The Exorcist Files - Fr. Martins Answers Questions On The End Times, Demonic Obsession and Spiritual Warfare

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Fr. Matins answers a slate of spiritual warfare questions includingFreemasonry Deliverance PrayersThe End TimesDemonic ObsessionDemonic LanguageMichael's Dispute over the Body of Moses and more!Thank you to our sponsorsRemi- Try Remi risk-free at shopremi.com/EXFILES  and use CODE  EXFILES to get up to 50% off your nightguard at checkout!Lumen- Handheld metabolic insights. Get your Lumen today at lumen.me/exfilesSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome back to The Exorcist Files. Today we have a very special Q&A with a special focus in deep dive into the realm of the supernatural and spiritual warfare. And with me to help shepherd us along the way is the one and the only Father Carlos Martin's. Father, thank you for being here. Yeah, sure, Ryan. Good to be here. Okay. So, Father, back in 2023, I believe it was, we did a segment just one-off called overly specific praises and criticisms.

and I thought today for this episode that I would open with a few notes that came in in 2024. This one's for Ryan. Ryan, I deeply appreciate your contributions to the show. For a Protestant, you're not so bad. However, I must say on your ad reads for dog food, you employed two comments that I believe the overwhelming majority of traditional Catholics would push back on. You admonish listeners that their dog is a member of the family. This is not accurate.

A dog is not a member of the family, because the fan. is explicitly human in nature, which a dog is not, which leads into societal disintegration and the rise of, quote, fur babies. This is a phenomenon. This as a phenomenon is disastrous for our society, deeply insulting to parents and ontologically wrong at all levels. I was floored to hear you use this term. Other than that, great job. What a thing, father? Is that a venial sin I committed or immortal? What are your thoughts? I do love dogs, I will say. I notice we didn't say anything about cats. Gosh, I think the only sin is that you retain this email and didn't hit delete immediately. I mean, pets are part of the family. We talk about them as being a member of the family.

You are not asserting that they possess your DNA. You're not saying that they're biologically related to you. So anyway, those kinds of emails survive no more than one nanosecond in my inbox. All right. How about some praise, father? We should get some praise here. It says, Dear Exorcist Files team, I would just like to thank you for the podcast, and just for background, I lost my way or rather, perhaps my life fully when I started sinning and walked away from God. During your podcast, something in me clicked, some sort of calling, like a fire that started my heart. It suddenly came up to me that before I was living a very sinful life, and quickly there seemed to be an urgency to repent. I still remember it. It was Ash Wednesday that I decided to pray the rosary every night and indulge myself in the theology of the church.

after 15 years away, this show brought me back to confession and helped renew my faith. I felt like my soul is so thirsty after all those years, and I just took a gulp of water and replenished my soul. Thank you so much, Father, for your podcast. Now I'm living fully, avoiding the near occasion of sin and repented of my sins. I also am always attending Mass now. I'm participating in some church activities within my local parish. God bless you all, a friend of the show.

That's awesome. And that's why we do this. It's to impact people. lives and to introduce them into the kingdom of heaven or reintroduce them, if they've already been there and walked away. So that's marvelous. That made my day. All right, Father, another criticism. Are you ready? Can you handle this? Father Martins, I deeply respect your ministry, but your stance on oatmeal is disconcerting. As a therapist, I'm wondering, what happened? Did oatmeal hurt you? Were you, quote, steel cut by it? That was my attempt at a dad joke like Ryan. Keep up the good work. I'll keep up

with my oatmeal. What happened is I put it in my mouth and I discovered it. I just thought, gosh, I can't do this. I don't want to do this. All right, folks, careful with oatmeal. Another criticism here, and then we'll finish with praise, because we always want to finish with praise. Father, I'm shocked that you allow people to speak on this show besides Catholics. Very disappointed when I discovered you had Protestants in season one. They are rebelling against the very foundation that Jesus Christ laid. This is a Catholic show. Please cease with your Protestant false ecumenism. and make them return home to Rome, and then make more amazing dramatic case files. Those are fantastic.

That is all. All right. Well, you know, the deeper issue is why does God allow Protestants in his universe? That's the big metaphysical question. That's there. But given that he has, given that the Lord permits their existence, well, I have chosen to acknowledge them. Maybe all this while I've been sinning somehow in doing that. I don't know.

But there's so much arrogance in that state, which is unfortunate. And that kind of speech, I just don't find that there's any kind of place for that within honest dialogue. Look, that's a triumphalism at play that I'm right, you're wrong, and so you have to conform to me. I mean, that doesn't get anybody anywhere. On contrary, it just deepens the divisions. All right. Let's finish us in praise, and then we'll get some actual questions here. Father Martins and Ryan, the show changed my life.

It's messed me up theologically, though, in a profound way. I deeply appreciate how you listen to Christians of all backgrounds. I'm a Protestant, but now very curious about the Catholic Church and what else I have been mistaken about. Keep up the good work. Love you guys. Marvelous. See, you got to take the good with the bad. So anyways, that's the absurd, normally specific criticism.

So thank you all. And I do love dogs and they are part of my family if you're listening. All right. What do you say we get to some actual questions here? Father Martins, I recently learned my grandfather, was a mason and pretty high up. I'm reaching out to humbly ask, is it possible that involvement in Freemasonry, even indirectly through a family member, can open doors to spiritual oppression? Seems the answer is a very obvious yes, after listening to your case from Season 2, Live Free,

part one, and two. If so, would you recommend prayers of renunciation, deliverance, or even seeking a diocesan exorcist to break any lingering spiritual attachments? Thank you. Yeah, no, I don't think you need to seek anybody out. I think you just need to engage in renunciations. You know, if you just did a simple search on the internet for renunciations against free masonry, you're going to end up with all kinds of different hits. Some of them are going to be repetitions of one another, but some of them won't. I think the important thing is not to be so focused on the formula, but on the renunciations themselves.

So they can use different wording, but at heart it is the same thing. Just like, you know, you end up with a contract to, purchase a car from this dealer, you end up with a contract to purchase a car from another dealer and maybe a third dealer. And none of them are going to use identical language, at least not for everything. But all three are binding contracts. And the same thing with renunciations, they are what undoes a contract and say they can use different words to do that. So don't get hung up on formulas, but just engage in the renunciations. Just go through the prayers that you see, whatever site you see. If you don't like them, grab another one. Go on to a different site.

And the point is that you want to renounce the participation of your family member into masonry and any of the effects that come to you or your family members. And so you want to attack the covenant that was made. And the great thing about these kinds of generational curses when they're engaged in, generational covenants cut both ways, if you will. So you can be on the receiving end of a bad covenant. But the family member that engaged in it and participated at the first Mason, if you will, can be the recipient of a good generational covenant that you send back, quote, unquote, through time to him.

So, in other words, the realm of mystery, in the realm of mystery, he is benefiting through your renunciations that you engage in right now, which could be decades or even hundreds of years after the original covenant was made. But the important thing, I think, is the power of Jesus Christ to use words to attack those things which are ungodly and by which you are affected and your family members are affected and tackle that work. That's a wonderful thing to do. But you don't need an exorcist to do it. You don't need to even go get a priest. Can you imagine if everybody in society calls on the door of a priest or the exorcist to lead them through prayers of renunciation? like it'd be impossible not only to get through everybody, but it'd be impossible to do anything else.

But the good news is you don't need it. Through the grace and dignity of your baptism and through the words of faith that you have, pray those renunciations in faith and God will do the rest. Amen. Father Martin's here. I want to do a quick plug for one of the most powerful tools I've seen for breaking free and growing closer to Christ. Exodus 90 The Exodus 90 challenge begins this year on January 20th but this isn't just a 90-day program

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Okay. Next question. Father Martins, huge fan of the show. Also enjoy Ryan's dad jokes in doses. I want to inquire a bit more about obsession as far as the levels of demonization go. Your very first episode from Season 1, No Life Without Death, about Cheryl becoming obsessed with having a child, was really eye-opening for me. Now, she, of course, seems to be suffering in a much more severe form of obsession. But what characterizes obsession versus, say, just struggling to not think about something?

Example, I'm just really worried about this thing. I think we all go through that. Would love any more context you could give. Love the show. Appreciate all you do. Yeah. So a good question. What characterizes spiritual obsession.

So there's psychological obsession. There's spiritual obsession. And then there's just preoccupation with something. So a spiritual obsession is something from which you cannot break free. You're not free not to think about it. And the root cause is evil. evil is the root cause. In psychological obsession, you're not free to not think about a certain reality, and the mind or a mental illness is the root cause of that.

So the difference between the two can be immensely subtle, and that is one of the most difficult areas in the realm of exorcism, is that diagnosing between the two. And, you know, I talk about it in my book on how the best, well, really what I think the only way by which that can be done, and that is through the testing that comes through prayer. That if there is a change that prayer brings about, then that's a clue that the relevant obsession is spiritual rather than psychological in nature. And then, you know, just the thinking about something being preoccupied, well, generally that's a momentary thing. You know, that's part of a day or maybe several days. It generally doesn't last longer than that. So we wouldn't really call that an obsession. We would just call it a preoccupation.

So I guess once you enter into honest to goodness obsession where the mind is obsessed, it's not free to not think about a certain reality, then the question is, is this a illness that is in the mind, or is this a spiritual reality? And the way to test that is through prayer and see if when prayer is administered, if there is a change, even any kind of change, whether it reduces or increases. And both are indicators that there's a spiritual root there. All right. Ooh, interesting question here. Father, what is the Catholic Church's position on the end times and the various interpretations of scripture around Revelation, the Antichrist, the Strongman, etc. I know there's probably a lot that could be said in this, but if we were distill this down, Father, what are some high-level thoughts

on maybe looking out for the end times and how things might plausibly play out with the caveat that obviously no one really knows the day or the hour. And if you do, let us know. We've been living in the end times for 2,000 years. So from the time that Christ ascended into heaven, the end times have been upon us. And what so attracts people about the end times is the drama that we usually associate with it.

Armageddon battles between good and evil, the army of God, the army of darkness. But some Christian traditions talk about something called the rapture. And they talk about a thousand year reign of Jesus on earth. Then he goes away and then evil comes back. So there's all the elements for kind of, if you will, theological sexiness. There's strife. There's just lots of drama.

But it boils down to really four things. The end times mean death, judgment, heaven, hell. Right? those four last things. Like some Catholic theology, we use that expression, the four last things. Death, judgment, heaven, and hell. Prior to even talking about it at the cosmic level, we have to be aware that no matter when that is, and we don't know the time, right?

So Matthew 24, Jesus says that the end of time is going to come like a thief in the night. Watch, therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming, but know this. if the householder had known what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have let his house be broken into. So you must also be ready for the son of man is coming. The son of man will come at an hour that you do not expect. All right. So the emphasis that our Lord places here is on you being aware of your end times. because you will face death, and immediately upon death, you will face the just judge.

And then only two things are left. Eternal heaven, eternal hell. So even having Catholic doctrine, we also have the possibility of purgatory, but those who are in purgatory are already saved. So in the end, it's only heaven or hell. Those are the two possibilities. So the end times, kind of the ending of time, the ceasing of life on Earth as we know it, that has a really exciting, dramatic, sexy dimension to it. But it is so unimportant because every single person who has died since the ascension of Christ

has not faced the end times, the cosmic end times, but every one of them has faced their own personal end time. So the importance is incomparable for you to be ready for when you face the church. So let's talk about the end times, the cosmic end times, the ending of the world and the universe as we know it. The catechism of the Catholic Church following scripture and the tradition as understood by the church fathers provides us with a general order of events that leads to the end. If you want the reference, Catechism of Catholic Church sections number 673 all the way to 677, 673 to 677. So the end of time will be and must be preceded by four chronological events. So the first is the full number of Gentiles will have to come into the church.

right so we don't know what that full number is but what is prophesied is that that is going to happen two there will be the full inclusion of the jews in the messiah's salvation in the wake of the full number of gentiles in other words this one number two full inclusion of the jews will quickly follow in the wake of number one the full number of the gentiles will have come into the church. So you have to imagine what are the kinds of events that are going to bring that about? Because we're nowhere near that. I mean, there's just nothing happening worldwide in terms of current events that is producing this. Number three, there will be a final trial of the church in the form of a religious deception that offers humans an apparent solution to,

their problems, but at the price of apostasy from the truth. In other words, at the price of definitive leaving of the Christian church through a renunciation of something essential. So, for example, the identity of Jesus Christ, to deny that would be denying something essential. To deny his moral laws, that would be the denial of something essential. So if I were to look at something like this, the final trial of the church. In Western societies, I see a number of things in the moral realm that could be offered as an approach to this. One is the belief that abortion is morally neutral, that it's fine, or that even if one believes it's not fine, but that it would be permissible for a woman to make that decision and take the life of the baby inside her womb for

whatever reason. The other one is to deny moral absolute truths, that there are no moral truths that are everlasting and enduring for all time. However, even though in Western society, this is the case, non-Western societies, this is not the case, right? So that there isn't this belief that human life has no value or that truth is changeable. So in other words, so this third condition is not at play. We haven't reached the apocalyptic dimension of number three. And number four is Christ's victory over a final unleashing of evil through a cosmic upheaval of this passing world and the last judgment. Right. So obviously the first three things have to happen before this one. And this one would be that great event of the return of Christ, right? So

that Christ's victory, you're going to see him descend. And, you know, that is the moment where, okay, the end is upon us. But guess what? We're nowhere near that because the other events have not occurred yet. The gospel hasn't been taken to the four corners of the earth. There are places on the planet that have never heard the gospel. And so we're just not anywhere near. the conditions for the second coming having been established.

And then, I guess, Father, we've talked a little bit on the show, too. Do you see a world where AI or aliens in a more fringe scenario might something more overt where it's not a thought heresy, but perhaps an actual overt global unity? Kind of like what we saw in the 90s with the Left Behind series, like a one-world government, or is that less likely based on your reading of it? No, no such a thing I think is totally possible. But I think the bottom line is that the line between truth and fiction at a worldwide level are going to be blurred because of things like AI. You know, like we at one time, you know, we could trust video footage perfectly.

We can't do that anymore. Before that, we used to be able to trust photography. We can't do that anymore. And so, you know, we revise accordingly. We revise accordingly. And yet somehow we've managed to live our lives here without being able to trust 100% in photography. And now without being able to trust video footage 100%. But deception is possible, is evident, is coming.

But I think the Christian needs to be focused on. his or her own four last things, death, judgment, heaven, hell. And if you do that, then it doesn't matter what happens around you. It just doesn't matter. Like you're not getting, you're not getting sidetracked by things that really don't matter. And I'll tell you this. You know, the way to prepare yourself for that encounter with Christ in your own judgment is not only to remain sin free, yes, that's a bare minimum, bare, bare minimum.

So as a Christian, you are bound to that. But if you participate in the work of evangelization of spreading the kingdom of God, which is the very work of salvation, you're trying to save God's children, what do you think his response is going to be to you when you show up before him for judgment? that you worked to make those who he loves the most to save them from hell. Can you just imagine the slack he will cut you in that moment? Can you imagine just how grateful he will be in that moment? That whatever defects you have, they'll be burnt up.

So that would be something worthy of occupying our our time. How can I help the people of God get into heaven? That would be a great focus on the end times. I guess the moral story is be ready because it could happen any minute. It could happen before this podcast goes, right, Father? You bet. Okay. Be ready. And obviously, we do know the exact date that Jesus coming back, but you're going to have to listen to the rest of the episode to find out, right, Father? I don't know that I would know the exact date, but if you do, well, gosh, maybe you have some special elixir that you got that I haven't been able to acquire. No, we know the only elixir that Father likes to acquire is Le Fin du Monde.

And if only they were a sponsor, we could go to it right now, but they're not. So, okay. All right, here's a question about St. Anthony of the Desert. Father, I have heard about St. Anthony of the Desert, who went out to pray and literally, he writes, the animals would come at him. The enemy would appear in various forms. It seems as wolves and snakes. What do you make of this? Do you think that he was having visions, or was this literally the enemy occupying the minds of animals

and using them against him. And for the record, I have read letters to Athanasius, and it was very interesting to read these very visceral accounts of St. Anthony's. He talks about the house shaking, and, yeah, Father, what do we make of that? Well, okay, so I think there's three things that play here. So first of all, some background. So we hear about these battles of St. Anthony through his biography that comes to us from St. Athanasius, the great church father.

So he wrote a book called The Life of St. Anthony. And in I believe it's chapter 9 and a little bit even in chapter 6 he talks about demons coming and attacking St. Anthony. So keeping in mind that we are removed from Anthony himself. So it's already a mediated account from Athanasius. So I think with regard to these attacks, they could have been one of three things or even a combination. So one, the devil could reprogram an animal, like take over an animal, if you will, and get it to do his bidding. So he possesses an animal, or many animals, let's say. Two, the devil could produce an interior vision within Anthony, vision that only he saw, but which is very vivid.

Think of when you were asleep and you had a really vivid, vivid dream and you woke up. It was so vivid that it felt real. Well, he can produce that reality when you are awake. And, I mean, the only thing stomping him is God's will. If God permits him to do that, then he can do that. The third thing is that the devil could produce an exterior vision through illusion and the manipulation of light. So he can cause you to, quote, unquote, see something to be standing there, say, in the next room or down at the end of the hall. And it's really not there.

It's just a complete illusion. It's a mirage. And the devil can cause any one of those three things or any combination of the three things to produce an attack like Anthony had. So which was it at play in Anthony? I don't know. I don't know. I think the more interesting thing is what did he do with regard to him? How did it lead to his increasing his relationship with Christ and increasing his trust,

developing a greater sense of love and charity and humility that, okay, if the Lord chooses that I can be attacked, well, you know, so be it. I'll put more trust in God's sanctioning that or allowing that to come about than I will in the power of the devil himself. Okay. Father, do you recommend everyone pick up a copy of that book? I can say it's a wild read. Oh, anything by St. Athanasius is marvelous. So the life of St. Anthony would be a very worthwhile read for people.

Very formative. All right, Father, another interesting scripture question, and I'll admit for me, this is always perplexed me a bit. But we read about the letter of Jude is when St. Michael is disputing over the body of Moses with Satan. What is going on there? And what is that referring to? Yeah, so that's a good question. And I'll give you the short answer and then I'll give you a little bit longer one. The short answer is we don't really know.

We don't really know because there isn't enough there to give us a definitive interpretation of that. And there are parts in scripture that are like that. Maybe some time down the road in the future, when certain events have happened, say, when the first stages of the end times have occurred, maybe that comes into light. at that point. So in other words, there's a particular truth about a passage that the relevance of which or the accessibility of it hasn't hit us yet, but it will hit us down the road. So the short answer is we don't know, not definitively anyway. But the longer answer is, I mean, you can certainly conjecture something here. Look, Moses was the prophet of prophets. He was God's instrument par excellence.

He spoke to God face to face, his own appearance was changed because of it. God gave him the moral law. God invested him with extraordinary powers. And he was the charge of leading his people out of bondage. So Moses is a hero, even though he was rejected by his own people many times. And even that he had his own moral failures and unfaithfulness. which caused him to not be able to enter into the promised land, his own unfaithfulness to the will of God. Nevertheless, one could look at this passage in Jude 9 and come to a possible conjecture that the devil wanted Moses's body to be known in order to ensnare the Jesus.

Jewish people with an excessive love for it, to kind of have an excessive hero worship of Moses. And then when Michael is dispatched, what it says is that God himself buried Moses. So when Michael intervened, the plans of the devil were foiled, and Moses's body was hidden in a secret grave, which the Jewish people never were able to find unto this day. So in other words, what there is clearly is a desire for Moses's body to be hidden. Now, some have survised that God assumed it into heaven like he did the body of Elijah. and they offer for this the fact that Moses appeared alongside Elijah at the Transfiguration. So in other words, there was the appearance of a body that was there present.

And I think certainly that's an interesting viewpoint. I've thought about it. I think God could have made Moses appear, quote unquote, without there being the need of a body there, because certainly he can do that. He makes an angel appear. The angel has no body. So he gives some kind of manifestation that indicates the presence of the angel. The same thing could have been the case for Moses.

But the point is, I think it was the will of God to hide Moses' body for the goodness of the Jewish people. He wanted his body hidden so that it wouldn't become a distraction and a source of their downfall. Father, we have a question about St. John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila. Both have written about demons. We have planned to do some specific episodes around them as they both have written extensively about it. But perhaps you could give us maybe a little high-level taste because some of their accounts are very interesting. What can we learn from their encounters with the demonic? And obviously, this is just a little teaser because we will be doing some content around them in the future. So let me start by giving just a brief bio of each. So St.

John of the Cross and St. Teresa of Avila were contemporaries. They knew one another. They're both Carmelite saints. They both were the founders of the Reformed branch of the Carmelites, the disgulsed, or in other words, barefoot Carmelites. They lived about 500 years ago and are both doctors of the church. In other words, their theological writings are so influential and so precious that the church has given them a title that it reserves only for its greatest teachers. by calling them a doctor of the church. And the word doctor classically means teacher. It does not mean physician.

It's come to take on that meaning. But the original meaning of doctor means a teacher. And the root word is docheri to lead. A teacher is one who leads you out of ignorance to knowledge. So that's what the word doctor means. So, Father, St. John of the Cross, why does he have that name? And what's a brief little summary? Where did he live or both them live?

And what was his main ministry? They both lived in Spain and John was a priest. Teresa was a nun. Both of them got together and became aware that their own religious order was not measuring up to the will of God. And so they both decided to reform the order. And in the enterprise of doing this, they got to know one another. They got to assist one another in that enterprise. surprise. And in that interaction, there has just been an absolute gem of a series of spiritual

writings that have been highly, highly influential in the church. Teresa Vavler herself says that John of the Cross has a special gift to cast out demons, stating that he's done so from many people, and he commanded them in the name of God to tell them their names, and they obeyed immediately. Now, That being said, Teresa writes about personal attacks of the devil whereby she even sees them. And again, there's two kinds of seeing that she describes, an interior scene where she can describe a physical appearance, but it's an inner vision that she has of denoting the presence of demons. At the same time, she does say that she has extramental visions at times of demons.

John of the Cross never says that. He deals with demoniacs in the process of exorcism and deliverance, but he never talks in his works about actually seeing disembodied demons apart from being inhabited by somebody who is possessed. All right, father, next question. How much of what a demon says in an exorcism do you just assume to be nonsense or just outright lies? Oh, gosh, that's a good question. I mean, I take everything provisionally. I doubt and question everything.

And what I accept, I accept only provisionally, knowing that they are master manipulators, that they are intent on deceiving. And they'll use anything to get at that. And I certainly never trust my intelligence enough to be able to spot it all. So I just go in with this notion that I cannot rely on anything they offer me 100%. And I'm ready to walk away from it all. When they tell me what their name is, when they tell me what they want, all of that kind of thing, I just don't take it for granted that they're telling me the truth. All right, Father, we did cover this early on in season one because this question

does come up a lot. But as a little refresher, in the account where Christ sends the demons into the pigs, what is the point of that interaction? And it does seem like the guy who owns the pigs was the real victim there, since he lost his entire livestock there. But Father, what's going on? What lessons can we draw from that encounter with the demons that were cast into the pigs and then ran off the cliff? Yeah. Okay. So what happens? Well, the demons immediately know who Christ is. And it says the man saw Christ, the possessed man, from a distance, and comes running up to him. What have you to do with us, Jesus of Nazareth?

We know who you are. Right. So right away, this is in distinction to that moment in the desert of Jericho when Christ is tempted by the devil at the beginning of his ministry. if you are the son of God, if you are, those are how the three temptations begin. And Christ, of course, defeats the devil and is able to rise above those temptations. So there's a change then from that point. The devil never again comes at Christ with doubt.

He always begins with certainty. We know who you are. The devil has become a learner. He has learned. about Christ's identity. So the devil himself is scared. What have you to do with us? Have you come to destroy us before the appointed time?

Now, there is an interesting statement. Have you come to destroy us before the appointed time? Right? So it seems that there is an appointed time and that they know what it is. and that time when this was happening was not that appointed time but nevertheless they so defer to Jesus and his power if you're going to cast us out we don't want you to cast us out but if you're going to do that send us into the pigs

and then Jesus says well very well and then that happens well then we know the rest they go over the side of the mountain into the water in the Jewish cosmology, the bodies of water were port holes or elevators, if you will, by which the demons ascended and descended to the earth and from the earth. So when the water was agitated in storms, in the Jewish mindset, they thought that there was a lot of demonic activity. And this is why Peter is scared at a certain point when he begins to sink. It isn't because he doesn't know how to swim. He does know how to swim. about that and John he swims to the shore from the boat. So it isn't the fact that he doesn't know

how to swim. That's not the cause of his fear. The cause of his fear is that he sees in his sinking something demonic and he's afraid of the devil. And so Jesus pulls him out of the water. And the question now though is why did the demons want to go into the pigs? And obviously they engineered themselves into going into the water. It doesn't say that God cast the demons into the pigs and then cast them into the water. It says he cast them into the pigs and they ran off the cliff into the water. So they are trying to go back to hell using a soft landing. You know, for them to be cast out of the man is a horrifically painful thing. What somewhat mitigates the... that pain is if they go into the swine. And then they don't want to stay in the swine.

Christ has cast them out. They got to go to hell. How'd they get to hell? They throw themselves into the water and by that, they can then descend into the realm of hell. And the pigs die, but so be it. Pigs die anyway. So they begged for Christ to give them a soft landing. And he complied. In other words, they begged Christ for mercy, and he complied. And the poor guy with the pigs? Is that a reflection on Jesus' take on pork? I don't know that that is the case. So he was not a Jew.

The man who owned the pigs was not a Jew. We're talking about the Sea of Galilee, the Lake of Ganesaret, and all kinds of different people, cultures, religions, lived around that lake. It was not just Jews. So there was nothing wrong, according to the United States. to his ethic and his worldview and the culture in which he was born and lived and was raised. I don't think we can conclude anything with regard to that, but there is a purpose that these spirits that were in the swine are going to fulfill.

There is a purpose. And he is deferring a battle for the future. And of course, that battle is going to culminate in the crucifixion of the Son of God. He is allowing them mercy at this point, but he's going to pick a fight at that point. And he's going to take on all the demons at that point. That's exactly what happens. All right, Father, last question here. We have a question about the interaction or exchange between Satan and Jesus, where Satan is seemingly asking to sift the disciples.

But Jesus prays for Peter. This is from Luke chapter 22, verses 31 through 34, which says, Simon, listen, Satan has demanded to sift all of you like wheat, but I have prayed for you, aka Peter specifically, that your faith, your own faith may not fail in you when once you've turned back, strengthen your brothers. And so is it simply a reference towards Peter's upcoming lack of faith and his betrayal of Christ, or does this hint at maybe potentially some significant demonization or specific demonic attacks focused at Peter. Any thoughts on this? Yeah, so Christ says to Peter, Satan has asked to lay

hold of all of you. So he uses the plural you, all of you, to sift you like weak. In other words, he wants to shake you up, break you open, take what he wants, then throw the rest of you in the trash. Right? That's the imagery that he uses. But I have prayed for you, Peter, you in the singular. when in turn you have converted, or literally the word he uses is turned. When you have turned, strengthen your brethren. So this is given as a pep talk to Peter that, look, I'm not going to let him defeat you. Now, Peter is scared to death of the devil. We see that everywhere in the scriptures.

There are three things that Peter doesn't like. He doesn't like loss of control. he doesn't like not being in charge. He doesn't like the concept of death, and he doesn't like the devil. Whenever those three things come up, keep reading, Peter is going to have a meltdown shortly afterwards. So when Christ says this to Peter, he's preparing Peter for that battle, but assuring him, hey, you're going to survive this because I'm underwriting this. I'm going to make sure that this doesn't have, but you know what? it has the exact opposite effect on Peter.

He is ready to just pull the rip court. And of course, later that evening, he has the total meltdown, denies knowing Jesus three times. And when they come to arrest Jesus, he pulls out his sword and cuts the servant's ear, which means that he had snuck a sword into the upper room of the last supper.

Like, why in heaven's name would you need a sword? Well, you need a sword if you don't trust that Jesus can get you out. of this mess. So the existence of the sword to me is Peter's demonstrating that he doesn't trust Jesus Christ. He wants to, but he just doesn't. At the end, I got to take matters in my own hands.

And so there is a sign that Peter and the other apostles belong to the devil because, look at the very words of Christ. Satan has demanded you. Well, what sense does it make to demand something that is not your own? So it implies that the devil has a legal right to the apostles. What could be the legal right? Well, they must all be in sin, every one of them. But Christ has intervened, and he's prayed.

He's asked his father for an intervention, and his father has granted it. that was communicated to Peter. Of course, for Peter, it's not enough. It just scares the life out of him. And the devil just makes Peter into his plaything that evening. But better times are coming up. Christ, it's not the only intervention he's going to make in Peter. And John 20 at the fish barbecue on the beach, the resurrection appearance at the Sea of Galilee, Peter is reinstituted. And the rehabilitation of Peter begins at that point. Yeah. And Father, isn't it sort of a hopeful note, too? And you think about Peter's betrayal and denial. Like, that was so catastrophic. And yet Christ still used him. So perhaps there's a hopeful note for anyone who feels they've done something just too awful to be used by God. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Christ is never finished with us. And so long as there is a hope that we can convert, that he can win us. He will keep at us. Amen. All right. Well, folks, that's all the time we have for today. So the only question that remains is, will you tune in next week? And you absolutely should. And we have a lot of new listeners that have written in saying they just discovered the show. It is not just interviews. It is also dramatic case files. That's actually where the show started. So if you have not, make sure you go tune in season one, season two, and the new episodes from season two, including Medium, Not Well Done, and our family affair about a generational which also our take on ghost stories, which you will thoroughly enjoy. So we hope you enjoyed today's episode, and as always, we encourage you to stay sin-free and hopefully demon-free.

Father, any parting words for the fans? Yeah, God bless you all, everyone. Keep us and our work in your prayers, and you, of course, are always at ours. Thanks so much, folks.