The Exorcist Files - The Strangest Thing To Happen In The Exorcism Room- Father Martins Breaks down "Dynasty of Death"

Episode Date: April 15, 2026

The first case file of Season 2, "Dynasty of Death", is intense and theologically complex. From the appearance of a strange visitor in the exorcism room to the breaking of a generational curse, this case reminds us that God can show up in the strangest of ways and that we should trust him in all circumstances. Subscribe to the Vault HereCheck out the Ryan Bethea Show hereMars Men- Head to MenGoToMars.com and get 50% Off AND 3 Free Gifts when you checkout.Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made! Go to https://trymiracle.com/EXFILES and use the code EXFILES to claim your FREE 3 PIECE TOWEL SET and SAVE over 40% OFF.”Runewood Rosaries- Get 15% off your order when you use our promo code EXFILES at Runewoodrosary.com. Thank you to our sponsors!See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hey friends, Father Martins here. Before we begin the show, I want to say thank you. We've been doing the show for three years now, and it has been a true privilege and joy. I'm continually amazed at what God is doing through this work. Every week, we receive messages from listeners who have come to Christ, return to faith, or found freedom through the stories and teachings we share. Just last week, someone wrote to tell us he went back to confession after decades of being away. That's the kind of grace we're witnessing.

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All joking aside, however, your support allows us to continue this mission and reach more people with the gospel. You can join today at exorcistfiles.tv or simply click the link in the show show notes. Blessings to you all. Welcome back to the Exorcist Files here with our father, who are not in heaven, but on camera. Today we're going back to back to the dynasty of death. One of the most controversial cases we've had on the show. Father Martins is here to walk us through this deep dive

into this most disturbing of cases, but Father, I do have to ask before we start this deep dive. Our Exorcism cases sort of akin to children? Do you sort of love them all, like some more than others? And are some of them, frankly, just a little out there. And there's really nothing you can do about it. Wow. What a weird way of putting it. They are certainly not my children. They're all disturbing in their own way because what the enemy has done is pounced on somebody. He's bullied somebody. Some are memorable because, you know, for example, you're able to catch a glimpse of the profound suffering of the victim. And that touches you emotionally. Others, you're able to see the suffering, part of that everlasting suffering that the demon is in. And the sheer irrationality of his enterprise, because at the end of the day, evil is a mystery.

and there is no explanation for it. There's no rational explanation for it. So every demon, if you will, is a drug addict who is constantly pursuing the high that brings him the pain for which he seeks relief by seeking his high, which brings him more pain.

And so they're just, you know, you can, you can, try to get to the bottom of it, but there just isn't an explanation for it. So each exorcism case is memorable, but they're memorable for different reasons. Yeah. And Father, you mentioned a little bit before we started recording that something that always people should keep in mind about this show is that we do profile many of the successes. But the reality is that this is such a serious ministry and that I think you've shared on the show

that it's somewhere hovering around half to be charitable, do not ultimately find liberation. Yep, my own kind of informal statistics from my experience, and that of my colleagues, is 60% of the people who are bona fide afflicted, bona fide, afflicted, do not get liberated because they don't hate the affliction enough. They don't hate the devil enough, or don't love Christ enough, to do the work to get free. They want to be free of the pain, free of the cost of having the devil in their lives, but they don't want to undergo the work of undergoing that severance between the devil or his gifts that he's given. So they'll want to keep the gifts, the occult gift, the the pleasures that he gives, the pleasures that sin give, but it brings with it a cost.

And that they don't want, but they would rather keep the pleasures that the devil has brought them. And of course, that whole enterprise is futile. You either belong to the devil or you belong to Christ, and there's no middle ground. There really isn't a middle ground. This is why Christ said in the gospel, he was not with me, is against me. So, and most people, most victims, bona fide victims, are against Christ. Or at least, they're too much with the devil. That's always true with us humans, right?

Sometimes we end up seeking the gifts more than the giver. Right, father? Yeah, that's right. Absolutely. Well, as a fair warning, this episode that we talk about does cover very serious topic, in particular mental health and suicidal thoughts. So a disclaimer warning here and trigger warning. If this is something that is triggering or worrisome to you, please do consider skipping ahead or skipping this episode in its entirety.

And also, this episode contains spoiler alerts. So please, if you have not heard Dynasty of Death from, gosh, I think 18 months ago now, maybe even longer, parts one and two, please go back and listen because there will be some spoilers. And it is radical episode. It is wild. Now, Father, this episode has some. it does ruffle theological feathers. I remember even when we, when you first told us about this episode, and I thought this is just when I thought father's stories couldn't blow my mind any further. It comes in with this one. So let's start with the obvious thing that is sort of theologically

offensive to a lot of folks who've written in about this episode. This episode involves someone being afflicted multiple generations later, despite them being in no state of sin, baptized Christian, recently confessed up and they start experiencing extreme demonization because of something their ancestor, multiple generations in the past, decided to do. So what is it about generational curses, Father, that we find so difficult to wrap our head around? And perhaps you could speak to just to the reality of them and what the church teaches on them. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, for many generational curses, the very concept is a scandal and is not believable. And they'll argue on theological grounds, which is simply false. At the heart of our faith, the reason why we needed the liberation

of the liberation of Christ is because of a generational curse. The fall of Adam and Eve is something to which we are all subject. We're born with original sin, which would have, you know, were it not for the intervention of Christ, which would have eternal ramifications. So you can argue that it's not fair. You can argue that, but it doesn't change the reality, period. God created the universe with a moral dimension, and he created us as interconnected beings with one another, and our ancestors have, their decisions and their choices can have and do have effects within our lives. and our first parents, Adam and Eve, at the very moment we were created, their choice to disobey God was immediately felt by us, and that was deposited within us by them.

I mean, they didn't actively do it, but the legal ramifications of their choice met us. So, you know, enter Christ. And, you know, for that matter, Christ's grace was. in our lives does affect the people after, the generations after us. And, you know, Deuteronomy says that the sins of the wicked, the Lord will visit to the third and fourth generation. But his blessings, he will visit to the thousandth generation. So we love that latter part, but the prior part that the sins of the parents will be visited,

that that exists as well. Yeah. And Father, I found it very interesting. I've been to a few Catholic conferences as the visiting Protestant just, you know, the to meet the quota. And I've had priests tell me, oh, I just don't understand how this could be a thing. Aquinas argued against it. And everyone agrees on original sin. But what I find interesting is that I, from the exorcists, from the priests I've discussed this with, who are engaged in active exorcism ministry, they all say, oh, yeah, of course. And they mainly see it manifest in the form of Freemasonry

and in some extreme cases, the one of the curse of Gavin Dunbar, as we had shared on the show earlier. But has that been your experience with your colleagues that a majority of them, if you will, have dealt with cases where the person doesn't bear the moral guilt of what happened, but they are bearing the consequences of an ancestral transgression? Absolutely. Yep, for sure. The moral guilt, they don't bear. Like, in other words, I'm not responsible for my father's sin. And Aquinas argues that. And in doing so, he's just repeating the words of Christ, who says a man will answer for his own sin. How? However, the effects of the sin, which we can call the curse, the curse aspect of it, those linger. They do linger. And like I said, the fall of Adam and Eve, that's Exhibit A. And, you know, we have other, you know, look, the sin of David when he slept with Bathsheba. And then to cover that sin, he ordered the murder, the de facto murder of her husband.

the baby paid for his sin that the baby's life was taken it was stricken dead and you know the baby had no fault in it but scripture is very clear that it paid the moral consequences it paid the the it was subject to the curse if you will the effect of david's sin he's morally culpable but but the baby suffers the effects and this this is the way god chose the universe to be sure structured. The universe has a moral dimension, and because of that moral dimension, there are consequences for choosing evil. Well, on that note, let's go ahead and actually listen to the clip, so for those wondering just what we're talking about, they can actually hear. So we're going to roll a clip, and this is from Dynasty of Death. This is the Season 2 case file opener,

and let's play it right now. You can see what we're talking about. Hello, wise one. What do you seek? Please, it's my wife, she's dying. Please, please help her. Yes, as it is, she has but one day left. Can you help? Please? Of this earth can heal. As the sun rises tomorrow, so shall the light heal her.

But a price must be paid. I don't have any money. I'm just a poor farmer. But please, I'll do you. I'll do anything for you. I'm good with my hands. I can build you something or I can. Anything, please. Will you heal her? Please, save her. The cost is death. There is no life without death. Yes, I accept. All right. Well, disturbing clip. Great way to start off an episode. And shout out to my good friend Daniel, who played the great great grandfather. And do not worry, he did not bear any consequence. of sin for portraying the great-great-grandfather. So, Father, obviously, this sets the precedent for the entire story, but let me start with

this. Obviously, the great-great-grandfather is doing something gravely wrong here. But there's an interesting dynamic that I think would be worth discussing. And you've talked about this on the show, is that the enemy often portrays a false dichotomy, right, when it comes to these types of circumstances. So walk us through a little bit of what he thought was happening, but how there actually were other options available to him than the enemy. the witch doctor.

The great-great-grandfather felt stuck believing that he had no other choice, but he did have another choice. And that other choice is to implore God to spare the life of his bride, to spare the life of the mother of his children, and if the Lord chose not to do so, to accept his will. Now, it's great, it's difficult. But we either put our faith in God, or we put our faith in something else.

And that's something else that he chose brought a horrific outcome. Like, obviously, it would not be a good thing for the great-great-grandmother to die. But look at how many had died because of the pact he made. Twelve died. And they died, many of them, as children. and they died by suicide. So it brought a tremendous darkness onto the family, onto many families, right, onto the whole generational line, which comprised, which went through the generations.

So he, the grandfather, I believe, he was born, if I recall, 1844. So there had been, you know, heavens, almost two centuries, almost two centuries, of people that were subject to this curse. And so 12 lives were lost. That could have been mitigated if she had been allowed to die. If she died in peace with Christ, and you know what?

Nobody wants this. Nobody delights in it. Certainly God doesn't delight in death. He's very clear about that in the scriptures. But this is what God chose to allow to happen. And in a way of mystery, our happiness is bound up with his will, even in this situation. And so we just move on, accepting that our lot in this life, until we get into the next, is to bear grief and suffering when it comes to us.

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That's try miracle.com slash eX files. Code X-Files at checkout. Thanks to Miracle Made for sponsoring this episode. So, Father, is it fair to characterize our enemy is a very talented predatory lender, and there's always a much bigger bill do than... And I have to reflect on this. I just find it so interesting that, you know, would you say, Father, that he is uniquely gifted at going after us when we are desperate

and we think there's no other option? And obviously scripture tells us that there's nothing that we can't outwit the devil in. If God, God is always providing a door, there's no temptation too great for us. But this seems like a hallmark of his attack pattern, right, is to find us when we're in our seemingly worst, you know, most despondent states and say, hey, it's me or the bad thing, right? Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Yeah, that's exactly what he does. He comes in, you know, just like the mafia.

you're desperate, you're stuck up against a wall, you've painted yourself into a corner, so you seek their help, boy, and that help is going to take you out of that corner and put you into a much narrower corner. And, you know, no one, you know, the, the, the mafia was never built on winners. It was never built on winners. And, and, you know, the demonic mafia is, is, is, is, is that on steroids. So it's just a bad, irrational choice to make that the devil comes to you offering what appears to be a way out, a solution. In fact, what he's doing is putting you further and further into the foxhole. Father, I thought of a demonic mafia name.

You want to hear it? What's that? Ball Capone. Ball Capone. There we go. That one's free. We should put that behind it. the paywall or perhaps a praywall. Father, maybe you could help us contextualize. I know many of us,

especially in modern Western culture, are not thinking, oh, the enemy's not coming after us with, hey, I'm going through this. I need to run to my local witch doctor. I mean, my neighborhood has a jamba juice. That's the closest thing we have to that. But what is another context you think that maybe some of our listeners might find applicable? What are some scenarios where people often feel in your ministry despondent, they have no other choice, and a common, lie the enemy leads them down. Maybe I'm thinking, for example, if someone is caught perhaps in an affair or some unscrupulous behavior and the enemy says you can't get out of this because if you do, the damage will be so bad and no one could ever forgive you. And so you just keep digging a hole.

Is that an example? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know, I've heard an attorney once say, like, look, most people, most criminals, what catches them is not the crime they committed. What catches them are the subsequent lies they tell. It's the subsequent evil that's committed that exposes their crime. And then eventually they paint themselves into a corner because you aren't able, you don't have a grasp of all the angles.

And eventually somebody discovers an angle that leaves you vulnerable, and there you are. You know, in our case in season one, Mark and Cheryl, Cheryl was the woman trying to get pregnant, was absolutely desperate for a baby. And so she was willing to do anything. And so this is the mindset that at the end of the day is absolutely demonic.

That God isn't providing for me what I want. And I've decided that what I want, in Cheryl's case, is a baby. Come heck or high water. I'm not going to be happy without a baby. So I'm going to do what I need to do in order to get this. Then she turns to the occult and just gets drawn into that. world. And so it begins with a wound, huh? I mean, what sets everything up is this wound. And there was lots of preparation going into that wound. You know, she came from big families, big extended families.

They were all interrelated and, you know, babies were the greatest thing in the world. And she had a relative who was never able to get pregnant. And that relative was the object of incredible pity from the other women in her family. She didn't want to be, she didn't want the same. fate as that. So she, you know, gosh, darn it, I'm going to take matters in my own hands. But that is the demonic sin. That is the rebellion of Satan right then and there. God has made a choice. He has allowed reality to have the character that it does. And to not accept it is to commit that that demonic rage, that demonic rebellion. Now, you know, God doesn't say to us accept everything in reality and don't fight against

it. Obviously, I mean, this is why we have medicine. This is why we have, you know, plumbers to get you out, you know, to get your clogged pipe unclogged and get the plumbing going. But there are limits, right? Like there are domains. Like we must not intrude upon the occult. We must not intrude upon that domain.

over which God has sovereignty. We're trying to be God. We're trying to play God. We've left the realm of being human beings, and we've jumped into the realm of rage, that demonic rage against God. And there are tremendous consequences for that. Just ask the devil, right?

Ask them how it's working out for them. I actually don't like to talk to the devil. I heard that in the Xist files. I should not engage in communications with them. I've severed all my ties. I meant that as wonderful. Boom. Another success story.

Of course, I meant that figuratively. Of course. We know, we know, Father, before we leave the topic of generational curses, I thought there's an anecdote that's been shared on the show, and I believe it was a fellow priest friend of yours who shared an account of a godparent at a baptism that illustrated this concept of spiritual authority that we acknowledge today, even in the role of God. parents. So refresh your memories because I think this is helpful for trying to wrap our minds around this generational curse dynamic. This was a story that occurred to a priest who was a seminary

formator of a friend of mine. And so he was at a baptism, baptizing an infant on a Saturday afternoon. And the godfather that the family had selected, there were some rumors that he was, that he wasn't living the faith, but more than that, that, that he was involved with evil stuff, that he was involved with organized crime professionally. Of course, he denied it and stated that he was in full communion with the church and living as a devout Christian and so forth. What happened is at the baptism, see, prior to the actual pouring of the water, there is something called the oil of exorcism applied,

and it's applied over the chest of the baby, over the heart. The sign of the cross is made, and that oil of exorcism is consecrated by the bishop every year at the Easter vigil. So at the moment that that priest's thumb touched that infant's chest, the godfather jumped up in the air backwards, landed on top of the altar on his knees, and started howling like a wolf.

So the action that was done to the godbaby here was felt by the godfather over there. So when he had agreed to be godfather, then there was a spiritual connection, a spiritual conduit was formed. And it flows both ways. So when Christ in that oil, when the Holy Spirit in that oil,

touch that baby and exerted divine power, that flowed up along the line to the godfather. Of course, the baptism was paused that afternoon. Obviously, this man was unfit to be a godfather, so they had to find someone else. Maybe it was baptized, but just not that day. Well, that's important. I think we acknowledge, obviously, spiritual connections and dynamics between parents and children, the sacred role of godparents. And so it seems that it could go both ways and that there is this authority that can be

passed down, et cetera. So all right, well, I want to move on a little bit here. We're going to talk about how Joseph, who is the main protagonist in our story and the victim, he starts to go downhill at a certain point in his life pretty quickly. He was just caught staring at night. He was speaking in strange utterances. Actually, why don't we go ahead? We're going to roll a clip right now of some of some of the children.

of how Joseph's demeanor changed considerably. When Stephen opened the fridge, it was stocked with the usual types of beers that he and Joseph always enjoyed. But they also liked trying new ones and sharing them while working on cars. But this time, when Stephen opened the fridge, he found the bottles all stacked in perfect rows of four. A minor detail to be sure, but Stephen knew his brother was not usually.

this neat. No, I'm good. Thanks. No beer? It's Saturday. We have the perfect car and ice-cold nectar of the gods. This is our heaven, man. Joseph, talk to me. What's going on with you? Honestly, I'm okay. Is it stuff with Alicia? No, Alicia is great. Dude, you're not okay. Why are you talking this way? You should just go. What? Come on, man. Did I do something to piss you off? If I said something, please just tell me.

I'm your brother. Please, Stephen. Just. All right, so great performance by Joseph Coffey. And one little Easter egg, I did pose this actually in the episode teaser when it came out. But our listeners will notice that, I don't know how you would know this just by listening audio-wise. but we did depict Joseph speaking in only forward sentences for those listeners who remember the demon was famously named demon number four and had this pattern throughout all his cadence,

throughout his insults of the priest, everything. But Father, first and foremost, talk to us a little bit about how the onset of the demonization, it didn't seem to come all of a sudden in the sense that he didn't fully like tank, but it started slowly, it came on very quickly, but started then to slowly roll out. And what I find so interesting is that his tells were subtle, and yet a demon has every vested interest in remaining hidden. So can you talk a little bit about the onset of how this happened, is this typical, and why the demon still puts forward these little tells? Yeah. So it didn't happen all at once.

Like it wasn't that the victim woke up one morning and he's fully possessed. And it just struck him out of nowhere. like a food porcel. Like, yeah, or like a cold. You know, like sometimes you get a cold and you weren't around anybody who's sick. You have no idea how the, and you seem to be in good health like you were taking care of yourself. Boom, all of a sudden just you get this virus and it seemingly has come at you out of nowhere. But he develops these symptoms.

He's becoming weird. He's becoming distant. He's withdrawing from his wife, family, and everybody. else around him. He is starting to hear himself speaking to himself compulsively, experiencing pain and thinking about what a failure he's been in his life, that the world would be better off without him. He begins speaking in groups of four. So, of course, when we heard the demon, he strictly spoke in sequences of four. We heard him, like when he would say, no, no, no, no, no, no, four sets of note, rhythmically and compulsively. But it started with obsession with the victim. And the distance that he

showed from his wife and those around him, they just thought there was some kind of depression, some kind of sadness, some kind of, you know, whatever, stuff that life throws at you. And so they were concerned, but they didn't realize the extent of the trouble in which he found himself. Father, a lot of people obviously wrestle with mental health issues and all of us go through seasons of despair and being distraught. What made Joseph's case so interesting and how would you advise someone who is seemingly beginning a journey of mental health issues like Joseph was? And how would that be approached both medically and spiritually with the caveat that he also was hearing voices? he described a voice that was so convincing. And so how would you advise someone who's going through that to kind of walk that line between mental health, you know, from a medical treatment and spiritual and looking out for a spiritual component?

You start to hear voices. The first thing you should do is pick up a phone call your doctor. Get an appointment. Get, you know, like don't, don't jump to the spiritual. It is far more likely that there's something medically wrong with you, that you have some kind of medical. pathology at some level, whatever the heck it is. So medicine needs to be unleashed upon you. They need to check you out. And I will say this, even in people who are demonically afflicted, not all of them hear voices. In fact, in my experience, I think less of them hear voices than do not.

I think overall, it's certainly not a complaint that I hear about from every victim that I've ever dealt with. They will sense a compulsion. They will sense a drive, a kind of an obsessive behavior directing them towards some action, some kind of behavior. But it's not necessarily that they have a dialogue happening in their mind. Let's actually roll a clip that kind illustrates this dynamic Joseph was talking about. A few days before meeting me, when Joseph was alone in his room and Alicia was at work, he began to hear voices. And they urged him to do something terrible. This can end now. A wife deserves better. She does. Death is the only escape. Obviously, very disturbing stuff here. Joseph described this voice, which I'm curious,

father, if you think he was just discussing, was he hearing an audible voice or was he actually just describing the thoughts? But he said it was so compelling, which I find so interesting because both he and his wife were people of faith and they know that God is encouraging and loving and would never say these things. And yet he found it so like inescapable. And so what was going on there? Yeah. I can't say that I really recall the way that it hit him. But it doesn't, I don't think it was an audible voice, but but it was discrete words that were that were, being impressed upon him and they were so arresting that he describes them as a as a voice. And people who suffer from schizophrenia, they will state that they hear a voice or that

they see things. And what they're experiencing are auditory, usually auditory hallucinations. It's a hallucination that expresses itself in words and sentences, but they're so arresting, they're so compelling that they'll describe it as seeing things or as a voice that's speaking to them. But they're not literally hearing sound, but they are being impressed upon by words and sentences, which they describe as a voice because it is hitting them so acutely, so arrestingly. Now the enemy obviously is tactful and I think a lot of us would quickly recognize, you know, obviously God would never tell someone to harm themselves. And yet he found this a compelling voice. And so it seems like the enemy in some of these cases would actually try, we know he likes to try and lace half truths, right? He tries to co-op these, you know, things. Because obviously when Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, the devil came at him and used, you know, actual scripture against him. of which Christ, you know, you know, fired back the full, the full context of the scripture.

So what's your ministerial advice on how to recognize, like the subtle lies and perhaps what are some examples of ways the enemy gets in our head and gives us little half-truths? Because I have to think, like, you know, how, it can't be, how is he confused? God doesn't tell you to do stuff like this, but he said it was so compelling. And that's the part I just find so weird.

Yeah, you know, it was just, it was just like it was to Eve. you know so so what the devil came in and what he did was begin with a lie did god really say to you not to eat from any tree in the garden well of course god didn't say that i mean they they they're eating they're eating and adam and eve are human beings they had to eat you know so she felt compelled to correct him no he didn't say not to eat any but only from one specific tree oh and i'll tell you why he didn't

So he always presents himself as offering you that component that is going to make up for the lack that you experience. First, he has you focus on your lack, right? Look how bad that is. Look how crummy that is. I've got a solution for you. You just have to say yes. And that's always been his tactic. He's never had any other tactic.

He doesn't have to pick any other tactic. It's so effective. It's marvelously effective. So whatever it is that you lack in your life, he'll present himself as the solution for it. Hello, friends. Father Martins here. Priests see a certain affliction over and over again, people feeling overwhelmed, spiritually, emotionally, physically.

Many often feel they are alone that they have no defense. But that's not true. The church and her wisdom has given us powerful weapons, and one of the greatest is the rosemary. I've seen situations where peace returned to a home simply because someone began to pray the rosary faithfully. I've seen fear give way to clarity, darkness give way to light, not because of anything dramatic, but because someone picked up those beads and persevered in prayer.

The rosary is not just a devotion, it's a lifeline. Besides the Eucharistic liturgy, it is the church's most powerful weapon. That is why I want to encourage you not just to own one, but to carry one. Keep it close, use it daily. Recently we were sent some rosaries from Runewood Rosary Company, and I've been impressed both by their craftsmanship and their intentionality. These are not disposable items. They're made to last, solid, beautifully crafted, and designed to accompany you in prayer

for years. If you don't already have a rosary, now is the time to get one. And if you already do, consider getting one that you'll actually carry around. And if you do, consider getting one for someone else. Visit runwood rosary.com. That's R-U-N-E-W-O-O-D-Rosery.com and use the code X-Files or E-X-Files for 15% off your order. Pick it up, pray it, stay faithful.

God bless you all. Hey friends, Ryan here. People ask me all the time. How did you get started in podcasting? It wasn't always exorcism. Here's what happened. A few years ago, I had a dream. At an age when many people buy their first home, I instead bought an old airport shuttle bus. Why? Well, great question. I wanted to have a mobile studio that could travel all across the country and meet the most interesting people to get their best wisdom for life and hear their craziest stories. Because let's be honest, life is very weird. And everyone has a story. So I tore out the back and I put fake campfire in it, and thus was born my first podcast I went camping with. Shout out to my dear

friend Mark, who said, sure, I'll drive with you across the country and we'll just see who God puts on our path for guests. We had no guest booked. We simply drove out in faith. And you know what? God connected us with Mr. Peterman from Seinfeld. PGA and Master's legend, Bubba Watson, Kathy Lee Gifford, Chuck Liddell, and even Andy Weir from the Martian and Project Hell Mary, which is awesome. And pro-surfer Laird Hamilton. Now, I never actually got a chance to upload these to Spotify on video. So I'm going to be re-releasing them on Spotify video for the first time. You can see the cool little night set and fake campfire with the mountains. It's really fun. So if you have found yourself saying for some inexplicable reason, known only to you and God,

that you want more of Ryan's dad jokes, more interviews, more of my run-on questions with just the occasional pearl of priceless wisdom, then I want you to subscribe right now to the Ryan Bethay Show, wherever you get your podcast. Or just click the link in the show notes to subscribe anywhere and everywhere. Check out the Ryan Bethay Show wherever you get your podcasts. And generally speaking, Father, when we have these thoughts, obviously, and obviously not every thought is a spiritual thought. We have brains, and I've always found it fascinating how this interplay of chemicals and chemistry, and yet we're indwell with the spirits, and we can, and I think Catholic theology, too, is that your guardian angel can potentially impart thoughts

to you as well. And so any high-level thoughts on how to discern from your experience, Like, how does Father say, hey, this is what the Holy Spirit is like for me. This is what I know. And then I know how to recognize the voice of the enemy. And, you know, obviously the best way is to get close to the real thing so we can discern the false thing. But what would you say is sort of be on the lookout for, Father? Well, certainly, look, if you're not in communion with Christ, if you're not in a state of grace, you can't trust your discernment, period. Period. Period. You're not in the state of grace. You're not in the kingdom of heaven. You're in the kingdom of darkness. So, you're not in the state of grace. So you're in the kingdom of darkness. So, you're you're you're going to be much more subject to the wiles of the devil. He has a jurisdiction over you. So you can't trust your discernment. You've got to go to people whose discernment you trust, who are living morally upright lives,

who are spiritually connected people, who are people redeemed and renewed by Christ, and listen to them. You know, secondly, like, whatever it is that you're hearing, if it contradicts Scripture, if it contradicts the wisdom of the church, it's not of God. If it contradicts what the saints would do, it's not of God. So one of the things the devil often does is he presents you as a unique case.

You're different than everybody else. Right. So this is the reality that applies to you. You're just, you're different. As soon as you hear stuff like that, like check out, man, because it's just not true. Father, my mom has told me for years that I am special. and unique. She lies.

I'm the unique case. Okay. All right. You've met my mom, so you know how that works. And also, Father, if you get a thought and a craving for iceberg lettuce, how can we discern that? Oh, man. Get rid of it. Okay.

Get rid of it. All right. Let's jump to the actual exorcism room here. So we're going to play. This was a hell of a performance. No pun intended. Or actually pun intended for Joe Coffey. He did a fantastic job as a manifesting demon.

And people always ask us about, we pray, over all these scenes, and it takes a lot out of the actors. They do a lot, but there's a lot of prayer and protection that goes into this. We try to do this as redemptively as possible. But let's head to the Exorcism Room. Now, this battle was crazy. It says there were multiple sessions, no progress being made. Let's roll a clip and see just what Father was in for in this battle.

I commanded him to give me his name, and he taunted me. But when I commanded a second time, he complied very loudly. You who are manifesting demon in the name of Jesus, he will tell me your name. One, two, three, four. Demon, I command you to tell me your name. Can't you count, bastard? In the name of Jesus, tell me your name. Four letters is the hint.

Let me spell for you. F, you, C. Answer me, demon. In the holy name of Jesus, tell me your name now. I am five. Can't train, slough arbor. I am four. Didn't really put much thought into your name, did you?

Demon, you obey my commands in the name of Christ. Now be silent. Joseph, I'm speaking to you. Trust God. Jesus is going to set you free. And you, demon, you call yourself for I command you. No, Joseph. Only for, forsaken, forsook, fornicator, for God.

For you will be silent. All right, so Father, interestingly in this battle, You see, obviously, violent demon, really gnarly. But what was so frustrating and it seems confusing for you is that you said, Joseph claimed to have cleansed his soul by confessing within the sacrament of confession. Every sin he was conscious of committing. And yet it seemed to change nothing. In fact, the demon was just as powerful in the 15th session as he was in the first.

So you asked Joseph if he had ever made a pact of the devil or anyone else who might represent him, Fortune teller, psychic, healer, it's even an old girlfriend. And the answer was always no. So what are you feeling in the room at this point, Father? Demons just as strong. It's been 15 sessions. Are you starting to pull a collar over like, I don't know what to do. What do you think in it?

What's going through your head? Well, what's going through my head is he's lying so that the victim is lying or that there's a curse going on. and, you know, there was just nothing in his behavior in his person that made me doubt him. And in speaking to his white, like, they seemed like honest people. I'm suspecting a curse. And curses can be really tough to find, to identify and localize. It's a trial and error thing. Like, in a sense, in a sense, you're looking for a needle in a haystack.

Like, where do you even begin? Well, every exorcist's typical strategy is, is you try to compare. the demon. But they don't necessarily reveal that. And it may go on and on and on without it being revealed. The demon wasn't giving us any kind of information, anything that would be revealing or telling. And then we caught a break. And a break you did get. So let's roll a clip. This is the other thing that ruffles so many feathers and is just unprecedented in Exorcist Files case Lord. So let's roll this with a cameo from a guest star. I repeated the command a fourth time.

Demon, I command you to obey in the name of Jesus. Tell me your name. He looked at me and was clearly afraid. But there was something else in his eyes, something I couldn't really explain. I thought to myself, this is either the most powerful demon I have ever encountered, because he doesn't react at all to what I say, or he is the weakest, because he is so afraid he can't speak. Finally, I turned to him and asked,

Demon, who are you? Quietly and almost even shyly, he lightly shook his head and said, I am not lie to me in the name of Jesus. Tell me your name, demon. I am. But for the grace of God most merciful, I would be with them. Well, a break you certainly did get. What a cameo. Father, let's just break this down.

Something changed. You mentioned that there was a shift in the countenance, and you're on guard in these rooms. So you're used to a dynamic you actually mentioned. Tell us about this, Father. You're used to demons swapping out. What do you mean by that? If there's more than one demon inhabiting an individual, and even if there isn't, they can at times, bring just another demon within to suffer in their place. So you're having an exorcism session. You're beating the snot out of a demon, so to speak, with the prayers. And it's causing him injury. It's causing him suffering. It's draining his energy.

So what he'll do is they'll switch another one to take the punishment. So now you have a fresh demon who's not injured. you know, who's at, you know, full level of energy. And if you don't know that, if you don't catch that, then the fight has just become unfair. A fresh demon is facing you, who, you who are tired and exhausted by this point. Now, they'll do that sometimes overtly, so that you can see clearly. And, you know, certainly an exorcist, if he doesn't learn to say, no, stop, bring, Lord, make the first demon come back out so that he, He takes it. You're subject to now a rule of engagement that they've introduced into the fight that you don't have to subject yourself to.

But sometimes they do it without you even being aware of it. And in that sense, gosh, you're just stuck with it because you're not even aware of it. So you might say, periodical Lord, if there's been any switching here, reverse it or make me aware if there's an attempt at a switch. but this was an occasion where we encountered an overt switch. So there's just this new voice, this new personality coming out. And he exhibited markedly different characteristics than the demon that we had just been fighting. So we knew that there was a new demon, so to speak, here. And I see demon in scare quotes, because it wasn't a demon. It was the great-great-grandfather.

Yeah. And so when he says, I am no demon, and you're just, you know, you're, you just don't trust any of this, right? So, Father, you're, you got to be red alert. This has got to be some bizarre tactic. What did it take to convince you that this was not a demon? We, he, he spoke about the Lord's mercy. Like, that was, boom. The, you know, a demon is never, ever, ever, ever going to praise the Lord's mercy, ever.

he'll mock it. He will deny that the Lord has mercy. It would be absolutely beneath him and antithetical to his whole endeavor, his whole project, to affirm that the Lord is merciful. So, Father, you mentioned the eyes a lot, too. Is there distinct demonic personality swapping out? And then you just, it's the most subtle of clues in the face or the eyes. Is it something that you're, you know, that when they swap out, even though it's the same person, you just, you notice something's just little different? Oh gosh, it's usually not a little different. It's usually a whole lot different. It's exhibited on the entire body of that victim. There's different muscles that are now contorted, that are now strained or they're strained in a different way. There's a different way of speaking.

There's a different kind of gaze or at least different habits of being that you see, a different way of shaking, a different way of twitching, a different way of, snarling, a different way of swearing, different patterns of cussing and so forth. All right, so, Father, at some point, you're convinced, all right, this is the great, great grandfather. So, is this a lost soul? What is, in Catholic theology, what is happening with a great-grandfather? And what is the correct term? Is he in dwelling? Is he occupant? What is happening? Catholic theology has no, has, There's nothing in Catholic dogma that can explain this.

This was simply a grace from the Lord. What makes us so sure that it was from the Lord? Because we pounced on it, we followed the advice that was given, and it brought about Joseph's liberation. So obviously, it's not going to be from the enemy. It's going to be from God. His great-grandfather, I think he says in the actual conversation, that he is enduring his purgation or something.

And so you believe that God just allowed this in his sovereignty, this guy to come forward. And then he provides this clue, which is that he made this horrible pact. And once you heard that, right, you know, okay, this is the door. We got to pummel. And then if I recall, when the great-grandfather left, the demon came back and now armed with this new intel, the demon was pissed and actually had no idea how you would know. So what happened? Yeah, it was the intel, that there was now an explanation that made sense.

And it didn't cost us anything to try it. You know, when we mentioned it to the demon, you know, that there was this curse. Like, you know, it went ballistic. He went ballistic because we were now armed with information that we didn't have before. So curses foiled again, you know, like you'd see in the old cartoons. That was exactly the demeanor that he displayed, that he was. that he was in a rage that we had discovered the rights that he had, the door that was open. Was this a law? So would this be called a lost soul then? What would this be called?

You know, we don't tend to use the term lost souls. This would be a suffering soul. This would be a soul living out his purgation. I mean, that's what he had identified himself as. Okay. And then, of course, once armed of this new information, you got Joseph to renounce this pact and basically declare his independence from it and remove it at that point demon stranglehold is broken and joseph ultimately finds liberation let me ask you this father how many of your colleagues have experienced like this is this sounds so rare from at least my i mean i've had the privilege now of interviewing quite a few deliverance and ministers and exorcists over the years and i've never heard of this outside of your account is this a particularly rare

occurrence that you think you just were blessed to experience It's very, very rare. Most exorcists have not experienced this kind of thing. But, you know, when we get together and talk at conferences, there are some that do. And they share their stories. And for me, it came early on, and it just happened to be that way. But there are other experiences that other exorcists have had that I've never had. So it just, you know, it's kind of the luck of the draw, so to speak, whatever God wants to have happen.

Okay. Well, this case is so bizarre. Father, I want to, as we land the plane here, obviously, this case has a lot of dynamics. One in particular is pattern recognition. And so I'm curious, what did Joseph and his wife think about the fact that they had so much ancestral trauma and obviously many others had committed suicide? Were they assuming that this was just a, you know, just a sad reality of their family? And for those, And I guess maybe you could lead us home to with a take home of, you know, is this sort of pattern recognition something that we should all look to in our family histories? If we see something that is repeating itself over and over again, would you say, hey, it might be worth considering a spiritual option here? I just find it so fascinating that, you know, he had so much trauma and death in his family and didn't seek out a spiritual solution to it. Yeah, exactly what you said. They assumed that this was just the way things are, kind of the luck of a draw. and, you know, bad luck seems to find us.

They didn't recognize a pattern that was spiritual in origin, or that could be spiritual. They never, to be even more precise, they didn't act on this with a spiritual solution. They didn't take it to the Lord and say, Lord, end this patterning, end this. They just, you know, every time a suicide would happen, Oh, my God, you know, this was so bad. This was horrible. But there wasn't this, this thought, like, why does this keep happening? Lord, can you break this and undertake some actual spiritual work there? Some acting with some muscle there, imploring the Lord to bring about a change.

What would you invite listeners to consider, obviously, we don't want to scare anyone or think, obviously, all families have. We're all broken humans, making more. broken humans and so that's going to compound. But what would you say is the sort of wise way to discern if you have something going on? And we always come back to because she's a friend of the show and has a remarkable testimony, but Tammy Comer with her story and how she was bearing the brunt of these consequences of something that an ancestor of hers had done. And when she got delivered, she got healed. And so there is a framework for this. And so what's your advice, Father, for how we should approach this and looking into patterns and trauma in our lives and how we should approach it with spiritual solutions.

Take it to the Lord. Ask for his healing. Bring him the symptoms and undertake the work for that. And expect that it's going to take more than just a 10-second prayer. How badly do you want these patterns of destruction eliminated from your family line? So if you really want it, then you're prepared to engage in the battle for more than 10 seconds. Like a steady, daily encounter with God, asking him, asking his saints, asking the angels to come and make battle against this dysfunction. And it can be anything.

It can be, hey, that no male in the family makes it past 55 years of age and they have a heart attack. At heart, is it the devil causing that? maybe, maybe not. Maybe it's just purely a genetic thing. But that in and of itself is something that God can heal. And that exists ultimately because of the fall of Adam and Eve, which brought sickness into the world, which brought death into the world. God can heal that.

Start doing battle with that every day. Maybe in your family, marriages end in divorce in an uncanny way. or maybe there's a pattern of incredible infidelity, or maybe there's a pattern of violence in some way. Maybe you don't notice any patterns, but there's still, that doesn't mean there aren't any patterns. Even if you think your family is more or less all right and has been spared, you don't know.

So undertake that, Lord, bring healing into my family line, bring healing into the entire human family, prehealing into the Gonzales family that lives across the street, that family always seems to be subject to bad luck and horrible things happening. But bring healing into the Campbell family that also seems to always be fighting horrific marital problems and so forth. They deal with alcoholism constantly. That should always be the first mode of our reaction.

Don't be looking for an exorcist right away. Look, there are almost 5 billion people in the world. And there's painfully too few priests and even fewer exorcists to be able to do this, to be able to treat everybody, to be able to sit down with everybody and help you identify patterns. And so undertake that work with the Lord. Right. Get hunker down with some prayer. Father, as we wrap up here, this case has some great lessons. It obviously frustrates me a lot in some ways too. but I love the dynamic that, yes, there are maybe generational curses, but on the other hand,

the spiritual authority goes both ways. And so we've all been given these gardens by God to steward and tend to. And we might be actually having spiritual authority or the opportunity to bless things that we're not even aware of. And so could you just close us out with some reflection and encouragement on that connection that we might have with things we may not even realize? you have the authority of a son or daughter of God you have the authority you know what like a child is under authority of mom and dad but a child also makes his authority felt right he cries he expresses a need boom mom and dad's bring into action and and the same the same goes for us and God he responds to our prayers, that our prayers are endearing to him because we are his sons and daughters. So don't

sell your prayers short. They are endearing to God. They have an effect on God. And they bring about good. Amen. Amen. Indeed. All right. Well, folks, thanks for tuning in. If you've not heard this case, go back and listen to Dynasty of Death, preferably in the daytime, not something you want to listen to right before bed. Father, we did not do praise and haze for this, but would you like a dad joke to sign us off since we talked about some serious stuff today? All right. What's the only apparel brand that there is no choice of whether to buy it or not? You are going to buy it no matter what? Uh, what? Calvinist Klein. Calvinist Klein. All right. On that note, it is better that I should go.

It is better that you should go. All right. Well, everybody, have a blessed day. I hope the Lord blesses everyone, blesses your families, and may he give you a glorious Easter Sunday. Amen. Thanks for listening, folks. See you next time.