The Extras - Classic Rock, Carry On, and The End of the SPN Road with Bob Singer

Episode Date: November 18, 2021

Executive Producer and Director Bob Singer joins the podcast to take a look back at his career in this two-part podcast series.  In part two we discuss with Bob Singer the classic rock music that was used in the series Supernatural.  We explore the process of choosing the music for the episodes, working with music supervisor Alex Patsavas to secure the rights, and how Bob worked with composers Jay Gruska and Chris Lennertz.  We also review a few favorite tracks used over the years and Bob’s memories of those episodes.Then we dive into a discussion of the series finale “Carry On,” which Bob directed.  We learn about the impact of the pandemic shutdown on the shooting schedule and the storyline.  And we review the logistical hurdles the production faced and how that limited the use of extras and locations.  Bob also shares stories of the filming of the final scenes with the Sam and Dean characters, and the last shot with the cast and crew on the bridge.And finally, Bob shares with us some of his thoughts as he looks back a year later.Otaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers.  Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals.  www.otakumedia.tvThe Sitcom StudyWelcome to the Sitcom Study, where we contemplate the TV shows we grew up with and...Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify The Extras Facebook pageThe Extras Twitter Warner Archive & Warner Bros Catalog GroupOtaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals. www.otakumedia.tv

Hi, I'm film historian and author John Fricke. I've written books about Judy Garland and the Wizard of Oz movie, and you're listening to The Extras. Hello and welcome to The Extras, where we take you behind the scenes of your favorite TV shows, movies, and animation, and their release on digital, DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K, or your favorite streaming site. I'm Tim Millard, your host. and their release on digital, DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K, or your favorite streaming site. I'm Tim Millard, your host.

This podcast is part two of my discussion with film and TV producer and director Bob Singer. I had the privilege to work with Bob on the home entertainment extras for the hit TV show Supernatural for 12 seasons. In part one, we reviewed Bob's star-studded career working on films The Night Strangler and Stephen King's Cujo, a 1990s hit TV series Midnight Caller, and Lois and Clark, The New Adventures of Superman. And then we discussed Bob's time as co-showrunner on the show Supernatural and his memories of working with his fellow showrunners. If you haven't yet had the chance to listen to that episode, I highly recommend you do so when you get the chance. That's episode 25.

In part two today, we will take a look at the classic rock music in the series, as that was an extra we were all excited to create for the box set, but unfortunately never had the chance to complete due to the pandemic restrictions. And we will hear from Bob his memories of the final season and his thoughts as he looks back now that it has been one year since the series finale. Well, before we talk about the last season, I did want to go back and discuss a topic that we had pitched to you and Andrew, a concept for the music and the show that we were hoping to do for the series box set extras. I was probably most disappointed that we didn't get to do this extra. I think you were jazzed for it too, so it was too bad. Eric Kripke established the classic rock element of the show right off the bat

in the original concept for the show. I think the pilot included the Allman Brothers song Ramblin' Man as well as the ACDC classic Back in Black. What did you think when you saw that pilot and heard the way the music was used? I thought it was great. It was sort of right in my musical wheelhouse. This was the music I listened to. This was my favorite kind of music. So again, that was something where I, you know, I loved the way Nutter shot the pilot. I thought the two guys were fantastic and I loved the soundtrack. And I said, God, it would really be fun to work on this show ultimately i think sometimes eric's idea of what's classic rock and what's my idea of classic rock since we are years apart you know a little different but picking the music for for an

episode was always great fun you know eric would come in with an idea i'd come in with an idea phil segreja would have a great idea. And we'd sort of audition different records for, you know, for a particular scene and decide which one really, you know, we thought worked the best. Right. But because you really had three people who were totally steeped in the knowledge of this kind of music. Plus Alex Budsavis, who was our music supervisor, great taste and knew everything. That was a really a fun part of doing the show was picking the song. We'll talk a little bit about working with Alex. How did that come together? You guys would picture some songs. How would that work? We would, you know, cause we didn't always know that, you know,

the song that we had picked, whether we could actually buy it, or if we could buy it, whether we could actually afford it. So we would say to Alex, could you, we have a Led Zeppelin song here, what do you think? And she goes, you guys can't afford Led Zeppelin. Then she would come up with some alternatives for us. We might use the alternatives or we might say

well, in that spirit, maybe we should go with this song. You come to realize after a while, there's certain bands that you know you can get and you're not going to have to spend a fortune for. Norman Brothers being one of them. Bob Seger, who I always think his music is so evocative. That's always

kind of a go-to for me. But we work in concert with Alex to come up with just the right song. On top of that, other than really recognizable songs, Alex could dip into these libraries of lesser known stuff, but stuff that would seem to fit our mode. Right. So she knew what we wanted and would be very helpful in A, getting maybe the song we wanted, but B, when we couldn't afford three songs in a show, She would come up with stuff that was not particularly well-known,

but fit the show perfectly. One of my favorite songs from season one is in episode 112, Faith. And that's where you use the Blue Oyster Cult song, Don't Fear the Reaper. I really liked that episode and loved the use of the song. Do you remember how that song was chosen? That seemed unnatural to us. I mean, I forgot who came up with Don't Fear the Reaper, but we all went, oh yeah.

That was an easy one. Faith is one of my favorite episodes. The genesis of that is, I had a teaser. I said, we're supposed to do a teaser in which Dean gets mortally wounded and needs it looks like he's going to

die. And we don't know like he's going to die. And we don't know how to not have him die. And that was a kicking off point for that. And Sarah and her partner wrote that. And it was one of my favorite episodes. And I remember we were at a Paley Fest or something. And Eric was talking and he was saying, somebody asked about how we work together. And Eric was talking and he was saying, somebody asked about how we work together. And Eric said, my favorite scene is when the guy gets his hand stuck down a sinkerator and the guy, the evil guy turns the sinkerator on.

And Bob's favorite moment is when the girl who has cancer and faith says to Dean, because Dean says he doesn't really believe in that too much. Right. And he says, you know, hoaxed it. She, she'll be all right. And she says something to the effect of, I thought you're showing faith, which is,

you know, something new for you. And it's just a sweet moment between the two of them. And Eric would say, that's Bob's favorite scene. So between the two of us, when we blend what we like to do, you know,

that's, that's kind of what makes the show go. Yeah. I blend what we like to do, you know, that's kind of what makes the show go. Yeah, I just. Eric used to say, you know, we make the show adult. Right. Well, that's a that's a great example from season one of music that just fits so well. The first use of the Kansas song Carry On Wayward Son was in the recap of the season two finale episode All Hell Breaks Loose Part Two. Do you remember the story of why you chose that song?

Not really. I mean, you know, we just knew that it fit and, you know, Wayward Sons. Right. It's not a reach. I don't think we ever knew when we did that the first time what it would become, that we'd constantly go back to it and use it for that thing. But it's the way we would kick off a season. It worked so well that first time. We said, we just should just keep doing that.

And Kansas was great. Right. What was it like working with Kansas once they kind of knew that you were using it more than just one episode? You know, it was easy. I mean, you know, it was affordable for us. It was a perfect song for that stuff. And I think it kind of helped them in a way.

Because they would go out touring and whatnot. And I think our audience would sort of show up for Candice's concert. And they were really nice guys. And then when they came and did Comic-Con, we really sort of got close to them and got to meet them in person. And it was, you know, I don't know if you ever saw the video of that, but the place went crazy. It was fantastic. And I went out, a couple of us went out, and we were going to go on right after them.

But I said, I don't want to see this backstage. I had to go out in the audience and kind of get the whole feel of it. And as soon as they were done, we had to rush back backstage and get in to go on stage. I recall that. They're really sweet guys. They're really nice. Yeah, I recall that. I was standing there and we were filming and I was blown away as well as the whole audience.

Just the way it came on, the surprise, everything. So then I followed up with Alex Pat Savas and I said to her, what's the chance that we can afford the music rights so that we can put that performance, because it was videotaped because it was in Hall H, put that on the release for home entertainment. And so she goes, well, let me check. And long story short, Kansas was great to work with. It cost me a lot more than I would usually spend for the home entertainment, but they were really great and made it affordable so that we could do that. So that is available on that season as part of the extras so that everybody can

kind of get a sense of what it was like to be there. And so my experience in working with them was also great. Yeah, no, they were really, really good guys. And I assume we'll get to what was supposed to happen the last episode. But yeah, we'll wait on that for a second. I did want to also talk about composers Jay Gruska and Chris Lennox. Maybe you can tell us about working with them and how their score added to the show. Well, early on, right before we scored anything, you know, and Erica and I were talking about, you know, composers. And I had worked with Jay since Lois and Clark.

He was the composer on Lois and Clark when I got there. And he was one of the few people that I actually kept. Right. I love Jay. And Chris and Eric had been friends. I think they knew each other at USC. Yeah, at film school, right. He said, well, I really like you, Jay. And I really like. And Chris and Eric have been friends, and I think they knew each other at USC. Yeah, at film school, right. He said, well, I really like you as Jay,

and I really like you as Chris. And I said, well, why don't we alternate them? Which would, you know, give them actually more time to write these particular scores. You know, I think you'll be happy with Jay. I'm sure I'll be happy with Chris. And that's what we did. And, you know, they were both terrific.

You know, I can't, I would never say that one score was better than another, you know, or that Jay's were better than Chris's or vice versa. You know, they both got into the spirit of what it was we wanted. Timely, always just spot on. We'd always be happy and both very open. You know, like you would go to a mix and you'd hear a cue and you know like you know can we do this or do that or whatever and they're just go in there and say well that's on a different stem so we can you know raise this and they were just both great

to work with because i got nothing but the hires you know i mean jay has worked with me for years and chris and i became quite close so how would you then put in maybe what a temp track of a song and then they could hear that and they could know what kind of song or, or sound you were going for in that episode? How did that work? Well, the editors, um, and we were lucky with an editor. Well, I'm lucky we hired good editors, you know, when the editors would show us a cut, it was never dry. They would always put in music.

You know, in some places they would put it in and say, well, that really works. Other places you say, well, I think this needs music. But, you know, so when we would see it basically the first time, there would be music in it that the editors had found from other sources. We had no problem playing that music for Jay and Chris.

This is what we want it to feel like. And they thought that was actually very helpful of the direction they should take. So again, that was something that, and we don't necessarily always use the music that the editors would put in. You say, well, let's look for another song here. Let's look for another cue. I think the cue should be more melodic and less staccato or, you know, whatever you would tell them. But the ones that we would show to Chris and Jay were

pretty much spot on, at least a feel of what we wanted and have a song in there that we would hope to get. Right. I did a podcast with the season 15 editors, Jimmy Pickle, Don Cook, John Fitzpatrick, and they talked a lot about the music. And one of the things that they said that you might find interesting is that trying to get you and Phil to like the tracks they put in was a big deal. Like if you guys gave them, yeah, yeah, that's a good one. And you would leave it in, you know, through the rest of the rough cut process. That was a win for them. And that was kind of something that was pretty important to them.

Yeah. And I think, you know, very quickly they kind of got where our taste was. Right. You know, so they would go there. But, you know, all three of those guys and Nicole Bear before she left. Right. It was also really good with the music. So generally, I think we were, you know, they were close most of the time.

Right. Really good taste and really good editors and great fun to work with, you know, going into the editing room. And when I think about it, you know, I mean, Phil and I worked together since 1988. He was one of the editors on Midnight Caller. Wow. Yeah, so we go way, way back. I started him as a director. But we would just have a good time in the editing room because our visions are pretty similar.

Phil is a fantastic cutter. because our visions are pretty similar. Phil was a fantastic cutter. And basically the way we would work, which was good for me, is that the editors would do a cut. They would show it to Phil first. I would say, oh, Phil, you take your pass first. Then bring me into the room.

And Phil was so good that my input would be in sort of the smaller things, not the big picture, because Phil had really gotten it down into a place where it was very good. But then, you know, the give and take in an editing room is really a fun part of the job. You know, suppose we try this or go to this shot or suppose we cut this scene all together. You know, those are always very good good productive conversations if you're working with people that you trust and who trust you so and you know we always had that so yeah for fans who want to hear a little bit more about what it was like to be an editor on season 15 check out the very first podcast episode and you will hear from uh jimmy don and john it's a great episode and they talk about you and phil and just uh how you guys work together and just how much fun they had all those years. But especially that last year, too.

And then, of course, all the differences of the last season. You'll have to give me the name of this podcast that I'm speaking of. I can look it up. Before we move off of the music, there were a couple other things that I thought were really fun. I wanted to ask you about one of the scenes that Jeff Maynard, my collaborator on the extras, he just really wanted to ask you about if we had done that extra was from season five, the episode Dark Side of the Moon, where you use Bob Dylan's knocking on heaven's door. Do you remember that? Dean is in the car on a deserted highway. Young Sammy shows up with fireworks.

They light off the fireworks. Young Sammy hugs him. It's just a great scene. I remember the scene. Frankly, I don't remember we did knocking on heaven's door, but it sounds perfect. Yeah, it's a good one. It's a really good one. And then the other one I wanted to ask you about was in season 11,

the baby episode where you use Bob Seger's night moves. What do you remember from that? Well, as I said before, I, you know, Seger is my go-to. Yeah. There's always a Seger song you can use. Night move is just iconic. I think that was his first big hit, Rock of his career. And again, I just kind of a

natural for that scene. You wouldn't have to... I'm not sure exactly who came up with Night Moves, but I remember everybody went, yeah, great. Can we get that? Sure. Let's go. Yeah. Well, I know the story there. That was Robbie Thompson who wrote that episode. He talks

in the extra that we have for the baby episode that season. So Robbie, when he was pitching to you and Jeremy said, what do you think of maybe Night Moves? And his memory was that you looked at him and said, Bob Seger is one of the top 10 greatest rock writers of all time. And then he put that in the description into the script so that everybody would know. And then it ended up being the line in the episode that Jensen says, not exactly that line, but just a riff on that line. And, you know, Robbie's from Detroit, so that's where, you know, that's where Seeger's from. So he has a deeper connection there. Right.

Kind of the last thing I want to mention is that Jensen Ackles sang a few times in the series. I mean, in season two, in the Simon Said episode, he sings the REO Speedwagon song Can't Fight This Feeling. In season three,

he has an outtake where he's singing Eye of the Tiger. That was great. When we saw that in Dally's, I don't know what the hell he was thinking,

but they turned the camera on and boy, he just went for it. It was fantastic. And you can find, you know, fans, you can find that. You just Google it. You can find it on YouTube. In the seventh season, he sings I'm All Out of Love by Air Supply. What do you remember about some of those moments with Jensen? I mean, you know, was those just kind of off the cuff or how did those come about?

Totally off the cuff. He just gets the feeling and off he goes. Jensen is a very good singer in his own right. He's even doing some recording now. But if you want to loosen a set up,

Jensen is the guy to do that for you. It was such a family up there there was never any question that he would just do stuff and, you know, and it would just loosen the crew up. And I tried to do that as much myself as I could when I would be up there directing. Like one time I just started banging my foot and clapping my hands to basically We Will Rock You, the Queen song.

And everybody started banging their foot and clapping their hands, and we sang the entire crew, We Will Rock You. Right. And you just take those five minutes, and it makes the 14-hour day go a lot quicker. Yeah. So you're just kind of releasing a steam valve. Everybody just kind of gets's like a releasing a steam valve you know yeah everybody just kind of gets kind of a little mellow and then you go you go about your work and then when jensen would do

this stuff it was uh it had the same effect it was you know and he's great at it i mean he's so funny right well i know that for the rap parties you guys also had a band you had the impalas i think you played as well in the band and jensen sang and i mean a lot of the crew members came out of the woodworks that that played different instruments it was quite a family affair there for the music and the musicians uh yeah and you know and we had some really good musicians that were crew guys you know i mean the drummer was a set deck guy the one of the guitar players was another set guy another guitar player was a sound boom man the keyboard player was the onset carpenter and we used to have a great time rehearsing because

we knew we were going to do these gigs for rap parties or the 300th party or whatever it was. Yeah. And the rehearsals were always fun. And I love those guys, and they're really good musicians. Yeah. I mean, I've played with quite a few good musicians over the years. These guys were good. Well, I have a few rapid round questions for you about the music.

First up, what was your favorite song used in the series? Oh, well, I mean, this is the obvious one, but, you know, Carry On. Yeah, okay. For sure.

What was the best use of a song in an episode? Well, you reminded me of this, but I think about it, Don't Fear the Reaper was probably as good as we're probably going to do.

Yeah, yeah. Who had the final say on a song being used in an episode i'd like to think me um but again i i as i said you know between eric and phil and then even when eric left for phil and myself john showalter in the last year, also really good with music. I mean, I hold off a story on music until you want to talk about the last episode, but there was an interesting thing there. So there weren't a whole lot of disagreements, but I would say

probably the final word would be mine. And what would be the top three songs on your Supernatural playlist? Well, I don't know. and what would be the top three songs on your supernatural playlist well um well clearly carry on my way with the sun um i think night moves was uh great and um god it's 15 years so hard um oh well what was the one i used it was another seager song and he loves the last to know not a 15 years is so hard. Oh, well, what was the one I used?

It was another Seeger song. It loves the last to know. Not a Seeger hit. It was an album cut that I always liked that I actually used in Midnight Caller many, many years ago. And we used it, I think, in the last season, and I thought it worked really well. Well, Bob, now I wanted to look back and talk about that last season of Supernatural.

When this podcast airs, it will be a year from the finale. So looking back, what stands out in your memory about that last season? Stay with us. We'll be right back. Hi, this is Tim Millard, host of The Extras Podcast. And I wanted to let you know that we have a new private Facebook group

for fans of the Warner Archive and Warner Brothers Catalog physical media releases. So if that interests you, you can find the link on our Facebook page or look for the link in the podcast show notes. Facebook page or look for the link in the podcast show notes. I think, well, A, we knew it was going to be the last season.

That had been decided. So we had a clear goal of where we wanted to go, what stories we wanted to wrap up. We had a lot of wrapping up to do because we introduced so many important characters over the years that they deserve a finality. So probably more than any season, I can remember, we set such a specific direction of where we wanted to go. And unlike other seasons, we knew where we wanted to end. Because we'd always do these cliffhangers. And frankly, we never knew how we were going to solve them.

We just did a cliffhanger and said, all right, we'll figure it out later. You know, that generally worked out okay. But this was a season in which we knew where we wanted to solve them? We did a cliffhanger and said, all right, we'll figure it out later. You know, that generally worked out okay. But this was a season which we knew where we wanted to go. And we had a clear path and the writers knew exactly where we wanted to go. And it was not a difficult season

or breaking story at all. We were really buttoned up. Talk a little bit about bringing in Jared and Jensen, flying them into LA. You met with them and you talked to them about how it was all going to end. Yeah. I mean, they were concerned, obviously, that they wanted the last season like all of us. You know, once we decided what was going to be the last season, what is it we're going to do? So they came in and we sat down

and we talked to them and they were mostly on board about what we wanted to do. A little skeptical in the beginning. And I remember that Jensen had called eric and said what do you think about this and eric said what are you crazy that's fucking great that was that but we always had a very good relationship with the guys there was no actor tantrums or problems about oh i don't like this script or i wouldn't say this line or or that never, 15 years, that never happened. If they ever had notes on stuff, it was always done respectfully. We respected their opinion and there was never any acrimony ever in the entire 15 years. Yeah. Well, the season was going along just fine. And then, then we had the COVID pandemic hit

and that was unexpected. It shut down production. I think you were one day into production of episode 19 and everything shut down. Take us through that and what was happening then. Well, I remember I flew up. John was shooting, I think he shot one day on episode 19 as an episode that Eugenie wrote, and she was going to be there on set. And I went in to prep my first day, and we shut the show down that day. You know, the pandemic was just raging.

You know, when you're that close to the end and you have this kind of grand plan of what it is you want to do, and then that gets put on hold. And frankly, we had no idea whether we were ever going to finish. You know, everybody was saying, oh, no, we're going to finish, we're going to finish, we're going to finish. But no one knew when we were going to finish, what the finish would look like. It was, you know, it was really like being in limbo. And when you invested 15 years in something and you, you know, you're finally there to have that rug pulled out from under you, it was crazy.

Now, listen, I always said in the grand scheme of things, people are dying. I mean, it's a terrible, terrible thing. A TV show was pretty insignificant at that point. But, you know, having gone as far as we had gone, and not knowing of would we ever finish it, what does the future hold, was an odd feeling. So we all came home and just kind of,

we had some work to do, posting episodes. That was done in a way that was weird because we couldn't go into our offices our normal cutting rooms they shut that building down they put us in another place who was allowed to actually go into the editing room what the rules of the editing room were when we would have our spotting sessions for sound effects and music we couldn't all be in the same room which that was the way you actually do these things it was was all done on Zoom, which was kind of strange. Normally you would look at these things with a good sound system and whatever, but now people are doing it off their computer. It was an odd way to work.

And again, we're doing that as we're finishing these episodes, but we don't even know if we're ever going to get to the real finish line. So it was hard. Did you and Andrew have some conversations about how, what were some of the options we're going to be looking at, or did you just kind of need to wait to hear back from the studio? Yeah, we had to wait to hear back. We didn't know what, if, when, you know, we knew what we wanted to do, but I'm not even sure we had much discussions about alternatives because we didn't know what, if we ever got back, what shooting would look like, what our restrictions would be. All this was up in the air and you couldn't get an answer about anything. No one would, you know, all we heard from the studio was you're going to finish.

Right. That was it. So tell us a little bit about the plan for the final episode and then how that plan just kind of blew up because of the production restrictions and how you had to make some changes well the plan was up until that very last stuff it was kind of you know where dean was gonna die go to heaven and then play it out the way it did but basically the last thing we're gonna do was that Jerry was going to build this great Harvell set. I don't know if you remember, but that was the Roadhouse set. And we're going to actually make it bigger.

And we were going to populate it with a lot of cast members who were good people who had passed away. And they were all going to be there in heaven. And this was Dean's Heaven. And they were all going to be there in heaven. And this was Dean's Heaven. And on stage at Harvell's in Dean's Heaven was Kansas playing Carry On My Wayward Son live. That was our big finale. Right. and Charlie and all these people that over the years, Bobby, they would all be there at that roadhouse. And that was Dean's heaven that Sam would join in that. So it was going to be expensive, you know, getting all those people to Vancouver, getting Kansas to come in, getting their equipment in. And literally over the course of the year, we had sort of been saving up to do this.

There were episodes which we purposely did that weren't going to cost a lot so we could bank some of this money so we could have this grand finale. And we were always excited about that. Then the pandemic hit and we're waiting and we're waiting and we're waiting. And finally we get, okay, gee, you can go, but here are some of the restrictions. People coming to Canada would have to quarantine. So now you can say, well, God, to an actor who's going to have two lines in this grand finale, you want him to come to Canada as in the hotel room for 10 days. The quarantine wasn't just for three days. We're talking 10 days, right? Yeah. Yeah. It was long. Yeah. Now we're talking about, you know,

putting people in hotels for 10 days, but you know, we can't even afford that. I mean, how are you going to do that to get the band over the border to get them to, I mean, it was just, it became impossible to do. And it was, it was kind of crushing. You also had restrictions on in any scene, how many extras you could have. I think it was a maximum of 40 extras in a scene. John Showalter had a big street scene. He had to shoot it incredibly creatively to make 40 people look like a lot more.

I had a scene at this Pi Festival. Again, I had 40 people. It was just, you know, you just needed more and you tried to figure out ways around it and you look at the film and you say, well, that's okay. The shooting was difficult.

You know, I remember when Eugenie was on Showalter's set, right, because she was a producer and she was allowed to be on the set. I was in prep. I wasn't allowed to go to that set because I wasn't on the shooting company. Those were some of the kinds of rules you had. Um, no one who worked outside, whether they were the, you know,

the teamsters or the lady in the, uh, the woman in the wardrobe trailer or they weren't allowed on set. Mass, you know, the whole thing. It was, and everybody got into the spirit of it and it actually went smoothly, but it was just an odd way to go about this.

And then we had to come up with an alternate ending. Right. You know, to the big Harvell's roadhouse scene that didn't entail a lot of people. And so, you know,

we came up with the ending and we came up with, I thought it was very good, emotional, and it was, it was nice. It was very nice and I think it did,

it wrapped up the show nicely. Yeah. And the guys were, and it was the last thing we shot on the episode, the scene on the bridge in heaven.

Right. It was the very last thing we shot. So there was a real emotion there. Right. Yeah. It wasn't just acting. It was real emotion. And so I was happy with that scene and I thought the guys did great.

And we did get Jim Beaver up there to have his, have a scene with Jensen, but it was not what we had envisioned from the beginning. I mean, that scene, that last scene at the roadhouse was, it was always intended. It was intended from our first day of meeting with the writers. You know, that's what you're going for. And then it just kind of rug gets pulled out from underneath you. It was, you know, we were happy with the ending, but, you know, we were happy with the ending, but you know, we kind of missed what we were going to do. Well, you directed, I think, 48 episodes of Supernatural over the 15 seasons. And quite often it was the first and the last episodes of the season. And here you are,

you're, you're the director now on Carry On, the very last episode of the series. How did you feel going into it? And then while you were there, as the days were counting off? We used to talk about this in the office as the days were counting off. It sort of became real to us as a writer would finish and we would see that writer packing up in their office and leaving. And we know this is it. They're not coming back. They're done. So that idea started to kind of build you know during the course of the year i think we all just had our noses to the grindstone and we're just churning out the work and you know we didn't talk about it much but once people started leaving right it became more real. And going to shoot the last couple of episodes was emotional, but it was in a way.

How can I put this? I was very close to I mean, the crew was very close to people who just really loved each other on this crew. It really was a family. And so there was like a lot of, you know, you would hug somebody at the end of the day and say, great job today. And the actors, you know, I would hug Jensen and hug Jared. I mean, we were a huggy bunch. Couldn't do that. Weren't allowed to do that.

So, you know, you felt like you were, these last episodes are kind of missing out on some of the emotional good stuff that you would have liked. So it was kind of weird in that way. But again, everybody just sort of understood the rules. We played by the rules. We got out of there without, you know, we didn't have one COVID incident in the last two episodes. To Warner Brothers credit, what they had set up testing

wise and how you had to get tested and so forth and so on really worked. People did what they were supposed to do. And we got out of there without not only not having to shut down, but without anybody getting sick. It was pretty remarkable. Yeah. There's two scenes that I want to ask you about. The first one is in the barn when Dean dies. Take us through the filming of that scene. That scene, we probably had more discussion about the Dean dying than any other scene I can remember in the show. But remember, we had to do a whole kind of big fight scene prior to that in the barn. fight scene prior to that in the barn. But we had discussions about, we knew he was going to get kind of stabbed in the back by this thing on the wall. But whether Jared

should pull him off of that and do they play the scene on the ground, whatever. Jensen was pretty adamant that he wanted to not be taken off the post. And I sort of had to change my thinking of how to shoot or what I had in mind to accommodate that. Also, we did a bit of rewriting when we were up there. We would send what we wanted to do down to Andrew and I would talk with Andrew on the phone about changes that the guys wanted to make. Jensen's instincts are generally 100%. And then, you know, when we shot it, I thought they were both so good.

I mean, literally you had people on the set in tears. I mean, no question about it. Camera people, anybody watching on the monitor. It was very moving. And they did, they both did a great job. And you didn't know how the audience

was going to react to that uh i think initially from the feedback that you get afterwards that people are going oh my god i can't believe they did that and then i think at the end they were i think they were okay with it but in the moment i think it really upset people yeah fortunately in the same episode you get the you get the resolution. Yeah. I mean, if it had been the end of that episode, that would have been just really hard for the fans. Oh, yeah, absolutely. You know, and the episode as a whole was really, I mean, you know, far from the best story we ever told. You know, we were just trying to, Andrew was just trying to get to a place where we could get them to get into a fight with these guys.

You know, we had some nice graphics and some good stuff. Andrew was just trying to get to a place where we could get them to get into a fight with these guys. You know, we had some nice graphics and some good stuff, but it was far from the scariest episode. It was far from the best story we ever told because we were just aiming to this moment. And I think once we got to that moment and then we did this stuff with sam through the years and all that i was very happy with that i thought that stuff was really good and i thought jared was terrific um the scene he plays where he's older and he pulls the car cover off a baby and sits in the car you know it's very moving i thought they did both guys just did fantastically my hope was that the audience would go along with what we were doing um the music at the pyre and then sam and the mental letters that cue we probably took longer trying to figure out what that cue should be and what we could afford to get. And finally, we ended up paying a lot of money

for Brothers in Arms. But I think it was, it really worked. It was a very mournful guitar. But for the longest time, we couldn't get, we couldn't get the rights to that. And then we were looking at other songs and there was a Tim Paxton song, I think, that was good. And now everybody has an opinion.

It was the hardest one we ever did of picking a song and finally you know we just kept saying just keep pounding on the Dire Straits people please let us get this song and we did and that I thought that was it really worked well

but yeah well the other scene I wanted to ask you about is that one on the bridge. And then after you shot that scene, you spoke to the cast and crew. What sticks out in your mind from that scene and that speech to the crew? had planned a whole other thing again, but we didn't have time in the episode to do it. But what I said was, okay, we're going to finish the show, we're going to have the boys along, the drone shot, the boys alone

on the bridge of beautiful heaven, right? And I got all the crew together and Darren Jensen said, you know, as a family, we want to thank the fans for 15 years and we pulled back and we had the crew out on the bridge waving goodbye to the fans. We had everybody together for that moment.

That was something that I really wanted to do. These people had given us so much, you know, and so many of these people have been there with us forever that I wanted them somehow acknowledged on film. Yeah. So we did that and I, you know, and I thought that was, it was nice and then we thought, okay, that's it. That's a wrap, right?

And what I said to the thing was I wanted to acknowledge everyone for everything they've done, but specifically people who have been there from the beginning. And that would be Serge, our DP, Jerry Wanek, production designer, Kevin Parks, one of our ADs, and a number of other people who had been there from the beginning. And I did that, and I said, these are people I especially want to thank, but I want to thank everybody. This has been a hard row to hoe this last episode, given all the restrictions we've had.

But you guys were great, and I can't thank you enough. And then Jensen spoke and Jared spoke. And then against the rules, there was a lot of hugging. Yeah. Well, that's a poignant moment. We were fortunate enough to have a crew there filming B-roll that are on the extras on the season 15 in box set for fans who have not seen that footage.

Hopefully you can get a chance to see that. It's a great moment and a great speech you had for the crew and the cast. And just seeing everybody in that, you know, kind of wrap is really neat footage. Supernatural was a great training ground for a lot of writers and showrunners who have gone on to great success. What do you credit that to other than yourself? Well, I think that, let me put this way, from the beginning, right, both Eric and I were, we're not easy on writers. I think in the first five seasons, or at least surely the first four, I think we've let at least one writer

go every season because they weren't up to snuff. So over a period of time, I think we really got good people. And you could even

newer writers, younger people, but you could, you know, they had talent. I think one reason they've gone on to do well

is we saw through the way Eric and I worked and then with Jeremy and Sarah, kind through the way Eric and I worked. And then with Jeremy and Sarah, kind of the way a show should be run. That's not just me, that's Eric.

What it takes to do, you don't have to work in chaos. So many TV shows work in chaos. I can't work in chaos. It's not productive and it's awful. But I see that that's the way a lot of shows are.

So I think that these people who've gone on have taken, you know, since this may have even been like the first or second show they worked on,

the way it can be done in an orderly fashion and you can be as creative as you want, you know, but you don't have to stay there until 11 o'clock every night and burn people out.

So I think they pick that up from the system that we created. Their writing talent was there. Maybe they learned to refine it a little bit just through doing so many scripts on Supernatural. But these are all good writers. They're always going to be good writers. So I just think the process that we use is probably the thing that was most helpful to them. And what are you most proud of from your years on Supernatural?

I think that we never, in 15 years, that we never settled, that we never said, well, that's good enough. That we really made a concerted effort to be fresh, to tell these stories, not repeat ourselves, bring in interesting guest stars, and keep the quality of the show up. We never got passive. We never got, well, if it's good enough, I can rent out 12 here.

Who gives a shit? That was never the way we went about business. And I think the reason we went 15 years is because it was always like season one. You got to really put your best feet forward. So that's what I think I'm most proud of is that I think the quality of the show was there from beginning to end. Well, it's been a year. What do you miss the most? do you miss the most?

Well, you know, oddly enough, I think what I miss the most is because I can't be there is going to Vancouver. I made a lot of good friends. They truly felt like family to me. You know, I said, I think at maybe the 200th party or, you know, we had to give a little speech. And I said, every time I fly into Vancouver and the plane lands, I feel like I've come home. That's the way these people made me feel like I was one of them. And I was I was part of this family, this Canadian Vancouver family.

And since I haven't been able to go back there or see these people, and again, I love directing and I haven't done that. So that's, I think, what I miss the most. You know, I can talk to Eric. People down here, I can have some Congress with.

I can't do that with the Vancouver people. So I miss them. I miss them a lot. Well, Bob, it's been a real pleasure having you on the podcast to talk supernatural and create for the podcast, a little semblance of the extras.

We just didn't have a chance to do for the box set. I've said many times on this podcast, that supernatural was my absolute favorite show that I had the chance to work with in my time at Warner Brothers. And most of that is due to you and the great team you assembled both in Los Angeles, Burbank specifically, and of course, in Vancouver. Everybody was always so welcoming for us to do the extras and the behind the scenes and everything. And I think that really fed the fans and some of their thirst to see more of the behind the scenes as well. So it's been a privilege to have you on the podcast today. Well, I'm glad I could do it. And, you know, you're great at what you do, Tim. So it was an easy, easy call for me to join you.

Thank you so much. Thanks again to executive producer and director Bob Singer for joining the podcast so that we could create a brief form of the extras that we didn't get a chance to produce for the series box set release. I can't stress just how much I respect his work on the TV series Supernatural. I am just one of many who have benefited from his steady leadership and the example he set on how to run a production. I also wanted to let you know, if you're interested in Supernatural episodes, we will be having some more coming up where we talk about the famous car, Baby. So keep an eye out for that in the coming weeks ahead.

For those of you interested in learning more about what was discussed in the show today and our other Supernatural podcasts, there will be detailed information on the website at www.theextras.tv. Also follow the show on Facebook or Twitter at The Extras TV or Instagram at The Extras.TV to stay up to date on the latest episodes and for exclusive images and behind the scenes information about the episodes and upcoming guests. And if you're enjoying the show,

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