The Extras - "The Six Million Dollar Man" and Classic TV with Herbie J Pilato

Episode Date: June 20, 2022

Writer/producer and television historian Herbie J Pilato joins the podcast to discuss his love of classic TV and his extras on the new Blu-ray release of THE SIX MILLION DOLLAR MAN: THE COMPLETE SERIES.Pilato’s extensive list of critically-acclaimed, media tie-in books includes THE BIONIC BOOK, MARY: THE MARY TYLER MOORE STORY, TWITCH UPON A STAR: THE BEWITCHED LIFE AND CAREER OF ELIZABETH MONTGOMERY and many more. His upcoming new books include RETRO ACTIVE TELEVISION: AN IN-DEPTH PERSPECTIVE OF CLASSIC TV'S SOCIAL CIRCUITRY, THE 12 BEST SECRETS OF CHRISTMAS: A TREASURE HOUSE OF DECEMBER MEMORIES REVEALED, biographies of Sean Connery and Diana Rigg, and a combined book about George Lucas and Steven Spielberg.Buy: The Six Million Dollar Man: Complete Series Blu-raywww.herbiejpilato.comFollow Herbie on social media: FacebookOtaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers.  Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals.  www.otakumedia.tvThe Sitcom StudyWelcome to the Sitcom Study, where we contemplate the TV shows we grew up with and...Listen on: Apple Podcasts   Spotify The Extras Facebook pageThe Extras Twitter Warner Archive & Warner Bros Catalog GroupOtaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals. www.otakumedia.tv

Hi, I'm film historian and author John Fricke. I've written books about Judy Garland and the Wizard of Oz movie, and you're listening to The Extras. Hello and welcome to The Extras, where we take you behind the scenes of your favorite TV shows, movies, and animation, and they're released on digital, DVD, Blu-ray, and 4K, or your favorite streaming site. I'm Tim Millard, your host. Today, I have a very special guest on the podcast to talk about his work

on the new Blu-ray release from Shout Factory of the $6 million man, The Complete Series. However, I think our discussion will cover a number of classic television shows. He is a writer, producer, and TV personality with an extensive list of TV credits, including Bravo's hit five-part series, The 100 Greatest TV Characters, Bewitched, The E-True Hollywood Story, and A&E's biography of Lee Majors. He has also served as a consulting producer and on-screen cultural commentator on various classic TV DVD extras for Sony, NBCUnivers Universal, and Warner Brothers. His list of critically acclaimed media tie-in books includes Mary the Mary Tyler Moore Story,

Twitch Upon a Star, The Bewitched Life and Career of Elizabeth Montgomery, and The Bionic Book, The Six Million Dollar Man and the Bionic Woman Reconstructed. He also hosts his own TV talk show, which airs on Amazon Prime and Shout Factory TV, titled Then Again with Herbie J. Palato. Herbie, welcome to The Extras. Well, thank you so much, Tim. Really great to be here. It's always great to talk about Steve and Jamie. Yeah, we're probably similar in age. We grew up, you know, during that era. So I think when it comes to the $6 million man and the bionic woman, I'm thinking playground, right? That's who you would go out.

You would, you know, those are the fun. In my eighth grade seat, I would do it slow motion. And Miss Tanzania used to drive her crazy. Herbie, stop running in slow motion. And, of course, the sound effect was something that you had to do as you were doing it. And my Miss Tanzania used to drive her crazy. Herbie, stop running in slow motion. And of course, the sound effect was something that you had to do as you were doing it. Which I do in the extras, by the way. That's terrific. And for those listening on the podcast, they may not be able to see you, but you're wearing some appropriate attire today.

Yes, it is. A brand new blue and white sweats like Steve wore. Like Steve wore. Yeah, right. Well, for our listeners, I did want to kind of go back a little bit and talk about the early part of your career. And I know when I was looking at your website and everything, you talk about your early career as an NBC page back in 1984. Why don't you take us back there and tell us a little bit about how that all kind of came about? How did you become an NBC page? Well, I wanted to be an actor and I, you know, I went to school for acting at Nazareth College, went on to UCLA on like a visiting student program in the fall of 82 and went back to Nazareth, graduated and then made the formal move back to L.A. the following fall. I always had heard that working as a page, specifically as an NBC page, as opposed to a CBS or ABC page was a very prestigious thing

and that everybody wanted to do it. So I thought, well, let me do it. Let me try and get the job. So I went to a taping of family ties and, you know, sorry, Michael J. Fox. And I stopped a page. I didn't know anybody. I just stopped a page and said, I want to do what you do. And ultimately, six months later, he got me in and I got the job. When it was really not an easy, it's not, it wasn't an easy job, but it still isn't an easy job to get. You usually have to know somebody or knew somebody who knew somebody who knew somebody. I just met somebody that night and, you know, I made an impression, I guess. And he helped me get the job. Horace Smith, God bless him.

And was that here in LA or was that? Yeah, it was in LA. Yep. It was in LA. Okay. Yeah. I mean, a lot of the industry stories are, you know, right time, be in the right place, meet the right people and somebody gives you an opportunity.

And that's a lot of the story. Now, when you were a page, did I see something about a reference to the Johnny Carson show? Oh my gosh, yes. I worked so many different shows, but mostly the Tonight Show starring Johnny Carson a lot. They taped like Monday through Thursday at 5.30. And, you know, that was one

of the shows, but I did most, mostly I worked that show a lot. That's right there at the Burbank pages. Yeah. In beautiful downtown Burbank as Johnny used to say. Right. It was a lovely time. It was probably one of the best 18 months because you get like 18 months contract. You either move up or move out.

And it was a great, great time and it helped. That's really when I became interested in behind the scenes stuff, obviously. You know, the more technical aspects of the industry. And I really got tired of always going on auditions and seeing, you know, guys who look like me and, you know, a million Herbie J's in the room and it just got to be a drag. So I knew I had to gear to something else. So what would you call a highlight from that time of the NBC page era? Probably when it comes to stars and meeting celebrities, which is always fun. Farrah Fawcett, John Travolta, and Paul McCartney were three of the biggest stars that I met. As a matter of fact, John was on with Joan Rivers when she was subbing for Johnny. And she was having some party or something on stage during taping,

and his appearance was delayed. So they told me, Herbie, would you please go tell John Travolta he can't come on yet? I'm like, you want me to go tell John Travolta that he can't come on? So I'm like walking towards his dressing room door. You know, like in the Twilight Zone where things expand the vision. It's that kind of thing. And I go, Mr. Schwald, yeah.

So he comes out, he takes his hat off the door. I says, they don't need you yet. You need to wait. Oh, okay. And of course, he was such a huge star at that point. I mean, he was just huge. But for the sake of our conversation today, you did mention Farrah Fawcett. Farrah, she was just, I mean, when Farrah and Paul McCartney, because that was like usually in the, in the hallway, a working,

like seated where the hallway a working like seated where the red light flashes don't go in there and I was the one who guarded that door sometimes and the time when Farrah and John were there I happened to be what was it called COB which I don't know what that really

it's supposed to mean page in control or something and so I was mean page in control or something. And so that was the page in control or whatever it was called. And Farrah came walking by and Paul McCartney came walking by. And everybody regarding Farrah and Paul, everybody worked at NBC had to just visit that hallway because they knew they were going to be on. had to just visit that hallway because they knew they were going to be on. And so when Paul, when both Paul and Farrah would walk by,

you just saw this group of people just turn their head. Right. It was just amazing. Stunned. Paul McCartney, you know? Right. And Farrah, you know,

Farrah was a sweetheart. She was a doll. I did a show called Chasing Farrah where I kind of like played her number one fan. And it was a very exaggerated performance. And she was a sweetheart. And she said to me, how come we haven't met before? I mean, what? How come we haven't met before?

Right. So, I mean, I was a huge Farrah Fawcett, how come we haven't met before? Right. So, I mean, I was a huge Vera Fawcett fan in high school. So I brought my yearbook and I had her sign it. Oh, wow. Yeah. And of course, the feathered hair, the look that the Charlie's Angels created, so iconic from that 70s and then into the early 80s. 70s and then into the early 80s. She was the most beautiful, I think, in my personal opinion,

woman that I have ever met. And she was the most charismatic female celebrity, I think, in the history of entertainment. That's awesome to hear. Well, after that time as a page, that time as a page, you still did some acting. I did extras work, the extras, on General Hospital and Bold and the Beautiful. I was one of the waiters at Duke's Restaurant in the 80s on General Hospital.

And I did some Golden Girls and went back to work Golden Girls as a page. I used to be one of the pages that sat that show. When they filmed or when they taped at Sunset Gower Studios and then they moved to a different studio. So there I was a couple years after being on the show and I was reprimanded by Bea Arthur. You want to know why?

Why? I was chewing gum on the set and I i was like you know and she didn't say anything but she i saw her whisper to like the assistant director she's like and two seconds later the assistant director was like okay who has the gum and i called you out i i raised my hand like i was in you know grammar school i do i have the gum would you please throw it out in the bit sorry so it's very funny yeah well when you're on a you know when you're on a sitcom set like that right it's it's usually people keep very very quiet and uh they you kind of know when you have a chance. But when people are on stage and you just try to keep it very quiet.

It was distracting, you know, that here I was, this extra chewing gum. Right. That's exciting. But I had met Bea a couple times before and after that. I had met her on the streets of Santa Monica when I walked up there and she was doing a show called Amanda's by the Sea, which was in 82. And she was very nice. And then I greeted her. I was the page that greeted all the Golden Girls for their first promo party.

I was the one that had to go retrieve them. And Bea was very nervous, very unlike Dorothy from Golden Girls and unlike Maude. And they each looked like their cars. That's what I noticed. B drove a big black BMW. Rue drove a beige Mercedes. Betty White drove a mint Seville Cadillac. And Estelle Getty drove a Chevette.

The little details. True story. I can't make this up. It's all in my book, NBC and Me. My Life is a Page in a Book. Well, that's a great segue to talk about your writing. At some point, you started to write books. Was the Twitch Upon a Star the first one out there in 2012, or had you done before that? Actually, no. My first book was The Bewitched Book, which was about the show, the original show. What happened was I had written a reunion movie for Bewitched after I saw I Dream of Jeannie 15 years later, which was an NBC TV movie shortly after I left. And I thought, there's ever going to be a reunion movie about a blonde, magical woman and a moral, dark-haired guy,

it should be Bewitched, because Genie was kind of like a ripoff of Bewitched. I hate to say it, but it was. So I wrote a script on spec, got it to Bill Asher. He loved it. Got it to Elizabeth. You know, she was doing a new show for Bill that was going to be called Bewitched Again. She was going to pop in and introduce this new witch and then pop off forever. It was kind of amazing that she was going to do that.

But she didn't want to do the reunion. And I says, OK, well, then how about we do a book about the show, the original show? And then I became an author. Yeah, that was in what, 2012 then? No, that was in 1989. Oh, okay. I met Elizabeth in 1989 and the original Bewitched book came out in 1992. Ten years later, Twitch Upon a Star, her biography, my biography of her was published.

Right after that, then you did a number, a string of books. So I did the Bewitched book, then I revised Bewitched book as Bewitched Forever when Elizabeth died in 95. Then I did the Kung Fu Book of Wisdom, the Kung Fu Book of Cain, and then the Bionic book, the Life Goes On book about, you know, the amazing Chris Burke, excuse me. Then NBC and Me and My Life is a page in a book. Chris Burke, excuse me, then NBC and Me and My Life is a page in a book. So what kind of led you then to kind of say, okay, acting, I'm going to, I'm going to kind of move, move on from that and go into the writing. Well, I always liked to write as a kid. I always did.

I would write whenever I do those multiple exams or whatever that we had as kids, I always loved the, the essay parts. exams or whatever that we had as kids. I always loved the essay parts. Even when I directed plays in college, you'd have to keep a diary of what the director did. And I enjoyed writing in the diary more than the director. So I always liked writing. And it just seemed to be the natural progression of things after I did the Bewitched book. And also too, my parents were getting older at that time. And I wanted to go back to Rochester, New York, where I'm from and take care of them. So you could write anywhere. And that's where writing kind of just took over and producing too, because then I started doing

documentaries that were based on the shows that I wrote books about, like The Witch, Teacher Hollywood Story, and the biography of Lee Majors. And then Sci-Fi Channel hired me to do Sciography, which was a sci-fi version of really biography. And I was producing one sciography on Rod Serling from my apartment in Rochester, New York, because Rochester was close to Elmira, where he, Rochester, New York, because Rochester was close to Elmira, where he, Rod Serling was from. And that's how I got that job. It was kind of really amazing. In my little apartment in Rochester, I'm producing this documentary about Rod Serling, which never aired, unfortunately. But all these books were classic television focused, weren't they? Yeah, that was my, that was my thing. I mean, I grew up in the inner city of Rochester in the 60s. It was a tough neighborhood. I was a cute little kid and I used to get beat up all the time. It was tough. I was drawn to escapist television like Bewitched and, you know, the Six Million Dollar Man and the Bionic Woman because it offered an escape in Star Trek, you know, like many people did in the 60s and 70s. We were all looking for a magic solution.

You know, the Six Million Dollar Man and the Bionic Woman came along when we needed heroes. It was right after the Vietnam War. And, you know, we had not had anything like that since Batman. And it was because of Six Mill that, you know, Wonder Woman came about or the Incredible Hulk and they did Captain America and Spider-Man. All of that happened because of the $6 million man, not to mention Terminator later. Right, right. Well, that kind of is a good segue right into the book you wrote about that called The Bionic Book, which came out in 2015. And that was built as a, I like this, the way it's written up on Amazon, it's built as the cybernetic compedium to the $6 million man and

the bionic woman show. That's a fun way to say it. And what kind of then sparked you to write that book specifically? Stay with us. We'll be right back. Hi, this is Tim tim millard host of the extras podcast and i wanted to let you know that we have a new private facebook group for fans of the warner archive and warner brothers catalog physical media releases so if that interests you you can find the link on our facebook page or look for the link in the podcast show notes. After I did the Bewitched book, I, you know, the show to me, Samantha and Darren, they were, they were in love. They loved each other despite their differences. She was witch, she was mortal. And I liked the theme of the show, which was prejudice, you know, that Samantha was a witch in a mortal world and she could never really say that she was this witch because she would be a burner.

Just like she killed Jesus and Martin Luther King. And, you know, God forbid anyone comes out and says something wonderful about, you know, being different. So I wanted to continue that theme with Kung Fu, which was an Asian in a Western world, just like Samantha was a witch in a mortal world. And then I continued that thing with the bionics, which was Steve and Jamie were, you know, half machine, half man, half human, half woman. And I thought that really fit in with Kung Fu and Bewitched and Life Goes On afterwards, where Corky was at Down syndrome and

he was an outsider of sorts. So it just continued a theme. It seemed to be the regular, it seemed to follow a thread. And I didn't want to just write silly little trivia books, you know, because about what people thought, some people thought were silly little trivia shows, and they weren't. These shows were beautiful programs that made an impact in the lives of so many people. I mean, a lot of people fell in love and learned to love each other despite their differences because of a witch. A lot of people got into the scientific and medical fields because of the $6 million man and the Bionic Woman. What has been done with cybernetic limbs were inspired by the $6 million Man and the Bionic Woman. So I just wanted to really make those statements with those books and with those shows and

to prove that classic TV has a positive influence on society, which is one of my next books, by the way. Looks good in national light. Roger. BCS arm switch is on. Okay, Victor. Landing rocket arm switch is on. Here comes the throttle. Circuit breaker's in.

We have separation. Roger. Inboard and outboard, they're on. We're coming forward with the side stick. Oh, looks good. Roger. Inboard, downboard, they're on. We're coming forward with the side stick. Oh, that's good. Roger. I've got a blowout, BAMR 3. Get your pitch to zero.

Pitch is out, I can't hold altitude. Roger. Alpha hold us on. Trip's electric, emergency. Flight calm, I can't hold it. She's breaking up, she's breaking... Steve Austin. Astronaut. A man barely alive.

We can rebuild him. We have the technology. We can make him better than he was. Better. Stronger. Faster. Well, I should probably take a second just for any listeners who aren't totally familiar with the show, The Six Million Dollar Man. But one of the draws it had for me was the fact that it blended sci-fi and action adventure two of my favorites but it wasn't like star trek you know it wasn't straight sci-fi and it wasn't straight action it blended that the whole era of computers as well and technology growing

and the show is about a former astronaut who has an accident and a secret government agency called the osi rebuilds him with bionic limbs for the six million dollar man and then later on for the bionic woman. And this was a huge pop cultural hit in the 1970s. When you wrote your book and you looked at the show, what did you think why the show was so popular? Well, I think obviously as a kid, you like the sci-fi aspects, you like the superhero stuff, but I always felt that it was real. It was accessible. Martin Caden, who was a genius novelist, sci-fi novelist, who did the original Cyborg, he didn't turn this character into Superman. Steve was not Superman. Jamie was not Wonder Woman. These were people

who happened to be superheroes who were forced into the situation with limited powers. You know, Steve couldn't fly. He couldn't lift up a submarine. You know, Jamie couldn't fly. You know, Jamie couldn't fly. They had certain, only certain powers. And I really love that one of their arms was not bionic, which was a fault of the new Bionic Woman series, which they did later, where they made her all bionic. What helped Steve and Jamie still stay connected to their reality and what helped us as viewers connect with them from our living rooms is that they still had the human touch. You know, Jamie and Steve could still feel what it's like when they put their hand on the face of another human or anything. That wouldn't have been allowed if they were all bionic. So long story short, they were realistic superheroes, which is why I think I call the subtitle

is The $6 Million Man Reconstructed. And yet that subtitle is a cybernetic compendium to TV's most realistic superhero TV show. I had so many different titles for that book. You know, I didn't know what to call it. So finally I just said, I have to call it the bionic book. There's no other title, but the bionic book. So. There you go. Well, I know that the new Blu-ray that is coming out in July from Chowd Factory, Blu-ray that is coming out in July from Shout Factory that it had a lot of legacy extras on there. But you are the person that they reached out to and had new content, these new audio

commentaries that you did. How did you get involved with this specific Blu-ray release? you get involved with this specific Blu-ray release? Well, first of all, I'm totally, totally honored to have been invited to do this. I was contacted by those individuals who produced it and they knew of my work from the Bionic Book and they invited me and I was thrilled. And at the same time, I did not want to be, because I've listened to a lot of different extras over the years on various TV shows and various films. And it was always most of them, not all, but most of them are so clinical, you know, where they're so professorial and it's a little just too much sometimes. And I wanted to bring it on home. And as you can tell, I'm very reserved. So I just wanted to inject a little personality into these extras and to capture as a fan of those shows what I would want to hear if I wasn't doing it. What would I want to hear about this episode of the Six Million Dollar Man as a fan? So I came from that perspective. I came completely from the fan perspective.

So I came from that perspective. I came completely from the fan perspective. And yet, too, I still put in a little professorial stuff and technical stuff and, you know, insight about what made the writer say this or what was going on in the lives of Lee Majors and Lindsay Wagner as well. And what were their input into the characters and into the show, things like that. I just tried to cover the gamut and make it interesting. Well, I was just watching some of the episodes recently. And one thing I realized, it's been a little while since I've watched shows from the 70s, but the pace, very different than television today. There are long stretches in the episode with not really any dialogue. Six Million Dollar Man is running very fast, but slowly, if you know what I mean, in his way. And I think that probably left you a lot of room then to interject and to bring up stories or to talk about the personal, you know, what was going on in that time or whatever. That can make it kind of interesting to kind of fill in a little

bit of that pacing, which is very different. Well, it's interesting that you bring that up because I talk about the pacing of the show in a couple of the commentaries. It was a different time. And not only just the pacing, they never overdid the bionics or the action adventure. It was always something that you looked forward to, or the producers paced it so that it was something that you anticipated. When's he going to do it? Like Samantha, she wasn't twitching every two seconds. She would only twitch until, you know, the last 10 minutes to when the audience wanted her to. She would use her power as a last resort. Same thing with Steve and Jamie. They would always try to get out of a situation, you know, with their wits or with humor or whatever,

without showing the bionics, number one, because if they didn't want to show the bionics because they were bionic, no one's supposed to know, right? So they would always just keep it in reserve until that last 10 minutes when you really wanted Steve to clobber that villain or Jamie clobber that villain. And it happened so perfectly. Today, every two seconds, there's, you know, action, karate, kung fu, it loses something.

It's just too much. And it loses the impact, just like the language of, you know, there's so much vulgarity and violence today that I look at, you stub your toe, you get in an accident, you're going to say the F word or you're going to say a vulgar word, fine. But to do it every two seconds, it takes away the impact of what it could mean. So same thing with action in an action adventure show. It's too much. It's too much.

Well, I think that's a great transition then for us to talk a little bit about some of the specific episodes, because I think there's prime examples of what you're talking about in that. The pilot, for instance, which I believe you did a commentary on. Yes. It was more of a movie, really, is what it was, right? Right. And then was the original name of it The Moon in the Desert, or was that kind of added later on? name of it, The Moon in the Desert, or was that kind of added later on?

Yeah, that was added later on, I believe, when it went into syndication. Because what happened was they did the movie, The Six Million Dollar Man, which was originally called Cyborg. I mean, it was supposed to be called Cyborg right after the novel. But I guess ABC or whatever thought, what does that mean? And that's going to turn everybody off, you know, whatever. So they just called it the $6 million man when it aired as a pilot, a backdoor pilot in like the spring of February or whatever it was of 70, 73. So it did very well, but ABC was still cautious. So it came back in the fall where Steve was very different than what we saw him in that first movie. He became like James Bond. Right.

Steve in a tuxedo. And that wasn't working. The essence of what we saw Steve in that opening sequence of the Six Million Dollar Man pilot, that was the essence of what he returned to when Harv Bennett took over as producer when

it became a weekly series after Glenn Larson, by the way, had produced those three additional TV movies. So in syndication, long story short, in syndication, they just made The Six Million Dollar Man one of the other, you know, 90 minute pilot episodes, and they just gave it a title instead of just a six million dollar man it's a little confusing because at some places i saw where season one is noted as yeah these three movies and season two starts the series and in other places the beginning of the series is is season one so i'm still confused about it you lookDb, it separates it out so that the series actually starts with population zero. Which I love. On the Blu-ray release, it starts with the movies as the beginning, which is the way it should be, obviously.

Well, let's talk a little bit about that pilot. I mean, that pilot sets up the whole Colonel Steve Austin as an astronaut, and then he becomes a test pilot. He goes through, has a crash, and that's when he subsequently rebuilt with these nuclear-powered bionic limbs. What were some of your thoughts and reflections and things you talked about in the commentary on that episode or movie? Well, what I wanted to do with the pilot, I had not seen it in a long time. So I didn't want to look at it before I actually did the commentary. So I was watching it with fresh eyes with the pilot only. I wanted to do something different. So I was kind of like just sitting there as if it was 1973 all over again. And what struck me about it is, and I talk about this in the Blu-ray, how Darren McGavin had that limp.

What was going on with that limp in his leg? It was never fully explored or explained, at least I don't think. Maybe it was in the book, but it wasn't in the show. We just saw that. So I kind of tied that in in my head about how could it be that's why he was so gung-ho about these bionics, that something had happened to him, and is that what motivated him? So I talked about things like that. Of course, Darren McGavin, God bless him, he's just a terrific actor.

He ended up doing The Night Stalker, of course, where he played Kolchak. And Richard Anderson, who had replaced him as Steve's boss, different person though, did The Night Strangler, which was the second Night Stalker movie with Kolchak. So I thought that was interesting. So that's how, what I talk of things like that. Um, you know, I tried to tie it all in and seven degrees from, you know, who is it? Will Smith or not? Uh, Kevin Bacon, not 90 degrees from Kevin Baker, whatever that is. One thing in rewatching it that I noticed was how Lee Majors just has a really great kind of understated approach to the character. He has the perfect hair. Well, of course, he has the perfect hair. He just really, I mean, he brings that realism to it, doesn't he? He brings that kind of, and just to fill you in, my dad was in the army.

So during the time that I was watching this show, we were in the army. And so the fact that he was a colonel, I loved and appreciated all that stuff. But he had that very kind of military stoicism about things. I mean, true, he struggled with the fact that when they say, you know, ask him if he wants to become, have these limbs. I mean, he struggles, they show the struggle there, but he has that very kind of stoic military way of bringing a sense of calm to it and logic and everything. And he's just really sells it to me. Yeah. You know what? And I don't think he really ever got the credit that he deserved as an actor for that, because his his performance in that pilot is wonderful. We see the pain, you know, in the struggle of what physically, emotionally, psychologically, you know, that character goes through. This is a transformation of his body. He's lost half his body. So I think he gives a dynamite performance in that. And I think later on, he loosens up a little bit, mostly because he's doing the show more, he gets a little freer. But I think too,

when Lindsay Wagner came on the show, and she just gave such an incredible performance as Jamie, I think, you know, you would see a little bit more humor injected into the episodes of the $6 million man and to Steve, I think inspired by Lindsay's performance in my opinion. Right. Right. Well, I, I was just, you know, just in rewatching it, I just thought, you know what? TV shows today, their pilots, they really hit you over the head. I mean, you think this pilot could have been a movie. Why did they force all of this content in 43 minutes? that that's a rhetorical question is because they have to, in many ways, to really suck in the viewer in today's audience where there are just so many distractions and the pace of everything is so fast. But in watching this pilot, it was, it was kind of refreshing to watch the pacing and just how they set it up with the moonwalk and, and, you know, they, they took their time to do it. And it really worked for me when I went back and watched it. Absolutely. And I mean, Tim, all I watch

are older shows. I just, I just ordered Petrocelli, which was from a 70s lawyer, because I heard that the prints look great. And there were every major star who before they became a star did a guest, guest spot on it and the pacing and there's no commercials of course right the commercials today are just out of control but yes the storytelling is is of the six million dollar man and the bionic woman too was just of that era and easy to understand although one exception out of all the shows from the 60s and 70s that i love manics i don't know what i never know what they're talking about on that every episode i'm like what what and at the end when they have nine different twists i'm like what so i don't

know well the next one that you did an audio commentary on was the first episode of the series, Population Zero. And that, I was watching that episode and obviously there was a certain expectation that you've seen the previous content. But that one, I was surprised that that was chosen for the first episode in terms of the, just the storyline and everything. What were your thoughts on that episode? Well, it was to me, I don't want to give away too much because I don't want to repeat myself on the Blu-ray.

Um, but that episode is one of my favorites because it's kind of twilight zoney. It's, it's not really a superhero episode of a superhero series. It could stand on its own as its own science fiction movie. That whole where have all the people gone feeling, you know, is so eerie. And I just love it.

And it was special to me, obviously, just like it was special to everybody else, because it was the first weekly episode. I knew that if I was going to do the pilot, that I wanted to talk about the first actual weekly episode. So that's kind of why I chose it, but also because of the other things that I mentioned that it's just so sci-fi-y. It's probably one of the more sci-fi-y episodes of the series. Well, in watching it, a few things popped up to my mind. I thought, wow, it really sets up Steve

Austin as a good person. He goes to save this town near where he grew up. There's people there he knows. And it's not really a government like it's not it's not an assignment in the same way that you would expect. Like they would start the show with Steve, you know, or James Bond. We have this mission for you. It's really very personal. And he's using these bionics for the good of people that are just regular people. It's not to save the world from nuclear disaster or something like that. And it's not just for the agency. And he actually goes against his boss, Oscar Goldman. And that's all in the first episode. I thought that was an interesting choice. It's almost like a second pilot, really, or a fourth pilot. It is. I would say it is a pilot for the weekly series. Well, again, that's Harv Bennett. You know, Harv Bennett was a genius.

He saved the Star Trek films and he saved the Six6 million man, as far as I've been. So Glenn Larson definitely was his own kind of genius, but it was a different Steve, you know, right down to the opening musical theme. He's a man, $6 million. Well, you know, that just, it just didn't fit. So in other words, when Harv Bennett was given the task of rebooting the Star Trek films, he went to the TV division of Paramount and made the films more like the show. With The Six Million Dollar Man, he went back to the pilot and made the weekly series more like what the original vision of the pilot was than those other 90 minute pilots that came after the, uh, the original pilot. He gave the realistic element back to Steve that we saw in the original pilot. That's, that's how I can say it. And I also thought that in having him go

against his boss, it really set up Steve Austin as I'm going to be my own man, even though, you know, even though I, I have this agency, it, I, and I appreciated that more now than I ever did as a kid that, Hey, I've been given these bionics, but I'm still a person and I'm going to make, you know, some of my own choices and I want to save these people. And that way, I thought was a really great part of watching it again. So, well, the next episode I want to talk about was Day of the Robot, which was the fourth episode of that same season. What led you to choose that episode? That was the excitement alone of you know just creating already we had a really

good villain for steve and that was just just tremendous and john saxon you know i haven't had the great pleasure of meeting him uh years later shortly before he died and we talked about that episode and i talk about meeting him in the blu-ray so we talked about that episode. And I talk about meeting him in the Blu-ray. So we'll save that story for the Blu-ray. But yeah, they needed a villain. And just like Batman, you know, needed the Joker and Catwoman and the Penguin, the realistic superhero that Steve was needed a realistic villain. And what better villain than to have an android fight a half-man, half-machine? But Steve always had the upper hand

in those kinds of confrontations. And we saw this with, you know, when the fembots were brought into the show later. The upper hand that both Steve and Jamie had was their humanity. Their humanity. They could always outwit these robotic android villains because they were human. And that was the great thing that made them even better than Superman and Wonder Woman is,

again, that realistic element of who they were going back to the, the original pilot, just for a little while, for a little bit, you know, when Steve saves that little boy or that little girl in the car and he takes, takes off the door and then his arm busts open with the wires and the woman says, his arm busts open with the wires and the woman says, what are you? You know, and he covers,

you felt his pain, you know, and, and that was, that was something you wouldn't, couldn't do with Superman, you know, unless you threw kryptonite into the, into the story and not for anything.

And Steven, Jamie's kryptonite was the cold, you know, whenever they were thrust into the cold they'd lose their power so that was a nice element too but um day the robot was riveting and again it leads the confrontation that they both have at the end it's it's something a dramatic build-up where it wasn't, they were fighting through the whole thing where we look like they would probably do it today. They made, you know,

they made the audience want them to fight at the end and what a fight they gave us. Yeah. And I just love that whole theme of showing how a person with bionics and the humanity is better than just straight technology. It's just, it's a great theme. And of course, back then robots was, you know, I've been shown to us as being very kind of scary. You know, robots were not necessarily a positive.

They're still scary. They're still scary. The next episode, I want to ask you about what's a $7 million man. Why don't you tell us a little bit about that one? Well, again, without giving too much away, what I already talked about on the Blu-ray, Monty Markham was the original choice for $6 million man, which I talk about in my book. But the execs

at, I forget if it was the studio or the network, thought his eyes were a little bit too cold. Now, I've met Monty. He's a sweetheart. And he looks terrific, by the way. So he didn't get the original pilot, but they brought him back. I guess his cold eyes were good to play a villain, which by the way, both of his arms are a bionic. So going back to my point about how, you know, he doesn't have that human touch. So that adds to his villain villainy. So, yeah, that was another great villain.

That was later on, I believe, right? Second season or was it for the first season? That was in, it was in that next season. Yeah, it was in the next season, episode five of that next season. I watched that and I thought that was the whole psychological impact of being bionic really came across, which if you hadn't seen the pilot or even if you had seen it, it had been several years. So trying to remember how Steve was impacted by having some of his limbs be bionic.

Now, in this episode, you got to see that impact, but from somebody who can't handle it. You know, he just it ends up being an emotional and psychological burden at first. It was that for Steve, too, but he overcame it. He overcame it. And you know, he, like many of us who have our, who have issues or big challenges, you either learn by those challenges or you get burned by them and let them conquer you. Steve, in that sense, became the hero you know that's why he was a hero is that he was his humanity was stronger and it just so happened then he could do these superpower things but um barney miller which is the character's name i believe of the seven million dollar man which i ironically was also abc's title abc sitcom barney miller. He didn't handle it. And thus, he was no hero.

He could not become stronger than his challenges. That's why he made him a good villain. So it's a very interesting dichotomy here. People could be bionic left and right, but there's only going to be one $6 million man and one bionic woman because of their humanity. Right. That's what makes them heroes. Yeah. Yeah. I really liked this episode because it really was that internal story, you know, of, oh, Steve is very different.

It's not, you can't just give these bionics to just anybody. You know, it's just like being an astronaut. There's so much to being an astronaut that's just beyond the physical. There's the mental and psychological. And that episode really dives into it. It's a lot of fun. Well, then the next episode was kind of a two-parter, the return of Bigfoot part one and two, which is actually in the season after. What kind of led you to choose those episodes to focus on? Well, Bigfoot.

I remember in my civics class in high school, when that show was on, my civics teacher somehow, I don't know what the heck he was talking about, but somebody goes, well, just like Bigfoot. And I'm like, what did you just bring up Bigfoot? So that's how much of an impact, you know, Bigfoot had. And I just, it became obviously one of the most popular guest characters in the show. So I knew, and I loved it with a crossover episode, you know, between the $6 million man and the Bino comment. I knew that I had to, to address that. Yeah. Because it's a two-parter and everything, it really kind of sucks you in and makes you watch. You got to come back. It's continued.

And Stephanie Powers is in that episode. So she was the, she was one of the actresses that they were going to consider that they were considering if Lindsay Wagner decided not to do or if they were unable to get her for the Bionic Woman. Because, you know, there was a big old debacle with all of that. She was she did this. The first episode of The Sixth Man, Bionic Woman. And then she died. Everybody freaked out to bring her back, but she was out of contract. And they said, okay, if you want her, give me a bazillion dollars a week. So there was a lot going on with that.

So they always had a couple actresses in mind to replace her if they weren't ultimately able to. And thank God they did, because nobody was going to settle for anything less to have her on board. But Stephanie Powers was considered. Farrah was considered. Sally Field was considered. And then finally, you know, ABC was like, get us Lindsay Wagner.

Right. Well, you just mentioned Farrah was considered. Were Farrah and Lee dating at that time when she was considered? Oh, they were married. Yeah, she was doing, this is right before Charlie's Angels. Okay. So she was considered, you know, for the role. And then Lee was like, I don't know, you know, should we really do this?

But again, considered, you know, it was only on the list. List, yeah. I don't think Farrah would, Farrah was Charlie's Angels. She was, you know, Jill Monroe. She was not Jamie Summers. There was nobody who could replace Lindsay Wagner as Jamie. Lindsay was and remains one of the most unique actresses in the history of television. And they were so fortunate to get her. Well, we'll have to hold that discussion of Jamie for another podcast or the bionic woman, which would be fun to do.

But there are a couple more episodes. I know the bionic Christmas Carol. And then was there the bionic ever after movie? Like, did you also talked about on those? I was on the set for bionic ever after. That's what it was. Right. Which they filmed. Was it Charleston, South Carolina or something?

Yeah, I happened to be, Richard Anderson invited me down and that was great fun. He'd be sitting there in front of his hotel, right outside and waiting for the studio car to come pick him up. And he'd have his oil reflection on his face to get his suntan because he had that suntan always uh and he was the sweetest guy ever and um yeah so i was i was i was very honored to be on the set of bionic ever after um what was the other episode you mentioned before that bionic christmas carol oh i had to do Bionic Christmas Carol because Dick Sargent, you know, is in it. And, you know, I'm, you know, of course, from The Witch. He's a second Darren from The Witch. And so I, yeah, I had to do that because there's so much to talk about with that.

It was, it's not really one of his strongest performances, Dick Sargent, but I'm glad, I'm glad he was in that episode. And I, I definitely wanted to talk about it. Well, any other thoughts about the $6 million man? Um, and, and just kind of where it sits in TV history? Well, there would not have been, as I mentioned way back when we started doing this half hour ago or whatever, there would have been no Terminator without the $6 million man. There would have been no other superheroes in the 70s without the $6 million man, female or male. What Lee Majors did with that, again,

is he gave us a hero that we desperately needed at that era. He gave us a stoic performance. He gave us someone that we could believe in that wasn't, that was flawed, but not flawed. Still someone you could depend on. And that's part of the problem with a lot of these superheroes today is they're too accessible, too down to earth, too real. And you go to a Marvel's movie and everybody, there's too many superheroes. It's too much. You know, back in the adventures of Superman and Batman and six million other men, Steve Austin was it. Yes, you'd have the $7 million man. And yes, you'd have Bigfoot. Those are the villains. But you didn't have 10 different bionic men running around confusing everybody, which

again is one of the reasons why the new bionic woman didn't work out either. They brought that other bionic woman in on like the second episode. I was like, what? Let's get to know this first one first. So it was singular storytelling, singular character storytelling of its finest with its great pace. And nobody used guns. Steve and Jamie hated guns. It was action adventure, but not violent.

You know, Kung Fu did the slow motion first. You know, David Carrington did the slow motion first. And then Six kerrigan did the slow motion person and then six minute all-in-one and the bionic woman borrowed from that um and it was perfect a way to tone down the violence and also to add a nice little gimmick uh when did they when did they get the sound effects added because that's not in that first no season is it that No, it's not in the pilot. It was a little bit in the first season, but any show needs time to develop and polish. So by the time the second season came along,

they had all the sound effects down. The running was more in slow motion. There was a couple of times they did the fast motion and they realized how silly that was. But the slow motion added to the running effect. And again, that's why, I mean, if the show would have got canceled, like so many shows do today, and even then after the first two episodes, every show needs time to develop. Every show needs time to find itself. And Six Million Dollar Man was given that time. And the result is a wonderful series written, many episodes of which were

written by real sci-fi writers like DC Fontana and others. And it was just great fun for kids and adults, the whole family. Well, in a world where the studios are always rebooting and making movies off the TV shows, and we've seen Charlie's Angels done a few times, it's kind of surprising that we haven't seen a $6 million man movie, though there is the $6 billion man movie that has been in development for quite a while with Mark Wahlberg, I think since 2015. Yeah, I don't know what's happening because they tried to do with Jim Carey. That didn't work. Here's the deal. This is my personal opinion on these whole reboots for feature films. First of all, don't make it a joke. That started with the Brady Bunch, okay? They made

the Brady Bunch movie into a joke and that's fine because the Brady Bunch, okay? They made the Brady Bunch movie into a joke, and that's fine because the Brady Bunch became kind of satiric in reruns, okay? It didn't set out to be that, but it became that. So the Brady Bunch movie comes out, oh, let's make every reunion movie or every reboot a joke. Well, no, Star Seen House wasn't a joke, but they turned it into a joke, okay?

The Fugitive, they did perfectly with Harrison Ford. So if they want to reboot Six Million Dollar Man, they've got to play it straight. And in my opinion, it shouldn't be a star vehicle. They shouldn't get a celebrity or a star. They should get an unknown. Remember, Lindsay Wagner was unknown when she played Jamie. Steve was, or Lee Majors was relatively unknown when he played the $6 million man. So you get an actor who was unknown, make him the new $6 million man, make it be about the script and not a star vehicle for,

you know, a Brad Pitt type to star in. And then, because then they start, well, I want to do this. I want to do that. No, that's not what the character would do. Maybe that's what Brad Pitt would do, but it's not what the character would do. So you hire an unknown who's hungry to become a star. He'll give a hundred percent performance and it'll make it his own instead of having some celebrity persona compare themselves or be compared to Lee Majors. You understand what I'm trying to say here? Yeah. Is that to me, again, my personal opinion, hire, cast an unknown and have that guy make that character his own.

his own. Well, just for the listeners out there, the Blu-ray release of the complete series of the Six Million Dollar Man is scheduled for release on July 12th from Shot Factory. It will have the three pilot films in all 99 episodes. Those were transferred in 2015 from new interpositive film elements struck in 2011 from the original negative. So the picture quality should be much better. The legacy extras are there, plus Herbie's all new commentaries on the episodes we discussed. And for those who want to know a little bit more about the specifics of the legacy extras, I'll have a link to the complete list of extras on our Facebook page. Well, Herbie, I was watching some episodes of your show,

Then Again with Herbie J. Pilato on Shout TV. And I, just a personal favorite of mine, Robert Conrad, you guys were talking about the Wild Wild West. Tell me about meeting Robert and a little bit about your show for the fans. Well, Robert was a tough nut to crack. I could tell. Cookie. Yeah.

He was, he was tough, but he had, you know, he got into a horrible accident, a car accident. So he was physically in pain during that episode, but he was always a tough cookie before that. But when I realized during our little interview that he just wanted to see how much he could, I could take, I started giving it back to him offset as well. I got it. He understood he was supposed to leave after like right away after he shot the show and he goes I'm just you know I gotta go I gotta go he ended up staying like an hour on the set

with the crew and the cat the yeah a lot the women every woman on the set was all over him still there he was 80 years old he still had everybody every woman after him but I said to him, I go, Hey, Conrad, I thought you were going to leave in five minutes. He looked at me like he was going

to kill me. Right. The next day, his son calls my producers. I just want you to know my, my dad had a really great time on Herbie's show yesterday. So go figure. But the show itself evolved from my live events that I did throughout my career at book signings and whatnot. And I was very excited to do it. It was, you know, we did six episodes the first season with Lara Parker and David Selby and Catherine Lee Scott from Dark Shadows, Cindy Williams and Marion Ross and Eddie Mecca for a tribute to Gary Marshall, who did Happy Days and producer of Happy Days and Laverne Shirley, Batman, Robin, Burt Ward, who's a terrific human being, Ed Asner from the Marital Amour show and the Lou Grant show.

I watched about half of them and I highly recommend them for the viewers and we'll have the link in the podcast show notes and on our website as well. And the Burt Ward one was a lot of fun. He brings the energy. Oh my God.

I was exhausted. I didn't even talk. I was exhausted. You bring the energy and he I think over, he brought more than you. He took it like a hundred and million degrees. Yeah. He was great. And then you just mentioned the Ed Asner one. And that reminds me that you wrote a book on the Mary Tyler Moore show, which is now available on paperback, right? Right. I didn't write it on the show. I wrote it on her life. It's her life story. So what I wanted to do was, there was never a book that covered her entire life and career. She wrote a couple of memoirs of her own. There were a couple other biographies,

but the last 10 years of her life and most of her TV movies were never fully covered. I cover all of that in Mary, the Mary Tyler Moore story. Well, that one is now available on paperback. And again, I'll have links to some of these in the show notes and on the webpage. But you have been prolific. You told me about some of the projects you have in the works. Maybe you can let our listeners know about some of your upcoming books this year and in the future.

Yeah, I'm very excited. I'm writing a new biography on Sean Connery, which is about 99% complete. Diana Rigg from The Avengers and George Lucas and Steven Spielberg. And these are kind of really different. Besides Diana Rigg, these are movie geared books. And it's kind of bringing my career in a different direction because I'm usually a TV guy. And so I'm kind of excited about that. But the most, two of the most important books that I really am thrilled with is my retroactive television book, which is an in-depth perspective of classic TV's social circuitry and the positive impact that classic TV shows have had on society, including The Six Million Dollar Man and the Vineyard Woman. And my Christmas book, which is The 12 Best Secrets of Christmas, A Treasure House

of December Memories Revealed, where I take 12 memories of my Christmas, my own Christmas past, and have a message for each of those Christmases. And I just tie it all together. It's like a nice little instruction book for Christmas. And I'm very excited about that. So that's going to be out in December. The Retroactive Television book should be out this year as well. But the Christmas book I'm very excited about. Well, how can listeners learn more about you and your books and your show than again? You can, I'm all over social media. You can communicate with me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn. You go to my website, herbyjpilato.com, and you can order my books personally signed, or else you could, you can go to amazon.com or barnesandilato.com and you can order my books personally signed or else you can go to Amazon.com or BarnesandNoble.com.

Find out more about my show. You can go to ThenAgainTV.com. And I think the links are all there on your website as well. Yeah, if you go to my main website, HerbieJPilato.com and take it from there, you should be good. Herbie, it's been great having you on the show. I love your positive energy. It's just fun to talk about these classic TV shows. Well, you know, it's my passion and thank you, Tim, for inviting me on. It was a delight. You're wonderful. So important to have a nice host, you know, so I know about how important that is.

For those of you interested in finding out more about the classic TV shows and books we discussed today, there will be links in the podcast show notes and on our website at www.theextras.tv. So be sure and check those out. Also follow the show on Facebook or Twitter at The Extras TV or Instagram at The Extras.TV to stay up to date on the latest episodes and for exclusive images and behind the scenes information about the episodes and upcoming guests. And if you're enjoying the show, please subscribe and leave us a review

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