The Exorcist Files - The Blue Lady: A Father and Son's Battle with The Demonic

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

Rick Hansen had an unorthodox childhood. His father performed thousands of deliverances. In his book "The Blue Lady", Rick documents his father's journey from Christian, to Satanism, and back to Jesus. Thank you to our sponsors Add Graza Olive Oil to your summertime patio party arsenal. Visit https://graza.co/EXFILES and use promo code EXFILES  today for 10% off of the TRIO! FountofGrace- Click here to get a special discount on medals, sacramentals and other amazing jewelery. To get a copy of the Blue Lady- Click here. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello, Exorcist Files fans. Brian here. Just wanted to give a little bit of a trigger warning before today's episode. It is a little serious today. You will notice a lack of dad jokes. I think I make two or so in the course of two hours because the subject is very heavy. Today's topics include heavy occult activity and some pretty visceral stuff. So listener discretion is highly advised. I actually forgot to give a heads up to my editor when I sent him this to be edited and he responded and said, dude, you need to give me a warning. when you send something like this. So, listener discretion is advised. Also, if you haven't listened to the most recent dramatic case files, medium not well done, yes, you can guess who named that one, and ghost stories and family affair, do check them out. They're multi-parters and they're fantastic. And with that, I want to say we appreciate your support. I do say this probably every week, but it's because it's very, very true. Your support is really helping change the world. every week we get emails from people saying that they have been transformed by the show and its content. And I just want to say thank you for helping make this possible. And with that, let's put the pedal to the

miraculous medal. Here's my interview with Rick Hansen and his incredible story of the Blue Lady. Welcome back to The Exorcist Files. I am excited to bring you a very strange episode today. We are going to be interviewing the author of the book, The Blue Lady. And if you're wondering just who the Blue Lady is you're going to want to listen to this because on today's show, we have a new friend of the podcast who basically corroborates, I'd say, 95% of everything we've shared on this show. It was actually bizarre to see how often the Exorcist Files was referenced in his book, but I'm excited to introduce you to a new friend of the show. Rick Hansen is here to share his incredible journey through spiritual warfare. Rick, thank you so much for joining us today.

Hey, Ryan, it's great to be on your show. Thanks for giving me the opportunity. Look forward to talking about this story. Absolutely. All right, it is not often that I have to wrestle with where to begin in any of these stories, but I think it's probably helpful for our audience just to get a little taste that you are not some shaman living out in the jungles or the desert or some really charismatic mystic. But you're a businessman with MBAs and studied at Oxford. And so I think it'd be helpful people to know who is telling us the really interesting stuff. we're going to hear today. So, Rick, just give the fans a little taste of who you are and

where you're broadcasting from and a little bit of your background. Sure. So right now, I'm in Austin, Texas, moved here with my wife and three girls roughly 10 years ago from Southern California, originally. So the saddest part about the move is I get to surf on a lake now instead of the ocean, which I miss, but it's how we do it here in Texas because it's so hot all the time. Water is mandatory. But yeah, so I'm in global consulting, a senior tech executive. So by day, I just try to make stuff happen for Fortune 500, Fortune 100 companies from a selling standpoint and a solutioning standpoint. And then at the end of the day, I attend to my three lovely daughters, 21, 18, and 13. So they all turned these crazy milestone birthdays in one year. And then my wife is here also.

I'm a lone man in a house full of women. So you've been up in my office here sometimes as a nice reprieve. So happy to tell the story to this audience. Well, perhaps the scariest thing that you encounter in your walk is not the demonic encounters that you and your father have had, but perhaps the pending wedding bills that you have coming up. Yeah, don't even talk about that. That'll derail me entirely. But yes, those loom heavy in the background.

There you go. well, you know, you can accomplish all things through Christ who strengthens you. I know, but I want to be able to hear this because, you know, yeah, you're a fortunate on it. You're a business guy. You have an MBA and you study in Oxford, right? Yeah, I did. And it's odd to say this, but I would say what we're going to talk about actually is probably more real for me than being an executive in the business world is because it's been such an integral part of my life. But yeah, I don't want to talk about this stuff that often either because people do think this topic is weird.

And in truth, it is weird. But yeah, I'm just a normal dude, living in a life, trying to pay bills, love on my kids, love on my wife, and you get a surf in every now and then when I can. So I think I'm normal except for the fact of what I'm about to share. Absolutely. Well, let's dive in. A lot of what we're talking about today, you profile in a book called The Blue Lady. Take us back, I think, to the beginning and give us a little overview.

You had a really unique childhood because you got to sit at your father's feet and witness countless deliverances and prayers for people to be set free from demonic bondage starting at a very young age. Yeah, so just real quick, you know, the context is my dad was a believer, fell out of his faith, got into Satanism, got out of Satanism, came back to Christ radically. That whole story obviously is a lot to unpack, but he, from his experience in the darkness, God brought him to free people, obviously only through the power of the cross, but God began using my dad at my very young age as far back as I can remember. People would hear his story, this long before social media, any type of whatever.

It was all word of mouth. His story got out and people from as young as I can remember would show up at our house asking for help. It would usually be people who were possessed, oppressed, and he would bring them in and he would perform those in our house, roughly three to five days a week for years. So my living room became a place where demons were pulled and ripped from the souls of people and cast out in the name of Jesus.

And so it was, I say, as common as scrambling eggs in our house to see someone exercised from spirits. Now, again, not every single one was a possession. A lot of people were oppressed, but every experience was gnarly to say the least. And so it became very common for me to see that. And it became, that became my normal because it was such a common thing. And it's not that I went and shouted it from the rooftop,

nor did my dad ever hang a shingle out our front door saying, demons delivered here. But it was just the power of his story and the power of what God did through him that started to spread and bring in people more and more. And they would usually come either, they'd call on the phone or come in the front door. and say, are you the guy who deals with demons? And that was typically the cliche that would emerge. My dad would say, yes, how can I help?

So I think, and I, so I want to get to your dad's story since that's the Genesis. But one thing I found very interesting is you referenced the Exorcist Files a lot in your book. And so maybe you could just, for the fans, talk about your experience. When you first heard the show, one thing that is remarkable to me is the amount of similarities of things that you witnessed to what Father Martins had. as described in his case files. Yeah, it's a great point. And I want to thank you and Father for doing this because there's a part of it that

validated my entire young life and young adulthood life because of the stories I heard on the exodus files, because they were verbatim, obviously not the details of the person or the details of that exorcism, but the process of the exorcism, the stories that were told from the Ouija board to like the people being. possessed and how they were freed and the sound. That was my childhood. That was exactly my childhood and my young adulthood. So it was very real for me and it validated some things that I personally had been trying to tuck away and not share. Because again, not that I ever doubted the story of my dad, nor did I doubt the power of God, nor did I doubt the freedom that the people

experienced in a real way. But it's heavy. I mean, as your listeners known, as you know, It's a heavy thing, spiritual warfare, manifestations, deliverance, exorcisms. They're just flat out gnarly. And they're dark, initially followed by, you know, the brilliant light of freedom from Jesus. As I got married and then entered into professional life, I used to be a school teacher early on. And then I entered into corporate life. That part of my life became, on one hand, nonsensical. And then as I started to have kids, I didn't want them exposed necessarily to, you know, the same level of stuff growing up for them that I was exposed to.

Because it's heavy. It's hard. It affects the home. It affects the people. So when I did decide to tell them, which was just roughly probably three years ago, hence I've written the book since then, I wanted them to understand. understand the legacy of my dad's story, their grandpa, to really understand as they explored their faith, the power that is involved. And I don't mean power like we search after the power, but the power of the cross, the reality of how real the cross is and that it gives us victory over the darkness. And so when I shared with my kids this story, of course, their mouths dropped to the floor and they said, Dad, you have to tell this story. So that's started me on the journey. I kept it because of the heaviness of it. I kept it away and almost at the same time as when I bumped into the Exodus files. I heard actually Ryan, I heard you interviewed with Charlie on his show. And that's what it was before started. And then the podcast came up and I said, oh, I'm going to listen to it. And I was the first episode floored at the reality and the exactness that you portrayed on the podcast that I grew up watching in my house over and over and over and over

and over again. Amen. Father Martin's here. I want to do a quick plug for one of the most powerful tools I've seen for breaking free and growing closer to Christ. Exodus 90. The Exodus 90 challenge begins this year on January 20th. But this isn't just a 90-day program.

Exodus 90 is a speech. spirituality for modern men that is built on three ancient pillars, prayer, self-sacrifice, and fraternity. We all long for something more. We long to be the men God created us to be, sons of a loving father. It's time to turn away from our idols. It's time to break free from the pharaohs that hold us in bondage. If you're ready to make a fresh start and embark on a journey to uncommon freedom in Jesus Christ, then download the Exodus 90 app today. This is your chance to break free, refocus, and rediscover who God is calling you to be in the new year. It starts January 20th.

So go to Exodus 90.com slash X-Files to learn more about Exodus 90. That's Exodus 90.com slash E-S-Files. X files to join tens of thousands of men from all over the world for Exodus 90. Again, it begins Monday, January 20th. God bless you. Wow. Well, praise God. I'm so glad it was help.

But, all right, so let's dive in. So we have to start because your dad is the focal point of this. So your dad starts off as a Christian and then obviously takes a dramatic dark U-turn. But give us a little bit of that story. He starts off as was he just a conservative Baptist, kind of just a general Christian and heavily. One thing I think is interesting, he was very plugged in. It wasn't like a lukewarm Christian. He was very much a practicing Christian.

And it's amazing at how much of a dramatic detour he took. So give us a little bit of that story. Yeah, yeah, critical part of the story. Yeah, so he was not just a guy who said, yeah, I'm a Christian. I mean, he was like you said, plugged in. He was raised in the Midwest Baptist home. Their family was very involved in the church. his dad was on the elder board, Bible study, teacher, Sunday school leader, etc.

You know, large family. I went to church, had a conversion experience at a young age that he still describes in great detail about inviting Jesus into his heart and, you know, followed him through high school and college, got very involved. But during the process of his faith journey early, he was always very curious with what else is out there, like the supernatural stuff. I want to say, like, as a kid, it was Superman, not to Superman's evil, but that fascination of otherly things in the world. And so there was a curiosity there. And he's also very intentional about his pursuit and his relationship with God.

Always, always has been. But during the process, cutting the quick, he went through three pretty big church splits and really started to be disillusioned with the church, aka man. And he started to look at who God was through the behavior of people and started to become really disillusioned with that. I mean, that was, and he would say now still, that was his biggest mistake. He started to marry the behavior of people to what he thought God might be. So fast forward, he got married, married his college sweetheart, who was, again, and I'll tell you later, who I believe is the reason why he is still a. around in doing the ministry that he did because she was such a powerful prayer warrior.

But after their marriage, he became really disillusioned with his faith and started to do a comparative religion study of all the religions around the world. And he really, for a year, he studied Eastern mysticism, New Age, all that stuff, just to see what else is out there. And again, remember, you know, his curiosity as a kid was flamed a bit just by the idea of the supernatural, which I believe Satan used to further him down the road of darkness when he became so disillusioned. There was a period of time after his studying the world's religions that he realized it boiled down to two things. There's a good and there's a bad. But he never negated the feeling that he had and the notion that he had and the truth that he knew that when he accepted Jesus in

his heart, that that was the peace that he longed for. There was always that in his head and his heart and his mind, but he became so frustrated and so intellectually stimulated by the disaster of what man looked like and how he represented God, that he chased the bad. I was already born. I was young, young kid at the time, so I don't remember his experience, but I was alive. And he was at the throes of his disillusionment and testing the boundaries of good and evil, God and Satan. And he was walking down the hallway. in his house and he heard a voice tell him go and turn on the TV. Now he paused. He's like, well, that's weird. Why would I, why would I want to go and do that? But, you know, he was again

searching for anything that might be more real than what he felt. So he said, okay, so when he turned on the television, there was a documentary on the show and right at the throes of the screen manifesting was a show filming Anton LeVay, who was the head of the Satan church in San Francisco. And it turns out that the local show in LA was doing documentaries on gnarly things that were coming out of Hollywood, drugs, porn, and the occult. He happened to turn on that night, the one where they were focusing on the occult and the TV cameras had actually gone into the church, the satanic church, and were filming a service. And when it turned on, he kind of chuckled because he was like, oh, this is, come on, this is really kooky. and he saw some of, you know, the symbolism, the upside down cross on the back of the wall. He saw people manifesting a faith.

And he kind of went, hmm, that's interesting. This is, this looks obviously not the church that I know, but there are a lot of people doing something around a faith. And then he said, Anton LeVay started to preach and pray to Satan. And he said, he was so enthralled by. again, I say faith in quotes, but the faith that he was praying to Satan, it was as though he remembered that same type of faith coming from like Billy Graham Crusades and he was growing up. So he was like, wow, this is bizarre. So he kept watching and mocking a bit, but there was a point in the service where he saw some power and felt a power come from the service. And

it pricked his intense curiosity for something else. And in his rage of frustration with the church, he said, okay, God, Satan, if you're real, I want you in my life. And God, I don't want any part of you anymore. So he literally, like a believer would invite Jesus into your heart, he pushed God out, Kit got out and invited Satan into his life. I guess you could say that would be a, I mean, that was not a slow matriculation of him drawing Satan in. The process was slow up until then, but my dad's heart and spirit were ripe for that evil, and he dove headlong into it.

And he- It's a good reminder of like how you got to balance that curiosity with this stuff. So it's convicting because you're like, you know, humans have much. morbid fascinations with like villains, car wrecks, like dark sides. Like it's just, it's probably the fallen nature, right? And so basically, your dad has the horrible, perverted inversion of the altar call that we see on Sundays. Yeah. And he was always, again, looking for the experience of of a power, you know, like you said, that that our flesh wants and their, Therefore, our spirit is drawn to.

And so when he saw that power emanate from Anton LeVay in the service, he was immediately hooked. And he said when he made the confession, he said he was instantly filled with such dark hatred and anger and rage at the name of Jesus specifically that he had never felt before. It wasn't a slow, like, let's turn the volume. It was an instant hatred towards the person of Jesus Christ. And that's when he knew he was on to something because my dad, by nature, is loving and kind and gentle. He's a big teddy bear. And he's always loved on people and people have always loved him. There was never been a hate bone in his body.

Sure, there's frustration. but when he said when he did that, he was filled with hate. Of course, that's when the possession hit because he opened his doors wide. It wasn't a, you know, it wasn't a, hey, I'm going to do some things for a while and Satan snuck in. He opened the doors. And that was when, that's when it started. That's when he was enthralled by that experience. But interestingly enough, he went to bed, excited because of what he felt, thrilled by the

potential of this new life and this new opportunity to satiate something that he'd been struggling with for his whole life. But he woke up the next morning expecting some type of power to be in him or on him or some type of radical experience. And he said it was quiet. It was silent. It was like nothing had happened. So then he started to think, great, this is just another thing like Christianity that promises a wow factor and gives you nothing. but he pressed in and he pressed in more and more and he found the more that he pressed in through, and this sounds weird, but through prayer and devotion and like a believer, praise to the Lord, he dove in as hard with Satan.

And slowly things started to materialize for him in a physical sense, in a mental sense, that started to get him to see that this was real. And then over the next, you know, two and a half years is where he just got, once that switch was flipped and he saw that it was real, the spirits then, the deeper he got and the more intense the commitment he gave to Satan, the more the spirit started to satiate his lust for manifestations of things in power. How old were you when this was going on? I was probably one or two. Okay, so you weren't old enough to recognize it. I'm curious, would your mother say that she started to notice, you know, because we become that which we dwell on? You know, there's fruits of the spirit, right? Peace, patience, joy, and kindness. I'm curious. Would your mom say she noticed, like, was this all hidden from her? Did she notice something? How do you hide this? Great question. He, so she didn't know. I mean, the short of the long is she didn't know what he did. She didn't know what was. She didn't know what was. was happening, but to your point of the fruits, he did start to change. And again, like I said,

I emphasized the fact that my dad is always kind and loving because that's what he was known for. But that's the part that started to pivot that she started to see. And he became angry. He became hostile. He became bitter. But he was also able to, because, in this may sound weird, but because he felt it was such a sacred discovery for him, he kept it to himself because he also knew that she was a believer, obviously, and didn't want her to, I guess she could say, spoil his discovery by God or sharing something that he fully didn't understand with her because he didn't want it wrecked. So for the entire time of his Satanism experience,

not until the very end, the very last day of his freedom, she did not know what he was into, but she did know that he became the man that she did not marry. And it was a evolution over time where the rage and his behavior as a husband to her and as a believer radically faded into the darkness. Yeah, it's amazing how he was able to hide that, especially one of the two. Because one of the things that comes up too on this show, and this is a weird. conjecture, but like if the two or one flesh and one side has now attempted to eject the Holy Spirit and actually now fallen into, like, you know, ownership of now, you know, by the other entity, does that transfer right? So, I mean, there's some bizarre, maybe unfruitful questions that arise

from that. But it's interesting to say that he was able to hide that. When did things, you know, you mentioned in the book that there comes a point, and there's also another story that confirms us that I want to ask you about. But you mentioned this culminated into a point where, again, in the perversion, God asks us to have our bodies be living sacrifices to discern his pure and pleasing will. The more we pour into God, the more he tends to, you know, show up in our lives. It seems the evil kingdom has similar precepts. Your dad at one point had an encounter, right, where he was asked to turn over, right? And to be received that power, he would have to grant his new master authority over certain things, but he held back on some stuff. Tell us about that moment.

Yeah, so I'll bring up the Blue Lady here because I think it's important. The book was titled. So he was an artist and a photographer. And at night when he'd come home from teaching because he was a educator for junior high kids, he'd paint. He had a studio in the garage and he would paint. and while probably in the middle, towards the front middle-ish of his time, as his powers grew, as his intensity grew, as his devotion increased, he felt this, and as his appetite grew for more and more power from Satan, there was a moment at night where he felt similar to the voice that said, go and turn on the TV. This voice said, go in the garage and paint. and he told my mom specifically he said don't bother me and I was around and he said keep Rick out of the garage I'm going to close the door and I'm going to paint don't disturb me he went and in the garage he put a canvas up on the easel took the paints and he said the minute that his hand touched the brush that

then touched the canvas something took over and started to paint through him on the canvas and he was very aware of the power in him doing the work. It was as though he was outside of himself, watching himself do the painting. And what he painted, he said, was the most beautiful thing he had ever done and or seen on canvas. And it was the picture of what he called, and we called the Blue Lady. And he was so thrilled by the power that he felt come through him in the evidence. of a tangible asset on canvas before him, it was one of those moments that ticked up his faith exponentially.

And what he typically liked to do with his painting, he'd paint, and then he'd take him back to his room, the bedroom, and hang him on the wall before he goes to bed. So he'd kind of look at his work and kind of stand back and have a distance, a separation from the craft of the work to then let me look at it and see if it's really good. And so he took the blue lady back, but an important part, before he did that, and when it was done, he was told by the spirit that you need to bow down to this painting and kiss it hundreds of times and say that you worship it. and that was the moment where he had to commit that this was his guiding spirit, this was his demon,

this was the thing that was going to control. So he brought the painting back to the room, thrilled by what he just experienced, so excited that he wanted to show my mom. He wanted my mom to see the creation. But more importantly, he wanted to see her reaction to the painting. Because again, he knew that she was a believer and that. she was devout to her faith, and her faith was simple and quiet, but very profound. So we hung it on the wall, and she said, you know, what are you doing? He said, I mean, hang this up. I'm going to know what you think of it. And as soon as he put it on the wall, and she looked at it, she said,

I want that thing out of this room. I cannot, this is a horrible thing. It scares the heck out of me. Get it out of our room. And I don't want to ask, I mean, I don't want to give it undue attention, but was this a drawing of like someone like a real woman? It was ethereal. It was blue. And he said it was a beautiful woman, not like a, it was an exquisite woman, but it was more of a mixture of kind of a human and spirit form. It was more artistic than like photographic kind of thing. 100%.

Yes. Okay. Very much so. So he was thrilled by her negative reaction because that meant to him the power was real. So he moved it out into, oddly enough, back to your question about what he was asked to give. He knew there was power. And in the moment, he was going to go and put it in the hallway by my room. But he didn't want to because there was something in him that said, I can't have that near my son for whatever reason, called, you know, God or his father instinct.

And so he moved it down the hall so that anyone that would walk in the house, friends, family, neighbors would be forced to look at it and then he could see their reaction. And every time he could see what their response was. And so over time, it turns out everyone that walked into the house looked at the painting and nine out of ten times people would say, that thing scares the heck out of me. And it was the eyes. They would always talk about the eyes of the painting, that the eyes would literally follow them and look at them.

and it would haunt them. And so this, you know, obviously not the painting. You know, Mona Lisa kind of thing? Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, it was, everyone was horrified by the painting, which again, infused his faith with assurance that this is real. And I have power. And that power is coming through me on to canvas.

And I'm tricking people. So to him, it became this thing where he was, you know, he was still going to church at the time, by the way. He was still with my mom. He wouldn't go all the time, but he was still going to church. And occasionally, because he had a beautiful voice. He sang in college. He would sometimes even sing in the choir at church while he was in this. And while he was in choir, he would look out and in his head mock the congregation because of, he would be like, they have no idea what I'm doing or what I've tripped up. on. And this goes back to his cynicism of man and God and Christianity. And so he looked at the Christians as weak, unintelligent as, you know, like, I can pull this wool over your eyes and no one will know what I'm really into. And I can do it right in front of your face. So it became not a game. I don't want to minimize or, you know, trivialize what it was, but it did become in him. I think we can talked about this later, what spirits do is they, you know, they mock and they sneer and they jeer,

especially for people outside looking in to find the Lord. There's this heightened cynicism. Christians are ridiculous, is the thing. So, but as he got more and more into it, back to your original question, he was asked to give Satan everything. And he said, I gave, I gave, I gave him my bills. I gave him my money. I gave him my job. I gave my cars. I gave my house. But I couldn't give him me, his son or his wife. He said, I just couldn't. It was something I could not give because I knew ultimately they weren't mine to give. Was this an overt out? Was this like a moment where he actually heard a voice like the TV and there was like a ceremony or was it more just like a thought that occurred? in prayer, like a Christian would in prayer. Like a leading of the spirit, if you will. Correct, correct.

Yep. So he gave him everything, but he couldn't give him me, and he couldn't give him my mom, which frustrated him because it was something that he didn't feel he had control over it, but he wanted this, like the more he got into his Satanism, the higher his knee and want of control of things and of others. So we'll keep going here. you basically said, you can have everything in my life except you can't touch my kids and my

wife. Those are not, those, I'm not turning this over, right? And in exchange for that, did he start to experience empowerment? Maybe you could talk a little bit about it because I think one of the things that we profile in this show is that a lot of people, we like to highlight cases where people get set free, but we have in season two for the first time, particularly in our story predatory, you know, we have a kid who refused to turn his life over. And, I think it's a commentary on just how a reflection of how insidiously addictive some of these sinful powers are, and it's hard for people to come out of them. So was your dad being empowered with demonic gifts as a result of turning this stuff over?

That was the thing that drew him in deeper and deeper, because, yes, it was a sense of empowerment, but he also started to receive powers. What were the, you could talk a little bit, what kind of things, when we say powers, what kind of things were those? Sure. So it started off small, he said, like he knew when the phone was going to ring before it rang. He knew who was going to be at the front door before they knocked on the front door. He'd be in phone calls where he knew what the person was going to talk or ask or discuss before they started. He knew what people were thinking. That was his first kind of, again, after the painting, and as your show talks about a lot, you know, the more. The more. you give the spirit, the more it gives you so that you stay enticed and your appetite grows because what once was really amazing. Yeah, now I can know who's at the front door before they come. That becomes rudimentary. Now I want more. And so he got to a point where he could literally

with his thoughts control sometimes what people would do. He could in his thoughts, like he was at a church concert, and it ended. And the, like the crew that sang was out front. And he wanted, he said, okay, Satan, I want more. I want more. And so, again, the voice said, okay, tell that girl who was the star, what to do. And he said, well, how? And it was, use your thoughts and tell her to do something.

and he paused, you know. And then in his head, he told her to take, I can't exactly remember, but two steps to the right. She took two steps to the right. Then he said, okay, that was coincidence. There's no way that can really be. Then he told her to move back, and she moved back. And he started to see, and that, you know, those things started to happen more and more, where he could now not just know who's coming, but he could also start to impact.

people with his thoughts, which again fascinated his sense of power. Were these Christian? Are these ordinary people? Some are Christians. Yep. Some are Christians and some ordinary people. That, theologically, I don't have a box for it because I think it's established that demons can't, you know, know your thoughts externally.

That being said, your dad at this point probably has a bunch of critters living inside of him at this point, so they know that. But then how could they influence others? Or is it, you know, the other thing, too, is do you think it's also possible it was an illusion that the demons were hijacking his sensory inputs? Because there's a, there's an area here where you go, how ostensibly could someone being filled Holy Spirit and a righteous Christian just be moved sideways left or right by the thoughts of a possessed person? And you have to wonder if, I mean, it's, do you speculate it could be deception like we've talked about when people see, you know, when Manzina Branken mentioned seeing someone turn into a wolf? And he's like, I don't think it was an actual wolf, but like, if a guy is a guy is a guy. your dad is so indeweled now with evil. Like, it's like, you know, all's fair, right? I mean, he could be hallucinating stuff, right? Totally.

And that's, you know, and there's, again, I don't know the state of someone's soul. Or I, and I don't know, you know, the commitment level that he or she did when they said I became a Christian. So I don't, I don't know. He didn't know anything about the person who he was doing it with. And it could have been. I mean, again, I'm, I don't hold fast to, you know, the trickery of Satan because I know he does what he does to draw us in as much as he can through whatever means necessary. And yeah, I mean, maybe it was that. But when my dad talks about it,

it was as convincing as the sun, the moon, the stars, the grass, you and me here. So it was that real for him. And there were other experiences like that where it just jacked up his faith. so much because he saw results. So he had knowledge of the unknown. He had the ability to seemingly by his, he was maybe led to believe that he could manipulate other people's actions. I mean, he would, you know, when he was really hungry for, quote unquote, learning more in fellowship, I say fellowship, meaning with other people in his state,

because he was never a member of a cult. He was never a member of a satanic church. He was just headlong into seeking this other power. So he was very devoted, but he wasn't part of a community. But what would happen is that a voice would say, go get in your car, drive down to downtown LA, turn right here, turn left, turn right, and go into this bar or place where he would meet up with people who were in a similar state or probably in some type of COVID. and they would fellowship about how everything works in the power and the darkness. And he would be thrilled because he could talk to some other people who were in the same darkness or the realm that he was. And that would ignite his faith when he learned what they, you know, he never told me what they talked about.

But he said it was specific as to where he was told to go and park and walk into and look forward. and that would happen. Wow, that's so crazy. All right. So your dad is basically now empowered and but is not as refused to place you guys under that. And interestingly, we'll come back to but you had a story in the book as well where you counseled a woman whose parents were in a similar occult involvement situation and maybe you could share. In their case, they went all in and actually did dedicate. Tell us about that time in Oxford with just because I think people need to hear. We've documented this in the show, but it's so sick and sad to think about, but there are parents who literally take their children. I don't want to detail it too much, but like, I mean, in a really horrible grotesque ceremony, you met someone who was dedicated to Satan as a baby or as a kid, I should say, by her parents.

Yep. So because more and more power and a lot of the people that my dad has counseled, and I'm sure father as well, giving of a child sacrifice is a huge step in in the growth of power distribution from Satan. And it's the kids that he wants because then he's able to control the future, their lives, and really infest the parent, for example. But this lady, I was at Oxford and she was studying as well. And again, I didn't walk around with a billboard or a t-shirt. about my story, but I became good friends with a few guys. And, you know, eventually you wind up

sharing your story or things. And I talked to them about, you know, my dad's story and how important that is in my faith and why it just, you know, makes following God so important and so much more real because of the stuff I've seen. So anyway, so that story got out from them. And this woman approached me and she said, hey, I hear you have kind of a crazy story. And, you know, I'm sure like you and father. It's always like, you know, do I want to share with her? What is her angle? What, you know, what is the, she going to be a wacko? Is she going to call me a wacko? What's, you know, there's always just a cautionary hesitation before I talk about this because you just don't know. And I don't want to cast Pearl Before Swine. So I said, yeah, what's, what's your interest in the story? She's like, I,

I just like to learn a bit more. I think there's something that would help. And so I told her the story. And she's like, I've been, I think I have something. in me that you're talking about, that your dad dealt with something that's not me, but something that's not of this world. And I think I need help. I've been in counseling for years and years and years and years. And it subsides every now and then, but it is still heavy. And she was about to get married. And so she said, I need to deal with whatever this is. I need help before I get married because I think I can't bring whatever this is. And so she was very cognizant of the fact that there was something in her.

She just didn't know what, maybe, you know. So I asked her to tell the story. And she's like, all I know in my head is that I was, I have an image of when I was young and in my bed where my parents were making a noise. And I see this cross above my head dripping in blood. And that thought, that vision has never left me. And it comes up in counseling sessions, but no one has ever dealt with what that might be or what that was. And I said, well, that was them in a ritualistic ceremony giving the spirits rights to you.

And so she said, I need to talk more. I need help. I said, well, okay, I will meet with you, but if you bring someone and I will bring a friend, because I didn't, you know, that stuff, you just don't do alone ever. But she was so aware of the otherly within her that when we sat down, you know, there's always a process. There's a talk to me about your story. How did it happen?

How do you feel? Because in that conversation is when you can start to see where they opened a door or a door was opened to them and for them so that you can better understand what they are under attack for. So she told me about that story. And I said, okay, let's pray. And no sooner had I started to say, dear Lord, she knew that the spirit was going to manifest. And then it manifested, oddly enough, in the voice of and the shape of a young kid. And she's a grown woman, fully adult.

Who is training to be a high-ranking vicar in the church. and was actually going to be, yeah, I mean, like, you're at Oxford, the place of C.S. Lewis and Tolkien, Chesterton, and, you know, and she's training at the highest levels of theology and yet has this thing that she was also, I found the search because she's well aware of it. And it makes you wonder, you know, are we all aware of our own sort of, you know, issues that we've had? And it's funny that I wonder if it was her tradition, training, or just like lack of knowledge of the fact that this isn't normalized that people have these issues. And they're just taught, oh, we can't do have anything about it and then she meets you and goes oh my gosh you might and then that's like i remember

in the story you said she's like oh i can feel it coming on it was she was so intimately familiar with this thing she'd been carrying around it was mind-boggling that was the first one i had seen someone so readily like you said say okay here it comes because she was so comfortable with it what i think in my experience is that in all her years of counseling no one dealt with that as a spiritual manner. No one. No one understood it, I'm sure, or was willing to delve into it. And it didn't make sense until, not that I'm special, not to my dad is special, but until the story that was told about this spiritual warfare and the reality of the other side existing in this world impacting everyone was so real. And it wasn't until that, I think, you know, to your point,

inside she knew that but no one had validated that or said yeah this is the thing and so it was never clear but in our session it was crystal clear to her and but again it was interesting that the spirit manifested as a child because often what I've seen you know they manifest in the adult form of the person that we're dealing with you know in the spirit that it is but it's usually you know this grown thing, but she shrunk into her childhood where it started. So yeah, and we've talked to us in the show, and that opens up all sorts of, you know, there's parental authority. And when you fling the door open to the spirits, it's just, it's just awful.

We'll come back to that encounter. But so your dad, you know, now by the God's grace and perhaps it was the power of your praying mother, I also find in the story, too, it's like even like the garrisoned demoniac where they run forward, right? It's like that act of even in the full throws of possession, there's still this always there's always hope there's always like there's always a resistance against this evil and so it's you know it sounds like there's this there's this corner of your this whole this remnant in your father's heart which knows he's in rebellion and evil but he still knows there's i can't cross this

line right but yeah um but tragically you know the things would get even a little worse right so Satan couldn't have you and the wife but he wanted the wife out of the picture um because she was praying a lot so walk us through you know your dad's now in the throes of empowerment and doing all this stuff. Where are we out in the journey now? Because from the book, I recall, you know, the Spirit Realm is cleanly aware that your mom is a spiritual Christian and praying, and they want to do what they can to get rid of her because she is an obstacle to

this and the Blue Lady. And also, perhaps tell us to me, first, that the Blue Lady's influence, you mentioned she became a guide. You know, what was that like? Was she constantly talking to your father and guiding him? Like, was it like a, you know, that became his spiritual master, if you will? Yeah, I mean, that absolutely was his spiritual master. And he would again talk to it when, and oddly enough, when he wouldn't get the powers that he wanted from her, from Satan, he became very angry at the spirit and would literally move the painting in the garage because he was like, you know, give me what I want.

Well, then I'll take you out in the garage. So he would interact with it, even though it was a still portrait as though it was a live spirit because he prayed to it. upon it, and he knew, and it told him, you have to get rid of her, meaning my mom. She has to go. She's the one who was ultimately putting a stymie in your potential of the power you can have from us. Now, let me back up a bit, because I think this is super important for the audience that and God's sovereignty, that almost to the day my dad got involved in Satanism, and they

discovered this after, my mom got involved in, and I don't know if it's still around Bible Study Fellowship. And it was a national program. It was this intensive Bible study that you would do on a weekly basis. And you'd really dive into the word and really learn about the Lord. And as her faith exploded in this Bible study with other women, his faith exploded in the spirits. And so there was a parallel path that I believe was sovereign by the Lord

to encourage and comfort and build my mom to be able to withstand that journey of darkness because she never preached at him. The worst that he got, she didn't, I mean, she was inside hurting and aching and confused and angry and not knowing what to do, but the only thing that she did always was to put a Bible by his bedstand at night, every day. So the spirits knew that she was the tie to the faith and that she had to go. So, At the end, she'd be the only one who would go to church on Sunday, usually stay at home, and that's where he would really worship. And this one Sunday, she went to church, and he knew that he had to find a way to end this. And so he got into a trance.

And this is going to get out of the marriage? Yes, correct. Yeah, out of the marriage. He was in a trance while she was at church, and he was asking for a spirit to materialize to look like a human. woman, a person, a woman. And as again, back to our conversation about did it really materialize, like, did that person really take a step to the right or to the left, to this day, it was as clear to him as, again, I see you on the screen right now, that this spear started materialized.

And as it was materializing, my mom called home from church to see if it's okay if she goes out to lunch with her friends. Broke the trance. He became furious, swore, cussed, slammed the phone down, and went and grabbed that Bible that she always put on his bedstand and threw it against the wall in a fit of utter rage and just started to cuss and put words together. He said he's never put together in rage at not just God, but again, at Jesus. And I think it's important that that is brought up because Jesus is the one, obviously,

who defeated them on the cross and who they hate. And so his rage came from their hate in him, out of him, through him as he, as he threw the Bible, cursed and yelled and screamed at God. And radically, because God is sovereign and his power is greater than the prince of the air, he said a presence came in the room of utter power. But it was of people. and of calm. And it entered the room in the midst of his rage. And he said, what do you want, God? And that's when things radically started to turn.

And he sensed the presence. And it was similar to the experience that he had when he was a young kid, when he invited Jesus into his heart. So he recognized that peace that he'd longed for. But it was a peace filled with power. and he bent over and he picked up the Bible that he just hurled against the wall and read through all of Psalms and all of Proverbs while my mom was gone. And for the first time for him, Psalms was a revelation because he saw the honesty of Psalms

where the writer would be frustrated with God and horrified by the circumstance that they were in, but yet they would then praise the Lord. or they would, you know, in the Psalms it talks about all the time, I cry out to you, where are you? So as he read that, he saw man struggling with God in a real way that he never learned how to. And then he read Proverbs, which is filled with wisdom. And that's when his soul, that's when the real fight started. And didn't you say, when he said, what do you want God, right?

And I remember this and he said, Jesus said, I want my son back? Yes. Yeah, just so. Yeah. So beautiful there. And so, yeah, so this is like a climactic point in the book there, right? So your dad, in the throes of Satanism, Jesus now rescues, or is like, come to the rescue here? And does your dad describe attention?

At this point, was there a part of him you think that was desiring freedom and God was showing up to that? Or do you think it's always so interesting there? But, you know, he recognized that piece. There's probably a part of him that had missed this. And, but there came a turning point. So he decided at some points, did he. have a repentance or what was the moment when he said, okay, I do miss this. I want to return to God. Well, it was a series of things. He really got into this to experience the power and be filled with

power and to control things. But the deeper he got into it, the more he realized that he was controlled and it became more of a state of chaos where he couldn't control his thoughts. He couldn't do the things that he wanted to. I mean, at one point, he tried to take his life and he in his car, he had decided, I can't take this anymore. And this was before the moment we're through the Bible up against the wall, but he was driving and he was going to drive himself into an embankment. And he said at the last moment, something grabbed the steering wheel and turned it and pulled him away from the embankment. And he got off the freeway and drove home and cursed God the whole way home. But he was so, he realized at that point,

that he was not in control of anything. So when back to the story where he was on the edge of his bed and God said, I want you back, that's when he started to realize there was something deep in him and something deeply wrong that he didn't want him more because what used to be this wonderful search for power became this imprisonment of hell on him and around him that he could no longer control. And so when that peace entered the room, that's when he said. said, this is what my heart has longed for. This is what I felt before. This is what I want and this is what I need. All right. So how did your dad get free? Because spoiler, right? Your dad ultimately

comes back as we've established. So what was that moment like when he said, all right, I'm ready to come back home. And what did Jesus decide the thing to do in that moment was? Yeah. So my mom came home from church and my dad had, you know, gone through that moment of revelation that things changed. And he greeted her at the door. And she usually is used to him being furious and in a rage. And she, and he said, something's changed. And I've changed. And I don't know what's going to happen next, but I need you to pray with me. Of course, she's not just going to jump into his arms and go, okay, great. I mean, there was a severe, cautionary tale on her mind. about is this real, what's happening.

But it was so real to him that she understood that it was a transition. And that's when she started to realize. And that night when the spirit was released from him is when she first heard of his two and a half year or two year journey with Satan. Because again, she didn't know. But that night, he said, you know, I need you to pray for me because I think something's going to happen. I just don't know what.

and I don't know what to do. He said, I think something's got to come out of me. Of course, my mom is also from a small Midwest town, and this heightened her spidey senses like nothing ever has before. She got scared, but as she's always done, she prayed. And through the grace of God and through his sovereignty, and because the intensity to escalate to such a point, God ripped out those spirits from him one by one.

There were 12. spirits that were ripped from him that were given names that he had to call out by name, tell them that they had to leave in the name and the blood of Jesus Christ. Now, he had never known how to do that, but God walked him through the freedom. God walked him through the process. Do you think this is one of those cases where maybe for the sake of you and your mother that God was like, hey, we got to deal with this right now? Because obviously, if anyone else was the experience, what your dad did, we would have them in a room full of praying Christians and counselors, and we would like do that. But this is like a private thing. And I've heard stories like this.

So essentially, Jesus, the Holy Spirit put on his mind, these are the things you need to start revoke. It's almost like he was doing extreme renunciations like we talk about with the masonry and stuff, but at extreme level. And so, and I'm curious. So he was, you know, see, started the Holy Spirit's putting on his heart. These are the things you need to call out. And also, it's not a mystery, right? He probably knows who he needs to renounce, period. But what's interesting is there's other things that have come in there. And then was he miraculously healed one and done? Or was there fallout? I'm curious, after he gets set free, did he get immediately plugged back into church and then get under, you know, any sort of pastoral counseling where there residual effects?

Obviously, in this show, a lot of the case we profile, many of the exorcists will say that it's extraordinarily rare for someone to be one and done, especially, you know, with a long history of this stuff. But what was your dad's moments like after being triaged spiritually and then going forward? Yeah. So I think what's important to your point is that the event of the exorcism is, and again, I don't want to minimize this, but the event is a one and done. Those demons are ripped from you. But again, because of the power you've given them and how you have trained your heart and mind and soul to think, those things don't just go away.

there is a repurposing, there is a cleansing, there is a training that has to happen. Well, you have a lot of level, right? You have neuro pathways that I've always thought about this, that, you know, there's probably also certain actions that you take that scar, in the same way we know that pornography scars the mind, you got to, you know, from a frying the synapses, you got to think at some point, right, he has all these thoughts and the negative scarring, you know, I think heard Father Rehill say that the confession, the repentance, the deliverance, that patches the hole up on the wall, right? But there's still the damage that's been done there. And then obviously, God can

heal all things. But so you're saying this was a, like, all right, the spirits have been evicted, but it's like, all right, parties over, close the door, the last guest is left, but the house is a mess. Correct. Again, because he didn't know, my mom didn't know how this stuff worked, if it worked, but I believe in my experience that God knew that the plan for my dad was to use him to help to fear other people. So I think his experience was unique in that he learned about it firsthand right away. And then shortly thereafter, I told you this the other day, but, you know, he got rid of the Blue Lady that was A-Step, and he thought they would leave with the painting going away, which they didn't. Shortly after, his own encounter, a student of his brought a painting to him and said,

I did this painting last night, and it was amazing. I felt this power come through me, and I had to kiss it and bow down to it. But I love you to look at it as an artist. What do you think? And the painting was almost exactly to the tea of his painting of the Blue Lady. And he was able to then share his story and pray over her. And that started his understanding of the conflict and the power of the spirit world. So from his dark experience to his personal freedom,

he was then brought people to be free. from this encounter. And so to your point, he didn't just, okay, that's great. That's done. That was a horrible two and a half years. Now things are great. I mean, those spirits do, because you gave them authority, they aren't allowed to stay, but they do come. And to your point, you've trained yourself to think and believe and act a certain way. And so there's old pathways, there's old behaviors, there's those ruts in the road that don't just go away. You've got to rip up those reps over time. And my dad is in his 80s. now still doing this and he still has battles because again we live in the realm of the prince of the air and so you know that conflict is constant but there is he did spend you know he devoured the

word himself and just ran to god as opposed to from god because if you remember his hunger was always i just want what's true i want what's real and when he realized that he was deceived and destroyed all those years and potential destroyed, you know, my mom, he pursued Christ with a vengeance, I guess I could say in his soul to seek after the truth of what he once ignored and chastised. But interestingly enough, though, too, is that, you know, Satan gives us things that we can see and touch and feel or be perceived as to lure us and to keep us. God wants us to believe and trust in him with faith. So he was disillusioned at first with where's the power?

Where's the until he started to again dive back into the peace that was brought to him and to pursue his faith with a discipline and a belief in the unknown and in the unseen? But that's where also that's where the story of Jesus to him first became super powerful because of what he experienced in his own deliverance. He saw Bible stories that he'd heard about in Sunday school, all the stuff that he thought was ritual and ceremony. That became real life to him, and it forever changed him. And because of that, that's why that has made my faith so tangible,

because I saw the wrestling match my whole life. Did your mom notice a different sort of way? And I'm curious that he have to catch her up on a lot and be like, Like, honey, you'll never guess what happened to me today. I imagine there's a lot to fill her in on. A lot of stories, a lot of stories to be told at the time and a lot of unraveling and a lot of, you know, healing. Not, you know, it's actually still going on because my mom went, my mom literally went through hell. Oh, I can't imagine what you would go.

I mean, also just the, I mean, because obviously there's no way she didn't know something was off of their husband, but she had no idea the level of depravity that he had sank to. there's years of rebuilding trust. I mean, it just wild. But let's spin this into the beautiful verse that, you know, God uses all things for the good in this weird way. And people who have been touched by the darkness, speaking of our Oxford friends in Tolkien,

those who've been wounded by the Nazgoules, they have more insight into that realm now. So your dad, you know, has two options, is one lament and just be like, oh, my gosh, what did I do? I threw my life away. Or saying now he actually is in a unique position to say, I know how real evil is, and I've experienced it firsthand.

And so he is, in one sense, now uniquely equipped to go on offense against the enemy. And so how did your dad start moving into, I imagine your dad started moving into deliverance because anything you've been set free from, you probably have such a deep heart for. And so he knows, and I imagine he probably still retained some insights of the enemy's tactics. Sounds like an agent being turned, right? Now, they have a death warrant. The spirits are going after him. him hard now, but he can come back and like, he knows that churches have people inside of them

who are not playing for God's kingdom, like, he knows they're out there. And so, yeah, how does your dad now start getting into, you know, deliverance ministry? And how does that develop? Yeah, so like I shared that story about the student, that's where it started. And to your point, because he still felt, you know, the scars from the chains that had imprisoned him so deep and so hard, the glory of the cross became so palpable for him. And so again, his story just began to spread word of mouth, whether it's through my mom who would tell a story or someone who knew my friends who had wondered what's wrong with him

to find out what happened to him, they would tell stories. So I believe that God used that time of imprisonment to therefore, like you said, be used to free thousands of. of people. And so he never, he never went to anyone to say, hey, I think, I think you need help. Or, hey, I think you should look at this thing. They came to him. And like I said, growing up, it was literally three to five days a week where someone would knock on her front door or call our house and ask for, are you the guy who deals with demons? Now, some people were brought by friends of ours or more common than not. It was the someone.

who knew of someone who knew of someone who heard of him who would come to our house. And because exactly to your point, his heart was so thrilled to know the glory of Jesus that he didn't want to keep that from anyone. So my mom even said, and he admitted that, you know, there were many, many, many nights where we'd have to stand in line and wait for him because he was dealing with someone. And again, not everyone was an exorcism or a possession. There were a lot of exorcisms and a lot of possession, but he also said, started dealing with people that were just afflicted, marriages, people who were oppressed.

But then he also had really heavy cases of pastors and churches that wanted to leave, you know, the pulpit or who had actually gotten involved in the occult and were Satanist and pastors at the same time or occult members who wanted out but didn't know how to or kids of adult, of parents who were raised in the occult to be. what they call a breeder sometimes or to actually have to kill a sibling to gain more power. I mean, he dealt with some people in Hollywood. He dealt with pro athletes. And so the spectrum, you know, the spirits are agnostic to who and how they go after.

They just want to go after the soul. You know, from a best practice standpoint, right? So it sounds like a lot of these were referrals in one sense. But, I mean, just from a pastoral, whether it's healing ministry, deliverance, or just counseling, right? generally speaking, you would not have random people show up to your house. Like today's day and age, can you imagine being a pastor and having unsposed of the people? Like, it seems, I don't want to, I want to be disrespectful, but it seems really cavalier to like, despite the heart of like, I want to help everybody. Like Father Martin's talks about this. Like, he can't, you know, it'd be really dangerous to have people.

Because also the enemy will just probably show up. Like, there's people who could try and frame you. There's crack pots who could just show up. Also, then your kids are there. wife's there and they know where you live. So how did, you know, is this sort of a exception or were there safeguards in place? I mean, I think it was an exception because to your point, I mean, I would never do that. And we talk about it a lot. It was his, again, I don't want to minimize him or the efforts, but it was his naivete and deep desire to be obedient, what he thought obedient look like and that was to serve those who were hurting.

And I believe wholeheartedly to your point that he was therefore and we were therefore protected. But I will say, I will say that hence one of my reasons of keeping this from my kids and my family for so long is that there was a lot of stuff in our house that was allowed to be there because those exorcisms, when those spirits left, you know, they want a place to go. They have to inhabit something. have to be a part of something.

And there would be a lot of stuff happening in our houses from spirits walking up and down the hallways to voices and conversations in the kitchen, to the garage door opening and closing, to the microwave starting and stopping, to, you know, full-fledged, like spiritual assaults on the house, in the house. And not oddly enough, but now I understand, it would often happen when he was speaking at a church or in a Bible study sharing his story or someone was being freed at someone's house. Again, not every deliverance was out our house, but we just had a lot. Sometimes he'd go to homes and do it.

But they would therefore then come and try to attack me as a kid, make me afraid, freak me out, attack my mom. And so there was that, you know, back to the gateways and the doorways that we allow, both in a physical and the spiritual sense, you know, there was, you know, it was, I wouldn't do that now at all. I would never. It's also a different. I mean, again, I'm, yeah, I'm like one hand. It's like well into, I can also see a man who's just so excited to help people.

And we also live in a different day and age now, too, where you just have like, especially anyone involved in any sort of ministry, like we just have to have, because we just live in such a litigious society. And it just seems like a whole different, it almost seems like a different time period. But also, I mean, and again, obviously your dad means no ill intent on this, but I go, I, I, Are you, because on one hand, are you blessed in that from a young age, you had a correct view of the universe, which is that spirits are real, and you got to see the power of Christ up close. And so there's a weird part where you're like, in the same way, it's like growing up with guns. I joke that my friends who grew up in the deep south, you know, that I know I have some really good friends.

Like they grew up around guns and knives and like hunt and they're just not phased by it. They're like, you grew up in California where a Nerf gun is the only thing you're allowed to have. and you're like, whoa, it's the real gun. This is like scary. And you're like, right now, demons are real. Angels are real. And we cast them out. But on the other hand, I'm like, there's a part of me going, you know, young Rick is sitting on the floor.

And I mean, you share insane stories. And I go, that's traumatizing for a kid. So, like, how do you, you know, wrestle through that? Or was like, is this just like the family business? While I was in it, it's all that I knew. So it's all that I knew to be real. So it didn't, you know. it was crazy but looking back you know i yeah it was gnarly it was super heavy and hence my

protection of my family and to keep that you know and and even though i knew that i i was victorious through christ it's still scary i mean it's like the stuff that you see again you watched on the movies and you like leave scared holy cow that was incredible cg or man that special effects were crazy. But when you see it in your home, again, to your point, I saw the glory and wonder of Christ, but to see evil like that, yeah, it kind of screwed with my head a bit. And it didn't, that seemed, that was my reality, you know, living at fast forward in my adulthood in corporate life, it didn't make sense. You know, that world marrying to my job, it didn't, it wasn't a smooth transition because it was so gnarly and so heavy.

How did you choose to, we have a lot of parents who listen to this show and there's a balance of how much, you know, there's a point where every kid goes, hey, mom, dad, like, our monster's real and there's a time and a place and how do you explain that? So how did you choose to raise your children from a spiritual awareness standpoint of, yeah, was the angel demon talk brought in at an earlier age or did you wait to a certain point to say, hey, FYI, this is a reality. You need to be afraid, but you need to be aware of. I mean, faith was always the center of our home. Going to church, prayer, the cross, sent our kids to a Wana at Sunday school. You know, I volunteer at church, showed my wife.

You know, so the church was very real in their life. And I wanted them to understand and make a decision about faith on their own through us exposing them to the truth. But I didn't want to expose them to the level of, to your point, the stuff that I'd seen and known at that age. Because I know also that that, Satan will use that and start to mess with them just because we're humans. Yep. So, but there was a time when my oldest daughter was going away to college. And I, my dad came to visit and I said, he's in his 80s and he's got some health issues. And I saw him and I hadn't

seen him in a while. And he was, he was in a wheelchair and just feeble and weak. physically, but I knew that he was a warrior in spirit and a giant in spirit. And it hit me, like, I need my daughters to understand the heritage at which they come from, knowing the power and the victory of Jesus on the cross, that he forgives our sins, but he's also conquered this evil world. And I wanted her and therefore they were there, you know, my other kids to hear about that. And that's what, you know, sparked her and their curiosity. Not my youngest as much. I mean, she's 13.

She's just learning that stuff. But that's when I knew that I had to share this with them because it's important. It's important for Christians to know that we're in a battle all the time. And it's not just this wild Hollywood stuff in movies where, oh, that's a crazy horror flick. But they come and they make you angry because your parents said to do something. or they, you didn't like how this pastor talked and so now you're angry at church. I mean, all those things are aspects of spiritual warfare. And I wanted them to understand, obviously not all of it at once or all of it ever because

it's such a long journey, but they needed to understand that part of their faith is learning how to pray. And prayer is where you combat and do the war in Jesus' name over this invisible world. Absolutely. I don't want to give too much attention to this, but I just think it's important so people can, you know, it's always helpful when people say, hey, wow, this person has experienced similar stuff that we've had.

So maybe a bit of a lightning round here. But on our show, we've detailed that their demons can play tricks on people's eyes and make people seem to transform. You have an anecdote or two about people slithering as snakes. One incident where someone actually took on sort of a ape-like monkey behavior status, and you saw someone potentially like the Incredible Hulk. So you have seen firsthand some of these, whether they're physical or optical illusions, right? You've seen some of these firsthand. The spirits will defy the laws of nature, again, from what I've seen in my experience.

People grow, they expand, that one that you talked about. Again, he didn't turn green, his shirt didn't rip, but he grew and his shoulders broadened. And his shape physically took on some of the something other than what I walked in the room to see as a human originally. And it was it was absolutely demonic. And again, from my experience, 100% real manifestation of the cosmic world entering into the physical to address the war head on. It was a demon of weight protein, right? Or testosterone.

The demon, TRT, right? Yeah, TRT. Yeah. You also mentioned an anecdote about some, In our story about the Ouija board that wouldn't burn except for the words no. Did I read that you had an anecdote about something that refused to burn as well? Yeah, so that was my dad's guardian spirit, the blue lady. And that was one of the steps before he came back to Christ where he realized something was really bad.

And he knew he had to get rid of it. He didn't know how, but he knew, you know, growing up in the Baptist Church and his family was big, they would have missionaries from across seas over to the house lot. And they would tell these stories of encounters with, you know, spirits and demons and how they would attack the missionaries or the villagers. And so he had this recollection of that in his head and how often these missionaries would pray against the spirits in the name of Jesus. And when he started to realize something was horribly wrong with him and a lot of it

was tied to the painting, he knew he had to destroy it. And this is when, again, things started to quickly unravel for him in his satanic journey. But he took the painting and he had to destroy it and he threw it into our fireplace. And there were, he had two friends that was there with my mom and they threw it in the fireplace and it didn't burn. The painting wouldn't burn. And obviously that piqued everyone's interest and freaked everyone out. But then he started to remember those stories of the missionaries. And so there was a corner that wasn't, you know, in the fire that he was able to pull out.

And he just, on a whim, said, like, in the name of Jesus, I command you to burn. And then he started to, and this is where it gets weird. But again, that's what happens on your episode. Oh, this is where it gets weird, bro. Weird. And now this is, we have a painting of a blue, ethereal spirit who was commanding a former Christian into Satanism. I feel we crossed over into weird about 90 minutes ago. So he took the painting out and he knew he had the physical historic.

So we started to cut the painting. And at that time, he said he saw my mom's face start to materialize on the painting. And actual tears start to bubble up through the paint on the painting. And the painting started to cry. And that's when he cut it up and he threw it back in the fire and said, in Jesus name, I command you to burn. And it poof went on into. flame, obviously. But again, at that point, he still didn't know. He just knew what he was in

was crazy and somehow it had to end, but he had no idea. But yeah, it didn't burn and it did. Tell us about the monkey man. Just weird. I've heard of serpents. I've heard of wolves. This is the first primate manifestation. On record, huh? So, oddly enough, it was at church. I was at a young adults group, and at that age, you go to, quote, unquote, you know, learning more about the Lord, but you're also kind of hunting for a girl so you could ask out. And so it's a big crowd, young crowd. We were mingling afterwards. The pastor that was leading was, and it was a pretty big church. He was one of the pastors on staff, and one of the only pastors at the time who understood my dad's story and would talk and ask my dad for help with some of the lay people. None of the other

pastors would. So he was done preaching when I was back talking to my friends and trying to meet some girls. And he walked over. He said, hey, I need to talk to you. I said, okay, I could tell by his tone that it was probably pretty serious. And so he said, you know, I think I've got someone up front here that I, you know, I know I've worked with your dad a lot. I know you know about this stuff. But I think someone's up front that needs something that you and your dad do. I said, okay, so I walked up. And the guy was in his seat. He was super. tense, really fidgety, not nervous, but like something was about to blow, you could tell. And he didn't know what to do. And so I went up and his eyes were super tight that it just was,

it was tense. You could tell there was just something not right. So I sat down and started talking to him and he said, look, man, I don't know what's going on with me, but there's, there's something inside of me that I need to get out. I don't know what it is and I don't know what is happening, but I don't know what to do. And so then I knew, you know, we were in a room with hundreds of people. So I'm like, this is not the place for that because people will lose their mind. Something horrible will go wrong. So he was with, I think it was a, yeah, it was a girl that brought him.

So I asked the pastor if there's an empty room that we could go to. So I had had her bring a couple friends. And so there would be, again, to your point, a group there in prayer. I didn't know if they knew anything about this or not. but we went into an empty Sunday school room, and there are probably four to five of us, and then this guy. And again, I could just tell there was something about to blow, because also what's important, and your show talks about that, when someone wants to be free and they don't know how to be free or what they're exactly being freed from, the spears start to fight harder,

and they want to do things to keep their possession. So we brought them in the room. We sat in a circle. We held hands. They were, he was just, it was like a, boiling pot of water that was about just ready to blow his lid. No sooner had I said, Dear Lord, he burst up out of the circle, ripped his hands from ours, and started just to violently scream and yell cuss words and stop praying, stop talking, you blah, blah, blah, blah, blank. And so obviously it was a spirit. I told the group who started to panic. I said, just keep your eyes closed and pray, pray for protection for all of us. And so then I started to pray over the spirit in him.

It was one of violence and rage and hate and anger. And again, because the manifestation was so quick and so fast, kind of similar to the one at Oxford, because again, he wanted the freedom. He didn't know what it was, but he wanted to be free. She didn't know what it was, but she wanted to be freed. And he was just super aggressive. And, you know, in Sunday school rooms, sometimes the tables are a little lower. for the kids. So it's not like a big, big table, but they're a little lower. And this one was a kid's room. So they had a box of crayons and box of scissors in the corner of the room. And at one point,

during the exorcism, he jumped up on the table. And again, he was acting like and looking like a monkey from his face to how he hung his arms, to how he bounced around the room. It was like I was watching a National Geographic special. But it was a human, again, I say this just to, draw an image. It was a human monkey bouncing around the room filled with rage. And at one point, because I knew that it was such a violent spirit with such hate, I noticed the box of scissors at the end of the room. And I felt the spirits tell me, I'm going to tell him to jump up on that table, go to those scissors, and we're going to take you all out. So of course, makes me a little nervous, even though I know God is protecting me, still your flesh, like your hair rises on your

arm. Like, this is a possibility. And right as they had said that, he leapt up on the table and started to monkey his way over towards those box of scissors. And I, you know, rebuked it, and I rebuked him in the name of blood of Jesus Christ to protect us. And I kept going after the spirit. Long story short, at the end, actually is sort of a two part, but let me get to the end the one part. When we had exercised what we thought or what looked like most of the spirits, we sat back down, and you guys on your show, I think I've talked about this, you know, the hierarchy of the spiritual realm and how the controlling spirit will try to push out lesser spirits first so that it can maintain its presence. So we sat back down and I looked at him and I

knew a bunch of spirits had left because I saw them manifest. I saw them come out and leave, but there was still something in his eyes that was still there. And so we sat back down and as soon as I said, in the name of the blood of Jesus Christ, I rebuked that spirit to name itself. And he just leapt up out of the table again and we went through round two. But at the end, when finally his house was clean, everyone was exhausted. He was exhausted. It was several hours.

And he walked over to me and was in tears and hugged me and just and thanked me for what he just experience and the help that he got. And again, it's my favorite part because you literally see the freedom of the experience and they can touch and taste the glory of Christ through their physical freedom. But he told me, he said, I have to apologize. And I said, what for? He's like there was, there was a moment where I didn't want to, but I felt like I couldn't control my body. And my body jumped up on the table. And I was told to take those box of scissors and go and kill everyone in the room. He said, but I couldn't stop myself until finally I couldn't move anymore. He says, I'm sorry for that. I said, hey, don't apologize. It wasn't you, but, you know,

it confirms what I knew in the middle of it, what was what they were trying to do to riddle me in fear and be afraid and not trust in God, and then for that spirit to overtake and win. That was a crazy experience with a monkey. Wow. Well, it sounds like you had an experience not with spiritual, but with guerrilla warfare. I know. There's the dad jokes. It's got to get them in there. There's the dad jokes.

I know. Got to do it. Got to throw it in there. One thing I found really interesting, too, obviously we tried to strike an ecumenical tone on this show. But you have, in that same anecdote with that woman who was slithering around and their parents had consecrated her to Satan, you had, you mentioned that the demon was viscerally reacting to a ring with an insignia of the fish on there.

And I thought that was so interesting. because I think in the Protestant tradition, the physical, God using the physical sometimes tends to get overlooked. And you might say one tradition overemphasizes too much, but et cetera. But I have found the more I've dug into us, it's actually very interesting that these spirits do react to these physical objects, which I think is so, like now that I look back, it seems so obvious because we all acknowledge the reality of cursed objects

and cursed locations. Like, it makes sense that like this demon, you can tell us this story, was reacting to a simple ring you had that was a physical reminder of your... Yeah, I had never seen that before. And I was, again, to your point, as a Protestant, you kind of don't think about that stuff that often. But after that moment, I was a believer.

I was praying over her as the demon was manifesting on the floor, squirming. And a baby is always looking like a snake. And I had my hand again. I don't ever touch. I just held my hand above. And the spirit turned its. head and looked up at my ring and hissed and literally shouted, get that thing away from me. But, you know, obviously in my best venom voice that I could say, which I don't have, but it was a

venomous, hateful voice that was viscerably bothered by and disgusted by my ring. Like my ring was just, it was a silver ring. I'd gotten from a really good family friend with the fish all the way around it engraved, obviously the symbol of a believer. But it recognized that as the symbol of Christ. And it was physically distraught over it. It just stood up because I'd never seen that before because everyone, you know, that we had dealt with. It was always just prayer, not things.

But that was a unique moment for me that stuck out in my head. And as I listened to one of your episodes, I can't remember what it was, but it was about the cloak, I think. There was a cloak of a saint and the spirits, again, felt the burn, I think, of the cloth on the forehead. Oh, that was the piece of the bloodied alb of St. Thomas Petz that father happened and sent to as a fellow priest of his, a friend of his. And, yeah, I mean, because the demon does, obviously, when they endwell a human, they're sacrificing some of their spiritual reality to take on a physical form,

which makes sense that they would then be subject to these physical objects. But now it's very interesting, I mean, because we believe in cursed objects, and it's just interesting. And also, I think it's really important in this realm that there's general rules and maxims. know Christ is ultimately the person who sets people free. God's in charge of all of it. And yet, he's creative. There's just, it seems like no deliverance. They seem to take on patterns and we see similarities. But also each one's like really unique and really, and that's part of the fascination with it. I'm curious, in your experience, too, have the doorways that you

watched your dad, you know, do deliverance ministry on and to pray for these people. Would you say the distribution of the doorways was pretty similar to what Father has shared? as far as the heaviest ones were deliberate occult activity and then working your way down, unforgiveness, sexual sin, and I'm curious if you've had an experience with generational curses, Freemasonry, Santa Ria, anything like that. Yes, so, yes, all those things ring true in our experience. My dad has been exposed to and more. I wasn't with him on many of the heavy, heavy ones, you know, with the occult or be it, you know,

be it the masons or be it, I mean, there's all kinds of crazy. stuff, but the patterns, those doorways and patterns, they, you know, I mean, there's ones that like his doorway, when he asked Satan to come in, that's just a blatant, you know, form of perfect possession, I guess you could call it. But, you know, there's other doorways that are much slower and gradual that bring, like the Ouija board. I mean, that, in the 80s, that, that, and lies a feather stiff as a board, you know, Mary Mary on the mirror, all those things. My dad dealt with a lot of people who that was the initial experience that exposed them to the pathway that brought them to where they were when he finally met him.

It was those innocent, quote unquote, innocent experiences with the spirit world that would open the doorway that would give them the foot that would then allow them to, you know, to dwell in eventually over their life and be part of it. Those doorways are powerful and real and sometimes extremely obvious and sometimes not. I mean, there was a, I'll tell this part, and you can tell me if it's relevant. But because this story was well known where we were, where we lived at the time, there was a lot of activity in the fields around us, where the cops were starting to notice, you know, sacrificed cats or, you know, like a head of a goat and then a pentagram drawn in the field.

It became so, you know, disturbing. the detective that was assigned to kind of investigate that stuff knew of my dad and would elicit information from my dad about his experience in the satanic cult and he would get involved in helping him try to interpret or figure out what was going on and I feel that's when that stuff was like super off the radar fast forward to or today not just with your podcast but the stuff that I'm seeing now in award ceremonies, in concerts, in public forum, whatever, like, it's blatant. There doesn't seem to be a hidden veil on it.

It seems to be this massive doorway that the spirits are opening because people are starting to go, okay, wow, that's interesting. That's, you know, that's a cool, neat thing. But it's the stuff that I used to see that was really kind of off the books and kept in secret, I'm starting to see in volume and in mass in public, almost like a parade. Hence, back to the, I think they are becoming so brazen. People are becoming so open to it. And there's also hunger for spiritual that it's becoming front and center, which I have never seen before. In my experience, probably the last five years is when I've seen this start to hockey

stick up on a graph, if you could say. You know, something else I'm being curious about. You hear there's a lot of, you know, it seems like, particularly with the occults and particularly Satanism, there seems to be, you know, there's just cultural rebels, like sort of anarchists, right, who kind of use, they do any sort of a metaphor or an allegory for just resisting everything. And then there seems to be actual people who, like, come out of it. And there's also a lot of people who just seem to make stuff up and, like, you know, it's just who's going to corroborate. And it just, it's just all weird. But from your father's experience, it seems like his dallions with this occult stuff. was highly individualistic and not part of, because I know there are witch covens. We know there are orange goose, but it sounds like from what you've seen and learned, it's not, he wasn't part of any sort of broad hierarchical structure. It was more just an individual basis. And, you know, because we hear about when we talk about the breeders and some of the SRA, which, you know, I don't want to get too much into.

It's really dark. But it's like both those exist. But that was your father's experience, was more like individual. He didn't want to muddy the waters of his perception. pursuits like he saw happen in the church. So he didn't want to be a part of a group. He wanted to be an individual with the source. So his pursuit was very solo. And he kept to himself, except for, like I said, the trips where he'd go downtown to see things or meet people. But he kept it to himself, and his devotion was individualistic. Yeah. Do you think your father just had a unique charism that God

gifted? You know, we think about St. Catherine of Siena, who was said to just like blink at a Dementiac and her just like walk with God would just frighten the hell out of them. They'd flee at that moment. And I have yet to have that gift. But I'm curious. Yeah, same. Do you think it's obvious that your dad had a very special gift that God bestowed? Because again, it's just such a wild, I just, it's such a wild thing to think about doing

ministry on the living room floor. Sounds like the premise of an interesting sitcom, you know. Yeah, I think it was highly unique and I think it was very special. And I think, you know, there was a call on my day. dad for that. And like what you said, I've talked to, you know, some people like, oh, I want to, I want to do this thing. This is, you know, God has called me. And I always like, really, is that? I mean, are you sure? This is not something you walk into lightly or really walk into it all because it is, it's heavy and it's dark. And you are unless you understand it. But yeah, I mean, I look at my dad. Again, as a kid, I always thought,

you know, because he was a teacher, the students loved him. Everywhere in town that we went, people always call his name and I want to say hi and you know thank you you're the only teacher that cared for me you're the only one who listened to me so I always you know my dad was always my hero but then seeing him wrestle with angels and demons you know and not walk around and beat his chest and say look what I do made me even be you know in awe of him more because of that gift and of that call and of that anointing in my experience of what I what I believe, is on my dad. And that was a part of the reasons why I wrote the book, The Blue Lady,

is that I'd feel, you know, his story, you know, it's in part to honor him because he's done this sacrificially his entire life for no pay for, he didn't have, again, like a ministry where he, it was just a thing he did because he felt obedient to help other people. And he'd do it after hours at home or on the phone. So yeah, it's very special, not just because he's, my dad and I'm a son, although I highly respect him, but it's just to see what God has done, you know, in so many people's lives and to see their freedom when they have left our house.

Again, every time they come, you can see it in the eyes. And when they leave, you know, their eyes are free. I want to finish here as we talked a little bit about the, you know, it's funny. One thing I really appreciate is that the method of exorcism doesn't seem to, you know, the prayers are a little different. And obviously there's a big difference between now formal exorcism and deliverance ministry. But, you know, the premise seems the same across these different traditional bounds and especially with the Catholic Church. You start the premise that you shouldn't have demons. And if you do, they have permission to be there. We got to find out the permission. You mentioned in the book, too, that with your dad and you, that it seems very similar to Father Martin's approach,

too, that a lot of it is just praying and listening and asking God, what do you want to do here. Do you have any examples of any stories of specific insights the Holy Spirit gave you that led to helping set someone be free? Yeah, it's a great question. I'm glad you asked that because, and I share this in the book, nine out of ten people that my dad would deal with, he had never met before. Didn't know their story, didn't know of them.

I would say 9.9 of the people that he met out of 10, he didn't know. So it was, you know, you had to do the discovery process of, you know, what is it you want, why you're here? And it would often start with, he would say, how can you hear what he need? and they would say, I know there's something wrong with me. I think there's something in me.

I need help. But a voice told me not to come and see you. He said, well, how come you're here? He said, because another voice that was stronger than that voice said, go and see you. And so, you know, the session would start. A lot of questions asked, you know, what's your story? That's where, like, you discover the doorways or the events that opened up those things. But again, he didn't know these people.

And at some point, often, while someone was telling a story, he would get a word from the Holy Spirit to identify an event. And it was usually a pretty hairy event, something not anyone would tell. A molestation, a rape, something. And he would feel the Holy Spirit say, you need to speak this out loud to this person to really usher in the freedom. And again, there's the, if I say that, what if I'm wrong? What if it's not? What if it's, this could mess everything up. But God, again, he heard God say, trust me.

And I don't know of a time where he did that, that it was wrong. And when he would say that to a person, God said you were raped when you were 12 or whatever the story was. The person would, you know, fall out of their chair because they had never told anyone that. But at that moment, the revelation caused them to see that they were not dealing with my dad or with me, my dad. my dad, obviously the most, but with my dad, they were dealing with God because they were told something about themselves that no one knew or they kept a secret from everyone and my dad would never know that. So I would confirm to them that this had to happen and that God was involved and that God was in charge and it wasn't my dad, some, you know, weirdo guy who knew, you know,

everyone's past. Those moments then caused the freedom to accelerate because that's when the person knew, okay, this is real, this stuff that I'm feeling, that I don't know what it is. If it's real, if it's not, it's just crazy. This is real. Something is happening. And that would really, that's where the magic really started to happen because they recognize that, intellectually and spiritually. Yeah. Well, I can't wait for you to be a father-in-law and have to have explained to some of these kids your background, be like, hey, don't, man, I'm not scared of you. I've outside my living room. And, you know, I would say, like, so now that you've done deliverance, seems probably like, you know, the IRS, you know, the EPA, any of the, you know, any big

meeting or client, whatever, probably doesn't phase you. Is there a certain half, I'm half jesting here, but is there a certain sort of Jacobian limp that accompanies this where you kind of seen so much that you are a little divorced from this world in one sense where you kind of go, hey, I know the broader reality and works work, and it's awesome, but like it's family and following God and it's just a lot more spiritual than we all realize. Yes, I see the spirit world clear than I sometimes see this world. And so sometimes that does make things easy.

But on the same hand, it makes things way more complicated because you have to live and function within the restraints of the physical world. You know, I know that Satan can attack me or my family in a way that is lose your job, lose your house, lose your finances, have your daughter's heart get broken or something worse happen, you know, that's a small example. But I mean, there's, there's also a part in that sometimes feels like I've seen too much. And so it does cause that like, oh, you know, what could happen here? But again, it's, you know, it makes the wrestle more intense, but also it causes me to realize that even those things, although small, is spiritual warfare. And that's, you know,

we wrestle not against flesh and blood. So I have to be reminded all the time. time that that's a reality. But yeah, like on one hand, the other world makes much more sense to me than this does, especially corporate life. I mean, that's a crazy. That's a crazy zoo. Talk about nuts. You know corporate. It's ridiculous. All right, Rick, as we kind of land our spiritual plane here, I mean, we spend a lot of time talking about the other side. But also, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask, we love angels, big angel fans on this show, not the Anaheim Angels. I'm a Paul-Grey's fan myself. But I'm curious, you know, have such a crazy glimpse into the spiritual realm. We've talked a lot about the dark side.

Have you seen any Jedi's? Like, are any angels? Have we seen any of the good ones? Any experiences there? Yeah, the Luke Skywalker's of the world. Yeah. So what's funny is, to that point, I've seen a lot of demons. And so sometimes that's all you expect to see, but we were on a trip where my dad, he was speaking in Sweden to a group. Again, he was brought over to speak at a couple churches, story got out, that his story got out. And so he was asked to go to a bunch of places. One of them was this apartment building in Sweden where that a big room and a Bible study had gathered and they'd heard a story and said, would you come and speak? And so we were in this room being introduced and more and more people heard about it. So literally droves of people were starting to come into a

very small room. It got very tight and very cramped. And there was one individual that was there that I just sensed something wasn't right. He started to agitate my dad while he was speaking his story with questions and real like, I just knew that it was a spiritual attack. And so I started to pray. And then I felt the Holy Spirit say, go outside the door, close the door and pray for protection for the people in there so that my story can be heard and for your dad as he talks. So I went outside and I said right outside the door. And I remember this like I was just there.

And I started to pray and he said, I want you to turn. and look left. And I turned and looked left. And I saw this row of angels. It was perfect. It was almost mathematical. Same height, same look, but they were stoic, but just white. I could see the form. I could see them. Their swords are drawn up by, up by their breast on their shoulder. They were standing right, probably about eight feet tall each. And then he said, look right. And I looked right. And I saw the same row of angels down that side. Same look. And then he said, I want you to look. up. And this is, again, I wouldn't tell the story much in their place, but here. I looked up when I saw in the skies angels and demons in a war. And it reminded me of Daniel 10 when Daniel prayed,

and 21 days later, the angel came and talked to him and said that it was being held captive by the prince of the area. But I was so excited to see, again, it's always exciting to see someone freed and a demon ripped from someone's soul. But to see angels alive and standing guard where sometimes we don't think they're there, but to see them in silence in a row protecting that building and then my dad and then looking up and seeing them actually in war, it was just amazing because again, it reminded me literally as I saw it that God fights for our souls. It fights for the hearts of mankind. And he has warriors assigned to that for. our protection, but there is a war going on literally all around us all the time. And prayer,

when you pray, stirs that up and causes that to be real. And so seeing those angels was a blessing for me because I was, again, I'd seen so many spirits through people. I'd never seen an angel in spirit. It was amazing. A lot of people found the Lord that day. Amen. Amen. Well, parting is So sweet sorrow, we have got to go. Thank you so much, Rick, for sharing and trusting us with your story. We will link to the book for those that want to go check out The Blue Lady. And yeah, and the next time you hear a voice that tells you to paint something, stop, pray, and ask yourself, which voice is this? And so we just really appreciate you telling your story. God bless you. Thanks for being a fan of The Exorcist Files.

Well, thanks for having me on. This is amazing. Appreciate it. Thank you very much. All right, folks, you know the drill. Stay demon free, y'all.