The Exorcist Files - Father Martins Reopens Our Most Unpopular Case: Predatory

Episode Date: April 28, 2026

When we released Predatory in 2024, it drew a lot of criticism. Why would we include an episode where it didn't end well? The short answer is because it unfortunately proves the rule more than the exception. Many cases do not end well. Sin is intoxicating and hard to give up. For Dylan, he wanted the benefits of God without the relationship, and that wasn't going to work for Father Martins. In this revisit of the case file, Father Martins breaks down a very complex case and the bizarre psychological elements. How could a demon manipulate people into lust? Why would God permit that? Why did the demon remain dormant for so long before finally unleashing its attack on Dylan? Father Martins breaks down what dynamics are at play. Trigger Warning: This case file may be triggering to some listeners given the theme of sexual assault that is discussed. Listener discretion is advised. Wild Alaskan Co- Get $35 off your first box of wild-caught, sustainable seafood—delivered right to your door. Go to: https://www.wildalaskan.com/EXFILESRunewood Rosary Co- Get 15% off your order when you use promo code EXFILES at RunewoodRosary.comField of Greens- Get the University Study and 20% off your order at FOGCHICKS.com. Use promo code EXFILESRyan Bethea Show- Follow Ryan's work HereSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey friends, Father Martins here. Before we begin the show, I want to say thank you. We've been doing the show for three years now, and it has been a true privilege and joy. I'm continually amazed at what God is doing through this work. Every week, we've received messages from listeners who have come to Christ, return to faith, or found freedom through the stories and teachings we share. Just last week, someone wrote to tell us he went back to confession after decades of being away. That's the kind of grace we're witnessing. And it's humbling.

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or simply click the link in the show notes. blessings to you all. Welcome back to The Exorcist Files. I am your co-host. You love second most, and with me is the Padre with the Heavenly Cadre. I think two guardian angels, this tradition does suggest for you, just one for me. So that may be because, but who knows, maybe I need more help than that. Father, Carlos Martins, joining me today.

Hello, Father. How are we doing? I'm doing great. Yeah, good to be here, Ryan. Awesome. Well, for those watching, you'll notice it is a little darker and dimmer, and every passing minute. It will get a little harder to see me. That's not a cool aesthetic effect just to gaslight you or to test the moodiness for the show.

Rather, my light fixture above me broke. It started smoking and all the bulbs went out. So I'm now relegated to this sort of half lighting measure. So apologies for those watching, but it does add a cool vibe to the Xist Files. Today we are going back and continuing our deep dive into past cases where Father tells you everything we didn't have time to discuss on the actual episode. last time we discussed the season opener of season two, Dynasty of Death, and today we dive into personally one of my favorite cases and one of the more disturbing cases, predatory.

So actually, I'll let Father summarize this one. Father, could you give us a little logline on Predatory, what this case was about and why you chose it? Yeah, Predatory was about a college student, approximately 21 years old. He, one night, was thrown into a wall. And all of his dorm mates and the people around on his college dorm, heard it. When they went into his room, what they found was about one foot below where the ceiling meets his wall. He was thrown into the wall and thrown with such a force that he broke through the sheetrock.

And essentially the studs that he hit held him back, although the part of the sheetrock had no studs behind it gave way. So he had this perfect indentation of a human body into the wall. And of course, that body where it hit the studs, the studs didn't give way. So his body was sore and damaged in those spots. And, you know, so if you had the four strongest men in the world throwing this guy, they couldn't do what happened. And so over the course of my talking with him and he talking with those who saw it, what he described. was every night for the past five years, he had seen this monster with a rhinoceros head and kind of a bodybuilder's body that was trying to get at him, but it was restrained because it was chained

to a pole. Like there was a chain physically restraining this monster back that he would physically see, he wouldn't spiritually see, but physically see at the foot of his bed every night. Well, that night that he hit the wall. there was no chain. And this thing came at him, charged at him, and he ended up flying up against the wall and damaging himself in the wall in the process. So in the course of my talking with him afterwards, he had had a relationship with a woman, with a middle-aged woman some five years prior. She had hired him to do some yard work. She seduced him in the house and exploited him. A young teenage boy and middle-aged

him, exploited him. And so he was preyed upon by her. But what happened is an intense desire for sex occurred within him. And what he noticed is when he acted upon it that he had this ability to seduce women. And so he had seduced a lot of women. And he had no, he had no restrained. He had no, he had nothing but sheer confidence that he could seduce whoever he wanted. So he had never had somebody say no, right? So in your mind, he might be thinking, well, he just keeps kind of finding the right women, quote unquote, that, that are frisky and that want to fornicate. And that's really not the case. In fact, his favorite ones were Christian or pure women, pure girls, he took a pleasure in seducing them.

And he never had encountered somebody that was able to resist him. And so what is happening is there's something demonic in him that causes them to be unable to say no to the seduction. So there's this preternatural power that he's exhibiting whereby he comes very, very close to usurping the freedom of his victims. And so in the course of our talking through a debriefing, through his intake form, through my questioning, you know, it seemed the entry point was this seduction from this woman. And so what I needed him to do is confess the sins and renounce the actions.

And even, number one, confessing his sins, he wouldn't cooperate. He liked the sin too much. And so he was never, our interaction, our encounter was only one day in length because he simply refused to do what needed to be done to bring an end to this demonic hold, to close the door by which the demon attached itself onto him. And so effectively that ended our relationship and he never contacted me again. Well, also, Father, this case is notorious too because. And again, spoiler, if you've not listened to this case, please go back and listen to Predatory from Season 2. But Dylan, as the character was titled, famously declined help. And it didn't end well.

And I know we got a lot of angry emails asking why we profile the case that does not end well. So, Father, why was it important for us to feature a case that showed someone who does not get liberated? Yeah, because liberation is not automatic. It requires cooperation. It requires a submission to Christ. So yes, there's no question that Dylan was in trouble, that Dylan had a preternatural presence around him, that it had already been violent against him. And the cover was blown. You know, so that indentation in the wall just spooked the entire college norm out.

And it made it all the way up to the president of the university. And that is who called me. Dr. Oliver called me. He made the call for, you know, to see him. there's something that I could help within the situation to bring an end to this, to kind of get to the bottom of it, free this student, and bring peace again to this campus. And the fact that Dylan at the end of the day wouldn't cooperate, I relayed that to the president who dismissed him from the school. Wow. All right. Well, actually, we're going to get to the whole instigating affair,

but I want to start by actually, there is a vignette located in the middle of the episode, which profiles another friend of Father Martins who he had met while teaching classes down in Mexico City, or this guy lived in Mexico City, we're told the story of it. And I want to roll this clip because this illustrates the dynamic that was present, not just in Dylan, but in this gentleman as well. So let's go ahead and roll this clip here. She takes him by the hand and they start walking to the car and then it gets even weirder. Victor pauses, and without even saying a word, two other women get up from their table,

and follow him out to the car too. He drove up with three strangers, left me at the damn bar. Wow, could they have been prostitutes? No, no, these were just women. Like, they were with groups at completely different tables. I think one of them was even on a date, and she just left the guy. It's like he commanded them with his mind, and they got up and left. That's exactly how it happened.

I saw it. do you think he agreed to show you this? He's scared and wants out. It's only a matter of time before his wife finds out, and it's going to break his family's hard. You have to help, father. Okay. So, father, that is disturbing in so many ways.

And I'm curious, what do you think? I think my first question is, how could someone who is, quote, unquote, demonically empowered and demonized, actually impart their will onto others and actually make these women like just seemingly lose free agency who are not demonized. This whole dynamic is just very disturbing to me. So how is this working? Okay. So one thing to be clear, so the the free will of these women was not violated. The demon doesn't violate free will, but he does pressure it. So demons can't force a person to choose something, but they can profoundly act on the imagination, they can act on the person's emotions, and they can especially act on the body, such that they make a person feel

overwhelmingly drawn to something that they would normally resist. And so they can make the person be impulsive in a profoundly sensitive way. And so in such a state, the defenses are lowered, the attraction to the object is heightened, and the judgment is clouded. So now, this is not a common thing. I mean, these two individuals, Dylan and the other gentleman, the gentleman in Mexico, that I, whom I met,

they are the only two cases that I know directly. I've heard others, I've heard other exorcists talk about a case such as this. In that sense, it was a female, and probably the female that seduced Dylan probably had the same demon. You know, demons multiply one another, and they transmit themselves through open doors. And certainly fornication is a door by which demons travel. We've all been there, standing in the grocery aisle, looking at a piece of mystery seafood that seems to be fish. But yeah. See, I care a lot about where my fish comes from, and when you're trying to eat well,

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That's R-U-N-E-W-O-O-D-Rosry.com and use the code X-Files or E-X-Files for 15% off your order. Pick it up, pray it, stay faithful. God bless you all. Real quick, Father, can you mention, you said, demons multiply each other. Just so we, I know there's some listeners probably wondering what that means because they're not creating new demons, right? but are they opening up more doors for other demons to infiltrate? Is that what's happening? Well, they can do that.

But what I intended to say, what I meant to say, and thanks for asking for clarification, is they open the door for themselves. They multiply themselves. They multiply the spaces, if you will, in which they themselves exist. The same demon can be in multiple persons worldwide simultaneously. Right. And so we as humans may wonder, well, how can that be? how can they be spatially divided like that?

Well, demons are outside of space in time. So space presents no obstacle for them. They are everywhere simultaneously throughout the universe. Demons are everywhere in the universe simultaneously. What the difference is, where do they have jurisdiction? Where do they have the legal right to be able to act in a demonic way? And so in the case of victims, what you have is the existence. of that, right? And so they can exercise it simultaneously.

And Father, you know, for those who hear this and go, because one, this, I'm glad you said this is extremely rare, but, you know, would you, I know this conjecture, but would you guess that, because in this clip, right, I mean, these individuals are literally getting up at first sight and, like, basically going out and, like, demanding to have sex in his car, which is, it just seems so ludicrous. But in the case of something like that, I mean, you mentioned demons pressing on the imagination, that seems more than just, you know, heightening a temptation. That would, would you go as far to say as the person who's doing that, it's probably already compromised in some way if they're reacting that strongly? I don't want people to walk

around afraid that they're going to meet someone who is demonically, you know, possessed, and they're going to lose all their restraints, you know? You know, the short answer is, I don't know, Ryan. I don't know. Maybe they were compromised, but I know in the case of Dylan, I mean, by his own words, his favorite women to seduce were the ones that were pure and that were Christian. And so he said it would take them longer, take him a bit longer to exercise that seduction with them. But he had stated, I mean, could he be lying? Maybe.

I just don't think so. Nothing about him seemed to be something other than the truth. he said he had never failed. So he encountered the resistance. He encountered, okay, that he is proposing. And his very presence was exercising a lust upon his victim. And they could feel it. And he could see that they felt it.

And he enjoyed that. And so what you have in these situations is people who are, they need to react with. a profound force to overcome that force that is turning them into a direction. They have to act with more force. And Dylan was very successful at this. And that's why I communicated it to the president of the university because he needed to know this. He needed to know that no woman was going to be safe on his campus. And he expelled him because of his lack of cooperation. Wow. All right. Well, let's go back to the opening and instigating incident here with the chimera demon. And I want listeners to hear this because this is the thing that started at all. And it actually sets the stage because enduring this, I can't imagine someone refusing help after going through this. So let's play the clip of the aforementioned chimera demon.

Leave me alone. You where you are. Dylan, are you okay, man? No way, dude. He always does this. Ah, his night terrors. Well, that's it. Next semester, we are getting a new roommate. Or a cat. Yeah.

Oh, no, no, no, stay the fucking way. Oh my... Dylan! Dylan! You okay, man? Damn! Is he breathing? Shit! Whoa, quick! Hey! Go get help. Dylan, hang on, man.

Oh, shit. Help me. Well, disturbing, to say the least, a rhinoceros-headed demon chained at the foot of the bed, breaks loose and throws someone into a wall, severely injuring them. And so, father, I have to ask, so one, let me just start this,

a chimera demon, have you, is this something you've encountered numerous times, is it normal for demons to take on, animal features like this? It is. I've never encountered this particular appearance. A rhinoceros head with kind of a bodybuilder's body. But I have had people who have stated that a demon will manifest and it'll have like goat hooves or horse hooves for feet rather than kind of human-like feet.

But you have to remember, demons don't have bodies. So if they do present themselves in a physical way, an image, the whole image is an illusion. It's just, you know, they get to, if they have the divine permission to present the illusion, to present themselves in an image, they typically have the permission to choose the image in which they are represented. Now, Father, I have to ask, I know some of our friends wearing their skeptic hats are going to ask these questions. did you by chance ever get to see the mark in the wall or talk with any of the roommates or ever that experienced it? It sounds like it was a thing that disturbed the entire floor or the entire room, I should say. And I know Dr. Oliver attested to this, but what did you happen to see besides Dylan and his actual, I know you saw Dylan and his actual injuries?

Yeah. So I just saw what looked like a fresh hole in the wall. And I say fresh because the dust was still on the floor. The sheetrock dust was on top of surfaces and things. And it just literally looked like you somehow picked up a human body and threw it up against the wall. The studs, as I said, were intact. And they stopped the body where the body hit them. But the sheetrock gave way.

And so you had this imprint around the studs of a human body. Wow. And of course, that made the whole thing credible, right? I mean, it made the whole thing credible. People heard it happening. And then you could see the physical evidence there. So people were kind of, you know, they were beside themselves. They were creeped out. Some people thought it was a hoax until they saw the physical injuries on Dylan's body. So they saw the bruises. You know, and I mean miraculously, and certainly fortunately for Dylan's sake, none of his. bones were broken. Are you surprised at that father that he lived through this? I mean, it sounds like hitting a wall at that velocity, it would be very injurious. Well, am I surprised he lived through?

No, because I, you know, I cannot see God permitting. I mean, the whole thing is happening by God's permission. And I can't see him permitting a demon to take the life of Dylan. I can see God permitting the demon to beat him up, and he did. But that's all for the sake of Dylan himself to get Dylan off the trajectory that he's on and on to the divine trajectory, like on to a relationship with God. And Father, one thing that I found really interesting about this is that Dylan would later say and state that he had this noticed this demon and had appeared ever since the incident he mentioned with the woman. And this thing has been at the foot of his bed, and he's just been okay with it. Would you have expected any of the other roommates or people in his vicinity to discern or detect

anything out of the ordinary of such a strong demonic presence was there? Or is it often not the case that people who have demonic issues don't give off signs to outside observers? Yeah. So the appearance of the demon and his ability to, well, it took him a little while to discover that he had a seductive ability. But the appearance of the demon and a profound, new found interest in sex that was obsessive, like so it certainly was into the realm of a compulsion, of an obsession, an obsession. Those two things happen simultaneously.

And as time went on and it didn't take long, then he discovered that seductive ability and he enjoyed it. So it wasn't just that he enjoyed it. of the seduction. He enjoyed the sexual act itself. And when you heard him talk about it, it just was not natural.

I mean, the way he talked about it, like, he lived his days for that next a sexual encounter. And he would have multiple ones in a day. So it just wasn't normal. It wasn't, you know, there was never

within his being, within his person a satisfaction or a kind of a there was never a plateauing there was this incessant drive for more and more sex so father i want to go to your meeting with dylan one of things that stood out and you mentioned this and i found very interesting is that dylan was very late and it wasn't just disrespect he kept saying that he was having trouble finding this location which should have taken him 10 15 minutes and he kept saying that he was driving around that his he wasn't able to navigate and i think you mentioned in the episode that it could have been a case of a demon trying to block him from getting to you do you think that's what was going on

certainly i think that's likely what was happening so if i recall i was two or three hours waiting for him so he was he had delayed his arrival such that like you know so all of this my involvement in this i i was only involved in this case one single day and it I had things to do. So I had squeezed this in. You know, I was in a, I was out of town. I was actually, I had a speaking engagement. So when I received the call from Dr. Oliver, whom I knew, whom I had become friends,

because it was a friend, because it was somebody with whom I had a connection, I thought, okay, well, I want to help the situation here. And so I'm going to make an hour or two available to speak with this student, to speak with Dylan. So when he didn't show, and I remember, gosh, it was I think one o'clock that we were supposed to rendezvous. By three o'clock, he still hadn't arrived. Now, I called him three times. And each time he was saying, I'm having trouble finding it,

and where are you? I was describing where we were. And finally, over two hours late, he arrived. And, you know, what do I think happen? I think that the demon was influencing him and resisting his ability to get there by causing confusion by disorienting him and causing a kind of internal mental distraction such that things didn't look familiar. He kept driving around in circles.

And he said that. You know, I just kept driving around just seeing the same things. And although he was using a GPS, either the GPS was being acted upon or he himself had an inability to properly read what was on GPS. The upshot being that by the time he came to me, you know, I had just a very small window at this point. Like so my three-hour window was now reduced to one hour, which is not a lot of time when you're just encountering a case. When you've got to look at where the wounds are. You've got to kind of open and close all the doors that are there to see like where, where's the infection? Where's the problem?

You know, so that time had been compromised by his driving around. And so I was anxious to just get down to business because I absolutely couldn't be late for my speaking engagement. Wow. And Father, is this a common tactic of the enemy? I mean, obviously they don't want you. If you're on your way to confession or if you're on your way to church or a worship service or anything, they want to stop you from doing anything there. So is this a paradigm that you witness often where people will have resistance getting to the help they need?

Yeah, it is. Now, it can come in different ways. It can come in the form of pain. It can come in the form of just like a terrible anxiety. Or in this case, in the case of Dylan, just a confusion, such that he was pretty well useless at being able to get where he needed to go. Ever since childhood, we've been admonished to eat our vegetables. Mom said they were good for you, but I wanted chicken nuggets instead.

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path for guests. We had no guest booked. We simply drove out in faith. And you know what? God connected us with Mr. Peterman from Seinfeld. PGA and Master's legend, Bubba Watson, Kathy Lee Gifford, Chuck Liddell, and even Andy Weir from the Martian and Project Hell Mary, which is awesome, and pro-surfer Laird Hamilton. Now, I never actually got a chance to upload these to Spotify on video. So I'm going to be re-releasing them on Spotify video for the first time. You can see the cool little night set and fake campfire with the mountains. It's really fun. So if you have found yourself saying for some inexplicable reason, known only to you and God, that you want more of Ryan's dad jokes, more interviews, more of my run-on questions with just the occasional pearl of priceless

wisdom, then I want you to subscribe right now to the Ryan Bethay Show, wherever you get your podcast. Or just click the link in the show notes to subscribe anywhere and everywhere. Check out the Ryan Bethay Show wherever you get your podcasts. Now, Father, Dylan says when he finally does arrive and he meets with you, you notice that he has a very arrogant attitude and you do notice his injuries, et cetera. But were you surprised at his cognitive dissonance about his situation where he is literally, you know, black and blue and bruised all over and fighting you about the way to treat his problem? Yeah, absolutely. you know so Dylan clearly wanted the problem resolved and by that what I mean is he wanted the he wanted this monster this chimera removed out of his life but he did not want to give up the sin so he knew what he was doing was wrong but he enjoyed it so much

that this is not something he was prepared to surrender it wasn't something that he wanted to put down but he wanted the pain eliminated from his life. And, you know, so there was an arrogance with him as if, you know, that I was somehow somebody who was hired to do this and I worked for him and with my questioning, with my trying to kind of get to the bottom of things that I was wasting his time. And at a certain point, I just, I turned on him for that. Like, I'm getting the sense that you. think I have to be here and do this.

I don't have to be here. I don't have to help you. I'm glad to offer you help if you are helpable, but I don't have to be here. And, you know, there was, when I said that, or words very close to that effect, it's been some years now, it was just a slight rolling of his eyes

where it made me incensed because in that moment I knew it's 10 to 1 that we're not going to be we're not going to encounter any kind of success today because he just is not in the space where he's going to allow grace to penetrate there is no humility in the guy there's pride there's arrogance there's there's a self-satisfaction there was too much ego and so much ego that there was no room for christ to be in the situation So I moved into, at that point, I was partway through questioning kind of his sexual history because the whole thing centered around sex. So, okay, let's go back to the first time that you had sex.

The second time and third time. And what happened was this seduction by this middle-aged woman that lived a block or two or several from his house who hired him to do yard work. She brought him in the house, I believe, to give him a drink or something and then seduced him. All of his problems began from that point. And, you know, for five years, he had this insatiable desire and this uncanny ability to seduce and to engage in the sexual act with people, essentially, with women, essentially creating at least one victim a day. Do that spark any sympathy?

and you, Father, that he was prayed upon by a predator and now has become the predator? Absolutely. I mean, everybody who is ensnared by the devil has my sympathy. The devil is the enemy. He's a fiend. He's a manipulator. He's the strong man who has bullied somebody into his snares. And whether he did that through cunning, whether he did that through human associations, like in the case of Dylan, you know, he was seduced by this. woman who took advantage of him and victimized him, but in so doing contaminated him such that Dylan himself became the predator. Yeah, it's just, it's so interesting. I've heard of this.

Essentially, this is so rare because you would think that this seems like a really nefarious tactic that if demons are sort of, you know, STDs and is a spiritually transmitted demons and they can spread that way. you would think that this would actually be a major coup for them to get someone like Dylan because they've essentially created a new, you know, super spreader, right, for lack of a better term. Right. Yeah, exactly. And that's exactly what he became, a super spreader.

And he, this demon was acting upon him in an uncanny way. And the people around, the women around him felt the effect. So some of the women, you know, he didn't have to. do some, he just walking into the room, that was seductive enough. Same with the gentleman in Mexico. Like, for him in particular, it was the physical sight of him. Now, you know, I saw the man. You know, he was average looking guy. It was not an ugly guy. He certainly was not the type of guy that would grace magazine covers, but, you know, attractive enough guy, but certainly not exceptional at all. And neither was Dylan.

Dylan was average looking at best. I remember you saying that he wasn't impressing you, father. And especially the body count that he was saying was not commensurate with someone of his aesthetic giftings, right? Nor with his personality. I didn't find he had one ounce of charm. You know, like he didn't have a personality that was any more attractive than his non-attractive body. So it just, but yet, I mean, he's disclosing what he's disclosing. And I took it for truth because of the event that happened at that dorm, whatever it was, two or three days prior.

The fact that he had, there was physical evidence and multiple witnesses that were able to see it. And, you know, so it just was not rational to assume that there was a non-preternatural cause here. Hmm. All right, well, let's roll. I want to give listeners a flair for who haven't heard this, Dylan's impudence, and then your famous words to him. You had some harsh words for him. Manipulation of others is one of the strong characteristics of the Jezebel spirit, especially when it is present in men. Okay, okay, okay, look, we can meet in the middle. I got to get on the road, you got to be somewhere. How specific do I really need to be? I can hit the highlights and we can just blow through the confession thing. No more monster throwing me at walls and you can make it to your thing on time. We both win.

Because I wear a collar around my neck doesn't make me your dog. Your call, Dylan, do you want to do this God's way or not? So Father, let me start. You had some harsh words. I actually got a few emails about this saying, why was Father so harsh on Dylan? But there's actually a biblical precedent. I imagine Paul was being a little more delicate as he wrote this out.

but there is precedent, right, for someone who's completely unrepentant and causing damage to the body of Christ for those in pastoral positions to use that kind of rhetoric and take action, right? You bet. You bet. So as time went on and with my talking to Dylan, my trying to get an understanding of what's going on with him, why it's going on with him, and coming up with a pastoral plan of, okay, like, this is where we're going to hit. this is where we're going to we're going to invoke grace. He was getting more and more impatient. And I was really, you know, like, I didn't have time for this on that particular day. I made time for it. I had an extremely full day. I had to prepare for teaching I was giving and I wasn't fully prepared at that point.

So I needed that time. I had just traveled in, out of state. I had a flight that brought me in that day. I was tired. I just wanted some peace in my life for that day. So as time is going on, and what I'm getting is attitude from him, I gave him that feedback.

This is just not impressing me. Am I disturbing you, Dylan? Am I bothering you by asking the question? And, you know, what he wanted was for me to just somehow take out the magic wand or take out the magic goddust and sprinkle it in the air. And, you know, as if he was at a, the image I had in my mind was, his view is as if, you know, when women go to the salon and they have that kind of that spaceship thing over their head.

And, you know, there's nothing to do but for them to read a book or kind of today kind of scroll through their phones. But essentially, it's the hairstylist doing all the work. And that, you know, the hairstylist is making it happen. And that's what he thought was involved in that there was no role for him. So he just wanted it done as quickly as possible. And then it came out, you know, he disclosed why he wanted it over with so quickly. He was going to drive out of town to his girlfriend's house and spend the weekend with her. Well, of course, what that means is he was going to have intercourse with her.

So this is a guy who had a girlfriend and who was speaking to her daily. and so she lived several hours away from him. So they were doing the boyfriend, girlfriend thing over the long distance. So talking every day, once in a while, driving, you know, he would drive over to her or vice versa. But he also had multiple sexual partners per week and usually multiple ones per day. So there was nothing authentic in his life. Now, certainly his girlfriend didn't know what he was doing. None of his partners knew what he was doing either.

I mean, some of them probably did because he was seducing a lot of different women. He had over 400 partners in five years, and he had been at multiple schools. So he always managed to get himself, well, I shouldn't say get himself thrown out. I don't know that he got thrown out of the other schools. I don't know that. I don't know if he left of his own accord. I don't remember those circumstances or even if I ever knew them. But I do know that this was at least his third.

or fourth school that he was attending. And so, you know, to have that many sexual partners, different sexual partners, he numbered at around 400, that's pretty, even if it's half of that, even if he was wrong, but 200 people, that's pretty incredible. So he wanted me to just do my thing, get it over with, so he can go back on the road on the way to sin. And so I obviously I'm wasting my time from start to finish.

If that's what he has set his heart on, nothing I'm going to do is going to make a single difference in his life. Nothing. In fact, it's just going to waste my time. So the devil is winning twice. He's defeating him, but he's wasting my time and keeping me from doing work that I needed to do, work for God that was apportioned to me and for which I was responsible. and I was neglecting that to do this.

And so I just said to him, look, if, well, what I said to him was, you know, I snapped at him. And I said, you know, get out. Get out now. Get out before I throw you out. And, you know, he was kind of shocked at that point. It broke the whole cadence of the whole conversation, obviously. And it shocked him. And he said, you're a priest.

supposed to be nice to me and I said, I am being nice to you. Get out before I throw you out. So my approach for that, like my reasoning for that wasn't just to be mean to him. It wasn't to allow him to feel the edge of my anger. It was purposely to break the cadence of our conversation. It was to shock him like, hey, this is serious. Like I, you know, don't be lulled by the lullaby. You're in trouble here. You have wasted my time and I wanted to shock him into a place that, you know, could he actually hear me through what it is that he's experiencing in his mind and head and heart, which at the end of the day is something diseased? And so, you know, I said to him, like, you're either going to cooperate, you're either going to

do this God's way or just get out. And so he got up to go leave. And so I said, you know what? I hope the devil kicks your rear end. In fact, I hand you over to him. I hope he be you so badly that you come crawling back on your teeth to Jesus Christ. And he paused for one second. And I thought, okay, this is, you know, maybe he's going to turn around and say, you know what, you're right. You're right. This needs to end. He turned around, stopped, but he didn't, he turned right back around, head out at the door. And that's the last I ever saw of him. no now father at that point when he does leave um now actually let me ask you this first because father obviously in first corinthians five paul talks about a unrepentantant believer but a member of the

church and you can he says turn that unrepentant brother over to satan for a while right and so obviously dylan's not operating as a member of the church but do you think is there is there an apostolic authority or some sort of um at an ontological level do you think that what you said to him and what you did, was it just words, or do you think there was a part of you that was doing a sort of reverse blessing on him, like invoking saying, you know what, Satan is going to be a discipline tool for you, and I hope that it leads. It's almost like a weird way of praying for him. Is that kind of what's happening? Well, so look, Dylan was blinded by power, pleasure, and control.

He was blinded by those three things. and sometimes the only sometimes only consequences can break that illusion so that's exactly what I was doing I wasn't inflicting a curse upon him but I was trying to wake him up and you know certainly I I wasn't sicking Satan on him

Satan was already on him but what I was trying to do was make him aware of the kind of danger that he's in And, you know, by the way, you came to me, viewing me, treating me as, you know, kind of I'm a hired hand. And, you know, my job is to do your bidding and you snap your fingers and I'm moving too slowly. So you scold me a couple times if you didn't give me attitude because I'm not doing things according to the schedule that you want. I was anxious to show him that his image of me was incorrect. Well, it is awfully coincidental or not.

that as we wrap up here, Dylan's life started to unwind very quickly. You got a call from Dr. Oliver that other women had come forward, and it actually said, you were actually, if I recall from the episode, you went to go speak with him urgently, and he had actually beat you to it, that others had come forward, warned him and said, hey, we have had this experience with this guy, and that he was on track to be expelled. So, Father, does all this strike you as interesting,

the timing that, you know, he's violently thrown into this wall. he has a chance to meet with the priest he refuses help and then his life just starts going downhill that seems awfully poetic you know a little bit of justice there yeah it is like i say i do know that this was not the first college that he had attended so did the same thing happen in other places i don't know i don't know so certainly if that was the case you know it gives you a window into the depth of trouble that Dylan is in the fact that he cannot see how much trouble he's in and all of these circumstances are happening around him and for goodness sake his body was black and blue horrifically and that wasn't enough the pain for that like he he was wincing with with every breath that he took you know and

for him to walk, he was contorted and hunched over to one side because of the pain that he felt in his ribs. And that expansion and contraction of the rib cage as he was breathing was horrific for him. And yet, you know, this guy is getting into his car to go have a weekend of sex with his girlfriend. So how do you parse that? Well, you parse it because there is some element inside him that has control and is driving him into darkness constantly. And unless Dylan does something to fight against it, he is in massive trouble, massive trouble. So again, like, I was trying to break through of that. I was trying to raise the seriousness of the situation in his mind. Fortunately, it wasn't enough. All right. So, Father, also, as we wrap up here, I know as Dr. Oliver

let you know about the news that had come in, that other women had come forward. What I found very interesting was that many of them described their dalliances with Dylan as alliteration intended there, is that they described it. They actually thought that they had been drugged or something when they came back around to it. And I thought that was a very interesting way to describe it. I know earlier you mentioned that demons can, you know, inflect on the imagination and loosen ambitions. But for the listener wondering, again, just maybe they're having a little fear of like, oh, my gosh, like how can this be how can a demon you know like i don't want to encounter this what would you say

about what's actually happening at an ontological level here yeah so to be clear some of the women described you know it was as if i was drugged and they they didn't literally mean that nobody was physically drugging them but what they're describing is a state in which when they go back and parse it they don't know why they consented to intercourse with Dylan. So a common theme from all of them, I don't know why I did it. I don't know why I did it.

That wasn't like me. It just happened. But yet, you know, they were calling that moment. It isn't that there was simply a consent. There was a profound experience of lust internally. There was a profound tension that they experienced. And there was a desire

to relieve that tension through the act. That's what they all experienced. And so there was something on a level of power internally that they had never experienced before. It wasn't simply like a kind of a movement of their libido, an influence of the one's regular libido that's there. It was something on the level like they had never experienced. Wow. And Father, I'm having a tough time of this.

If you're a spirit-filled Christian, you know, part of the body of Christ, obviously, that doesn't mean you can't sin. We all do that. But you would think that that would just confer a protection against this, or am I thinking about this incorrectly? Because I know Dylan mentioned he liked to pray on the pure girls. And I forget if he said it takes him a little longer. But am I wrong in my assumptions of how that should operate? Because it makes sense to me if you're not plugged into the vine, then you don't get God's. If you're not part of God's kingdom, then you're not under.

his protection. This seems this would be like medieval law anywhere, right? But if you are under Jesus's protection, how do you reconcile, like, maybe what some of these women were experiencing with Dylan? You know, that's a good question. And it's part of the mystery of it all. And I don't know that I have an exact answer for that. So look, and to qualify all of this, I'm taking Dylan's word for it. Now, the other experience, the other situation with a gentleman in Mexico, so when I was there, when I was in Mexico, I met the guy, but I met him through his friend. And it was through his friend, his coworker, that I got to know him. And so most of the knowledge I have of him is through that coworker, who was a good man,

who was a spirit-filled Christian, devoutly Catholic, attended church, all the time and was scandalized by the way that his friend was living. But he loved his friend nonetheless. I mean, they were co-workers, but they were friends. And so that the guy with the seducer, he confided in his co-worker this ability that he had. And he did so out of anxiety because he was married. He had several children and he was scared to death that his wife would find out.

and that is marriage and family would be dissolved because of it. And so there was a terrible anxiety within him. And so when he described, you know, look, all I have to do is show up and women, women come at me and they'll even start undressing themselves as they're walking towards me. So I'm being told this and they, you know, it was a very first time I had ever encountered anything like this. But he said to me, so the gentleman telling me, he said, look, so I didn't believe him. So we went, you know, they both got in the car and the seducer says to him, pick a bar, drive someplace. So he drove along randomly until he saw a bar.

They get out of the car and the seducer starts walking towards that bar. And our common friends sees him doing this and sees coming out of that bar. is a woman who sees him and starts taking off her top right in the parking lot of the restaurant. So when I was being told this, I could see in the gentleman telling me, he's not lying. I mean, he really saw this. And, you know, they went into a car, went to another bar. And they were there a minute or maybe two. And there were multiple women that came.

out looking around as if, you know, there was something calling them. And when they saw him, they made their way, they made a beeline to him. So he picked one of them, you. And they went off somewhere private to sin. So this is the, this is the uncanny ability that was present in this person. It's a Jezebel spirit. It's a spirit that causes the internal CPU, if you will, to be rewired. So the computer program is rewired and enters into a kind of self-destructive mode. Well, careful. Next time you're in Mexico City.

Watch out. Just go get a taco and go home. Right, father? That's right. Well, this has been a deep dive into predatory, father. Thank you. Disturbing. case. But also, I just, I have this image of Dylan bruised and battered. And for how many of us are we

walking around crippled by a sin? And God is just saying, hey, like, you are holding on to this thing and it's destroying you. And so, Father, maybe you could close us out and pray for anyone who might be trapped in something that is the equivalent of something like Dylan, except maybe it's not physical bruises, but maybe it's spiritual bruises or bondage in some other way. But maybe close with the prayer for anyone dealing with that right now. Yeah, so Almighty God, I give you praise and thanks for this day, and I ask you to bless all the Dillans out there, all of those who are predators, who are victim predators.

And I ask you to set them free. I ask you to impart your grace upon them. I ask you to drive the demons out of them and convert them to you. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. All right, folks, thanks for listening. We'll see you next time. Hopefully on a more upbeat note,

but it's exorcism. So, you know, it's going to be a little moody. Father, thanks for joining us. And remember, folks, stay demon free. Right, Father? Amen. You got it.