the gift that has an infallible effect. The gift is operative. The gift is received. It touches people. It accomplishes the end for which it is sent. but the gift holder is not doesn't benefit at all through that enterprise right so so that's the humble

check and balance of that so Corinth is railed upon by Paul after he says to them look your gifts are legitimate they're good and and they're useful for the buildup of the church however they don't replace morality and you are not free to engage in your own morality and make up your own rules and just say, you know what, I don't need the institutional church anymore with its precepts and rules. We can just do our own thing because we're anointed. You're anointed. You can be in the state of grave sin, and meaning that eternally you are one of the damned, and yet the Holy Spirit can still act through you. And it doesn't do you personally a lick of good. That good is accomplished by virtue of your baptism, which is the benefits of which are closed to you,

but they're not closed to the church. They continue to give life through the church, even though you yourself are one of the damned. This is the message of Paul. And he repeats it in Second Corinthians, and in that third letter that we don't have, and then it's even repeated in Pope St. Clement's letter to the Corinthians. Long after Paul is gone,

the community at Corinth, by this time, the tension was still there, between the charismatic gifts, the Corinthian gifts, and the institutional church. And what happened at this time is the community was sent a couple of presbyters, a couple of priests, and the community at Corinth, and we have to understand the community at Corinth was the largest of the Christian communities in the ancient church. It's bigger than the community at Ephesus, bigger than the community at Jerusalem and so forth. So when we get to St. Clement's letter to Corinthians. It's given because this community physically picked up these two priests, and they took

them to the edge of town and just dropped them there. You said, you know what, guys, we don't need you. So just stay away. And so the Pope in Rome fires off this letter to Corinth, which is essentially Greece, right? I mean, it's a heck of a journey away. And it was this letter that resolved everything. Why? Because there are no other further letters to the Corinthians. The matter is resolved. And so that letter by Pope St. Clement is also an example for Catholics. We have always held that up as an example of papal primacy. So the Pope is writing a letter to the church in Greece, a church that pertains, the Church of Corinth pertained to the Church in Greece. It fell under its jurisdiction. And yet it was the Pope. that was being consulted. And he handed down his decision and he sent an envoy to enforce that decision

and to make sure that decision was followed through. So in the ancient world, we have seen in the Catholic Church has always seen in the letter of St. Clement, an example of papal primacy where the other churches respected the ultimate decision of the Bishop of Rule. Okay. So in short, obviously with the reformers in the Protestant circles, there was this argument that the gifts were only necessary for the spread of the gospel and that somehow these gifts faded away and made way when the scriptures come. I've never found that convincing. But to be sure, in the Catholic Church, the cessationist argument is not present, right? Does the church teach that the gifts of prophecy in tongues, et cetera? Do they continue to this day? Oh, absolutely they do. Yeah, I pray in tongues during exorcisms. The demons hate it. So, you know, we don't have a cessationist movement, which to be clear to the listeners, is a movement that originated within some Protestant sects that sought to eliminate the notion that God acts through his people in the way that Paul outlines in 1 Corinthians 14, that there are no such thing as, charismatic gifts today. They were given on early in the church to kind of jumpstart thing. And this is just absolutely false. This is absurd. And frankly, cessationism was a movement of reaction against

Catholicism to eliminate the possibility of miracles and the miraculous. So, you know, it's part of that aspect of the Protestant revolt that was a revolt in the truest sense of the word. It was going against something that forms part of the very foundation of Catholicism and orthodoxy for that matter because, I mean, look, when you're talking about the two churches of Catholicism and orthodoxy, we're talking about two lungs of the church. What is true of one is absolutely true of the other, right? We both have the sacraments, and we have the sacraments because we both have a valid priesthood. We have a origin in that regard. We both believe in miracles. We both believe in the hyper devotion that is due, hyper meaning exalted devotion that is due to the mother of God over all the other saints.

We both subscribe to that. So in those fundamentals, we are identical. We are identical. The whole question involves primacy, which we're not in, well, God has, hasn't given the grace of full communion yet for that. But in the essentials, we are absolutely in communion. Okay. We are down to, I believe, our final question of the mailback. We've covered angels and demons and, well, that's pretty normal for our show. So, all right, full disclosure. This next question, we've actually gotten this from a few different people, but because this touches on something that a sponsor actually sells on our show, we have a new sponsor They're called Fount of Grace, and they provide really awesome and really high-end Catholic jewelry,

medals, rosaries, et cetera. So I want to give a full disclaimer that they are a sponsor. But we have actually had quite a few emails come in asking about St. Benedict medals, miraculous medals, and, again, just more just the idea of certain objects being used with efficacy and deliverance ministry and prayer. So I thought, Father, you could answer a little bit, especially for the Protestant listeners, too. What is the St. Benedict Medal specifically? And why is it used? I actually was reading Father Gabriel Morth's memoir, and he just offhandedly mentioned that medals were quite effective in his ministry. Could you give us a little overview of that? So look, I've worn medals from the time of my conversion. They give me a sense of peace because they're blessed, and for that reason, they are holy.

their very presence is repugnant to evil. Medals are included in what we call sacramentals, objects or actions that have become holy through a blessing of the church, through an action of the church. Sacramentals are to be contrasted with the sacraments of which there are seven, right? So we have baptism, the Eucharist, confirmation, marriage, holy orders, anointing of the sick, and reconciliation. So the seven sacraments are the seven ways Jesus Christ left to heal the world. They convey sacramental grace, which is the highest grace that the church dispenses, and it dispenses them in the sacraments. So they are the very life of God.

The very life of God is received through the sacraments. Okay. But then we have the sacramentals, which are not instituted by Christ, like the sacraments are. They're instituted by the church. But their purpose is to dispose us to grace, to provide protection, and to help form us. So how does it do this? Well, when you wear a medal, like when I wear a medal of a particular saint that I have a devotion to, like, for example, the miraculous medal.

Well, I'm wearing a medal that is a constant reminder to me of my devotion to our lady. Now, that reminder is more than just a head knowledge. Oh, yeah, yeah, I got to remind myself. Oh, yeah, why am I wearing this around? Oh, yeah, yeah, it's to remind me that I need to be devoted to our lady. It's not as simple as that. It's when we love somebody, we want part of them with us constantly, right? grandparents have pictures of their grandkids in their wallets. I mean, now they have them in their

phones and they're ready, like, gosh, it's countless numbers of times have grandparents pulled out their phones to show me the picture of their grandkids and to tell me about something special about them. So it's not just, it's more, it's important to them to not just tell me something special about them, but they want to show me what they look like. That's how humans are wired. We want a tangible reminder, a tangible presence of the one whom we love with us. And so that's why we wear metals. Now, there's also the aspect of protection. The miraculous metal was revealed by our lady to St. Catherine Labrere. And on this, on that medal, is a depiction of our lady with the serpent under her foot. Now, in Genesis, we're told Christ is going to crush his head, which he

does, but Christ himself was launched, so to speak, in salvation history by Our Lady. So there's the efficient cause of Christ's coming is depicted in that medal, with Our Lady having the demon's head under her foot. So that depiction is in and of itself exorcistic because it's repugnant to the devil. And the miraculous metal, that very name was not the original name of the metal. It's the medal of the Immaculate Conception. That's the original true name of the metal. But it became known as the miraculous metal because all of the miracles that became associated with it. For the people who wore it, there was an abundance of miracles that came through. Moving on now to the St. Benedict Medal, you know, St. Benedict had many encounters with the devil.

at one point, he was poisoned, and he drew a sign of the cross over the chalice, the goblet, which was filled with poison, and it broke, spilling the poison onto the floor. So that poisonous chalice was given to him clandestinely. I mean, it was in a moment of light that he became aware. Is there something wrong with this? He traced the sign of the cross and poof. So Benedict had great power over the demon. And so the St. Benedict medal, which depicts him, is a metal that is exorcistic.

It invokes the exorcistic dimension of St. Benedict. And the church has acknowledged this. That metal is among the most favored, the most exalted metals that the church has, along with the miraculous metal. it is a metal that is worn specifically for protection. I mean, some folks, I'm sure, they wear it out of an act of devotion to being close to St. Benedict. But by and large, the vast majority of Catholics who wear it do so for its exorcistic import. It's written on the medal itself, surrounding the back of the metal,

are a series of letters, which refer to an act of dialogue, which refer to a command that St. Benedict gave the devil. Begone, Satan, never tempt me with your vanities. What you offer me is evil. Drink your own poison. Sacramentals aren't superstitions. They're not substitutes for prayer or for a relationship with God or the saints. They are a way to live out that prayer tangibly, a way to live out that relationship, because there's parts of us that long for the tangible presence of the one who we love upon our own persons.

And Fount of Grace sent you some nice items. What did they send you? Yeah, they sent me some of the metals that they use, and their metals are a very fine quality. they use precious metals in them. And, you know, so why would that be important? Because when something is made out of silver, when something is made out of gold,

it endures the test of time. It doesn't corrode. And there's a longevity in it. You know, certainly when we wear an inexpensive metal, that metal is going to wear out. And it's going to wear out very quickly relative to the longevity of something which has some craft. craftsmanship, both in the materials and in the artistry. And Fount of Grace makes a really high-quality

product. Awesome. Yep. So folks, if that interest you, you can go to Fount ofgrace.com and you can check out their stuff. But I think that is all the time we have. We got to get Father back out on the road because he is continuing on the St. Jude armed and dangerous tour. Miracles coming to a cathedral near you. Father, thank you so much. And the next time, we talk, it will be in the throes of season two and what I consider to be a particularly chilling opener. We're excited to launch this and thank you everyone for your patience. And Father, stay safe out there and stay issue free with whatever automobile you end up with. Praise God, we certainly will try.