The Exorcist Files - The Nature of Demons, Justice, and Forgiving Others With Fr. Gregory Pine

Episode Date: September 12, 2026

In this episode of The Exorcist Files, host Ryan Bethea and Father Carlos Martins share key updates on Season 3—including an October 5th premiere date, an exclusive sneak peek audio clip, and a personal prayer request.Then, Dominican friar Father Gregory Pine joins the show to tackle listener questions on spiritual warfare. They discuss how demons try to derail vocations, overcoming regret and envy, what Christ meant by "turning the other cheek," and how to choose forgiveness in the face of deep betrayal.Order Father's Book- FatherCarlosMartins.comThank you to our Sponsorshttps://Exodus90.com/exfilesRight now, Babbel is offering listeners up to 60% off. Go to https://Babbel.com/EXFILESLive Better Longer with BUBS Naturals. For A limited time get 20% Off your entire order with code EXFILES20 at httsp://Bubsnaturals.comLet Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. https://Rocketmoney.com/exfilesGet 25% Off Cowboy Colostrum with code EXFILES at https://www.cowboycolostrum.com/EXFILESGet the Born Again Identity- listen hereTimestamps:01:29 | Housekeeping & Season 3 Launch Date Announcement04:31 | Sneak Peek Clip: Season 3 Case File (“The Wound and the Wolf”)07:45 | Father's Announcement10:10 | Speaking Dates, The Exorcist Files Book & Welcoming Fr. Gregory Pine13:40 | Sponsor Break: Exodus 90, Babbel, Bubs Naturals18:13 | Banter & Opening Remarks with Fr. Gregory Pine19:22 | Can Demons Stop You From Finding Your Vocation?21:26 | God’s Will, Desires, and Human Freedom in Discernment26:41 | Sponsor Break: Rocket Money & Cowboy Colostrum29:50 | Cultural Despair, Influencer Culture, and Lies Targeting Youth34:39 | Regret, Midlife Anxiety, and the Long-term Study on Love & Happiness37:01 | Fighting Envy, Scarcity Mindset, and the Mystical Body42:07 | Dealing with Deep Injustice, Anger, and How to Choose Forgiveness51:14 | Listener Question: Celebrating All Saints’ Day on Halloween55:00 | Justice vs. Charity: What Does “Turn the Other Cheek” Mean?01:03:07 | Grace: Comparing Catholic and Protestant Perspectives01:07:20 | Marian Apparitions & Private Revelation01:09:00 | Spiritual Warfare on the Internet & Dealing with Harsh Feedback01:17:11 | Navigating a Toxic Workplace01:18:52 | Trivia Game: Three Anthonys & Sign-offSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

There are certain things that demons can do, and there are certain things that demons can't do. Demons, for one, cannot enter the inner sanctuary of your mind and heart. But what they can do is they can suggest things. And when you take up those suggestions, then they work their way inside. We are doing a series on trying to expose the lies of the enemy, and we're talking to great friends of the show, like Father Gregory Pine, to help us expose some of those lies. If you ask young people like, what do you want to be when you grow up? The plurality of respondents in China will say an astronaut. The plurality of respondents in the United States will say an influencer.

So, Father, when Jesus has turned the other cheek, what do you think he means with that phrase? You're never going to have perfect justice, but you can cultivate perfect charity. Christian isn't called to be a victim or a doormat, but the Christian isn't called to right every this world be wrong. The internet is designed to command your attention and to populate your imagination and to drain your wallet. So if you're not sure of what's being sold on the internet, you're being sold. I took a group of men and they did a longitudinal study over the course of the next whatever 70 years. To see if they could determine what makes for happiness, their result was... Welcome back to The Exorcist Files.

I am your co-host. You love third most, second most. It changes daily, depending on who you talk to. And with me is my esteemed colleague who can actually consecrate the host. And that is Father, Carlos Martins. Hello, Father, how we doing? Hey, Ryan, I'm doing well. Yeah, good to be here.

We've got some announcements and some housekeeping. And the biggest one is, Father, the fans have been interceding now for a year. And we've gotten lots of comments, some nicer than others, saying, where are my cases? Where, oh, where are my dramatic cases? And I think we finally have an answer for them. Father, what's happening on October 5th? Well, the Exorcist Files season three will drop on that day. And we picked October 5th for two reasons.

One, it is the feast day of St. Bartololongo, who was an ordained satanic priest. I mean, there's no such thing as ordination and Satanism. but they call it that. They have a mock ordination. The point is that he was a practicing Satanist, made a pact with the devil, exchanged his soul in exchange for lots of sex. That's what he wanted.

And so eventually the devil came to collect, and his health began to fade incredibly. And someone told him about the promises of the rosary that Our Lady makes, that those who pray the rosary and promote it, that she will come in and intervene in a special and signal way in their lives. And that's exactly what happened. And so this former Satanist turned Catholic saint.

And he always remained a layman after that. He didn't go on and become a priest. He became a married layman. But is famous for being a tremendous devotee of the Rosary of Our Lady and even made a mention long before his canonization. in Pope John Paul II's apostolic letter on the rosary. The other reason for October 5th, it is the Feastay of St. Faustina Kowalska, the great apostle of divine mercy born in Poland, whom John Paul II canonized.

And so it is a great day for two great saints. And we thought this is an ideal time for us to launch our seas. and of course the conversion of a Satanist and the apostle of mercy who puts us in who called us to focus on the great mercy of God who is Jesus Christ himself. Wow. Well, well, I think just so they know, we're not just all talk here on the show. I mean, technically I'm all talk because that's all I do for a living. But we're going to actually play you a little sneak peek of season three.

So one of my favorite things to do, let's roll that clip. Because Kelsey lived alone, Glenn and Jane persuaded her to stay at Jane's apartment for a few nights just to be safe. She was staying in the upstairs bedroom and had gone to bed. Jane was downstairs cleaning the dinner dishes, had turned off the lights, and was heading towards her room to go to sleep. As she walked to her room, she heard it ever so suddenly, a mocking laughter. The kind two men might share when they make an inappropriate joke. Kelsey was supposed to be alone. Jane walked quietly to the bedroom door

and pressed her ear against it. Jane knocked and opened the door. Kelsey? Is someone there? The moment Jane opened the door, the laughter stopped. Instantly. Kelsey lay asleep in her bed.

Her phone rested on the nightstand. It screened black. Nothing was plain. Then out of the corner of her eyes, something moved. A shadow moved across the wall as if someone had walked in front of the lamp, except no one did.

Jane felt the chill raced through her body. Later, she would describe it with only three words. It felt evil. Oh, Jesus, help me. At around 3.30 that morning, Jane woke for a glass of water. When she returned to bed,

she couldn't shake what had happened. So she prayed. Lord. touch Kelsey. Please, God, just take away everything that's wrong with her. Kelsey? Jane leaped out of bed, ran down the hall, and entered Kelsey's room. Kelsey was sitting upright in bed, perfectly still.

Eyes open, unblinking. She didn't react to Jane's voice. And for the briefest instant, Jane was certain she wasn't looking at Kelsey. she saw the face of a disfigured man. All right, father, it's pretty cool, huh? That was a really well-done clip. You know, this story, the wound in the wolf, is actually one of my favorite accounts. And I don't want to give any spoilers about it, but it was one that was really emotional for me.

And when people hear it, they'll know why. I thought the team, the production team, did a good job at capturing what this victim went through and what all of the people went through in bringing in their attempt to bring this victim to healing. And it just, look, at the end of the day, the exorcism is a process. And, you know, we want a one and done. We want everything to be done yesterday. Many times, most times, God just has a different plan. And we just have to roll with his plan. You know, and in the end, his plan is better. It's hard for us to see that at times, but you know what? At the end of the day, you're not God and neither am I.

So we just have to let whoever is God to be God. And that's all there is to it. Absolutely. Well, folks, October 5th, we're going to launch our first case file. It's not our traditional Wednesday release, but as you've seen, we sometimes get a little off track. And that's actually a great segue because I know we normally release episodes on Wednesdays, And the 5th is not a Wednesday. October 5th is actually a Monday, but we just want to get it to you sooner.

And we thought that feast day would be great. But speaking of irregular schedules, we have been a little on and off with our Wednesday tempo. And part of that is, Father Martins, I'll let you jump in here. But a little bit of a personal situation. We wanted to ask our fans to pray for. Yeah. And the reason why is my godson, the first of the godchildren that I ever had, is dying. Henry has stage four cancer. He doesn't have much longer to live. I was just with him over the weekend,

and he looks horrible. He's under 100 pounds now, and the end is not far off, but it just hurts to see that. And I have prayed for his healing for several months ever since I first found out about his condition, ever since he first told me. and a healing has not been in the plans of God. And so we just have to accept that. And so I just pray for a smooth transition into the next life for him, peaceful transition and that he won't have to suffer any more than what the Lord desires in that transition, in moving on from this life into eternal life. But I also pray for the consolation of his wife and his,

children. He has two very young children. And both are, you know, one is, one is eight years old and one is four years old. And I just, I'm grieved for them, for their sake. And, of course, the past several months for them, as they've seen their father deteriorate, has been very difficult. So, folks, if you can spare some prayers for Henry and his family, I would be so grateful. Absolutely. Definitely. Thank you, folks. Thank you for supporting us and praying for us. implications that is that fathers had to travel a little bit to be with them and so we've been unable to sometimes meet our regularly scheduled programming but to end on a brighter note before we let

father pine take over and answer some of your most pressing questions we also want to let you know that father martins will actually be doing i won't call it a book tour but he will be going out and doing some speaking engagements on the east coast and so if you're interested in seeing father martens we will let you know as some of those dates come together but you're your favorite Exorcist might be in town. And also, we are getting near the holiday season. And I can think of no better gift for someone. Then, well, obviously the gift of salvation.

But beyond that, the gift of Father Martin's book, The Exorcist Files. It is almost two years since it came out, right, Father? It has been, yeah, hard to believe. Wow. Okay. So, Father, would you say, is it one of the best stocking stuffers you can give? If you haven't gotten your priest that and your favorite best friend that, gosh, I would highly recommend it.

Okay, all right. Well, folks, just you can head to exorcistfiles.tv or father carlosmartins.com, and you can click the link in the show notes. You can also get a copy of that book and leave a review if you can to. That really helps us out. So with that note, thank you so much for tuning in. Thank you, Father Martins. And now I turn it over to Father Gregory Pine. Enjoy. Welcome back to the Exorcist Files. I'm your co-host. You love second-most Ryan Bethay. And today I have a special guest. He's no stranger to the pod. And he's no stranger to the pod. And he's no stranger. to God. In fact, he's a legend undergoing sanctification as we speak. He's a Dominican friar constantly praying to take us higher. In fact, he's so full of faith that were he to star in a spy thriller with Tom Cruise, it would simply be known as mission quite possible. In fact, I've heard he's so rooted in Christ that mountains ask him to move. He can teach and lecture from the

biblical book of Chronicles or the Chronicles of Narnia at whim. He is not down with O.P.E. but he is an O.P. He's so full of integrity that even his hips can't lie. He's a caped crusader, but don't worry, not those crusades. And some would say he was the inspiration for Lou Bega's first four Mombos before finally reaching the pinnacle of musicality in Mombo. Number five, please welcome the habit you just can't break, my dear friend to the merciful end of this podcast. Father Gregory Pime. That was nice. I haven't thought about Lou Began. a while but every time i do think of lubaig it brings a smile to my face and a song to my heart so thank you

that's right that's right all right well i i know i don't know why he popped into mind with you but actually did you know he moved back to germany did he really is that where he's from i don't know i i wouldn't have guessed germany from the song no doesn't give german vibes most of the names of the women that he enumerates uh aren't german names and by most of mean all i know you speak german because you how How would Mambo number five, how would you say a little bit of, because how would that sound in German? Like, untaigneza. I don't even know. I'm just going to move on.

Ein sfeid. Never mind. Just keep going. Amazing. Well, Father of mine, thank you so much for joining the program today. We've got a lot to discuss and some fan questions that have come in. And don't worry, this isn't behind the paywall. This is just behind the prey wall.

So now, this is the spiritual warfare podcast. And so before we even get into all that, we do want to give a shout out to actually an organization that you and I both have an affinity for and work with. They're a proud sponsor of the show. Exodus 90. Aren't they awesome, Father? They are indeed. Actually, you're doing something with Exodus 90, if I recall. I am.

So Exodus 90 is a program for helping men find uncommon freedom in Christ. and specifically by helping them with fraternity, accountability, ascetical practices, and encouragements to prayer. And folks can download the Exodus 90 app. So I'm pitching in with the challenge for the month of the rosary, so from September 30th to October, I think 30th, October 31st, they transitioned you into another set of meditations with Bishop Connolly and Dr. John Bergsma. but they have various programs that last anywhere from, you know, 30 to 45 to 90 days in semi-continuous fashion. So you've got cool challenges with cool meditations, reading of sacred scripture, spiritual insights, and then, of course, the practices to which the men commit themselves for whatever period of time.

So cheers to Exodus 90. There you go. You can go to Exodus 90.com slash X-Files. If you, for some reason, want more of Father Pine, go to Exodus 90. download the app, get a free trial, or undergo a trial, depending on if you're going to work with him or not. Exactly. Welcome to the Exorcist Files. Welcome to the Exorcistin Acton.

Bienvenidos to the Archivoste. And finally, I have some work to do on my elvish, and probably the others too. Okay, so I have some work to do on my Elvish, and probably the others too. but that's okay because you know why there's babble and isn't it fun to learn a new language it's also phenomenal for your brain but there's a lot of reasons to learn a new language and for that you should look no further than babble even just 10 minutes a day with babel can help you start having real conversations in as little as three weeks instead of memorizing random vocabulary

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I suspect that I'm doing too much. Maybe I should do less. You ever have that experience? Well, I actually have the experience of people asking me if they think Father Pine is doing too much. In fact, we have a mutual friend who was saying, hey, can you tell Father Pine to maybe take a breather? He seems to be everywhere. He is everything everywhere all at once. Exactly. It's a kind of eternal sunshine of the spotless mind insofar as people can draw connections between. It is depressing. But those two plots are not unlike.

I look on that movie later. Yeah. The plots of those two movies are not unalike. Yeah. No, it's a really good movie. Well, Father Pine, why don't we dig into some questions today that we've got from our listeners, myself, and all those? Now, we are a spiritual warfare podcast, I'd be remiss if we didn't get started just for the fans who are here for the spiritual warfare. And this sheet, actually, this question comes courtesy of one of our vault members. And our vault members, we are so grateful for your support. And so I want to make sure to honor your question, but it's actually a great question. So it says, Father Pine, can demons? And I'll add, to this and will they try to stop you from finding your vocation? Yes. So we've talked about this before on the podcast. There are certain things that demons can do and there are certain things that demons can't do. Demons for one cannot enter the inner sanctuary of your mind and heart. that is to say they can't force entry by violence. Now the question of possession or oppression or kind of mischief are questions that you address greater length with Father Martins. But the basic idea is like the demons can't read your mind or they can't control your will save by, you know,

invitation or with a kind of consent and cooperation. And so they can't frustrate the following of your vocation or they can't frustrate the fulfilling of your vocation. But what they can do is they can suggest things, not from the core of your person, but from outside. And when you take up those suggestions, then they work their way inside. So like demons, for instance, can propose images, or they can tinker with your senses, or they can kind of stir up temptations, all of which I'm sure you've talked about on the podcast at greater length. So it wouldn't be so much that, they make it impossible for you to discern a vocation. They just propose other things that engross you or distract you or otherwise divert you from your vocation. So we can have trust,

though, that we'll always have sufficient clarity and that we'll always have sufficient help to discern our vocation because demons we know are creatures. God is the creator. They operate with his permission and within the setting of his providence and governance. So they can't undermine his saving designs because he's actually using them in a way to accomplish those saving designs. And this brings up a question that I'm also fascinated with, and we've actually talked a little bit about this in our series, the Born Again Identity. But when someone asks like a vocation, is the Catholic teaching on this father that God has preset for some people, at least, a job or calling that he has asked them to go to? Or is it there are multiple options and sort of more similar

to our earthly families where if your child comes to you and says, hey, what do you think about this job? And you might say, great, what do you want to do? And are you equipped for that? I think the answer is yes and yes, but in different ways. So God knows what's going to happen in your life. But that doesn't make us unfree because God not only causes that the things happen, but he also causes how the things happen. And part of it. of how the things happened in our lives is by our free choice. So God entrusts us with free choice, and he's genuinely excited to see us exercise our free choice. And being said, God is suiting us to particular modes of life and perhaps not suiting us to other particular modes of life. So like,

I'm six feet, three slash four inches, depending on how you count it. So I will never, for instance, be really good at gymnastics. I'm too tall and rangy. Nor will I ever play center in the NBA, because I'm too short and unathletic. So we can attribute that to the will of God, who has made me, whom he has made me, and say that God imposes certain limits on who we are and what we're for and on the discernment that flows from that. Okay, so that on the one hand, on the other hand right so like god having given us these limits or created us within these limits he's also stirring up in us a variety of desires you know like the desire for love and the desire for devotion and the desire for a kind of perfect fulfillment and it's not always clear to us how those

desires are all meant to come together and and i think that you know we're free when discerning our vocation to make a determination like i think this is a good way in which to serve the in which to serve my fellow man and in which these desires come together. So, yeah, I think that when you put it in the one way God knows, but God causes it to come about freely, and our exercise of freedom is it's conditioned by how God has created us, but we're also, again, able to make a choice between X, Y, or Z on the basis of what we think fits or what we determine will, you know,

lead to happiness for us and for those who we love. So I don't know, does that answer your question? Is that helpful or is that unhelpful? Yeah, I mean, clearly from the Bible, we see examples of the apostle Paul. Like, he had his own choice for a while and then God knocked him off his horse and basically commissioned him and said, you have a new vocation, right? You're going to be, you know, a prolific apostle, an author of the New Testament. Now, I guess one could argue that Paul had chosen to be in the service of God already because everything he was doing he thought was protecting God and honoring God, right, as a Pharisee. But I'm just curious, but I guess you hear about people who have these profound experiences and, you know, they have perhaps a supernatural revelation and they think, oh, this is what

I'm supposed to do. But then I look back through history and I think, I wonder what percentage of people were just, you're farmers, like it was your vocation. This idea of me wrestling with what fulfills me and what I want to do. Sure. That seems a more modern gift. Contemporary. Yeah. No, I think you're absolutely right.

I'd say if people are really interested in this question, I have a couple of recommendations, which will lead them off your platform if you'll permit that to happen. So one is I wrote a book called Prudence. And the whole point of that book is to help people make decisions. And discernment is just making a big decision. So there are parts of that book, which are, you know, better written in parts of that book, which are worse written. But the real helpful chapters, I think for folks are going to be chapter six, seven, and eight. And then also,

we did a few podcasts on godsplining, uh, that are apropos of the theme. So like discerning your vocation, missing your vocation, messing up the will of God. I think a lot of people have questions around those things because, you know, they're worried or just concerned, maybe is a better word. And so those episodes could all be helpful depending upon where you find yourself at present. I think the basic idea is to kind of hold in mind that God is rooting for you and not just like rooting from the sidelines. He's giving you grace to discern your vocation and to fulfill your vocation. And that also regardless of what you choose, he's going to continue to offer you helps, you know, like lights and insights, graces and gifts. So it's not as if like God obscures what it is that he

wants from you, expecting you to kind of figure it out with very limited evidence, and then punishes you severely when you get it wrong, that would make God kind of creepy. I don't know about you, but one of the easiest ways to waste money is just to forget what you're paying for every month. You sign up for something, use it twice, and well, six months later, it's still quietly hitting your credit card. Set it and forget it, they said, well, it's a double-edged sword, and it can be brutal. That's where rocket money comes in. It puts your finances in one place, tracks your subscriptions,

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Well, with colostrum, there actually is some interesting research behind it. Now, Colostrum is the first milk produced after birth, and it now, naturally contains proteins, immunoglobulins, growth factors, and other bioactive compounds. In fact, studies in humans, particularly athletes and people training hard, do suggest that bovine colostrum may help support the intestinal barrier, especially when the gut is under stress from intense exercise. There's also some interesting data that it might help in other areas, such as upper respiratory health, et cetera, but that's still emerging. Cowboy colostrum uses whole first-day bovine colostrum from American grass-fed cows, and it's an easy addition to a daily routine.

it into coffee, a smoothie, or just take it on its own. Personally, I mix it into a smoothie, and like most things, you can't just take it a couple times and then decide if it works. Like most things, the studies showing the most concrete results required people to take it for at least four to 12 weeks. So you've got to take this for at least two months. This is not an overnight thing. Do your homework and look at it. For gut health especially, I think it's very interesting. For a limited time, our listeners get up to 25% off their entire order, just head to cowboy colostrum.com slash X-Files and use our code X-Files at checkout. That's 25% off when you use our code X-Files at cowboy colostrum.com slash X-Files. Well, it's interesting that you mentioned

because I think we actually have some upcoming case files and one in particular does deal with one of the doorways is deep regret and kind of pain over the past. And I'm curious, you do a lot of ministry, obviously with a lot of young people, too, et cetera. I asked Father Mike Schmidt's this, and he had some mentioning answers, but I'm curious. You mentioned regret, obviously, or missing out on vocation. I know vocation's really top of mind for a lot of young people, but what are some of the biggest, I think, lies that or ways the enemy is attacking young people that you've had to deal with in your ministry and how, and like kind of the lies you push back on with your ministry with young folks? Good question. So I think that

that, you know, the fear of missing out is a general anxiety which afflicts people of all ages. And but I think when it comes to young people, I think there's a kind of corporate despair about, you know, like our political and cultural outlook. So, you know, like people are reporting that the incidents of, well, socialism in Gen Z is, you know, like two and a half times as high as it is among millennials. So I think people feel pretty grim about their prospects, whether that's like socially, economically, or otherwise. And I think there's a kind of fear that my life will not be better than the lives of my parents. And that because of factors over which I exercise no control, I'm just going to be subjected to a daily grind, which won't let up. And so a lot of

of people like are looking for a kind of escape hatch. So if you ask young people like, what do you want to be when you grow up? The plurality of respondents in China will say an astronaut. The plurality of respondents in the United States will say an influencer because I think there's a sense of like it's the escape hatch, but also it's a way of being seen and known and even potentially loved. I think there's a real desire to feel precious in the sight of another. And I think a lot of people find it difficult to form meaningful relationships and friendships. And that's in part because we're all socially stunted from the pandemic. And we find it hard to start a conversation, much less to endure in a friendship, especially against the backdrop of like the mental health crisis.

When a lot of people, you know, this is not to point fingers or attribute blame, it's exceedingly easy to beg off or flake out because you can just say, you know, it's a tough week, burnout, mental health, etc. And so like a kind of accountability or commitment in relationship is evaporating before us. And there's no real way to hold people accountable because it sounds kind of severe. So I think it's it's these lasting connections against, yeah, like in conversation with the fear that our lives might not actually get better. So yeah, discerning a vocation within that setting becomes a little bit intimidating. And my simple word for folks who feel any of those things, is fear not. God will not permit you to be tempted beyond your strength, and he won't let whatever befall without also providing a way through. So you can flourish even in straightened

circumstances because your ultimate freedom, like your kind of most baseline freedom, is the freedom that you assume before your reality. You know, it's like, okay, like God is to be found here. My real life is not elsewhere. This may as well happen. And I think that's a really sustainable freedom if we can find ways of cultivating it. Sorry, I'm talking too long. No, you have the O.P. after your name. So, and actually, so father, and say, so there's discernment that. And then what about for folks maybe a little further down after, you know, the college years, et cetera. And I know, I actually have, you know, done some ministry with folks who are, you know, turning them midpoint crisis and they are just reevaluating. You know,

There's kind of, I heard Matt Frat actually call it the first waft of mortality, you know, that you some of it. And it's just like, oh, because you just don't think about it when you're at a certain age. And then you get to a certain age and you realize, oh, like, okay, life is a precious gift and you never know what's going to happen. And so for those who might be saying, you know, I did miss out. I, man, I just, I never took that shot. I became a Dominican friar. I did not go out for the NBA and did not attempt to become.

center, which would have been a great story. But, you know, for those who are wrestling with that and saying, you know, I'm really worried I missed out, what would you say to them? So my thoughts are like, it's never too late to love the Lord and to love those whom the Lord has entrusted to you. You probably heard about this Harvard study where they took a group of men undergraduates, I think, at Harvard and then a group of younger men, just kind of like kids in the neighborhood in South Boston. or kids in a nearby neighborhood in South Boston. And they did a longitudinal study over the course of the next, whatever, 70 years to see if they could determine what makes for happiness. And their result was like love, basically, makes for happiness.

So lasting relationships, lasting friendships of a meaningful sort, of a purposeful sort, you know, beget in the individual sense of fulfillment, a sense of efficacy, a sense that this is a life worth living. And so I think there are many reasons for which people set relationships or friendships to the side. You know, it's like you got to work hard and accomplish much. And you find yourself various points in life overwhelmed by responsibility of one sort or another. But, you know, while it's great to get things done, it's better still to be with people. And it's never too late to reprioritize or to transition into being with people. and even if you're alone, you know, like even if you're in a circumstance where you just don't have access to a lot of people, you're like new in a city or everyone that you know is moved away or died, you can still be with the Lord. And that's decidedly not nothing. It's a real something. So I'd say like it starts with a habit of daily prayer and sacramental life and, you know, finding ways to engage the Christian community. But it's never too late for that. And maybe there's a button on this issue just to encourage people.

You hear confessions from all sorts of people in different walks of life, et cetera. But for anyone of the things that they're wrestling with anything particularly unique, et cetera, is there any encouragement that you can say, I've heard, you know, I've had people pour out their hearts who have the perfect job and the life is still a mess. And vice versa, I've had people who have no job and no money. And they're feeling like, wow, the Lord's with me, you know, etc. So any, any encouragement to folks on that line? Yeah, I'd say, I mean, things aren't always

what they seem. The point isn't to say, you know, people who seem like they have a great life, actually have a terrible life. So I would say like our happiness isn't comparative or it's not competitive. And I think sometimes, you know, like we look around at other people and we are dismayed because our lives don't look like theirs. And we almost want their lives to be worse so that our lives can feel better by comparison. But I'd say that happiness in Christian community isn't comparative, it's not competitive, right? It's organic because we're members of the mystical body and God assigns to us a place and he gives to us a role. And our happiness comes as the fruit of, you know, like taking that place and playing that role and coming to discover that he has

assigned a place and a role to others next to me or kind of in union with me, and that when they live their vocation and I live my vocation, everyone wins in the sense that, you know, the grace is given to our Lord Jesus Christ, obviously they're given to me because it's through our Lord Jesus Christ that I receive everything, all good and perfect gifts. Or like the grace is given to the blessed mother are given to me because she intercedes for us and she has what a recent church document calls a kind of participatory mediation and that our Lord will use her and the unfolding of his providential designs or his love designs. So I think that like when we can start to push back against a logic of scarcity and enter into a kind of logic of abundance, we see how generous

the Lord is and that his gifts for me, his particular peculiar gifts for me, they're not lacking. they're just they're just these gifts you know and not others yeah i've also heard have you heard this analogy that if everyone was to line up in a circle or like to gather on a circle and everyone had their problems and it was expressed as like a garbage bag uh and you saw everyone else's that most people would not trade they would say i'll hold on to my bag okay i know there's some of the listening is they know please take this bag but uh i do wonder i do wonder because comparison i mean that's something you and I've talked about even just as friends. I was like, that's always an issue I've wrestled with. And I think it's part of growing up in a very competitive environment. And

so much of our narrative and our culture, too, is defined by like, what do you do? And how much of you accomplished and by what age? Right. And if not, you're somehow, and I think it's important to remember that so much of history and God's plan seems to unfold through quiet, ordinary, just normal lives of people just doing the best they can, farm and vegetables and hoping the Huns or the Visigoths don't just come raid their village that day, right? Nice. Yeah, those are different kinds of raiders who lived at different times. That's why I brought them up.

I wanted because it happens, though, it's not just one period of life. You have to look out for raiding parties, right? That's true. No, that's a great point. I think often of the Haurulians, whose war chief Oda Vaser was the one to sack Rome somewhat definitively in 476, not to be. confused with a Lerick, who I think was a Visigoth, if not an Ostrogoth. He was a goth of some sort. Yeah, I think he sacked Roman like 410, but that wasn't as definitive as sacking.

Yeah, but people just out there sacking cities. You got to watch out for them. Life was hard. Life was hard. Yeah, life was, I mean, life's hard now, but I just think it would be so scary to be in a town in the mid-age, in the middle ages, and you're just like, I want food, and I need to know how to get baptized because any day now or like what's the process to be saved because basically any day the gates could open and yikes, right?

Yeah, could you imagine just like it's the 9th century and you live in Essex and you just don't know when but you're pretty certain that the Vikings are just going to show up on your shores and they're going to all be hopped up on black henbane or psychedelic mushrooms

You know, just like a bunch of madmen looking to lay waste everything in their, that's terrifying prospect. Oh, yeah. Well, the other thing I think about, too, is just how lucky you were. Like, if you had a good leader, like, actually, we celebrated recently, or we had an episode, and we commemorated Louis the Ninth feast day. And what a wise and prudent leader wrote his son this beautiful note. And you think, what a gifted is when you have a good leader, because there's a lot of messed up

monarchs. And if you just happen to live in the time of one, it's like, you know, we're going to go to war, because that guy looked at my girlfriend wrong. And there you went. Off you went, right? Crazy, crazy, man. Wait, was that a Casey and Jojo quote right there? Oh, don't worry. I have more Casey and Jojo coming for you. So baby, baby, baby, baby, baby, baby, baby, baby, baby, baby. All right, Father Pine, next question on spiritual warfare. One, we deal with quite a bit. And actually, a great segue into also a new tomb of knowledge that you have authored. This is on unforgiveness. And so a listener wrote in, I'm paraphrasing, and they wrote a long, beautiful email.

But essentially, their spouse left them for someone else. And they are having a terrible time forgiving them. An injustice was done to them. And yet they are harboring, by their own admission, extreme unforgiveness. And their mind is racing with lots of angry thoughts. And they are not able to get past it. what can we acknowledge? What can we offer as encouragement? And then maybe some thoughts on how bad things happen and there's a justice. And what's the proper response of a Christian in a case

like this, knowing that calling fire from heaven is not on the table? Well, it was for a couple of the apostles, or at least they gave it a go. And the other guys are like, Lord, we have two swords. And he's like, it's enough. So it seems like just vindicated. So it seems like just vindicated. is on the minds of many. So the first thing I would say is, like, you have permission to feel what you feel in the sense that, you know, you entered the bond of marriage or the sacrament of marriage, and then, you know, your spouse stepped out of that relationship, and that's an injustice. I mean, maybe that's an overly neat way of formulating the situation, but you oughtn't break a promise. You know, you oughtn't break a vow.

it's contrary to just to do so, and you're left in the lurch. And so you feel angry, because anger is just what happens when you suffer a slight, when you suffer an injustice, which calls out for a kind of vindication or a setting to rights. So you're going to feel that in your guts, and you're going to feel that in your heart, and it's just going to take time to feel that through. so I'd say then maybe the most helpful thing is to say like there are physical emotional and psychological dimensions to that hurt to that anger to that sorrow and those don't really have a moral quality except insofar as you adopt a spiritual stance except insofar as you begin to act out of them to choose in light of them and I'd say spiritually that's

really where you're responsible for forgiving. And we say a lot of complicated things about forgiveness, but I think forgiveness is effectively saying, I put pardon where there is hurt. I put love where there's hatred. I put enmity, excuse me, I put peace where there is enmity, you know, whatever words you want to use. But acknowledge what you're going through and then acknowledge what need be put there. and then there comes with that a recognition of our of our spiritual poverty so we're not going to be able to forgive with our own limited resources we need to rely on god's unlimited resources to really heal us and grow us such that we can offer that forgiveness constantly perpetually so i'd say just say lord jesus christ i ask your grace to forgive i put your love where there is hatred i put your pardon where there is hurt I put your peace where there is enmity. And I'd say just continue to do that for as long as it takes. And it might take your whole life, you know, because physically, emotionally, psychologically,

that hurt will continue to smart and they'll continue to like well up within, you know, like feelings of resentment, unforgiveness, whatever. And it's in light of those things that you recall the need to forgive, to kind of ratify your choice to forgive. But yeah, the first thing is you have permission. Two, is you can't forgive by your own resources. Three, you can forgive by God's resources. Four, you're probably going to have to choose to forgive for a while because the physical, emotional, psychological things over which you have very limited control

are going to continue to press against that spiritual posture. But you need to continue to reaffirm the posture that the Lord would have you assume. Yeah, I don't know. What do you think? Well, having never been married or thankfully ever gone through this, and I just, it's an awful, awful thing. We do talk about unforgiveness a lot on the show, and it is a doorway, no, matter how justified the anger and the response is and the injustice. It's like God still, I actually really love that about Christianity too, that it's like horrible things happen to good people.

And God is like, yeah, that's, you know, that would really, that sucks. And it's awful, but it doesn't take away the fact that we are obligated to forgive. not forget, right? And not put ourselves in, you know, danger to that. But it's actually, I had a friend years ago that this actually, this very thing happened to. And it was really beautiful to see the redemptive story. And this person just gave it to God. They were just, and actually what they did is they only told a select few. They kept it in close with a spiritual community, like very close. And, but they brought, and actually took, it took years. But I can say they're doing so well now and like truly free. And it was, it was really cool to see because it was the

worst thing that could ever happen. And I was just so inspired by, I mean, there were days when they were really honest. And I'd say, you have to call someone because there were days when it was like, I'm, I'm not doing hot today. Like, it's really bothering me. And yet, but routinely, which is, and this person would also just say, hey, I believe in the sovereignty of God and I trust God. and I know that he will make all things new eventually, whether that's now or time of heaven, and their life today is like, honestly, I want to say better than it was before because it's different, right? And it doesn't remove the injustice that was done. But it's so cool to see the Lord is a redeemer.

And so for anyone of this has happened to, I can say, I've seen it. I've seen the Lord redeem the worst situations. But it was the cooperation of this person and their willingness to just routinely and it took and it took a decade. It took a decade. But it's amazing now and they're happier. They're happier and more content and more mature in the Lord. And that's the other thing too that I appreciate is I think a lot of us who've gone through difficult, and we all have good difficult things. But I think if we take our most difficult thing that's happened to us, it can be like kind of the Jacobian limp. It can be a really cool reminder of just what God can do

if we like let it. So I've got, you know, hurts in my life that I go, I look, back on and doesn't they're not gone but I almost view it as a gift that they're not gone like I remember and the the tenderness there like any good kind of pain is a reminder of like hey like don't you know remember how the Lord like healed you through this it's like some a scar you talking about that scar from when I beat you in one-on-one basketball if we had ever played it would have been great I would love to play you in one-on-one basketball so a little challenge that'll be for the Paywall, Vault members, if you would like to see Father Pine and Ryan square off under the boards for an ecumenical showdown, please, right into the show.

It's interesting. I think that I haven't played organized basketball since I was in maybe seventh grade. It may also have been eighth grade, unless you count intermurals in college where I did not excel. But all of the basketball that I played in the last 15 years has been against Dominican friars. And we do well reading the Summa Theology. We do less well with like jump shots and chase down blocks. It's just not our jam.

Remember, too. You'd be playing against someone who's grown up in a Protestant tradition with our baptismals. They're full dunking. So I have a lot more experienced dunking than you do. Oh, nice. Okay. Yeah, that was low-hanging fruit, but I'm glad you grabbed it, plucked it. Well, we have to play a low-hanging fruit for you, giving your vertical.

Thank you. It means a lot. Oh, ma'am. All right. let's go to another question here. Interesting. So we're getting close to October, my second favorite month of the year after August. And yeah, I love October.

It's just, it's still warm here, but there's just the first, like the, at least in Southern California, October is still warm. Like, it's the benefits of summer. But in the evenings, things will cool down a little bit. Have you always said the word warm that way? Warm? Warm? Yes. Have you always?

I don't know. Is that a regionalism? I don't know. Perhaps. I've been looking for a regionalism. Yeah, warm. Warm. Warm.

Yeah. People are nice. People where I'm from say, parish. Instead of like parish, they got like that long A. But you've got it in a novel form. Keep going, though. You love October. I do love October.

And speaking of October, we have a question from another vault member. It says, I have a question regarding All Saints Day. celebration. My father, three boys, ages 7, 4, and 1, and we live in Edinburgh. Shout out to Edinburgh. Last year, my wife and I began organizing an All Saints party in St. Columbia's Parish Hall with activities for children, food, music, and opportunities to learn about the lives of the Saints. Wonderful way to bring families together and share the beauty of our faith. This year, All Saints Day falls on a Sunday, but we sold the celebration on the Saturday so more people can attend. We're hoping to involve Catholics and non-Catholics, especially since Halloween is

celebrated on a larger scale in Scotland, while All Saints Day often received no attention. My question, is it appropriate for us to hold the All Saints celebration on Saturday, which is Halloween, October 31st? Our hope is that we'll help people encounter the joy and inspiration of the saints. So, yeah, Father, any thoughts on this? I do. So in the liturgical calendar, when All Saints Day falls on a Sunday, it trumps the Sunday liturgy. So we still celebrate All Saints Day on the 1st of November, even if the 1st of November is a Sunday. And since it's a solemnity, liturgically speaking, we begin to celebrate it the night before. So if folks are familiar with the liturgy of the hours, you know that the day begins with

morning prayer and ends with night prayer. And in between, we say daytime prayer and then evening prayer, and at a certain juncture we'll also add in the office of readings. Well, a solemnity begins with evening prayer of the day before. So basically, all I'm trying to say is that liturgically speaking, Halloween night is already All Saints Day, at least as far as the liturgy reckons. So you're good to go, my friend. Okay. Party on, Wayne. All right. So if you find yourself in Scotland, that actually would be a really interesting place for like a Harvest Festival and All Saints Day celebration, just like the alleys and just the like the moody eerieness of Edinburgh. That would be a cool.

Have you ever been to Edinburgh? I have. I was there a couple years ago. It's fantastic. Did you like it? I loved it. I mean, that's castle is gorgeous. Food was fantastic.

The accents, fantastic. I just, I loved it. We went to the Isle of Sky, drove further north. I loved Scotland. Yeah, it was great. Hiked the old man of store. Did you, is that like the big rocky bluff over the town? in uh oh in in sky or not no in no in edinburgh the big castle is just that that's that's if i was shown

aisle of skies way far north you're answering all of my questions even before i formulate them i was once in edinburgh i spent a day there and then i was in st andrews and i spent a day there those are the two places that i visited in scotland that is the entirety of my list but while it was in edinburgh i saw the big the big castle and i also saw like a big rocky outcropping, I don't know if you'd call it a mountain, over, kind of like looming over the town. And it seemed like people were walking up there, or at least I was told that people were walking up. So I was asking you about that, but I'll look further afield, namely to the Isle of Sky, if I intend to gather further details about your hiking exploits.

I will send you. The Isle of Sky is fantastic. It is fantastic. All right, so, Father, we're talking about, given the question that was asked from the listener about their spouse and that sad situation they find themselves in. Perhaps you could give us some amusing, because I know you have a book coming out or a book on this as far as, actually is your book coming out on justice already, or is it? It's out, my friend. It's been out for like three or four months.

Okay, let me rephrase that then. Now, Father, you have a book on justice, which we will link to in the show notes here. But do you have any thoughts on, I mean, I often think about Jesus turning the other cheek. and part of warfare, and especially we talk about spiritual warfare on the show, is knowing when to engage. And this turn the other cheek statement from Christ has always been a source of much debate in my community and wondering what is the proper response, because obviously Christians were called to forgive.

But also, I don't think any of us would stand idly by. And I reference, you know, Liam Neeson, for example, when his daughter is taken in the film. I recognize this is a fictitious thing, but it actually does present an interesting philosophical question of what is the appropriate response for towards injustice? And I'm curious, what is the Catholic position, you know, thinking through some of these scenarios that people will find themselves in? Because obviously the Lord says vengeance is mine, say it the Lord. But obviously we have a legal system and justice, which can be, I imagine, a charitable act to help, you know, force people to not commit crimes and to help us all live more flourishing society together. Sure. So justice,

ensures that we treat people well, specifically that we give them what they are due. So it puts kind of reasonable order into our relationships and interactions. And there is a recognition, though, that while it is good to maintain the order of justice or rectify the order of justice when it has been disturbed, that the goal of human life goes beyond justice. Namely, we ought to cultivate not just justice, but also charity. So justice is a habit of the will. Charity is also a habit of the will. But whereas justice treats the other as other, charity treats the other as friend, as one like me, as one with whom I am called to union in the Lord Jesus Christ. So I take it as an encouragement, not so much to give up on the order of justice, but to subordinate the order of justice to the order of charity. So there's no real good

in suffering, just simply so called. But there is a good in suffering for our Lord Jesus Christ, who himself submitted to the passion and death, which secured for us our salvation. So I think that that encouragement opens to us the possibility of uniting our sufferings to Christ and not seeking a this-worldly vindication, which might, in some way, shape, or form, and we don't have to get into all the details of this, cause us to kind of look away from the order of justice, which has pride of place. So perhaps you've experienced people in the world who are so animated about securing justice

that they never think to secure charity. And so I think that the encouragement kind of lies in that line. But I don't know, you can feel free to disagree. What do you think? I mean, I don't know. I've always wrestled. If vengeance is mine, it's like there's, this kind of goes down to it's like,

how much do we want to trust God? in one sense because I just, you know, and I think he does respond. I mean, there's people who are like, I have friends who just all they do is pray and ask God like to do things and just like, the Spirit lead me. And I'd say, I don't think that's required.

Like he's, you could go do stuff, you know? Like you go live your life and like, but I also feel that God perhaps does, like, oh, I love, assuming it's not out of like fear or apathy, but just like, if someone like just loves the Lord and wants to consult that much, then someone asking, God to intervene more in their life is probably going to have him show up in that way more.

And vice versa. So with justice, it's like, yeah, if you want to be the person who's radically like, hey, I'm going to trust God to take care of all my battles, right? That could be a thing. On the other hand, I do see a world where it's like, you know, God establishes rulers. And obviously we see in throughout scripture, we see like an ordered, we see punishment of wickedness. We see, you know, protocols for dealing with. I mean, at least the concept of protocols of dealings with injustice.

So that can't be like unallowed in societies, right? So I don't know if that makes sense, but that's, I mean, I can see either one. I think the basic idea is like our life together has an integrity and God's given us what we need with prudence, justice, fortitude, temperance, to regulate ourselves and then to regulate our interactions and relationships among, you know, like among each other. but the fact is that we're not just called to live a good human life or called to live a divine life. So there's always going to be a certain limitation if we insist exclusively on human life because there's an openness in human hearts to this sharing in, this participating in the divine life. And if we think exclusively or overanxiously or jealously about securing the goods of human life, it can sometimes pose an obstacle to experiencing the goods of divine life. So I think, like our Lord Jesus

Christ, he doesn't secure for himself this worldly vindication. And in doing so, he secures for us otherworldly, you know, salvation. And so maybe that sounds paradoxical. But I think the basic idea is that we don't want to end up being justice monsters. Because if you insist too much on one limited part, then you can end up mistaking the part for the whole. So you need to recognize the goodness of the part in its place, in its context, lest you kind of get the whole thing wrong. So, Father, when Jesus has turned the other cheek, what does the Catholic tradition teach that he's saying, and do you agree with that? Like, what do you think he means with that phrase? I think he means you're never going to have perfect justice, but you can cultivate.

cultivate perfect charity. So Christian isn't called to be a victim or a doormat, but the Christian isn't called to right every this worldly wrong. The Christian is called to cultivate otherworldly friendship. And that's going to send him back to his experience so that he can look out for the lost, the last, the least, you know, the widow and orphan especially. But now with the expectation that he's ever going to make this world right. This world's always going to be a good bit wrong. But the only chance that it stands is by orienting its gaze to the next world. That's as succinct as I can do.

No, it's good because I think a lot of people do think, oh, it's saying that somehow Christians are supposed to be a doormat or something. But in reality, it's... But would you say, Father, too, that... Do you agree that our society in general does not do a good job? of forgiveness or admit it's a Western thing, but do you think that, uh, what are your thoughts on that? I think we definitely struggle to forgive and the whole concept of like keeping receipts, um, this idea that everything that you've ever done in public life could and perhaps will be held

against you as somewhat discomforting. Um, that being said, I don't even think we have an especially good accountability culture. Um, you don't, you don't have to acknowledge that you've done something wrong anymore you can just keep on keeping on it's like a strange honor culture that we've got going where you can't really admit wrongdoing something fascinating about pop Leo's most recent encyclical magnifica humanitas as that he acknowledges wrongdoing on the part of the church especially as a concern slavery with the understanding that that actually increases the moral authority of the catholic church rather than decreasing it um so yeah we've got some problems but you know hopefully a few righteous men will keep the judgment

at bay. Tom Cruise and Jack Nicholson star in A Few Righteous Men. That would be such an epic movie. Father, we have a question that has come in from an Anglican, speaking of our UK friends. So Father, here's the question that says,

I'm an Anglican and have to admit, I haven't always understood the Catholic position on grace relative to the Protestant position. Could you simplify it for us? sure um so first thought is um there's been a joint declaration of the catholic church and the comparable lutheran body you know like 30 years ago on justification and so i think there's there's a lot

more made of difference than need be made of difference also the protestant tradition is not united on the nature of grace so you know you got lutheran and reformed and all manner of mainline Protestants who are in some way, shape, or form indebted to those tradition. And then, you know, like the Anglican, Communion has its own distinct kind of inquiry into this particular theme. Basic understanding, Catholic understanding of grace is that it's a created share in the life of God. So what it does is it's like a habit of our whole being that makes it such that we are healed and grown so as to enter into relationship with God. And so what grace does is it makes our nature capable of living at God's level. So God bases a kind of

friendship on his own beatitude. He wills our good and he gives us the wherewithal to will his good. And so when we talk about grace, we're talking about an un, excuse me, a created share in the life of God or a kind of participation in the life of God, thinking there of the psalmist who says, you are all of you gods, sons in the most high, or you're made partakers of the divine nature. But the Catholic teaching tends to emphasize the transformative effects of grace, namely that it really does heal us and grow us. Whereas most Protestant understandings of grace tend not to emphasize that dimension. They may even deny that dimension, whether in affirming that we're totally depraved or in suggesting that grace is kind of like the cloak thrown over our shoulders or like the

snow gathered on our dunghill, as it were. So it's more a matter of imputation or God rendering a kind of forensic judgment as to our righteousness in light of his son's sacrifice, rather than God giving us a share in his very life. That might be a caricature depending upon the tradition, but I think that's the main difference. Yeah, because I've heard it explains, and I, again, obviously correct me if I'm wrong here, but one, the thing, the thing that all Christians, for the most part, accept and believe in, is that everyone is given this gift, and there's nothing you could do to merit it or earn it. And it is this, call it initial offering, if you will, like if God, God revealing himself and if you accept

Jesus Christ as your Savior, which you don't have to, there's no, like, fee, obviously, there's no sign up. It just, it's a free gift that God's like, I want you to be with me. And so this is the sacrifice of my son. And this is a gift to everyone that he, for some reason, reveals in different ways and parts and convicts people in different manners. And then is it from that moment, and I don't know if this is actually a point of discrepancy, but there's a supernatural transformation of the heart that either begins or starts with that acceptance of Christ. And then is it through that now changed heart that the process of justification and sanctification begins? And then it is, so it's a gift freely given that turns you into someone who does them.

things that now turn you into the person that will dwell with Christ forever. Is that the way? Am I summarizing that accurate? Basically, yeah, we talk about the gift is justification, the ongoing process, the sanctification. That's the typical Catholic formulation. So justification is given really without us. We have to consent to it or we have to not resist it. But then the sanctification, that does involve us, some measure of cooperation.

That's the basic difference between the two. Okay. All right. Well, there you go. A grace, grace, amazing grace. How sweet it sounds. So, Father, I have a listener who asks about Marian apparitions and what evidence there is for them. I don't know if we're going to begin to dive into that at this juncture. But, Father, we have a listener who's very curious about Marian apparitions being a new Catholic. What would you say to them as far as where to begin that journey and do you think there is compelling evidence for them? I do think there is compelling evidence for them. I'd say this. We make a differentiation. between public revelation, which ends with the death of the last apostle, and private revelation, which crops up here and there throughout the centuries in the years since. So Marian apparitions would pertain to private revelation. So our salvation doesn't hinge on Marian apparitions and the way that it hinges upon the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. So I'd say assigned to it the place that it ought be assigned. And then there is good evidence, though, that our lady has appeared to people throughout

the ages, especially over the course of like the last 150 years. It seems like she's amped things up. And my recommendation, again, to recommend somebody off your channel, my bad, is I did a conversation with Matt Fred, which I think has some title like, you know, Father Pine gives me spiritual direction for three hours. And like the last 35 minutes of it is about marrying apparitions. So just search, Pines with Aquinas, Pine is Pine, Marion Apparitions. That's my initial take. but there are people on the internet who speak much more excellently and eloquently about marrying apparitions. So you can profit, for instance, from the talks of Father Leon Pereira. He'd be a good one to consult or Father Chris Alar.

Okay. Father Pine, would you say spiritual warfare comes in the form of attack on internet? Is that a thing? I think that's certainly a thing. So, like, the Internet is designed to command your attention and to populate your imagination and to drain your wallet. So if you're not sure of what's being sold on the internet, you're being sold or you're being commodified. So I think, like, you know, those who are responsible for curating our experience of this series of tubes and wires have their own design. Sometimes they're

beneficent designs. Sometimes they aren't nefarious designs. But given that, like, a third of the internet is pornography, I think we can safely assume that many designs deployed on the internet are nefarious. And so you have to be super vigilant because it is a place in which you need to go, as St. Paul instructs us in Ephesians 6, kind of clad in the armor of gospel life. And if we just wander around on the internet thinking like, ah ha ha ha ha ha, I hope something fun happens. We're going to get eaten alive. So, yeah, that's a commercial for, we just lost Cox and Spectrum Wi-Fi as our sponsor. So thank you. Thank you, Father Pine for that. Also, he just named-dropped the name of a new Disney movie, The prequel to Maleficent, so we'll get on that later. Before things went wrong. That's right, before things went wrong. So we are doing a series on trying to expose the lies of the enemy and we're talking to great friends of the show like Father Gregory Pine to help us expose some of those lies. And so I'm trying to filter some of the questions that come in around this topic. And so Father Pine, here's a question on the sin of envy. We have a listener who writes in and says that they are in the same creative field as another individual.

This individual does not go to church, the person they're referring to, and their career is advancing quite rapidly, whereas the other person is living a sacramental life as best they can, doing the best they can, and finding no success. This says they're both the writers. And one is, and the questioner is saying they know the fallacy of their thinking that's, you, you know, that going to church guarantees success in a vocation. But nonetheless, they are dealing with the trap of envy. what wisdom do you have for them?

My first thought is you got to know what's good, what's better, and what's best. So have a clear sense of the hierarchy of goods. So that way your thoughts, words, and actions are patterned on that hierarchy of goods. So sometimes we say, like, I'm here for the glory of God and the salvation of souls, but what I'm actually here for is worldly success, monetary gain, influence, and popularity. So I think it's good just to kind of go in knowing or, you know, establishing what's good, what's better, what's best. And then also the sin of envy is a sin of sadness. So it's a sadness that another has profited.

And in our estimation, we have suffered. But you go in there with the kind of logic of scarcity in the sense that there's only so much goodness to go around. There's only so much honor and glory to go around. And if somebody has more, that means necessarily that I have less. Whereas the gospel logic is a logic of abundance, because, in the mystical body, we recognized, and I already talked about this a little point, excuse me, I had already talked about this a little bit in the show. You profit from all the graces given to all the other persons in the mystical body. Sure, they're apportioned to this person or that person,

but nevertheless, we can still enjoy something of the benefit, something of the delight that comes with those graces. So I think learning how to affirm people, how to celebrate their successes, how to collaborate with them, even if we don't stand to benefit in the short term, all those are good practices to put in place, good kind of dispositions to bring to the table. Amen. I wouldn't know. I've never actually dealt with envy. So this is cool. Thank you for, thank you for sharing that with me. Thank you for this theoretical inquiry. Yeah, thank you for this like inquiry asking for a friend. All right, Father, this also is from another friend. Father Pine, I am feeling lonely. I once held a job at an organization that conferred upon me significant influence. and now that I've moved out of that job, I'm finding the phone is ringing off the hook a lot less,

and I'm feeling left out of a lot of things. I'm tempted to dive back in to that line of work, to earn that success again, just to have those connections, but I know that is not a healthy attitude. What advice do you have for me? Yeah, I think it just kind of comes down to knowing your identity and knowing your mission in the Lord and thinking, okay, what am I here for? What do I feel like the Lord has given me by way of gifts and how? How can I use those gifts for the upbuilding of the kingdom?

And sometimes that means obscurity or it means hiddenness or it always means humility. But then thinking, all right, have I retreated from that because it's difficult or have I retreated from that because I thought it was actually noxious like it was poisonous? If the latter, then stay away. But if the former, then how can I find present ways of challenging myself, of growing my capacity of contributing to, yeah, the lives of others? because I think like we're all meant to be fulfilled, not necessarily in this life, but in the next life. Nevertheless, we get foretaste of it. We get indications of how the Lord wants to work within it. And so I think that, yeah, sometimes we just don't want to deal with the complexity of the internet because people leave negative comments about, you know, divvets on your forehead or the dad jokes that you make or whatever else it is.

But is that opposition sufficient to get us running in the opposite direction or ought not be? Because we're always going to encounter opposition. So I think having a sense of your identity and your mission gives you the certainty, the confidence that I'm made for this work and this is good. So you should have some sense of efficacy, but mindful of the fact that here on Earth will always suffer trials. Well, speaking of comments, actually, I found one this morning. I actually don't really read the comments that often, but I try to every now and then just check in. like, hey, what are the fans saying? Are they happy with what we're doing, et cetera? I found a, do you want me to read you, speaking of dad jokes, do you want me to read you a spicy one that I found literally this morning?

Yes. Okay. For any young listeners, please tune away. Although, if you have young listeners listening to the show, yeah, that's on you. This hypocritical fool and that unfunny, worthless, self-important jackass, Ryan, have betrayed the audience they initially targeted. And in his interview on Pines of Aquinas, Father Martin says he did. didn't want to create a series of lectures, and here they are lecturing us. Dang.

That's savage. This is not the word of the Lord. But then below it was Ryan's dad jokes are the best. Oh, the good old Ryan. I still love his dad jokes, even though they cause the hardest of eye rolls. So you've got to take the good with the bad. So thank you, everyone, for writing into the show. But that's just an example.

I know you've honestly, and maybe to hit a personal note, you've had to deal with some comments, too, right? I have, I originally I didn't really look at comments too terribly much just for reasons of fragility. I just found myself thrown for a loop by said comments. I've kind of transitioned to a point where we have folks who work for the Apostolates to which I contribute who read the comments and give me kind of greatest hits or things to improve upon or just helpful production notes. I think it's hard with comments to determine what's real and what's fake. Obviously, you know, real people, maybe sometimes there are bots. But like the top 5% is usually everything you do is great.

The bottom 5% is everything you do is bad. The middle 90%, you can learn something from that, but it takes discernment. And I think especially when it comes to pastoral care, I don't want to hurt people. So I want to make sure that the things that I say are true and that based in the truth, they're communicated with love and help people to grow in their relationship with the Lord. But I'm also conscious of the fact that some of the things that I say aren't as well formulated as they could be or can be easily misinterpreted. And it's that type of thing which scares me.

So yeah, you have to commend everything you do to the Lord and ask him to make up for what's lacking and guide people in their reception of it with the hope that it works or it saves. All right. I know we've got to get you out of here. So we got the last question in our farewell game. This is from a vault member.

Thank you so much for your support. I'm going to paraphrase their question just in the interest of time. This listener asked Father Pine, I am struggling in a very toxic work environment and I don't want to switch jobs constantly and get a red flag on my CV, but I'm having trouble toughing it out. There's a lot of internal battles between leaders. What can I do? Any advice for me? Yeah, I'd say you've got two buckets. Things you can change and things you can't change and be really,

really clear on what you can't change and then just turn that over to the Lord, think about the serenity prayer. You know, the courage to confront the things that I ought to confront and the kind of whatever, wisdom to differentiate between whatever. I don't remember actually how that prayer goes. I remember there's something about wisdom and courage and serenity and acceptance and blah, blah, blah. Is this the one, give you the grace to accept the things I cannot change that one?

Yes. Yeah, exactly. You know it. And then when it comes to the things that you can change, you can create a microenvironment that's non-toxic, and people will start to recognize that, and then they will start to seek that. You know, it's never going to transform the workplace,

holy and entirely. It's a present evil age in which we live, and there's always going to be that opposition. But I do think that your baptismal graces in the workplace can be fruitful, not just for yourself, but for others, and it's worth holding out hope. If you make a determination of that you just simply can't flourish in this environment, then sometimes the CV needs to take a hit. Hey, it happens. Amen. You know, CV, your spiritual CV is more important. Is that right, Father? I think so. Yeah. Okay. Well, I know we got to leave. We got to say sweet farewells here, but Father, I'd be remiss if I didn't let you leave without playing our farewell game called three Antonys. I'm giving you three quotes, St. Anthony Appiah, Anthony Hopkins, or Mark Antony. Not quite an Anthony, but still close enough, right? Can you tell me who said what? Okay. Yes.

All right. Today is the tomorrow you were so concerned about yesterday. Mark Antony. That was Anthony Hopkins. Dang. Dang it. Okay. I have lost all. accept what I have given away. Mark Antony. Great. And to be totally fair to our historian sleuths, that is not, we can't directly attribute that. It is attributed, but we can't say for certain so before the comments blow up. Although I would love to get comments about your Mark Anthony's citation was off.

That would be a nice brief. And then by process of elimination, actions speak louder than words. Let your words teach and your actions speak. St. Anthony Apedo, I thought I'm tempted to say Anthony Hopkins just to show that I can't count. I was going to go with Hello, Clarice, but I feel like you would have known what that quote is. Anyways, Father Pine, thank you so much for joining the show. I know it is better that you should go, but we appreciate you, and we're so excited for all the tomes of knowledge as you publish. We will link to that in the book.

Any farewell lyrics or 90s rap that we need to be made privy to as you depart? I'd just say people should know that they should flow like a harpoon and cut like a razor blade. All right. This is, was that, was that the venerable, uh, vanilla ice? That was indeed. Okay. All right. Yeah.

All right, folks, you've been listening to the Exorcist Files of Father Gregory Pine and Ryan Bethay. And tune into our series, The Born Again Identity. If you're one of the three people who enjoyed the banter here, please do check out our series, The Born Again Identity. And contrary to what Father Pines said in one of the ads, Snoop Dog is in no way affiliated with that show and will not be making any of it. appearances, okay?

Rats. Next season. So, stay demon free, y'all.