The Extras - Behind The Scenes of an Audio Commentary Team

Episode Date: November 15, 2024

Send us a textHave you ever wondered what the people who record the audio commentaries of your favorite movies do to prepare?  Well, even if you haven’t wondered, we take you behind the scenes with the audio commentary team of Dr. Steve Haberman and Constantine Nasr to get the real scoop on their process.  This is a light-hearted and fun episode that I think you’ll enjoy. The Extras Facebook pageThe Extras Twitter Warner Archive & Warner Bros Catalog GroupOtaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals. www.otakumedia.tv

Hi, Tim Millard here and since we're in November, I want to take a minute to thank you for listening to the Extras podcast and supporting our show. I did want to share a couple of features that you may not be aware of that are now available with our podcast. One is if you scroll down on the show notes, there is a transcript option. So look for that if that might interest you. And a brand new feature is send us a text that's right below the play button on most players If you selected it will open up a text option and you can send us a message

You can have suggestions for the show a question or a comment of how much you enjoyed the episode Those are always appreciated Now a text is nice But we also appreciate any actual reviews that you want to post at your podcast provider as that always helps the show And helps others who may be exploring and finding new shows to find the extras. Thanks for listening. It's recording, right? Yes, Steve. Hi. Steve who? Steve? Hi, this is Steve Haberman, Dr. Steve Haberman. I'm a PhD, I'm a producer, I'm a writer, I'm an author. I'm

too good to be with these two other guys. Yeah, that's right. Well, this is just a warm-up. Fortunately, this should never, you know, probably get out to the public. No, I want this all out. Yeah. So, what do you guys usually have your coffee when you're getting ready for your commentaries here? Well, we always have coffee. We have to be highly caffeinated to get motivated to do these things.

This is a lot of work. Yeah, of course. And I have three cups of or three glasses of wine and a few tequilas just to ensure I'm happy and smiling in Steve's presence. Yeah, I'd like to believe that. That would be fun but I know that you produce these as well. So, if all you're doing was talking, I could believe that you might do that, Constantine. But as a producer, you're like you got to like know that you have what you need.

So Constantine needs wine like I need coffee. He really does. He does. He needs to relax. His inner talent comes out. Otherwise, he gets a little nervous. But as you know, like I'm sitting here trying to actually making sure that Tim's levels are right and they're not right. Hello, hello. How about now? Okay, I'm close enough now. Low to a gallon night.

There we go. Hi, Tim Allard here, host of the Extras podcast. So as you can tell, we're going to take a little behind the scenes sneak peek with my good friends, Steve Haberman and Constantine Nasser, film historians and writers extraordinaire. And they invited me over to just kind of to have coffee with them before they dive into their audio commentary, one of many that they do each month for various boutique labels, including the Water Archive, as they recently did one for The Beast with Five Fingers that came out in October. Hope you enjoy.

Well, I thought I'd ask you guys a couple of questions. I know you guys are here. What are you here to do actually here? Oh, generically, we're doing a commentary for a classic Gothic horror film from the 1950s. So where are we, Constantine? Hi, this is Constantine, Constantine Nasser. I'm not a PhD and proud of it. Anyway, I'm much younger than Steve, by the way. And his mother says he's a very good eater.

So today we're actually going to be recording in in my home office, this commentary track, we're making adjustments as we speak. It's always a little complicated when you're trying to record and think of things to say to catch up with Steve because he's very witty on his feet. And a lot of knowledge in that brain of his. I'm very witty on my butt too. Well what I was trying to get at is that you have a home studio and it's a great setup and that's where you usually do your commentary recording for what you and Steve do. Yeah when when budget started going away it just made financial sense to figure out

how to do this cheaper and faster. Yeah. And I would hate to beg people for discount rates. So, and this has actually happened before COVID. We were doing this before COVID. And I was also editing a lot from home and doing a lot of my work from my home studio. And then it just seemed to be the kind of the only way to do this,

especially the way we like to do it and the way some of the talent that I work with where a lot of, a lot of retakes, I'm going to have people come in here for a whole week trying to get the commentary to perfection. And I tend to indulge my friends. You know, one thing when I was doing extras, you know, Warner Brothers, we'd sometimes go and interview the people who did the music. And that's a great conversation if music is an important part of the TV series or the film.

And so many times we're ending up at a person's home studio because with today's tools, you know, most musicians and most people who are in charge of the sound on these would do their first cuts or do their initial thinking or creating everything. So you have here in LA, you've got people who have houses and they're downstairs, it's their studio or their guest house or whatever. And so it works great, but that's because we have computers and we have the ability to do that and things are affordable and it's a great way to do it. Then you can go do your final at the studio or the stage or whatever you need to do.

Well, clients never liked coming to my office that I had to pay for. So I figured, why am I getting an office? So when I moved here, it was, and now people wanna go back to the office. Yeah, exactly. Well, plus it's better for the commentary because many times I've recorded at professional recording studios in LA and Santa Monica and so on and what they do is they just take the raw footage of my commentary and slap it onto the DVD or the Blu-ray and it's got my

frumpfers and it's got me starting over again and all that kind of, I try to do it as well as I can in one take, but even Orson Welles has got to be edited a little bit, you know. And this way I'm completely secure that Constantine is gonna make us both sound really good. Yeah, yeah. So people might not be interested in knowing

the financial element of why we do stuff at home or in our own home studio and stuff. But I think they are interested to know why do you actually do these commentaries? What is it that interests you in getting together and doing these for the fans? Well, I personally think that my voice should be commenting on every movie ever made. So that's my motivation. I just think that everybody should hear be commenting on every movie ever made. So that's my motivation. I just think that everybody should hear

my thoughts on everything. Just ask his wife, that's true. You are a PhD, I mean you're a doctor. Right, exactly, you know. I should be paid for this. You guys aren't being paid, are you? No. Oh good, thank God. But I did wanna know, like what's the motivation?

Why get together? Why do this? Well, I actually like Steve's company. That may surprise even Steve. But mostly surprises me. These days, it's nice to have a reason to get together. And it's fun. I mean, it's work.

I think people think it may not be. But I think even in our effort to come off with off the cuff commentary, it may sound unplanned, but we've been thinking and talking and researching. Not just maybe Steve, but I spent a lot of time prepping this, so it sounds a little bit like I can catch up with this guy. Well, it's like writing a book. you know, I mean Orson Welles,

again, he said nobody in the cave when we were cavemen ever said to anybody get up and act out a play for us. One guy, one caveman with a huge ego decided that he was going to get up and do a presentation in front of everybody else in the cave and that was the beginning of theater. And that's sort of what we do with these commentaries, you know, we're very self-important and we just think that what we have to say may be of some value and so, you know, it's and also we love these movies. I never do a movie that I don't love or at least like, or at least have been blackmailed into doing. So, you know. Well, going back in the time machine, is there something you can remember?

Like you heard an audio commentary maybe early on, and you're like, ha, I could do that or I wanna do that. Anything like that that you guys recall? No. Well, actually I can't, I can't do that. I mean, actually, I can't. I can say that. Look, I started my career producing commentaries or earlier in my career where I was just a producer. So I produced arguably like probably 1,000 commentaries.

And after several years of working with people that I thought were among the best in the business, I certainly found myself, especially when you end up interviewing people and then they die and then you end up being like one of the last people that spent time with with actors or directors. Yeah. You become the one that carries on the knowledge because there aren't any there's nobody left from the golden age. And so if I've spent time with Kirk Douglas,

I guess I could share those stories because I was in the aerial realm of that famous actor. So I think Steve's in probably the same boat, but I at a certain point just thought, I can do this as well because I know what it takes and I'm a writer as well. So. And you're both writers.

Right, yeah. Well, like I said, it's like writing a book, you know, instead of doing that. Writing a book is a lot of work, it takes a long time but doing a commentary you can do in an afternoon. Yeah. And you can get all of your thoughts out or at least as many as you can remember at the time and you know, maybe it is of value. Steve, what was your very first commentary?

Well, I did comment. My first commentaries were movies that I wrote. I did a commentary for Life Stinks with Mel Brooks because I wrote my Life Stinks with Mel Brooks and I did Dracula Dead and Loving It and Constantine was the producer of that commentary. It was me and Mel and Rudy DeLuca and I enjoyed doing it and I guess Constantine thought that maybe I would be good at doing movies that I didn't write. So he asked me to do Village of the Dam. Yeah, like Village of the Dam. Yeah, Village of the Dam, but I think that was the first one.

And so I did it and I enjoyed it and then you know,, people just asked me to do them. We got along because we also had a lot in common, not just in a superficial way about I love horror movies and you like this or that. It was much deeper and I could get into these, I think, rich conversations with Steve and even though he had more experience in other areas, I think he'd just written his book, I had read the book, I knew of him from that capacity as well and we just struck up a friendship. And then it was sometime in the mid-2000s, I think we were doing the Fox box set, which I had suggested to my friends over at 20th Century Fox,

because it was a weird experience. We've got three films, it was like Chandu the Magician, what was it, Chandu, The Lodger, and Dragonwick. Can we put those three in a box set? I'm like, that's- No, no, that wasn't part of the set. I had them switch it up. Yeah, there was like three random films. And I said, Well, why don't you do a John Brahm set?

And why don't you do this? And we took actually Chan Chan do and anyway, Dragonwick was up for grabs. And there was not a lot to the budget. So I said to Steve, Can we do a commentary? And I like threw it in for free. So is that the first one you guys did together then? The first one we did together. I was very nervous. That's back in 2000-ish. You said 2000? I remember, yes, 2007 or something and I had all these pages and notes and everything and Steve's like, just don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. I said have fun, nobody's going to listen to this anyway.

Just say what you want to say, who cares. How many do you think you've done over the years? 70. I have done 70, I know that. There's a great website on the internet called Discape and a guy named Patrick Mullins does it. Look that up, Google Discape and it has lists and the posters and everything of all the commentators that work regularly. And it's pretty impressive. And that's how I know I've done 70. And you've done 70, but how many have you guys done together? Oh, I hadn't counted those. We probably have done over 30. I think I've done over 40.

And some of them like Dracula or you know, Never Take Suites from a Stranger, those are solo. Yeah. But I think together and this goes into like Dr. Fibes and the Poe films and so we've done a number. So, you talked about it or touched on it briefly, but how do you prepare when you know that you've got a film and you're going to be doing commentary? What's your process Steve? Well, I watch the movie. Yeah, and then I read up on it and then I take a bath and while I'm in the bath

I think about an angle. Mm-hmm. I think what has not been said about this movie. Hopefully something that's really key Yeah and the angle you want to look for is something that has to do with the actual auteur of the movie, be it the director, that's ideal, or the screenwriter, or the producer, or whatever. And you think about what does this movie have in common in terms of themes and style with the other work by this auteur. And you start mulling that over and pretty soon, you know, the light goes on and perhaps you'll come up

with an original thought that hasn't been in any of the books that you've read or any of the comments that you've seen and you know, encyclopedias of film and stuff like that. And that's pretty much my pre-production process. Constantine? Well, despite having a critical studies degree from USC, I actually come, I'm just looking at levels. I come to it knowing he's going to be doing that approach. And I'm trying to just make

sure I have all the facts ready to go. like to whenever possible and particularly with these old films Get access to the screenplay and try to understand what the writer was aiming for and when I say writer This in the golden age certainly they were crafted between the writer the producer Sometimes the director, you know, but oftentimes it was the producer telling the writer, what is it we wanna do and then go make something. And luckily with these films, there's in the horror and science fiction genre, so much research, so much material has been unearthed.

It's hard to find stuff that you can wedge into a 90 minute film that hasn't been sourced somewhere else. But sometimes, and I think with with the Curse of Frankenstein, I mean, I was holding on to a script that I had found for about 10 years to release information. So from I come to add it, I come to this more from a film history standpoint, so that I can at least compliment or have some other things that Steve is, you know, complements what Steve is bringing to the table. And, uh, and, and sometimes we get it right, I think, or at least we, we, we,

I think that most of the times we add to the conversation, to the value into the history of the legacy of the film we're talking about. So what's the hardest part of, uh, of the commentaries? Is it the preparation or is it the editing or what is it? Keeping him sober. It's very hard because you don't want to hurt anybody's feelings but you know, it's certain things professional you have to do. Steve can't hit me anymore like butt avid because of when I have neck surgery, so if he hits me, my head might fall off. Exactly.

What was the question? What was the hardest part or what is the hardest part of doing this? There's no hard, driving down from Crestline I guess, I don't know. This is all- Dealing with deli traffic. Yeah, this is all joy. Once we get in here and we're doing it, it's fun. I mean, for me, I wouldn't blame Konstantantine if he disagreed but I enjoy the process, all of it. I enjoy

researching it and thinking about it and saying it and then listening to it later and then you know. So, that leaves the door wide open for you Constantine. You can say what's hard about working with Steve, you know. You know, actually the thing about what Steve likes to record. And then after about five minutes, like, let's let's take it from the top. I want to hear the whole thing over again, what we just recorded. And I get kind of annoyed by that.

But I know why he's doing it. I know. But, you know, it does, I think, set the stage, even if 90 percent of it is Steve talking of where we're going with the thing. And and from from my from my aspect, because I'm also the engineer and the editor, I'm thinking about, I'm looking actually as we're recording, making sure right now the microphone is picking up my voice clearly enough. I'm looking at it. So these are the things I do when I'm trying to think about watching Steve, is he going

to stop talking? So then am I jumping in? I don't know. But I can, you know, watching Steve, is he going to stop talking? So then, am I jumping in? I don't know, but I, you know, so there's a balance. And then the real work of editing is tricky. But yeah, it's mostly enjoyable. Usually when we hit the halfway mark, we're halfway there. Marshall Sikorski Yeah, that's true. You know, we were always saying, how much more of this movie is there left? We've said it all, we're gonna have to start making stuff up now. Right. All right, so you just mentioned the hardest part which there's nothing for you, Steve. So,

what's the most enjoyable or your favorite part of it? That's a very good question. You know, I guess hearing it the first time. Maybe tub time, tub time there. Yeah, tub time is good. But I think, no, I think hearing it for the first time. Maybe tub time, tub time there. Yeah, tub time is good. But I think, no, I think hearing it for the first time because what he does is, you know, two or three days later, he'll send it to me on email and I listen to it and it's always better than I thought it was. Because when you finish something, especially something like this, it's very handmade, it's

very analog, you know, and you think about, oh, I should have said this or did I say that or you know, did I say that at the right time? Did I mispronounce that? You know, you think about stuff and then you hear it again and it's pretty good. It's usually pretty good. And I very seldom ask to redo anything or change anything because you know, I mean, we're very much on point when we do this. It's a concentrated day. We do all these in one day. We, you know, I mean, we're very much on point when we do this. It's a concentrated day. We do all these in one day. You know, I come down from the mountain and then we have lunch and then we talk about how we're going to approach this and then we do it.

We just start doing it and then I go home, which is another two and a half hour drive. And so, hearing it for the first time I think is exciting. How about for you, Constantine? I actually feel relief when we're done and then I feel relief when the edit is done because it takes a lot of time. And I admit here on the podcast, I mean, I rerecord a lot of myself

because often I come off like an idiot when I'm trying to like come up with a word like now idiot when I'm, you know, trying to like come up with a, you know, word like now and Steve's like, here's the word you want. Okay, thanks. Thanks. Um, but when I'm able to not be intimidated, um, no, actually when, when, when I'm, I'm, I'm able to relax when the whole session is done, it's a lot easier for me to like edit something, see how much time I have, fill in a gap or

move a few things around, usually what I say, so that there is something of substance to bounce off of Steve. So I mean, that's where that's where my post production skills come in. But yeah, it's it's a challenge. But I am I'm happy when Steve is happy. And I'm happy when hopefully we get good marks if The reviews come in and people listen to this and usually we've gotten some very nice compliments from people I really respect that make the whole thing worthwhile. I Mean you basically are kind of like doing a rewrite of yourself and just kind of making polished and everything

My one of my favorite experiences was recording my dear friend, Frank Deribont, for the commentary session for The Green Mile, which took 120 hours to record. Because he really enjoyed the experience. And he's proud of that number because he came in day after day, week after week, to polish this commentary.

I've been around seeing filmmakers. They take their time and some people come in and just wing it and don't care. So I like to take time and I'm not charging myself, but time is money. So my time is valuable. I try to respect Steve's time and make sure he sounds as good as possible. And then of course lastly the audience's time and make sure he sounds as good as possible. And then, of course, lastly, the audience's time. So if they're listening and we've done well for some filmmaker that we love, that's also good. Well, I'm glad you mentioned Frank because I was just about to ask you the next question was the difference.

What's the difference between producing these and then when you were just the producer for Frank or for many of the other directors that you've worked with. Well, you know, I'll just go back to my first time with Steve. Steve and Rudy DeLuca and Mel Brooks came in to record for Dracula Dead and Loving It and I think they came in and it was the two hours of the runtime of the movie. Maybe you took a bathroom break. There are definitely some times where I've worked with filmmakers where they want it over longer stretches. Some people come in scripted.

Everybody's got a different method. And I just actually, as intimidated, I might sound like it's intimidating to do it with Steve because we're just, what are we saying today? What are we saying in the scene? It's actually a lot of fun. So I think we make it fun. Some people come in and it's a real obligation

and it's like a challenge for them to do it. Even filmmakers today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think audio commentaries continue to be very popular. And I know a lot of the boutique labels, they want these commentaries so they can have you know, hours that they can say or of new content and everything. But why do you think these continue to be so popular

with the fans? Well, I like listening to commentary. I mean, if it's a movie that I love, I want to experience it in many different ways, you know. I've seen, usually movies that I love, I want to experience it in many different ways, you know. Usually movies that I loved, I've seen a million times and so, it's a new experience to hear somebody else's commentary on it. And if somebody can bring something to the movie that I didn't see myself or maybe even just agree with me, you know, that's fun. I don't like commentaries where somebody is just telling me you know, all the credits of some minor actor or you know, stuff like that that you can look up on the internet. But if there's some kind of real

insight about a film or a filmmaker that I love, that's time well spent for me. Yeah, I mean there's some films out there that I wish had commentaries and that if you, you know, you look at films of let's say the 60s. Well, if there's not going to be a Star Wars commentary without George Lucas, right? Like Steven Spielberg does not want commentaries on his films. We're getting to a point where there will be a time where someone else will get to do a Godfather commentary and really reveal all the stuff. someone else will get to do a Godfather commentary and really reveal all the stuff. I think the history of cinema has has been allowed opportunities thanks to the studios themselves. As Leonard Malton once put it to me, they've the studios have, you know, by default paid for the recording of their own history. And somehow you can get away on some of these boutique labels without having legal departments tell you you can't talk about a budget.

You can't talk about someone got replaced or fired, you know, in many of the cases where we want to go deeper. You sometimes just can't. But I think there's just an inherent nature of history. There's the value of commentaries when they are done well with thought and the work is put into them. And I think sometimes, you know, more often than not,

you're going to glean something from a filmmaker, even if they're just sitting there talking, it's their movie and they're talking about something that's on screen and it sounds obvious. You may not know what and why, but that that commentary is you're getting special time with that filmmaker for that two hours. Historians, you know, there are some that are better than others. And if we can bring something to the table, eventually the films that demand historical track or just demand context, you know, whether it's pulp fiction, where's a, you know, Tarantino, why didn't you do a commentary? You know, it's his prerogative not to.

But I'll tell you, I really appreciated doing a commentary with Mel Brooks. That's for sure. Yeah. And Steven Rudy. Thanks. Well, that's for sure. Yeah. And Steven Rudy. Thanks. Well, I, I, and Steven Rudy. I, as a fan of history, I feel like life goes by. And so you're living history. And if you film history, you know, you saw a movie this year, you saw one this month, this week, it goes by. Um, it's when you take the time to evaluate history or somebody does who starts to bring back to your attention, hey, while you were living, this was happening. And while you just had to watch this movie and this TV show this evening with your kids

or whatever, life went on and years have gone by and now you revisit something. And the person who knows the history of that film, that TV show or history itself brings back to your attention something and you're like, oh my gosh, I didn't even realize the importance of what I was seeing at the time because I didn't know that we were breaking new ground with this movie. I didn't know that this TV series was breaking new ground. People who then can look back on these things and dig in, film historians, film critics, help us, I think, reevaluate a film, reevaluate a TV series, re-appreciate it. And you might say, well, yeah, I liked it when I first saw it, but now I'm re-watching it. And I'm re-watching it now,

hearing somebody bringing me some new information that helps me appreciate the work that went into it. And I think that's what I've enjoyed and we work in the behind the scenes and the extras and the supplements, whatever you want to call that stuff for the films and TV shows. And commentaries I think are a key part of that because it's something you can do while you're watching. The rest you kind of just, you're watching that feature, you're watching that interview. This you can listen to while you're watching the film and it's unique.

I think it's pretty unique and it's great that you guys are doing these. Yeah, well, that's one of the things that commentaries do. It gives you perspective because like you say, you'll take a work for granted because it's contemporary with you, you're swimming in the same water as they are and you can't see it.

But with time and the right commentator, it can give you perspective and you see value in a work that wasn't apparent at the time. That's why history is written years later, not while it's happening. Because you don't know where it's going. Yeah. And that's hopefully one of the things that commentaries do. But you know, a commentarian can't just be, well, they can, but should, let's say should. To give that kind of perspective should have, be familiar with disciplines beyond film history and film criticism. You know, I used to tell my students that if you want to be a filmmaker, learning how to make a film is just step one, that's easy. And learning the history of film is something else but you also need to be into psychology, into philosophy,

into history, into science. The more you know, the more you're going to bring to the art and that's true of evaluating art as well, you know. Even you know, we seem to specialize in horror films of a certain type, classic horror films we'll say or gothic horror films. And you know, they were products of literature, they were products of philosophy, they were products of their time, which is history. And the more you know about all of those satellite

disciplines, the more you're going to bring to that commentary. And then the more that hopefully the listener will appreciate that work and see how it's buzzing the lights of all these other disciplines. Yeah. And there's so much psychology in horror films. Oh, yeah.

Very much. Very Freudian. So the more that you understand. Exactly, right. Jungian, Freudian, whatever, you know, that influences. Exactly. And you think back to the 20s, 30s, 40s and all the change that was happening in the world in sciences and psychology and that's-

And the art world too, you know what I mean? The first great horror film arguably is The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari which was basically you know, you could rename that movie This is Expressionism. Because that's what they were doing is they were sort of like revealing expressionism which was a very esoteric art movement of the time and shortly before the time and now we have Cabinet of Dr. Caligari thaterves it and not only that, but uses it for artistic reasons to you know, to explore a horror story. Well, I've held you back long enough from diving into your project but thanks for taking a few minutes to talk about doing audio commentaries.

I'm always interested in talking about myself. I hope you enjoyed that little peek behind the scenes there with Constantine and Steve. It was a lot of fun for me to just go over and talk to them. And it's a little bit different, something a little lighter here to enjoy here on the extras podcast. As always, if you're enjoying our podcasts, be sure to subscribe and join our Facebook group if you'd like to do that. And as always, stay slightly obsessed about audio commentaries. Hi, this is Tim Allard, host of The Extras Podcast, and I wanted to let you know that

we have a new private Facebook group for fans of the Warner Archive and Warner Bros. Catalog physical media releases. So if that interests you, you can find the link on our Facebook page or look for the link in the podcast show notes.