The Exorcist Files - The Exorcist Roundtable

Episode Date: October 9, 2024

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Now, today, we bring you one of my favorite discussions we've ever had. what happens when you put the Exorcist for Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Father John Zeta, and the Exorcist for Nashville, Tennessee, Father Dan Rehill, together with Father Martins, the podfather himself? Well, you get an amazing episode where you get to hear Exorcists talk shop. Have you ever wondered what it would be like to share a margarita with these guys after one of their sessions? Well, hopefully this is the closest you ever get to it. Truly, it was amazing to be a fly on the wall for this discussion, and we really hope you enjoy it. Don't worry. We have more dramatic recreations coming your way. The next case file is in production.

So in the meantime, we're bringing you some of the promised bonus episodes from our Kickstarter campaign. The next dramatic case file will drop in a couple weeks. Also, we want to let you know that Father Martin's book comes out in late November. So if you want to pre-order, you can head on over to father Carlos Martens.com. The book features a deeper dive into the existing case files and some whole new ones. So head on over to Father Carlos Martins.com, and you can pre-order it. In fact, I'm told if we pre-sell enough copies, we might just make Father Martins a New York Times bestselling author. Is the world ready for that? I think so. Lastly, we want to give a special thank you to our partner, Fount of Grace, who makes incredible handmade Catholic jewelry. We're really picky with who we work

with in Season 2, and we love the team at Fount of Grace. So it's getting near that time of year, when you should probably start thinking about giving gifts, and let me tell you, just as a little side bonus, all their gifts come in this really nice, elegant packaging, which if you're like me, I struggle deeply with gift wrapping. This is just really nice to have. But seriously, if there's a loved one in your family or a friend and you want to find a really nice gift for them with some spiritual significance, you should check out Fountivegrace.com and use promo code X-Files. That's EX Files to get $15 off. your first order. And with that, let us now commence with the Exorcist Roundtable.

Hey, everybody. It's good to be with you this week. And I have two special guests. I have Father John Zeta, who has been a friend of mine for years now. I think, Father, gosh, maybe some 15 years or so. Close to it. Close to it. Close to it. And Father Dan Mehill, who is a dear friend as well, more recent. But all of us, all three, of us met each other via the exorcism circles and more specifically one of the conferences that are held annually for exorcists. So I thank each of you for being on the show today. And the flavor of today, what I hope to do is we're going to address some of the questions that people have sent in. And I'm going to add my own in there just to give a flavor of what it is

like to do what we do, and the kinds of things that make us tick as individuals. And so the first question I would like to ask is, what would you say off the top of your head is the most difficult thing about exorcism? Father John. What I run into the problem with is people who expect a quick fix. They will come in with their issues, their symptoms. A lot of times they are self-diagnosing, and they will come in with all kinds of symptoms, and they're convinced that they're possessed, and therefore they want an ectrism, and they want it now. And so being able to convince people that, you know, number one, they're not necessarily possessed, and we have to deal with other issues. Or number two, maybe there is some real sense of a possession, partial or

fool, and we have to deal with it in process and not just a simple immediate exorcism and take care of the problem. So I think those preliminary things are actually even more difficult than dealing with the exorcism rituals itself. I would agree with that. I also think one of the biggest problems I run into here is it's very few Catholics that come to me for help. So I don't have the, you know, the great gift of the sacraments to work with them. And then in the aftercare, like, they go away and they just, we really never hear from them again, which I guess is a good thing. It means, I guess everything is working the way they wanted to. But it's not very relational when you have people like that. It's like a pit stop, fix me, and then they move along. It's not one

and done. I find almost all of the cases I have right now are all repeat every other week. I put them down for a two-week cycle. And as they're coming back, there's new cases coming. on. So there is an overload, I find, and I really, I'm getting to the point where I'm like, if you're not 100% willing to work to get free with everything I give you to do, I can't help you. Come back when you get to the point where you're ready. I used to try to help everybody, but it's so, there's two of us, too. We have two exorcists in my dices, and it's just, there's just too many cases. They just keep coming. And as you said, they're not all real cases. So weeding out people who have mental illness,

weeding out people who really just have some kind of a strange fascination with evil, and they're just looking for attention. There's just a whole bevy of people that walk, you know, or call on the phone, walk through the door. So that's frustrating. Yeah, and I hear you both. You know, for my part, what each of you say rings true. You know, time and time over, we run into this belief.

that what we practice is akin to some kind of magic, that all we need to do is utter these prayers the church has given us in this magic red book, and poof, the devil is gone. And if we do it quick enough, then the victim isn't late for dinner either. So it's just that kind of attitude, that flippancy about the whole process, that, you know, exorcism is a process of ending one relationship and forging another. And, you know, relationships take time. And the Lord himself at times doesn't want an exorcism to end speedily for his own reasons.

Sometimes we can identify the reasons. Sometimes we can't. But, you know, that attitude of somebody comes and we've all been there. We've all, all of us, where somebody, Father, I need you to get rid of the devil. and this is the way that I need you to do it. Whereas, you know, in other words, there isn't a trust and a humility from the start that you're going to pick the way to do it. You're the expert. You're the doctor.

And I'm going to follow suit. You know, so often we're interrupted by saying, you know, do we really have to do this? Isn't there a way to do this more speedily? So that, you know, for myself, for my part, when I was working in the ministry full time, when I was. I was one of the exorcists in the diocese where I was stationed. You know, the first thing that I did was I tested people's goodwill. How badly does this person want to be liberated? So I put, I don't want to say obstacles, but I put tests in front of them.

Like, okay, I want you to do an awvina of adoration sessions for nine weeks at our Lady of Guadalupe Church, which is around the corner from where you live. So every Wednesday night from 8 to 9 p.m., I want you to, to sit in front of the Blessed Sacrament. Can you do that? And sometimes I get an answer, well, Father, Wednesday nights, that's the night I do groceries. Well, okay, what about Thursday nights? Well, Thursday nights, that's when I visit my mom. Okay, Tuesday nights. Well, Tuesday nights, my kids play ball. In other words, there's every excuse that, well, you don't want to get rid of the devil. There's the door. Don't let it hit you on your way out. Come back when you're ready to drop everything

and get rid of the devil. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time and worse, you're wasting my time. So I completely and totally hear what you all are saying. One of the things that I mentioned in the show and in an episode and a lot of people picked up on it is my kind of post-exercism routine. And I have to admit, I didn't invent this routine. I saw it modeled by Monsignor Patrick Brankin in The Exorcist for Tulsa. And it just was so cool that I replicated it myself. And that is, at the end of a session, the team, or at least whoever from the team is available, we would go to a Mexican restaurant and I, for one, would have a tall margarita to begin the meal. Do each of you have a post-exercism routine?

Partially it depends on the time. There are days, yes, where we do, we would go out to lunch or we would go exactly to get something to eat. But that also depends upon the team because I have a very professional. team, and a lot of times they do not have the luxury of taking the time to do that. But when we can, yes, we do. Okay. I don't. Maybe I do, but we don't do anything, but I'm always exhausted, and I just want to go home and, like, rest. Oftentimes I can't because I'm a pastor. So, you know, this day, like Wednesday, we have afternoon adoration, benediction, mass confession. So if I have something on a Wednesday, I can't, the day's not over. But, you know, this day, like, Wednesday, we have,

But we do meet as a team to get together casually on like a quarterly basis where we can just kind of have a night with no stress, no demons, no devil talk and just enjoy our company. But it's not related to having just finished anything in particular. Okay. And father, how do you unwind in general, fathers? How do you unwind in general? I go to the gym and I try to kill myself with too many weights. and then I come home and I jump in a 40 degree cold plunge tank for about six minutes. And I'm wide awake.

Okay. One of the things I hate is being cold. So that for me would be a horrifically painful thing. It is for me too. Believe me. It is a penance. But it does give you a ton of energy. You can go like five hours like you just are so supercharged.

And I turned 59 last month and I'm just at the age where I can't just wing it. I have to like put things in my life that are giving me more energy, more mental acuity. There's just a lot of health benefits. So, you know, I can bite the bullet for six minutes and the rest of the day you're kind of charged up. Okay. Father Zeta. You know, you said you turned 59. I turned 73 last week.

Happy birthday. Thank you. For me, no, I, you know. I never think about it in those terms of unwinding because I have so many things that are going on, responsibilities and so forth that I'm covering that I don't even think about unwinding. I guess if the most I could probably say I do is I play a few video games on my iPod or on my iPhone, one in particular with my sister. We go back and forth on a challenging little game that goes back and forth.

So I guess that's one way in which I unwind a little bit, but that's probably about the most to what I really do. Yeah, and for me, you know, one of the things I do is repairing relics for the church. And, you know, it's something I can do with my hands. I, well, I basically sit where I am right now. So I'm in an office slash lab where I have the equipment to do that kind of thing. I put on the lights that I need for that work and just basically start cleaning and making the repairs on these centuries old. reliquaries, which I just find really therapeutic. And when the job is done afterwards, it's back to, you know, like a good as new state. It's, you've rolled back the clock a couple centuries.

And there's this satisfaction that this thing will outlive me, that I've, I've contributed to the beauty of this object here that is going to be used in veneration by the church. Many people are going to benefit from it. And I had a part to play in it. I also, I love to read, I don't get a chance to read very much, but I absolutely love to read. I don't really do the movies or the TV thing. I just find that they just don't kind of generally stimulate me enough to hold my attention. But I love calling friends and just connecting with people with whom I haven't in a while. Amen.

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Again, it begins Monday, January 20th. God bless you. So with regard to the ministry of Exorcist, have you experienced a lot of you experienced any personal retaliation. So we'll say outside of the sessions. Oh, yes, absolutely. In fact, it was interesting because I had a case some years ago where I was asked to come to another diocese because they did not have an exorcist at that point. What happened was there was a person who was resigning from the masons. So we went and we took care of that. But then there was also a situation in which the pastor of the parish asked me to come and do an exorcism in a particular room,

which actually had been a confessional. And apparently a lot of the sexual abuse of children had taken place there. And so I did what I did. And the next day, I was definitely under attack, emotionally, spiritually, definitely under attack. And so I went to my good friend, Monsignor Grabowski, who is the exorcist for the Archeparchy of Philadelphia. And I said, I need some, I need prayer. I need some deliverance here. So we prayed. We're standing at the altar in his church. And so he's praying the prayers. And then all of a sudden the church bells began to ring. And he just looks at me. He continues on. And then they started

ringing again. He said, I don't understand this. These are on automatic timers. And they weren't supposed to be ringing. And why they were ringing. And I said, Monsignor, every time you mentioned the Immaculate Conception, the bells started to ring. What you didn't know was the church that I was in yesterday and this other diocese was the Church of the Immaculate Conception. And so that showed a powerful protection. Follow up on this, though, is this. I have told this story, I guess in one or more interviews that had been done. I recently had a phone call from that pastor, who is now actually the rector of the cathedral in his diocese, inviting me that he, He had heard the story, was delighted to hear it, and invited me to come to his diocese,

actually in a couple of weeks, to speak to a group of people about this very situation. So he's excited, and I was very happy and being able to share that. But, yes, I find that has happened any number of different times that you feel is emotional and even sometimes physical attack that occurs after, you know, particularly brutal sessions. Yes. I had a, it was kind of unusual because it wasn't a case I was working on, but I had an encounter with a woman who was practicing witchcraft and all sorts of occult things. I did know it, but immediately after we put the pieces together, but I had a wedding in a

different parish. I went up and did the wedding. This woman happened to be there. She, I guess, targets priests, it sounds like. and within a day I was in like the most soul-crushing desolation that I've never felt this in my whole life. Even living in my pagan years as a sinner, nothing like this, where you just can't pray, you feel like you're doomed to hell. You feel like there's nothing that's going to save you, even though mentally I know all that's not true. And it just overtakes you physically.

It's like, ugh. So a woman on my team who is up in that parish called and said, you know, she's having all these same symptoms, and so was one of the priests up there. And she didn't know I ever had this. And I go, that's exactly what I'm experiencing. And so I said, can you get here for direction? We can talk about it. So she came to the parish. We started talking about timelines. When she met this woman is when it started for her, the priest there, a young priest, when he encountered her, it started for him. It took him down for two weeks. He was in bed. And then the day it started with me was when I was at the wedding. And so I just said,

well, we're going to stop right now. We're going to pray. We're going to ask God, first of all, we forgive her for this, whatever she's done. We ask God to come into it and bless her. And then I broke things off of everybody. And it immediately lifted. And I was like, wow, if there's ever proof, you know, if you ever wanted proof that that was that, there it is. And that was a big lesson for me because I'm like, you know, when people say they think they've been cursed, I'm like, well, what did you do? And I'm like, I encountered her.

That's it. And she just put her horns up and said, I'm going after that one. So you live, you learn. You know, for myself, for my part, I had this one case and what occurred repeatedly for the first while, this case lasted several years, but for the first while, my cell phone would ring in the middle of the night or it would buzz with a text message. But the number was a nonsensical number or a number from an area code that just didn't exist. or was suppressed, you know, 23 years ago.

And the text messages would say nasty, horrific things. You know, leave her the F alone. She's ours. We're going to break your legs or some other kind of threat. So I would block the number and it just wouldn't phase it. The number would still get through, the same exact number. Or an entirely different number. And even if I powered down the phone, I would just, some time would go. by and then I would hear a ring again. So the phone was just powered up by itself. So for a while,

I had to sleep with the phone outside my room. But it was really just a while. As we peeled the demonic relationship off of her, then these kinds of ancillary things started to fade away and die down. The demon lost his strength. Father Zeta, you mentioned Freemason. You mentioned Freemason You two gentlemen, we just had an episode on Freemasonry on the podcast. Masonic issues are those things that you've encountered often? Yes. Oh, yes, yes. Can you share a bit about it?

Well, it's just a matter of, you know, people are, I have a case right now where an individual is attempting to resign from the masons. But again, all of the roadblocks, all of the different things that show up and come in, But, you know, interestingly enough, we're talking about the messages that you get after the interviews regarding pre-Masonry. I got a text message one day. And I said, why are you Catholic so against Masons? We're a good group. It was just all of these kinds of things attacking me for attacking the Masons.

So they've ran into a lot of difficulties and roadblocks and even sometimes physical harassment as a result of trying to resign or to break. But then also there's generational things. You'll find out people who are under attack, but it's because the grandfather or the great-grandfather was a Mason, and so those curses are passing down through the families. So that's probably what I encounter more often than anything. Yeah, I'm pretty public about speaking to my parishioners about this problem. If you have a Mason in your family, you need to pray these prayers to break the curses off of your family. So people will regularly come to me and say, do you think I should?

I'm like, look, if there's any, we're never going to know for sure, because if you go back three, four, I don't know who my fourth generation grandfather was or what he was doing. But here's the clue. When people say, I've been to the doctor, I've been to five doctors. Nobody can tell me what's wrong with me. Okay, well, if the physical can't find it, then maybe it is spiritual. And that's when I say, come through these prayers with me and let's see what happens. sometimes immediately they find the issues have just lifted and gone away. Other times it's not so easy because, you know, there's always, sometimes there's also

healing components that have to take place to kind of close things down. But we have an additional issue here in this, where I am, in that, and Father, you've been there. Father Carlos has been there where we built a Catholic church around a Masonic lodge. And that thing is still there. And I'm convinced it's a source of a lot of problems. for that parish and for that region of our diocese. And there's not a lot we can do until we've tried to buy the building and they won't sell it. And whenever that was done, you know, clearly that wasn't

thought through about what are the implications of putting a church around the lodge. So there's that. And that's also the parish where that woman was where I went up and did the wedding. It was that parish. So these things, they matter. Yeah. And that particular parish he's talking about. I've been there a couple times. You know, it literally, the entire parish complex is hugging this Masonic building. It is literally built up against it. So, I mean, it just, it leaves you scratching your head how the marriage of these two things ever happened. But you know what? For their part, I can guarantee you that business is not problem free for them, because guaranteed. I mean, being surrounded by a Catholic church, they're receiving

the spillover grace that's interfering with everything that is demonic within the rituals and within the practice that happens they're in. And I affirm, we just had an episode on Freemasonry Air, and the generational curses, those are, in my experience, they're the only problem that I've ever seen. In other words, I have never encountered an actual Mason, somebody who has just entered the fraternal organization, exhibit the problems like Father Rehill you were talking about, the undiagnosed illnesses and doctors can't find a cause for this or for that issue, or the night disturbances, the recurring nightmares, the taps on the shoulders that come from nowhere and the sensation of being watched. But the descendants do,

right? Like the demons definitely, with masonry, they definitely seem to be in it for the long game. and so the oaths give them a right, give them a jurisdiction, but there's a kind of delay in that, or at least they are content with not going after the Mason himself, but just going after the descendants of the Mason. Would you say that that relates with your experience? Absolutely. Yeah, it does. And it makes sense to me because if they leave the Mason alone, he'll continue to progress along in all those degrees until he's, until he's, you know, this deep, buried, and now he's trapped.

Right. And then the family doesn't even know Masonry has become such a part of that individual or has such a presence in the family in general through the generations that they don't even think of that as being a potential cause. And I have to admit that sometimes the Masonic presence was so remote in people. As I've said before in a podcast and in my writings and interviews, When I was thrown into this, I had zero training. And so I had to kind of forge my way through this.

And then finally, I had this. This was a young man whose behavior started to change in about a three-month period so drastically. He had a Scottish last name and his maternal side was English. And so I thought, you know, it seems reasonable. I can't find any doorway. I mean, there was nothing morally that the kid had done by which you could see would be a doorway, It would see would be a wound by which evil entered in. But he, in his family, in particular, is a relationship with his father.

When his father entered the room, there was a visceral hatred that would come into his face and his eyes. And he would occasionally attack his father. And the attack was so visceral that furniture would end up being broken and so forth. So, you know, I asked him the usual question, did your father do anything to make you angry? No. I mean, he was the epitome of normal when he was talking with me. If his father entered the room, he would go bonkers. And so all I did in a frustration of not knowing what else to do,

I just let him through like maybe three or four basic Masonic renounce you. I renounce free masonry. I renounce any presence it has in my life. I renounce any covenants my great-grandfather may have made or any ancestor who became a mason. I renounce any of the covenants made by poof. It was it. It was done and it was over and it was over even without a manifestation in the guy. And then his father enters the room.

And from that day forward, the old kid was back. And now it's been 14 years after the fact, 14 years later, the exact same result. Yeah. So the Masonic thing is a thing that although the Masons are advertising that their membership is going down, I personally don't believe it because what I'm seeing is more and more folks are signing up to be Masons. They're undergoing some pretty dramatic advertising campaigns. even in, for example, in Ohio, just outside of Dayton, I spend a lot of my time on the road. There's an immense billboard.

Like, when I say immense, you take your average highway side billboard and make it into four. So four times as large. And for the first time ever in my life, I saw the Mason's advertising. And it just said, do you know the sign? And then there was the compass and square, the Masonic Compass and Square. So they're pulling people in. And there's such a lack of religious literacy today. And people just don't know that this is something that's been condemned by the church for specific reasons.

Another thing that is just making constant inroads. And even I find Christian retreat centers are doing this, having yoga sessions, yoga classes. Do either of you have any experience? So we have a yoga episode on the podcast as well. Do you have any, if you had any encounters specifically of people becoming oppressed, possessed, because of the practice of yoga? Yes, not possessed, but certainly oppressed. You know, when you begin to do the investigation as to what's behind the symptoms that you are experiencing, yes, you encounter that and you discover the fact that, yeah, they had practiced yoga and been involved in some of those things. And when you try to explain to them, you know, why that there's a problem, you know, they're just flabbergasted.

Well, it's just good exercise. I said, but no, there's more to it than that, and I try to explain it to them. But yes, I've encountered it any number of times, very much so. And to get rid of it, did you find that was easily done enough? What was that like? Well, it was easy once the individual accepted the fact that there was a problem there and that this was really the source of the symptoms that they were experiencing. Once they were willing to accept that and renounce that, then it was very very, fairly easy to get rid of. Yes.

This is the topic that I get the most pushback from people on is yoga. Even guys. I just had a discussion two days ago with a gentleman who was kind of ranting about, like, you know, there's other priests say you're crazy and you're going too far overboard with this yoga stuff. Why can't I do yoga if it helps me feel better? And I said, listen, do whatever you want. I don't care.

Like, don't call me and then yell at me. and you want me to give you a free pass. You're in charge of your own life. You don't want to listen to me. I don't have to, but I'm not changing my position on it. As far as people that actually are having demonic problems with yoga, I've not had that as a case, but I met a woman in California when I was there doing a mission who did have this problem.

She got into the yoga. She flew to India to get trained as a master in the Kundalini stuff, went way too deep in and completely like had demons cross. crawling all over at night. So she flies back to America to get free. And then she was working with a Californian exorcist to get herself back clean. She did get clean. And now she goes around on these circuits trying to explain to people. It's real. And you can't do it. And it doesn't happen to every single person. That's the other thing that people throw up in your face. Well, I have friends that have been doing for you. Nothing happened to them. I'm like, this isn't science.

It's like if you add oxygen to this, it's going to produce that. This is, we don't know every single person has a makeup of chemistry that's unique to themselves. So you're going to interact your emotions, your body, your spirituality won't react differently to things than the next guy. But we do know it's dangerous. You know, when the little boy tries to put his hand up on the burner, don't touch that. It's hot. Some people like that. They have to find out for themselves.

And until they do, you can't convince them. If you don't mind my throwing this in here, I had a related situation, had a phone call the other week from an individual, and apparently he's a professional healer, if you want to call it that, and he has a case of a woman, and he's very concerned because he can't help her, he can't get rid of the problems that she's encountering. And he even says to me on the phone that he's a rakey master. And I went, okay, red flags, boy, he got an earful for me that day, you know, to realize the fact that he was only making the situation. worse rather than trying to be able to help the person that, you know, but I was just amazed that a so-called raking master would call me and ask me for help. Yeah, and they don't see the very problem of their craft, of their practice, that you are willing a spiritual increase in a person.

And you can do that because you yourself have been initiated by someone who's invoked upon you, this energy. I mean, to a Christian, there should be alarm bells. going off here. We don't function into that. That is pure paganism. And that is a doorway where any demon at all can be part of the makeup there. Because you're just accepting this non-specific energy. And you're accepting it. You're forming a relationship with it. You're allowing it to come into you. And if you're allowing it to come into you, any contamination at all could be there. But you've just given an open door and offered it a home. And so now, you know,

You know, you're puzzled as heck. You know, there's bad stuff happening. And it's not operating according to my plan because things shouldn't be like this. But, you know, the kicker is the fact that your plan is not the operative one. Your plan is as unimportant as the price of tea in China right now. It has to do with the fact that you're in a wrong relationship. And you want the effects of a positive relationship with God, with the spiritual realm, with reality. you know, you want happiness, but you're in the wrong kingdom, friend, right? So you can't get the

benefits of one kingdom while you belong to the wrong one. And so it means you've got to reform your life and your practice. But I've been doing this for years, but I'm a good person inside, but, you know, I have a nice haircut, but, you know, I feed my goldfish at least once a day. All of this irrelevant crap, right? The fact is, you're in the wrong relationship, pal. And if you want the benefits of a good relationship in the spiritual realm of being in in God's good graces, then you've got to do things the way he wants. And as long as you do it in an alternative way, you're going to get these alternative results. Yeah. And it requires the change. This is back to the very first opening of the show. It requires repentance and change. And people don't like to feel

like they have to change something in their life. They want you to just validate that they can have this and they'll be okay. And so would you say, fathers, in your cases, I mean, we've had tons of people that have come to us, you know, looking for liberation, just off the top of your head, what would be the percentage of people who come to you looking for liberation that they don't really want to do what is necessary to bring it about? If you had to put that in a percentage, give me a percentage. 60%.

Not willing. Yeah. Yeah, I would agree with that. I think what I find is that it depends on how severe the affliction is. You know, when a person has a very severe affliction, whatever it might happen to be, the more difficulty they're experiencing, the more apt they are to make the changes. The symptomology is fairly mild. They can't see the connection between what they're experiencing and what they've done.

Yeah. And part of that equation is you have to re-ignite your relationship with the Lord. that's a stumbling block for a lot of people. I don't want to do that. I said, well, then I can't help you because it's mercy for me to leave you alone rather than clean your house and have seven worse come back. And they look at me like I'm crazy. I said, don't worry, you'll be back.

It's just going to have to get to the point where this is too painful to live with. And that was exactly the point of the podcast of my case that has just gone on. She didn't make the changes and she became repossessed. And Al, thanks be to God, she's doing very, very well. Bless it be God. You know, Father or Monsignor Patrick Brankin out of Tulsa, who I don't know if you know him, Father Rehiel, but certainly Father Zeta knows him well. He shared about last season on a podcast, and he shared about how he talked about the loneliness of the life of the exorcist in the sense that your average priest friends just can't relate to you. what you experience in the course of your ministry as an exorcist, most priests, they may hear you

out, but you can tell they would probably not have you talk about that and would rather talk about baseball or waffles or what have you. And, you know, a lot of your friends that you had before this kind of drop you because for many different reasons, all the way from I might get spiritually contaminated if I hang around him. You know, they're just uncomfortable with the concept in general, and they can't believe that you're willing to be medieval in your thinking. You know, we thought you were a sensible priest and didn't believe in this mythology that is a vestige from the Middle Ages. So they describe, you know, as the life as being pretty lonely. And would you offer a comment on that?

I don't find that here in my diocese. Thanks be to God. I have a very supportive, Presbyterate and Bishop. And in fact, I've been asked many times to come to different parishes, to different organizations, different places, to speak about this. In fact, in anything, I think it's the opposite. I get kind of overwhelmed with the invitations to please come and talk to us about these things because we know that these are real and we appreciate your help. And our priests are very good, too.

I've gotten them to the point where if that case comes up, they will call me and say, this is what I'm encountering, what should I do, how shall I handle this? And so it enables me to kind of form out some of the stuff that can be done by the local pastor rather than having to do it all myself. And so it goes back to something you said before, Father, in terms of I'm finding the cases that I really have to deal with are the people who are not Catholic. They don't have the sacramental system that, you know, we can fall back on for Catholics. So many of the other cases are things that the local pastors have trouble dealing with. That's what I'm doing with. But fortunately,

In my diocese, I don't have that problem. I don't find it lonely either. I mean, I was a contemplative hermit for five years. I wish I could be alone that much. Some days, I just feel I'm too busy. Most days, I'm too busy. But the priest that I've become friends with, my best friend is the other exorcist,

and he was my best friend here before he became an exist. He used to be, the fireman in California, used to the forest jumpers. They jump into the forest fires. So I'm like, oh, I said to the bishop, This guy, he's not afraid of fire. He'll be fine as the exorcist. And he's a great guy. And the first case I ever had, the first, when I did the right, that pastor was so good about reintegrating that. And he was present for the exism. And it was painful for him to watch. We've been very good friends all along. And he looks at it as a great gift because he's like, I love that I can call you and you can help these people. And then the young priests, I can send them the digital intake form and say if you think you've got a case that looks, you know, it doesn't seem to fall into any other boxes but this, go ahead and give them the form and have them complete it.

And then you and I can discuss it. And they're open to that. So I feel like this is shifting as the newer men keep taking up posts. I agree. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah, I find the younger clergy, there's certainly a different vintage coming through where the notion of somebody being possessed is not an exotic notion anymore. It doesn't stretch and

contort their base theology. Their theology includes this within it. And for a lot of people who are listening, they'll think, duh, well, how can it not? Because possession and demons, spiritual warfare, and exorcism, you know, that's straight out of the pages of the gospel. So in fact, you know, Jesus is only ever doing two things. He's either preaching the word or he's performing the work. And a great portion of that work is driving out demons. And that being so, yes, but we're coming off an incredibly long winter where in the 20th century, just as in the world order, there was such horrific violence, you know, that the world wars, the Cristero wars, the internal civil wars of countries, the mass killing by totalitarian leaders. Like the 20th century was an absolutely bloody century. And that bloodiness also carried over into theology, into the interpretation of revelation.

So it was kind of like a bottle of poison was just released into the world and just people went nuts. And so now we're coming into a place theologically where we haven't been in, my gosh, in seven decades, where, yeah, it just goes without saying. I mean, you talk to a young man today who's in the seminary. he doesn't have this identity crisis. And when asked, why do you want to be a priest? He doesn't give a vacuous answer. And I don't want to belittle this answer, but this is the kind of answer you would get very often from priests who are sharing how they would answer this question when they entered the seminary in the 70s, let's say, or in the 80s.

Why do you want to be a priest? Well, they would say, like, I want to help people. But now you talk to a young man, well, I feel a personal call from Christ. to share in his ministry. And they often have a sacramental note to their language. I feel cold into the liturgy and to be a participant in it at the level of the sacrifice. And when I'm in the liturgy, I hear God. And I want that for me. Another one, I have the experience of having my sins forgiven while I was in the confessional, transformed me and made me aware that there's a desire within me to be a priest. So there's this sacramental note within their experience. They're couching it

within the very sacramental nature of the church. So this kind of thing is very different. So we are seeing right before our eyes this long identity crisis disappearing. frankly you can't stop it now because that crisis is not being promulgated it's not being promulgated within the seminaries at least not in north america and i get around i'm in upwards of 300 different cities a year and you know in each city i ask the same questions you know how many vocations do you have how many priests do you have and so i have a pulse i have my questions by which i get a sense of the pulse of each of these places. And when you encounter seminarians, because they'll come to my events, they come all the

time. I ask, what's seminary like? What are you taught? What made you want to be a priest? This identity crisis is just not there. So we're reaching a different time. But anyway, Father, I want to respect your time, Father Rehiel. I know you had a hard stop right around now.

So I thank you both for being on the show. And Father Rehiel, would you give us and all the listeners your blessing? Of course, name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, amen. Heavenly Father, we give you thanks and praise for the gift of your church, of your priesthood of this ministry to save souls from the devil. We ask you to pour out your spirit upon anyone who will listen to this and open their hearts and minds, the reality and the truth of your saving power to bring them through any crisis they're dealing with, and that they would be given graces to become saints in this

life to worship you forever in the next night. bless you all the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Thank you very much, fathers, and bless the rest of your day. Thank you so much. Thank you.