The Exorcist Files - Spiritual Warfare and Testimonies of Deliverance with Ken Fish

Episode Date: March 25, 2026

Few people hold a Master of Divinity from Fuller Seminary, an MBA from UCLA, and a track record of 20 years in Fortune 500 consulting alongside a global deliverance ministry. While it is hard to say which is more daunting—the boardroom or the exorcism room—we know Ken has seen thousands of people find freedom from demonic oppression. He joins the show today to share his stories.To hear this episode or any others free of ads- join the Vault and support our show. To get in touch with Ken Fish you can visit his site here- https://orbisministries.org/Thank you to our sponsors!Wild Alaskan Co- Get $35 off your first box of wild-caught, sustainable seafood—delivered right to your door. Go to:  https://www.wildalaskan.com/EXFILES.MiracleMade- Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/EXFILES and use the code EXFILES to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF.”Qualia- Magnesium, multiplied. 10 forms for total support. Go to https://qualialife.com/EXFILES to get 50% off and save an extra 15% with the code EXFILES.Runewood Rosaries- Get 15% off your order when you use our promo code EXFILES at Runewoodrosaryco.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome back to The Exorcist Files, the podcast that documents the spiritual realm while encouraging you to wear that Ephesion 6 helm. I'm your co-host, you love second or thirdmost, Ryan Bethay. And with me today is my special guest, a fisher of men, the one the only can fish. Now, our guest has degrees from Princeton, Fuller Theological Seminary. And unfortunately, we'll have to pray this out of him. He does have an MBA from UCLA's business school. I will, of course, be delivering him, but you'll have to wait for the end of the episode,

fight on to all my Trojans out there. And of course, with me as always, is our non-sponsor. They have nothing to do with this, but I drink one every time we do this. If you're wondering what the secret is to my sparkling personality, it is my sparkling water from Waterloo,

the unofficial beverage of Exorcists Everywhere. So thank you. Ken Fish for joining us today on the show. It's great to be with you, Ryan. What an introduction. Hey, what's what we try to do? All right, before we start, there's so many things we have to get to today. But Ken, let me ask you this. They say you never forget your first deliverance, or as father says, your first exorcism. Just to tease the fans a little bit about what we're going to be talking about today, is there a story or an experience that stands out as sort of the first time this went from the realm of theory and the kind of stuff we read about to, oh, this is happening today.

and this is realer than I probably have ever imagined. Yeah, there is a story, and it's a failed deliverance, not a successful one. I was quite a bit younger than I am now, and I was in Big Sur, California, at a young adult's retreat with my church. And there were, I don't remember now, it's been quite a few years, but there were a number of us up there, maybe 20, 25, maybe as many as 30, I don't know. But anyway, we were a group. We'd gone up to this campground in Big Sur, which for those who don't know what Big Sur is, it's below Monterey, California, or if you don't know where Monterey is, below San Francisco, and it's above Los Angeles.

So there's a stretch of coastline there. It's a couple of hundred miles. Beautiful, too. Absolutely stunning. It's stunning. The mountains cascade right to the sea. The trees are beautiful. It's often wrapped in fog.

It's not really a good place for beaches because it's a rocky coastline. But anyway, there are some campgrounds and things up there. So our church group had gone up there for this retreat. And I don't remember whether it was earlier late in the retreat. What I do remember is, and I am not exaggerating when I say this, even though it is humorous. We were, you know, arm and arm around a campfire, swaying back and forth. And yes, it is true, we were literally singing kumbaya. You're right. This is a terrifying story. Go on.

So while we're singing kumbaya with the bonfire going in the center of the circle, our pastor who none of us knew anything about spiritual warfare, demons. I mean, we all notionally believed in healing, but I don't know if any of us had ever seen a healing. I hadn't, but anyway, you know, we were kind of your standard charismatic fair for the late 1970s. our pastor walked from that side of the circle over to this side of the circle. And the person I'm about to describe was two people down from me to my right. And she was known to us. She came to our youth group all the time.

There was something about her, though, that was different. She sometimes would kind of look off with a vacant stare. She sometimes looked almost as though someone had smeared or smudged. ash out of a fireplace or a barbecue on her face. So sometimes it appeared kind of gray like the white ash. Sometimes it appeared to be black, more like if you, you know, maybe you had a piece of charcoal or slightly burned wood or something. So it varied a little bit. And I didn't realize it then, but I was seeing in the spirit. I was seeing operating and discerning of spirits. And, you know, from time to time, she would kind of mutter to herself under her breath and couldn't quite make out

what she was saying and everyone felt a little bit out of sorts around her, but she didn't seem dangerous or anything. So anyway, there she is. She's at this retreat with us. The pastor walks over and he goes over to her and he puts his hands on her head and he says her name, which I won't say here since we're on a broadcast. And then he says, say Jesus is Lord. And let me just say it again, he knew nothing about deliverance. Nobody present knew anything about deliverance. And as soon as he did that, as soon as he placed his hands on her head and said, say Jesus is Lord, she switched into this deep guttural man's voice. And she flung him across the circle onto the bonfire and he landed in the fire.

and she began blaspheming and screeching, but it was in a mad's voice, like that. And then it was like a volcano went off. And she'd echoed in the mountains across the campground. Four people tackled her, taking her to the ground, one on each limb. And one of the women who was just next over to me, who was a twilight. 25-year-old social worker who had moved to Los Angeles from Chicago, she sat on this woman's chest, while this woman continued to blaspheme and to say, if you don't get off me, I'm going to tell you. Meanwhile, some of the brothers pulled the pastor out of the fire and threw their jackets on him,

put the flames out. Believe it or not, he wasn't, he wasn't burned. His clothes were burned, but he wasn't burned, which was remarkable, perhaps even miraculous. And she just continued on as she was pinned to the ground with four grown men trying to restrain her from what she was doing. In those days, nobody had cell phones. So we used an ancient technology known as a payphone, along with another ancient technology known as coins. And so somebody ran to the pay phone that was by the entrance to the campground, placed the coins into the phone, called her home, and said, something terrible has happened. You've got to come and get your daughter. And so in the middle of the night, because it's five-ish hours drive, six hours maybe, from down in Orange

County, California, where we were based, up to Big Sur, where we were at that time. About five, six hours later, in the middle of the night, the parents showed up, put her in the car, and took her home and we never saw her again. And the score on that one, Christian, zero. And I remember looking at that and saying to myself, I never, ever want to see that happen again. So that's your Marvel universe origin story. That was the birth of a deliverance minister. That's it. Wow. And just so we're clear, the coins did not have Caesar's an image on it, right? It's not that long ago. It's probably like, you know, George Washington and Franklin Roosevelt. Yeah.

All right, these weren't denarius. That's good. Awesome. Wow. Well, folks, this is just a taste of what's coming up today. Ken, obviously, you speak all over the world and you have, one thing I really appreciate is you have spoken to and worked with so many different expressions of Christianity. And obviously, in this show, we do have a heart for ecumenical dialogue. So, Ken, could I invite you as tradition on this show, now that we've covered kumbaya and delivering spirits in,

Big Sur. What is something, we have a huge portion of the audience that is Catholic and Orthodox. What is something you appreciate about the Catholic and Orthodox tradition as a Protestant yourself? There's a lot of things I appreciate about the Catholic and Orthodox traditions. Let me start with this. When I was attending Princeton, I became very good friends with the priest who was assigned to our campus. And he was a younger priest, which probably was itself somewhat unusual. And he had had some interactions with the charismatic community of Catholics in Ann Arbor, Michigan, the Word of God community. Anyway, we got to know one another, and he wanted to start a mass on Saturday evening at midnight. And the reason for it was students would be coming back from what we called

eating clubs. Think of fraternities. You'd be in about the right place, but they're not nationally affiliated. So students might be coming back from parties at the eating clubs. They might be coming out of the library, maybe coming back from a movie. But what better time to go to church, then they can sleep in in the morning. So that was kind of his idea. And actually from what we would say a call church growth strategy, it was actually very, very good idea. But he needed a worship leader, and I had a folk ensemble.

And so he asked me, would I be willing to lead worship for this midnight mass that he wanted to start up? And so the band and I, we became the worship leaders for the midnight mass. and over a period of months, we grew to where we had about one and eight students from the university attending. We got over 500 people coming. So I've had a very, very warm and close association with Roman Catholics ever since that time. There have been many times where I have interacted quite fruitfully and with great joy with Catholics. I have some very, very good friends in Australia. I've done a lot of ministry in Australia. This year I'll go on my 108th ministry

trip to Australia. One of the groups that I've had a lot of interaction with while I'm there has been the Roman Catholics. I mean, what a cool image of you leading worship. And actually, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask, what was your folk band's name since you were a folk ensemble? Did you guys have any cool, catchy or corny pun name? We called ourselves the wind of God. Love it. That's wonderful. That's, That's really beautiful. And yeah, that explains why you'd have such an affinity there. And also, right, I think part of it too is, you know, we say it on the show a lot, but the enemy seems to target anyone who loves Jesus. So it actually is quite unifying for us. And what I've appreciated

about your talks is that you've ministered in Presbyterian churches, assemblies of God, you've gotten together with groups of Catholics together. And what I'm seeing out there is this incredible unity building around this shared just knowledge of, hey, we have an enemy and we need to, like band together because Christ is the ultimate exorcist and we all have faith in Christ and he's going to he's the one who ultimately helps deliver us from evil and it's just yeah you know it doesn't spare any tradition right that's right absolutely and you know you asked about the orthodox um i'll just i'll keep this one brief but uh i have developed a fairly deep relationship with a number of churches in armenia and i've had meaningful interactions with uh they call themselves the

Armenian Apostolic Church, but it is the Eastern Orthodox Church of Armenia. And in other nations, depending on where I've been, I've often had interactions, whether with Ukrainian Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Greek Orthodox, Coptic. So I interact with the Orthodox brothers and sisters also. Awesome. Wonderful. Well, thank you. Thank you for playing Ecumenical Corner here. Let's get into some deliverance discussion. Let me start with this. In all your ministry, One thing I really appreciate is that you're quick to say, hey, this is what's in the Bible, and then this is the experience that I've just observed. And I really appreciate that when it comes to deliverance, it seems like brilliant, faithful,

God-fearing individuals. God uses them in different ways to set people free, and it's not necessarily prescriptive. In each case is different, and I've been blown away by the Holy Spirit's creativity and the different ways that people get set free. But broadly speaking, if you had to pick. a sort of a bugaboo, something that you say, I wish more Christians understood this about

spiritual warfare. What would it be? Oh, boy, I don't know if there's only one thing, but... You can pick several if you'd like. Yeah. Would be that actually yes, Christians can be afflicted by demons. There's a belief, I don't think

the Catholics and Orthodox hold this view, but particularly the evangelical Protestants. they almost uniformly believe that Christians can't be bothered by demons. I say almost because there are some outliers, but the majority of them would say, no, no, once you're in Christ, the devil can't touch you. And that becomes a barrier many times when people need deliverance ministry from receiving it.

Because why would I want to get deliverance ministry? The devil can't bother me. So that's why all the apostles turned out so well, right? That's why all the apostles and lived happily ever after, right? Hey, once they, once they saw the resurrected Christ and they weren't actually saved before them. That's usually the way the line of reasoning goes. Once they saw the resurrected Christ, all the problems went away. That's why the church spread.

Prosperity and easygoing, a message that was easy to stomach, right? That was it. That was it. So anyway, Tony Robbins better move over. So that would be one that would be near the top of my list. I think another one would be that without getting into any particulars at this point, there are many common things which people indulge in or engage in practices, activities, but it might also be substances and whatnot that can actually be open

doorways to demonization. And people imbibe or. partake or participate as appropriate without much regard to the consequences. And then they wonder why their lives are falling apart. And so I think part of spiritual warfare is making good choices. It's as simple as that. It doesn't necessarily even involve long drawn out prayers or rebuking the devil. It's just like say no to the things that God tells you to say no to. Macadamia nut crust at halibate, miso-glazed salmon, baked cod tacos with cilantro, cabbage, and a squeeze of lime on fresh corn tortillas.

I love fish, I love cooking, and I love saving money by cooking fish at home, and I love being healthy, which is why Wild Alaskan Coast seafood sent straight to my door is a must-have for any lover of seafood. So I cook a lot. I realized when I did my taxes this year

that I was spending a lot of money ordering food. And honestly, when I cook at home and controlled ingredients, I tend to look and feel better, and yes, of course, save some money. And fish is a huge part of that. It's a big part of my diet, and I look forward to getting my box, of Wild Alaskan-ca Cod with baited breath.

Now, Wild Alaskaco is never farmed in wild-caught. No antibiotics, GMOs, or additives. It's nutrient-rich, sustainably sourced, and they freeze it right off the boat to lock in those nutrients, like the much-fonded omega-3s I love. I really enjoy the Pacific cod, and, you know, they're co-host salmon as well. Like a lot of the best things,

you can try at risk-free with 100% money-back guarantee. If you're not completely satisfied with your first box, Wild Alaskan company will give you a full refund. No questions asked, no risk, just high quality seafood. Not all fish are the same. Get seafood you can trust. Go to wildalaskan.com slash X files for $35 for $35 off your first box of premium wild caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.com slash eX files for $35 off your first order. Thanks to Wild Alaskan company for sponsoring this episode. So I do like to laugh and joke a lot, but you know what's not a joke when you can't sleep. In fact, I would say when I wake

up in the middle of the night thinking it's like 6 or 7 a.m. But in reality, it's 3 a.m. That's scarier than any of the Exorcist Files cases we've had. But there is something that has helped. Miracle made sheets. Now, it's not a perfect cure. And of course, some nights I still wake up in the middle of the night. But I have found that temperature matters a lot to helping me. And I love miracle made sheets because they do help keep me at like that perfect temperature. Not too hot, not too cold. And that's because they're using a NASA-inspired silver-infused fabric, which helps you stay at the steady temperature all night long. As humans, temperature plays an enormous role in regulating how while you sleep.

Subtle shifts by just a few degrees can make an enormous difference. And sleep, as we all know, also makes an enormous difference in performance, cognition, skin health, and just how pleasant a person you are to be around. So I do recommend you try these sheets. They are currently on my bed as I read this. So if you're ready to try Miracle-made sheets, the time is now. You can upgrade your sleep. Go to try Miracle.com slash X-Files to try Miracle-made sheets today.

you'll save over 40% and when you use our code X files you'll get an extra 20% off plus a free three piece towel set they really do make an amazing gift and with a 30 day money back guarantee there's really no risk that's try miracle dot com slash eX files using our code X files at checkout thanks to Miracle made for sponsoring this episode well that's a good segue then i was going to save that for later but since we're touching on that and one thing i want to stress to everyone listening to because one, you know, people try and draw, you know, theology saying there's going to be a common experience. We get a question all the time. Well, I played with the Ouija board and nothing bad happened to me. And, you know, obviously, thank God we all don't get what we deserve because all of us have sinned.

And yeah, thank God that most of the time our lives don't completely up end. But what I think you're touching on that's so important is there are things that maybe a lot of Christians are unknowingly partaking in. And am I correct to say, look, you can say, look, it doesn't say in the Bible. like, don't do yoga. But I'm telling you as someone who has traveled the world and prayed for lots of people, this is what Michael Miller said in the show. Look, don't shoot the messenger, but I'm telling you what I've seen. And you can, this is what Father Martin says, you can believe me or not, but I'm telling

you, I've broken Freemasonry curses. I have prayed for people who have done lots of yoga. And you can say I'm wrong and disagree, but this is my experience. So would you say that's kind of your perspective? And then maybe you could start off with some of the doorways that you think Christians might be unknowingly opening that you have seen personally have really drastic negative effects on the body of Christ? Yes to everything you said, but I'd put one single qualifier on it, which is many times this doesn't need to rest solely on my experience or my given testimony that

XYZ might be problematic. Let's turn to yoga for a second. The scriptures are very clear that we are not to bow down to foreign gods and we are not even to, you know, participate in their rituals. Yoga is Hinduism, period. So when you participate in yoga, you are being, if you want to say it this way, a Christian Hindu or a Hindu Christian. Now, in terms of anthropology or sociology, the proper term for that type of behavior is syncretism. It means the engaging with two or more religious systems at once. And for example, when I've been in Sri Lanka or India, there are many people there who practice parts of Buddhism, parts of Hinduism, maybe even some Sikhism or Jainism. And for that matter, they throw in some Zoroastrianism. Why not?

That's syncretism. And what many Christians are doing today with regard to yoga is they don't realize it, but the entire yogic system, it comes out. of Hindu roots and every single yogic pose is a prayer posture to a Hindu deity. Well, why would you put your body into a prayer posture to a Hindu deity when the scripture says we are to commit our bodies as living sacrifices, holy and acceptable unto God? That is our spiritual service of worship. Why would you take your body, which is dedicated to the Lord, and put it in, what do we want to say unison, harmony, synchronicity with a Hindu spirit. It's completely out of bounds,

and it is nothing more or less than a violation of the New Testament standards against engaging in idolatry. And why are those structures given in the New Testament? Because in New Testament times, there were Greek and Roman gods everywhere, and there were some Christians, they believed in Jesus, but they were still engaging in idolatrous practices. Maybe it was going to a party and drinking. Maybe it was eating food that had been dedicated to an idol. That's the entire chapter of 1 Corinthians 10. But they were idolatrous people, even though they were Christians.

And I would just say you are engaging in the sin of idolatry if you are doing yoga. I know that's strong language, but I'm trying to be clear. Now it is. Well, we did an episode on yoga, and it was we got a lot of pushback, a lot of hate mail. I did find it very interesting that there were a lot of people said it's not religious at all. And I don't do it with any intent of religion, but I will never give it up no matter what you say. And I thought that sounds like devotion if I ever heard it. But just so for your yoga than for your Jesus, right? That's right. So let me ask you this just again, because we're going to

say, look, you're just, you can be, look, I'm just the messenger here. But in your years of ministry, do you have a story or two? I'm sure you've collected plenty at this point. But for the person saying, I don't know. I mean, I do it at my YMCA. It's an exercise. We had someone write in and say they do it as a stretching class at their hospital. You know, again, because I don't think most people are thinking that this is any sort of intentional violation of the First Commandment. But what would you say to them as someone who's spoken on and facilitated deliverance ministry all over the world? What could you look people in the virtual eye right now and say you've seen to back up what you're saying? I mean, I've seen people go into full-blown demonic manifestations because of their involvement with yoga and the demons that entered them as they were, to build on what I previously said, as they were worshipping Hindu gods. It's a one-sentence answer, but that's it.

This book right here was written by a sociologist of religion from the University of Chicago. He's now dead. He was Romanian, and he was one of the premier anthropologists and sociologists of religion in the 20th century. His name is Mircea Eliata. It's not an English name. It's a Romanian name. But he did a lot of groundbreaking work on folk religions, shamanism, and more. And he wrote this book right here on yoga.

And the subtitle of the book is Immortality and Freedom. Well, if you're questing for immortality and freedom from, in this case, the wheel of karma, and the topic is yoga. And by the way, Eliotta was not a man who professed any religion. He'd been raised in communist Romania when Romania was communist. And therefore, he carried the roots of that atheism. So some would say that made him objective. I don't know if it did.

But anyway, why would a man write a book about this? And by the way, look at how thick it is. Look at how much he has to say about just that. I mean, this book alone, if you are wondering about the spiritual implications of yoga, this might be a book you might want to get and read. But understand it's not being written by a Christian with an apologetic purpose. It's being written by a man who's exploring dispassionately. What's yoga really all about?

We've had professors or religious studies come on and say, look, whether you agree or disagree with Father Martins or anything, and the Catholic Church has not put out a definitive teaching on this, but it's that yoga is not just a physical exercise, but it does have, it is a religious experience. And I think actually if we've had on an actual yogi, I think they would say,

or they would say, yeah, absolutely it's spiritual. You can't divorce the spirituality from it. Let me ask you this. So talks about yoga, which I know is a bit of an unpopular one. What are some others? And actually, if I could, you have two great stories.

I'd love to prompt that I heard. One was, I was shocked that you had a case where someone actually was still going to a potion maker, for lack of a better term, and an herbalist. And they actually made a love potion that backfired. And I thought, this has to be something out of an Aesop fable. But it was the individual who drank the potion. And then the first thing they saw was not the individual that they wanted and said something else.

Could you share this story with us? And then maybe segue into a little bit how some of these herbalist practices also potentially could be doorways. Yeah. I live in Los Angeles, California, and no demons there. We have a very prominent Chinatown in the kind of center of the city right near the central business district. And the person that you described actually attends the church that I attend. And it might have been 10 years ago now. I really don't remember, but we were meeting in a different location from our current location.

I walked in one day and several of the members brought this woman over to me for prayer. And she had gone crazy. She'd lost her mind. She'd been, you know, level-headed individual, whatever. But suddenly out of the blue, it was like, boing, you know, springs were out of her head and smoke coming out of her ears. Not literally, I'm just being humorous. But anyway, they couldn't figure out what was wrong with her. And so they brought her to me.

as I walked into church. And so I began interviewing her. So she had been married and she and her husband had a son. And her son had been molested by the dad. And it wasn't just a one-time thing. She ultimately divorced her husband. So the marriage ends. And now she and her son are safe.

And I don't remember how many years had gone by now, but it might have been three or four. Anyway, she, you know, she's getting lonely. She wants to have a husband. And she wants to start dating. So she does what every good Christian woman does. Now I am being my most facetious, as I say this. She went down to Chinatown, went to the herbalist, and requested a love potion. Now, a lot of people may be going, what are you talking about?

These things actually do exist, but they may not be in your world and be thankful they aren't. She gets this love potion and the herbalist tells her, here's what you do. Once you find the man that you want to have fall in love with you, put this in his drink or have him drink it directly if he will, but have him drink it and be sure that once he does, you are the very first thing he looks at after drinking it because he will fall hopelessly and irrevocably in love with you as soon as he lays eyes on you. And again, you may be going, that sounds like something out of Yisop's fables or Grimm's fairy tales or, you know, whatever. whatever. But, you know, all of those kinds of stories that we sometimes call myth and legend, they often have some kind of actual story back there somewhere that has truth in it. She takes the potion home and she's considering all these men that she might want to have as her husband. And then she gets this idea. I wonder if this is really going to work, which of course probably more than half of our listening audience is thinking the same thing. And so she does her second brightest idea. ever had. The first one was to go and get the potion. The second brightest idea she ever had, and again, I'm being at my most facetious here. She goes into her bathroom. She gets the little, you know, cup that you use to rinse out your mouth after you brush your teeth. She pours about half of the

potion into the cup, knocks it back, and looks at herself in the mirror. And that was when, boying all the springs sprang out of her head, the smoke's coming out of her ears, and she goes insane. because she's fallen in love with herself and probably at the level of the myth of narcissists, if you remember that one from Greek mythology. But anyway, they bring her to me. I get this story out of her. And I said, well, I know what the problem is. You've got a spirit that entered through that potion that you got from the Chinese herbalist.

So we drove the demon out and she is level-headed and she still goes to our church. And I'm not kidding you, Ryan, every single Sunday that I go. Now, I'm not there every week because I try. travel a lot. But anytime I walk into the church, she comes up to me and she grabs onto my arm and she just hugs my arm and she like walk me to my seat. Do you want me to get you any coffee or any tea? Thank you. Thank you. She's still thanking me for helping her recover her mind from that event. And as I say, it was probably a decade ago that this happened now. But she's level-headed functioning individual once again. But she is still offering you beverages. So just be careful.

Go ahead. Coffee? Maybe there could be something in it. Love potion number nine. Apparently not just a song. It's not just a song. So there's no fountain of youth, well, at least one that I'm aware of, and that is commercially available.

But there are some key nutrients that some of us can be deficient in just due to the way we live our lives and one of them is magnesium. Now, I take magnesium every day. And currently, one of the theories for why we might have diminished magnesium intake is the way we form our food and also just the stressful way we live. live our lives in the diet many of us are accustomed to. Now, qualia magnesium is a unique magnesium supplement because it contains magnesium in many different forms. And interestingly, each form has a different use case and potential benefit. Now, I know a lot of us know magnesium is

critical for sleep, but some forms of magnesium help with muscle recovery, brain function, heart health, bone health, mood, and honestly, over 300 functions in the body. That's why qualia magnesium plus is the only product to combine 10 bioavailable forms of magnesium with more than 70 trace minerals that help fuel magnesium support. It's full-spectrum magnesium to deliver magnesium's full potential. And if you're deficient in magnesium, then supplementing might help with sleep, thinking, recovery, it might support your muscle strength, and honestly might even help with better metabolism. I have found since I started taking my magnesium, I'm sleeping a little bit better. And so, you know what? If you're ready, now is the time. You can experience the most trusted magnesium

for purity, potency, and performance. Plus, it's non-GMO, vegan, and gluten-free, making it a choice. You can feel good about. Go to qualilif.com slash X-Files for 50% off. And here's a bonus. Use the code X-Files for an additional 15% off your order. That's QualiaLife.com slash X-Files. And use our code X-Files. Thanks to Qualia for sponsoring this episode. Hello, Exorcist Files listeners. Father Martins here. Normally Ryan does the ad reads, but today I wanted to let you know about a new partner of ours. I'm a big fan of the Rosary. It's a marvelous prayer that has borne much fruit in my life and in the life of a great many others. If you're not a Catholic and you've never prayed the rosary,

try it out. You won't be disappointed. Pray it on three different occasions, because by the third time, you'll be in a groove and it will come out of you organically. See what it does to you, and you'll know what I mean. There are a lot of companies that make great rosaries, but I want to highlight Roonwood Rosary Company. They recently sent us some,

and I was impressed by the attention to detail and the unique designs they offer. They're all very durable and are made right here in the USA. Go to their site, and I'm sure you'll find one that speaks to you. So if you're in the market for a rosary, and if you don't have one, you should be. Check out Roonwoodrosary.com. That's R-U-N-E-W-O-O-D-Rosary.com.

And use our promo code X-Files. That's E-X-Files for 15% off your order. Or click the link in the show notes. Now, there's another story you shared about a church in Southern California. It was a Presbyterian church, and one of the elders actually confessed. to being involved in some inadvertent occult activity. Could you share this story? Because I found there's just a lot of astrology and fortune tellers.

And I have friends who go to these things and have these legitimate experiences. And they say, don't you believe me? I was like, I absolutely do believe you. I absolutely do believe that these things propagate because, you know, you have some sort of genuine experience. But perhaps you could share the anecdotes. I found that fascinating that an elder of a church, especially typically because Presbyterians, usually pretty conservative, would be engaged in this.

Yeah, this is a really interesting one. So this was a church in Orange County. And the pastor was, as you've already said, a Presbyterian man. He was a spirit-filled Presbyterian, he and his wife. They had kind of intersected my world or I'd intersected theirs or something years back because of John Wimber's ministry. I worked for John Wimber and they were, they were active followers of his, even though he started the Vineyard Movement. And so they came to his conferences and whatnot. Anyway, after John's death, they invited me to speak at their church. And they wanted to have a meeting with their elders. And I would just say that in my experience, I have seldom met a team of elders who were more unified and more disclosing of their own internal matters, issues, life struggles, history, kind of anything goes than. than this group of elders. Like in a good way, like healthily transparent. Yeah, very healthy and transparent.

Yeah. So I met with them in, you know, one of the rooms in the church. And there was maybe 20 to 30 people in this meeting, plus the pastor and his wife. And he wanted me to do some teaching. And I did. And anyway, at one point, there was a female elder. And she was sitting just over here to my right. So technically the left side of the room, because it flips when you're in the crowd.

from when you're on the platform. So she's over here. And I don't remember what I was teaching on at that juncture. But anyway, I'd been teaching something dealing with deliverance. And she puts up her hand and she says, I need to confess something. Okay, what's that? And she says, well, you know, I've been in this church for about 30 years. And I've been an elder nearly that entire time.

From memory, I think it was 28 years. But I could be off. someone probably has the original recording and I said it back then and that'll be the right number. So if it's not 28, then forgive me for not having it right today. But it's in that range for sure. I'm not out of the zone by much. And she says that entire time, every single week when I've come to church, I have gone to the fortune teller down the street. And I said, wow.

Okay, so what have you had done? Well, it kind of varied. You know, sometimes they'd do astrological charts. Sometimes they'd, you know, read my palm. Sometimes they'd do something else, crystal balls, Ouija boards. But I would have my fortune told every week. Well, the backstory on that one was that she was a white middle class woman, but she'd been raised in very dire circumstances,

and she wanted to gain some control over the first. future, know what was coming, plan ahead, all that stuff. And so she was visiting the, you know, this occultist with the idea of knowing what was coming so she could plan and prepare. And as she gave this confession in front of the room, and note that it wasn't like she was in a confessional. This wasn't a Roman Catholic confession. She's just admitting, I've done this. And boy, I realize now I probably shouldn't have done it. So let me just divulge. divulged this in front of the entire elder board. And she goes into a full-blown demonic manifestation right there in front of the room.

Like that. And so, you know, I just stepped off the stage, drove the demons out of her. And then she collapsed on the floor, weeping and sobbing. And, you know, the Lord healed her of the need, the wound in her that had come about because of the deprivation she'd gone through as a young girl that had caused her to seek to know the future so she could control her outcomes. But that it was extremely powerful. And everybody in the room was like, I mean, their eyes were just bugged out. They couldn't believe that they were seeing this in her. We've known her for 30 years. She seems like just, you know, a good Presbyterian elder. But she was also demonized

because of what she'd been into. And so, yeah, she'd gone for, you know, do the math on that. Let's say it's 30 years. That makes the math easy. And let's say there's 50 weeks in a year. That makes it easier yet. That's like 1,500 visits to an occultist over a period of half your lifetime. And people go many times and you just couldn't even say when all this began.

When did the demon truly enter her? on the other hand sometimes people go once and it's enough the fact that you may have gotten away with it and proverbially dodge the bullet does not mean that you are not violating god's ways and putting yourself at great risk i want to segue a bit because there's an interesting dynamic our question that this invites for me if you have an elder that's compromised in a church and people are sitting under the authority of that elder etc what does that in your opinion do to a church environment if a senior leader is demonically compromised. Does that have downstream effects? It can, but it won't every time. It'll depend somewhat on what the nature of the compromise is and what they're doing with it. In a lot of cases, for example, with this one, people will hide the

thing. And so they aren't really actively propagating it in the congregation. I mean, all these elders were shocked to find out that she'd been doing that. So it wasn't an open door in your opinion. It wasn't a major vulnerability to the church. Because I've always been curious about, you know, if people in positions of leadership, because, you know, Father Martin teaches on the show that, you know, there is a spiritual hierarchy and demons are highly legalistic and they respect, you know, again, your house, your rules, et cetera. And they're always looking for an open door. And I thought, wow, if you had an elder and a leader of the church, does that not have some sort of downstream vulnerabilities for the church? Well, it can. It can. I'm not going to say it doesn't. What I can say is

I didn't immediately go into, no one else in the room was manifesting at that moment. And I didn't say, okay, all other demons of the occult that are here from going to, you know, astrologers come out. I didn't do that with the remaining elders. However, after that meeting, some months afterward, that church invited me to come back and lead a Pentecost weekend service on the Holy Spirit. and at one point I called down the spirit on the entire room, the Holy Spirit. And hundreds of people were baptized in the Holy Spirit. They were speaking in tongues. We had two verified languages in that service, I mean, human languages that were known to the listeners.

But there were also a lot of demons manifesting. And so we had to drive a lot of demons out. And only you can say with certainty that that church was spared, I'm just saying I can't, I don't want to be so categorical about that. I will also say this, almost to counterbalance what I just said, that I've walked into many churches where there is immorality going on at the top. And so it's typically going to be the senior pastor or maybe the pastor's wife, or it might be the woman is the pastor, so then it's the pastor's husband. It could be the assistant pastor, but it's going to be right up at that level. It's not even just an

elder. And what I have found is when that's going on, there is a lot of adultery and immorality in those churches every single time I've bumped into it. And in fact, sometimes the way it comes to light is I'm starting to pray for people and I'm running into all these demons of adultery, fornication, maybe addiction to pornography, other things that, you know, people get into sexually. We'll just leave it at that. And I'm like, why, why is one third of the prayer line caught in all of this? And then I'll go have a talk with the pastor. And I find out, what do you know? Look at this. And so the downstream effect is absolutely real. I just don't think it's necessarily a one-to-one correspondence. But in statistics, there's something called the R-squared

correlation. And the higher, the number, the closer it gets to one, the more probable it is that there's going to be, you know, that cross-effect. And I might say the R-squared correlation factor for demonized leadership versus what's in the church. It's probably 0.8, maybe 0.9. So it's getting near one. One thing, speaking of authority here, one question that I had, you mentioned in one of your talks that you have seen countless missionaries zealously head off to go basically

do mission fields, engage in spiritual warfare, and come back with battered marriages, terrible health and basically getting routed, similar to the people who tried, the seven sons who tried to cast out the demon in a sense. And I'm curious, walk us through a little bit of what you think's happening there. I think you mentioned even specifically like someone went to Burma. And how do we walk through this idea that all Christians,

by virtue of their baptism, can exercise demons and have authority to trample on snakes and scorpions. But in a case-by-case situation, and we say this on the show a lot, whether one should or is being called to and go into that battle is another question. And so perhaps you could walk us through a little bit of this dynamic. Well, the short part of the answer is that Christians have authority because they are in Christ. And it's Christ's authority that they are wielding. He is the head. We are the body. And so it, you know, the instructions that the body follows. I mean, I just move my hands up this way. Well, my hands are responding to an instruction that my brain

gave to them to go there. So that's kind of the way authority works. But here's the reality. Authority grows with use and most Christians don't know they actually have it. And so they never use it and therefore it doesn't grow at all. It's there lying there latent waiting to be used. But for many, many, many, many, many Christians, they never really use their Christian authority at all. They don't engage in healing ministry. They don't engage in deliverance ministry. They don't engage in, well, any of it. So, you know, it's like, it's nice that I have that, but it's, it's not actually in use. Sure. So what is the dynamic you're speaking about when people come back? And you mentioned these missionaries that you find just get their butts kicked. Well, that's because they're on the

mission field. And generally, these are going to be people who are of a cessationist bent, which is to say they, they believe that the gifts of the spirit passed away centuries ago, if they ever, really existed at all. Some of these people are more like of the liberal ilk, and they were raised in an anti-supernatural environment in a mainstream Protestant denomination of some kind. And so they never really believe in the Gist of Spirit, but they wanted to do good in the world, so they went to teach in a school or dig water wells or whatever that kind of missions looks like. And so they picked up their demons on the field. If they're evangelicals, they might believe kind of the basic tenets of the faith and the necessity of salvation.

And they might even advocate strenuously for the idea that these gifts of the spirit were real. They're just not a thing today. So there are nuances and shades within this category. But the point is, these people go out to the mission field and they are unequipped for what they are about to face. Because when they go to whatever country it is, particularly if it's a highly idolatrous, polytheistic kind of a country, But listen, I've dealt with plenty of people who have picked up demons in Islamic countries. That's a monotheistic religion. The point is these are all pagan gods.

And we don't like to say that in America today because that violates our kind of standing value around pluralism and that all religions are equally good or bad, depends on kind of your view of religion. But they're all basically the same and they're all just trying to help us be good. and as long as you treat people nicely and are moral or ethical, whatever that exactly means, it's never really defined in these statements, then you're doing fine. But actually, from a biblical standpoint, what we see is there is only one true God. And Jesus taught us to call him Father in the Old Testament. He's known by Yahweh. But Jesus said, call him Father.

That's why the Lord's Prayer begins, our Father, who art in heaven. What happens is if these people either don't believe that it ever, that these things were ever real, or they go out to the field as evangelicals thinking they are no longer real, in that case, it's a difference without a meaning. What happens is they've stepped on to a battlefield and they don't have any body armor on. They don't have a Kevlar helmet on and they get taken out. How do they get taken out? What is the way that, what does that work? How does that work when you say taken out? that their marriages fall apart.

Things come, you know, maybe a couple who's been together for 20 years. And they've always been happy together. And they've got a beautiful marriage. And suddenly, they're at each other's throats. And within two or three months of being on the field, they want to get divorced. You've seen this. I've seen it. Or another example.

They go out to the mission field and one of them gets struck with something. And someone says, well, you know, it's a parasite. You know, the water's not good there. Well, that might be true too. But I've seen many cases of people who have come home and they've got huge gastrointestinal problems or sometimes respiratory problems. And we pray for them. And those particular stories I'm thinking of as I'm sharing this, those people picked up evil spirits in whatever country they went to. Maybe those spirits were even sent to them by the local shaman or the local imam or whatever.

And as a result of all that, they're now afflicted and have been stricken, and Western medicine cannot heal them because it is a spiritual problem. And in the Bible, we see multiple examples of Jesus driving evil spirits out of people and sicknesses leaving them or illnesses or debilitations leaving them because of the demon. So demons are not just something that are an ancient form of describing mental illness. They can be the causal effect of physical limitations and sickness. And so missionaries sometimes come home with those kinds of diseases and we have to deliver them of those diseases. You might say, well, why can't they just stand in Christ? And the answer is they don't know their authority. They haven't used that authority.

And by the way, they may be blind to the reality of the spirit realm, because most evangelical churches and all liberal churches are devoid of a supernatural worldview, such as is clearly exhibited in the Bible. And therefore, they don't see what is right in front of their eyes, so to speak. So let me ask you this. If someone comes to you with any type of illness, would you say it is a recommended practice? I've heard other Christians talk about this, that part of healing prayer is that, yes, We live in a world that is governed by, there's a world that has rules and laws of science,

physiology, we're humans, we break down, the curse is upon everybody. Like, yeah, we get old. There are parasites. There are toxins. There are cancerous cells. But is it fair to say, and would you recommend that anytime someone comes with an illness, because I'm assuming, you know, we're very pro-medicine as well, but do you pray and ask the Holy Spirit to show me if this is a demonically sort of inspired?

illness or if this is a biological. Is that something that you would recommend Christians do while praying? I often do that, yes. Particularly if, you know, we're praying what I would call standard healing prayers. You know, Jesus, we ask you to touch brother so and so. We ask you to send your spirit on sister so and so, you know, whatever, however we word those prayers. Jesus, would you do that? Or father, you know, people pray to different members of the Trinity at different times. But however they're praying, they're asking for healing. And it's not working. Now, that doesn't automatically mean there's a demon there, but it might lead you to suspect it, particularly if there are other indicative factors. For example, I just got home from being a

missionary in Thailand. And, you know, this all came on me in Thailand, and I can't throw it off, even with high-powered antibiotics here in, you know, whatever Western country I'm in. And so we don't know what to do, but I'm not healable. Hmm. Well, then maybe it's not actually just that you have a parasite or some bacterium, maybe it is that there's an evil spirit here. Let's go after that. So there are indicative things you look for in addition to the discerning of spirits. Would an example prayer be if I came into the church and said, you know, it's super interesting. I've been going through a season of really just awesome breakthroughs and my ministry is going great. But the weirdest thing, I've suddenly started having really crazy anxiety and I've

never suffered from anxiety. And my doctor said, yeah, I'm going to put. you on anti-xiety medication. Great. But let's pray through this and say, hey, Holy Spirit, show us what's going on here, right? Is this a treatment for the doctors? Or is this spiritual? And we need to like dig in and do something. Is that kind of the crux of it? Yeah. And, you know, when you pray, of course, you have to be habituated to the voice of God. People learn to hear the voice of God. It says of the prophet Samuel in 1st Samuel chapter 3 that when the Lord began speaking to him, he didn't know that it was the Lord because the word of the Lord was rare in those days. There were not many visions. People didn't hear from God at that time very much because

there was so much sin and evil in the land. And with that, when the Lord begins speaking to Samuel, not Daniel, Samuel, when he begins doing that, Samuel's confused and he actually thinks it's his boss, Eli, the high priest. And so he runs to him. And only after three times of coming does Eli I go, you know what, I think this might actually be God. If this happens to you a fourth time, say, here I am, Lord, your servant is listening. And so he does. And then God begins to speak to him. So Samuel had to learn how to hear the voice of God. Many churches don't teach people how to hear the voice of God. It's not even, it is literally not even once a year the subject matter of a sermon. And so many Christians have never learned to do that. But there are multiple ways God can speak to you.

give you discerning of spirits where you see something. So I described for you this woman at the campground in Big Sur and I said sometimes it looked like kind of white ash and sometimes it might look like more like soot. But either way, there was like something was smudged on her face. And I didn't realize at the time what was happening, but the Lord was starting to help me learn to discern. Other times you walk into a situation and you're talking to someone and you're like, I know what this is. You just know and you're knower. You just know. I know that you are wearing a black shirt and you have a dark beard and you have dark hair. I don't need to question that. It's that level of certainty. So God could give you that. Sometimes you'll smell a smell and that can be discerning spirits

because particularly certain classes of spirits have unique odors associated with them. And other times you might taste something. That's somewhat analogous to the smells. so I don't need to unpack that one too much. And at times you might hear something. It says of Samuel that at one point the Lord said in his ear. So you might hear something literally with your physical hearing. You might hear something, some would say you're crazy, but it's in your head. But it might be in the district of your ear or the region of your ear, the zone of your ear.

But it's more of an internal voice. and other times you might hear what, you know, some of the mystics and saints talk about the internal voice of God. And when that one comes, it might actually be something that you, it's almost like it's resonating here in your chest or it may be inside your head. But it's not specific to your ear. It's just kind of here in your head. So there are different ways that God speaks. And most people have two or three ways that God more commonly speaks to them. then they'd say, I've never heard from God those 28 other ways or 42 other ways, whatever the number is.

He speaks to me through movie scenes, which is, I used to think it was just because I watched a lot of movies and that just programmed in my head. And then I had a pastor say, or he knows how much you love good stories. And God's really good about picking the language that works for you. And it has now happened multiple times or I will get an image from a movie that is just the right scene. And it happens to communicate something for someone that's really profound. And I thought, oh, that's well. Well, yeah, I guess God loves me, and he's like, hey, you love movies. And guess what? I'm going to speak to you in a way that's really unique and custom designed for you.

And I thought, oh, that's really cool. Ken, let me ask you, is there a particular healing that stands out to those who are struggling with something? And I want to be really careful here because we shared Tammy Comer's testimony of being chronically ill for decades and only after she got spiritual deliverance, which she radically healed. And Christians live in this tension where we need to go after healing. And there's probably a lot more healing available to us than we realize. But we also know, like the Apostle Paul wrote, the Christian walk, it's ultimate victory, right?

But it's not victory in all circumstances on this earth. So is there a two-part question? Is there a healing that stands out for someone who's maybe feeling just really desponding saying, nothing, the medicine's not working? I need some faith to trust that what Ken's saying about this new spiritual lens. Maybe I need to pray into this spiritually to see if it can heal. And then also some encouragement to those to say, look, but not everyone gets healed. And as partly as Christians, we need to learn to be made perfect in Christ's efficiency.

Let me take the second one first. There are many people who have long-term sicknesses and illnesses that we struggle with to heal medically or through prayer. What I have found, though, is that if there isn't some sort of physical cause, you know, medically diagnosable through science, there is often some kind of spiritual root to it, which might or might not be demonic, might or might not be demonic. There can be other things of a spiritual nature, which are not demonic. Just a simple example is sin that was never confessed. That's a very, yeah.

And I've got stories about that. Did you share one? Yeah, I'd love to share it. Well, I mean, this is a, it's an interesting story. I've told this story many times, but I was in southern Mexico down near the frontier with, or the border, La Frontera, with Belize and Guatemala. And there was a man who came to the meeting and he was a quadriplegic. And so a couple of my team ran over to pray for him and they didn't have much, they didn't have much success with it. So they came over to me, grab me and said, hey, can you can you? over and pray for this guy. And as I walked over to him, I saw written over his head like an arch, the word usury, U-S-U-R-Y. The letters were about this high. They were about so thick, and they were white. And it was U-S-U-R-Y. Well, I knew what U-S-U-R-Y. Well, I knew what U-S-U-R-Y. Some of our listeners may not, but don't worry in a minute you will. So I walked over to the man

and I said, I'm trying to think, how do I use this word that God has just given me, this word of knowledge? Because that's an odd word. And, you know, I don't just want to, you know, come in like a bowl in a China shop. So I'm trying to be a little bit pastoral and diplomatic. But I am in a foreign culture. And, you know, we got all these things going on. So I finally said to him, let me ask you a question. Were you raised Catholic?

And this was all through a translator. And he says to me, and he looks at me like I'm in. idiot as he's answering me. He goes, of course I'm a Roman Catholic. This is Southern Mexico. Okay. And I said, I assume you went to catechism then. And he said, yes. I said, well, let me ask you a question. Do you remember what the catechism teaches about the charging of excess interest? That's what usury is. And it is forbidden in the Bible. I didn't say that to him. I'm saying that for the benefit of our listeners. Many people don't know that that is a thing. And he said, no, I don't remember anything about that. I said, well, let me ask you a question, have you ever lent any money to

anybody and charged them interest for it? And he said, well, yes, as a matter of fact, I have. Now, I'm just ferreting out a word of knowledge that I've gotten from the Lord. I asked him that question, and he said, well, yeah, as a matter of fact, several years ago, I borrowed a sum of money from a man, and I broke it into ten equal pieces, and I relent it to ten different people. I said, oh, what happened with that? Nine of them repaid me. And I said, and what about the 10th? He said, well, he still owes me. Okay. What have you done about that? And he said, well, I sent my guys around to beat him up. And I said, oh. And he said, yeah, they messed him up real good. Now, this is all through a translator, but in substance, that's what he said. I said, okay, so like you beat him

to within an inch of his life. And he said, yeah. And I said, you know, Jesus said, if you look on a woman with lest in her eye, you've committed adultery. I said, do you think that if you had a man beaten so violently that he nearly died, do you think that might be equivalent to murder? And he goes, well, I never thought about it that way, but I guess so. Now, obviously, this man is not the most sanctified Christian you've ever met. But, sure. Okay, the story gets worse. I said, so what else did you do? And he said, well, I had his two daughters kidnapped. And I said, you kidnapped his daughters and he said yeah i said do you know that the bible forbids slave trading and kidnapping i said it's it's named in the new testament he said no i never knew that and i said what happened to

those girls he said we returned them and i looked at him in the eye and i said unharmed and he said yes and i said completely unharmed and he said yes and i said well that's better but you're still guilty of kidnapping yeah i said what else he said well When none of that worked, I went around and threatened to burn his house down. I said, okay, so you're also guilty of arson. So I'm just using an analogous principle of what Jesus says. If you think about these things, you purpose to do these things, you've committed the sin in so many words. And more than so many words.

You know, you are an adulterer if you're lusting after women. And just so, you have intent to burn a man's house down. And no one can figure out why this even all came on. on him. And so I said to him, look, if I think Jesus will heal you today, but you're going to have to confess these things as sin. And so would you be willing to do that? He says, if Jesus will heal me, then I'm going to, then yes, I will, I will stop. And I said, here's the deal. Whatever you did with the first nine, you've done with the first nine, it's over and done. I said, but with this guy, whatever you've collected, you've got to discharge the rest of the loan. That's all. You're not going to

collect anymore. Do you agree to that? He says, if Jesus will heal me. I'll agree to that. And then I said to him, now listen, I want you to know something else. In Ecclesiastes chapter 5, it says that you should guard your lips when you go near the house of God, for it is better not to vow than to make a bow and not fulfill it because God will send his angel to collect the vow. I said, you will have to do business with God, my father. And I said my father on purpose. And I said, I'll be gone from this town tomorrow. I may never see you again. So you're not going to give any account to me, but I'm telling you, God will hold you accountable for what you are about to do if you break this. And he said, I understand. I said, okay, so we go to praying, and I had him

renounce all of these sins of violence, of attempted murder, of kidnapping, of arson, and then I broke the power of the sin over him. And so I said, the name of Jesus, get out of that wheelchair and walk. And he came right out of the wheelchair and began walking across the room. Now, that's a long-term debilitating condition, but everybody in the room knew him. It was a small town in southern Mexico, and the place went insane. People began running up to the stage. They're pulling hearing aids out of their ears and throwing them on the stage. Their eyeglasses, people are throwing crutches down because the faith in the room skyrocketed.

And that all happened because a man for confessed sin that he had, I don't know if he was so much, hiding it, he just hadn't confessed it. And in that sense, he was hiding it. Wow. And because you were attuned to the voice of God and the Holy Spirit highlighted on him something that you stepped out in faith in as well. Wow. You so you've, you're telling the listeners here, hey, I have seen, obviously you didn't see his doctor's medical chart saying that was quadripleaser, but you saw a man in a wheelchair who by all accounts could not move, you know, was confined to a wheelchair. And he was pushed in. I mean, he was the only thing he could do is move his head like this wow okay no one's going to tell you god doesn't do dramatic healing miracles today that's not a that's not an option for kinfish so what i've

found is that many things which seem unhealable can be healed if we dig enough but there are always a few we have a few people in our community that have i'm thinking right now of one woman with a kidney disease i'm thinking of another woman who has MS most of our people get healed sooner or later but those two haven't been healed yet. I'm not saying that they won't be healed. I'm saying they haven't been healed yet. They may get healed in heaven or they may get healed for whatever's left of their years here on earth first. I don't know. I don't control that. But what I know is I keep pressing in to find what that is. And this leads us to your first question, which is that you were asking about causes and things. And what I've found is that many of these things that are not solvable medically,

there is a root. And as I like to say, because it rhymes in English, if you get the root down here, you'll get the fruit up here. It's like saying, kill the tree off and, you know, all that bad fruit stops being born. In the case of various diseases, part of what I try to train people who come through our school to do is to diagnose well, because diagnosis is what really matters. If it's not a demon, then to try to cast out a demon will fail. On the other hand, if you don't believe that there are demons and that they can afflict, in this case, Christians, then you would overlook anybody who has demons and think that you just need to be praying healing prayers all the time. And those fail. And then we say, well, I guess God doesn't want to heal you.

So part of what we're trying to do is be comprehensive and thorough, teach people to diagnose well. And with that, you know, push up their success rate. And it seems to work quite well. So here's another story. again, this one's not a demon story, but it still, it proves the point. There was a young woman that started coming to meetings I was leading in Washington, D.C., and she came for a number of years. She had a condition, and there's a very specific medical term for it.

It has like 60 letters in it, but what it means is, and what the condition is, is you get fissures in your body, and hers were under both arms and in her groin where her legs joined the trunk of her body. she had these four large fissures and they drained pus all the time continually draining pus. She had to change the bandages about five times a day because they would soak up with pus and then, you know, start to stink and be wet and just nasty. So all right, change them out and do it again. And then again, she'd been living this way for years.

When I first met her, I think she was, maybe she was 25 or six. And she had had this condition since her high school years. Well, she started coming for prayer. And I have this thing that, you know, if it's not healable medically, there's probably some spiritual something, whether it's sin, whether it's in healing issue, whether it's demonic, whatever it is, there's something. And so we prayed. And she would come to any meeting I would do on the East Coast. Her parents had just enough money. Well, maybe they had more than just enough.

But anyway, they had enough money that she could travel some. So if I was in Philly, she'd come to Philly. If I was in New York, she'd come to New York. If I was in Boston, she'd come to Boston. If I was in the Carolinas or Atlanta, she'd come there. If I was down in Tampa, she'd come to into Tampa. But East Coast, she was going to be there. I prayed for this woman for five years.

And probably about every month. Maybe not every single month. But I prayed for her many, many times over a five-year period. And she wasn't healed. The last time I saw her was in New York City. And she had come to the meeting, looking to get prayed for again. and I'd made an appointment to pray for her in a friend's apartment. So she came, this woman came with her friend, and then my friend was at the apartment, and then I came.

So there's four of us there. And as we sat down to pray, I was tired. I'd prayed a lot. We'd not seen any breakthrough. And I prayed in my mind and in my heart. I wasn't going to say this aloud in front of her. That would be horrible bedside manner. But I prayed, and I said, Jesus, I am so tired of doing this.

I don't know why you haven't healed this woman, but she needs to be. to be healed and I'm tired of praying this way. I'm tired of losing. I'm tired of failing. So would you please do something here? But I was basically done. I mean, I wanted to quit. And the Lord spoke to me. The word of the Lord came to me is the way it says it in the Bible. The word of the Lord came to me in that very moment. And it was like a resonating voice inside of me. And he said, what is puss? And I opened my eyes and I'm kind of looking. Everybody else still head down, you know. And I'm thinking, what is pus? What kind of a question is that? But a lot of times the Lord will ask questions. In the Bible, we see it, and that's been my lived experience also. And I thought, well, puss is

blood. Puss is white blood. And instantly I knew what was needed. That moment, I knew what was needed for her healing. Because I had learned through the scriptures years before that when there are problems in the blood of any kind. And this could be the circulatory system. It could be the heart, could be things that create strokes, heart attacks, many different blood type conditions. Many, many, many times this is rooted in grief. And after praying for this woman for five years and going over her story again and again and again, I knew every dimension and corner and nook and cranny of her life. She had withheld nothing from me about everything she had ever done or thought about doing or I mean I had it all now you don't always have that benefit that's that's what pastoral care do is it you know let you develop that case

history with people but anyway I knew what this was and it was related to a very deep grief she had experienced when she was in high school related to um an early boyfriend and I put my hand on her shoulder I was sitting here on her left and I put my hand on her left shoulder it was my right hand. I just set my hand there. And I prayed an inner healing prayer, not a deliverance prayer. Deliverance is not inner healing. And inner healing is not deliverance. People often confuse them. That's one of those other ones. You said, what are some of the top things you wish Christians knew? Inner healing is not deliverance and deliverance is not inner healing. But I put my hand on her shoulder and I prayed an inner healing prayer over that pain, that grief that she had carried since her high school

years, so maybe seven-ish years. And at that moment, a bolt of power hit her body, and she jumped up off the couch. And she said, I've just been healed. And she'd been raised in a very traditional Bible-belt-type church where they still read the King James Bible. And she said, I felt virtue go through me. That's the language of the woman who was healed of issue of blood. And I said, you did? And she goes, yeah, look. And she lifts up her arm, this one that's next to me. And she pulls down the sleeve so that I could see her armpit. And she said, look, and I'm not kidding you, Ryan. There was a line about this long, which had been the fissure where the pus was leaking out of.

And it looked like a welder had taken a bead of welding rod and just sealed that thing up. There was a scar there. And it even had that kind of scalloping like you would see with a welder's rod. And it was closed. And then she turned and showed me the other one. She did not show me her groin, which was good. But, well, I mean, someone's going to think about it, so I might as well just answer the question that and ask. But she was healed of that.

And that night she came to the meeting in New York City. And she walked in and she walked up to me and she said, the downstairs is good too. And she has not had a recurrence or a problem since that day. So sometimes it pays to persevere with a different paradigm of what can be underneath these various unhealable conditions. and we might see a substantial percentage of them healed. Now, as I said, in our own community, we have a couple who haven't been, so I'm not quite ready to say 100% of the time. But I still think there's got to be something we're missing with those two ladies that I named,

and we may find those in this lifetime, perhaps. Wow. Okay. So, Ken, I do want to ask you this. You shared a wild story. I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about territorial spirits and just, it's funny. Father Martins has been big on not wanting to obsess or spend.

way too much time on the demonic hierarchy, et cetera. But one thing I have found interesting is that Paul does seem to delineate this organization, you know, our battle is against these cosmic powers and principalities. And I think you've shared in various stories that you've had experiences that sort of support this idea that there are governing principalities assigned to certain territories. And you had one particular story where you said after a particular entity was, I think, cast out or removed from an area. There was act, and I remember this because I had heard this from some people who do

deliverance ministry around the world that sometimes a natural environmental phenomena will accompany the removal of a malevolent entity over that, like a slamming the door on the way out. But you shared one about these volcanoes going off. So I wanted to prompt you on that story. Yeah, that happened in Central America and there was a mountain, a volcanic mountain. and its name was poas and poas happens coincidentally to be the name of a spirit so you know a lot of these central american and south american countries at least on the surface they're catholic or

maybe nowadays they're transitioning to be some sort of pentecostal but but you know for centuries they have been deemed to be you know christian countries but the locals especially you know in the countryside and up in the hills and so forth. Many times they're still engaged with the local deities. And one of the local deities there, its name was poas. So we'd gone up to visit this caldera and just, you know, a little bit of sightseeing while we were down there on a ministry trip. We ended up, you know, praying up there. And there was kind of a tremor in the earth. And we ended up feeling led to do it. I don't do this as a matter of course. But we felt led to address this. thing called poas and it set off a volcanic eruption we literally ran out of there because the whole

ground started shaking and you know this volcano we could look down into the caldera and it was dormant um but you know there's fire coming out so we literally ran to the the vehicles we had and drove down the mountain and got safely away but what was noteworthy i think was that when we got down into the local town where we were going to minister that night. We had this incredible outpouring of the spirit and many, many people came to Christ, many, many hundreds of people. So this eruption happened after you prayed? That night. So what happened? Did you, did the locals say, hey, this is the belief is that a spirit inhabits this mountain and then did you gather people to pray against it and feel the Holy Spirit said, because one of the individuals I talked to

who does deliverance ministry, said that they will pray and then they feel like the Holy Spirit will say, now it's ready. Now's the time to go remove this entity. So what was the process like? Well, we did not go up there to pray against anything. We went up there to observe the volcano and the caldera, just because it was there. Oh, for tourism? Yeah. So we were just taking a few hours off to have some fun as a team. That was it. Oh, okay. We got up there and we decided to pray in the parking lot because we could. So we were going to pray for the night meeting and just, you know, just pray. We weren't, we weren't, we weren't going after anything. But one thing many people don't realize, and this is part of the supernatural worldview that I mentioned earlier in this broadcast, is that spirits often like to live, if they're territorial, they like to live at the top of mountains and in the high places. And we see this language in the Bible. The people continue to worship at the high places. Well, what were they worshiping? they were worshipping demons because the Bible explicitly states that all of the gods of the nations are demons, other than Yahweh, whom we have been taught to call Father.

It's in Psalm 106. And the verses that if they want to reference this, look at Psalm 106 versus 34 down to verse 39. It's a whole passage, but it's in there. And Paul makes reference of this too in 1 Corinthians 10 when he talks about that there are demons behind. the sacrifices given to idols. And again, this is found in 1 Corinthians 10, look around verses 18 to 22. Again, old and New Testament give testimony to this. But unless you have a worldview, you could easily read these things and it would never sink in. You would just gloss over it. So demons live at high places. So here we are in the parking lot. We're praying. We're just interceding. That's all we're doing.

God bless the meeting tonight. You know, they're laying hands on me, help Ken to preach well, you know, just that stuff. We all know what those prayers are. And there's a tremor kind of goes through the earth. And one of our seers and one of our intersters are like, we need to take this thing on right now. And I had that sense, too. I just wasn't the one that said it aloud. And so we rebuked this spirit by the name of Poas. We commanded it to go and release its power over the region and get out. And the volcano begins to erupt. And because it begins erupting, now we got to get beat feet and get out of there. So we run to our cars and we drive down the mountain, helter-skelter, we get safely away. We go further down into the town where we ultimately will lead a meeting that same evening.

I'm emphasizing the details, so it is very clear what I am saying. And that night, there was an outpouring of the spirit in the church and hundreds of people came to faith. and what was interesting about that is they had not seen anything like that in many years. And so that spirit was somehow holding that piece of its territory in captivity such that the gospel could not break through. And the South American revivalist, particularly Omar Cabrera, has spoken of this. You know, he's not with us now, but he has spoken of this phenomenon. And so what he used to do in the great revival in Argentina is he would go into an area and pray sometimes for weeks before the event would happen, the crusade. And many times spirits would appear to him in his hotel room.

And they would throw him up against the wall and he'd wrestle it out with him. And so forth, I don't recommend this, by the way. I'm just saying what he had happened to him. When he had prevailed, the demons would be vanquished. And then revival could break out and many people could come to the Lord. Well, what ended up happening in the aftermath was not only did Poas, the mountain, erupt and explode, but there was a whole chain of volcanoes in the same, I guess basically along the same tectonic plate as Poas is on, that extends down into the northern tier of South America, Venezuela, Colombia, and so forth.

And they started erupting kind of in sequence. Now, they didn't all explode. But anyway, so it set off a chain reaction of volcanoes. I wouldn't say that's something. I don't have 20 stories like that. But that's what happened in that specific instance from that trip to Central America. It was before COVID, but I don't remember the year now. Wow.

All right. So, Ken, let me ask you this. As we land our plane here and take some take-home messages. One, let me ask you, what, from all your experiences and traveling all over the world, and I can't imagine how many millions of miles. I don't know what level of authority you walk in on Delta or United, which airline that you've sworn fealty to at this point. But I imagine you got some diamond elite status.

What are the ways right now that the enemy is targeting Christians that you would encourage and just want people to be aware of to say, hey, these are ways that he's coming after you because to be targeted is a compliment, right? If you're making an impact for the world and you're trying to follow God, he is going to it's like not a matter of if but when so what what would you say to those christians out there how can we be more aware of the ways the enemy is coming after us well one is fear i mean we live in very turbulent times and a lot of christians are very wrapped up in fear god has not called us to live in fear he is called us to live in victory now we can have fearsome circumstances around us but

yea though i walk through the valley of the shadow of death i will fear no evil So if you're struggling with fear, if you're wrapped up in fear, just know God has an answer for this. And he does not intend that you should live in fear. And you should grab that and anticipate and press in to get freedom from fear. You know, I'm always kind of, I don't know what word to use. Saddened. When I go to churches and I hear them singing, I'm no longer a slave to fear. I am a child of God.

but then you start talking to people and they start telling you about all the fear that they're in. So on the one hand, they're making the confession or the declaration. And on the other hand, they're not actually in victory over fear. And God does not want us living in fear. So that'd be one. I think a second one that a lot of Christians are going toward, this might be more towards the evangelical end of the camp, but there's plenty of it going around, are conspiracy theories.

most conspiracy theories, and this is far too big to unpack on this broadcast because we've got to go, but most conspiracy theories are rooted in Gnosticism. And so with that, there is a Gnostic spirit. It is a spirit of false teaching, and it often has a cross member or a tandem spirit that is a spirit of false prophecy. And it causes Christians to believe things that are untrue and that lead them into very bad places. mentally, behaviorally. And then I'd say a third one is this thing of syncretism, wanting to add something else to the truth and purity of the gospel. And I cannot believe how many people I run into who it's always Jesus plus something else. Oh, Jesus plus I need, you know, whatever, this patch or, you know, that substance or whatever. And I'm not talking about prescription drugs here when you're sick, you're sick.

that you know you take those until the lord heals you assuming he does but but i'm talking about it's never enough just to have it be jesus i got to have this other stuff too otherwise somehow it's not good enough it's not complete and that's why i'm doing all that and it is it is rampant and so if the lord be god follow him if bail be god follow him that's what the charge was years ago on mount carmel and i think we need to have another one of those a barbecue yeah big cookout elizs come on down to the cookout

last question for you can leave on an optimistic upbeat note since this is not all about demons and deliverance that's a hopefully small part of the christian's walk what is a time or something that just comes to mind what is a profound moment where god answered a prayer that was just really special for you it sounds like you've prayed for lots of other people and you've seen healings but just for those who need encouragement that god is a

Heavenly Father who hears the requests and prayers of his children. What's a time that God answered a prayer of yours and made you feel, wow, God sees me. Our youngest daughter had a very distressed birth. She was born with the cord wrapped around her neck three times. She was blue when she came out. She did not have an easy delivery, and so they had to use forceps to extract her. Her collarbone was broken while being born. She had a low Apgar score. It was a bad, bad delivery. And the gynecologist, the OBGYN, said, you know, don't worry, it's going to be fine. Well, it actually hasn't been fine.

Our daughter is not a normal child. We love her and we're thankful for what she can do, but she has never been a normal child. At eight years old, she still had not potty trained. And so it was multiple poopy diapers every day, wet diapers. It was a mess. and my wife and I were praying for her to be healed that she could at least use a toilet properly. And let me tell you, when you've been changing poopy diapers for eight years, and let me just say, eight-year-old poop isn't like an eight-month-old.

Oh, wow. Oh, my gosh. I love doing this before lunch. Thank you, Ken. Yeah, you're welcome. But it's an amazing story. So I went to preach at a church in Central California. And before I got up to speak, the pastor,

was doing the introductory remarks about this is Ken and who he is and how I know him and you know why you should listen and so on. So he's doing all that and in the middle of it the spirit of God comes on him and he literally stops in mid-sentence and he points at me and he says, Ken Fish, thus saith the Lord, within two weeks as a man in prison would count the days. The Lord will visit you with the same grace with which he just visited my son. Thus saith the Lord. And then he goes back to the introduction and that's the end of it. Now the backstory there, is that his son was also at that time eight years old. Both my daughter and his son were eight years old.

And his son has different problems, but has problems. And he had been healed of being not toilet trained that week his son had. Now, this was before my arrival. I'd had nothing to do with the healing of his son's inability to use the toilet. But he had been healed just that week. So I got back that evening called my wife and I said, hey, let me tell you about this word that I was given. My wife, she was pretty beat up with it all. And she was like, yeah, I hope so. So not really in faith about it, but sure, we'll take it if it happens.

Well, we start counting down because the word was clear within two weeks as a man in prison would count the days. Now let me say something here before I finish the story. many times people prophesy beyond their gift. And Paul admonishes us in the book of Romans. If a man prophesies, let him prophesy according to the measure of his faith. And many times people mistake presumption or solish confidence for true faith. But it is possible for people to prophesy with that degree of precision if they are under the spirit of God. And so it's really important that we know when we are under the spirit and when we're just articulating good wishes that we'd like to see come to pass. So we started counting down. We're testing the word.

I mean, we had nothing else to do. I mean, it was either going to continue to be what it was or it was going to change. So day 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6. On day 13, so one day to go, my daughter is sitting on the couch with a caregiver. Neither my wife are in the house. We were both away doing something else. And my daughter gets up off the couch, walks across the room, goes down the hall, into the bathroom, pulls down her own pants, uses the toilet properly, number two, by the way, not number one. When she's finished, she wipes herself and then throws her diaper in the trash. And from that day to this, she is not used to diaper.

Wow. Is she okay with us sharing this story? Yeah, she's fine. Okay. Wow. Well, that is not the note I thought we'd go out on, but it is an encouraging one nonetheless. Thank you, Ken. Wow. And appreciate you sharing all your wisdom. Where can people find out more about you and your ministry and resources if they want to get in contact with you? That is a tradition. You share stories like this. You will get some emails. Yep, no problem. They can go to our website, which is orbis ministries.org.org.org, not dot com, dot org. And Orbis is orbis. Orbis Ministries.org. You can write to us directly if you choose. at info at orbus ministries.org. We have resources there.

We have a store, et cetera. Come check us out. We'd love to journey with you. And yeah, Jesus is still alive and well. God is still on the throne and prayer changes things. And every knee will bow before the name of Jesus. Amen. Well, folks, you've been listening to the XRexter's Files and Ken Fish.

Thank you for joining us. And remember, the headspin stops here. Stay demon free, y'all. We'll talk soon. Oh