The Flop House - Ella McCay

Episode Date: March 14, 2026

On this episode, we discuss ELLA MCCAY, which -- based on its poster -- is a movie about a woman having trouble with her shoe. Hmn. That can't be right. Well, whatever it's about, it's made by the legendary James L. Brooks, so we can be sure it'll have a clear plot, strong themes, and a comprehensible emotional throughline! Stay updated on all things Flop House, plus a little extra, with our NEWSLETTER, “Flop Secrets! Paste https://feeds.simplecast.com/EOAFriME into iTunes (or your favorite podcatching software) to have new episodes of The Flop House delivered to you directly, as they’re released. Wikipedia page for Ella McCay Recommended in this episode: Dan: Gold Diggers of 1933 (1933) Stu: American Cyborg: Steel Warrior (1993) Elliott: The Cotton Club: Encore (2019 new edit)

On this episode, we discuss Ella McKay. I didn't realize I need to have a hot one, cute, I'm sorry. Usually you have the hottest ones, Stu. Yeah. I got a, oh man, I got a smoker. Watch out. Okay. Get on your fucking oven mitts.

Okay. On this episode, we discuss Ella McKay. By James Ella Brooks. Yeah. Pretty good. Hey everyone, and welcome to the flop house. I'm Dan McCoy. I'm Stuart Wellington.

And I'm Elliot Kalin, not doing this bit because I've got stuff to promote. I've got an all-new comic book, Barbarian behind bars, on comic book shelves right now. Now you say it's on comic book shelves right now, but I'm looking over at my own comic book shelf and I don't see it. That just shows me, you're a bad friend. I actually, even though not even the first issue had been out, I pre-ordered the trade paperback, TVB. That still counts. It's the only way I read comics.

Wait, the first floppy issue is already out on. The first floppy issue of Barbarian behind bars is already out. What happens when a barbarian from a fantasy world ends up on earth and gets thrown in the slamer? I got to head to my local comic book shop and wade through a pile of manga and figurines and then get to the back of the store where I'll request that specific comic book. They should clean up that manga spill that's been there for so long. Oh, it's so hard because the birds get it stuck to their feathers and then they can't fly. They tried a junk shot to stop the manga leak, but it hasn't.

Do you remember guys remember that years ago when the Deep Horizon was still leaking oil and they're like, well, what if we fill it with crap? Well, they just tried to fill it with garbage to stop the leak and that didn't work, though? I thought that helped. I think it helped a little bit, maybe, but it was not the Hail Mary success that they hoped it would be. It didn't stop until the earth ran out of oil. Well, this isn't a Disasters of the Past podcast. No, it's a disasters of cinema present podcast. Yeah, we're a podcast where we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it.

Or a movie, you know, that has been purported to be bad. We don't know. We don't know how to time. Sometimes it's a movie that means well. It's hard. It's in its right place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. God bless them, they just.

Sometimes we get a little whiff of a stinker and we follow our nose to the local Cineplex. I mean, we don't even have a choice. the scent it sticks its fingers into our nose and pulls us along floating through the air and we float along

toes curled fingers tingling not to not to tip our hands a little or at least my own hand beforehand but uh because you have a glass of water

in that hand and it'll spill everywhere yeah yeah yeah this is a movie I do feel a little bad about covering just because it's like

oh we don't get these kinds of movies anymore and it does have its heart in the right place and like it's not like I you know spoiler

hated it or anything. It's just a, but it was a large flop. It was a, a movie that did not do well on a big level. They don't make movies for aunts and uncles anymore. No, it is, I think it's true. I think we can hold two opposing thoughts in our head, which is that, or contradictory or two complicated thoughts on ours, which is one is, I would like to see them make more movies like this, but also this is not a good version of one of those movies. It is not, is not

successful at being the kind of movie that I wish. they made more of in which James L. Brooks, the right director, has made several of, you know. Yeah. So it is no, it is no slam on James L. Brooks to say, spoiler alert, this is not his best work. No. A man who made broadcast news, maybe a perfect movie. Yeah, in terms of Endearment, which is a wonderful movie.

Even as good as it gets, which is not quite as good as those, is a much better movie than this. Doesn't live up to his title, but it's still pretty good. So this is more on the spanglish end of the pool. Ouch. So let's dive into that spanglish pool party. Yeah, I don't know. Spanglish pool party. I think Trump has declared those against the law.

Dan just looked at me when he was saying that, and my blood ran cold thinking I was supposed to do the summary. And I know I'm not. No, I'm on summary duty today. So get ready. because here in California, it is very summary. It's a blazing 81 degrees. Whereas where you guys are, what is it, like negative 703 degrees?

It's actually okay now. We're back in the 40s, but we have, you know, we did our second blizzard of the year recently. Yeah. You guys have a lot of blizzards. It's too bad you're not in Australia because then it could be the blizzard of Oz, but no, you're in New York City. So that pun would make no sense. So moving on to Ella McKay, this is something that everybody loves, a movie that gives the people making the trailers, the opportunity to have a bunch of characters

just repeat the main character's name because it's the title over and over again. I assume as I saw the commercial for this and you had a bunch of characters going, Ella, Ella, Ella, Ella McKay? I was like, I'm going to fucking hate this movie. Like, I just don't, I don't like trailers where they do that, you know? So there have been good movies that are just the name of a character.

I don't mind when the title is the name the character. I don't like it when the commercial has just cuts together. I don't like when the commercial just cuts together a bunch of people saying the name as if it's a name. It's like, the audience supposed to be like, this person must be famous. I got to see this. I understand your objection. I understand your specific objection.

But I do kind of think personally, this is just me, Dan. It's a little weird to name movies after like a character that like is not a character that we all know already. But there's a good example. Jerry McGuire, stuff like that, you know. But it does seem like a pretty. It seems like a pretty. boring way to name a movie. Like, get a load of this.

You can't wait until you meet this guy. You don't know what this deal is, but you're going to know soon. That's true. You get a movie like Doddsworth, which is an amazing movie. It's a beautiful movie, but it's about a guy named Dodsworth. Sometimes I think it's because there are certain types of movies. And L. M.K. is trying to be one of those movies where I think it's hard to sum up the concept of the movie in a phrase, in a title. Yeah.

That was a problem that James L. Brooks had when writing the screenplay. What is it about? He also had the problem summing up with the movies about in the story. But like a movie like Dodsworth, it's about an older man whose marriage is falling apart and he goes to Europe and he finds new love again. Like, what are you going to call that? You know, with this one, what would you call it, Dan? I guess you'd call it Little Miss Nooner. You know, that could be the title of the movie.

I'd probably get a better, you know, audience if you got that. I would, I feel like the tomato meter would be fucked up, though, because all these people would see it expecting one thing. Yeah, that's a good point. It'd be the old Simpsons joke about going to see Naked Lunch. He goes, I can make them two things wrong with that title. I think the movie should have been called shenanigans in Rhode Island. You think it's Rhode Island? Okay.

I mean, the whole thing was shot in Rhode Island, and they don't specify, but it's got like a Rhode Island feel. And they do mention ports at one point. A Rhode Island feel, huh? Yeah, that famous Rhode Island feel. Well, the idea that she's like the lieutenant governor of like a small state makes sense. I mean, it especially makes sense. because when she becomes governor, there's no, there's no, like, big things that she has to deal with almost immediately. But anyway, so let's start the week.

Let's talk about it. We start not with L. Makey herself. We start with Julie Kavanaugh. That's right. TV's Marge, long time James O'Brox cohort. Homey. When James O'Brien. Perfect.

Wait, let's hear it again. Homey. That's just, I thought, I thought, is Julie Kavanaugh here? Ms. Cameron, thank you so much for joining the podcast. Special guest to everybody. Yeah. But all she says is homie, yeah. Getting scratchier and scratcher

Because she's, you know, she's getting up there in years. Yeah, Dan, so you're criticizing her for the time? No, I'm just saying that like, no, not at all, but like her already famously scratchy voice is now, you know, like a vinyl record you bought. I mean, I love it, though. I've got cab scratch fever, so I'm totally cool with it, yeah. So Julie Kavanaugh, she introduced herself as the narrator.

She's someone who works for and loves Ella McKay. Who is Elma K? Well, let's go back to 2000. Well, she adores her. That's what I know about. She adores El Miquet. And she assumes that you, the audience, I think, are also going to come to adore her. At the end, we can talk about whether we came to adore Ella McKay.

I mean, if anything's going to do it, it's Julie Kavanaugh saying that she adores someone. I'm like, okay, I'll hear you out. But I think, I don't know about you guys. We'll get to it. I found Ella McKay as a character very off-putting. And I think it was as if it was almost as if. Because she's a woman. That's what it is.

No, no, but there's this intense. like intense, honest, forthrightness about her that I think needed a little bit more of an understanding from the movie about how that, how off-putting that can be, you know? And I think the other characters...

The movie does understand it. Like, that's the whole point. I felt like the other characters in the movie understood it, but I felt like the movie didn't understand it. Because the other characters in the movie would be like, you understand that people don't like you, Ella, but the movie kept presenting her as like, you love her.

You fucking love her. She's amazing. I am not going to say that this movie is successful, but I would suggest that the movie is trying to say, like, why do we hate people who are honest and forthright and passionate? Like, why is that? Well, but I think the thing is that,

well, we'll get to it, I guess, but her character is forthright and not as passionate, but she's also fairly oblivious to the people around her. She sees all of the world through the lens of what's important to her or her feelings. And I think that's what was really getting to me is that I don't think she ever reckons with that, you know, that she is imposing herself

and her feelings on other characters throughout the movie, you know. But anyway, flashback to 2008, because that's when the movie takes place. And Ella is the third youngest woman to be lieutenant governor of an unnamed state, which is quite an achievement, I guess. Then we flash back almost instantly to when she was 16 to find out about her family trauma. Yeah, a little bit of whiplash here. It's a little bit of whiplash and not the fun whiplash for the guys playing drums.

And J.K. Simmons is like, play those drums faster, asshole. I guess that is fun. And it is confusing. We were doing a little texting about, like, how old everyone's supposed to be in this movie. And it is odd that, like, we flashback like a decade from 2008 or whatever it is. And El Miquay is still played by Emma Mackie. I mean, it's confusing enough that the character and the actress have almost the same name. Yeah.

The only person played by a different actor is her younger brother, who's played by a younger actor. Which I think was a mistake. Oh, you think he should have placed. You think the same actor should play him in his 20s and also at 8? Yes. Well, I kind of agree if, like, just in that, like, if you're going to change one actor, change them all. Like, have someone play the younger L. McKay.

It is so weird to have her flashback and be like, wait, Rebecca Hall's supposed to be her mom who's 14 years older than her. Yeah, well, I'm, and also it means that Woody Harrelson, Woody Harrelson gets to wear unconvincing wigs both as a younger middle-aged man and as an old man. But I would say, I don't, I think they should have re- I think they should have had younger actor playing it. Do you think... Do you think Woody Harrelson made, like,

the wig department mad on one of his movies, and now they're all like, we're going to fuck this dude up. Yeah, the hairdresser's union has declared a fatwa against Woody Haraldson's image. And so whenever in their movie, he's like, well, time to go to my wig fitting. And they're like, oh, you're in for it this time.

You know what you did to the world of wigs. Yeah. What do you think he did? What do you think he did to a wig or hairdresser? He's pretty beloved, you know? I mean, that's why he's... He starred in Beloved. He did.

That was a weird. I don't agree with that. He also co-wrote it. He didn't get credit, but he did co-wrote. Well, because he's big friends. He was close friends to Tony Morrison at the time. And he was like, Tony, I want you to write a story for me. And again, it was strange casting.

But, you know. Very odd. Can I. You won the Academy Award for it. So you can't argue more. Yeah, can argue. So her, so this is Flashman when she's 16. Emma, Emmy Mackey plays the character of both.

Her dad, Woody Harrelson, and her, Aunt Helen, Jamie Lee Curtis are there. She's a younger brother and her mom, Rebecca Hall. And Ella, her dad is resigning from his job as a hospital administrator or something because of affairs that he had with his workers, with his employees.

And Ella is confronting her dad over this and she refuses to go with him and stand by him and pretend that everything's okay. And she takes her brother Casey and literally brings them to the dictionary to read the definition of trauma to him. And the women and the family, they

all side with Ella, Woody Harrelson goes off on his own to resign, leaving his wife, his sister, and his daughter there. Six months later, whiplash, her mom is like, hey, we're moving to California for a fresh start. And Ella's like, but it'll ruin my education. And she goes, why do you stay with her with him, mom? She goes, because I still love him. And Ella is so disappointed.

And then her mom says, you can stay with Aunt Helen until you go to college. And she's equally upset about that. Like, she didn't want to move and she doesn't want to stay. and they have a lot of tearful, heavy conversations. Which is crazy because, I mean, Jamie Lee Curtis is, like, locked in on, like, the aunt role. Yes. Like, I believe it a thousand percent.

The only, I mean, Jamie Lee Curtis is really good in this. She's not a good part, but she's really good in it. And I'll say that the only person, she, she, her only rival for loving and adoring Ella McKay is Julie Kavaner. These two characters, like, she has two strong, older women who are always in her corner, and, you know, that's something to be said. And I think there was something about the way Ella talks. In a way that Aunt Helen talks, which at times made me feel like James O. Brooks was trying to write almost kind of West Anderson-y-type characters.

There's like, Ella's like, you still love me, don't you, Aunt to Helen? And Ellen's like, ridiculously. And there's a part where Anne Helen says to Woody Harrelson, like, I will never forgive you. I love you. If there's anything you need, call me. And that's a very kind of like Wes Anderson-y type of thing you say. I think that James L. Brooks has been writing dialogue like that for years. It's just been in better movies.

Maybe. I don't think of him as sounding that kind of like, that kind of like cute or kind of like what's the word? Like, coy is not the word I'm looking for,

but like glib. There's a glibness to it that I don't associate with James L Brooks, you know. But I don't know. I think you miss remember. Maybe.

And also, Helen looks at Ella's papers from school and she smiles at the teacher's comment. Helen and Ella, that's crazy, right? That is crazy, man. That is Helen and Ella.

Yeah. Man, man, those vowel sounds are so similar, man. It's like they took one name and put it inside another name. Because Helen is like Ella with an H and an N. It's like take the A and put an E in there instead. It's like one of the L's, but. Helen ate Ella.

Guys, guys, have you heard the story about how much, how six was afraid of seven? You're never going to believe what seven did to nine. So, it feels good to be seen by you guys, you know, to be understood.

So Helen smiles. The teacher has written on Ella's report, you can be a force for good, which feels like a very on the nose comment from a teacher on a paper. Anyway, we go back to 2008. There's a reporter pursuing Ella. We don't know why yet.

Ella goes to the fundraising phone room where state legislators spend seven hours a day off away from the state capital just calling to raise funds for the party. And she sees Governor Bill, James O'Brooks' brother, Albert Brooks. I'm just kidding. They're not really related. Also, with a really cool wig.

He also has a great wig. I mean, Albert Brooks also really good in this movie. Not a surprise. He's Albert Brooks. He's a genius. You know. No, if there's one reason to see this movie, it's Albert Brooks. I wish he was in more of it. I wish this was an Albert Brooks movie. And he

also has a weird way. And they're not really brothers. Albert Brooks's brothers, of course, the late Super Dave Osborne. The, they he tells her, he goes, I'm going to be appointed to the cabinet. Secretary of the Interior, which fights the idea that this is Rhode Island. Because if you're going to appoint a governor secretary of the interior, usually

they come from a Western or Midwestern state. a large state or a swing state Rhode Island is essentially useless in the electoral college. When you're balancing your cabinet you don't usually put... Unless he just represents the northeast you know, basically or

you know the mid-20s. This was 2008, dude, a different time. That's true, it was a different time. When Rhode Island was much bigger. When Rhode Island was king. Before Rhode Island had fought that war against California and lost all that territory. Yeah, the reparations they had to pay. It was crazy. Yeah, yeah. So anyway, he goes, I'm going to be

appointed to the cabinet, you're going to replace me as governor, but she knows she's got a problem. Uh-oh. She goes to Anne Helen for help. She goes to Helen's bar slash restaurant. So, Stuart, you must have loved this, seeing that she's a drinks and food salesman, mostly drinks, right? Drinks and food saleswoman. She's like, what do I have to do to get you into a burrito today? What do I have to say?

Can I get it without cilantro? Oh, they put that into the factory. I'm so sorry. A, B, C. Always be chomping. Is that what Glenn Gary, Glenn Ross, starring Jabberjaw is about? So, unfortunately, her dad is there, and she gets really flustered. She does not want to see him.

No leads, no leads. If only you gave us the Glenn Gary leads. The, so, they, we also meet her security detail, Kumail Nanjiani, as Nash, the guy who is her devoted bodyguard. that because her dad is at Ellen's, that means we get at Helens, not Ellen's, I'm sorry, Ellen's would be by the book, the bookstore that Ellen DeGeneres owned

in the TV show Ellen, I apologize. This is Helens. So Ella flashes back to her mom's funeral and she's mad when a, one of the mourners is clearly someone. She's mad because Rebecca Hall's not in the movie anymore. I mean, I was mad that Rebecca Hall wasn't the movie.

She's like, sorry, I got to go talk to King Kong some more. And I'm like, you can do so much more than that. Sorry, I have not. no patience for your wig options. She goes, she goes, she's mad that one of her dad's, um, like lovers has come by to grieve and Ella refuses to cry in from everybody. She has her brother stand guard outside of her bedroom so she can cry inside and then they cry together.

Um, it's a sad scene. There's no, and I think Helen might cry too. Uh, it's a lot of crying. So Ella goes to see her dad. It's awkward between them. And he goes, I met another woman. She wants me to make amends and with my kids. and Ella gets upset and storms out.

And Ella reveals her aunt what her secret is. Uh-oh. What is the devastating secret that could sink her political career before it's barely even started? It turns out that she and her husband Ryan, who you may know as River from Slow Horses.

Yay. Yeah. She and her husband Ryan, they have it hard time finding time to be together and they want to raise a family. So at lunchtime, she will meet him at a city-owned apartment and they will have sex during lunch.

and that's the scandal. Yeah. What's that called, Dan? That's called, what's that? Well, in this case, apparently it's misappropriation of funds because like- Public property, yeah. They're using, yeah, a public property for a private matter. Oh, and also her name is in the Epstein files.

We should mention that. That's the other problem, yeah. Oh, God. Not all in the case. She was the best of us. Oh, no, she was. No, I mean, the movie, to its credit, knows that this is not a big deal. becomes a big deal when a river the idiot husband tries to cover it up.

But, you know, it is one of these cases where you see what you're talking about, Elliot, that Ella is so rigid that she's like freaking out over this non-issue. Yeah. Like, makes it an issue for herself. But like, oh, I got to get ahead of this. You know, like, no one would have known that it's misappropriation to like, they were just like, oh, okay, a married couple. Had sex.

Oh, terrible. And now, and later in the movie, they're like, your poll numbers are up now that people know about it. But there's a reporter who's blackmailing her saying that he wants special access to her, I guess, in exchange. And she's like, no, I refuse. When in reality, this seems like the easiest thing you could possibly do. It's like, yeah, I'll give you an interview.

Sure. But also. So I think after, yeah, after this is revealed, she, you know, she meets with her husband to talk about it. And there's a scene where they, it's just after they've had sex. and they're lying in bed together. And she is like a really weird scarf tied around her neck. And I'm like, what is going on? I have to assume it's just like in League of Extraordinary Gentlemen,

the comics where Mina always has a scarf around her neck to cover the scars from when Dracula bit her. And when she is having sex with Alan Quatermain, it comes loose and he sees how horribly she's been scarred by the count. She does seem like someone Dracula would bite. Oh, for sure. Oh, for sure. To seduce and corrupt a pure soul like hers. Oh, he would love that. He'd love that shit.

He totally get Ryan drunk to have him sign a contract. He says it's three days. He gets his wife, yeah. Wow. Now at this point, you may be asking yourself, Ella McKay, your husband signed contract. His pizza place, and I get you. Well, Dracula, I don't think this contract's going to hold up in court.

Oh, no, what am I going to do? This is hard for me, but I'm pushing through it. Okay, Dracula. Actually, now I wish that was the moment. movie we were watching. Well, this kind of ties into what I was going to say. What an amazing movie this would have been if it's like, well, well, Ella, I'm going to be in the cabinet.

So you're a lieutenant governor now, but Dracula's in town. Oh, no, I'm going to have to deal with that. That would be great. I've just been governor for a day and I've got to deal with Dracula. It's a big deal in Rhode Island. Yeah, he has a lot of history with Rhode Island. Not all of it good. Let's just say that.

Well, he came to America. It was mad. It wasn't an island. That was the first thing. This is very much part of the main. land. I have not been this lied to since I went to Greenland. Oh man, don't get him started. Don't put him in front of a fucking brick wall.

We'll be here all night. I have two drives that obsess me. One is corrupting the world so I can be returned to my true love who died centuries ago. I have swam oceans of time to find her. And the other is misidentification of geographical

features. And one? Why is there a West Virginia when there is only a Virginia? Why does Virginia get to be Virginia? But West Virginia has to be West Virginia. Well, Dracula, it has to do with the history. In East Virginia. Well, Dracula, has to do with the history of that state during the Civil War. We can get into it.

There was a very good reason. Dracula, now I'm just immortal, and I can keep telling you about how West Virginia is split from Virginia. Oh, no. Oh, no. I'm stuck with this guy. Oh, no. Not a drip. I have to, the judge said I have to be his butler for a month.

Well, sorry, the thing I wanted to mention a long time ago is the listener probably at this point is thinking of themselves. Yeah. What is Ellen McKay about? I don't know. Well, guess what, Dan? Because we're about to get a totally different storyline because Ella's brother Casey is not talking to her. And she has to figure that out. So she says, I'm going to go to my brothers. We're going to skip the scene rant. Helen is mad at his, her dad, because who cares. on the way to Casey's apartment Nash tries to talk to Ella about how his mom fell in a pool once

and is a story that is totally pointless but it makes Ella laugh and it feels like the movie is trying very hard to hint at an emerging romance between these characters without actually having it happen and so it's it felt like they were the movie was edging me

with the implication of possible romance than never actually going into it. At the end without getting ahead of ourselves Kumail ends up working the same place where Ella is working. And I guess we're supposed to infer maybe that they're, you know, something's happening. But it is never expressed. No.

So back at her office, Governor Bill says he's officially resigning. I'm going to be Secretary of the Interior. I have to deal with the fact that Dracula thinks this is an island and is real mad about it. So you're governor until the next election. And she says, hey, before you leave, I need you to get votes for this aid for expectant mothers bill that I want to pass. It's the kind of bill that I think in 2008 was the kind of thing that a liberal Democrat would put a lot of stake into is like, we need prenatal care and counseling for expectant mothers. Whereas now in 2026, the big issues for Democrats are how do we get a mad king out of the, off the throne of the country? How do we stop people from being shot in the streets by masked thugs?

But in 2008, a simpler time. And how do we complain about it in a way where we're not being like, shrill or annoying. Yeah, exactly. When they don't, well, that's not even getting started that. So he tells her, he says, people find you annoying. And you need to fix that. Your job is making dumb people not feel dumb.

And if you want to get anything accomplished, you've got to do that. And she goes out to greet reporters. The news is already broken. Her husband, Ryan, shows up and twirls her in the hallway. They dance a little bit. Her husband, it's set up here. She's very rigid. She's very noble, but in a way that is off-putting to people.

and he is just kind of loosey-goosey, the fun guy in the relationship. Flashback to 17 years earlier, glad we're flashing back again. They're high school significant others. More wigs. More wigs. This is like the most complex screenplay structure for just a simple dromity. It's like as if Memento was just about a dude. And like there was no stuff about memory loss. There was nothing about his wife possibly having been murdered.

And it was just about a guy going about his day. but still cut up and down like it was the lymie, you know, or something like that. So they flashback to Helen catching teenage Ryan, who again looks like an adult wearing a wig, sneaking out of Ella's bedroom. Helen confronts Ella about it and gives her a little speech about how this is the first time Ella has lied to her when she says that she hasn't slept with this guy or whatever. But everything turns out okay.

Their love is undeniable. And while she's walking down the street and Helen yells, did you use a Johnny? Yeah. And all the neighbors are like, what? And the neighbors were like, who's Johnny? She said. Yeah, they're all rocking.

Yeah. So Ellen Ryan have a scene where he talks about how great she is. Then she goes to college and he's just showing up all the time pretending to be riding a horse. And she is charmed by this, even though it seemed like the kind of thing a maniac does. Like it seemed borderline sociopathic that he just keeps showing up every weekend at college to like goof off in front of her and make her laugh. But I guess when she's down, he was her clown. You know, and so they get married. He buries the hatchet with Helen because he loves Ella so much.

And, you know, and they have their wedding ceremony. And I think one thing I liked here, their wedding was believably under attended. There were not a lot of people at the wedding. And I was like, okay, I buy that. This is not a 400-person wedding, something like that. Well, she doesn't have a lot of friends, although everybody loves her. And she doesn't have much family. She's easy to love.

She's hard to like. Yeah. I will say this about, so their relationship, like, it's one of these cases where he is portrayed as like kind of a doofus, like maybe it's a red flag. Maybe even a little bit of a goofus. He's not a gallant, that's for sure. It's a red flag that he's so fixated on her at the beginning, you know.

But his heel turn is so extreme. It's pretty wild. I'm like, I don't know that this is the same man that we were introduced to earlier. No, no, but it's because his heel turn is under the influence of Becky Ann Baker, his ambitious mother, who's the Lady Macbeth of Rhode Island, I guess. And I have to admit, if Becky Ann Baker was like, you need to do this. I'd be like, yes, ma'am, I will. I'm sorry.

Of course I will. So back to... I'll have my husband, the lizard, get that you. He never got to me the lizard, Dan. He was only heard Connors. Or my brother Joe Don Baker. He carries around a two by four and whacks people with it. I go, I go, ah, a monster.

She goes, no, I'm just wearing the work of my other brother, Rick Baker. So, back to me. to 2008, which again is the present of the movie, people are in favor of Governor Ella. They love the footage of her dancing with her husband in the hallways. Remember, this is 2008 when people liked nice things and when things were, people liked being

happy as opposed to now, when people prefer to be angry all the time. And he goes, I'll solve this reporter problem. And it turns out Ryan was the one, this is a husband Ryan, who revealed their lunch sex habit to the reporter, and he says, hey, you got to enjoy this promotion. You got to enjoy it. He seems real creepy at this point to me.

Ella calls. Why did he reveal it? Was he just bragging? I think he was just bragging that he had sex. I'm not sure. I'm not quite sure why he did it. I get it. I mean, it seems like he's just kind of a...

It's like Dan, he's kind of a duff. Maybe he didn't know that he was spilling something partly dangerous, I don't know. He's still a slow horse, you know? He's much slower. Well, actually, you know what? It fits with... In slow horses, his whole problem is that he's super competent,

but he always jumps the gun. He's always too quick to run into action. So it's kind of similar here. Yeah, Jack Loudon is just the guy who does things too quickly, you know. Okay, so Ella calls Helen. They briefly argue about Ryan before they cry together again. There's a lot of Ella and Helen crying together. And I wish the movie made that more of like a running gag.

It seems to take it, I think, sincerely each time. But it starts to get funny how often they just cry together. Ella tells Nash she wants him staying on her security detail. She does not want the governor's official security. Every time you say Nash, I think you're talking about Nash Bridges. Is that weird? No, no, I mean, there is basically just one Nash. I mean, there's Nisi Nash, but Nash Bridges.

Come on, there's Graham Nash. Like, there are other Nashes, but at this point. You think Nash Bridges. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. If you're going to Nash, you think Bridges. If you're making a trailer for an episode of Nash Bridges. I don't always Nash, but when I do, I bridge this.

If you're making a trailer for a show called Nash Bridges, you know it's just people saying Nash over there. But here's the thing. You know what? I'll buy it with that because it's John Johnson, right, as Nash Bridges? If there's anyone who's reached that level of, his character could just have his name said over and over again. Guys.

Yeah. Guys. I got a money-making scheme. Okay. We make a documentary about Nashville's bridges. The bridges in the city of Nashville called Nash Bridges. We put it up. Watch the money roll in.

It's our own mockbuster. It's a doc-buster. You're right, Dan. Because also, Nash Bridges is still a huge hit. A huge current hit. Yeah, it's still enormous. Does Nashville have bridges in it? There must be at least one, right?

I've never been there. You've got to be. It's like if you have a character named Jag, the whole trailer is going to be nothing but people saying Jag over and over. Again, Jag is his job. He's a judge advocate general in the Navy. His name is not Jaguar.

You're thinking of the show Dagg, starring David Allen Greer. Yeah. He refers to a Jaguar because the show is about the first Jaguar ever to serve in the Navy for the United States. I don't know if we should keep him on an aircraft carrier store. He is a job.

Jaguar. So anyway, so... That was your Jaguar. Yeah, no, it's good. And then, I don't know what they sound like. I think it's after sex that Ella tells Ryan, she doesn't want to move into the governor's mansion right away. And he's clearly disappointed.

He wants to live the life of the first gentleman of the state of whatever state this is. He wants to be Todd Palin so badly. And I wonder if that's what the inspiration for this character was. I mean, certainly nothing in the modern world is an inspiration for this movie. it feels so far out of time in a way that's really unfortunate. It feels like it's weird because 30 years from now,

if anyone watches this, I don't think they'll recognize that it's like a time capsule movie necessarily, the same way that. I remember it was, what's his face who did? Richard Link later once, I think I heard him talk about the movie.

Some came running, which is a movie that it was made in the 50s, but is set in kind of the late 40s. And for people at the time, they'd be like, oh, this is a period piece, but now it's hard to tell the difference. And I wonder if this kind of feels like it is a period piece,

but it's also not that period enough. He's not really saying anything about 2008. It feels more like James O'Brooks made a James R. Brooks movie, and people were like, this isn't how politics works anymore, James. He goes, okay, well, it's set in 2008. I don't give shit. Whatever. Yeah, I mean, it feels like he had a screenplay that he wrote a while back

and finally got the chance to, he was like, I'll just put a flashback. I'll have Julie Kavanaugh say, like, it was a more magical time when we all liked each other still. And I'm like, I don't know if that was true. Excuse me. Excuse me, Gonzo the great. This is Julie Kavanaugh's part.

Oh, shucks. Camilla, let's get out of here. What if, what if, so, okay, so here's the, here's the bit you need to do, Dan. This is your stand-up bit is. Okay. So, finally, at age 47, I'm going to get to stand-up. Marge Simpson is calling Homer Simpson for phone sex. Well, Gonzo is calling Camilla for phone sex, and the lines get crossed.

Suddenly, Gunzo is talking to Homer, and Marge is talking to Camilla. And it's a mysterys of misunderstandings because they don't know at first that the lines have been crossed. It's kind of a Newhart situation. Exactly. It's like, I call it a double Newhart because you have to do multiple parts.

Whereas Newhart would just do one part. And of course, Newhart, he would refer to it as a Shelley Berman, I suppose. Since Shelley Berman said that Bob Newhart stole his act, even though Shelley Berman didn't invent the talking on the telephone act. George Jessel had done one before

Shelley Berman did. So anyway, moving back to Ella McKay. This is all of very important information. This will all be in your new book. Joke information to fall asleep to. Yeah, my new book, joke boring. How to be dull talking about comedy. So anyway, it's inauguration day.

Ella's speech is as honest and strident as it is not poetic. It's long. And the voters love her. They're applauding the legislators do not like her. They're like boo. They're literally booing her. Casey is not there. And Ryan is...

He's at the bad. And Ryan is miffed that she didn't thank him in the speech. And one of the few jokes that I thought was really funny in this was the governor has a slip of paper passed to her that says, thank me. And then as the speech goes on, he passes another slip up that says, don't mention me.

Or just like, mention me and like, don't mention me. And I thought that was funny. But Ryan is like, you didn't thank me in the speech. So what this tells me is that this movie is actually based on Hillary Swank's Oscar win when she forgot to thank her husband in her speech.

So there's just so many, this is a rich tech. a rich tapestry. It's like Ulysses. It's pulling from all these different things. And the annotated LMAK will be very, will be very informative. Helpful, yeah.

Yeah. So she skips out on the donor's meeting so she can see her brother. Her brother, Casey. Can you guys describe Casey for me? What's he like? Like a floppy-haired guy. Yeah, okay.

He's a floppy-haired guy. I mean, he's your typical pop culture, like, tech guy who's not, you know, who's awkward in society. Overstimulated, low impulse control. He has a gorephobia. He's kind of a shut in by choice.

He is very clear that he is not an agoraphobic, but that he chooses to be inside his apartment all the time. And he talks with one of these kind of like, you know, you stand it. Rhode Island accents, yeah. I'm vaguely East Coastie, Rhode Island. No one else has that accent in the entire movie, but he really pours it on.

And she goes to meet him. He plays a phone message from their dad's new girlfriend. who that feels is surprisingly emotional and Ella is just kind of starts to she's just trying to she won't leave him alone basically

she's like why aren't you talking to me what's going on what's going what's going she accidentally drinks her brother's cannabis drink and also eats his pot cookie uh oh he's too busy to stop her because he's running his online sports betting advice job

where he makes $2 million a year at first he seems to think that she knows what she's drinking because she's like there's cannabis stuff all over the can But of course she's a square. She doesn't even think about it. And you think this is setting her up for a scene

where she has to meet with the donors while hi. Instead, no. She says, I'm just going to stay at my brother's house. Few, funny scene of herded. I'm glad we didn't have to sit through that possible comic invention. A scene where she's like talking to somebody and then their head morphs into like a bughead. You're like, what?

Have you smoked pots too? Yeah, all the time. And then it sets up, you know, like, outside Kumil. Tell us about the real main story of the movie. Yeah.

A lot, there's a long scene where Kumail's partner is like, Kumail's partner played by James Elbrooks' son. I want, you know,

he's not bad. He's not bad in this part. No. No, he's good, but he's like very keyed in, obsessed with getting overtime because of the extra money

they'll get and how, like, he's, he has problems with alimony and he doesn't have any money. to take his kids anywhere, so he just wants the overtime. And Kamel's like, no, no, no, we should just leave, you know, and clock out.

But they end up having a tremendous amount of overtime. And then, like, they get dressed down for it and Kamail takes the hit. But it's, I saw someone online. I think it was actually Henry Gilbert from the Talking Simpsons podcast. I was talking about how, like, this is a real marker of, like, centrist, like, budget hawk Democrats of the time where she's, like, dressed. him down about like getting this overtime. Paying the rent right now and you're you're squeezing the state for overtime for one night.

And it is a, this is one of those scenes where this guy also needs money. Yeah, but also we learn so much more about this guy's life than we do about Aunt Helen than we do about Nash. That like it's, it's amazing how much time has spent on this character. And it means nothing. It goes nowhere. They have this dressing down scene and Nash takes the blame. If anything, it makes them more sympathetic. Yeah.

And it's a, I kind of wish, if this movie had been about, there's one woman in government who is so noble and so principled that she kind of doesn't see how government really works, which is that everybody is just not in a scheming, conniving way, but everyone's trying to figure out how to make things work best for themselves. Like, I kind of wish that this was her security detail guy doing this and that, you know, her Julie Kavanaugh had her own little thing on the side that she was doing. Like, I wish that it was, that sounds like a funnier movie to me, you know, that she's kind of oblivious to the low level who gives a shit corruption that's going on. Well, it's certainly more complex if, like, some of the sympathetic characters are allowed to be, you know, scheming in some way. Yeah. As opposed to there's three noble people in all of Rhode Island, Ella McKay, Nash, and Julie Kavanaugh and everyone else is like, but even the people who are kind of corrupt and play games of politics are not that bad. You know, they're not, they're not evil. It's just, which is probably more real, I don't know.

Mainly stupid, yeah. They remain, or, yeah, or they're just kind of like misguided or something like that, which again feels naive in the way that I hate to get political again, but like the people in the government now and the federal government are genuinely evil people who want to do bad things. It's not just that they're like misguided and they don't know what they're doing, you know. So anyway, but we get a lot of time on this overtime subplot, which is two scenes of not very much.

Ryan explores the governor mansion. He loves it, but Elle's going to stay at Casey's for the night. And she just lies on his couch and gets high and talks about her feelings. and Casey is so annoyed and does not want to listen to any of this. She goes on a political rant about her pet project, which is tooth tutors, which are volunteer dentists in rural areas, I think North Carolina, and she wants to bring that toward island. And the movie seems to think tooth tutors is such a funny phrase.

Later on, Julie Cadner is even like, tooth tutors. It's so fun to say. I mean, her character is high, right? So that would make sense. But I think the movie seems to think that we're going to like that too. And Casey reveals he makes a lot of money, and he's agoraphobic by choice. He chooses to be a shut-in, but we're going to learn later that there's a real reason

why he is afraid of leaving the apartment. And it is a story that I think I read one review that said would have been left on the cutting room floor for time in any other movie. But we'll get to that one. Ryan's mom, Becky Ann Baker, she's really mad that Ryan didn't get mentioned in the speech. And she's like Lady Macbethingham.

She's like, you've got to demand a role in the government. And it feels like she's even like, it's in the pizza parlor after clothes. The pizza parlor they own, yeah. Yeah, and it feels like she is lit in a way to be evil. Like, she is lit like from below. And this scene has maybe my favorite character in the whole movie, which is Ryan's dad, who she goes,

you don't want to be like your father. And he's like, and he's in the back and he goes, what? And she goes, never mind, never mind. And she's leaving. He goes, love you. And he's just like this very well-meaning old man who seems perfectly happy folding boxes after hours at a pizza place. You know, I liked him a lot.

So the next day, Ella calls a press conference. First, she gets mad at Nash and the other guy for racking up their overtime pay. Again, this goes nowhere. Ella tells the press about how she had sex at the office. Ryan is so mad about it. He's like, what did you do? And Ella goes to talk to Casey at his place. We learned that Casey is upset because a year ago, he told his girlfriend that he only wanted to be with her,

and he was moving a little too fast, and he was afraid that she was going to ghost him. So he changed his phone number so that he wouldn't have to think about how she's not calling him. And now it's a year later and he's still fixated on her and she gives him some advice. And this is again, it's almost like James O. Brooks was like, having sex in the government office with your husband at lunch, she didn't even do it during work hours. She did it during lunch. But having that during lunch is such a non-issue that's not really that big a problem. How do we make Casey's problem even less of an issue, even less?

less of a problem than that. How do we de-escalate and de-heighten even more? So how did you guys feel about this revelation that he has been agitated for a year about his inability to talk to this girl he had liked? What was the weird way he expressed it to the... He says something about how like when you're dating, you meet a lot of people and he doesn't want to meet anybody else. Like he just wants to date her.

Something like that. What he said was not as... It was also not... When he repeats it, it doesn't sound as extreme to me. It is moving fast, I guess. I don't know how long they were dating for. Right. It's not like he said, he doesn't even say.

Well, you just talk so much about how awkward it was and like, I guess that's awkward, but not. It feels like the shorthand for this would be if he said, I loved, I told her I love her at the end of the first date or something like that. Then I'd be like, oh, okay, I get it. But the words I love you where I love her never come up. They're never mentioned. And so it felt like, I don't know. It seems like he was just asking her to go steady, which is weird for an adult to do, kind of. But I usually, I don't know about you guys, but I feel like you just kind of fall into it.

You don't usually make a big deal out of it, but I don't know. Well, I mean, I think it's not uncommon to ask, you know, I don't want to see anybody else. Yeah, that's true. Do you want to be exclusive, you know? Yes. Oh, you say, I only want to see other people. You say, I don't want to see anybody else. So I'm going to put a blindfold on when I have sex with other women.

And it goes, all right, literally, that makes sense. I mean, you're following the word of what you said, you know, the letter of the law. Oh, you're using Decovney's law. With Coveney's Law was the short-lived TV show Where he would have sexually people with a line bolt on And he's a judge Yeah, he's also a judge, yeah His catchphrase was, join me in my chambers

And his other one was justice is blind Yeah, time to disrobe He would say time to take off disrobe That's what he would say, yeah Oh, okay And then someone would call him and he'd say New Roeb, who dis? And they'd be like, I don't understand, that doesn't make sense

Oh, you didn't hear what I said before. It kind of makes it work better. But not that much. So it turns out Ella's poll numbers are up. They're calling her Little Miss Nooner. People love the idea that she is getting it on during lunch with her husband. She goes to see her dad narrowly missing, running with what I think is supposed to be his new girlfriend,

but it's never made quite clear. And the voice of her new girlfriend on the phone is Tracy Oman. And that's not Tracy Oman. I think it's walking out of the building. So it was one of those, it was almost like a moment out of a movie like Vertigo, where she's just seeing her she's seeing her dad's girlfriend everywhere. But it doesn't, the moment was kind of strange.

Anyway, she tells him, stop calling Casey. And he goes, my girlfriend told me, she's going to break up with me unless I apologize to everybody that I've committed misdeeds against. And he has a long list of apologies to make. And she goes, did you cheat on mom when she was dying? And he goes, not really. And she walks out.

It's not really is not a good answer for that. Guys, I forget. Is this the last scene with Woody Heraldson? It is not the last scene with Lee Harrison. We do get a resolution with him. We'll talk about that. There's one more big scene between Woody Harrelson and Ella, but he disappears for a while from the movie.

And why not? He shouldn't be in the movie. The story does, it's like James L. Brooks didn't have a full story, but he had like eight half stories. And he thought that it's like he's making dinner out of just what's in the fridge. He doesn't have a recipe. He didn't have a main idea.

But he's like, I'll put in a little bit of pasta, a little bit of the chicken that's left over. I'll put in a little bit of rice. Here's some old gyrkins. I'll throw those in. Here's the thing. Even in his best movies, there are a lot of threads going on

in James L. Brooks movies. And they don't always like, like other movies wouldn't have them. But usually they're tied together like with some strong central idea that like, I mean, you know, it's something, sometimes it just comes into the end. Like terms of endearment like feels sort of unfocused

until everyone has to focus on like the crisis. The crisis, you know, like one... Crisis on infinite Earths. Someone gets sick. Someone's dying. Yeah. Like, broadcast news is brought together kind of by like a thesis statement about the news. But it is, it does sort of spiral in a lot of different directions.

Like, here it feels like he never found the thing that was going to, like, tie it all up. Yeah, I think you're right. There's like not a strong theme here. And also, in those movies, the characters feel so real. They feel so alive. Even like, in terms of deemant, like, it's Jeff Daniels, right, who's in that, like, Or is it John Lithgow? Who plays the like husband or ex-husband or whatever?

Lithgow's in it, I know. I can't remember the whole cast. I got to watch again. I can't remember who's in it and is not in it. But I feel like what I'm saying is like even the side characters feel like full people, you know? They feel like they're real characters. Jeff Daniels and John Lithgow are both in it. I don't know who.

Oh, boy. Oh, they play brothers. That's right. They play twin brothers who change places and they're both kind of colleges. Jeff Daniels is Deborah Winger's husband. He's the husband, right? of a, his name is Flap Horton. Flap Horton.

You gotta have a good movie if you're gonna name your character, Flap Horton. Like that movie's gotta be so good. You gotta have stones and pull that shit off. But like, those characters feel like real characters. Remember when the trailer came out for terms of endearment and it was just people saying, flap, flap, flap.

Everybody's talking about Flap Horton. Flap! Yeah, that's the other thing is a lot of times in those commercials, they don't do any more because they don't have VO. The old ones, they'd have everyone saying the name and the V-O-go is everybody's talking about. and so. It's like, well, yeah, everyone in the movie. I don't understand. Like, you could make a movie about

my brother and just have people going, David, David, because they're people who know him. Like, that's why we talk about him. We're talking to him, you know. But anyway, it's not like that you don't open up, you don't turn on the news and people are like, David, you know. I mean, they are at the time of King David. Oh, really? I mean, yeah. Did you hear he's

back in the news again? He's back in the news again. That's weird. Yeah. People are still mad about him having that affair with Beth, Shiba. Yeah. So the, where were we in this thing? Oh, so anyway, so we'll go back. The cleanest Shiba.

Casey gets the courage to leave his apartment. He's going to go call his ex-girlfriend. Meanwhile, Ryan confronts Ella. He's like, why didn't you check with me before you revealed the sex stuff? And they argue, and he goes, this marriage isn't working for me. And he's like, everybody's going to think I have nothing bare to do than have sex with my wife in the afternoon. I'm like, yeah. You don't.

But it's also like he also runs a pizza chain. he has a job. It's not like he's just sitting around. You have a non-traditional work schedule bro. Take advantage of it. He says, I already took care of it. I gave a check to the reporter to kill the story. And she's like, a check. He's like, yeah. Like, why do you think he asked for a check? Well, because people

don't want to carry that much cash around. And he didn't realize because he's a moron that you shouldn't do a payoff and put your name on it. Much like the check to a prostitute that sunk Jerry Springer's political career back when he was the boy mayor of Cleveland. So he says that if she

doesn't give him, oh, he gives her like a little written speech she's supposed to read, which basically says, I'm going to share governing duties with my husband. You get two for one, and he's going to be great. You're going to love it. And she goes, so you're going to co-govern the state? And he goes, yes. And if I don't get that, this marriage is over. And she says, good.

And he goes, I'm going to give you a messy public divorce. And she goes, if you wouldn't, you don't even like me. If you liked me a little bit, you wouldn't even threaten that. And it's like, well, everyone throughout the movie has been telling you, you shouldn't be married to this guy. So it's, but it is true. But this heel turn is so extreme. It goes from, wait, but I really want all the trappings of being a governor's husband. I want to feel important to, look, if I'm not running this state, then we are done.

It is over. And it feels like a big leap. And I wish that, again, the movie could have made comic hay out of how big a leap this is, how big his demand has gotten from where it was before. But instead, it's treated very seriously, very dramatically, you know. She goes to her first staff meeting. They applaud her and she snaps and goes, Don't applaud, don't applaud, and they all feel bad.

And then she goes to calm herself down. Casey goes to his ex-girlfriend's house and this is I-O Edibiri from the bear as Susan. Who has a very weary affect here. Yes, well, this scene... I would do. Like, how do I make...

I'm not saying it's not unearned. How do I make this scene work? How do I make what is a wild scene? I don't think you can make this scene work. Emotionally coherent. He is so awkward and she is so aggravated And she's trying so hard to get him out of her apartment She's like, let's go to this restaurant, I know

And it's so clear And he basically, he seems like a psychopath And he just is like, you got to be my girlfriend And she eventually under duress it feels like says yes And instantly feels weird about it And I was like this whole scene made me feel I was very upset by it It made me feel very uncomfortable, yeah

Not only should this scene have been cut For you know plot and time reasons Yeah The scene should be cut because it is absolutely unworked It wants us to believe that this is like just a wacky, young, good-hearted man. He's adorable. Express himself. And what he has done is he is like bullied his way back into this woman's apartment.

And like to talk about a relationship that ended like, what, a year ago? And ended because he ghosted her, you know. Yeah. He's entirely in the wrong, but he's just supposed to be so kind of cute and adorably awkward and clumsy. And it is, I make the joke about that say anything is a movie about stalking. Because she's like, we can't be together. And then he shows up outside her house blasting the song they had sex to, which is a hostile act, I think. But within, but they still have feelings for each other.

So within the world of the movie. Would it be funny if it was a crazier song, though? Like it was like big butts that I can't not lie. Or if what would, yeah, what would the- Romp Shaker by Rexman Effect? What would be, I mean, it's got to be a butt-related song probably, right? But what would be a, or if it was like, or if it was like, it's baby beluga. Yeah, it's Alex F by Crazy Frog.

That would be so funny. And you're like, that's the, also she has to do with the trauma, that being the song that they lost the virginity too, you know? Yeah. But this, it's, it is taking the uncomfortable kind of subtext of that and making it the text of this scene. And she, the way she is playing it,

it really feels like she has been beaten down and not one over. Like, she has really been, like, worn down and is, like, has become a, it's like, within one scene, Stockholm syndrome has set in. And we later see them, there's just a shot of them sitting and eating dinner laughing. And I, but you see it from outside. And I have to imagine, she's like, he, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

Please, let me go. Her phone, she's typed 911, and the fingers hovering above the call button. I think it's a, it's just, a, just such. a misreading of the emotion. You have to understand, this kid's a millionaire. He is a millionaire. That's true. But I don't know if she knows that. He doesn't dress like a millionaire, that's for sure.

Wow. You think he could afford a haircut. Not every place is L.A., Elliot. We don't all have to show off what we make. Sorry, Stuart. Did you say that? The peacockiest peacock? I know.

So anyway, Ryan Ryan tells the press that Ella was the one who said they should pay off the reporter. Meanwhile, on the staff meeting, it's gone all day. Her staff is literally asleep in their chairs as she rambles on around about the programs. The press bursts into the room, knocking Ella over, giving her a concussion, it's said later. Nash gets her out, drives her away. It's a real Kevin Costner, Whitney Houston bodyguard moment. And Ella is like, no, it's not the reporter's fault.

Wait, when you say a bodyguard moment, is that because they drop a silk scarf over a katyn? Oh, yeah. That's exactly why. That's so hot, right? Yeah. Well, because they represent the male and female parts. The sexiest thing to Stewart. It was a sharp.

It was a sword. It's a metaphor for the softness of the penis and the hard steel of the vagina. Yeah. So, Elle excuses the reporter. She's like, no, they're working under hard constraints too, and it's difficult for them.

So why did he just drive her into nowhere? Like, they didn't have a... No, he's just trying to get her away from all those people. You know, again, it's the kind of thing that to me is coded as, if this is a romantic comedy, now I'm going to get you away from all this noise and hubbub. We're going to have a moment together, and it's when we're going to realize our feelings for each other. Talk about my mom falling out of a chair again. I'll tell you another story about my mom falling out of a chair into a pool.

But Ella, excusing the reporters is one of these things where I'm like, oh, yeah, this is one of the things that was wrong with 2008 liberal democratic thinking was, and I feel like I have this instinct, too, to look at it from another person's point of view and excuse their behavior and be like, oh, well, they're under pressures too. Instead of doing kind of what we need to do now, which is to be like, that's bad. Don't do that. Come on.

You know, so anyway, but it's supposed to show what a sweet person she is. Casey's date was going great. They're just laughing, like I said. Ella has Nash take her to Helens, and Ella refuses to let herself scream in frustration. She just won't let a scream out because if she screams, maybe she'll never stop.

Governor Bill shows up, with the party leadership, and they all convene at Helens, and they tell them that Ryan's claims have sunk her. They want her to resign right away. And Albert Brooks takes her outside and gives her ridiculously conflicting it. Or not conflicting advice, but he's like, he's like, you should resign because the politicians hate you and they'll go after you. But you've got all this leverage.

So you should use that leverage, you know, to get something. This is a good scene to me. This is like, I mean. It's one of the better scenes for sure. In large part because Albert Brooks is in it. Yeah. And he knows how to do. this sort of thing in general, but also particularly with James L. Brooks material, he knows how to play it.

And, like, it is him as a politician who, unlike L. McKay, like, knows what needs to be done to stay a politician. And so he's like, I have to protect my own interests. I cannot help you, but I will wink, like, say a thing that might help you. Well, I think there's a deeper idea in this movie that I wish that it was playing more with, which is, that Ella McKay is honest and noble and principled, and she gets nowhere with her projects and people don't like her. Whereas Governor Bill, played by Albert Brooks or Governor Bob, no, give her a bill.

He is painted as a guy. He can play the game and is focused on playing the game and voters love him. He's walking across the street and a guy honks and is like, hey, Governor Bill, we love you. And so it's the idea that in a democracy, you got to know how to play the game. And I feel like this movie is circling that idea

and is not quite, it kind of gets, there at the end, but not quite getting there. But like, that would be a theme. Like, that's a theme for this. It would mean jettisoning Casey and his girlfriend. It would mean jettisoning. Oh, my good stuff. It's so good.

It gets to a theme that, frankly, I do not care for, at least not at this moment in history, where it's like, well, maybe she can do better outside the government. Like, maybe, like, she can do good. And it's like, fuck you. Like, this is, like, how we get so many shitty politicians and so little things. faith in, like, the government being able to change and, like, frankly, conservative thinking of like, oh, it should all be privatized, you know. And also, and also conservative thing that should be privatized and voter thinking that,

well, all government is scum and slime anyway, you know, so we just got to tear it all down. We got to rip it all apart. When in reality, if anything, this movie is a show of a functioning government. I mean, there seem to be no problems in the state. There are things that could be better. But when she comes in, they're not like, we're running out of tax money. Oh, crime is up. It seems like Governor Bill has done a top-notch job of turning this little state into a big success story.

He looked that whole nooner scandal happened under his nose. That really should be late at his feet. I mean, when the biggest story in the state is one, new governor dances with husband in hallway. And then two, new governor had sex with husband at lunch on government property. Like this state is doing great. Like there are no problems in the state right now. And when you can make $2 million a year, just advising people on sports betting. then you know what the economy's working right

what's his what's his platform like patreon or something what's he doing I know he has a lot of computer screens with graphs on them but I don't really know how he's working otherwise yeah maybe he has a newsletter every time he boots it up he's like I'm in he just pours himself a glass of wine dances around while he hacks into the system yeah exactly so that's a swordfish reference never seen it

oh it don't admit that we're going to screen it at nighthawk prospect park It was my way of setting you up to plug it. I don't know when the... Well, I can't plug it. I don't know when the date is. It's a Thursday coming up in March. There's no, and there's no way of knowing what Thursday is.

No possible way. Well, Stuart's on it. I'm continuing to talk. I'm vamping, like Dracula. Thursday, March 26. So you're saying, Dracula's always like, well, they're not ready yet. So let me just tell you about what else has going on in the castle.

I've seen swordfish. So I'll play the role of the expert, and Stuart will play the role. of like funny... The novice, yeah. Novice guy. So he's your apprentice. It's a real...

What's that Game of Thrones show? The guy and the other and the kid, the knight and the stuff. The guy and the kid, the night and his stuff. The Night of the Seven Kingdom? Yeah, that's what it is. Night of Seven Kingdoms. Based on the hedge knight

and the other Dunkin Egg stories? Yeah, I haven't watched it yet. So anyway... I can go for a Dunkin Egg right about now. So Ella says, I'm not going to resign unless you pass these programs that I've wanted throughout the movie.

That's right. The pre-nable... It'll care. That's right. Tooth tutors. And Ella's dad shows up and says, please forgive me. And she goes, no, I'm not going to.

And Julie Kavanaer says, sometimes not forgiving someone can be just as satisfying as forgiving them. And Helen and Ella talk about their anger at Ryan, and they finally scream together. Let me tell you, not a surprise. Jamie Curtis is good at screaming. You know what?

Has she ever made a movie where she screams a lot? She's one of the real queens of screams. She's one of the original queens of screams. Did you see that tour? Yes, it was amazing. I got a headache after a while. I got to admit, but still, if you don't get a headache at the screen, Queen's true,

you're not doing it right. Heather Langen King, Jamie Lee Curtis, Linnea Quigley, Barbara Crampton. They were, they did an amazing job. It's a great show. Yeah, three hours. I don't know how they.

Yeah. The documentary had to cut it down, so it's not the full experience. The documentary is quite redirected about it. We, of course, were in the splash zone, so we were covered in blood and, I guess, saliva. It was like a guarra concert.

It was. So, as they screamed together, Ryan's pizza place is closed for health reasons and then he's arrested for resisting. So this seems like they're using the tools of the state to exact retribution on a private citizen. Again, might have been a funnier idea

at a different point in history than the one we're living at right now. Ella gets the program she wanted and she starts a legal aid office to help people from getting evicted. And she, and Nash is working there. Julie Kavana's working there. And she announces Nash Passer the numbers that they've

saved 9,000 people from being evicted or something like that. It was like some odd number. And I was like, this feels like a weird like information thing to just like hot off the press information. Yeah, why not like celebrate once you hit like an even

like big round number. Like yeah. Yeah. Maybe they do it every time and people are kind of sick of it. Yeah. That's possible. They're like, all right, okay. Another number. They got announced it every time. 9,001. That sounded like Dracula was vamping. Why don't we count for a while, everybody?

9,003. Has a puppet ever done this bit before? I'm the first vampire to count, right? And Julie Kavanaugh ends up with some more voiceover. She says, there's no opposite word for trauma, but hope comes close. And I was like, it made me want to take the movie's face in my hands and just go, It floats. Oh, adorable movie.

Oh, naive, sweet, sweet movie. You don't know. Yeah. And that's the story of Ella McKay, guys. That's a story of... It's a story of a simpler time when politics was hopeful and sex scandals were adorable. And skis were all over the place. A skexy sex scandal?

Well, that's why the Lord High Chamberlain didn't get the job. Sexy Skexy Skexy? That was that Beatles song. Sexy Sexy Sexy Sexy. What you done? You hit a... stone with a sword in front of everyone ooh, sexy, skexy.

And then they're like, this will make more sense later. I've been working on a song with my friend Jim Ensign. Notable cockney accent from these Liverpoolians. It's a thin line. It's a thin line. Oh, mate, I'm one of the Beatles I am. Hello, hello, hello. Hello, hello. Johnny led in here with a few little two. Yeah, El Mekay.

I'll just run up the Apple and Pairs and get me guitar. So, El Mekke. So, guys, we talked a lot about El Mekay, it feels like a movie without a center to me. There were so many times during that when I was watching it, I was like, what is this movie about? Like, what, and it's, I hate to say it because James L. Brooks in other movies has been masterful. And he's created so much that I love. But it felt like he was, it felt like one of those movies where you were like, I think this is like a simulation of a movie.

Like it doesn't feel like a real full movie, you know. Indeed. And I think, I mean, I think, yeah, I guess we're in final judgments. Yeah, we're getting into final judgments. Let me just introduce it and then we can give our summary feelings. Is this a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, or a movie we kind of like, Stuart, you're in the middle of the sense. So continue.

I was just going to say, it feels like a movie that was probably an idea or a screenplay that he'd had for a little bit. and that he felt like he wanted to make a movie, and that he wanted to inject some kind of his own perception of what we've lost in politics and try to provide some kind of a hope, some kind of a like, wasn't it better back in the day, and also, you know, get some friends together to make a movie. It doesn't work.

I think it's a bad, bad movie. But there's some weird stuff in it, like a sex scarf. and yeah I'm gonna give it a marginal when the most notable thing about the movie is that someone wears a scarf while having sex then I feel like the movie is lacking a certain substance it is notable yeah yeah

I'm gonna give it a marginal kind of like I get on letterboxed so usually on letterbox the three stars is the lowest I would give a movie that I would recommend to someone like that's the that's the yeah I like this enough that I would say yeah it's worth watching or whatever

I mean, it's the least you'll give a movie that you recommend for watching on its own. For masturbation purposes, you'll recommend any number of one star or two star movies. Yeah, yeah. But I gave this two and a half stars and a heart to indicate like, yeah, it doesn't work, but I'm sort of fond of it. Like we said before, I wish there are more movies like this. There are scenes within it that work. Like, there are people that I enjoy seeing. I have a, I wasn't mad at this movie.

Like, there was stuff in it that I enjoy. enjoyed, but like, I do wish it had any kind of center to it. Well, it doesn't seem to know what it's about. It doesn't seem to know what it's about. It's not funny and it's not, it doesn't do the things that James Al Brooks does best in his best work, which is being funny and being heartfelt in a genuinely like kind of emotional to the point of tear-jurking way. But it feels like real emotions. And it's, I want to separate my appreciation for the motives behind making a movie like this from my depreciation of the

actual movie is I wish they made more movies like this so that a movie this poor did not have to be the standard bearer for this kind of movie at this point right now. I appreciate the thinking behind it. I love so much of James L. Brooks's work, but this is, it's sometimes, sometimes a great artist tries something and it doesn't work, and this is one of those times, you know. Sometimes a great notion is not good. And sometimes a great lotion really helps your skin. Hi.

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Yeah, exactly. Since we're in sort of a fake sponsor zone, let's talk about some real sponsors. All right, let's do that. I mean, K-Lotions is not paying for this. Yeah, they aren't paying for this. But you know who is? This podcast is brought you in part by Squarespace. It's the place where you can get everything you need to offer services online, get paid online, do it all in one place with professional on-brand invoices, online payments.

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don't listen to me to say that. That's right. It's Factor. Look, we're all aware. I've talked about this before. Food, I like eating it. I need to eat it. It keeps my body alive.

And if it tastes good, so much the better. Here's the thing I don't like having to do. Preparing that food for myself. It's something I'm not good at. I don't enjoy it. But sometimes I need to do it. I'm like, there's got to be a way. There's got to be a way that I could have quality,

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And free breakfast for a year. It's the most important meal of. the day, everybody, and you can get it free for a year. This offer is only valid for new Factor customers with code and qualifying auto-renewing subscription purchase. Make healthier eating easy with Vector. We've also got a Jumbotron. This message is for Sarah last name withheld, and it is from Ben last name withheld. Happy 40th birthday, Sarah. I have been lucky enough to be your friend for more than 25 years. I love your enthusiasm. You are ruthless settlers of Catan gameplay. The laughs we have shared, your hatred of sunburns, and your obsession with bidetes. I hope your next 40 years will be filled

with 1,000s of laughs and 100s of badees. That's very sweet. Very sweet and very hygienic. So many badees. Usually you can do with, you know, one or two. I don't know. I burn mine out pretty quick. Yeah, yeah. They get overused. They put in work. Dan, can I mention some things of my own that I would like to promote? Sure, why not?

As mentioned earlier, my new comic book, Barbarian Behind Bars from Mad Cave Studios is on comic book store shelves now. I am reuniting with my maniac of New York artist Andrea Moody. And it's really cool. It's the story of a barbarian from a fantasy world who lands on earth gets thrown in jail. Nobody can speak his language. They don't know who he is. How is his public defender going to defend him?

and what happens when the mystic evils that have followed him to this world start causing chaos in the prison? So that's barbarian behind bars. I think it's really fun. I think you'll like it. It's pretty violent. So if you don't like seeing guys

getting into fights and stuff getting hurt, then you should still read it. Anyway, I've got a couple other things I'll remind you that my book, joke farming, how to write comedy and other nonsense from the University of Chicago Press is still available if you want to learn how jokes work, how to write them,

what my writing process is for writing jokes that has served me well, low these 20 years or so of professional joke writing, then pick it up. It's called joke farming. It's available everywhere that you can buy a book. I'm still writing a Harley Quinn for DC Comics. As of this recording, the issue that came out most recently,

which is issue 59, where Harley goes out on a date with her villain nemesis Althea Klang, the villainous land developer that she's been fighting, has come out. That's the most recent issue. And I'm really proud of it. I think it's my favorite issue of the run. I really love it. I'm really happy with how it came out. And I'd recommend it.

that's Harley Quinn, on store shelves now. And why not check out my other podcast, Clueless, which is a puzzle podcast through the SmartLess Network. Wait, he's so busy. Wait, wait, I just realized I have one more thing. I have one more thing. Yeah. I think my Hercules comic series, my Disney Hercules comic series,

they're releasing a collection of the first six issues. And if that sells well enough, maybe we'll be able to print the next six issues, which are written and which will complete the story started in that book. So pick it up. that you can read the end of the story eventually. I saw there was a Kickstarter for that,

but I didn't see how, how does one, like, just get the thing without being a Kickstarter funder? I think the Kickstarter was to get it going. I think it's going to be available at stores. Okay, great. Also, yeah. Hey, it's TV Chef Fantasy League.

You know, the podcast where we watch cooking competition shows, and we treat them like fantasy sports. Right now, we're getting ready for Top Chef Carolinas. We spend all year covering these competitions, but now it's time for the main event. The Apex Predator of Competitive Cooking Television Shows.

Tune in, draft a team, and play along. With your host, Sierra Cato. Mike Gableon. And if you wadiway. New episodes every week at maximum fun.org or wherever you get your podcasts. Wonderful is a podcast where we talk about things we like. That's hard to sell in a promo like this. So we've enlisted the help of piano rock superstar Billy Joel to tell you about some of the topics we've covered.

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They didn't start the podcast, except that's not true, they didn't 22. They didn't start the podcast. No, they actually did. That was in fact of them. Listen to Wonderful every Wednesday on MaximumFund.org wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks, Real Billy Joel. No problem, Griffin. Let us turn to letters from listeners. Like you, this first letter is from Graham last name withheld. Cracker. Cracker. He's never heard that one before. I have a fascination with movies that were received poorly by the public upon release,

but became classics over the years. Growing up, I had always known Jordan Carpenter's The Thing as a sci-fi horror classic, but was surprised to discover it was hated by critics and audiences when it hit cinemas in 1982. The quote official explanation is that it suffered from comparison to ET, but I personally don't buy this. Surely audiences wouldn't expect the aliens in a horror film to be friendly. Showgirls and Starship Troopers, both directed by Paul Verhoeven, were considered misogynistic and fascistic respectively on release,

but have been positively re-evaluated as satires in subsequent years. Wise is obvious now and not back in the 90s. What got me started on this train of thought was, of all things, a goofy movie. It received tepid reviews when it was released, and I myself remember watching it shortly after it came out and being unimpressed, but it has since gone on to be a beloved entry in the Disney catalog, a touching story about a father-son relationship with some excellent tunes to boot. I re-watched it recently and found myself enjoying it much more than I remember doing so as a kid.

So what films can you think of that audiences or yourselves reacted to poorly when it came out But went on to be appreciated later And why were the movies qualities not apparent to audiences from the start Keep on flopping Graham? I want to say a few things about the movies that were referenced here You hate all of them Well, I like, so the thing, I remember I feel like Ebert floated this like E.

E.T theory. I don't know that that was widely like the issue. I think that with the thing, Part of it was like critics of the time were like, you're remaking a classic. And like I like the thing from another world. But I don't think it's like an honest, say, a little movie that we can't remake. But I think that there have been fewer remakes at that time in Hollywood. They were viewed as, you know, more of like a full scourge by the critical class than like now people have just buckled under.

And they're like, I guess this is what we're getting. So if one's good, then we'll say it's good. but I think that was a large part of it maybe. I think also it was a, I mean, it is providing video nasty thrills on a big budget, you know, at a major release. And I think critics were not ready for that. And it's got a bleak ending. And it's bleak. And I think they were, I think the fact that it's bleak and dark and that it is gross, I think in a great way.

I think it's my second favorite John Carver movie, but I think it's his best movie. The, I think they just like were not tuned to it. You know, it's similar to. when Bonnie and Clyde came out and the big story was how like it got a very bad review from New York Times and Pauline Kale's first review

I think was not too good for it and then later she saw it and re-evaluated it but it was partly because the youth of America among other things like really took to it and sometimes their critics

are just not ready for something that they're not used to you know that's just they're people too well I want to say similarly with a goofy movie I think that it was looked at as like oh you know like this

TV this cheap TV animation is being released by Disney, you know. Like, it felt like there's a context it was in where, like, they were devaluing something that, you know, like, yeah, it was not as, like, fully animated as the big Disney things. But it's a pretty well done film. And it's delivering something different. It's delivering, like, a story about kind of, like, a modern teen and his dad. I mean, sure, they're, like, both dogmen, but it's, like, providing a different thing that I think over time people appreciated that.

And I think that so much of this has to do with, like, context like that. For, like, the first thing that springs to my mind in this area is the big Lebowski, which was dismissed. You know, I liked it when I first saw it. I was like, what are you guys talking about? But, like, it had a hard time. And I think part of it was it came right after Farco was that. Yeah. And people were expecting a certain thing out of the Coens.

Like, okay, well, now they're, now they're, like, making Oscar plays or whatever. You know, and it's like, no, they're making the same sort of silly stuff they've been making for a while. Well, it's, there's a, with the Cohn Brothers there, it took a long time, I think, for critics to understand that the Cone Brothers, there is a unifying feel through their movies, but it doesn't mean they just make the same kind of movie over and over again. And it was, and I think they did see Big Lobowski as like, why are these artists wasting their talent on this, on this pointless goofiness, you know? Yeah. And then when the Cone Brothers made a goofy movie, it was the same thing over again. you know that they were like why are the coan brothers wasting their time on this animated movie about goofy and his son because they think that one too but i but it all comes down to i think with audiences i think sometimes it is the way a movie i think right dance context it's sometimes the way a movie is presented and marketed if the big lovowski is presented as from the makers of fargo you're going to expect it's going to be like fargo if a movie like starship troopers is presented as a you know just an action movie uh then i think what's amazing to me is how few of the reviewers

understood the purpose of Starship Troopers and took it at face value and were like, Verhoven doesn't seem to realize he's made a pro-Nazi movie and it's like, come on guys. Oh, Verhoven did a whoopsie. Like the idea that,

also the idea that any European filmmaker of his age would not be aware of what he's doing when it comes to presenting fascist ideas in a movie is also, is also funny to me. And Neil Patrick Harrison, clearly SS-inspired gear.

Yeah. Well, let's say Hugo, boss adjacent here. But I think it's also, I will, not to excuse these critics, but I'll say, like, they're coming at it with their context too. They also are not given a lot of time

to think about the thing that they're watching. They see it. They got to write the review. And sometimes with a work of art, it takes you a little bit of time to let it sink into and to figure out what's going on. I remember when I saw,

there will be blood. An old man on the other sitting across the aisle from me, he goes, so what did you think about that? And clearly wanted to complain to somebody. And I was like, I don't know yet. He's like, you don't know. I'm like, yeah, I don't.

know. Like I just finished watching it. I don't know. And it was like, yeah, I got to think about this. This is not a movie where I'm just going to be a second later going to be like, yeah, that was a total, that was a total rocking, you know, piece of work. We're like, oh, what a snooze fest. Clearly, he had made up his mind. Sometimes it takes time and, you know, let's like, one of the other movies that I think about with this is Vertigo, which when it came out was considered kind of middling to poor Hitchcock. And it took time, I think, for people to tease out how autobiographical, the obsession stuff in it is and how deep that runs in terms of filmmaking and storytelling

and what he's doing in it. And they were instead we're like, eh, not as many thrills. It's not as suspenseful as other movies. They're just judging it by the wrong criteria, you know, I think. And sometimes it's unclear. Like, I also think about one of my big, totally wrong statements or like thoughts I had was like, I walked out of the fright. The RFK Jr. will make a great...

Yeah, yeah. The Alton Resources is whatever person. Uh-huh. No, I walked out of the frighteners and I'm like, this is going to be huge. Because, like, to me, like, it had everything. It was like, oh, you know, like laughs and thrills and it's glossy. Jeffrey Combs.

Yeah. America loves Jeffrey Combs. But, you know, but it has... It's got John Eston having sex with a mummy. People are going to love this. But it did have Michael J. Fox, who people genuinely do love. And, like, I was like, this is going to be big. And then it was a huge flop.

But it has... had, you know, it's a cult success. It's a real good movie. It's had legs, and that's partly because then, you know, like, all of Peter Jackson's stuff became notable because of, like, what he went on to do, in part because of the Frightner. Oh, what do you make? What do you do? What do he could control, he could do the sort of, like, big special effects filmmaking on a large level. But I don't know why that wasn't more of a success.

I think it's not a movie that. I mean, I loved it. I remember seeing the theaters and loving it. But while watching it, at no point was like, like, this is going to be a big hit. Because again, like, it's got a darkness to it. It's got an unpleasantness to it. Horror comedies always are always do badly. Not always.

I don't know about that, but they've got a hard. Like American Werewolf from London, for instance, was a huge hit. But also, American Whirling is a movie. It's not that funny. It's pretty much, I mean, it's okay. But it's not, it's not funny the way the Frighteners or like Shawna the Dead or Evil 2 is. But Sean of the Dead was a successful movie, you know?

Yeah. I think it's, you got a, with a horror comedy, I think you really got to, I mean, there are successful horror comedies, like, Happy Death Day was a successful movie, you know, but like you have to... But it is harder. Well, I think it's really hard, I think, because you've got to make sure the audience is aware all the time. Is this a laughing part or is this a scary part? And some of the best horror comedies, it's not super clear when you're supposed to laugh and when you're supposed to scream. And that hurts, it makes...

Like hereditary. I mean, in some ways, yeah, I like hereditary, yeah. Yeah, you laugh when that head comes off. It's funny. When Gabriel Byrne just bursts into flames And you're like, his name's burn I get it Um

Stuart, do you have anything or should I move on? I mean, I was going to say something like Prometheus, a movie that I think suffered a lot because it was presented very clearly As a direct alien prequel And it is obviously that was not Ridley Scott's intention It's far stranger It's far stranger, but I think it's a beautiful movie

That has a lot of great things in it And it's a movie that's also great. own on me over time. This second and final letter is from Justice Last Name Withheld. Who writes, Hey Peaches, this question is mainly for Elliot. Yes.

Yes. Yes. Wow. Yes. How dare you? I recently had a kid and realized I had no... Oh, guys, wait, we got to take this to Mori. I can't... I'm not admitting paternity.

I recently had a kid and realized I have no idea what the good, kid-friendly dinosaur books are that aren't 30 years out of date. Any suggestions of books or movies that your kids enjoyed and you felt were reasonably accurate or educational. Also, I really pushed for Elliott as a name, but got outvoted. Sorry. That's all right. It's a great name. Maybe next time. Too many syllables. Too many syllables, Dan. Yeah, man. What?

My tongue's exhausted by the end of that. I mean, it can't all be Dan. But your name is Daniel, right? That's two syllables. Yeah. Stuart. You got one more. Two syllables.

I got one more syllable. Yeah, one more syllable. One more fun. More syllables, more fun. That's what the old guy in the Six Flags commercials used to say, right? Uh-huh. That's a good question. I think when it comes to, like, movies that are accurate, I don't know that there are any, to be honest.

Like, we have yet to see the accurate, you know, feathered dinosaur movie of my dreams. In terms of books for kids that are accurate. Now, I got to say, I don't know, there are good books for grownups about current dinosaur science. I'll recommend, there's a podcast called Terrible Lizards that I think is family-friendly listening

that's about kind of the latest in dinosaur science, and I like that podcast a lot. But for books, yeah, I don't know. I wish I had a better answer to you. My children are not interested in dinosaurs, which pains me.

One is into sports and the other is into animals that are alive or prehistoric mammals. and I'm like, it's just one step. Why are we learning about these glypidons? Let's just move over to dinosaurs. Mammals are so cute.

I mean, they're cute, but like, look at, I mean, the prehistoric ones, there's like a big sloth and stuff like that. It's like, what are we doing? What are we doing? Yeah, I guess that's true, yeah. Yeah, I just say this as someone who, like, loves animals, but is mostly into, like, how adorable they are. I mean, that's, again, that's mostly my son's interest, too, is how adorable there, yeah. Hey, let's move on to recommendations. Movies that as much as El Mikaa might have,

it's heart in the right place. Maybe your time would be better spent elsewhere. The problem is L.M.K.'s heart is in the right place, but every other body part is totally messed up. Oh, you don't even want to know where the spleen is. Oh, boy. Oh, brother. It's in the scrotum.

That's what it's getting out. What? I want to recommend, I want to pull an Elliott and recommend a movie from the 30s. Elliot may have recommended this in the past, in fact, but I didn't check. This is Gold Diggers of 1933. It's on the Mervyn Leroy Criterion collection right now. Although it's co-directed with Busby Berkeley, who did the musical numbers. And there was a Warner's Busby Berkeley DVD set that came out years ago that this is in, too.

That's a great set. That's really good stuff in it. I had thought maybe I'd seen this movie before because I'd seen clips of the absolutely nutty musical numbers in this. But I realized I had not actually seen the whole movie. And I'd done myself a disservice because it's very funny. You know, it starts out with a lot of stuff about, you know, oh, it's the depression. Like all these shows are being shut down. These chorus goals have no work for them.

the main meat of it then ends up being like a rich son of a family played by wait who is it Dick Powell right Dick Powell Dick Powell you know gets involved with one of the chorus girls and then the brother and their lawyer show up to try and put a stop to this saying like oh you know these girls are all just gold diggers and the girls overhear this and decide to get back at these people by gold digging the fuck out of them and making them love it, love being, taking advantage of.

And it's really funny on top of all of the, all the musical numbers. And then it ends in a very sad musical number that is a weird clash of tones. So that musical number was originally going to, so this is the forgotten, remember my forgotten man number, which is an amazing musical number. And it's a beautiful song about,

a woman singing about my man went and fought in World War I and now no one's taking care of him and I need him and you need to take care of him so that I can have him and that was originally going to be in the middle of the movie because it's one of these old Broadway type musicals

where it's about a Broadway show and so the musical numbers are just productions for that show they're not the characters singing about their true feelings in real life or anything like that and this was going to be in the middle of the movie and they were like

Jesus we can't come back from this after this there's no more mood. We can't go back to the story. So they plays it at the end. What I like about it is that this is a really frothy kind of lighthearted movie throughout. It's set during the Depression, but it's really bubbly. It is about these three women. I mean, Aileen McMahon is my favorite of them.

She's so funny, yeah. Who are just going to gold dig their way through. And the way she reels in this rich guy who, I think it's a guy Kivie who plays him. And they would be in a lot of movies together. But then to end that movie, this really frothy, bubbly movie, with this very serious number, I think it's a really powerful thing to do, but it's also just an amazing number.

It's a really great movie. And Dan, if you like that one, have you ever seen the movie dames? No, but I win and I put that on my watch list right after this because I remember you talking about how much you love dames. Dames is like if Gold diggers of 1933 was even sillier, and there's no remember my forgotten man number.

It's just a, it's just a, like, it's just a really goofy movie, but the musical numbers are really fun, and it's a lot of the same ideas, you know, and some of the same cast, I believe, if I'm remembering correctly. But, yeah, I'll, I have my own recommendation, but I second Dan's recommendation,

because I love that movie, Gold Dayers 1933. I think it's great. I'm also going to recommend an older movie. This is one I saw with Dan. It was called American Cyborg Steel Warrior. This is the movie, what, one of the last releases from Canon films, is that correct?

I think it may have even been the last release. It may have even been the last. So it's one of those like Terminator Knock-Off. It's about a woman who is escorting the last living or healthy fetus in America to a boat so the boat can take it to Europe so it can be raised in the what the Eden that is Europe in this weird post-apocalyptic future. The fetus is in a tube. It's very much like something from like a day of Kojima game. And it's like it always looks like it's smiling and giving thumbs up. It's awesome.

And she is, this woman is escorted and defended by this, like, long-haired Jesus-looking warrior guy. Yeah, before the movie started, Christina gave us the detail that he played Tarzan in two unrelated Tarzan projects. Yeah. And he has so much makeup on and his like, everything is so manicured. He looks like a giga-chad meme. I love it so much. and he's fighting this nonstop killer cyborg who looks like, if they were like,

we need to make a Rob Halford cyborg. Like balding, blonde mustache, all leather, huge, it's great. Yeah. It's very, very silly. I can't recommend it enough. Yeah, it was a laugh. All right, I'm going to have to hunt that down. I haven't seen that one.

I'm going to recommend, speaking of, this relates to the question that we had earlier about movies that were kind of panned on their release and have received some appreciation later. and I recently watched the re-edited version of the Cotton Club, Francis Ford Coppola's movie, which when it came out, people were like,

this movie does not work, and it was a huge financial failure. But years later, Francis de Coppola spent his own money. He loved spending money on his movies. He spent like half a million dollars, re-editing the movie. God bless him for having the confidence in his own stuff.

I mean, he's not going to do it again, I don't think. I think, I think Megaloplas has closed the door on his self-financing dreams. again, but he re-edited it into a movie called The Cotton Club Encore, and that's available on Tobey right now, and it still doesn't totally work, but there's a lot of really good stuff in it. It's about the Cotton Club in Harlem and about the performers there. This was the club where it was

all black performers, but black people were not allowed to attend the club, only white people were. And it was run by gangsters because all the clubs were run by gangsters. And the movie is about the performers and the gangsters. Unfortunately, it spends more time on the gangster, who are kind of less interesting. And Francis Ford Coppola, I don't know if you guys know this, already made the definitive movie about gangsters.

Oh. So I don't know that he needed to do more gangster stuff. There's some okay stuff in it. But the stuff with the performers is really good. There's a bunch of really great musical performances in it

and dance performances. Gregory Hines is in it with his brother, Mori Tines, and they do a number of dance routines that are really fantastic. And at the end of the movie, the world that's being created on stage,

and the real world outside the theater start to merge in a really fun way. And it's almost like the end of the movie you're like, oh, they finally figured out what this movie should have been. They cracked it. But up until that point, there's still a lot of good stuff in it.

And so I think it's an imperfect movie. It still doesn't fully, totally work, but it looks beautiful. The musical performances and the dance performances are great. And there's a lot of good scenes in it. So I'd recommend the Cotton Club Encore, which again, it's on To Be right now.

You don't even have to pay a dime to see this thing. Not a dime. And brother, could you spare one? I kept thinking that was... I kept thinking that was the song that they were going to play. I don't know why, but it turned out to be a more specific song about, you know... That wasn't the song.

Veterans. So is that your note for the movie? Why didn't you do this song? Yeah. I just wanted to... But change it. Can you spare a dame? I just wanted to end our episode on an afflating note.

Yeah, that's true. I mean, we're in the money. Is that that that's this is the Golder goes 933 is the one where if you've ever seen the footage of Ginger Rogers singing we're in the money

in pig Latin she does a whole verse Okay yeah or if you've seen the silhouettes of naked ladies because this is a pre-code movie that's from the Petin in the Park

number yeah I mean this which also includes Billy Barty as a horny baby essentially runs around and gets chased by roller skating

police officers at one point He does this kind of this. It's either in dames or footlight parade. There's a number called honeymoon hotel where a couple is getting into the hotel room to have sex. And then Billy Barty kind of like scrambles out from under the bed and the husband throws an ash tray at him and he runs away. Wow. Oh, no, it's in Footlight Parade that he's a cat. There's a number where he's a little kitten.

But there's a Billy Barty, he was like a kid at the time, I think, or very young. And it's just like he just, they just would throw him in there to just getting into trouble, you know. Long career, long career. I was like, man, he was in Willow and he was in gold diggers of 1933. Yeah. Well, with that appreciation of Billy Barty out of the way, our traditional way of, of course, ending the podcast, I'd like to say thank you to our network, Maximum Fun. Go to Maximumfund.org for other great podcasts of all kinds. And thank you to Alex Smith, our producer who makes us sound good and also does his own wonderful creative stuff under the

name Howell Dottie. Look him up on the internet. For this episode, The Flap House, I have been Dan McCoy. I'm Stuart Wellington. I'm Elliot K. Are we not doing the bit from... Can we trust him? You guys got really cool all of a sudden.

You ready? Yeah. Yeah, fuck it. Fuck it. Let's do it live. Who cares? Yeah. All right.

On this episode, we discuss Ella McKay. Boy do we ever. Guys, what was this movie about? Ah, yeesh. Nooners? Actually, you know, I've got an idea. I've got an idea. Hold on. I got another one.

Okay. On this episode, we discuss Ella McKay. The movie that says, this is the story about a young woman who, hey, what's that over there? What? Maybe I'll talk about that. No, what's that thing? Hold on. Maximum Fun.

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