The Exorcist Files - The Case Behind The Case: No Life Without Death

Episode Date: September 9, 2025

While the team enjoys some much needed late summer break, Father Martins and co open the vault to let listeners hear one of the exclusive cases where Father goes back and shares what we didn't have time to dig into in the originals. Vault members have had access to this for a year. SponsorsFast Growing Trees- Get FIFTEEN PERCENT OFF at using the code EXFILES at checkoutTake the online quiz and introduce Ollie to your pet. Visit https://www.ollie.com/exfiles today for 60% off your first box of meals! #ToKnowThemIsToLoveThemTake your food to the next level with Graza Olive Oil. Visit https://graza.co/EXFILES and use promo code EXFILES today for 10% off your first order! Want more case behind the case? Check out exorcistfiles.supercast.com and sign up for the VaultSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello, Exorcist Files, listeners. Been a little quiet, right? Some of you might even appreciate that. I know it's been weeks without dad jokes, but our team has been enjoying a much-needed little late-summer holiday and are busy working on finalizing some dramatic case files. Celebrate good times, right? For our new listeners, we work on the dramatic cases in batches,

and we will have some for you very soon. In the meantime, we have some incredible content coming up, including an interview next week with my dear friend, Father Gregory Pine, and some exorcist colleagues who will be joining us as well to share their own stories. So stay tuned for all that. But while we're on this little break, we didn't want to leave you hanging. So we decided to open up the vault to share our first special case behind the case episodes. Now this came out about a year ago and is normally exclusive to the

vault. These are special episodes where we go back and have father share additional commentary that he didn't have time to include in the original episode. This one covers the first case, No Life Without Death about Mark and Cheryl, and her passion for taxonomy gone very, very awry. Now, if you're new to the show and have not heard this case file, go search No Life Without Death Parts 1 and 2. It's the very first episode we released several years ago, and listen so it doesn't spoil anything.

Lastly, we want to give a very special shout out, and thank you to our Vault members. You make this show possible. Your support ensures that we can keep cranking out content, both dramatic and interview. And with that, we hope you enjoy this case behind the case episode. Hello, Exorcist Files subscribers. Welcome to our first case behind the case.

Have some patience with us as you, of course, have we made you practice for long enough. But we hope you're enjoying season two. And we appreciate you supporting us. And so part of that is we have long wanted to do a little relisten party. We get questions all the time asking for a little more flavor and background. And honestly, what father's reaction was is he sees some of these stories come to life. So we're going to start with Mark and Cheryl in the case, basically, which was episodes one and two from season one, which is no life without death, which for our regular listeners

will remember, details a woman's descent into what we can only assume is madness at first, as she is driven insane and seeking out inappropriate, we'll say, spiritual assistance in her efforts to conceive a child. And as our listeners know, it goes wildly off the rails. And she finds herself collecting dead animals and bringing them home and putting them in a would-be nursery for a future kid, much to the chagrin of her husband. So this is the story of Mark and Cheryl. And so we have father here who's going to help, but we're just going to listen to some of the scenes again and get his reaction to some of this. So right off the bat, father, why did you want to include a case like this, which actually did not feature any actual exorcism in it?

It was more just the story and buildup. What are, why did you want to kind of lead with this one? There were a number of different elements that I thought were important in this case. One of them was an exhibition of preternatural knowledge whereby the demon, who was inhabiting Cheryl knew that I was a priest, although Cheryl had never met me and presumably the demon and myself had never met, or at least not formally. but there was a knowledge there of who I am and what I am. And that case also, I wanted to include it because the way by which Cheryl was ensnared,

it started with her desire for a baby, which there's nothing wrong for that desire. And the more she desired it, the more that desire was unfulfilled because she was unable to get pregnant. And even though she and her husband had all kinds of medical testing and treatments and so forth, a baby was just not forthcoming. For her, she had staked all of her happiness in being a mom and could not imagine life apart from being a mom. And so what started with an honest to goodness desire, in other words, there was nothing, you know, she didn't practice anything, and she had no cultism in her past or anything like that. She had no, she was a person living a good life. But her story, her case illustrates how one can desire a good thing, a legitimate thing, to an excess such that

that it becomes a wound. And demons live in wounds. Wounds are the thing that they are attracted to. They are both their food source and their habitat. So Cheryl made her self vulnerable, the more obsessive that she got with her desire to be a mom. Now, I want to play a clip here right now, and so we're going to roll a clip from episode one. Here is a scene where Cheryl is in, actually in the opening, she's on all fours, collecting bugs and putting them in a jar, almost talking like Smeagle from Lord of the Rings. And so we're going to play that. The world of evil is very much the mafia world.

You don't just interact with the mafia and then get out whenever you want. You form a relationship with the mafia. Now you're in. And the spiritual realm, you form a relationship with the devil. Then the devil forms a relationship with you. And you don't get out simply because you want to get out. It just doesn't work like that. So it shall be. Your energy is needed. Sacred life force. Fill me in... So small. Give me your life.

And who are you, sweetie? My name's Tina. How old are you, Tina? Seven years old. Wow. You're a big kid. Nice to meet you, Tina. Are you collecting grasshoppers? You are an astute observer, Tina. I'm collecting grasshoppers and crickets, butterflies, beetles, all types. And I'm putting them all in here. You see? I need them for something very, very, very

special. That's a lot of bugs. Yes, it is, but I need more. Lots more. Say, would you like to help me? Yes. Well, come on then. You have to be very slow and patient. Just watch. Eventually, you'll see one. It's one. What's that one? Ooh, that's a stink bug. Careful with those. They're very stinky. Oh, you got it? Quickly now. Did you get it? Got it. Eel. It's gross. Great job. Now drop it in the jar, just like that. Excellent work, Tina. So what's going to happen to the bugs? They are now in service of a greater good, Tina. All of them will eventually die in this jar.

You want them to die? No, of course not, but they are dying for us, Tina. It's their destiny. But why do you let them die? They're giving me their life so I can create a new one. You're making new bugs? No, I'm making a new life. Life like you and me, Tina.

That's funny. Tina? Yes, to some it is. Tina. Hey, Mom. What did I say about running off like that? You need to see where I can see you. Remember, I told you not to leave the playground area without asking me.

But I saw this lady crawling on the ground, and I asked her what was she doing? I'm so sorry. Is my daughter bothering you? No, not at all. She's quite the little helper. Great, great energy. We're collecting bugs so they can help her make new people. She's making a person out of the bugs.

Tina, please come here. Time to go. Oh, Mom. Right now. That's really not necessary. Your daughter's helping me with something very, very special. All right, let's go. Children are such a blessing, aren't they?

Have a nice day, ma'am. Lurking coward. Big your pardon? You're not worthy to have a child. What the hell is wrong with you? Rotten excuse of a mother. How dare you talk to me like that? The blessing of life is squandered on such a feeble mind.

You're demented lady. Wretched energy parasite. Guard that one closely while you still can. For your time, will come. You stay the hell away from my daughter. All your times will come. It's okay. The magnify.

That woman is just... The woman is just... She's in you. She's sick. You fail your daughter as Kane's faith. Death comes for you. Fowl creature, I will absorb your death. Okay, so father, I'm curious.

Obviously, we dramatize a lot of things, and you're obviously not there for every waking second of her life. But that behavior, was that something that we dramatized and it was sort of a different representation of what was going on? Or had you in your time knowing her, had she actually got into a place where she was exhibiting that level of strange behavior where it would almost come over her as she was collecting these insects and bugs and ultimately the dead squirrel, which was the real kicker. Sure.

Yeah. So I have to rely on the testimony of her husband and Cheryl's own testimony when she would go on these forays where she would collect these dead insects, dead animals. You know, for the podcast, we made it much more verbal. than I think it occurred in life. We've got to portray a scene audibly that is largely only visual. Absolutely.

It was a visual thing, and we've got to find a way to engage a listener. And so what we did, we added more dialogue, much more dialogue than what occurred in her case. But the obsession is there, that 100% focus on getting these dead insects. In other words, there was an absolute committal to the belief that the souls, quote unquote, of these dead insects were hovering around the bodies. Those souls could be directed to help manufacture a new life, to help with the bringing about of a human baby.

So right away, what we can identify is within Cheryl herself, she had a nominally Christian background. even if she wasn't a very committed Christian, she had a general Christian worldview simply because of the culture in which she grew up, right? Simply because of the family that she had, the town she lived in, within the state that she resided and so forth within the nation of the United States. And so, you know, Cheryl, her obsession led her to go and consult this soothsayer, this whatever you want. want to term that person, a healer, a fortune teller, a souser, whatever, the advice or the counsel that she got from this individual already changed her worldview. She was so hopeless and destitute that rather than turning to God, when this scoundrel offered her a worldview of, you know, life all comes from one source. And so when life is lost, it's not lost, it's just changed. So if you

want a baby, all you've got to do is gather these dead insects together and once you reach a critical amount, you're going to see, you're going to get pregnant. What rational person would ever believe this? This is stupidity, pure and simple. This is pantheism and nobody subscribes to pantheism anymore. I mean, nobody of any intellectual soundness, any intellectual capability. But that had already penetrated her. So we can see now the extent of the wounding. So this obsession of hers has caused her to compromise her worldview, her fundamental beliefs, and whether that came from something that she read or whether it came from this fortune-telling person, she's changed. And so she's ready to try anything, even something that is absurd and stupid.

And for her, it's worth it. And she was really committed to the belief. So at what point then does the demon enter in, right? That in her case remains a mystery. I can't tell you the moment. She herself didn't even know the moment. I doesn't know it today. She can recall times where she remembers being normal, but when she was possessed,

many of those, the vast majority of those memories are not available to her. So she couldn't tell you when. Do you think it's because one, we noticed one, and I'm curious if this was, you know, part of the,

because obviously, as we remind listeners frequently that, you know, this is a very sensitive subject and we do, you know, we're not just changing details for your entertainment. We are changing details so that victims don't have to potentially relive this. And for our listeners, imagine to if the word got out and people could identify and you didn't want that kind of attention, I often remind people about there was a house used in The Conjuring and it got out, I believe, that that was like a public location and people just started going to it all the time. I think the same thing happened with the Amityville House as well. And so you have to remember that there's all sorts of attention that would be

and for something that you may not ever want to actually have any recollection of. But one thing I noticed is that she went from collecting dead animals or dead insects. And then obviously we see a progression to her ultimately in the scene we just listened to. She's actually getting live bugs at this point. And then, of course, the perhaps scariest scene in this entire two-episode story is when she's chopping live rats. So is it, I mean, this is conjecture, but do you think at some point the demon moved her from saying, okay, now it's just, you're just taking some as already dead to now you actually, I'm going to, you're so warped in these phases that you can actually take life now in justification of creating a new one. Yeah. Well, you know,

I don't think they even, it's possible that they did, but I don't think they even need to because it becomes a natural progression. Well, if it works when you collect a dead animal, well, why not get a live one and then you can kill them in the comfort of your own home? So when she malleted these rats in the kitchen, you know, what she was doing was, well, she just thought, gosh, this is a good way for me to have a controlled presence of their souls in my home. So she found it was way less work to go to the pet shop and just buy a bag of rats and then

do them in the kitchen. with the meat tenderizer and, you know, on top of the cutting board. And, you know, she can still have dinner too, right? At that point? Still have dinner ready at the same time. That's right. So, and again, it just shows the perversion gets worse. The warping over time becomes more warped.

And things are more off-centered, more off-kiltered. Amen. Father Martin's here. I want to do a quick plug for one of the most powerful tools I've seen. for breaking free and growing closer to Christ. Exodus 90. The Exodus 90 challenge begins this year on January 20th, but this isn't just a 90-day program.

Exodus 90 is a spirituality for modern men that is built on three ancient pillars, prayer, self-sacrifice, and fraternity. We all long for something more. We long to be the men God created us to be. sons of a loving father. It's time to turn away from our idols. It's time to break free from the pharaohs that hold us in bondage. If you're ready to make a fresh start and embark on a journey to uncommon freedom in Jesus Christ, then download the Exodus 90 app today. This is your chance to break free,

refocus, and rediscover who God is calling you to be in the new year. It starts January 20th. So go to Exodus 90.com slash X-Files to learn more about Exodus 90. That's Exodus 90.com slash X-Files to join tens of thousands of men from all over the world for Exodus 90. Again, it begins Monday, January 20th. God bless you. I want to ask you, Father, too, and obviously having you know both of them, One thing I found, and obviously we cast the immensely talented Mark Reinega, who's a dear friend of mine. Actually, both Mark, it was really fun.

I got to work with for our listeners. Both of the stars of this episode were our very close friends of mine. It was very fun. Also, I've shared this story a little bit, but Father, I don't know if you remember that when we recorded this episode, it was done in a house in Burbank at 10 p.m. at night to reenact some of these scenes because that's when they were available. So a quiet residential neighborhood was suddenly the peace interrupted with a frenetic screaming of there is no life without death of a woman running outside the door and chasing Mark out the house from the famous scene. So sorry once again to the residents of Burbank. A lot of lights came on down the street.

That was the most scared I've ever been producing this. But one thing I noticed, and I'm curious, is Mark seemed to put up with a lot. I was thinking that if you saw your wife take a dead squirrel, like the roadkill scene was kind of when I'm like, all right, the bugs. At that point, I'm still thinking, this is weird. But did you find Mark to be exceptionally patient? Because my money, when you bring roadkill in the house, at that point, it's time to see a professional.

Were you ever shocked at Mark's patience? Or is that just the, hey, when you love someone for better for worse, and worse includes bringing roadkill in the house? Mark was extraordinarily patient. He really, really loved his wife. And this is something I have to say, I do see a lot, but I'm astounded every time I do. The fact that there's a partner here, so whoever the victim is, whether the victim is a husband or is the wife, more often than not, the partner is 1,000 percent devoted. And it's a marvel because I look at it and I think, gosh, you know, those marriages had to be strong marriages because if they weren't strong, you would just jump ship.

You would just think this is just not worth it to me. And, you know, to have a partner that is possessed and that possession manifests itself in the house. And it's going to manifest itself in a way that's utterly creepy. And you're sleeping right next to your partner who has at least one other spirit inside him or her. That's a very unpleasant thought. But Mark was consummately patient, really devoted to his wife, was willing to put up with a whole lot in order to help her. And if it weren't for that, it would have been tragically much more difficult. But Cheryl, bottom line, felt loved by her husband and felt secure in their relationship. So that sense of safety that she obtained from that stable relationship was exactly what she needed to ground her

in order to be able to break free of the demon. That's beautiful. Well, let's roll a scene here, and you can see some of Mark's patience here. So this is a scene where I believe they're having dinner. Here's a scene, I think, that shows a nice dynamic of their marriage. How's your day? Good. Productive, actually.

How was yours? It's good. It's good. Can you pass a salt? Okay, look, I can't keep dancing around this, babe. Why do we have jars of dead insects in our house? They will help me get pregnant. You lost me.

Well, when living creatures die, their energy, you know, their life force, if you will, it hangs around their bodies looking for a place to form new life. Death releases life energy. I'm harnessing that energy to increase my fertility. It's actually pretty simple. Okay. Cheryl? Just got to ask, do you actually believe that? You know, I'm not 100% sold. It sounds bizarre, I know, but we know energy is neither created nor destroyed. So is it completely implausible? I don't think so. So I'm fine giving it a try. The jars are sealed tight, babe. What did you hear about this?

A friend. A friend? Which friend? You haven't met her. Okay. Look, I know my opinion probably matters less here, babe, but for me, no matter how virtuous our goals are, keeping jars of dead bugs around the crib seems really bizarre and far-fetched. Mark, all this energy that you're wasting worrying about these bugs, you could be applying it to the belief that our child will arrive very soon. Cheryl, how am I supposed to explain this to anyone who unfortunately tries to visit us right now? I will not waste my device. divine energy being ashamed of what you or anyone else thinks about this. Period.

It's a bad look, babe. I'm not hurting anyone. Who cares? I want to have a baby. I'll try anything. At least I'm trying something. Why are you trying to terminate this process? I'm not trying to.

This is unacceptable. I'm struggling here, Mark, and I'm doing everything in my power to bring a life into this world. So can you please do that? Can you please be my husband? My ally? Who are you supposed to be right now? Okay, okay, okay, fine. I get it. We'll keep them.

It's just, look, it's just weird to me. I just needed to say that, okay? Just, just, can you do me a favor? Can you just put them somewhere hidden when we have guests over, please? Of course. That's a perfectly reasonable request. Okay, then. This asperius is so tasty.

Totally worth the smell. Don't be gross. Hey. Shut up. More wine? Oh, please. Always a to. Yeah, so just, I mean, incredibly patient.

I mean, I want to think of myself as a better man, but I mean, as a priest, if someone said, hey, father, my wife is bringing roadkill in the house, you would say, great, well, you're a covenantal marriage. So you're going to pray for her and, you know, that's adultery is one way to potentially have, get out of a marriage, but possession and bringing in dead animals into the house is not, right? Right. Absolutely. And, you know, Mark was just a hero.

in terms of his patience. He refused to not love his wife. And whatever it took, he was ready to be there for it. So, you know, here's to all the faithful spouses out there that are ready to help and do whatever it takes to get the job done. It needs their help. We have to have those partners be ready to roll up their sleeves and get involved in the foray in order to save the victim from the clutches of evil. You know, one thing I also found so insidious about this case is that like many lies of the enemy, she was engaging in, you know, one, you mentioned she wanted something good. Like, that is a beautiful desire to have a kid. And it's also deeply understandable when all your friends have had kids and you're left out and it can feel like you're kind of, you know, left behind in one sense. And then the other side is, I remember early in the episode, she starts building a nursery and buying all this baby clothes for their baby of

doesn't exist yet. And Mark at this point is saying, you know, well, maybe this is positive thinking. And that's a little weird, but also that is a good thing, right? There are cases, and I would not argue this is what's happening here, because clearly this wasn't a in faith to the Lord. I feel called to do this. But, right, Father, there are cases sometimes where the Lord might lead one person to say, hey, I'm going to ask you to spend a little money that you may not have because I'm calling you to do something you're going to trust that I'm going to provide for it. So there was kind of a, a touching on a potentially good and true thing there, right? Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. You know, Mark wanted to support his wife. Mark was the breadwinner and really the sole breadwinner, but he was ready to go without in order to accommodate his wife on so many things. And again, just I don't know where she would be if she had been with a different partner, somebody who would have been, would not have been as understanding or gentle with Absolutely. Now let's go to this is one of the wildest parts in this story. And it's funny, this is probably the tamest story we profiled in season one. But I know one of the complaints we got. And we didn't get many. But besides, hey, there's a lot of ads in the show. The number one complaint was, yo, where's the exorcism at? Right. You guys call it the exorc files. In your first case, you don't even have a deliverance yet. And we're like, hey, we're just, we're setting the table for you. But I thought one of the wildest parts of this is that Mark flees the house. and literally runs to a local church and then encounters this pastor who then refers him to a church,

which refers him to you. So one, was that an obfuscation? Is that exactly how it happened? Or was that some details to kind of protect identity? Did Mark just get the luckiest day of his life? That's exactly what happened. They went to a Protestant church because that when they did attend, which was rare, but when they did attend, they would attend that church for church on Sunday and Christmas, Easter, and stuff.

So when he approached that pastor, that pastor was just forthright and said, hey, look, I don't do devil stuff. You need to go to the Catholics for that. If memory serves me correctly, so then he called this Catholic church and you happened to be, it was this the church that you lived nearby at the time? Or was it, were you visiting? I forgot in the exact story, but I remember somehow you were able to actually meet with him very quickly. Yeah. So the call went to the diocese. And the diocese then, so some, and I forgot who, some Catholic parish was called by Mark or, and I forget now, whether it was Mark directly or this Protestant minister.

And so all calls of that nature were kicked up to the diocesan level. So there was a protocol whereby somebody would then take the details of the case, the relevant details, and that person would make a call to those of us who were deputed to conduct the exorcism ministry. So it came to me, somebody called me, and I said, you know, gosh, I'm very close to where they live right now. And I was all done helping my friend move in and so forth. And I was, you know, I'd been working all day long. so I was sweaty and dirty from moving, but regardless, I just thought, you know, this will save time for them and it'll save time for me because we're already here. In other words, we can conduct a very quick interview so that I can at least get some basic details because I didn't know anything about these people.

Of course, all I'm told is what I'm told. And somebody can be absolutely convinced that he or she has a demon or that there's some issue. but that's not necessarily the case. And I've seen it many times it's not, either because of mental illness or just an error in judgment or what have you. It's not demons in your walls.

You have a nest of squirrels in there. So you need an exterminator. You need pest control, not me. So regardless, Cheryl and Mark were together in their home, but Mark brought me. And as soon as I walked through the door, there was this agitation whereby Cheryl, who's now manifesting, was now inhabited by a demon,

the demon recoils and goes sitting up on the couch protesting to Mark, why did you bring this bastard priest here? And at that point, I greeted Cheryl, said, hello Cheryl. Or maybe I said, maybe I began with that, but then I asked, who are you? And of course, the demon knew that I knew who he was and said so in a derogatory way. And so I had never met Cheryl. Cheryl had never met me. I had no public profile in those days. But yet the demon inside her knew that I was an exorcist and reacted immediately against it.

So right there, I have reasonable grounds to conclude that, oh, occult knowledge, hidden knowledge was had by the demon. This is a sign that there's possession here. Well, let's relive it. Let's roll that clip of father entering and his first meeting with Cheryl. Cheryl? Cheryl, honey? I'll have someone here I want to introduce you to. Hello, Sharon. Why did you bring that bastard priest in here? Yeah, just chilling. I mean, it's, were you scared? Were you scared at all father when you, or is this sort of like, you know, because actually two parts, were you scared.

And secondly, like, you also were, this is not characteristic for you to necessarily quickly. You've often talked to defending your schedule and how this must have been just a matter of convenience due to the circumstances, right? Yeah, it was totally a matter of convenience because it would be less work for me. It would be easier for me to just conduct an initial interview rather than drag everybody over to my office. And then I could give that time, that slot. time to someone else, let's just get the job done. And at least, I just want to meet the relevant

people here. I just want to meet Cheryl and just get a flavor for what is happening. So I didn't need to be as protective of my schedule. Or another way to look at it, I was being very protective of my schedule. I thought, this is easy to do now. So let's do it now. And this will help my scheduling. Was I scared? No. You know, I think what the Lord has given me, the gift of faith to such an extent that I don't recall ever being afraid of the devil. So, Father, would you say in this order, what is scarier? Iceberg lettuce, bad grammar, or demons? Oh, they're all horrible.

Every last one of them. Iceberg lettuce, just so people understand, I had COVID twice. I had COVID in December of 21 and then in December of 22. And at the second time, that COVID left some permanent damage in me. In the sense of my sense of taste, I used to love iceberg lettuce. I mean, I loved all lettuce equally. But iceberg lettuce has since become just absolutely disgusting. There's a horrific taste that it has.

And so I would do anything to avoid it. And even if it's, say, on a sandwich and for me to remove it, the taste is, permeated throughout the whole sandwich. And what it tastes to me like is like foul rotting garbage that is sitting in a garbage can in the sun. I have no idea why. Some people's tastes have been altered. I don't know why mine was altered in this way. I've never heard of anyone having the same effect with lettuce. I have with other foods, but iceberg lettuce easily has to be the worst. Some other green vegetables have been affected as well to, but not to the level of that iceberg lettuces. The other effect is sleep. My sleep is now shortened and I can't sleep as deeply as I did

before. So that's the fallout from that that second COVID. But iceberg lettuce, demons, and what was the third one you said? Oh, bag of grammar. Ending on a preposition. Oh, gosh. Those who end a sentence with a preposition almost, gosh, if you get demons from that, I mean, it's hard to say you don't deserve it. It's not a mortal sin, but you, you're arguing, it's certainly a gray area, right? Right? Demons live in wounds and their habitat and their food source and bad grammar qualifies for all of that. So is your admonition to the people then to Romaine, calm? And if you hear the phrase, iceberg ahead, pay close attention for you, right? Gosh, that was awful. All right, let's get to a better note here. So obviously, this story,

we don't end with a formal exorcism. We save that for the following, so we'll hope you'll join us for the next case behind the case. But all's well that ends well. Cheryl is delivered, ultimately, and we report does have a baby. Could you walk us through a little bit? Did you ultimately perform an exorcism? I think we said in the episode you did, but ultimately, what are you able to divulge about as far as after that initial introduction where she was not so polite to you? What transpired after that? Yeah. So there was. There was an exorcism. But an number of things have to be put in place for an exorcism to be effective. So we first of all had to discover the extent of her wounding. And so that involved the help of counseling. It involved the help of a really good psychologist, then who was able to communicate back to Cheryl in a masterful way, you know, where she had taken these obvious missteps. So she started her life with a bunch of goals and all of a sudden being happy, of course, is the ultimate goal. But having a baby was the only path that she thought by which she would be happy. And that's just an unhealthy viewpoint because what if that is not God's plan for you? And your answer can be, well, but I wanted to be his plan. That's

irrelevant. What you're saying, if you're unwilling to be happy or if you refuse to believe that he can bring you to happiness without this very path that you think you have to take. What you're saying is you are God and he must comply with what you want. And so there you go. You are usurping God's sovereignty. And, pardon the expression, there is hell to pay for that. Because that is a refusal to give due rights to God and his sovereignty. you are encroaching on that.

That is a radical injustice. That's the kind of stuff that demons love. What you're doing in committing that action is you're opening your door wide and say, hey, anybody out there, any demons, you're welcome to come into my place. Just come in through the door here. I'll leave it open for you. That's the implication. Now, you did a formal exorcism on her. So you ended up getting permission from a bishop and doing the whole process, which we know is a serious investigation, etc.

Well, the investigation was largely, I mean, that part was very quick because, you know, there was this preternatural knowledge. So there was a sign of the supernatural being there, that there was this knowledge about me that she couldn't possibly have had. And then I'm also curious, too, when someone is, so you're able to fast track this one, I imagine, be like, you know, there's not a lot of ambiguity here. In the meantime, while someone is awaiting a formal exorcism, do you engage in deluxe? deliverance prayers in the meantime as sort of a triage, or do you wait until a decision is made to conduct a formal exorcism? Well, in those dioceses where I didn't have standing permission, I would wait, because any kind of praying I'm going to do is just going to escalate it. So when that escalation occurs, you need the authority from the bishop available to you,

or things are just going to get worse, right? You don't have jurisdiction then. You don't have authority. Got it. And it does end well. So she ends up having a child. And what was that like? Was that just a really sweet, you know, bringing it full circle? Is that just a really cool, redemptive end to this story that could have gone a bunch of different ways? It was. And it was very ironic because, you know, she had eventually resolved that she was going to be childless. And it was a great painful thing for her. But what made it palatable was that she had come to believe, okay, it is not God's will that I have a child. I need to accept that because in his will is my peace. So she had come to that point and, you know, the irony is after they stopped trying

to have a baby, poof, when they weren't trying, a baby comes along. So was it a grace from the Lord to them like a sovereign act of God's will whereby he decides, you know, I'm going to heal her? I'm going to bring a baby into a situation where it's just not possible for a baby to come in. Or was she relaxed enough at this point to just that her body was able to function in a normal way and then here comes a baby. I don't have an answer for that. But heavens, her life became dramatically changed after that, like for the better. She got what she received. She got what she desired to receive.

And she was a happy mom. She came and she did show me the child. beautiful baby. I haven't kept touch with them, at least not in a regular way. They're no longer even live in the state where I ministered to them. And it's fine. And you can't keep in touch with everyone. So my job was done. It was over. I wish them all the best. And I'm sure wherever they are, they are happy today. And the good news is, is that the silver linings of this case is the neighbors got to give up their pest control, right? Because Cheryl had kind of taken care of any local infestation problems, right?

Yeah. That's why we do it, folks. It's father's inability to recognize my amazing jokes in the moment. So we just got to bask in that, etc. I am curious, before we let you go on this one, Father, was the demonic permission in this one, was it the moment she sought out the psychic, or was there an entry point? Was there an idolatry?

Because I could see two potential avenues here at least. Like, the more obvious one being when you sink out a psychic, But the first one being, can we have obsessions with wanting something to a point where it does become idolatrous and that can open up doors? Yeah. And I guess the short answer to that is I don't know. I think it was the moment that she went to the sorcerer, to the fortune teller, healer, you know, whatever you want to call that person.

The demon was absolutely present after that. Was he already present at some level prior to that? well, possibly. It became evident for sure afterwards. Was it there before? Possibly. There's just no way for me to parse that. But certainly it wouldn't surprise me if he was because whenever he gets a foot in the door, he's going to keep working that, working that. Why didn't it get more of his body in the door, get more rights and to have more unfettered access to the person? Well, and Father, did you catch the Easter egg of what we put in with the new season opener? The opening scene with the witch doctor makes a pact with William and says there's no life without death all life has a cost and so we

tied it back to episode one when that was the line that Cheryl was screaming yeah so little little easter egg for our listeners out there yeah i definitely caught it and uh that was that was well done it was clever oh good well folks thank you for listening to our first case behind the case and we do want to make abundantly clear, as we always do, that Father is in no way suggesting that bad grammar is opening you up to demons. It's just opening you up to criticism. Yes, it does. Just bad perception. So, well, that's, and so anyways, that was the end of Father's ordination when he was kicked out for Grammar Gate. But folks, thanks so much for listening. And we so appreciate you supporting us in this ministry. And yeah, so just thank you so much. And we will be back next time as we dig into

Jeremy's case and go the case, behind the case. So long, folks.