The Fighter & The Kid - Ron Perlman | TFATK Ep. 928

Episode Date: September 19, 2023

Actor Ron Perlman joins Brendan Schaub and Bryan Callen for the first time on Fighter and the Kid. The guys talk Ron almost quitting acting, teaming up with Guillermo Del Toro for Hellboy and Pinocchio, growing up on the mean streets of New York, learning how to be a man through watching movies, thoughts on the writers strike and much more! DraftKings - Promo Code: Fighter Morgan & Morgan - https://forthepeople.com/fighter

Yes we did, because we got it again. It's the fight only in the kid. This is really the fight only kid. Come on, baby. Well, we have Ron Perlman. It's a big one for me. Yeah, a real hell boy. Hell boy, it's something about it.

It is. Sounds like an art. Try and play it cool here. But here's the thing is an actor. Big fan. I've been doing this for 30 years. It's an actor. It's very important to let me speak on Ron over here because, wait

can I have one more thing? Yes. You know he's the voice of the UFC. I did not know that. I did not know that. I did not know that. I did not know that. No the man has had as, as story to career,

as it gets. There's no actor in the planet. If when you're starting out, if you said, do you want a career like Ron Perlman, everybody go, I'll take, I'll take that. I'll take it right away. Okay. But here's what's, here's what's interesting.

Here's what people don't talk about. He does it and has always done it without really moving. He barely even moves his mouth. Like the guy just kind of sits there and says a couple things. I just said, and he's only heard the New York that much but he doesn't move his mouth. He doesn't fucking move his mouth.

It's called talent. And you know what, here's why, here's the thing about being a great actor. He, I believe everything he says all the time. It's kind of a gene hack man thing. He's never done anything I've seen, and I've seen probably everything you've done. I'm sorry, I know.

I know we've all done some terrible stuff, but for the most part, you've done some great stuff. I've never seen you have a moment where I didn't believe you. And to be that still and be able to do that for that long is so much harder than people realize. But so much, it also run. Did I hear at one point you were gonna quit

or get out of the game? You were going on a dish that's weren't getting a lot of things. And you got, was it beauty in the beast? And you wanna, you wanna watch for that, but you were thinking about getting out? Well, the business thought I was out on a couple of occasions. I had to keep checking my phone to see But you were thinking about getting out. Well the business thought I was out On a couple of occasions. I had to keep checking my phone to see if I hadn't paid the bill Because it didn't rain for like three years and we're funny because it was right after like in 1987

Beauty in the beast hit the airwaves and ran for two and a half seasons. And then they canceled it at the beginning of the 19th. The new guy that took over CBS, you know, they swore him in and he took the oath of office to uphold the CBS Constitution. And his first official act was, but in the beast, canceled. That was it. No, no, no, that's came later. This was Jeff, Jeff somebody or another. He ended up been,

can't have that. I didn't create it, so get it out of here. He ended up launching this religious network that did all this Christian shows and shit, which good luck with that. I mean, he never called me because I was busy, saying that my brookers, they were,

is he being Jewish? But Jeff something, I'll remember his fucking name. No grudge is held. Jeff, no, no, you know, you know, we're good bro, we're good. We're good, we're better not run into you. But anyway, what was I, oh yeah, so, what was this question? No, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you were, you were, you were, you were, you were, you know, I, there was only one moment in my, from the time I started acting in high school, to today, there was only one moment

where I was going to give it up and it was like long, long time ago, it was in the 70s probably. time ago, it was in the 70s, probably. And it only lasted for a day and a half. That's good. Because I decided on a Tuesday, I'm not getting any signals that I should keep doing this. There's not one person, and I'm not even sure I'm giving myself signals, but definitely nobody else is. And you know, this is too hard a thing to do without a little signal from the universe, like, okay, keep bearing you against the walkers eventually.

You know, there were no signals. So that was a Tuesday. My buddy got tickets to a play, a revival of a Tennessee Williams play called Sweet Bird of Youth with Christopher Walken and Irene Worth. Irene Worth was an incredible English character actress. And the curtain comes up and I watch Irene Worth give this tour de force performance. She acts rings around Christopher Walken, it was all he could fucking do to keep up. He was great, but she was like a dynamo.

And we got in the car after the play, me and my buddy Burton, we started driving home, we'd gotten about 45 minutes into the trip, and he says, why are you so fucking quiet? I said, there's nothing I can say after that performance. I said, that she just razzled and dazzled my ass like up and down. And then the first thing I actually said was, you know what? What she just did to me, whatever I got to do, whatever fire I got to walk through to maybe do that to somebody else. It's worth it.

And I've never, ever had a moment. That happened to me with Raging Bull when I saw the Nearog. Whatever happened to me, I went, I got, you know, and when you see great theater in New York, though, when you see great actors, I watched Death of the Salesman with Brian Danny Han, Gloria. I tried that, but I... I tried that, but I... I tried that, but I...

I tried that, but I... I tried that, but I... I tried that, but I... I tried that, but. But I was like, I literally was like, well, first of all, what am I doing? Because that's where the bar is. And it just changes you. It changes your DNA. And all you want to do is maybe participate in that magic for a couple of seconds.

So you can, and what happens to an audience, I think, when you watch something like that, is you forget your human for a while. And what I mean by that is you forget, you have to go to the bathroom, I think, when you watch something like that, is you forget your human for a while. What I mean by that is you forget you have to go to the bathroom, have sex, eat, sleep. You are an arrested, high relief. You are suddenly transported to something which is something probably close to what I would consider God, where you kind of go, that's the highest truth I can imagine. I guess you're dealing with beauty

You're dealing with something that kind of transports you into what is actually truly important and everything else seems trivial Did you see Jerusalem? Do you see Mark Rylens and Jerusalem? I did not my one of my besties though Kim coach just did a revival of that And so he was telling me about what a true divorce that is is. That's what Spielberg saw. I said, I got to put him in my he is again, you see these athletes Spielberg see Mark Rylance. Oh, yes, you see these athletes. When you see these actors on stage who are doing eight shows a week for two and a half hours sometimes and hitting their marks every time. And and're physically, they're physically athletic.

Correct me if I'm right. And it's not like they're millionaires doing every night. Like I'm Broadway, they're not getting paid crazy money. Not that guy never, he was never making money. I don't think he's making money now. Oh, there it is. That's really cool how you brought that up, man. He's great.

That guy, I was in a movie with him about a year and a half ago called Don't Look Up, which Adam McKay wrote and directed. And it was the greatest cast of actors I ever participated with. It was Leo and Jennifer Lawrence and Merrill Streep and you know, not a lot of people you've heard of. There it is, this don't look up. And Mark Reilance acted everybody else off the motherfucking screen. Really?

I mean, I just, of all, you know, I'm a fan of all these people. I mean, I'm just such a movie geek still to this point. But watching Mark Reilance do what he did in that movie, I went, I could never, I would never be able to have the imagination to come up with a character like that and then execute it. So it because it's two phases always. It's like first the imagination gets fired up and

you start imagining a piece of humanity that you that you had to glam off off some words on a page and And then you get that humanity. And I actually have identified two periods in my acting career. The first one was I was able to identify the humanity. But my execution of it was always, it stopped at the identification stage. I didn't get into the flow stage, you know. And I realized that I kept watching my work and I kept going, that's very technically correct, but you're not flowing.

You're not in the moment. And so it became an obsession for me to like just forget about the imagination part of it. Forget about the concept, part of it. Just when the camera's rolling, have the balls to just float and see what comes out. And it's been a kind of... So the one thing informs the other was so... But Mark Reiland plays this guy who's very much like Steve Jobs, I guess, you know? And you got to just go back and watch the performance watching is anything. He's he's riveting and you were sitting in the car

Quiet, I love that story because you kind of went I got to I got to do this I got to figure out how to how to do to somebody what that woman did to me or you know I got to not look back. I got to never ever doubt that this is worth Whatever I got to go through to do it. Because the effect she had on me, and I remember when I was a kid, you know, when I fell in love with movies, I was like, my dad was a laborer, a lower, lower, lower middle class Jewish guy from New York, carried a 35 pound toolbox, went house to house, fixing people's television for $3 a house call when everybody else was charging $15.

My dad was kind of, you know, he was like a kind of a role model. But his life was not, you know, federed with luxury. But what he did do was he surrounded himself, he surrounded himself with music and movies and New York Yankees. Those are his three passions. I would watch him come home from work. We'd have dinner in about $77.30. This thing called Million Dollar Movie would come on on Channel 9 in New York, W.R. and New York.

And I would watch him watch the Tyrone Power performance. And I'd look in his face and there'd be tears in his eyes. And he was infused with, he was transported to where I don't know. But then I kept going from his face to the screen to his face to the screen, watching him watch Spencer Tracy and Harold Flynn and John Wayne, and all those great John Ford movies and everything like that. And my dad, without having any feel for a appreciation of cinema like one one does when one commits to it as a profession He was he he was fucking hook line and sinkerman Transported into a better place

And the next fucking morning next fucking morning you get up and you carry that 35 pound thing And he do what he had to do to put food on the table, but at night it was Sinatra or the Yankees when the season was happening or a million dollar movie and That's where I got my like You know not only did I get a Love for what movies could do to an average working stiff But also I grew up on the mean streets in New York City, right? And I was a Jewish guy in an Irish Puerto Rican Italian black neighborhood. Yeah, no fights there.

Yeah, they were nice to you. I mean, just walking to school. It wasn't anything in particular. It was all of the above, right? You know? You're the Jew. You got to pretend you were Italian. A lot of Jews did pretend they were Italian.

I did. Of course. They're like I did of course Of course I'll get to that. I'll get to that but I basically that's where I learned how to be funny because if somebody said I'm gonna fucking kick your ass up I would tell him a joke and that would be how I would just But um, where was that going with this? So you talk about growing up in the mean streets in New York? Yeah, yeah, here's my point So you're talking about growing up in the mean streets in New York. Yeah. Yeah. Here's my point.

You know, you come to terms when you grow up in a high, high-pressure environment like New York City and you're a young kid and you're fighting for your life and you know, you're trying to figure out like in the food chain. Where do I fuck do I fit? You know, I'm a fat Jewish kid, right? And I'm surrounded by guys who just wanted to kill me. And so where do I fit and how do I survive this? You would think that that was where you would learn how to become a man.

Where I learned how to become a man was watching John Wayne's walk. Errol Flynn's swagger, Tyrone Powers' charm, Jimmy Cagney's fucking manhood, Humphrey Bogart's weirdness in terms of his man. I learned everything I needed to know about the kind of man that I wanted to grow up to be, from movies, really. And I'm not saying that because that's the value of great story,

though. Because you watch these guys who were all flawed in these pictures, but who had a challenge where they had to rise to herohood. And there were huge amounts of obstacles that got them their way. But one way or another, you were watching them Pushed shit aside for the greater good. That's what a hero is in a movie, right? Remember angels with dirty faces. Oh my god, right? And Jimmy Cagney who was famous for saying acting is easy All you got to do is hit your mark, look the other actor in the eye and tell the truth, right? boom, and the angels of dirty faces the reason he just went my God. And you talk about a life lesson and talk about giving up what you want for what you need and coming up with new equilibrium as a human being. He plays this, he plays this criminal and he has a life of crime. And his best friend was a priest. And the reason he couldn't, he got caught and his friend didn't was because he couldn't run as fast.

So his friend ran fast, ran away from the law. He became a priest. Jimmy Cagney gets caught because he couldn't run as fast. He gets put in juvenile detention, caught up in the system, becomes a criminal, and a hero among the kids in the neighborhood, he's like gangster. Yeah, he's a thumper. And he gets, he kills somebody,

and the priest comes to him and says, I want, you're going to the chair, you're going to the electric chair, and Jimmy Gagney's gonna bring me to the chair. I'll go to the chair like a man. You know, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, I don't need a priest, get out of here. You know, I'm gonna go like a man and I'm gonna show him who I am.

And the priest says, I don't want you to do that. These kids will not do that. I want you to do me one last favor. And I know you're gonna hate this. But I want you to do me one last favor and I know you're going to hate this but I want you to do me one last favor. Go ahead. That's what he says. I want you to do one last favor. I know you're going to hate it. What is it? And he goes, I want you to go to the chair like a coward. Oh, wow. I want you to go kicking and screaming and crying because I don't want these kids to look up. Yes. And he goes, it's all I got. All I got is my is my manhood.

You're taking that away from me the last minute. Get out of here, I'm not doing it. That's all I got. And he kinda looks at him and he goes like this, he goes. And the priest leaves the cell. And Jim and Cagney's like, basically, son of a bitch, I'm not doing that shit. And then they take him.

And the way they shoot it is you see just his shadows, his shadow and the guard shadow on the wall as they're taking them. And you think he's just gonna be like, I got it, I got it. You got it, I got it. That's that. And then you see him go, please don't take me, I'm gonna be right. And then you see the kid, neighbor of the kids, what's his name goes to the chair, Yella. In other words, he goes like a coward.

And they're all disappointed. And the priest says, come on, boys, let's go to church and say a prayer. Yeah, yeah. The kid who couldn't run as fast. It's a, that movie, that's an example of, we go to the theater to laugh and cry. Here's my question. Here's my question. You had those heroes that molded your life. You had yours. There it is right there. And I had mine as a kid. Like, it really showed you how to be a man and like carry yourself

and you know, have morals, stuff like that. You look at the stars today. You don't have two young boys. Who do they have to look up to in your business? Good question, buddy. Who do they have? Then you will break with one of my phase, hell boy, Ron Proman,

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Good question, buddy. Who do they have? That's what's on the problem. It's a pretty shallow man. Yeah. Poor bastards. Ha ha ha ha ha ha. I thought you were a bastard.

They're all gonna grow. I'm so intrigued, I didn't want to fire back. I was like, oh wait, yeah? Yeah, they're all gonna grow up to be Edward Sizzahand. You know, like fucking freaks, you know, like God freaks, you know, guys who wear lipstick and, you know, that's, you know. What do you do? It's like I feel bad. I feel bad.

I feel bad. You know, I feel bad. I don't really want to, you know, if I elaborate too hard, I'm gonna throw a lot of people under a lot of fucking buses, and I don't think I really wanna do that because I love actors and I love acting so much. And it's not so much the human condition that has changed. And this is my big, big, big thing across the board.

What has changed in our society are the things that the people in charge are having us worship. So what has changed is the marketplace. So like I'm you know I have two kids who who write and execute music and you know they were my daughter was five years too late and my son was ten years too. Because if they had come along prior to that, they would have played in some club, some record executive would have seen them, spent some million dollars on creating an album, and doing a publicity campaign,

and putting them out into the world, setting up a tour, and boom, they'd be living in Bel Air at a fucking mansion because their music was great. Now do you think there's any less of those people around? Do you think that there's no Stevie Wonder being born every day? But he can't get to the marketplace because fucking, you know, Napster came along and devalued everybody's fucking contribution. So nobody has a shot to live in that beautiful model.

It's not the talent's change. I believe the talent is there. It's probably more talent is there. It might be more. What has changed is the marketplace. It's the way the talent gets to emerge. And it seems to be that a song or anything like that is consumed. It's a nugget to consume.

It's a dopamine hit. You know, remember when we were growing up, when Led Zeppelin or Aerosmith or whoever it was, came out with an album. You took your, you saw the album. There was an art to the album. You listened to every song. There was an A side and a B side. And it was a body of work that you took into context.

It was actually even thematic the way they would arrange their songs, because they knew we were going to, and there was a physical aspect to it. You had to, I remember my dad taking care of the, keep the dust cover on the turntable. Yeah. There was a delicacy, and it meant something. It was a big thing to go by the album, but now, but also the reason they did that is they made their money based off those album sales. Now music artists like Drake and those guys that are streaming, they don't make much off streaming.

They make their money off live, touring, and merch. Yes. So that there's no value in putting that great artistic effort into sweet album cover or a hard album, because it's out. They stream it, and and the kids move on. There was a kind of a mysticism when a new album would come out and you'd have to wait sometimes six months or a year for one of your favorite artists to put something out. And like you say, you'd be the first one online to get the album, you'd take it home,

you'd lift up the cover of this beautiful piece of phonograph to whatever it was that you were listening to, that you spent your whole life saving up for it to get the greatest fucking sound. You had the woofers and the tweeters. And you'd play this, you'd smoke a couple of bones, and you'd play this fucking thing, and your mind would be blown, and you'd play it over and over and over again. And that thing would take a place in your life and also in society where it became this aspirational vehicle that everybody just said, oh shit man, I'm gonna work my ass off to make something happen

that sounds like that. So it created more generations of people who were doing, who were wanting to do the same thing, but it was because there was a kind of a mystical kind of preciousness to the process. And they weren't just streaming 85 million shows a night. And none of them had any different value than the other 80, 80, 3,000.

That's what's happened. Everything's become the preciousness of each thing having an individual value has been removed because they just throw and shit out. Just throw and mud it all. Throw and shit out. Is that happening with movies, you think? Totally. It is, huh? Totally. I did a, you know, Totally. It is, huh? Totally.

I did a, you know, the movie I just referred to, I did two movies that played on Netflix over the last two years. One of them was Don't Look Up, and the other one was Pinocchio. And Bovis. And both of them got multi-nominations. You know, they both played on Netflix. They both were great for a week.

Trending for one week. I mentioned their names to anybody. There you go. It's so true. What movie was that? I know. Where is their massive work? For those weeks, man. Number one on Netflix.

And then a week goes by, there's a new crop. Whereas when we still had, you know, the, have you walked into like, the lowest paradise in New York or radio city musical? Those are with cathedrals that will be built for people to go watch movies in. That's how much Granger it's true and majesty our culture had when it was not all just boiled down until like how many fucking you know Stop options we can get there want subscribers. so they're getting as much content as possible just put it all out whether it's good or bad they don't care and it's all the other it's next to each

other it all sees nice job but also it's happening and we all feel in our field and stand up so Shane Gills number one special great special no more special you have a week now it's not like when Eddie Murphy dropped a special George Carlin where you're talking about for the next two, three years. We even talk about Eddie's now. I'm just telling you now. Now, think about it. Some of these great specials. You have a week, man. A week. And then so to my think why do it? Well, I guess if you get the pace of from that. Values, we all feel devalued. We all feel, I think feel I think the the we all of us feel like There may be no place for this biology for this you know when you writing I was up at 3 30 last night

Cuz I watched Michelle Wolfe. I want you to watch her her episode two and three of her special Phenomenal. Yeah, she's great. She's so well crafted at jokes But I got inspired and I woke up and I wrote from three to 5 30 and you know as well as I do writing a good one hour of comedy out She's so well crafted at jokes, but I got inspired and I woke up and I wrote from three to 5.30 and you know, as well as I do, writing a good one hour of comedy out I'm on tour right now, you know? It's so difficult because you have to, it takes you, it takes me two years before I shoot my special. And I got a tour and I got a car of it and then I come back and I go that was bullshit or I add something to it, but it takes so much of my thought.

And like, I always wonder, like, is it worth it? Because they're gonna watch it as a clip on Instagram. And that's good for that. And then on to my next open-mean hit. And it doesn't even, nobody even has the time to sit through an hour, the part of a shooting hour of comedy, are you out of your mind? Who's gonna sit through that?

Nobody has the attention span anymore. And also, Bill Burr. Even with Bill Burr, like when I spoke to Netflix, I don't care who special it is. If people stop watching, it doesn't matter. Kevin Hart, if you're a Kevin Hart level, Bill Burr level, they stop watching the 28 minute mark. 28 minutes, you gotta figure that's the average.

So some people were watching, but the general 28 minutes long time. But for an hour special, so it's like, so then why are we still putting out 60? We know they're not even getting to that. It's your model. Yeah, it's crazy. Because he used to pay dividends.

Because it's worth it. Because we love it. Because we don't think like, you know, you know, the only reason why they know it's like 28 minutes, everybody stops is because they're fucking lawyers. Yeah. The guys who came from fucking hedge funds. Yeah.

They're not created. Because they have no education and no taste. We're numbers. And no ability to know what's good or bad. All they have is algorithm. That's it. So you get these guys who like, oh yeah, we'll figure out like what the public wants

by executing our algorithm. Yeah. And that's how we know, oh, after 28 minutes, you know, I'm sorry, you're valueless. Yeah. It's so true. So I'm only going to pay you for 28 minutes. Yeah.

Because here I have it right in my hand. I have the, the, the, the, you're not in your hands right in my hand. only going to pay you for 28 minutes. Because here I have it right in my hand. I have the, the time you get married. You're not going to get married. You're not worth anything after 28 minutes. So you know that hour I was going to pay you for? I'm only going to pay you for half. What's that? Dude, you're so right about that.

You are the whole. That's the way they think. We're all reduced to a number. Every one of us is reduced. Seriously. Like, how many bucks you put in the seat? How many clicks you get? I get the capitalist market system.

I get it. And I believe in that but it's not capitalism capitalism. Or any ism any ideology is only as good as the people who are executing. The people who are executing are philistines who have absolutely no relationship to the beauty of culture. no relationship to the beauty of culture, to the things that you and I are talking about. So how do we get it, right? How do we switch it? You talk about it. Because now we tear it down.

Now the AI is coming in. We tear it down and we rebuild it. The Oscar. We rebuild it in the image of the 99% because the people who we're talking about who are making all these fucking positions and using all the algorithm, that's the 1%. And they got us bullshitting.

That's less than 1%. They got us bullshitting, they control everything. Well, you know what, motherfuckers? Maybe you don't control everything. Maybe it's us. They don't have the power. Maybe you stop. Maybe we gas like you for a change.

Shit, I'll storm Netflix with you right now. I don't, you gotta be fired up, dude. How much you like Ron Proman? I love him even better. I'm enjoying this conversation. So, like, what you're doing Ron is you're talking about the things that matter and that are important and I just find myself wanting to be nowhere else. And that's interesting to me that I have that emotional reaction because you're touching

on things that we oftentimes forget because I'm so busy making a living and I'm so busy hustling. And you've been kind of in the business of the algorithm. And it never dawned on me. But it's all, but it's tough because you came from Kansas City, or let's say you post a clip, you're looking at the numbers because we're all conditioned. But gosh bless you because you're not just making a living. You're actually expressing yourself. Yes. And the living will follow from that. And we all get caught up in the fact that, you know, And the living will follow from that. And we all get caught up in the fact that, you know,

the more wealth we're able to accrue, the more independent we get. So wealth has a really important. Yeah, I'm not complaining, we've done wealth. So I'm not, I'm very lucky. But it's important because what you want, you don't want to have to depend on anybody. You want to have autonomy, you want to have independence.

And you want to have a certain sort of a, independence, and you want to have a certain sort of a Fuck you kind of a distance from from being completely Co-opted by the S. Right. Yes. So so being successful is important But really what what you are protecting? The three of us who are sitting here. I don't know about these motherfuckers No, they're out there they're out there that's not how it doesn't trust us out on my dad

I don't trust me though but the three of us we're superior because because we yes we all want to be successful we all want to you know we all care about reaching the most people why because we are creative people who want to keep expressing ourselves and making comments about the lives we're living in, which is what culture is. And I will fight that, I will die on that hill.

And in fact, the strike to make an awkward segue. I love it. Tell me a good segue, right? Can you explain for the people what this strike is really about and what we're fighting for, writers and actors, artists? I think what happened to me with the onset of the strike, was strangely gradual, not very gradual, because after the first week, I was where I am right now. But it took me a week to realize, and it took me this strike to realize how broken the relationship between the emprasarios who make our culture possible.

And those of us who create how vast the disconnect has become. And can I just stop you? It's a really important point you made. I always say that the cornerstone of a culture, the cornerstone of a culture, any culture, is its artistic expression. When you think about India, you think about the Taj Mahal. That was built by Raj for, he wanted to impress a lady. You know, when you think about England, you think about Shakespeare.

When you think about America, you think about rock and roll, you think about jazz, you think about those things that we export. That's what people want to be closest to. That's what makes people feel alive. And anybody who doesn't understand how important art is to our literal identity, it is what we stay alive for. It's what we live for, you know? So, sorry to interrupt, but I just wanted to highlight that because I think it's really important.

It's kind of what you're talking about. It is this famous story. I'm probably not going to get it exactly right because I'm only anecdotally hurt it. I didn't hear it quoted directly from Mr. Churchill, but during the London Blitz, during World War II, when London was getting- Oh, a finest hour. The crap knocked out of them. They went to Mr. Churchill and they said, Mr. Churchill, we're going to have to black out the city because we're sitting duck here.

He said, what do you mean? And they said, well, you know, we have to close the opera houses and the theaters and the... We have to shut everything down. He said, well, then what is it we're fighting for? So they kept it all open. And he fucking wrote it out. He said, I'm not shutting down the lights of my city. That's the lights of my city. If I shut the lights of my city down, the things that make life worth living, which is hearing an incredibly beautiful aria, or watching Berishnikov defy gravity, or watching Tennessee Williams make you go holy fuck.

Then the enemy has won. That's right. That's right. They've taken our musical away. They've taken our role away. They've won, because they. They've taken our role. They've won because they're Philistines, they're savages, and they have no regard for anything. And just numbers.

And those poor bastards, their lives are, what are you even doing alive? Fuck you. Go kill yourself. If there's nothing in your life that's worth living for and dying for except anger and and some sort of twisted Theocracy Get the fuck out of my way, bro. You know get the fuck out of here, you know, so Sorry, I and I interrupt to you before I went off on my thing about that. Yeah, because you were saying there's this you were talking about the strike And what is this disconnect between the impressorios and and

about the strike and what is this disconnect between the impressorios and and and it doesn't seem like we're moving closer closer to the goal line seems like it's getting further and further away. But what what you would know about it anybody. What what has shocked my sensibilities. And I think everyone else is because I'm hearing a lot of people now who are getting the joke about the runaway greed of the people who are on the other side of the negotiating table. They're not even on the other side of negotiating table. They won't come to the negotiating table because they're using this opportunity as to diabolically prove to the world that they're just nothing but Charles Dickens' villains. Well, because they have respect for nothing other than next quarter's profits and their stock

options. And, you know, we all thought, who the fuck would dare on the heels of a pandemic, not only allow a strike to happen, but take the position like, which is going to fucking starve you out. They started out the conversation with, we're going to wait for people to start losing their houses. That's what they said. Really? houses. That's what they said really? Yes, that's what they said they said we're gonna wait until people start losing their houses and having to worry about their rent

Freaking people because that because they know that they can do that But you know me nobody they don't know anybody in Hollywood You know what you're dealing with these things. I was oh finally you said the quiet part out there. Yeah, you know what you're dealing with? These things are the colors. Oh, finally you said the quiet part out loud. There you go. Yeah, you said the quiet part out loud. Yeah, oh, thank you. Thank you for revealing who it is we're negotiating with. You know what, be sure dealing with.

So, it took me a really short amount of time to realize regardless of what we get when the strike is finally over with, it's still in the exact same position of dealing in a world where they're trying to devalue our worth to make their worth more worth. It's just the mercy, nothing really changes. You might have some more favorable terms, but that's the machine. It also might be too, that they are looking at the fact that the world of art has become something you consume like candy, and it goes back to what

we were talking about. They're like, listen, dude, you're replaceable. I can replace you. But replace you with what? That's what's scary. I don't know an AI image. That's what I'm saying. By the way, and they might even say this too.

People don't really care about great movies anymore. They're so off of popcorn. They're so off of it. They just want popcorn stuff. They want, we can export this China and make our money. They're off on AI too. If they think people are gonna go to a movie theater, no one, it's not Ron.

You can't replace him. You're screwed. You can't replace him. They're gonna learn the hard way. You can't replace, I always say this about great movies too. The amount, first of all, there's so many moving parts. So the alchemy that has to occur, the beautiful accident that has to occur

when you see a movie like The Godfather or whatever it might be, any movie that moves you. But also, like don't get it twisted. Great acting, great directing, great writing is a craft that is as difficult as anything you can think about and requires respect and a work ethic that is, that is, as I'll put it up against anything. Great directors, great storytellers, great acting, it ain't an accident.

But again, to this point, they don't, they don't look at it like that. Yeah, how long to take you before you felt like you were an actor? You were probably always felt like an actor, but when you felt like you were able to navigate a role with the bet, you worked with the best of the best, the best of the best. So when you come to that set with Merrill's Strip and

Yeah, there's some insecurities roll. Are you like? Let me tell you a little quick quick little anecdote So a shooting don't look up in Boston in December January and February of 2021 2020 and 2021 so we're in the heart of the lockdown. And there were certain pictures that were, that were, you know, they had to spend a lot of money to have the COVID testing. To have the thing and to have the lockdown to make sure that actors were staying, you know, in their hotel rooms and everything like that. But I actually went to work on a couple of things right in the heart of the lockdown. Don't look up was one of them. And so most of the scenes I do and don't

look up, I'm all by myself, I'm in a spaceship and all, you know, but I had one scene where I had where the President of the United States played by Mel Street introduces me as the guy who's going to go up and fight the asteroid. And it was a night shoot. So I left my hotel, it was February. It was 27 degrees Fahrenheit. I left my hotel room at around 3.30 in the afternoon because we had like an hour and a half drive and then we had a rehearse and then by the time the sun went down we were going to start shooting.

And I had stolen a washcloth from the bathroom of my hotel room. And I get in, it's 27 degrees. I get in the van, the team picks me up. And I'm only in a t-shirt. I got a shirt and I got my winter coat alongside me. And I'm wiping my face. And the guy keeps looking in the rear view mirror and like going, oh Jesus Christ, the fuck's up from me. And he says to me, you want me to turn the heat down? I said, no, no, no, that's okay. And he's looking at me in the rear view mirror and I'm convinced he thinks I got COVID.

Because I am. You were nervous. I am sweating bullets and Finally says to me, Ron, are you doing back there? I said I'm good. I'm good. I'm good You go no, are you all right? You seem like you're sweating and you're all like are you are you okay? I go Yeah, he says what's the problem? I said Merrill Street is what's the problem? I said, Merrill Streep.

I mean, I had not only not ever met her, but I never thought that I was gonna have to go toe to toe in a scene with her. And she's like, she occupies this. She might be the greatest actor, actor, period in some way. You could make her art. Whoever lived, she's in that conversation. She's the GOAT.

Yeah, she can go, yeah. And so he's goes, what do you mean? I go, never mind. You never understand. But he's like, he's like, he's like, but I was, I had shit rolling down my leg at the thought that I was going to have to. Now that was what two years ago, I was 71 years old, bro. So I'm still, so you're asking me, like, when did I realize that I was as good as any of them? I still haven't, and I never will. Look at that cast right there. Look at that. Wow.

You know how recently, not when you shot Hellboy, which won my favorite movies, but now Martin Source Easy, of course, of course, he's crazy. He goes, I don't view that as art. The comic book stuff is just not my cup of tea. You know, more power to them, but it's not what, I don't consider that real art as far as what I do. I wouldn't make those pictures.

I thought about you, I'm like, well, hellboy's such a different thing, but it is a comic book movie. Hellboy's a comic book, it's a massive comic book. When you did it, though, that wasn't the narrative. Was there any reservations not taking that role? Oh, fuck no. You didn't know why that's a role.

Mad game change, life change. So good. It was, you played that character. You did your own thing with that character. Like you were playing, that was crazy. You're like barely, again, again, a badass superhero. By the way, I wanted to know how long you were in makeup for that. So on an average day, I was in makeup for four hours. But then if you notice on the far right, well, the far far right is David fucking harbor. I don't know what the fuck you're

putting him up there. But in the the scenes where I'm sure, again, with the David. I knew these guys were shading. No, no, that's David. Go back to where Tim Chin. That's him, right? That's him there, yes. You know you played with him.

But on the lower left is me shirtless. Those days were six hours. Wow. Now, how much CGI is there? How much makeup? No CGI whatsoever. That's pure six hours. Wow. Now, how much CGI is there? How much makeup do you... No CGI whatsoever. That's pure, practical. Most of them talk about makeup.

That's what I'm talking about. They just painted them. No, I'm saying your body though. You're kind of a strong dude. Well, it was six hours because four of those hours were me doing sit-ups. Exactly. Exactly.

And then David Harbor up there. Yeah, I typed it. I don't trust. I don't trust these guys. I don't get off this bus. Yeah, I don't trust these guys. You know, you played him with such humor though, that character. You just, there was something about that character. It was just great. Well, here's what happened. It says, Jesus, hellboy, three. Is that real? Is that just, I'll see. I'll see anything you like. Give it to me. Give it to me. I'm like every cab driver in New York. I'm just trying to make a living.

That's it. What were you saying about it? If you look at the, when Gimmo first made Hellboy I, the readership of the Hellboy comics was 6,000 readers worldwide. It was not a particular, it was not like, like DM. It was a Batman, yeah. It was this little one-horse comic book, Dark Horse comics, and it 6,000 worldwide. So it was a bit of an uphill battle to do something that wasn't free brand, like when you do badmats,

it's so branded already. So, you're marketing campaigns. But this was, and then in the comic books, Hellboy only spoke in like one word senses. He would go, oh, or, you know, so when Guillermo had to make him three-dimensional as a movie character, he needed a model around which to create the humanity, you know? And since Hellboy was a cigar smoking, beer drinking, under a cheever who only wanted to stay in his bunker and watch Mark's Brothers movies.

And he baby grew up. Played with his cats and he'd pizza. He said, I'm just going to model this off-prone, because he's such a gentleman. He's going to offer the role? Well, he fought for me to have the role for seven years. Wow. The studio, he took five years in one studio and they finally said, sorry, we're never going to make this as long as you keep saying around

Proman's name, we're never going to make this. So he let the contract with Universal Lapse and then spent another two years trying to sell me for the role. And everybody says, says look we got nothing against Proman but he can't be the star of a franchise he's like a shlub you know he's like this like you know he's like a character actor on a good day he's a character but what a genius he is because now I can't picture you not be no what a genius he's not having not only the you know the the vision of who he wanted to play the role

but the single mind in this of letting yeah of letting his movie not get made rather than making it the way he didn't want it what was the what the more people he saw you in that convinced him you'd be good for help well i was in his very first movie was called chronos it was a mexican film it was like a tiny little budget and we got along like we became bros on that film Great guy. He's a great guy. Yes, so strong. We just got along so fucking good And then he took me along with everything he did he put me in blade to And then and all the while he was trying to get hellboy made and he kept telling the studios This is how I see it and I kept saying Guillermo I said, you know hellboy is

Too good a project for you to not make and I said if you make it with somebody else. I won't be mad I'll I get it. I get how the business works. So, you know, don't, speaking of hills to not die on. You know, like, just go make your movie. He goes, yes, my friend, I will, I will do that. And he was lying to me, you know. He was just like, no, I'm not going to make it unless I make it way. And he called you one day and said, I got you the, you're. So what he did was, when Blade II got made

Blade II opened At 42 million dollars for the opening weekend and the Monday after the opening weekend Everyone in town said to Guillermo We want to be in the business with you what movie do you want to make and he said I knew at that point I was either gonna get it done or not and he said I want to do hellboy and my caveat As I want Ron Proman and they said okay. How did it to some sucker said okay? Yeah, it did okay Yeah, it didn't lose money. Yeah, it wasn't like iron man But it's a cult. It's a cult classic. I feel like people everybody on TV all the time

Yeah, they play one of those movies that just stood the test of time. Yeah, no, we're all really proud to have done it. And you got a second film. And it was designed to be a trilogy, which we've never made the third one, but I'm still fighting for that. What about sons of Anarchy? Yeah, that was after it.

It went to Hellboy and then he rolled in sons of Anarchy. So, right? So, yeah, when Hellboy II was in the can and getting ready to come out, that's when they were talking about sons of Anarchy. And I guess I got on a short list of guys to play, you know, Clay Morrow and met with the Kurt Sutter, the creator of the show. We saw eye to eye on the concept, went in and read for the network and I got the part. And then right after that show sort of dropped, Hellboy 2 dropped. So it was a really good year, 2007. Sounds of Anna, I mean, one of the greatest shows of all time. I was a great...

I think what's interesting, two rounds, I'm glad you came in here, because sometimes, like, you're a badass on there. You know, like, you're such a badass. That was just acting. Yeah, that's true. But then, sometimes we'll get you guys in here, where I'll be fans of them, then, you know,

from TV or movies, they come in and you're like, oh, you're nothing like those guys. Yeah. Well, yeah, that's right. They can buy lighter on, dude. You seem to know that you did tap into something because that guy, as that show goes on, your character is so bad, I can't believe it.

Like, just willing to do anything. And that is probably how those, you know, the leaders of criminal organizations really are. When they were creating that, was there any sort of conversation or connection to the actual Biker gangs? Oh my God. I mean, the best thing that Kurt Sutter did when he was, before he even started writing the series, was he went up to Northern Cali and hung out with the Hells Angels and immersed himself in their world.

Because he, you know, every time we had ever seen a depiction of Biker clubs, they were always one dimensional, they were always fat guys with beers, spitting and filling up women and pissing in public. And Kurt wanted to create a family drama that happened to take place in this world, but he really wanted to create a higher-archie of who know who's who in the club you know what what does it mean to be the president what does it mean to be the sergeant arms all the stuff uh... and what does it mean with regard to

your enemies you know the other clubs around where there's all these turf wars so you went up there and you spent like you know at least a month or two just immersing himself in the world and when when he came back, that's when he started writing. So I think the thing that one of the things that people responded to was the authenticity was the fact that this wasn't a one-dimensional kind of world. This was a bunch of very nuanced kind of like really weirdly connected relationships,

who the queen was, who the old lady was, like what it meant to raise a family, what it meant when you put on the cut, what your responsibilities were. Because this was a very, very well crafted subculture of guys, most of the bikers in the United States, especially in the 50s, were either fought in the World War II or the Korean War, and they came back to an ungrateful nation, and they said, we were heroes, man, we fucking put our lives on the

line for you, and you're treating us like we're homeless. So fuck you, we're going to create our own little subculture and have our own rules of the road and we're going to live off the grid. And that's how the Hells Angels and a lot of these original clubs started. They're all very patriotic guys who realized that they were coming back to not the most grateful of situations. Yeah, I was doing a spot, the Lafactor and I see, I read all the books on Biker gangs, I know my Biker gangs and I see this group of Biker gangs in the back.

I'm at the Lafactor. Grabbiker's, yeah. Yeah, a good amount of them. I see them in their patches. I don't say what gang it is, but I recognized the logo. I'm like, oh, shit good amount of them. I see them in their patches. I don't want to say what gang it is. But I recognize the logo. I'm like, oh, shit man, bike gangs.

So I got off stage, I'm waiting for my car outside. They come out, they follow me out. And I'm like, oh, when I was a UFC fighter, I was supposed to do this appearance in Colorado Springs. And my manager calls me and goes, you can't go. I'm like, what do you mean I can't go? It was a paid gig and I have a lot of money back then. I. Like, what do you mean I can't go? There was a paid gig and I have a lot of money back then. I'm like, what do you mean I can't go this?

There's a biker gang meeting, a hell of a angel meeting, and one of their enforcers put a bounty on you and he says he can beat you up. Like, what? You can fight you. Yeah, you want to fight me. I'm like, I don't want to be part of that. He's like, it's the sheriff called a city can't go.

It's not worth the risk. So I'm like, all right, whatever. So I've thought maybe there's when I walk out on the street of sunset of, I'm like, oh, hopefully, not trying to fight me. They're all out there and they're fans. And my first question, I said, I'm like, oh, hey, man, I'm not even trying to overstep here. I go, but I was I love sons of anarchy. I was like, how realistic was that? He's like, pretty spot on, man. Well, he got to go. It's pretty spot on, man. Well, yeah, it was pretty spot on man Do you ever get in pro spy any the hell's angels in this guy? Well while the show was on you know, we only we only worked like Four months out of the year to do the show

So we had like seven months to ourselves and you know wherever we went around the around the not just the country But the world, Canada everywhere. If the Biker Clubs heard that we were around, they were always invited us to sit down and they wanted to show us their appreciation. That's pretty cool. So we really got the endorsement of the real deal guys, which... Well, you played it, like, you see, the game. Humanized. You played it.

You do this subtle thing, and I don't know how you approach that role, but I would say this, a lot of times I see people playing bad guys, and I just go like this, I look at the actor and I go, you don't think like a bad guy, and you never have, and in fact, and you don't know any bad guys. So you're playing someone you saw in a film somewhere. That wasn't the case with you. You were playing what I would say probably, you know, it was almost like your character was a guy who was trying to get from pointed to point B. If you had to take some shortcuts, he was

going to take some shortcuts, but he was getting the point B. And you rooted for him. Is that how you looked at that? How did you play a bad guy? How, what are you thinking? First of all, are you even thinking he's a bad guy? Well, you kind of know what position he occupies in terms of the overall story. Right. And he's, you know, you can't help but say,

yeah, okay, I'm playing the villain. You know. But you have okay, I'm playing the villain. But you have to, that's where the judgment completely has to get thrown out. You can, as an actor, ever judge the person that you're about to play, you simply have to understand him. And the thing that I like to do with characters that have a kind of a muddy relationship with fitting into society, that's how I would describe some of the villains I've played, you know, is I really want to know what made him like that.

I want to know what happened to them that made their psychological wiring muddy and a little bit toward the dark side. And in the minute I embrace that, there's a sympathetic kind of equality, regardless of how bad the things he does are. I think this is a thing that Scorsese does so well in his movies. You watch Robert De Niro and Goodfellas and Ocho Pesci and Goodfellas.

You love them. Yeah, no. But they're fucking evil. I mean, they're just like Ruthless. We had Sam at the Bull Gravano on this podcast. And Sam, he said, when he was a kid He was dyslexic and the kids used to make fun of them and then they called him dumb and So he goes I'm dumb all I got is the street and it started like that and he goes the one thing I do have those I'll fight anybody and I'll never give up you got to kill me and that's how the older guy said

His kids like a bull. He's fighting three dudes at one time. He was so angry. He was obviously very intelligent, but felt dumb, because he was told he was the right, just lexic. And that, that, that, that, I'm human. Yeah, and that, that sort of affirmation from these gangsters in the town,

the guys who everybody looked up to, he went, I wanna be this guy. Yeah, and he was here for an hour, and he's like, man, he's all right. And he's like, oh, he killed 70 people. Yeah. Yeah, but like you said, like, Sammy Kille can help, he's got a sense of humor.

He's got, he's charming, you know, and you will see a human side of his, him. But he's also a soldier. And when he was working for the organization, if he had to kill you, you were going. Well, that's what good acting does, right? It's like even with the Jeffrey Dahmer series on Netflix. Yep.

They were saying how people were falling love with Jeffrey Dahmer, this horrible serial killer. Yeah. But the actor was so damn good. He's from American Horror Story, my favorite. He's so good. He's like, I feel bad for him. Anthony Hopkins, this is insane.

My God, yeah. Yeah, that's the perfect example. My God. My God. Holy shit, this is my favorite character and the, yeah, yeah, that's a perfect example of like how holy shit This is my favorite character and the whole thing and he eats people like a hero But even or goes like Pablo Escobar the guy was so good People would blind Pablo Escobar shirts and merchandise in love with it like that's a terrorist my ex-wife was like I was crying when he died. I was like hey Okay, you don't leave people he died. I was like, hey. You don't leave me. He killed me.

He was the worst human being. I know, but he was so noble, because he was willing to kill everybody. No, no, no. First wife, I'm like, oh, Jesus Christ. You would've married the guy. And I would've been, they would've sent my head. They would've mailed my head to you.

Yeah, my girl when we're watching it, and she's like, he's so, people just don't get him. He was like, Robin Hood, I was like, ha ha. Robin Hood? Robin Hood? There are certain givens that come with leadership. If you're like Pablo Escobar is the head, there's nobody above him. That means he's really intelligent, smarter than anybody else in the room, and probably more charming than anybody else in the room.

Even though he's able to, and I used to have these long discussions with Kurt Sutter about Clay Morrow, the guy I played in, in sons, and I said, how is he able to switch gears the way he does? How is he able to be such a great husband and so benevolent and loving to the group and then just turn on a dime and do things that are completely diabolical. He says, the one thing you learn how to do when you grow up in a rough way, and the premise was that Clay served in the Vietnam War. You know, he had tattoos all over him that, you know, identify the fact that he, you know, he rained down terror on people as a soldier. Those guys learned how to compartmentalize.

One minute there, this, and the next minute there, this, and it's all, it's not a question of which one you are, it's a question of which one you need to be at any given by Polaray You're a bipolar a center of saint and everything in between. Yeah, that's that is what human beings are Tony soprano The genius of that show was that they he was a guy running two families his own family and a crime family And he could take it order a hit and then yell at his son for using the f word in the house at the same time Right, but then go to. And then go to therapy. So you just go, I'm in, I'm in with this guy. And the great writers, this is why, you know, I'm mystified by,

because I can't write. No. But the great writers are able to, to not march to any particular paradigm, you know, they understand that life is funky and complex. And the villain is complex and funky and he's got a good side. And you, you know, anytime you see a great movie like, can't remember, a king of New York with Christopher Walken.

Yeah. There was a, there was a, he makes a speech. He's the bad guy, but he goes, I'm not your problem. I'm just the businessman. Yeah. All that time I was wasting in jail. Well, it just got worse. Yeah. You know, that time I was wasting in jail. Well, it just got worse. Yeah.

You know, that's why we need to get these great writers back to work. That's good. Wrap it up, Ron. How do we, how do you guys move the ball forward getting this strike done with? Well, so I can be. We're not in control. You know, that's one of the tragedies of the whole thing is that, you know, it takes two sides to come back to the table and make an agreement. But if you're negotiating with people in bad faith, who are in bad faith, who have an

agenda to not come back to the table, because it's in their best interests to hurt the other side, or to streamline some of the mistakes they made in their business model so that they can say, if the strike goes on long enough, we no longer have to have this relationship with this particular guy that's called force measure or the strike has canceled out a lot of the contracts that these streamers had with artists.

Does they want to kill the union? Is that what they're trying to do? They've always wanted to kill the union. They cannot stand organized labor. Organized, I mean, no industry has embraced organized labor in the history of the United States. Organized labor has always been a struggle. Yeah, well, so here's a stat for you.

How many workers in this country are part of labor union? What do you think the percentage would be? It's pretty amazing. Just not entertainment across the board. Across the board. Shoof. Well, it's about a third of what it was. 25 years ago. It's 7%. 7%. How about that? 7%? And it used to be 21%. That's right. And now it's 7%. So they're winning. Yeah, they're winning. They're winning. Yeah, they're winning. Oh yeah, well the agenda's working. Again, it's like, yes, because, and you know how,

so who do you know who really, and I make a good living? But who do you know who can actually save money? And I mean enough money to not worry for the next year. You'll only know. I don't know anybody. I mean, I know we know some really rich people, but for the most part, you and I make a great living,

but saving money in Los Angeles, the fuck out of here. Now, it doesn't help that I have Alamonia and John's at board, and I pay that gladly and all that, but, you know, I always think to myself, I'm very lucky, I've done well in this business, but, and there are a lot of people that, I mean, the struggle is very real for him. It is what it is.

It's like it doesn't seem to be getting better. The only good thing the strike did was allow the Ron free time to come on this show. Well, I would have made time no matter what, bro. I'll take it. I would have walked on fucking glass. Or fired her in the cave. I'll take you, man. I'm bad, I see s s s s s s s s s s s s s

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s s s s s s s s s s s s s s s really really good air conditioning in my car and great music so you listen to what you do in accord you listen music yeah what kind of music it's this playlist that I've been developing for the last 60 years you know you musician my father and my brother were both professional drummers wow but I never had the discipline to be to to practice like you need to practice

to become a great musician so I had to choose a creative outlet that required no discipline and no talents. That's why I became an actor. Where'd you grow up in New York? Washington Heights. I know Washington Heights. Yeah. It's a cool area actually. Still is.

Yeah, it's actually nicer now than it was when I was growing up there because it's kind of like you know, there's so few areas in New York City where a young family can start out. So Washington Heights has this kind of not gentrification, but a lot of young families can still afford to get like a three-bedroom apartment up there. That's right. Whereas the rest of the city is like, we're both... When you were a kid, how often would you go to Manhattan? Very, very rarely.

That's right. It's expensive. It was like going to a different city. That's right. That's right. If you were in the Bronx, you stay in the Bronx. If you were in the Bronx, that was what you did. I had a book that you stayed in.

I had a beach club on the Bronx. I was in Ethan L. I'm in Ethan elevated. IRT subway line was Philston bath and tennis club. Amazing. Yeah it was a small patch of grass swimming pool some cabanas and a bunch of fucking Jews playing P-knuckle. And Ma-jong the women were playing Ma-j time the guys the good time they had tennis courts they had basketball courts they had swimming pool they had you know they had dances and stuff and this was my this was my country club you know you get older and and you start to just

really enjoy being a spectator and just shooting the shit just sitting back and talking oh I had the energy for it anymore It's it to me has a pick a land guy. I said, I don't know. I can't fucking walk I'm making a sigh. I'm leaving. I'm leaving that to the Monster like walking. I of course Of course I'll come on podcast and pee and end up. Yeah, yeah, go to the piss You love this that he's so wrapped up with this and I love seeing you like this. We'll have athletes We'll have everybody you come on and he's like this. You're quiet and you're just like this. I take it in so great

The athletes there's no mistake. There's no Actors, but you got you got a real you got a real actor is it coming in? You got a real actor. You got a real New Yorker. You got a guy Your grounded your grounded in a tradition that's uh, I'm grounded. You're grounded. You're grounded in a tradition. That's uh, well, I'm grounded That's for sure. You want a rap a bee? Go take a pee and we'll wrap it properly. Yeah Look at him. Hold on this pee. It's a big boy right there. Yeah, he pees more than I do Yeah, he's got a small black pee when I first got here and now he's pee and again Big bad. I don't even have toeing again. Big body, small bladder. Small cup.

Small dick too, probably. I don't have to say it, but it's got small hands. I'm not going to get into it. Poor guy. Well, I got big feet and you know what that means, right? You know what that means, big understanding. That's what it looks like. Big socks.

Big socks. Very big socks. It's all about me. For a fan, I can tell you that. That's right. These guys were at the board over here. These guys are, yeah, I've never seen him before These these these are

Chin has been with us for this is the salt of the earth over. Oh, yeah He's a little sweet George George was a fan of the show and he lost how many how much weight? I lost all together 260 pounds. Oh, listen, 51 pounds and my lowest was 190 listening to the podcast Yeah, and this kid we gave him an intern Brennan did and he's and now he's just been indispensable indispensable, yeah, I get to live to dream make funny little clips That's a lot of weight to lose bro. Oh, yeah. It took like two years, but just diet, exercise, six days a week. I had an MMA fight when I came to get... You got your fought, yeah?

Really? I didn't win, but I had a fight. Got choke down. You won though, bro. You won the big war. Yeah, right. I won life. Honestly, you won the big war.

Honestly, you won the big war. You won the big war. And if it means anything, when I come home from work, I play the Call of Duty zombies that you voice. It means a lot. It means a lot. It means a lot. Anytime anybody, you know, like, anytime anybody tells me that they, you know, they've seen something in my mind or they watch something in my mind or they're like, you know, I, I, I, I'm not blowing smoke or, or, or being falsely humbler and I, I don't, I just think of myself as a dude. I don't think of myself as, as, you know, as a celebrity yeah you know and uh when I hear like I spent a

little time watching this thing and I go oh wow that's come me more yeah I can't I can't I can't you know I I'm the same way I I I get like I'll be in the airport I get recognizing I don't let him go I'm I'm that guy who gets I I'm I'm I'm I'm just like thank you very much you know I'll answer questions I'll sit there and talk I'm not I've never been. I'm crum, I'm just like, thank you very much. I'll answer questions, I'll sit there and talk. I'm not, I've never been cool. I've never gotten over that. The first- The reference.

Dude, I did, the first time I was a first-day show, I ever did was a show called Mad TV. I was part of this, the original cast. And I came back to New York after my first season. And I got recognized for the first time. In fact, my buddy got, my buddy, we're in Central Park, my buddy gets interrupted because the guy comes over to take a picture with me.

It was 1997, I go, I look at my boys, I go, guys, sorry, it's different now. I got them there. It was the fucking... Will Sassos, was he on that? Will was on the season after me. That's my, he's a dear friend, and he's done this show a ton of times.

Oh, I bet he has. The funniest. His podcast, the dude's. He's a genius. He's a genius. That's so how sad so he's a genius. Funny. It's personal. We know. Oh my God. He's a genius. Biggest gas. Well, I've never seen anybody that funny. He can do anything anytime. His whole code. Not only is he funny, but he seems to have every fact at his disposal. He's brilliant. He's so well read and he's so well informed. Yeah, I love well.

How do you know? You work with him? He used to work at a Gold Shroom with me, and not with me, but I used to see him in Gold Shroom. And he used to work at a just two cafes. And that's Moittai Trainer at Gold. Yeah, Harold. Harold taught me to box.

And did it greatest. I took Harold's tooth out. Get the fuck out of here. He was, he was two different college shoes. He was teaching me exactly. Harold that that's my face next to his calf. Look at the size of his massive calf. That's a bowl heart. It was his a golds gym in Venice. No, and in Hollywood on that whole Coinga. Yeah, I used to work out there. Yeah, it was a game. Right up until the pandemic I worked out there. Yeah, and used to work and and and so you do a little boxing. So I decided to, you know, Harold and I became tight just from like bullshit and on the floor. Whenever this was a more tight, he was a world

champion more tight guy. And he was and was a Jewish guy. Jewish guy Harold Diamond. He was in the he was in the Sloan movies. He was sassos trainer, but he was a legit fighter. He actually fought in what's the center, in the Bangkok. The Thailand? Yeah, the big stadium for the early time of the day. Yeah. But yeah, so go on. So it's...

No, no, no. I decided, yeah, I wanted a box a couple of times a week. And so I hired Harold to be my boxing trainer, up in goals upstairs in the second floor. And there he is. And we were going along really good. And then one day he was teaching me this combination and he said, okay, let's see it before you got a chance to put his hand up.

And I took his fucking tooth out. That was the last lesson I had with him. He's a hot dog. He's still getting dials. I'm still getting dials. He's still getting dials. Oh, no. And do you still train?

He didn't have a... Do you still train or no? He didn't have dental, obviously. Yeah. No, he actually moved to Bangkok. He was in Bangkok, okay. He had like all muscle. And we were at a party at Sassos House, and he grabbed me around the waist No, he actually moved to Bangkok. He was in Bangkok. Oh, okay. Like all muscle.

And we were at a party at Sassos House, and he grabbed me around the waist and did this thing. And I was like, Jesus, he'd like, you know, and he would, he'd lift his shirt up and he just had dinner rolls, just muscle, just, and he had so many opinions about nutrition and all that. It was a very, it was a very colorful day. Color sounds like if like Iran doesn't take your tooth out, and i think that's always up my hands are on the have to

i had never stopped and i used to be and i think yeah for training ron is a big day for me man i'm glad you came in brother i am too man you know i was like uh... ice because i said to rob because he said this up you know the guy who did it

and uh... so so what do I need to know? I mean, he said, well, it's kind of sports oriented. I said, yeah, but I don't follow any sports except golf. I said, they're probably not going to fucking want to talk about golf. I like golf. He said, well, I don't know what to tell you then. Maybe you don't want to do the show after all.

I said, now you know what? Well, make it work. We don't talk about sports at all. Yeah, it's where we call the sports show. You're what a pleasure. Yeah, we are not the sports show. You're a pleasure. You're the better person.

Mine, it's been a great conversation. Yeah, you're the best, man. I hope the strike stuff gets figured out. I really do. Well, in the meantime, you are important. And this is something that people have to realize. It's anybody who's fighting the good fight. And in the business of original self-expression and

Who holds the bars high as you do? Sometimes you don't feel like you're making a difference, but you do make a difference man And that's I know you feel like just to do as you were talking about but you're not and you're a sage You know in your own way and that's that's kind of what comes with being a It comes down to you guys need some muscle you got my number I got broke whatever you need back at you. Yeah at you yeah yeah hell yeah if you got somebody who's good in a wheelchair man and you know I'll be like this I know we're wrapping this up yeah but I want to I want to I want to we'll we'll get on to something a second ago and what I realized about the the with the onset of the strike, and with the fact that I started

to realize, like, we're living in an upside down twisted world where people, what people are being shoved down their throats, is just strictly false. The 1% is 1% and they got as bullshitted into the fact that they control everything. And it's just, you know, if they were making the world a better place, God bless. You know, I'll sign me up, right? But if they're devaluing the most beautiful things about living in this life in order for them to gaslight this into thinking that we can't live without them, then we got a problem. And I started thinking about... What was I, what was I start thinking about? I started thinking about how the narrative absolutely has to be changed and how the people

who made, you know, who were real MAGA, make America great again, you know what that was? That was the middle class. You know why the middle class happened is because of labor unions. Like the minute labor got the idea in the 30s against threats of fucking being killed and violence. Of course, yeah. That they needed to organize in order to get a civilized working day and it's kind of a salary structure where they could raise kids and retire with dignity. That's the slogan of the middle class. And you know, retire with dignity. That's what made America great. Well, the idea that you had a future, that if you played by the rules and that if you worked hard

You could you could create a better life for your kids and a future where you could take a breath Where you could catch your fucking breath man? So when you mentioned the fact that there's only seven percent of all the workers in the United States that There are members of labor union That's a brown and then you look at you know fucking Amazon, you know, fucking Amazon that, you know, that won't let you unionize

and Starbucks that won't let you unionize. And then you look at the fact that, for the, like, I came up in the 60s, I had fucking the Beatles, Martin Luther King, John Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, Bob Dylan. Malcolm X. We were fucking gonna change the world. Everybody that was from 17 to 29 was engaged, bro.

And now I'm looking at a bunch of fucking 17 to 29 year olds that have all the energy in the world, all the idealism in the world, and absolutely nothing to believe in. Because the enemy, the enemy, they look at their fucking phone. But the enemy feels like a machine though. The enemy feels like it's invisible. We don't know, people don't know where to strike.

They don't, so you talk about. Let's give them a direction. Well, you got to think. That's what the nearest direction, you got to think, that's what you have to do. Because the problem is that right now, it's what I said, most kids don't even know where or how they fit into a future.

A future that offers the blockchain, nanotechnology, robots, AI, a future that is going to replace human expression and the human machine with a better, quote unquote, better you know, even with unions and stuff, what they'll tell you is, hey, technology is gonna take your job anyway. And this is what, so whether that's true or not, I don't wanna live in a world of machines. I wanna live in a world of people who are still, you know, one of the things you love about cars

is like Ferraris and those cars is dead. That's the, but the, the, but the detail, this thing, the craftsmanship that goes into that end, the artistry that goes into the body. It's more than just convenience. It's more than just abundant. It's not convenient. There is something you gain from cooking your own meal,

picking up that tomato and finding the right one that's been ripin' on a vine. There's something about that process that takes a long time to make an amazing meal and serving that to your family and sitting around and taking the time to eat. If you think you can replace that with a machine, then good luck with that.

Good luck with that. But there is a segment of our society that does. Yes. And that segment of society is rewarded with inordinate amounts of wealth and inordinate amounts of power. And I'm telling you that that sliver of society that is operating on that level of cynicism on the fact that there's nothing worth, no part of humanity that's worth dying for other than greed and wealth.

They are very much in the minority. Yes, there's a lot of money. I have, you know, just to wrap all this up, because we've been talking a little bit about the striking, about various and other things, is I'm going to spend the rest of my life figuring out a way to engage the guys from 17 to 29 into having something to fucking fight for. And that thing is going to be dignity. That thing is going to be humanity. That thing is going to be individual respect. That thing is going to be a return to the thing like I'm not powerless. In fact, I'm just the opposite.

I can fucking tell these guys how shit's gonna go. That's a movement. Sign me up. And we'll always be here for you to come on here. That's a movement, bro. And I think, I think that, yeah, it's one thing to be a part of the entertainment industry and we're going on strike now,

but we are just a symptom of a very bigger malady. And that is the devaluation of things that are precious. And the devaluation of the individual and his ability to fucking reach the moon. And to know the difference between a technology that can cure cancer and cure diabetes or replace humanity. Yeah, and man cats. Yeah, that's it. It's a great distinction. Just because that technology is out there, doesn't mean you have to use it for the most diabolical means,

unless all you care about is greed. Yeah. And I particularly feel like we need to just do everything we can to change the narrative to say, sorry, mother fuckers, you don't win. You don't win you don't win I'm not all you do is you try to make me feel small and you know what that's bullish yet that's gaslighting bro yeah so you don't win and you know you're tough if it means creating a movement

where labor where the little guy you know becomes the straw that stirs the drink again with the little guy you know becomes the straw that stores the drink again so i'm you know that's a good thing worth fighting for that's a good that's a good that's a good monologue to end on yep you see what i mean i'll try my trust that's right now no no no you take it easy that's a big truck that rock perlman said

i'm with ron's for ron i never mentioned the N word. Never mentioned the N word. Speaking of being creative, spoken on there this Thursday, Friday, Saturday, spoken, comic club with my faves. I'll probably be staying court-length, but either way, spoken, Washington, September 21st, 23rd. I'll be there. Skankfest with you there.

Hey, Genesee Theater, I'll see you, I'll see you at the Genesee Theater September. Why does it say, oh, funny, but I'm already done. Where's Genesee? There you go. Oh, there we go. Sunday. Well, Keegan Illinois, Sunday, I'll see you at the Genesee Theater. Let's go.

Still some tickets. September 24th, 7 p.m. Can't wait, skank fest after that. Comedy Zone, Greenlandboro, North Carolina, October 6th and 7th. Come get some, brandkound.com. Ron Prohm. Ron, we love you. You're awesome.

Thank you so much. I appreciate you. Wow. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you.

I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you.

I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you. I appreciate you.